Trish: 00:00:00

Today I am joined by Sherry Stamps, the founder of Navigating Parenthood and a mom of six y'all.

Trish: 00:00:06

She has six.

Trish: 00:00:07

I have seven, so you know, I'm already happy.

Trish: 00:00:09

Many of whom of her children are Neurodivergent and Sheri has spent over 10 years helping families transition through pregnancy into early parenting with evidence-based information.

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She is a postpartum educator, a doula, a craniosacral therapist, a breastfeeding specialist, a baby lid.

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sleep and wellbeing expert just to name a few.

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So join us as we talk about all the things.

Trish: 00:00:35

Good morning everyone.

Trish: 00:00:37

So Sherry and I are going to be talking about some different.

Trish: 00:00:43

Topics then we've talked about here on Labor Nurse Mama, and I'm super excited.

Trish: 00:00:48

So Sherry and I were having like a little bit of a confusing conversation.

Trish: 00:00:51

Number one, I went to the fair last night.

Trish: 00:00:53

We took Grayson and we were up way too late and it was hot.

Trish: 00:00:57

It was so hot.

Trish: 00:00:58

I don't function in that.

Trish: 00:00:59

We had like a heat advisory and then of course I was having some technical difficulties.

Trish: 00:01:04

But I'm so excited to have Sherry with us and Sherry does something a little unusual that I'm gonna let her explain.

Trish: 00:01:12

But she helps parents navigating parenthood like whether you're prepping before you have baby or after.

Trish: 00:01:19

So I'm gonna go ahead and let Sherry introduce herself.

Shari: 00:01:23

Thank you so much.

Shari: 00:01:24

I'm so excited to be on this podcast.

Shari: 00:01:26

I've been following you on Instagram and so.

Shari: 00:01:29

I'm, I'm just really excited to talk about this topic and my brain is completely losing words on things to say other than excited, but I am excited to be here.

Trish: 00:01:39

That's okay.

Trish: 00:01:39

We'll just be brain dead together.

Trish: 00:01:41

Yeah.

Trish: 00:01:42

Yeah.

Shari: 00:01:42

Uh, motherhood.

Trish: 00:01:44

Joy.

Trish: 00:01:44

Joy.

Shari: 00:01:45

Yeah.

Shari: 00:01:45

I, I like to say, so I have a 1-year-old who I'm breastfeeding, so I say I'm still, I'm postpartum, but I'm also perimenopausal.

Shari: 00:01:52

So, you know, it's like this fun.

Shari: 00:01:54

Oh my God.

Shari: 00:01:57

But

Trish: 00:01:58

I'm perimenopausal, right?

Trish: 00:02:00

Perimenopausal, and I can't imagine.

Trish: 00:02:03

I can't, I can't.

Trish: 00:02:05

It's because perimenopause on its own is so.

Trish: 00:02:09

Freaking hard.

Trish: 00:02:11

Yes.

Trish: 00:02:12

So hard.

Trish: 00:02:13

So that's fun.

Shari: 00:02:14

But I, I'm basically, I'm an integrative wellness practitioner for moms, and I say their little ones, because I'll see toddlers and, you know, older siblings, kids up to like 14.

Shari: 00:02:25

But I really do, as you said, like to focus on preparing families before they give birth.

Shari: 00:02:31

Let's talk about your postpartum plan in advance.

Shari: 00:02:34

Let's talk about your breastfeeding plan in advance.

Shari: 00:02:37

Let's see you for a cranial sacral therapy visit in person to work on your emotions that are affecting your baby and your baby's stress levels, and how they're going to feed after you give birth based on your stress.

Shari: 00:02:50

Believe it or not.

Shari: 00:02:51

Based on, yeah, your lived trauma and the trauma that you didn't, don't even realize is in you from your, you know, your grandmother or, you know, whatever.

Shari: 00:03:01

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:03:01

Has been passed down and is now at a cellular level, a part of you and now about to be a part of your baby.

Shari: 00:03:08

And let's release that so we can improve function in your body, because your microbiome affects your baby's microbiome.

Shari: 00:03:16

And your pelvis and, and the alignment and everything there affects baby's positioning.

Shari: 00:03:21

It affects their head shape, it affects their feeding, you know, if they're gonna have torticollis, all these things.

Shari: 00:03:26

So we wanna work on this Yeah.

Shari: 00:03:28

Before you give birth as if you needed more things to think about.

Shari: 00:03:31

Yeah.

Shari: 00:03:32

But this is the quiet before the storm, so to speak, because once baby's there, you know, it's so hard when you're in the thick of it to be like, now let me pull up research on this and let me find these resources.

Shari: 00:03:42

You know, where can I find an expert in X, y, Z that I don't, you know, you don't know what you don't know, so it's hard to even try to find the help that you need when you don't know what you need.

Shari: 00:03:51

But it's, it's difficult.

Shari: 00:03:52

So it's, planning before is just so important, and I love that, you know, your, your birth prep course goes into like, so much of this in being your own advocate and really understanding the process.

Shari: 00:04:09

And I think what I do kind of plays into that you need, these are more things that will prepare you for your, self-empowered birth and really being present with your baby when they're born.

Trish: 00:04:21

Yeah, I love that so much.

Trish: 00:04:22

And it's like so much that I don't think a lot of people know about.

Trish: 00:04:27

So I would love to dive in deeper like we were talking about.

Trish: 00:04:32

And I'm just gonna let you kind of take away and.

Trish: 00:04:36

Let's talk about some of those, like really nitty gritty specifics.

Shari: 00:04:41

Okay.

Shari: 00:04:41

So where should we start?

Trish: 00:04:45

So you, so you tell me because I feel like I, I feel like I have a million questions, but I feel like I'll get everybody really confused.

Trish: 00:04:53

But I love what you're saying about like, I, I mean, I feel like I got off track just even thinking about the trauma releasing the trauma.

Shari: 00:05:02

Yes.

Shari: 00:05:02

I mean, that's a whole, we could go on a whole tangent about that because not only Yeah.

Shari: 00:05:08

Do we have everything that we've kind of tried to forget people told you to get over it.

