We've learned a lot after writing and publishing after thirty-seven cookbooks. We'd love to share with you those lessons.

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've actually written forty cookbooks, including two knitting books by Bruce and a memoir by Mark. We've been around the block! We'd love to tell you what we've learned over this long publishing career.

We've also got a one-minute cooking tip. And we're really excited about a specific type of melon and Mark's really excited about a specific way to cook goat.

If you'd like to get a copy of our latest cookbook, COLD CANNING, please check it out at this link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[01:22] Our one-minute cooking tip: Store garlic at room temperature

[03:27] What have we learned after writing and publishing thirty-seven cookbooks.

[23:27] What’s making us happy in food this week? Melons and goat!

Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein, and this is the Podcast

2

Cooking with Bruce and Martin.

3

And I'm Mark Scarborough.

4

And together with Bruce, you know we

have written 37 cookbooks, but you

5

also know that our latest cookbook,

cold counting is on sale now.

6

Finally.

7

Mm-hmm.

8

Finally, we've talked about it enough.

9

It is.

10

Out there, small batch canning.

11

It is a gorgeous book.

12

Go out to our TikTok channel and

watch me do an unboxing video of

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the first time we see this cookbook.

14

It's kind of fascinating.

15

I think I posted it on Instagram on my

personal account too and on Facebook.

16

Um, it's fascinating 'cause a, I hate.

17

Author unboxing videos,

but BI get to see it.

18

And, uh, this thing weighs a ton.

19

425 recipes on really high

gloss, beautiful paper.

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Tons of photographs.

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How many photographs?

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I

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Bruce: don't

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Mark: even remember.

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A

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Bruce: 2 25.

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Mark: Yeah.

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Lots of photographs beautifully

designed, beautifully laid out.

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The publisher.

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Little grounded.

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Uh.

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Bang up job on this book.

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When we turned in the manuscript,

I never expected it to look like

34

this, so go check out cold canning.

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But before that, we do

have a podcast to do.

36

We've got a one minute cooking tip.

37

We'll tell you what we have learned after

the publication of our 37th cookbook.

38

What have we learned about

this cookbook career?

39

And I will tell you what's making

us happy in food this week.

40

So let's get started.

41

Bruce: Our one minute cooking tip.

42

Store garlic at room

temperature, not in the fridge.

43

I, I don't

44

Mark: think a lot of people know

that garlic is a dried food product.

45

Mm-hmm.

46

It is dried.

47

And you talk about that for a second.

48

Well,

49

Bruce: Gar, when garlic comes outta the

ground as fresh garlic, it's very wet,

50

very pungent, and it has to dry out.

51

The husks have to dry out.

52

The cloves shrink a little bit.

53

Mm.

54

I mean, they're not dried

like gradable dried.

55

No, but they are, they shrink, they

condense, they get dried and is the

56

real term, even though they're not.

57

You know desiccated,

58

Mark: right?

59

Bruce: They're not like dried oregano,

60

Mark: but

61

Bruce: is a dry, you have

to hang it and dry it.

62

Yeah.

63

My friend Rich has a beautiful garden.

64

He grows so much stuff and he grows

like hundreds and hundreds of garlic

65

bulbs, and every spring and early summer

he comes over and he brings me these.

66

Beautiful braids as he's tied up of

garlic bulbs and I hang them in my

67

kitchen and cut them off as I need them.

68

True.

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All

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Mark: winter long.

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True.

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He also hangs onions.

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Yep.

74

Right.

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I don't think a lot of people

know that onions have to be

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hung for a while and dried out.

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I mean, you can't eat them

right outta the ground.

78

You can't eat raw garlic too, or raw.

79

You can't eat fresh garlic too.

80

But um, it's best to let it dry.

81

It concentrates the flavor.

82

There's a whole

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Bruce: reason for this.

84

And garlic right outta the ground

also can cause stomach distress.

85

So there are chemicals in that that.

