In this episode we explore the twin complaints that plague automotive workshops: "I don't get good information" and "I don't get enough time." Andrew reveals why these complaints are interconnected and introduces the Quality Information Model (QUIM) - a three-part framework that transforms communication between customers, service advisors, and technicians. The discussion covers why technicians speak "technical" while customers speak "non-technical," creating a translation gap that leads to frustration on all sides.

Andrew shares practical solutions including pre-booking questionnaires with menu-style options that help customers describe problems accurately, and explains why these complaints often mask deeper fears about making mistakes or disappointing customers. The episode emphasizes shared responsibility - workshop success requires professionalism from management, service advisors, and technicians working together.

Andrew has a variety of free downloads and tools you can grab.

Discover if your workshop is Retention Worthy© here or visit his website, https://www.solutionsculture.com where the focus is on bringing reliable profitability to automotive workshop owners and workshop management through the Retention, Engagement and Development of their Technical Professionals.

Production:

This podcast was produced by 'Podcasts Done for You' https://podcastsdoneforyou.com.au.

Workshop Communication crisis.

2

How Poor Leadership Training

costs $1 million plus per year.

3

Join passionate automotive trainer and

coach Andrew Uglow as he exposes the

4

hidden cost of promoting technicians

without leadership training.

5

In this episode, you'll learn why the

automotive industry loses over $1 million

6

annually per dealership to staff turnover.

7

Discover the critical gap between

technical skill and people

8

management and understand how proper.

9

Perform and training could

transform your workshop culture.

10

Along the way, you'll hear stories

including shocking data from KPMG's

11

research on metropolitan dealership

losses, and why the best technical minds

12

often make the worst people managers

unless they're properly developed.

13

I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl, and this

is the Frictionless Workshop podcast.

14

Let's get cranking

15

Andrew.

16

We should get on too.

17

The toll topic of whether there is

enough information that is given to

18

service advisors or not, or whether

they're just getting crap information.

19

As you directed me before when we

were just talking about this before

20

we started recording the program.

21

It's really interesting area of the

right information and communication

22

is such a critical element.

23

And it can go astray really quickly and

they don't get the right information.

24

It can just feel like you're

up against it in what you're

25

trying to deliver in your job.

26

I'm sure we've

27

Andrew Uglow: spoken about this

in the past and I'd like to do

28

this particular complaint with its

identical twin and it's identical

29

twin is, I don't get enough time.

30

I don't get enough time.

31

You know, they expect, they

expect all of this to happen in

32

a really short space of time.

33

I don't get enough time.

34

And if I was to, you know, rank

which complaints I get most

35

frequently, it would be these two.

36

I either get really poor information,

suboptimal information, crap information,

37

or I don't get enough time to do the job.

38

And I, I point to your experience that

you spoke about in the previous episode

39

where you brought your car in, you

waited for it, and they go, ah, look,

40

sorry, we, we, we didn't get enough time.

41

Well, um.

42

The, the poor technician on the

end of that, like, you dunno

43

what's happened for the business.

44

They might've had someone out at training.

45

They might've had someone call in sick.

46

They might have had someone

have a rostered sick day off.

47

You know, it might've been warm and sunny.

48

So they walked down the beach.

49

I don't know.

50

But the net result was, here's this

technician, and they're, they're

51

like drinking from the fire hose.

52

They're trying to get through all

this work, and they just simply can't.

53

And so they didn't have

enough time to do it properly.

54

And I go back to, in your example,

I go back to the idea that well let,

55

let's go and review how that happened

in the business, because there's gonna

56

be a couple of things that got missed.

57

You go back to, well, you know, I've

only got certain number of techs.

58

I've only got certain number of time

I can do, you know, I've got, we talk

59

about workshop loading, the type of

work that I'll, I'll permit, you know,

60

this amount of warranty, this amount

of retail, this amount of internal,

61

all those sorts of things that, that

come into play around the background,

62

around how that happened for you.

63

But at the same time, it

shouldn't, shouldn't happen.

