Elliot Kay is the founder of The Speaker Awards, a seven-time author, and one of the most connected people in the UK speaking industry. In this conversation, John and Elliot dig into what's actually changing in how professional speakers get hired, and why most speakers are still playing by rules that no longer apply.

Heads up: entries for The Speaker Awards 2026 close 30 April. If you're a fee-paid speaker and you're on the fence, the deadline is a week away. Full details at thespeakerawards.com.

What you'll take away:

• Why the era of the "information speaker" is over, and what's replacing it
• The three things bookers now demand: problem clarity, implementable change, and proof of ROI
• Why positioning (and repositioning) is the single biggest lever most speakers never pull
• The "Watch Me Go" mentality: a non-aggressive, slightly defiant attitude that changes how speakers show up
• Why imperfection is currency post-pandemic, and slick performers are losing ground
• Chase budgets, not crowds: why twelve people in a boardroom often pays more than a hundred at a conference
• What The Speaker Awards process actually does for entrants (hint: the clarity matters more than the trophy)
• The pipeline reality: presence, partnerships, referrals, and why the bookers who hire you rarely comment on your posts

FAQs from this episode

What do corporate bookers actually want from professional speakers in 2026?

According to Speaker Awards founder Elliot Kay and host John Ball, bookers now prioritise three things: absolute clarity on the problem the speaker solves, implementable takeaways the audience will actually use, and demonstrable return on investment. The era of the "information speaker" is over because information is now freely available through AI. Speakers who can prove behavioural change after their talks are the ones getting rebooked and referred.

Is the professional speaking industry declining because of AI?

No. Both Elliot Kay and John Ball argue the opposite. As AI-generated content floods digital channels, audiences are craving real human connection more than ever. Live events are increasing in demand, not decreasing. The skills that matter are shifting from information delivery to authentic presence, emotional connection, and provable impact. Speakers who position themselves around outcomes rather than information are well-placed to benefit.

What is the single biggest mistake professional speakers make?

Positioning. Elliot Kay argues that if the positioning is wrong, nothing else will work. The second biggest mistake is failing to reposition over time. Speakers who used to get booked and no longer do have usually not updated their positioning, showreel, or brand in three or more years. The market moves. Speakers who don't move with it become irrelevant.

Should professional speakers chase bigger audiences or bigger budgets?

Elliot Kay's direct advice: chase budgets, not crowds. Twelve people in a high-level boardroom often pay significantly more than a hundred people at a conference. Fee per head is rarely correlated with audience size. Speakers optimising for audience count are optimising for the wrong metric.

What does the Speaker Awards process give entrants beyond recognition?

The process itself forces speakers to clarify who they are, what they stand for, and the problem they solve. Elliot Kay describes this as "shedding the fluff." Entrants consistently report that the preparation and judging process sharpens their positioning in ways that change subsequent fee conversations, regardless of whether they win.

When are the Speaker Awards 2026, and how do speakers enter?

Entries close 30 April 2026. The gala takes place on 3 July 2026 at the Leonardo Hotel, St Paul's, London. Entry is £80, with an administration fee, and speakers are permitted up to three categories. Full entry details are at thespeakerawards.com.

About The Speaker Awards:

• 19 independent judges across categories, including bureau heads, agents, PSA past presidents
• £80 admin fee to enter, up to three categories
• Gala on 3 July 2026 at the Leonardo Hotel, St Paul's, London
• Entry deadline: 30 April 2026

Find Elliot: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elliot-kay/

The Speaker Awards: thespeakerawards.com

CHAPTERS

00:00 Chase Budgets Not Crowds

00:38 Meet Elliot Kay

02:02 Speaker Awards Explained

03:37 Why Enter Awards

06:08 Judges Bureaus Credibility

08:27 Community Over Egos

10:08 How To Enter Deadline

12:17 What Gets You Booked Now

14:20 Elliots Speaking Origin Story

16:40 Humour Connection On Stage

20:07 Information Speakers Are Done

21:23 New Keynote Watch Me Go

23:33 Authenticity Beats Slickness

27:34 Speaker Mistakes Positioning

31:14 Building a Booking Pipeline

35:21 Advice for More Bookings

38:38 AI and Live Events Future

40:20 Where to Find Elliot

41:24 Wrap Up and Next Episode

Visit https://strategic-speaker.scoreapp.com to take the 2-minute Strategic Speaking Business Audit and find out what's blocking you from getting more bookings, re-bookings, referrals and bigger fees. There's a special surprise gift for everyone who completes the quiz.

Want to get coached for free on the show? Fill in the form https://forms.gle/mo4xYkEiCjqtz9yP6, and if we think your challenge could help others, we'll invite you on.

For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening. Rating the show 5* on Spotify helps their algo recommend the show, so please take a moment to follow the show and leave a rating.

Chase budgets, not crowds.

2

That's one of the lines from

today's conversation that stalk me.

3

It was great to hear because most

speakers are doing the exact opposite.

4

Bigger stages, bigger audiences,

bigger feeds on social media, all of

5

it optimizing for the wrong metric.