86

Break apart that you really don't

want to eat too much of when they're

87

first fresh outta the ground.

88

Not too much.

89

I mean, you can eat fresh garlic,

but you shouldn't eat a ton of it.

90

But let me say, don't keep it unlike

your window sill on a sunny kitchen.

91

No, because then your

garlic looks gonna sprout.

92

It's gonna think it's time to grow, right?

93

Keep it hanging where the sun don't shine.

94

Mark: If you buy garlic in a jar

that is pre peeled, that should go in

95

the fridge or pre minced even worse.

96

Yeah.

97

Garlic, as they call it,

garlic should definitely go in

98

the fridge once you open it.

99

Okay, that's our one minute cooking tip.

100

Um, before we get to the main part of this

podcast, let me say that it'd be great if

101

you could rate and like this podcast if

you give it a review that's even better,

102

and subscribe so you don't miss a single

episode of cooking with Bruce and Mark.

103

Okay, up next, what we've learned.

104

Now that we're publishing

our 37th cookbook,

105

Bruce: I learned how exhausting

it is that, I don't know, maybe

106

it's, I'm getting older and

the books are getting longer.

107

Mm-hmm.

108

So it's like, shouldn't it

have gone the other way?

109

Shouldn't the books be getting

shorter as I get older, but

110

they're getting longer and bigger.

111

Mark (2): Our agent always.

112

Says about publishing that every year

we get older and they get younger, they

113

'cause they get fired and a younger

person comes in and takes their place.

114

So, oh, it is

115

Bruce: true when we

were younger as authors.

116

Our publishers and everyone who

worked at the publishing house

117

was like our age that we are now.

118

Or older.

119

Or older as we are now.

120

Yeah.

121

Yeah.

122

And now it's flipped.

123

Here we are at our age being the

writers and our publisher and all the

124

people working there are the age we

were when we published our first book.

125

Mark: Right.

126

They're all at 40 or under.

127

Yeah.

128

Which is really wild.

129

So here's some of the things we've learned

about this cookbook career, and this is

130

not about cookbooks in particular, but I

should say that this seems really funny.

131

We learned to not give up on the dream.

132

Mm-hmm.

133

We wanted to write cookbooks.

134

When we first got together, Bruce and

I did, Bruce had published a drink book

135

with Clarkson Potter, an imprint of

Random House, and then he kept trying to

136

publish books and nothing ever happened.

137

And then I got involved

and we must have written.

138

I can't even tell you.

139

30, 40 proposals for cookbooks.

140

We kept trying to sell a book.

141

Mm-hmm.

142

And we just kept at it.

143

And I think a lot of people that

I've met in my life who have tried

144

to get into publishing, have written

something, submitted it, gotten

145

a rejection, and then never done.

146

Another thing

147

Bruce: I wanna say, this goes for.

148

Any creative career, not giving

up on what you really want.

149

Shit, when we go out to a restaurant

and if we start talking to the server

150

and they say they're really an actor

or a dancer, my first question is

151

always, where are you taking class?

152

You know?

153

'cause clearly you're not in a show

'cause you're in the restaurant, right?

154

Okay, so where are you taking class?

155

Where are you dancing?

156

Where are you acting?

157

If you're not doing that, then you're

not an actor, you are a waiter.

158

So when we said to people, well,

we want to write cookbooks.

159

The answer is, well, what

are you doing about it?

160

Endlessly writing cookbook

proposals endlessly.

161

Trying endlessly.

162

I've got an agent.

163

We are working on it.

164

We are always writing.

165

Mark: I mean, really, honestly,

we cranked out for about a

166

year and a half, two years.

167

Yeah, we cranked that proposal

after proposal after proposal

168

for various cookbook ideas.

169

Nothing came of it, but we just

wouldn't take no for an answer.

170

I

171

Bruce: will say that.

172

It got to a point where I

did almost give up on this.

173

You did.

174

And we were running out of money and

two years of this, we were, I had

175

been an advertising creative director

before this future year, Anna.