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That's not good customer service.

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And I go back to the idea of time.

66

Which I'm gonna go.

67

Time and information are directly linked.

68

They are, like I said,

they are identical twins.

69

And so, um, these, these are kind of

halves of the same face of the coin,

70

you know, I don't get good information.

71

Yep.

72

Okay.

73

So, and like we've said this before, I'm

sure, but let me call it out directly.

74

The quality of information that the

technician gets is directly proportional

75

to the speed and accuracy of their repair.

76

Okay, so the quality, not the volume,

but the quality of information that the

77

technician gets is directly proportional

to the speed and accuracy of their repair.

78

And if they don't get quality

information, well, their first

79

step is to go and get it.

80

Because how do you fix anything?

81

Anything

82

Anthony Perl: if you don't

have quality information?

83

I'll give you part two of my

story, Andrew, because it's

84

going to add value to this.

85

So.

86

They fixed.

87

As I said in the previous episode,

they fixed the issue fairly

88

quickly when they got onto it.

89

I was still at the dealership for

maybe about three hours before they,

90

my car was obviously in the line of

things and they fixed that problem.

91

Then they said at the end of

it, oh, by the way, you also

92

need new brakes, new brake pads.

93

I said, great.

94

I said, we have to order them in.

95

Okay, great.

96

Order them in.

97

I said, that should be four or five days.

98

Fantastic.

99

I waited.

100

And I heard nothing and rang up and they

said, oh, well we didn't order that.

101

And so then they proceeded to order it in.

102

They did tell me as as well at the time

that it was getting close to being.

103

You know, you really should get them

done as opposed to as a, well, I'll

104

get it done in the next six months.

105

And I do a lot of freeway driving, so

I'm like, okay, let's get that done.

106

Anyway, they bring it in and I had said

to them, they were obviously aware of

107

what had happened before, and I said,

I'm going to wait for this to be done.

108

And that was where the information clearly

went to the technician and saying, all

109

that needs to be done is this and this.

110

It needs to be done quickly.

111

I was in and outta that dealership in

about an hour, and I prepared to be there

112

for, for another three or four hours

because of the previous experiences.

113

But clearly the information that was

given to that technician at the time

114

was, we need to do this quickly.

115

This is all that needs to be done.

116

Let's get it happening, and I was

in and out and that was fantastic.

117

That was a great experience because

I actually was prepared to lose half

118

a day and I got half a day back of

things that I could be doing, which was

119

Andrew Uglow: under

promised and over delivered.

120

So and, and I go back to.

121

I go back to, there's two

different skills, isn't there?

122

There's two different, two different

elements that we're talking about.

123

One is fixing the car and like I point

to like maybe not every technician,

124

'cause there's always special people, we

know this, but by far the vast majority

125

of technicians want to do a good job.

126

They take pride in their work.

127

They, they genuinely want to perform.

128

They get a thrill out of doing well.

129

Like it's, it's personal to them.

130

And versus the quote

unquote fixing the customer.

131

And there are certainly

some jobs that we hate.

132

In the industry as having wake jobs

and anything that is weird, like check

133

engine lights, all that sort of stuff.

134

We've got no idea what it's,

it's like this fog that you walk

135

into and all we know and we talk

about the quality of information.

136

All we know is that there's a light on.

137

What does that mean?

138

Well, that could be anything.

139

Like most cars today and even

cars in the last five, 10 years,

140

there's 10,000 different DTCs that

will bring up a check engine line.

141

So, which.

142

Or we know as the cars alike, we don't

know which one of those 10,000 might need

143

to be looking at until I get onto the car.

144

So doing that as a wait

job is problematic.

145

So coming back to the idea of information,

there's a whole variety of different

146

reasons why techs don't get good

information from service advisors.

147

And

148

I, I, I don't wanna throw service

advisors under the bus 'cause

149

they do a really hard job.

150

And again, like just about

everyone in the automotive in

151

workshops is the meat and sandwich.