6

The speakers quietly earning the most, are

often talking to rooms of 12 people in a

7

boardroom, not a thousand at a conference.

8

Now, I did say that I'll be

bringing you an episode with

9

Beth Sherman as my next episode.

10

That episode is still coming.

11

I've snuck this one in as it was a bit

of a fast turnaround, and the reason

12

why we'll become apparent very shortly.

13

My guest is Elliot Kay, founder

of the Speaker Awards, seven time

14

author and someone who's seen

what we just talked about play out

15

across hundreds of speaker careers.

16

Now in this conversation, we get

into positioning, ROI, why the

17

Information speaker Age is over, and

what actually gets you booked now?

18

So a quick note, the Speaker

19

close in the 30th of April.

20

Hence, the fast turnaround.

21

We are covering this episode.

22

What the process gives you, why

you might want to get yourself to

23

the speaker Awards, and all the

details are at thespeakerrewards.com.

24

but for now, let's get into it.

25

I am very happy to, welcome to the

Professional speaking podcast, Elliot Kay

26

Elliot.

27

is been a real delight to connect with

you, and I'm so happy that we were

28

able to get things set up super quick.

29

Like you've been on my list for such a

long time, and then I thought, let's,

30

see if we can get Elliot on the show.

31

And, and I invited you and

the next day we're chatting.

32

It's pretty fantastic.

33

Elliot Kay: The speed of

technology, eh, the speed.

34

John: a wonderful thing and one of

the main reasons, something I've

35

been seeing, 'cause I'm on your email

list, something I've been think a

36

lot lately is the speaker awards.

37

And I think a lot of people who listen

to this show may not heard about it.

38

So can tell us a little bit about

what that is and who it's for and why

39

people might want to find out about it.

40

Elliot Kay: Well, Thank you,

first of all for having me.

41

the Speaker Award was born five years ago.

42

We're coming into year five, and

really it's about elevating and,

43

helping the industry have a standard.

44

Right?

45

One of the best ways you create a

standard from industry is for awards,

46

and it's for professional speakers.

47

It's for people that make a living from

speaking, If you are not regularly booked,

48

but still charge a fee, it's for you.

49

If you're regularly

booked, you charge a fee.

50

It's for you.

51

If you charge a high

fee, it's for you, right?

52

and the way it works is we have 19 judges.

53

We have various categories,

three judges per category.

54

you submit your video footage,

you know, up to five minutes,

55

unless it's the telex category.

56

Then it goes in front of a panel.

57

It's an independent panel.

58

I'm not involved in the panel.

59

I am not a judge.

60

I cannot influence nor sway anything.

61

and then what happens after

that is if they are chosen to

62

shortlist, they're invited, of

course to come attend GAL in London.

63

We set it up because I

felt that there was a gap.

64

Where people weren't getting the spotlight

where they should have, or there was no

65

public body that was giving awards out.

66

There were membership bodies,

they were doing their own awards,

67

but there was nothing public.

68

And that's why I set them

up the speaker awards.

69

And that was, November

22 was the first one.

70

And here we are year five,

July the third is the next one.

71

And that's really what that's about.

72

amazing.

73

John: I love that you're doing this.

74

I think the only thing I'd ever

really seen for awards for speakers

75

before was like the Toastmasters World

Championship, and that was kind of it.

76

Like, is that it?

77

Is that, Yeah.

78

So it's really nice

that you're doing this.

79

what, what value or benefit is,

is there in being in the awards

80

though, for professional speakers

other than a bit of recognition?

81

Elliot Kay: Absolutely.

82

Yeah.

83

Great question.

84

So obviously recognition is one, but.

85

Here's, the feedback we've been getting

and I've kind of been sharing a lot

86

about, number one, the process itself.

87

It's a very robust process, so a lot

of professional speakers get absolute

88

clarity on who they are as a speaker.

89

So that helps get rid of the

trimmings or the fluff, so to speak.

90

even really established

speakers find the process.

91

It gets you really dialed in and focused.

92

On, on literally who you are as a speaker.

93

What do you stand for?

94

What's your message?

95

so a lot of speakers

have talked about that.

96

Then obviously when that's the

internal thing, and then once you

97

get through the, the rounds, then

it validates that positioning.

98

So the shortlisting validates

it and then highly commend

99

it, or winning validates that.

100

So I think the whole process

itself, allows you as a

101

professional speaker to really.

102

Almost cleanse or redirect or

refocus who you are as a speaker.

103

And then beyond that you

get the market validation.

104

What we've seen when people have won

or gone through the process is they've

105

seen the conversations change, their

ability to position themselves change.

106

If you're shortlisted or highly

commended or you win again, the

107

conversations change around fees,

book ability, and things like that.

108

So.

109

Look, John, it's, it's not for everyone.

110

Sure.

111

Awards aren't for everyone.

112

We, we don't handcuff people

and force them to enter.

113

but for those who choose to, and we

get some very high caliber, speakers

114

enter, we get bureaus, put people in.

115

it is a guess in a way, an external

validation that, that the market.

116

Right.

117

Appreciates you that they

recognize you, that, yeah.

118

So those are some of the

benefits of entering the awards.