176

I mean,

177

Mark (2): honestly, we were

counting Nichols at this point.

178

Mm-hmm.

179

Bruce: And I had left my last

advertising job before I met

180

Mark when my book came out.

181

And now it was like, I

need to go back to work.

182

So I did.

183

I actually got a job as a creative

director again at a small ad agency,

184

and the day I accepted that job.

185

Our agent called and said

she had a book offer for us.

186

Yep.

187

So it was an interesting

moment, and we did both.

188

I kept the job and the book,

and we did it all together.

189

Well, we needed a

190

Mark: few more nickels even

as we were writing that book.

191

Yeah.

192

So fortunately you kept that job, but I

should also say that we've learned that

193

you have to be realistic about this dream.

194

Whatever your dream is in.

195

You do have to really

be realistic about it.

196

You can't just be a cockeyed

optimist to quote South Pacific.

197

You have to be, uh, realistic about it.

198

So, you know, I can tell you over the

years we have written books that we

199

might not otherwise have written mm-hmm.

200

On our own, because the

publisher have has that.

201

I have said we want this book.

202

Yep.

203

And so we have written, I, I would say

that when we jumped from Rodale to.

204

Uh, Clarkson Potter to Random House.

205

Mm-hmm.

206

Together years later, I don't think

either of us wanted to write a slow

207

cooker book, but Random House wanted

us to write a big slow cooker book.

208

Yeah.

209

And we did.

210

We threw ourself at it.

211

Bruce: It was nothing I would've.

212

Ever thought I wanted to do it.

213

And it took me a while to figure out

how to make food in them really good.

214

And in the end, we did a book

that was so full of recipes that

215

were delicious and so successful.

216

We sold out on QVC and that

book became a bestseller, right?

217

So be realistic.

218

Sometimes you're gonna do

things you don't want to do,

219

but you're gonna do them anyway.

220

Take the role you don't want as an actor.

221

Work backstage as a dancer.

222

Do what you have to do

to get in that theater.

223

Be part of your industry.

224

I think

225

Mark: Old Cold Canning is a grand example

of this because we met with our publisher,

226

uh, before, this is a year and a half ago

before we even started on cold canning,

227

and we were talking about what our

next book would be and he said, I would

228

really like a canning book in my list.

229

So we went away and we thought about

it and we saw a billion canning books

230

of for ball canning and all the.

231

Big giant bestsellers, the homesteading

books and all this kind of stuff.

232

And we were like, well, how

can we compete in that market?

233

And we tossed it around between us

enough that we came back to him with this

234

idea of cold canning, canning without

a canner where you just put it in the

235

fridge or the freezer and for storage.

236

And he loved it and bought the book.

237

So it, that isn't an idea

that Bruce and I generated.

238

It's an idea actually that it

began with him and then morphed.

239

To by us.

240

I will

241

Bruce: say that unlike the slow cooker

book, though, it resonated with us

242

because I had been making jams and jellies

and pickles and canning the, you know,

243

with processing for years and years.

244

So at least when he brought

that up, it was something

245

that resonated and excited us.

246

Yes.

247

So it wasn't a hard stretch to

say, Ooh, let's figure this out.

248

Mark: Yes, that's right.

249

And I think that that's been, you know,

largely what a lot of the things we've

250

done in our career, and not only the

books we wrote, but the books that we

251

fixed for other people, they're not

necessarily books we would've touched.

252

We, over the years, have fixed and even

written celebrities books and, um, some of

253

them we would never have touched before.

254

I can't talk much about them.

255

Well, some of them confidentiality

agreements, but we would

256

Bruce: never have written Dr.

257

Phil's diet.

258

Oh, there's one without

259

Mark: a confidentiality agreement.

260

Bruce: Ew.

261

It was not a good experience

working with a celebrity like

262

that who was so full of himself.

263

No, it was terrible experience.

264

No, it was not a good experience.

265

The book was great.