Shari: 00:05:14

You know, now we have some great sayings about you grow through it.

Shari: 00:05:17

Um.

Shari: 00:05:18

You know, it is a part of you, but then it's also, there's a whole journey you have to go on of like, okay, what am I able to let go?

Shari: 00:05:24

Is it something I'm willing to let go or not?

Shari: 00:05:28

And is it okay to hold onto it because I say it makes me, me?

Shari: 00:05:31

Or is it something that maybe is creating these patterns?

Shari: 00:05:35

Like we, you know, we talk about how we maybe fall into the same relationships or have like the same kind of like, I personally have a Starbucks addiction that's really bad and I created it, when I was overwhelmed.

Shari: 00:05:46

Yeah.

Shari: 00:05:46

As my kids, you know, they have those mommy wine memes or they used to several years ago.

Shari: 00:05:51

And it had an idea.

Shari: 00:05:52

Yeah.

Shari: 00:05:52

They're not as

Trish: 00:05:53

popular as they were like four or five years ago.

Trish: 00:05:55

Oh

Shari: 00:05:55

yeah.

Shari: 00:05:56

Because people start realizing, Hmm, maybe we shouldn't say like, yes, we all go home and just drink, you know, to get over, you know?

Shari: 00:06:02

But I was,

Shari: 00:06:03

yeah.

Shari: 00:06:03

I'm neurodivergent and I have neurodivergent children.

Shari: 00:06:06

And I think at the time, my youngest at the time was two and we were diagnosing with autism.

Shari: 00:06:13

And then I had another newborn and I started, like, I used, found comfort in my Starbucks drink and I started going from one to two a day.

Shari: 00:06:22

You know, it's like, I didn't drink wine Yeah.

Shari: 00:06:23

Didn't do other stuff, but I had my Starbucks fix.

Shari: 00:06:26

And that's an just an example of like, okay, we're going into this pattern.

Shari: 00:06:30

And you know, find out, okay, why do you have this pattern?

Shari: 00:06:33

And anyway, so we all have these things from something or another.

Shari: 00:06:37

And babies when they're born, you know, this emotional stuff creates physical things in each of us.

Shari: 00:06:45

And for babies, this is something we don't think of that this emotional trauma from birth or what is already just.

Shari: 00:06:54

Within them as they're developing.

Shari: 00:06:56

Or let's say you are nervous about having a baby, it's, unplanned pregnancy.

Shari: 00:07:01

Or maybe you have gender disappointment.

Trish: 00:07:04

Yeah,

Shari: 00:07:05

I think it's great to have your gender be a surprise, but I also think if you're hoping for a certain gender, it's nice to know in advance so that you can work through that gender disappointment before you're facing your baby eye to eye, you know, and working through it.

Shari: 00:07:17

Yeah.

Shari: 00:07:17

And then that turns into something else.

Shari: 00:07:19

But your baby's feeling all of that, that whole time.

Shari: 00:07:21

Right?

Shari: 00:07:22

Right.

Shari: 00:07:23

So they're feeling like, oh, I'm unwanted, or the high cortisol.

Shari: 00:07:27

And then they can get into what's called the fear paralysis reflex, which makes it hard to integrate other reflexes.

Shari: 00:07:34

So then it affects feeding when they're born because maybe they don't have that suck reflex because they're stuck in fear paralysis because of stress.

Shari: 00:07:41

Yeah.

Shari: 00:07:42

Or you know, positioning and other things all of it goes together and it's a mishmash of things.

Shari: 00:07:48

And that's why as a somebody who does infant specific cranial sacral therapy as well as, you know, adults, it's, I try to explain to people, you know, healing's not linear, right?

Shari: 00:07:58

So I think of it as like, untying a necklace.

Shari: 00:08:01

I see a baby.

Shari: 00:08:01

They're like, well, how long, how many visits do you think they need?

Shari: 00:08:04

How long until this is straightened?

Shari: 00:08:05

I'm like, well.

Shari: 00:08:06

I am, I'm working on this tension or this pattern, right?

Shari: 00:08:11

And we're trying to get them out of this pattern, this loop that they've created.

Shari: 00:08:16

This, like my loop of going to Starbucks every day, you know, from whether it's emotions or physical positioning.

Shari: 00:08:22

And now something else will pop up and, you know, appear because it couldn't reveal itself.

Shari: 00:08:28

'cause it was behind this other pattern.

Shari: 00:08:30

Yeah.

Shari: 00:08:30

Right.

Shari: 00:08:31

So then we have to work on that thing.

Shari: 00:08:32

And I think of it as like untying a necklace knot.

Shari: 00:08:35

Because when you have this knot in your necklace, you're like, oh my gosh, here's this big knot.

Shari: 00:08:39

Okay, I'm gonna take this one piece out.

Shari: 00:08:40

Like, ugh, that wasn't actually the problem.

Shari: 00:08:42

Yeah.

Shari: 00:08:43

There's like five other knots.

Shari: 00:08:44

Okay, now there's 20 knots.

Shari: 00:08:45

I made knots.

Shari: 00:08:46

Yeah.

Shari: 00:08:46

By trying to untie this knot.

Shari: 00:08:47

And it goes on, it's, and yeah, you know, you wanna give up.

Shari: 00:08:52

Just like, okay, I'm not wearing this necklace ever again.

Shari: 00:08:54

You might take some time, come back to it, you know, eventually, and not the whole thing.

Shari: 00:08:58

And then it's still kind of wrinkly and you need to like do more work to just smooth things out.

Shari: 00:09:03

Wear it again, be happy with it, you know, it takes time.

Shari: 00:09:06

And really that's what I see in babies and, and parents that I work with.

Shari: 00:09:11

With parents, it's harder 'cause you've been holding onto these patterns.

Shari: 00:09:14

They're comfortable, you know.

Shari: 00:09:17

You are.

Shari: 00:09:17

Yeah.

Shari: 00:09:18

It feels safe to you because it's normal.

Shari: 00:09:20

It's what?

Shari: 00:09:21

It's what you've everyday compensation and making the change to feel better in your body or not have certain emotions pulling you down.

Shari: 00:09:32

You know, if there's different charts that show you again, I'm.