119

And I know it comes with skepticism.

120

I know there's skeptical people out

there and we welcome skepticism.

121

By the

122

John: way, I'm, awards

can be kind of nice.

123

And I think that you mentioned some other.

124

I think benefits that are valuable,

there are a lot of speakers who will

125

have things listed on the profiles,

like award-winning speaker, but you,

126

you don't, like they won table topics at

the last Toastmasters meeting or what.

127

And it could be anything.

128

But this is, at least a little more

credibility, especially given that

129

you've been running this year after year.

130

And from some of the content I've seen you

sending out that you do have people like

131

bookers and bureaus in the room as well.

132

That could be really valuable connection

opportunities for speakers as well.

133

Elliot Kay: Yeah, so we have,

Don from London Speaker Bureau.

134

We have Claire Young who runs

the biggest speaker agency for,

135

putting speakers in schools.

136

We've got a guy in America

this year from campus speakers,

137

a guy called David Stallman.

138

and he places speakers at

University campuses across America.

139

I'm sure there's, Kay Freeman.

140

She runs, she's a speaker agent.

141

I'm sure there's others.

142

I know there are, we have 19 judges.

143

I'm apologize if I did judge

listed and I haven't listed you.

144

I apologize.

145

yeah, and you know, it's interesting

'cause Maria Fni, who's our ambassador,

146

I do, she's been, did you know Aria?

147

Do you know Maria?

148

Yeah.

149

Yeah.

150

So she's our ambassador and she

always said from the word go, she

151

said, you have to, if you want this

award to be taken seriously, you

152

need the bureaus to get involved.

153

You need the agents to

put their name behind it.

154

And now we've done that.

155

It does add a massive

amount of kudos to it.

156

and we even have a a Bookers Choice Award.

157

So those are the, that's a

category that people enter for

158

bureaus to judge their content.

159

so that's a pretty good category.

160

John: Yeah, no, I, And I think also even

just connecting with other speakers from

161

different areas is incredibly valuable.

162

Speakers refer other speakers a lot as

well, and you know, is that referral that.

163

Being known.

164

I think I talk about a lot is how

important it is now to become known.

165

Mm.

166

And these are the kinds of things that

can really give you significant boosts

167

in that kind of factor of credibility.

168

And people having some idea who

you are who might otherwise not.

169

Elliot Kay: Yeah, no, absolutely.

170

And you know, the, the, we've got

the bureaus and the agents, we

171

also have few more PSA presidents.

172

We've had, you know, everybody

in there is, is in the industry.

173

This isn't, you know, people that

are just, oh, I wanna be a judge.

174

They have to bring a

certain amount of expertise.

175

We've got someone who's on the Apprentice

and he's got quite an interesting story

176

'cause he entered the very first year

we did the award and he didn't show up.

177

When I, he actually came through

the awards last year and I

178

was like, why didn't you come?

179

He said, I was too, bro.

180

I couldn't afford the ticket.

181

And now he's a completely,

so it's a real full circle.

182

Now he's come back to be a judge

because he couldn't afford the ticket

183

and now he's come back as a judge.

184

Obviously he's been on the Apprentice

and he goes around training CEOs and

185

high level people now and speaking.

186

So everybody has a their place there.

187

Right.

188

So that's really important.

189

The other thing just

to pick up on John, is.

190

How much there's a sense of

community around the awards.

191

When I set up the awards, part of my

fear was, you know, there's, it's gonna

192

be, the room's gonna be full of egos and

you know, almost gonna be quite catty.

193

But actually none of that transpired.

194

and year on year people come

back because actually people do

195

celebrate each other's success.

196

They are genuinely happy.

197

For other people, of course,

they're disappointed for themselves.

198

But everybody talks about the inclusion,

the diversity in the sense of community

199

that around the speaker awards.

200

And I think that's what

really makes it unique, right?

201

Because we really do like

Akimoto is back yourself, right?

202

And so, and that that goes

throughout and even on the night

203

you stand and Guy, look well done.

204

You've gone for it,

you've backed yourself.

205

Let's celebrate that.

206

And we do see, generally speaking, most

people be happy for the people that win.

207

And that's a really unique thing.

208

To, to, to get, I love that.

209

It makes, in fact, does everything.

210

John: Yeah.

211

I've had, I've been having speakers on

this show for, gosh, at least five years.

212

And, and I have to say for, the

most part, the people I connect with

213

are very generous with their time.

214

They knowledge their information.

215

Mm-hmm.

216

Not so ego-driven, and, and I have

tended to weed out the people who are,

217

but I do think that they're, they're

generally fewer and far between, so

218

I'm very glad to hear that that event

has, has come together nicely for you.

219

But I do tend to feel that the speaking

industry from my, from my experience is.

220

Not most of the people, much like

podcast podcasting world, most of

221

the people are not so ego driven.

222

They're more service driven,

more connection driven.

223

and that's always nice to see, but

of course, you're always gonna get

224

the odd divas, so that's great.

225

I, yeah, I certainly like, like what

you're doing with this and if anyone

226

is interested in being a part of this

speaker rewards, what, what should,

227

Elliot Kay: Well, as this is

being recorded, I know fast thrown

228

John: around

229

Elliot Kay: because I'm coming up.