266

We did a great job on the book,

but it wasn't a good experience.

267

So I

268

Mark: think we've also discovered

that over the years that food is

269

very personal and it's very divisive.

270

Mm-hmm.

271

And when you're a food writer and

you write a book or you write recipes

272

and then you tell someone about it.

273

Sometimes you get the idea response

of oh, or Wow or that kind of

274

thing, but you get a lot of ew.

275

And um, that is a really interesting

problem for a creative because I

276

don't think a lot of people who

dance or sing or write novels, I

277

don't think they often get the.

278

Ew factor from it, right?

279

I mean, somebody might write a

nasty review online of a novel.

280

Well, that's refuse, but

gently not to your face.

281

Mm-hmm.

282

I've never seen somebody at all

the book events we've ever been

283

to with novelists sitting around.

284

I remember seeing somebody come up to a

novelist and go, I really hated your book.

285

Bruce: No, it's about food.

286

It's 'cause it's about food.

287

If someone says they dance with a certain

dance company and you don't like that

288

kind of dance, you're not gonna go ew.

289

Right.

290

But if you Exactly.

291

If you were to say to someone you're

writing a book about, I don't know,

292

casseroles, and they had a terrible

experience with casseroles as a kid,

293

they're gonna go, Ew, because it's food.

294

And food triggers all of these

295

Mark: emotions.

296

And I think one of the big changes that

has happened in all these years of writing

297

cookbooks for us is that cookbooks have

gone, and I'm gonna use weird words

298

here, but they have gone from content.

299

Based to vibe based.

300

I explained that.

301

Okay.

302

So when we started writing cookbooks,

cookbooks were compendiums of recipes.

303

So you get a book and the whole

point of it was that it was all this

304

giant encyclopedic list of recipes.

305

But now a cookbook is as much about

its design and it's vibe and it.

306

Feel right, the current word, the

style vibe, that it gives you a certain

307

feeling, a certain emotional landscape.

308

You look at it and you

think certain things.

309

I think that one of the things that's

changed huge over our career is

310

this shift toward vibe based books.

311

It's really bizarre, uh, for

people who came up in the era

312

of like the joy of cooking.

313

When you have these books or you

know, the big Julia Child mastering

314

the Art of French cooking that are.

315

Encyclopedias.

316

Bruce: Well, you know who did that?

317

I mean, that was Martha Stewart.

318

She did that single handedly.

319

She

320

Mark: was one of the people

who started the vibe trend.

321

Yep.

322

Bruce: She did that with

her book Entertaining.

323

It was all about, oh, it's not

just that I'm doing a clam bake.

324

I'm doing a clam bake at my beach house.

325

Right.

326

And these.

327

This is the way I should decorate

it, and this is the music that should

328

be played and the drinks served.

329

It was a lifestyle.

330

She turned content into lifestyle, and she

331

Mark: also turned herself, I mean herself,

former Wall Street Trader and all that.

332

She was into this, um, to use the current

word, tra wife into the traditional wife.

333

She turned herself into a character

in the same way that Paul Rubins

334

turned himself into Peewee Herman.

335

Mm.

336

There's this way that especially in

the late eighties and early nineties,

337

people were creating characters.

338

And the characters were actually in

front of them in terms of the fame.

339

And I would argue that Martha Stewart

was a character of Martha Stewart.

340

Oh

341

Bruce: yeah.

342

That wasn't really who she was.

343

No,

344

Mark: not

345

Bruce: at all.

346

But she did something else with books.

347

She's the one who started

the trend for photography.

348

She did.

349

'cause before then.

350

Cookbooks didn't have photography, or if

they did, they were very few pictures.

351

That's usually, it was just on the cover.

352

Our first 13 books that we published had

353

Mark: no photos and, and that's none.

354

Sorry.

355

I was gonna say, and that's

part of the vibe thing.

356

Yeah.

357

Photos are the prime way that vibe gets.