Shari: 00:09:37

At a loss of words, so I'm not gonna go over the specific things, but, you know, um, yeah.

Shari: 00:09:42

Where anger is stored or where you feel like you couldn't speak up and you were maybe, you know, like in the, a birth for instance, like

Shari: 00:09:51

silenced.

Shari: 00:09:52

Yeah.

Shari: 00:09:52

I had a birth experience where, it was my first natural birth.

Shari: 00:09:56

It was really fast.

Shari: 00:09:58

And I went in and they're like, we need to check you.

Shari: 00:10:01

I'm like, no, I don't need to be checked.

Shari: 00:10:03

I'm having this baby right now.

Shari: 00:10:04

And they went to have me lay down on the bed.

Shari: 00:10:06

I was like, I'm not birthing that way, you know?

Shari: 00:10:08

Yeah.

Shari: 00:10:08

And then later, I heard the, this is a hospital setting, but a hospital midwife say something about giving me a shot of something.

Shari: 00:10:17

And I was like, no.

Shari: 00:10:18

What are you giving me a shot of?

Shari: 00:10:19

I don't want that.

Shari: 00:10:20

And then hearing her say to the nurse, give it to her anyway.

Shari: 00:10:23

That was my voice being taken from me.

Shari: 00:10:25

And you know, it, it was the only thing that I had, you know, we all focus on things from our birth, but that was the thing I focused on and it made me so angry.

Shari: 00:10:33

Like, I did not give you consent.

Shari: 00:10:35

You did this to my body.

Shari: 00:10:36

Yeah.

Shari: 00:10:36

You didn't explain what you were doing.

Shari: 00:10:38

And it led me to the birth after that where I had a horrible four day long, this planned birth where I didn't allow it to go naturally.

Shari: 00:10:48

Yeah, because I wanted to have more, I wanted my doula to be able to make it in time.

Shari: 00:10:52

I wanted my birth photographer to make it in time.

Shari: 00:10:54

I wanted to be able to tell people, I don't want that midwife for me.

Shari: 00:10:57

So you

Trish: 00:10:57

were controlling it all.

Shari: 00:10:59

So I had more control in a sense, but really no control, because then it was, it was worse on my baby and was worth on my worse on my body.

Shari: 00:11:06

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:11:06

And I needed, you know.

Shari: 00:11:09

All the things and then couldn't feel half my body when it came to it, you know?

Shari: 00:11:13

And then she was stuck in the birth canal for an hour.

Shari: 00:11:15

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:11:15

But I still came outta that going, at least they asked me every time they needed to do something, they asked for my consent.

Shari: 00:11:21

They said, is this okay?

Shari: 00:11:22

And they said, I know you said that you didn't want to epidural.

Shari: 00:11:25

Are you really sure you want that now?

Shari: 00:11:27

And you know, just along the way.

Shari: 00:11:28

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:11:29

I was asked for my consent.

Shari: 00:11:30

So I felt safer in that experience.

Shari: 00:11:32

It was definitely not the birth experience I would normally say wanted.

Shari: 00:11:35

And I felt embarrassed the whole time.

Shari: 00:11:37

'cause you know, I was a postpartum doula at the time and I had my doula who I knew as a colleague, and I was like, oh, is she gonna think less of me because I'm doing this type of birth experience?

Shari: 00:11:46

You know?

Shari: 00:11:46

And that's something that we battle with in the birth phase sometimes.

Shari: 00:11:49

Yeah.

Shari: 00:11:49

So I was like, this is how I need to get through it.

Shari: 00:11:51

So I walked out of there at least resolving things from the previous birth.

Shari: 00:11:57

Then putting myself in another, you know, anyway.

Shari: 00:12:00

Yeah.

Shari: 00:12:00

This is me going off on a very long tangent.

Shari: 00:12:02

But,

Trish: 00:12:03

so what, what I would love to get back.

Trish: 00:12:05

Yeah.

Shari: 00:12:06

Yes.

Shari: 00:12:07

It, it's stored in your body and stored in different organs, right?

Shari: 00:12:10

we, we forget that, or we don't know what we don't know also.

Shari: 00:12:14

And so with babies, when they're not feeding well, we go, oh, what's the latch?

Shari: 00:12:18

Oh, which position are you holding the baby in?

Shari: 00:12:20

And it's not always that.

Shari: 00:12:22

It's often a lot deeper.

Shari: 00:12:25

And this is where I am also a breastfeeding specialist.

Shari: 00:12:29

I'm not an I-B-C-L-C yet.

Shari: 00:12:30

I've been working towards that and that's been a whole thing, trying to get all of my hours.

Shari: 00:12:34

But, I'll have someone see me.

Shari: 00:12:35

Yeah, I've heard after seeing an I-B-C-L-C and you know, they, they don't know what they don't know and everyone has different training.

Shari: 00:12:44

But then I'm able to be like, well.

Shari: 00:12:46

Get this baby on the breast that they weren't feeding off of before.

Shari: 00:12:50

You know, get them back to breast more, help with feeding because it's not, it's beyond what the other person knew to offer because it's really something that is stored in the body.

Shari: 00:13:02

It is nerve dysfunction.

Shari: 00:13:04

It is, a tension pattern that's on a loop that we need to try to, adjust.

Shari: 00:13:09

Really, I'm working with the baby though, so it's.

Shari: 00:13:12

It's not me doing something to the baby, it's saying, you have the ability to do this.

Shari: 00:13:16

It's okay to release, and then the baby's doing the work.

Shari: 00:13:20

So I always tell parents, your baby is doing the work for the next 72 hours.

Shari: 00:13:24

They're going to be releasing.

Shari: 00:13:25

They might be more upset 'cause they're working through stuff.

Shari: 00:13:28

They might be happy, they might be really tired or more hungry.

Shari: 00:13:31

And then you're gonna see something very different after those 72 hours.

Shari: 00:13:35

And and

Trish: 00:13:35

how does a, how does a mom know to come to you?

Trish: 00:13:39

That's the

Shari: 00:13:39

problem is

Trish: 00:13:40

like

Shari: 00:13:40

I, I think more and more people are learning, like CST is becoming a little bit of a buzzword, hopefully, but hopefully not thought as a buzz thing.