230

You can do it fast.

231

So there's a week, excuse me,

there's a week to go today.

232

So it's the 23rd, 30th, it closes.

233

What they need to do is

go to speaker woods.com.

234

everything's on there.

235

There's loads of resources.

236

You'll need a video of five minutes if

you're going for one of the categories or

237

eight to 10 minutes for the TEDx category.

238

Just have, your bio ready,

have the stuff ready.

239

Again, we show you how to do it all.

240

there is an admin fee.

241

hands up, there's an admin.

242

It's 80 pounds per category.

243

You can't enter more than three category.

244

Exactly.

245

And by the way, for all the

skeptics out there, the 80 pounds

246

is not to win an award, right.

247

It's to enter the award.

248

and, and the administration

side of running awards.

249

That's all it's for.

250

'cause we always get it.

251

Oh, how much to cost to buy a award?

252

Well, you don't, right.

253

You're not paying to win an award.

254

You are paying to enter the award.

255

That's it.

256

And so I suggest get your

skates on, get involved.

257

You never know where you

could land back yourself.

258

You know, you've got a week

to go and whenever this is

259

released, you know, be in it.

260

And you know, worst case you get nothing.

261

Best case you get shortlisted.

262

Next best case, you get highly

committed who you win and you

263

meet some incredible people.

264

So that's,

265

John: and if anyone listening to

this has missed out on the deadline

266

for this year, there's always gonna

be next year, hopefully, right.

267

Elliot Kay: There is always gonna

be next year, although there might

268

be an announcement coming as to

its location, but So this one is

269

John: gonna be in London though, right?

270

Elliot Kay: So, yes.

271

John: Yeah,

272

Elliot Kay: yeah.

273

3rd of July in London,

Leonard Hotel by St.

274

Paul's.

275

Beautiful scenery, beautiful hotel.

276

So I'm told I'm yet to see it.

277

My team have, my team chose it,

so I am like, this better be good.

278

This better.

279

John: Look forward to seeing some

of their pictures and, and videos

280

from, from that event as well.

281

I'm not gonna be able to attend myself

this year, unfortunately, but, but I

282

will, I will certainly do my best to

get there next year and maybe even,

283

maybe even enter myself in, who knows?

284

that would be cool.

285

Yeah.

286

so I love that Elliot, I know you

do training and stuff as well for

287

people, and you do have like some

connections with, a, and, and experience

288

in the wider speaking industry.

289

and I wonder for you, what what maybe

comes up as being some of the most,

290

relevant areas for speakers to be

paying attention to right now in the

291

industry in terms of getting the bookings

and, and progressing their careers?

292

Elliot Kay: Okay, two

things straight away.

293

One is emphasizing the problem

you're solving as a speaker to

294

the corporates or to your market.

295

And the next, there's a

massive push towards an ROI.

296

So what's the return?

297

On the investment by booking you.

298

And they want data.

299

They want something tangible, right?

300

because of ai, because of information,

companies aren't interested anymore.

301

Of course, if you're an inspirational,

motivational speaker, and that's

302

where you put yourself, that's okay.

303

But what people are really looking for

is, is, The ability to have implementable.

304

So that's why the problem you solve

has to be crystal clear, and that

305

might mean a bit like the process for

the world, shedding some stuff, right?

306

Get very crystal clear

on the problem you solve.

307

Then how are you gonna

demonstrate a return?

308

By sowing that problem, what's gonna

be different Now to begin with?

309

Obviously a lot of speakers

won't have had that yet 'cause

310

they haven't been collecting it.

311

So you can forward front it, as in

this is what you get by booking it.

312

But as you do it more and more.

313

Right.

314

I would suggest you collect the

data, whether that's follow up

315

calls, whether you have a, a way of

measuring that, whether you start

316

to use Slido and you measure people

when they come in and they come out.

317

I mean, whether you put AI up that

films their faces as they go and leave.

318

I mean, there's so many ways these

days, but that's one of the, those

319

are the key shifts I'm seeing in the

industry, especially for paid speaking.

320

Proof of return.

321

And I think that's very worth highlighting

322

John: that.

323

That's really good to know.

324

That's a useful, a useful

pointer as well for you yourself.

325

How,

326

Elliot Kay: so I guess I'm a bit cliched

in the way that, ironically, we were

327

talking about Gemma, that we both know.

328

So the week I met her, I went

to a seminar and I saw a guy on

329

stage and I went, I can do that.

330

And so then I enrolled.

331

In the course the Gemma I was putting

on for speakers, and that's how

332

I got started, and that was 2009.

333

and it's the cliche in the sense I saw

a man on stage and went, I can do that.

334

And then I did, and I went after it.

335

So that's the cliche.

336

It's like, I could do that.

337

sometimes ignorance are bliss and

I didn't quite, I wasn't quite

338

aware on how much goes into it.

339

but that's how I got started.

340

And then, it wasn't a couple years

later we launched what is still kind

341

of going Speaker Express, which has

been going now for over a decade.