358

Uh, communicated when you flipped

your book in a bookstore as if you do

359

this anymore, as if anyone goes to a

bookstore and flips through a book.

360

Um, I went to Barnes and Noble the

other day and, uh, I don't know, it

361

seemed like a greeting card store to me.

362

Mm-hmm.

363

But anyway, like anybody goes to a

bookstore and flips through books, but,

364

um, uh, when you do, you're looking at the

pictures, you're not reading the recipes.

365

Sara, you're getting this

vibe sense outta the book.

366

And

367

Bruce: you can't have a book

without photography these days.

368

So when you make a book proposal

and you're trying to sell a book,

369

we have to even put in there how

many photos we think the book should

370

have to really get the vibe going.

371

Right.

372

And our books tend to get more.

373

And more and more photos in them

374

Mark: and, and that's also part

of this trend over the years of

375

that, we've published 37 books that

recipes have shifted and nobody

376

really wants to know the how.

377

This is really interesting.

378

I think when, when we got into, I mean

people still wanna know the how, 'cause

379

they wanna see the recipe, but when we

got into writing cookbooks, the head

380

note, that is the note above the recipe.

381

The head note was all about the how.

382

Well make sure that your temperature

of your custard is blah, blah, blah.

383

Was all the tips as you're

going through the recipe,

384

right, of how to make it better.

385

Now that has all changed and the head

notes to recipes are all about why.

386

Mm-hmm.

387

Why should you make this recipe?

388

Why is this a good recipe?

389

Why does this recipe beat other recipes

for, I don't know, blueberry preserves?

390

Mm-hmm.

391

And that change, it may sound

subtle to you, but it is.

392

Huge in terms of how we

approach books because

393

Bruce: it's part of the whole

pitching a book idea to our

394

publisher in the first place.

395

Right.

396

Not only why this recipe, why this book?

397

Right, right.

398

Why should somebody buy this book?

399

The thing we always hate to

hear from our publisher is.

400

Your book is the answer to a question

401

Mark: nobody's asked.

402

Yeah, that's his, that's his constant

comment is that a book has to answer a

403

question that people are actually asking.

404

Mm-hmm.

405

And so, uh, this is why Google

Trends searches are really important.

406

Google keyword searches are really

important to sell a book because, uh,

407

the people, he wants people to see an

answer to a question they're asking.

408

I, I should say that when we first got

into this business, uh, we wrote the

409

ultimate candy book and we turned it in.

410

This is.

411

2000, we turned it in.

412

Mm-hmm.

413

And, um, the head notes were full

of stories about Bruce's, uh,

414

relationship with Kandy as a kid.

415

His grandmothers going to candy stores.

416

The head notes were all full of hiding

417

Bruce: it under my

418

Mark: bed.

419

Yeah.

420

Rotting my teeth out.

421

All bits about.

422

Candy from his childhood, and that book

was kicked back and we had to rewrite

423

it because the publisher had a strong

dictum at Harper Collins that no personal

424

information can ever appear in a recipe.

425

So a recipe had to almost be

like a science experiment.

426

It had to be.

427

Clean and objective.

428

These days there was no vibe, right?

429

No.

430

These days, what everybody seems to

want is personal information like,

431

oh, Bruce made me this the other

night for dinner, and la da da da.

432

People seem to want the story.

433

Now I can argue, and this is bigger

than this podcast, I can argue that

434

part of why we were told to take.

435

Out personal material is the fear

436

But I think it was also a

part of a general trend.

437

A lot of those books

made a heater's books.

438

They don't include, I made a heater

making this and how she made it.

439

Mm-hmm.

440

Now she found this recipe.

441

Mm-hmm.

442

And yada, yada, yada.

443

It's all about how to make this right.

444

The tips to make these cookies right.

445

Bruce: But she did have this

interesting thing going on in her books.

446

A lot of her recipe titles.

447

Were sort of personal and

no one knew what they meant.

448

Yeah.

449

Like 22nd floor blondies.