Shari: 00:13:50

Just because, so I also, aside from my own business, I teach for B-M-C-S-D and I have taught, RNs, OTs, PTs, chiropractors, so more people from different fields are learning cranial sacral therapy to help their babies.

Shari: 00:14:05

Yeah.

Shari: 00:14:06

And the

Shari: 00:14:06

children they work with, 'cause they're seeing, oh, this is actually something to do with the vagus nerve.

Shari: 00:14:11

Oh, this is actually something to do with the fascia.

Shari: 00:14:14

Like, this isn't, or this is an emotional, thing, this is birth trauma.

Shari: 00:14:17

These are things you, instead of compensations, we need to actually find the root cause and help this baby feel better and help this family.

Shari: 00:14:25

Yeah.

Shari: 00:14:26

Feel better.

Shari: 00:14:26

Because really you're working with the whole family.

Shari: 00:14:29

You know, it's, it's not just the baby's problem.

Shari: 00:14:32

There's a parent.

Shari: 00:14:34

And, their body tissue you need to be looking at.

Shari: 00:14:36

Yeah.

Shari: 00:14:36

And how they interact with the baby.

Shari: 00:14:38

Things as simple as me in the appointment demonstrating, the fact that I'm talking to their baby is huge.

Shari: 00:14:44

And when the baby's upset.

Shari: 00:14:46

Talk about, oh, I'm sorry.

Shari: 00:14:48

Was that uncomfortable?

Shari: 00:14:49

You know, and making that normal for the parent, for parent who's never seen that demonstrated, versus just the, you're okay, you're okay and trying to shut the baby down.

Shari: 00:14:58

Like, we don't realize we're doing that, but that's essentially what saying you're okay to them, is instead of listening to this baby say, yeah, I, that experience was really hard for me too.

Shari: 00:15:09

Because we have, yeah,

Shari: 00:15:10

as

Shari: 00:15:11

as parents, we need to talk about our birth experience a lot.

Shari: 00:15:13

Right?

Shari: 00:15:13

It comes up.

Shari: 00:15:14

Comes up.

Shari: 00:15:15

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:15:15

We need to try to integrate it and it can take years.

Shari: 00:15:18

You find out someone else is pregnant, you tell your story again.

Shari: 00:15:21

Right?

Shari: 00:15:22

And for babies, they can't communicate it that same way.

Shari: 00:15:25

But you might notice that they are fussy or kind of wanting to chime in when you are telling that story.

Shari: 00:15:33

And sometimes, I have babies, that's what they need is they need the parent to be like.

Shari: 00:15:37

Well, that was tough for you, wasn't it?

Shari: 00:15:39

You were taken away, you know, you were resuscitated for quite some time.

Shari: 00:15:43

You were away from me.

Shari: 00:15:44

That was scary or.

Shari: 00:15:47

Yeah, I was really nervous about having another baby because I'm so overwhelmed already.

Shari: 00:15:51

You probably felt that I'm so sorry.

Shari: 00:15:54

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:15:54

Or, you know, I wasn't really here for you in the pregnancy.

Shari: 00:15:57

I didn't really feel connected.

Shari: 00:15:58

I had a, you know, a loss in my family and I was so focused on that.

Shari: 00:16:02

I kind of went numb because I needed to, to cope and that was probably hard for you.

Shari: 00:16:07

You know?

Shari: 00:16:08

Things like that are another part of what I do, and.

Shari: 00:16:12

It's shocking how just talking with a parent about that or getting them to slow down and be with the baby when they're feeding, improves the feeding,

Shari: 00:16:20

Me in present.

Shari: 00:16:22

Yeah.

Shari: 00:16:23

Connecting with your baby.

Shari: 00:16:24

Wow.

Shari: 00:16:24

That's interesting.

Shari: 00:16:24

So,

Shari: 00:16:25

you know, I give home care to my parents 'cause I, I see people virtually in person.

Shari: 00:16:29

Obviously if it's me working with a baby and a parent.

Shari: 00:16:33

And an integrative wellness perspective.

Shari: 00:16:35

I like to be in person and see things, and be able to touch the baby, but, I give infant massages, home care and, you know, all these things that build connection and help these parents to de-stress as much as the baby and, you know, regulate their system.

Shari: 00:16:53

And, because if you're stressed, your baby's stressed because they're marrying you.

Shari: 00:16:57

So like, I might be working with a baby, get their fascia to kind of unwind a little bit.

Shari: 00:17:01

So Interesting.

Shari: 00:17:01

And go home and I'm sure.

Shari: 00:17:02

And it's like everybody's stressed out.

Shari: 00:17:05

Yeah.

Shari: 00:17:05

So, difficult to progress.

Trish: 00:17:08

Yeah.

Trish: 00:17:09

It's so, yeah.

Trish: 00:17:10

It's, there's so much there.

Trish: 00:17:11

And I'm sure there's so many people who aren't even receptive to some of those ideas.

Shari: 00:17:17

I mean, it depends on the, I think at least locally right now, when someone comes to me, I know that 80% of the time they're probably open to a concept like this because.

Shari: 00:17:28

They have to be more of like a crunchy or semi crunchy type of person to be like you of psychotherapy.

Shari: 00:17:33

Awesome.

Shari: 00:17:34

Other, but even then sometimes I feel kinda awkward, like, yeah, I know this may sound weird, but can you for homework, go home.

Shari: 00:17:39

Like take a bath with your baby.

Shari: 00:17:41

You know, if, depending on how postpartum they are, I'm like, put the sits bath tea in the bath.

Shari: 00:17:46

Be naked with your baby and just talk to them.

Shari: 00:17:48

Try to let them comfort latch as much as they want.

Shari: 00:17:51

Wait for them to respond.

Shari: 00:17:53

Like that's.

Shari: 00:17:54

You.

Shari: 00:17:55

And sometimes they're kind of, oh yeah, get my looks.

Shari: 00:17:57

And other times, like they'll look at me and be like, wow.

Shari: 00:18:00

Yeah, that's, that makes sense.