342

But has being phased out.

343

Yeah, so I've, I've

done loads of trainings.

344

I became a trainer for that

company for a while as well,

345

so that's how I got started.

346

I can do that.

347

That's how

348

John: I do that.

349

a lot of people think

that, you know, I don't,

350

That was where I probably realized, I

think maybe speaking is something that I

351

might want to do a bit more than training

and, and it was a bit of a journey from

352

there, but, but still something I love.

353

However, I would say getting up to do

standup comedy was something as like

354

watching other people doing it, thinking

I think I could do that, it was just,

355

Elliot Kay: you see, I look her.

356

John: It was just that thing to love.

357

My only worry was, are other people

gonna find the stuff that's in

358

my head that I think is funny?

359

Are other people gonna

think that's funny as well?

360

And that's what I didn't know.

361

That was like the unknown variable for me.

362

It turned out mostly.

363

Yes.

364

So that, that's been,

it's been quite good, but,

365

you know, it's very

much like similar thing.

366

You see, I,

367

Elliot Kay: I can do that.

368

I think I could do that.

369

But when I look at comedian,

they're like, I don't think I can.

370

I don't know.

371

People do sound very funny, but I'm

very kind of funny off the cuff.

372

I'm not sure I could

be deliberately funny.

373

But then again, I've never explored it.

374

But I dunno if I have

a desire to do comedy.

375

'cause even people go, oh,

you should be a comedian.

376

You're so funny.

377

Right.

378

But I think even, I had a comedian

watch me once and he was like,

379

you are really good off the cuff.

380

Then to package that and

take that to become a show.

381

John: Maybe, maybe like those

audience work comedians.

382

But no, for, me, it was on my bucket list.

383

It was something that I

wanted, that I, wanted to do.

384

Oh, wow.

385

Love.

386

Now.

387

It's just something I really enjoy doing

and, and do it once or twice a month.

388

So it's, it's kind of cool.

389

Elliot Kay: Wow.

390

Well that's the key, isn't it?

391

John: Absolutely.

392

But lemme see.

393

When it comes to, to your speaking, I

mean, you are an entertaining speaker.

394

one of the things I often ask people

about on the show is how important

395

that sort of entertainment humor

factor is in being a speaker.

396

From, from your perspective, what, what

would you say, how essential is that?

397

Elliot Kay: First of all, I'm so happy.

398

You think I'm entertaining.

399

Thank you.

400

on the other side, look, I think it's,

it's quite important, obviously it

401

depends what kind of speaker you are.

402

I think your style, I think

there's time to use humor.

403

I think most talks could use

humor even if it's very dark.

404

I think it's quite important.

405

'cause look, the other side of

course, when you asked about

406

speaking is my mind went to how

much people are craving connection.

407

Emotional engagement 'cause people

are growing more and more skeptical

408

online con with online contact.

409

Even videos, people are

skeptical now because of ai.

410

So in the room, the more you can make

people feel smart, smile, move their

411

face, you know, up, down, sideways, in

the way that they're going with you.

412

The stronger, more connected

you'll be as a speaker.

413

So in terms of entertaining,

I I mean, you're not booked

414

for entertainment, right?

415

If you're an entertainer,

that's different.

416

Go on brand's, got talent

or do that kind of world.

417

But when you're a speaker, I

think it's important to have

418

a level of entertainment.

419

It's gotta have a level of humor.

420

It's definitely gotta have a

level of emotional connection.

421

When I've interviewed a lot of the judges

recently for the speaker awards, they all

422

talk about the importance of delivery, of

emotional connection, about authenticity,

423

about not being someone else.

424

Right.

425

And I think when I do my talks, I

always think, how can I make it?

426

Where can I make it entertaining?

427

Where can I be funny, right?

428

I do think of that consciously, and

sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

429

Like sometimes it's tumbleweed.

430

I'm like, okay, you are

that kind of audience.

431

Right?

432

but I think it's very important.

433

I think a lot of, if you wanna

stand out as well, right?

434

Because it is like for every

speaking slot, let's say there

435

are 10 speakers, if not more.

436

The way to stand out is to be really

entertaining, is to be very engaging,

437

is to be very, at times funny or able

to take the audience on a journey.

438

And I think especially in the uk, I

think we can often miss that trick.

439

We, we kind of become very professional

and serious and executive like, and.

440

God, you know, showing up in a

certain way is unprofessional, and

441

I don't think that's true anymore.

442

You know, the pandemic

was a great leveler.

443

It leveled everybody, right?

444

And I think since then there's been

a change, an emergence, and a need

445

to be a different type of speaker,

connected speaker, an authentic speaker,

446

an imperf imperfect speaker, right?

447

People love imperfection.

448

They love it when you get

slightly wrong, you know?

449

Oh, wouldn't that take

away more authority?

450

No.

451

People infect, enhance your

authority 'cause it humanizes you.

452

So I think yeah,

entertainment is, is great.

453

And I think if you look back at

some of the, the speakers that

454

made you feel good and you really

connected with guaranteed they had

455

an element of entertainment in there.