152

You know, that there's, there's

two things pulling in opposite

153

directions for each of them.

154

And they get stuff from this direction.

155

They get stuff from

that direction as well.

156

So it's, it's no one's, no one's

living the life of Riley, can I say?

157

You know, but one of the big

challenges for the technician

158

is technicians speak technical.

159

They think technical, they perceive

the world through technical lenses,

160

and the service advisors just don't,

and the customers certainly don't.

161

The customers don't even have the

words to use my car's doing something.

162

It's, you know, and they come up with

whatever phrase they've, they've Googled

163

and they're using language that may or

may not be correct, valid, accurate.

164

It can have an entirely different

meaning in the language of technical

165

versus the language of p technical.

166

Anthony Perl: You know, it was almost

easier in the days before Google was

167

so commonly available, wasn't it, when

they just rolled up to the dealership

168

and said, I dunno what's going on.

169

It's broken.

170

Andrew Uglow: It's wrong.

171

Something's wrong.

172

Yeah.

173

Um, one of the best questions, I'm sure

we've mentioned this before, one of the

174

best questions that service advisors can

ask any customer is, is it doing it now?

175

Yes.

176

Okay.

177

It's doing it now.

178

Great.

179

Show me, or let me get one of my

technical gurus and you can show them

180

because service advisors are crazy time

poor, so not being technically skilled.

181

And so as a consequence of this.

182

We have two possibilities.

183

Either what's said isn't what's

meant, or we end up with Chinese

184

whispers, something got rephrased.

185

And so we talk about service advisors,

capturing the customer's verbatim.

186

I love that word, the verbatim.

187

What a beautiful corporate generalization.

188

We want to use the same words

the customer said verbatim.

189

And that's really important.

190

And at the same time, that's also

sometimes profoundly unuseful.

191

And I go back to the fact that quality

information or valid information

192

has three parts, and I think service

advisors haven't been taught this.

193

Technicians.

194

This is a revelation for technicians.

195

When I teach this as part of

their diagnostic classes and our

196

Resourceful technician formula.

197

We talk about the quality

information model.

198

The quim and quality

information is always explicit.

199

Don't gimme vague generalizations.

200

Oh, my car's funky.

201

Oh, is it?

202

Well, good for you.

203

That's exciting.

204

You know.

205

Just what is, what is funky?

206

You know, it, it, it busts

a move on a dance floor.

207

Like, what, what is that?

208

You know?

209

So, so quality information

is always explicit.

210

Always explicit detail and explicit.

211

The second part is that it's being tested.

212

So when you say stalling, you mean

the engine cuts out completely?

213

Oh, no.

214

It just moves up and down

and up and down and up.

215

Oh, okay.

216

So it's surging or hunting?

217

It's not stalling.

218

You tell me it's stalling.

219

I'm testing a whole different

world of things to something

220

that's hunting and surging.

221

'cause they have different meanings

in technical versus in non-technical.

222

It just drives weird.

223

It doesn't feel right.

224

It looks like it's going to stall.

225

And so as a service advisor, my role is

to test that what you mean as a customer.

226

And what I understand are in fact the same

thing because we're chasing the meaning

227

as much as we're chasing the words.

228

I need the words, but I,

I need the meaning more.

229

And so quality information,

explicit and specific, tested.

230

And the third part is, is usable.

231

Don't say noise in car.

232

We talk about this one all the time.

233

Noise in car.

234

Well, okay.

235

That's no good.

236

Do you like a hug?

237

That must be really hard for you.

238

Like.

239

Can I buy you some earbuds?

240

Can we do something about getting

a better stereo in your car?

241

You know, like what?

242

What is that?

243

So you're in this expensive

mechanical device.

244

Anthony Perl: It's the child in

the, in the child in the backseat.

245

Would you mind taking

them for a few weeks?

246

Andrew Uglow: There you go.

247

Look, we've had all the proverbial,

like there was an ad years ago on

248

TV for Volkswagen, and this guy's

driving his car and he's trying to.