450

'cause some woman in her condo in Florida

on the 22nd floor gave her this recipe.

451

Mark: Yeah.

452

Bruce: So it's like, what,

what a 22nd floor blondies.

453

But,

454

Mark: but it still, her

head notes were not.

455

Very personal or I think

about Marcella Hasan.

456

I mean, yes.

457

Did you know about Venetian cooking

and Marcella Hasan and her experience?

458

Maybe you knew, maybe you knew

about her experience in the

459

war, but maybe, maybe not.

460

No.

461

Um, and it was a, it was a whole.

462

Different vibe to the Cook Bowl.

463

Well, in a vibe, it was this

idea that a recipe's supposed

464

to be something objective.

465

This is the best way to make roast land.

466

I still think that over the years we

have discovered that US citizens are

467

not afraid of metric measurements.

468

Bruce: Not anymore.

469

They were, it was terrified of it

were they were, oh my goodness.

470

It meant you were communist, but

now people are weighing their flour.

471

Mm-hmm.

472

Weighing their sugar.

473

Mm-hmm.

474

Mark: Mm-hmm.

475

Bruce: You know, sugar's

one thing, this is

476

Mark: particularly a millennial and

Gen Z thing, they are not afraid

477

of the metric measurements when

478

Bruce: it comes to cooking some things.

479

Weighing is not that

crucial, in my opinion.

480

If I am pouring oil into a wok to stir fry

a dish, I'm not gonna measure out or weigh

481

my oil by the milliliter or the gram.

482

It's not that important.

483

Right?

484

But if I'm baking bread, I am so

weighing that flour because four of us.

485

In this house can take up a measuring

cup, dip it into that pot of flour,

486

and each come out with a different

weight of flour for that one dip.

487

Mark: Yeah.

488

Yeah.

489

I mean, in cold canning.

490

Uh, we put all the ingredients in both,

um, volume amounts, like a cup and

491

a tablespoon, but we also have every

single ingredient in a metric amount,

492

15 milliliters, 50 grams, 190 grams.

493

And that's because people are not afraid

of the metric measurements anymore.

494

Mm-hmm.

495

Many people do have kitchen scales, and it

is a far more accurate way, particularly

496

when you deal with things like sugar,

where the grind of sugar in North

497

America, what we call granulated white

sugar, is different than castor sugar.

498

In the uk the grind is different.

499

So you really have to buy the

weight of the sugar involved

500

to make the recipe work.

501

Bruce: Absolutely.

502

Because you're canning, right?

503

You're preserving, so

you want your ratios.

504

Sugar and vinegar and salt

and all of that to be precise.

505

So it comes out and it stays fresh.

506

Mark: Right, exactly.

507

And so what's the most important

thing about this career?

508

Bruce: Oh, keep things new.

509

Keep things fresh.

510

Yeah.

511

Keep things exciting.

512

Yeah, absolutely.

513

Which is funny because for years.

514

Like we did instant pop books.

515

Right?

516

Right.

517

And so we did four instant

pop books in a row.

518

It's so hard to keep that fresh and new.

519

Oh my gosh, that's so crazy.

520

And we were desperate

to do something else.

521

And the publishers, no,

your books are successful.

522

Let's do another one.

523

Mark: The the worst was writing what?

524

A 350 recipe instant pop book.

525

And then having our publisher say, I

want another 350 recipe to follow it.

526

To follow it.

527

And I was like, oh my gosh, how are we?

528

We thought in 350

recipes, we had killed it.

529

We thought we had done everything you

could do in an instant pot and now

530

we gotta do it again with new things.

531

It was an insane, daunting task.

532

It was

533

Bruce: hard to stay fresh and exciting and

new, but we did, and we made a really good

534

book that was new, but keep things new.

535

Change your style,

change what you're doing.

536

Learn a new language.

537

Learn a new dance step.

538

Yeah.

539

Yeah.

540

Take up a new instrument.

541

Yeah.

542

Walk a different

543

Mark: path to the store tomorrow.