Shari: 00:18:02

Oh yeah, I did that with them.

Shari: 00:18:04

It was great.

Trish: 00:18:04

Yeah.

Shari: 00:18:05

It's important.

Shari: 00:18:06

So important.

Shari: 00:18:06

Yeah.

Trish: 00:18:06

So I, I find myself, like, I always say I'm crunchy with a site of medical, so like I've got my foot in there and my foot in here.

Trish: 00:18:14

So like I'm open and receptive, but I also am like, hmm, like I find myself like wondering about it.

Trish: 00:18:21

But I think on like so many different levels, even if you don't believe, validating that to the baby or.

Trish: 00:18:31

You know, like what you were saying when you're talking to it, there's gotta be a sense of healing for her too as she talks through those things.

Shari: 00:18:38

Yes.

Shari: 00:18:38

Because

Trish: 00:18:38

it's it's your journey together.

Shari: 00:18:40

Exactly.

Trish: 00:18:41

So like even when you were saying, I'm sorry that, that they took you from me, and that must have been hard for you.

Shari: 00:18:49

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:18:50

It was

Trish: 00:18:50

also hard for

Shari: 00:18:51

her.

Shari: 00:18:52

Yes.

Trish: 00:18:53

It's also gotta be healing for her to say it, even if the mom doesn't believe maybe.

Trish: 00:19:00

Maybe she's not like, well I don't know if I need to validate to the baby.

Trish: 00:19:03

It's still their journey together.

Trish: 00:19:06

So like those things are things she needs to heal too.

Shari: 00:19:11

Definitely.

Shari: 00:19:11

And and sometimes just saying, asking for forgiveness to somebody is healing because you have guilt you didn't realize and mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:19:19

And like you were saying about crunchy with a side of medical, I mean all of this stuff you could.

Shari: 00:19:24

If I had the time and I wanted to, I could find the articles and talk, you know, talk about like infant psychology and, you know, babies are people.

Shari: 00:19:32

Yeah.

Shari: 00:19:32

There's, you know, I could bring up all the evidence-based whatnot, but No, I, I 100%

Trish: 00:19:39

I wonder percent believe it.

Trish: 00:19:40

It

Shari: 00:19:41

makes sense.

Trish: 00:19:42

Yeah.

Trish: 00:19:42

Yeah.

Trish: 00:19:42

Well, and it like, if you think about, if we know, and I don't know if you've ever read the book, the Body Keeps the Score.

Shari: 00:19:50

Yes.

Trish: 00:19:51

Such a good book and it just makes sense.

Trish: 00:19:55

Like we're not talking about just mental trauma, but physically birth is traumatizing.

Trish: 00:20:00

Mm-hmm.

Trish: 00:20:01

You know, and the majority of my career, when we talked about birth trauma, it was actually about the baby, not the mom.

Trish: 00:20:07

It's just been in the last like decade that it's become about like mental trauma and not physically trauma, but.

Trish: 00:20:14

Birth is, it's a rough little journey like on both of them.

Trish: 00:20:18

So like, it, it all just makes so much logical sense as well.

Trish: 00:20:22

So like, I, I just feel like there's so much in that and.

Trish: 00:20:27

Even just the positioning baby was in and then we're trying to get him into all these different positions to breastfeed and can you even imagine like having your neck like this after being like this?

Trish: 00:20:39

You know?

Trish: 00:20:39

And it's like, yes.

Trish: 00:20:40

It's just, there's so much, like I feel like we're just so much wisdom in a lot of this and like releasing that, not just the, like the mental and the emotional, but the physical releasing of that.

Shari: 00:20:54

Right.

Shari: 00:20:54

That trauma, and especially because the emotional turns into the physical, especially for babies, because they can't just, yeah.

Shari: 00:21:01

Tell somebody this hurts and you know, let me put, I need PT right here.

Shari: 00:21:05

Well I think we're all

Trish: 00:21:06

babies in that sense, don't you think?

Trish: 00:21:08

Yes.

Trish: 00:21:08

That, that we don't know how to tell what really hurts and Yes, because

Shari: 00:21:11

you know people and why it hurts people be like, well my neck hurts, but actually it's not your neck.

Shari: 00:21:16

Right.

Shari: 00:21:16

It could be referred pain from somewhere else.

Shari: 00:21:18

Yeah.

Shari: 00:21:19

That's really the issue.

Shari: 00:21:20

And that's the other thing, you know, when I do CST, sometimes people are like, well, why aren't you here?

Shari: 00:21:25

Because I said, that's what hurts.

Shari: 00:21:26

I'm like, well this is, you know, we, we do an evaluation and go where the body leads us because your body's not going to release what it's not ready to release.

Shari: 00:21:34

And so you gotta follow what the body is ready for.

Shari: 00:21:36

And that's why things can take time.

Shari: 00:21:38

And it's like that necklace.

Trish: 00:21:40

Yeah, just

Shari: 00:21:40

telling you about like, oh, well this other thing popped up.

Shari: 00:21:42

Okay, let's work there.

Shari: 00:21:44

I have a

Trish: 00:21:44

necklace sitting in my jewelry cabinet right now that is like haunting me as you talk because I love it so much, but it's like a train wreck and I will never get it untangled, I don't think.

Shari: 00:21:54

Ever.

Shari: 00:21:54

And this is an example of, I also give up on necklaces and I have a 14-year-old who's like an untangling expert.

Shari: 00:22:00

And so I'll then, that was my oldest daughter.

Shari: 00:22:02

I'll go to my expert, like, can you please untangle this for me?

Shari: 00:22:05

Yeah.

Shari: 00:22:05

But

Trish: 00:22:05

she, mine moved out because she's 25 now, so she doesn't, she doesn't wanna untangle my necklaces anymore.

Trish: 00:22:11

She just

Shari: 00:22:12

mailed them to her.

Trish: 00:22:13

Well, she lives local, but when she comes over, she doesn't wanna untangle mom's necklaces anymore.

Trish: 00:22:18

So Satara, if you're listening.

Trish: 00:22:21

You get to untangle it's time.

Trish: 00:22:22

Yeah.

Trish: 00:22:22

But she has the patience and the eyesight.