249

Open and close the glove box and

doing all this sort of stuff because

250

there's this, this noise he can hear.

251

He pulls over to this old mechanic

and the old mechanic gets into the

252

car and listens, comes back and he

lubricates the girlfriend who's sleeping.

253

Their earring was squeaking,

you know, and it was all about

254

the quality of Volkswagen.

255

And Volkswagen are awesome.

256

Ask anyone who works for Volkswagen

and they'll, they, they might

257

tell you that maybe, I don't know.

258

Um.

259

But this, this was the point that, that

we go back to the quality of information.

260

What, what are we actually dealing with?

261

Is the information that

you give me usable?

262

Is it functional?

263

So if you go, well, noise in car when

turning left or noise in car over speed,

264

humps or noise in car on wet roads.

265

Oh, okay.

266

That's now a whole lot more

useful for me than, okay.

267

I've got a large, expensive

mechanical device that moves over

268

on even surfaces that has a large,

expensive mechanical device driving

269

it, whether that's mechanical or

electrical, and it's making some noise.

270

Well, okay.

271

Anthony Perl: It's, Hey, everyone just

interrupting for a moment to remind you

272

that the Frictionless Workshop Podcast

is brought to you by Solutions Culture.

273

For details on how to get in touch

with Andrew, consult the show notes

274

and don't forget to subscribe so you

don't miss an episode of the podcast.

275

Now, back to the show for Life.

276

It happens sometimes.

277

I'm not quite sure when it's

not happening right now, but it

278

happened the other day, right?

279

Okay, that, that should be useful perhaps.

280

Andrew Uglow: And, and this is where

we have for customer facing staff, the

281

same skills or type of skill shortage

that we have for technical people.

282

And so just like it's hard to find good

technical people, it's also hard to find

283

good customer facing people because.

284

Like, there's a lot of money

at play with cars, right?

285

And so some customers get very

upset because there's a lot of

286

money, there's a lot at stake.

287

No one wants to spend more money.

288

I don't know of any customer ever who

woke up in the morning and goes, I can't

289

wait to take my car into the dealership,

pay an enormous bill for something.

290

I've got no idea what they actually did.

291

I, this is so exciting.

292

You know, I've got all this spare money.

293

I think I'll invest it on, oh,

who knows what at a dealership.

294

Like no one says that.

295

And so there's a variety of

problematic elements in this, but.

296

Why aren't we getting good information?

297

Well, is it fear of customers?

298

Is it fear of angry customers?

299

Is it a lack of skill at

the service department?

300

Is it time because

they're crazy time poor?

301

Are we not booking our work correctly?

302

You know, are we not booking

our customers correctly?

303

One of the things that I find a

lot of businesses aren't doing

304

is rebooking their customers.

305

So if we go, ah, Anthony, thanks so

much for bringing a car in on Day x.

306

Day y.

307

Super excited to take

care of your car for you.

308

Was there anything else

you want us to look at?

309

If you click here for

yes, click here for no.

310

And if you click yes, it takes you

to a, there's a thousand different

311

things that it could take you to.

312

But let's just go.

313

Minimum viable product takes you to

a, a Google spreadsheet and it says,

314

oh, Anthony, what's your problem?

315

And you describe the problem and you

go, when does that problem happen?

316

Well, this, this, and I can give

you, I, I love a menu, Anthony.

317

You know when I go to KFC and they

go, hi, can I take your order, please?

318

I go, can I have two or beef patties,

special sauce lettuce, cheese, B.

319

The, the, I don't know

if you've tried this.

320

I, I have.

321

And you're gonna go, Andrew.

322

Really?

323

I've got Yeah.

324

Idea.

325

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

326

Like a lot of my bad ideas,

they started out as good ideas.

327

I just wanna stir the person

and there's this silence on the

328

other end of the, the, the thing.

329

We don't sell that it's not on

our menu, and I'm just gone.

330

Thank you.

331

And I go back to the idea of

offering the customer a menu.

332

Having them chew stuff.