456

John: I, Like a compulsory element, but

I think it's good to have in there, even

457

if it's just a few moments of just even

lightness or smiling sometimes just these,

458

those emotion, it's those emotional shifts

that, that I think are really important

459

and what they call the, the state

changes and the that, take people just

460

from being at one level the whole time.

461

I, I spoke not that long

ago with David Newman.

462

You possibly have encountered

Yeah, you've heard of him.

463

I've

464

Elliot Kay: heard

465

John: of him.

466

And, so that, that show, yeah.

467

That episode is coming soon

for our, for our listener.

468

But, one of the things that he was

saying, and he's definitely very author

469

to on, on this issue as well, but one

of the things he was saying is that the

470

age of the information speaker is over.

471

W is that, Yes.

472

Right.

473

Elliot Kay: A hundred percent.

474

that's what I mean about.

475

the problem you solve and implementable

and ROI, we've got information,

476

we've got information coming out of

every hole you can think of, right?

477

It's just there.

478

That's why when, when they're looking

for a speaker, they want something else.

479

Entertainment is an element.

480

Implementable are in an ROI,

I absolutely agree with that.

481

a hundred percent the information,

those who just stand there, go,

482

here's the five steps, or because.

483

If I'm paying a speaker, right,

five grand, whatever grand right,

484

to come into my company, I just,

I don't want my, my staff or

485

whoever just to feel better, right?

486

I need to know they're gonna do

better, they're gonna be better,

487

they're gonna do something different.

488

And that's why the day, the, the

information speakers of, yeah,

489

John: great answer.

490

And I, I think I'm pretty much on,

How did, first of all, could you share

491

with us what it is you, talk about and

how you came to be talking about that?

492

Elliot Kay: So I spent a lot of times in

the impactful communication space, so I

493

was very much leadership, communication.

494

How do you inspire teams?

495

How do you unite people through language?

496

and I used to use also something called

the 12 archetypes, of, of communication.

497

So that's the different parts of yourself

that you step into as a, as a speaker

498

or communicator to get a message.

499

Message across.

500

I've now involved, so I'm shifting angle

slightly because I'm about to release

501

my seventh book on the 3rd of July.

502

Funny enough.

503

At the summit and the awards.

504

Yeah.

505

And it's called Watch Me Go.

506

It's about mentality and an attitude.

507

You know, you've got the start with

whys, let them, it's kind of in that

508

mold and it's basically the attitude

that served me towards success

509

and growth and, and, and struggle.

510

and that's really what

my new keynote's been.

511

And it's funny 'cause I was talking

to a Maria's podcast recently and it's

512

the most personal one I've ever done.

513

So while I've always been

quite, here's how you.

514

Practically communicate.

515

Here's the steps and here's how

you speak like a leader, right?

516

I'm going, well, here's my stories,

that had the most impactful that

517

I feel are right for audiences.

518

And the idea with them is there's

a massive shift mentally to, to

519

utilize, watch me, watch me go, right?

520

So it's a non permissive, non-aggressive,

slightly defiant attitude.

521

When someone goes, John, you, I

don't think you'll be a comedian.

522

You go watch me right now.

523

I can't promise that.

524

You will be the next Michael

McIntyre, whoever you're inspired

525

by, and do the big rooms, but you'll

land somewhere better as a result.

526

Right?

527

I dunno where that is.

528

And that's what Watch Me's about.

529

So right now that's my

focus is doing the watch me.

530

and I'm not purposely not targeting

a lot of the sort of conferences

531

that I used to 'cause actually.

532

I want to get the, the gigs that, allow

me to share that message of watch me,

533

like let them like start with y and

that's a slightly different audience,

534

but interestingly, since I've gone more

personal, I've become more bookable.

535

So that's quite interesting.

536

So that's what I speak about.

537

So, you know, I,

538

John: it sound, it sounds good and

does definitely sound engaging.

539

Got a lot of connection

coming into that as well.

540

I think the authenticity piece is

probably good news for a lot of us.

541

May be challenging for some others who

thinking, oh, I don't know about that.

542

I just wanna be this like persona

on, on stage rather than myself.

543

But, I do think one of the first

times I ever went to like a personal

544

development training, back in, back

in the early two thousands is about

545

when I got first got into all that.

546

seeing some of the people on

stage, like could be great

547

performers, but it was performance.

548

And very often when you saw them

off stage, they were not like that.

549

They were completely different.

550

Some of them very socially

awkward, some of them.

551

Very prickly.

552

You know, it could be,

anything, anything in between.

553

A handful of them probably were

very authentic and yet now that

554

seems to be, much more essential.

555

And I wonder if like, that has been

one of the key things in that shift

556

in the industry of, you know, the,

like you said, the suspicion of the

557

slickness and the people getting burnt

by stuff now to sort of thinking, well,

558

we want the people who are kind of.

559

Who are walking their talk, who are

genuine, who actually are pretty much

560

the same off stage as they are on it.

561

Elliot Kay: Yeah.

562

I think, again, I think

that the, the pandemic.

563

Contributed to the

desire for authenticity.

564

'cause I, I think also, you know,

while there was this amazing rising

565

people supporting people throughout the

pandemic, there's equally a rising people

566

being conned, and putting on shows.