Trish: 00:22:25

I have neither.

Shari: 00:22:26

And the, I feel like the, our dexterity, I don't know, our change, our fingers get fatter as we get older or something.

Shari: 00:22:31

It's the inflammation.

Shari: 00:22:33

I don't know.

Shari: 00:22:33

Yeah.

Trish: 00:22:33

Something I don't know, doesn't, but now that we're completely off topic, but back too.

Trish: 00:22:39

where locally if someone wants to come see you?

Trish: 00:22:42

'cause I want them to know where you are locally.

Trish: 00:22:43

Yeah.

Shari: 00:22:43

So I am in Lathrop, California, but I do some things virtually, like I'll talk about baby sleep because really infant sleep has to do with I don't do training.

Shari: 00:22:53

It's what?

Shari: 00:22:54

Yeah.

Shari: 00:22:54

You know, it has to do with, well how are they feed feeding?

Shari: 00:22:58

What was your birth like?

Shari: 00:22:59

What is your surrounding home ecosystem like?

Shari: 00:23:02

You know, it's no baby is cookie cutter.

Shari: 00:23:04

So if anyone tells you this is what your baby should be doing.

Shari: 00:23:07

I feel.

Shari: 00:23:10

They have not met your baby yet.

Shari: 00:23:12

You know, your ecosystem is different.

Shari: 00:23:14

So I do all sorts of things virtually.

Shari: 00:23:15

And then, in person, I'm in Lathrop, California and I feel like, which I have no idea

Trish: 00:23:21

where that's at, where is that?

Shari: 00:23:23

I'm, it's the Central Valley of Northern California.

Shari: 00:23:26

Okay.

Shari: 00:23:26

And, but yeah, I'm in the middle of nowhere almost.

Trish: 00:23:28

I've done travel assignment.

Trish: 00:23:30

I did travel assignment.

Trish: 00:23:32

Oh my gosh.

Trish: 00:23:32

What was the name of that city?

Trish: 00:23:33

It was, it was south of Sacramento.

Shari: 00:23:37

Okay.

Shari: 00:23:37

I'm definitely south of Sacramento.

Shari: 00:23:38

I'm in, so the Great Wolf Lodge has their Bay Area location that is like, okay.

Shari: 00:23:43

Or I think it originally was San Francisco is how they marketed it, but it's really like two hours from San Francisco.

Shari: 00:23:49

I'm 20 minutes from that.

Trish: 00:23:50

I'm trying to remember.

Trish: 00:23:51

The hospital I was at, I think was San Jacinto, was the hospital I was at, but I can't remember the city.

Trish: 00:23:58

I can't remember the city, but I'll remember at like Like 2:00 AM this morning.

Trish: 00:24:01

Yeah, in the morning.

Trish: 00:24:02

And I'll be like, oh, that was the city.

Trish: 00:24:04

But anyway, we stayed in the Bay Area and I drove to the hospital.

Trish: 00:24:09

It was like an hour and a half.

Trish: 00:24:10

It was a ridiculous drive, but there was nothing to do there.

Trish: 00:24:13

So,

Shari: 00:24:13

yeah.

Shari: 00:24:14

So where I live, it's kind of like an up and coming city.

Shari: 00:24:17

They say the fastest growing city, but yeah, there isn't much.

Shari: 00:24:20

But that's where I'm okay and I'm worth the drive.

Trish: 00:24:24

There you have it.

Trish: 00:24:25

I love the confidence.

Trish: 00:24:26

Yes.

Shari: 00:24:27

But back to our children, untie necklaces for us.

Shari: 00:24:30

Yeah.

Trish: 00:24:30

That's just

Shari: 00:24:31

to say like.

Shari: 00:24:32

You need support in untying this stuff for yourself.

Shari: 00:24:35

That third, that other person, it's really hard to do our own stuff.

Shari: 00:24:38

You can't be your own patient, is what I like to say.

Shari: 00:24:41

It's like I go get my own body work.

Shari: 00:24:42

I have I, I take my kids to see somebody else because though I work on them myself, there's also the barrier of, I am kind of a part of some of that

Shari: 00:24:51

that

Shari: 00:24:51

is stuck in them.

Shari: 00:24:52

So, they need somebody

Shari: 00:24:55

and then, yeah.

Shari: 00:24:56

This also goes into, this is a whole different topic, but oral ties, so we know they, those can limit, infant feeding sometimes.

Shari: 00:25:03

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:25:04

There's some people who say ties don't exist.

Shari: 00:25:05

You know, there's a whole bunch of arguments on that.

Shari: 00:25:08

Yeah.

Shari: 00:25:08

But, there's different types of ties and there's also fo ties.

Shari: 00:25:12

And this is going back to that nerve disc, cranial nerve dysfunction and other things in the body.

Shari: 00:25:17

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:25:17

And that can present as a tie, but it's actually the baby just needs more support.

Shari: 00:25:23

Their nervous system needs support and, and home care.

Shari: 00:25:26

There's so much you can do at home between seeing people.

Shari: 00:25:29

I don't want people to like listen to this and be like, oh, I'm a, I'm lost.

Shari: 00:25:32

I can't do anything without,

Shari: 00:25:34

yeah.

Shari: 00:25:34

You know,

Shari: 00:25:35

a practitioner, back to the basics of connection doing in infant massage with your baby humming and staining with them having tummy time on you.

Shari: 00:25:43

That's all so important.

Shari: 00:25:44

Yeah.

Shari: 00:25:45

I like just when you, if you're bottle feeding, for instance, making, I love paste bottle feeding because then it's not like we're propping a bottle and leaning it Yeah.

Shari: 00:25:54

You know, the baby and, making eye contact and talking to your baby just as if you were breastfeeding, you know?

Shari: 00:25:59

Yeah.

Shari: 00:26:00

Making it something that's not passive just makes all the difference.

Trish: 00:26:04

Yeah.

Trish: 00:26:05

And I, I just, I love just the simplicity of just talking to your baby.

Trish: 00:26:11

Like I do that and you know, I'm not at bedside anymore, but it's one of my favorite things.