333

They don't have the language,

they don't have the technical

334

acumen, or give them a selection.

335

Would you like fries?

336

Would you like wedges?

337

Would you like this?

338

Would you like that?

339

Is it hot?

340

Is it cold?

341

Is it we?

342

Is it dry?

343

Is it all the time?

344

Is it sometimes?

345

Is it at startup?

346

Is it first 15 minutes?

347

Does it last 15 minutes?

348

Does it only happen after a third?

349

Like give them a menu, have

them go, yes, no, yes, no.

350

Yes, you can capture this in a sheet.

351

And now I've quote unquote, got

the customer's verbatim and I can

352

hand that off to the technician and

it was a Google spreadsheet and a

353

link like, how long does it take?

354

Realistically, how long?

355

I can send them A-P-D-F-I, I

can send 'em a thousand survey.

356

There's a million different

programs that can do this.

357

Why aren't I doing that on the front end?

358

So that'll save time in the dealership.

359

That'll get what you are trying

to convey, because now you've

360

got time to think about it.

361

You're not standing there rushed, ah,

you know, I've gotta get the train,

362

I've gotta do this, I've gotta do that.

363

I've got all these other things.

364

I'm like, well, you do it when you

got a chance to think about it.

365

So we love menus.

366

The flip side of I don't get enough

information and I don't get enough time.

367

Well, looking at the time chunk

again, if we're gonna test this

368

well, how are we measuring the

job, the time that I'm allocated?

369

Is that valid?

370

Is that what it really takes, or am

I trying to speed things up and push?

371

What about the skill of the tech?

372

And I go back to is it a matter

of skill or is it a matter of

373

resourcefulness we are dealing with here?

374

And resourcefulness isn't on

automotive radar, it just isn't.

375

We use the vague generalization

of experience and it's a

376

thing, but it's incomplete.

377

It's actually a resource on us.

378

What about the physical environment?

379

You know, does the tech have to spend 20

minutes shuffling cars to get the car out?

380

Now they're 20 minutes behind their

time because our facilities are choked

381

with cars or, you know, customer

parked or the tow truck dropped

382

off a car or something like that.

383

And now the tech's pulling their

hair out, trying to meet a time.

384

And all of these factors were

outside of their control.

385

What about the cultural environment?

386

You know, what's that?

387

Because you take a good person,

put 'em in a toxic environment

388

that they can't perform, they

can't, it's just not possible.

389

Whereas you, you take an average

tech and put 'em into a good

390

environment, they'll perform.

391

They will.

392

So what, what about the

environment we've created?

393

And it's interesting when you start

to talk about technicians, you

394

know, this whole idea of I get crap

information, and this whole idea

395

of they don't gimme enough time.

396

What's actually behind those complaints?

397

And it's fear of screwing up.

398

Like there's a genuine fear

of doing the wrong thing.

399

I don't wanna upset the customer.

400

I don't wanna cause

problems in the business.

401

I don't wanna cost the business money.

402

I don't want the shame of my peers

in the workshop thinking I'm a peanut

403

because I made a stupid mistake.

404

I don't want the social

consequences of failure.

405

I don't want all these other

things, and it gets expressed.

406

That's what's happening for them,

for the most part that I can tell.

407

It gets expressed as I don't get enough

information, which may or may not be true.

408

Or conversely, I don't get enough time.

409

And that could be a skill problem.

410

That

411

Anthony Perl: could be

actually a time problem.

412

Well, it could be

uncertainty, couldn't it?

413

You know, of your own work and

saying, well, I feel like I

414

think I've done the right thing.

415

I've gotta go double check it.

416

And that takes extra time.

417

Right.

418

And that is all because of

perception of their own ability.

419

They may actually be spot on 99% of

the time, but they're still going back.

420

For sure.

421

Yeah.

422

It can be a good thing and it can be a

bad thing, and it's how you manage that

423

and communicate that as as a business,

which is gonna make a real impact.

424

Yeah.