544

Yeah.

545

Yeah.

546

It's really important, especially

as you age, because as you probably

547

know, um, your memory is encoding

where you go, let's say, and it's

548

holding those memories sacrosanct.

549

So this is why you can drive

down the street and not realize

550

you have driven down that.

551

Street because you've driven down it

so many times that you get home to

552

your driveway and you're like, wait a

minute, I don't even remember driving on

553

the freeway or on the surface streets.

554

Mm-hmm.

555

To my house.

556

And that's because you're not actually

registering it anymore in memory.

557

Your memory is holding that.

558

And so what your census are

picking up are not necessarily

559

going into your hippocampus and

into your memory at that point.

560

You're just, um, you know, we

would say doing it by rote,

561

but you're, you're sensing it.

562

Mm-hmm.

563

You know what you're driving down.

564

While you're doing it, but it's

not being laid down as a memory.

565

So as you get older, this more

and more happens and you need

566

to go different directions.

567

Mm-hmm.

568

And you need to take different,

uh, approaches to life and you

569

need to watch different shows, and

you need to read different books.

570

And you need to read, eat different foods.

571

Mark (2): Absolutely.

572

Mark: Because it's the only way you

can keep from petrifying as you age.

573

And it's the truth of

a creative career too.

574

Right.

575

You

576

Bruce: gotta keep moving.

577

You do have to keep me.

578

We watched.

579

You did lose

580

Mark: it.

581

Watched a fabulous documentary last night.

582

It's only 30 minutes long on Netflix.

583

About the only woman in the orchestra.

584

That's the name of the documentary.

585

It's about this woman who was

the first woman who got a seat

586

in the New York Philharmonic.

587

She played the double

588

Bruce: bass, actually, wasn't it

called The only girl in the orchestra?

589

Maybe The only girl at the time.

590

She was the girl.

591

Okay.

592

And back when she got in.

593

People like Zubin Meda, who was then at

the La Philharmonic were saying women

594

have no place in the Philharmonic.

595

Mark: That's right.

596

Bruce: And that by the time they

reached 60, they're no good anymore.

597

While men are still good as musicians.

598

Right.

599

It's

600

Mark: horrifying.

601

So it was this whole thing about her, and

it was basically about her retiring at

602

like 87 or 89 or something like that, 80.

603

From the New York Philharmonic.

604

And what was interesting to me about

that, she was moving out of her New

605

York apartment into a smaller apartment.

606

And you know, I mean she had these

four, um, antique double bases.

607

So one, one was made in

the 17 hundreds, right?

608

Mm-hmm.

609

Bruce: And the Steinway Grand, right?

610

It was,

611

Mark: she was a huge apartment, right?

612

And she was moving to

a smaller place, but.

613

She was not stopping

teaching new students at 89.

614

She had a whole coterie of double

base students who came from all

615

over the world to study with her,

616

Bruce: and she taught group

classes at the Manhattan School

617

of Music, and she just kept.

618

Ongoing.

619

Mark: That's right.

620

Even beyond retiring from

the New York Philharmonic.

621

So it was really fascinating.

622

She also talked about how she finally got

to go to concerts instead of having to

623

play the concerts, she was actually going

and sitting and listening to the music,

624

which is really a fascinating thing.

625

Um, check out the documentary.

626

The only Girl in the orchestra,

only about 30 minutes long.

627

It's really fascinating.

628

Okay.

629

That's what we've learned

over the years in writing.

630

37 cookbooks, some advice, maybe

things that we faltered on or that

631

we've learned and gotten better at.

632

It's all part of the process, I

guess, of being human, of learning

633

and learning and learning and

adapting, and adapting and adapting.

634

Before we get to the last segment of

this podcast, let me say that there is

635

a TikTok channel called Cooking with

Bruce and Mark, and on there you can

636

find all sorts of videos of, um, making.

637

Food, talking to each other, talking

about our relationship, how we met,

638

all kinds of, uh, stuff is on there.