567

Right.

568

And I think, you know, the personal

development space, we, we both

569

kind of were in for a while.

570

Again, you get these great speakers

who then lead you to buy staff.

571

and some genuinely wanted to help.

572

And again, lots of people got conned

and I think what's happened, I mean,

573

I'm not in that space anymore at all.

574

I kind of completely moved out of that.

575

Yeah.

576

'cause again, I, I brought that, it

didn't sit right with me, a lot of it.

577

And I, I kind of got what it, I got

no regret from being a part of it.

578

I think it's helped me become

who I am, a better person.

579

when I moved into the more

professional getting paid to speak

580

side of things, that's a lot better.

581

A lot easier to kind of, well,

here's 45 minutes of expertise, I'm

582

gonna get paid that I'm not leading

anyone, I'm not tricking anyone.

583

Here's my expertise and

you're paying the for it.

584

It's a fair exchange.

585

Right.

586

So to your point, I think with the

pandemic and everything has gone on

587

and people being stung and they looking

for something real, but, and even with

588

the rise of ai, which we started to

allude to, they want something real.

589

That, that's what I'm saying.

590

Imperfection is currency, right?

591

People want you to kind of mess up

a little bit and you need a little

592

bit, a bit raw, you need to kind

of go, oh, that didn't work then.

593

Alright, let's move on.

594

And people love that moment, right.

595

As long as you're not a liar or

a thief or manipulative, people

596

really appreciate authenticity, the

realness, it actually elevates you.

597

And again, it gets you to stand

out because you're not a cutout,

598

you're not trying to be, you're

not sounding like everyone else.

599

And you know, and I think

that's so important.

600

I think you know, everyone, the

whole, you can only be yourself.

601

Everyone else has taken like

a whole saying, Oscar Wild.

602

Right.

603

I, it is so true as a speaker, like,

stop trying to be another speaker.

604

Be yourself.

605

Now.

606

I know some people need to be braver,

they need to be a watch me in their life.

607

but I think that's so important.

608

And again, I think since the

pandemic, the craving for realness,

609

authenticity, genuine desire to help

and be helped, that's gone up a not

610

John: I, And I think it is also one of the

reasons why we've seen, decline in the.

611

The shiny slick people, the people trying

to sell the, millionaire billionaire

612

lifestyle, you know, they're filming

their videos, leaning on a Lamborghini

613

in a big mansion, wherever else.

614

It's like, that seems to have

mostly disappeared, thankfully.

615

And, it's much more about, connection

Now, let me ask you, I mean, you, you

616

encounter a lot of speakers, I'm sure

with the speaker was, but also in

617

other parts of your life when you're

training and whatever else, what.

618

I wonder whether we, there's might be

some commonalities we'll come across

619

here, but what, what are the most common

misconceptions or things that a lot

620

of speakers pat, perhaps more early on

in their careers just don't get right?

621

'cause this is one of those industries

where there's no one way into this.

622

There's either, there's multitude of

ways, there's no one, to become a speaker.

623

But, what are some of the things

you see people doing and that's

624

like, oh, that's probably not

gonna get you the results really?

625

Elliot Kay: I think the biggest

thing I see is, positioning

626

or mis positioning, right?

627

I think the number one thing that

opens the door, gets you booked, gets

628

you paid, is your positioning, right?

629

And if you get that.

630

Wrong or slightly off

center or too general.

631

That's the biggest thing I see.

632

Like if you get your positioning

right, everything else kind

633

of follows, it falls in line.

634

because your talk stems from

your positioning, your show,

635

real stems from positioning your

website, like it all falls in line.

636

But if you don't get the positioning

right, then that doesn't help.

637

So number one would be positioning.

638

And the other thing is,

the lack of repositioning.

639

So I see people, you know, hi, I am

John and I'm this speaker, but you

640

were that speaker three years ago.

641

The audience has moved

on, the market's changed.

642

you know, and so they don't evolve.

643

I mean, a few times, I don't get

this as much anymore, but I'd

644

get, well, I used to get bookings.

645

I'm not getting bookings anymore.

646

You must hear that.

647

And then I'm like, when, when is the

last time you repositioned yourself?

648

Like, oh no, I haven't.

649

How old's your showreel.

650

Three years.

651

Well, I would explain a lot of things

because it's not relevant anymore.

652

So I think relevancy, you know, Maria

bangs on about it and it's so true.

653

Relevancy is also, so if, if you are not

moving with the times and you haven't

654

upgraded, then you become irrelevant,

so then you are not gonna get both.

655

Right.

656

And the other thing, the

last thing is probably.

657

Speakers getting really comfortable

with where they are, and they

658

don't then invest in becoming a

better deliver deliverable, right?

659

They don't get better at delivery.

660

Now I get there's time to, you know,

to go and execute or go and execute,

661

and maybe you spend a year or two

just delivering pow, pow, pow.

662

There's gotta come a time where you stop

and go, right, how can I improve this?

663

How can I make this better?

664

And I see a lot of speakers don't do that.