Trish: 00:26:17

And like, I honestly, I'm very like you, you've seen me yawning.

Trish: 00:26:20

I'm very tired 'cause I'm too old to stay up late.

Trish: 00:26:23

But I. Love.

Trish: 00:26:25

One of the things I loved the most is right after baby is born and the commotion is done and I dim the lights and baby's eyes pop up and you know, and they're in that awake alert stage.

Trish: 00:26:35

And mom taught, I would always say, just talk to your baby.

Trish: 00:26:39

Sing like whatever.

Trish: 00:26:40

Just have a conversation, like tell 'em you're excited to meet them.

Trish: 00:26:43

Like, oh, you're the one that's been kicking me.

Trish: 00:26:45

You're the one you know, and like, I've been waiting for you, and it's such that.

Trish: 00:26:50

That lock when they lock in on each other in that moment, like I, it tear, it's tearing me up.

Trish: 00:26:57

Like I, it's such an incredible experience that I think a lot of women miss out on because of the chaos of the labor room.

Trish: 00:27:06

Yes, and, and a lot of.

Trish: 00:27:09

Moms and a lot of parents will allow visitors to bring more chaos.

Trish: 00:27:14

And they miss that Like, like I try to tell my students like, just guard that first hour.

Trish: 00:27:20

Like when grandma meets baby, when your mom meets baby, when your sister meets the baby.

Trish: 00:27:24

That moment's gonna be special.

Trish: 00:27:26

No matter whether it's immediate or an hour later, or two hours later or two days later or whatever.

Trish: 00:27:31

It's still gonna be amazing and.

Trish: 00:27:33

But to be able to guard that time and it and for like, it starts with all your senses, including you speaking to them.

Shari: 00:27:41

Yes.

Shari: 00:27:42

And that smile, so that just

Trish: 00:27:43

floats my boat.

Trish: 00:27:44

Yeah.

Shari: 00:27:45

Yeah.

Shari: 00:27:45

That's the smile on baby's face the way, like the way your baby lights up when they look at you, like, you know, because you are their entire world.

Shari: 00:27:53

There is nothing like that.

Shari: 00:27:55

Yeah.

Shari: 00:27:55

You know,

Shari: 00:27:55

as they get older you're gonna miss that.

Shari: 00:27:57

Yeah.

Shari: 00:27:58

Someone, one of

Shari: 00:27:58

those people, no, it's just, it, I don't get.

Shari: 00:28:02

Tired of seeing that smile, you know?

Shari: 00:28:04

Well that baby has when their parents holding them and Yeah.

Shari: 00:28:07

You know, people often say like, oh their baby, they won't remember this, blah, blah, blah.

Shari: 00:28:11

But as we've discussed, like their body will remember it.

Shari: 00:28:14

Yeah.

Shari: 00:28:14

And also this is a foundation of their safety, which then allows them to take risky, you know?

Shari: 00:28:21

Do risky behavior and explore and be curious.

Shari: 00:28:24

Mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:28:25

So that their brain can grow, their physical body can develop as they get.

Shari: 00:28:29

Yeah.

Shari: 00:28:29

You know, older through the toddlers and beyond.

Shari: 00:28:31

This is all the foundation of that and it's very, very important.

Shari: 00:28:35

And your time with them matters and you matter.

Shari: 00:28:38

That's a big thing.

Shari: 00:28:39

I mean, there's so many moms and postpartum who feel like they don't matter.

Shari: 00:28:43

Oh, I'm with a baby, so I don't matter.

Shari: 00:28:45

Depending on their situation at home.

Shari: 00:28:47

I am not making money anymore, so I don't matter.

Shari: 00:28:50

And it's, it's really emotional, it's really difficult and it mm-hmm.

Shari: 00:28:53

So

Shari: 00:28:54

much loss of identity and other things.

Shari: 00:28:56

And so it's so important to remember like, you are the world.

Trish: 00:28:59

Yeah.

Trish: 00:28:59

You, you are.

Trish: 00:29:00

You matter a lot.

Shari: 00:29:01

Yeah.

Shari: 00:29:01

You are creating this person to be a person in the world affecting countless others in the world.

Shari: 00:29:11

Yeah.

Trish: 00:29:11

Yeah.

Trish: 00:29:12

Well and that's like, so I don't, I don't know if you know, but I also have a business mastermind for women who have businesses, mostly marketing to moms and parents.

Trish: 00:29:22

And I tell my clients all the time, because I am at the other and like I have a 10-year-old, 'cause I had 'em late in life, but most of my kids are adults.

Trish: 00:29:29

And I don't care how much money you make or how successful your business is, the most important job you have is raising that human.

Trish: 00:29:38

And you can always go on to make more money and sell your courses or, or do whatever.

Trish: 00:29:42

Mm-hmm.

Trish: 00:29:43

But you can never go back and have those moments again.

Trish: 00:29:46

Like they are the most important thing.

Trish: 00:29:48

And I'm speaking to the choir 'cause I, when, you know, when you love your own business, like it's really hard to separate and set boundaries and step away.

Trish: 00:29:55

And so that's an important part of my mastermind is like, no, you need to like define this as a business.

Trish: 00:30:01

Whether you're clocking in at a. At a job or you own the business.

Trish: 00:30:04

Like you need to be clocking out, get your head outta your phone.

Trish: 00:30:07

Especially for those of us who with social media.

Trish: 00:30:09

Mm-hmm.

Trish: 00:30:09

Get your head outta your phone and be present for your family.

Trish: 00:30:12

So this, for those of you guys listening, 'cause I know I have a lot of business owners, doulas and birth workers like that.

Trish: 00:30:18

It's important for us to remember that this is not just at the beginning, like I'm going off on a soapbox right now, but this is not just at the beginning of your journey as a mom.

Trish: 00:30:27

This is always, and I fail at this as a business owner and as a mom, I have to remind myself too, like Trish, like stop for a minute.

Trish: 00:30:35

Look him in the eye and give him attention.

Trish: 00:30:38

Like it's important.

Trish: 00:30:40

Yeah.

Trish: 00:30:40

And that is just, that starts from the moment that we have them inside of us.