639

We also have a Facebook group cooking

with Bruce and Mark, and of course we have

640

our own Instagram and Facebook feeds, and

I have my own Blue Sky feed, so you can

641

connect with us in all sorts of places.

642

Okay.

643

As these traditional, the final

segment of this podcast, what's

644

making us happy in food this week?

645

Bruce: As often For me,

it's a kind of melon.

646

I love these hammi melons, HAMI.

647

It's a Korean melon.

648

It looks a little like cantaloupe,

but it's not quite as sweet

649

and it's got the crunchy.

650

It's not nearly as sweet.

651

No, it has a crunchy texture of cucumber.

652

So it is so.

653

Freshing and Delicious and Mars.

654

Them.

655

I, I know.

656

I don't

657

Mark: hate them.

658

I just don't like them

659

Bruce: because

660

Mark: they are very vegetal.

661

Bruce: Mm.

662

I love them.

663

It like,

664

Mark: and it is like eating a cold

cucumber, but sweeter but orange.

665

Bruce: Mm-hmm.

666

With a slight hint, hint

of cantaloupe flavor.

667

Mark: Yeah.

668

It's not my favorite.

669

I like the gushy soft,

super sweet cantaloupe.

670

'cause that's what I grew up

with, so that's what I like.

671

But, um, trying something new.

672

Remember that's what we said.

673

Well, I have tried it

and, uh, I don't like it.

674

So there you go.

675

Uh, I, I went outside once

and it scared me so I sign.

676

Uh, so, uh, there you go.

677

Um, I guess what's making me

happy in food this week is.

678

We had friends over for dinner

this last weekend and Bruce

679

slow roasted a leg of goat.

680

And if you don't know, we wrote

the first ever goat cookbook all

681

about goat meat, milk and cheese.

682

Several years ago.

683

I think that book is still out there.

684

Mm-hmm.

685

And um, it was the first ever

all goat book written and

686

published in North America.

687

And we, uh, became very fond of goat.

688

Bruce sources goat from a local farm,

so he slow roasted this leg and it

689

was really tender and delicious.

690

We had it with Tahini sauce and Pita, and

a very simple Palestinian tomato stew.

691

He.

692

It was a really nice fine meal and we sat

at the table till like after 11 o'clock.

693

Mm-hmm.

694

It was really nice talking.

695

Yeah.

696

Yeah.

697

It was really nice and

it was a beautiful thing.

698

How long did you roast that thing For?

699

Six hours.

700

Yeah.

701

See, a long, long time.

702

I gave it.

703

I don't have the patience to

get through a podcast, so Okay.

704

Bruce: I gave it.

705

Palestinian Rub.

706

I used raw hannu and garlic and olive oil.

707

What is raw?

708

Mark (2): Han

709

Bruce: Hannu is a blend of spices.

710

It means top of the shop, so every

shop in the Middle East, it's

711

gonna have their own version of

it, but it's Middle Eastern spices.

712

I mixed it with garlic and olive oil.

713

I put some sumac in for sourness and

some salt, and I rubbed that in and

714

then I shoved it in a covered casserole.

715

That's great.

716

About six hours

717

Mark (2): and kept it out on the grill

so it didn't heat up the kitchen.

718

Mm-hmm.

719

Which was also really great

720

Mark: to keep it on a low grill,

a slow grill, as they say,

721

and not heat up the kitchen.

722

Okay.

723

That's the podcast for this week.

724

Thanks for joining us.

725

Thanks for being a part of this journey.

726

We appreciate your being

with us and we most.

727

Appreciate that you connect

with us in some way,

728

Bruce: and I've said this

before, I'm gonna say it again.

729

No AI here on cooking of Bruce and Mark.

730

You know that the internet is full of ai.

731

You don't know what's real and what's not.

732

Videos, podcasts, everything

you see, you will always get.

733

Bruce and Mark here on

cooking of Bruce and Mark.

734

No Ai.