425

And so I wanna ask for

426

Andrew Uglow: these two things, you know,

not enough time as a tech and not enough

427

or not good information, poor information.

428

The test that I wanna ask is,

where's professionalism in this?

429

If we're gonna be professionals, right?

430

Like I'm being paid to show up.

431

So that means if I'm taking the money,

that makes me a professional, if I'm

432

doing it out of my own free will, 'cause

I've got nothing else to do with my time.

433

I'm a volunteer, different level

of expectation for volunteers.

434

But because I'm being paid here,

the expectation is professionalism.

435

And so where is professionalism in this?

436

And I go back to professionalism

in workshop management.

437

Better workshop leadership here.

438

Am I giving my service

advisors enough time?

439

Am I coaching my customers?

440

Am I training my customers

on adding good customers?

441

You know, because that's part of my

responsibility as a service manager,

442

and I know that sounds really

manipulative, but I'm gonna go, no.

443

It's actually, if I've got good customers,

I can serve good customers better.

444

You know, I can be more productive, I can

be more efficient, I can add more value

445

because the customer's a good customer.

446

You know, so let's coach our

customers to be good customers.

447

Let's coach our front customer

facing team to lead customers

448

rather than just serve customers.

449

'cause they're two different things.

450

Where's professionalism

for the technician?

451

Where's quote unquote

development for the technician?

452

Gosh, where's development

for the service manager?

453

You know, like.

454

I, I, I keep coming

back to this same piece.

455

And again, you know, what's that saying?

456

When, when all you have is a hammer,

all the world looks like a nail.

457

Right?

458

Prove.

459

But it's a gap.

460

It's something that we don't do.

461

We do bits of, but we just, we miss

there's some, not just some gaps.

462

There's some absolute gaping holes in

what we do, and it's, it's hurting us.

463

It's hurting customers.

464

It's hurting profitability,

it's hurting reputations.

465

It's a big deal.

466

So, you know, not enough time.

467

Mm.

468

Well, let's go and test for that.

469

When you say not enough time, how

do you mean and crap information?

470

Well, we can test that.

471

We use the quality information model.

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Is it explicit?

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Have you tested that?

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What you think it means is what the

customer meant and is this information

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useful or is it just, I don't know,

an emotional unload because emotional

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unload isn't gonna help me fix the car.

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It's just not useful.

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Like by all means, work with

the customer emotionally because

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it's a stress, it's a thing.

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Do that.

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Anthony Perl: What's interesting

in this day and age where we have

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so much technology available to

us, that old idea of let's go back

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and check the tapes sometimes.

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That's actually a really interesting

thing to do because I'd swore they

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didn't say this, they didn't do this.

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'cause it could be just a listening

thing and not, and the information was

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actually there, but they actually just

didn't take it in in the right way.

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Maybe they didn't read it the right way.

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Yeah,

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Andrew Uglow: for sure.

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Um, you know, or, or they

were stressed and they've just

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done a skim and they, they.

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Skimmed it.

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They didn't read it, and that's the thing.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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I think it is really an important

thing for the technicians to understand

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that there's some self-examination

that needs to happen in this process.

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It's never one thing.

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Gosh, if it was one thing, we would've

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Andrew Uglow: fixed it decades ago.

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It's usually a complex compound

thing and shared responsibility,

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Anthony Perl: and there you have it,

the staggering cost of leadership

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gaps in automotive workshops.

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But we're not done yet.

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In this series, we are tackling

the ultimate complaint that

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underpins everything We've

discussed the breakdown of shared

507

responsibility between technicians.

508

And management.

509

Andrew Explores why Workshop success

requires both technical excellence

510

and emotional intelligence and

shares how to create accountability

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without blame will reveal why the

US versus them mentality is killing

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your profitability and how to build a

truly collaborative workshop culture.

513

Shared responsibility drops in a

couple of weeks, so make sure you're

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subscribed so you never miss an episode.

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This is the Frictionless

Workshop Podcast produced by.

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Podcast done for you online.

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All details in the show notes.