Trish: 00:30:45

You know, just being present

Shari: 00:30:47

really.

Shari: 00:30:47

Yeah.

Shari: 00:30:48

Just taking a few moments.

Shari: 00:30:49

I'm going to put this phone away from me, you know?

Shari: 00:30:52

Yeah.

Shari: 00:30:52

Take a moment of intention, just talk.

Trish: 00:30:54

Yeah.

Trish: 00:30:54

With

Shari: 00:30:54

baby.

Shari: 00:30:55

We're so used to that adrenaline and instant gratification from our phone.

Shari: 00:30:59

It's hard.

Trish: 00:31:00

Yeah.

Trish: 00:31:01

It's an addiction.

Trish: 00:31:02

It's a drug.

Trish: 00:31:03

Yeah.

Trish: 00:31:03

It

Shari: 00:31:03

really is.

Trish: 00:31:04

When I had Grayson, we definitely had, obviously he's 10, we had cell phones and we, you know, like the, the caliber of ones we do now, but the majority of my children, I didn't have that.

Trish: 00:31:14

So I didn't have that distraction when I was breastfeeding.

Trish: 00:31:17

And I think that in itself, like.

Trish: 00:31:20

Take some of your feeds where you just put your phone away.

Trish: 00:31:23

You don't need to be scrolling, like stare at your baby, touch your baby, explore.

Trish: 00:31:27

Like I can remember there are moments, I remember breastfeeding, like looking at their little hands and their ears.

Trish: 00:31:32

Oh yeah.

Trish: 00:31:32

And like touching them.

Trish: 00:31:34

And like those moments can be missed when you're staring at your phone instead of like being present in that moment.

Shari: 00:31:41

And a baby who's uncomfortable in their body, that's the prime time to give them like a leg massage and open up their hands.

Shari: 00:31:46

Nice arm massage.

Shari: 00:31:47

Yeah.

Shari: 00:31:48

Talk soon to them.

Shari: 00:31:49

Take a moment to take some breaths.

Shari: 00:31:51

Practice on your breathing through your nose.

Shari: 00:31:54

Yeah.

Shari: 00:31:54

Making sure you're not in survival, breathing, you know, outta your mouth.

Shari: 00:31:57

Because we might go to escape.

Shari: 00:32:00

Unknowingly in our phone, but every time you look at it, like social media raises your cortisol levels no matter what.

Shari: 00:32:06

Right.

Shari: 00:32:07

Or you might get an email or something from somebody and it suddenly, it's like anxiety central or text message.

Trish: 00:32:13

Yeah.

Trish: 00:32:13

Yeah.

Shari: 00:32:14

That's just, oh, I wish I didn't know that or read that.

Shari: 00:32:17

And now, you know, ruins your whole day type of moment because especially when your hormones are all over the place.

Shari: 00:32:24

Rough.

Trish: 00:32:24

Yeah.

Shari: 00:32:25

Yeah.

Shari: 00:32:25

Um, nothing good can come from it.

Trish: 00:32:27

No.

Trish: 00:32:28

Now that we've gone down like 50 different rabbit holes.

Trish: 00:32:30

Yes.

Trish: 00:32:31

Love it.

Trish: 00:32:31

And I know my listeners, they don't like long podcasts, so we are going to be wrapping this up, but I would love for you just for a moment, tell everyone where they can find you online and how they can connect with you.

Shari: 00:32:43

Yes.

Shari: 00:32:44

So I am@navigatingparenthood.com and then I'm navigating parenthood on social media, which.

Shari: 00:32:50

For my mental health.

Shari: 00:32:51

I'm not always like, I'm posting the stories, but not always posting content necessarily.

Shari: 00:32:56

Yeah.

Shari: 00:32:57

And then I have recently I am in presale for your baby's ty care bestie, which is all about home care resources for if you are having feeding difficulties and someone's like, I think that might be a tie.

Shari: 00:33:10

Well, okay.

Shari: 00:33:11

Well let's take a step back and what can we do at home to support our baby and to support connection.

Shari: 00:33:17

And feel empowered about this before we make a rash decision.

Shari: 00:33:21

And so that's kind of, it talks about what ties are different people on your care team, different activities and things you can do at home before and then after frenectomy if you choose to do one or need to do one and, and so forth.

Shari: 00:33:34

And, and so it's, it's really a resource that I felt was needed because my clients, were coming in.

Shari: 00:33:40

A lot of them after having a ectomy, not knowing that they should come see me first to help their baby before they do procedure, or not knowing what to do at home.

Shari: 00:33:50

And so it's hard enough when you're having difficulty with feeding, but being able to have a resource.

Shari: 00:33:55

And not feeling as frazzled as you already are, I think is really helpful.

Shari: 00:34:00

So that's my new, um, thing that I'm schlepping.

Shari: 00:34:04

But yeah, I have massage courses and you know, content you can peruse.

Shari: 00:34:09

I have six kids, five who are still, oh, I didn't know that.

Shari: 00:34:14

Yeah, I have seven.

Shari: 00:34:15

Oh my gosh.

Trish: 00:34:16

Yeah.

Shari: 00:34:17

Yeah.

Trish: 00:34:17

One is adopted.

Trish: 00:34:18

So

Shari: 00:34:19

when people hear that, they're like, oh, it must be wonderful.

Shari: 00:34:21

And I'm like, I mean, individually, yes.

Shari: 00:34:25

A lot of fighting.

Trish: 00:34:27

Well, mine are all grown now, but they still have their moments sometimes when they're here, like picking on each other and, but yeah, it's definitely a different, it's a different ballgame now that

Shari: 00:34:36

depressing is, I look forward to that ending, but, you know, they're amazing people.

Trish: 00:34:42

Yeah.

Trish: 00:34:42

Yeah.

Trish: 00:34:43

Well, thank you so much for coming today to frazzled moms Tired, frazzled moms slash business owners.

Trish: 00:34:49

Yes.

Trish: 00:34:49

I appreciate you coming today.

Trish: 00:34:51

Thank you so much.

Shari: 00:34:52

Thank you so much for having me.

Shari: 00:34:53

It was great chatting with you.

Trish: 00:34:54

You too.