665

and again, what happens is you get

a more energetic, more vibrant,

666

or, a different version or a better

version coming to market, and

667

they'll take your space, right?

668

So that's the other thing I think is,

and I wanna see more women on stages.

669

Like that's the, I'm a

huge champion of that.

670

And we see more women on stages.

671

because, you know, I think it,

it's just time that women took

672

more front stage and lead.

673

Yeah.

674

John: I de I definitely think that more

when I'm on the comedy stages as well.

675

'cause there's so few,

there's so few on the scene.

676

Elliot Kay: Exactly.

677

But you know, it's the same

with speaking, isn't it?

678

It's like, you know.

679

I just wanna see more women back

themselves, but equally, I wanna

680

see more bookers booking women,

and for the same fear as men.

681

There's absolutely no

reason why they should be.

682

Yeah,

683

John: a hundred percent.

684

It is interesting that I think, the,

what you just went through with,

685

with their positioning, I mean,

it's pretty much the, the, My, my

686

client's on as well into speaking.

687

we, we get the, we get what they're gonna

know, the problem, all that, carried

688

that over from my time with Speaker Lab.

689

But the, we get all that in place.

690

We get the positioning, we get

the business engine then, and then

691

later on we're gonna work on turning

up all the dials for you on stage

692

for, for how you deliver that.

693

But that, I think most.

694

People seem to get that the

other way round and just think

695

it's all about the stage.

696

It's all about the time

that you're on there.

697

And that's like a small part,

698

Elliot Kay: almost the

699

end of it, isn't

700

John: it?

701

That's really a small part.

702

So, so, I wonder for you, like, I, I

guess my, my continuation from that would

703

be, what your pipeline to speaking looks

like now and, and how did you build up?

704

Through to, to get that.

705

Like is it more referral based now or

do you still do a lot of prospecting

706

and did you have to do a lot to get

to that position in the first place?

707

Elliot Kay: I've gotta admit that

prospecting right now is taking a

708

bit of a, a backseat and I, it's

only because the awards and the

709

summit is taking so much of my time.

710

So I am not right now

pursuing as much as I used to.

711

Just hands up there, honest, real.

712

That's the truth.

713

But in terms of, refer,

so there's two things.

714

One is presence.

715

So, you know, I'm, I'm very present

on LinkedIn and a lot of bookings come

716

through that, through seeing my content.

717

And please remember everybody

listening, please remember the people

718

that are likely to book you won't

comment, they'll just reach out.

719

That's what I found.

720

Like they never comment on my stuff.

721

They just reach out.

722

So having

723

John: people lurk LinkedIn a lot.

724

Yeah.

725

Elliot Kay: Yeah, they'll luck.

726

Yeah, they'll luck.

727

But just be aware of that.

728

So for me, presence is key, like

continuous, consistent presence.

729

That's, that's how I build my pipeline.

730

Referrals is one, doing a great job.

731

But also asking, look, do you know

someone else that could benefit from this?

732

If you do a good job, people

would love to refer you to.

733

Don't think that people don't want to.

734

and the other thing is

partnerships, right?

735

So we have a strong partnership strategy.

736

and that's helped massively with my

pipeline because, you know, again, one

737

of the key feedbacks we get from winners

and professional speakers that enter the

738

awards, it's a lonely journey on your own.

739

You're kind of dealing with

rejection half the time.

740

You know, if, if speakers are honest,

they deal far more with rejection

741

than they do with, with success.

742

Most speakers, unless you're

the one percenters, right?

743

but partnership is a great way

to caveat that partnerships

744

and, and stuff like that.

745

I, I will get my away game, my get

outreach away game back up soon, but just

746

right now I'm, I'm focusing on the awards,

but there are some ways I've done it.

747

the other thing, of course, to

remember everyone listening this is

748

people need to see you speak, right?

749

If you're a speaker, you

need to be putting stuff that

750

demonstrates you are speaking.

751

And again, I find a lot of

speakers talk about mistakes.

752

They don't put enough of their

speaking in the front window.

753

They're kind of saying there,

hoping that someone will find it

754

or hoping that they'll get spotted.

755

Or you know, if they put one

video a month out, that should be

756

enough to guarantee them right?

757

Years worth of bookings.

758

No, you should be putting a video

a day out, for a month and then

759

that might guarantee your bookings.

760

And so I think that's another missing

part, that that's how I get my bookings.

761

Partnerships, continue.

762

Did I call it, I dunno if it's

omnipresence, let's just call it presence.

763

Consistent presence and, and,

764

John: yeah, if I do, I do sometimes, you

know, sometimes find myself on prospecting

765

calls with people where they're,

766

Talking about like what you doing

at the moment to get bookings

767

if they're not coming through.

768

Like what?

769

What actually is happening and very

commonly is things like when I'm

770

on LinkedIn, I'm posting regular

Lily, I'm commenting on other

771

people's posts and like, well,

and nothing's happening with that.

772

I'm not sure it would be like, what,

what were you putting up there for

773

people to really see what, what

you can do and what you know to

774

actually really engage with it.

775

And maybe a bit of leadership, thought

leadership and those sorts of things.

776

I think thought leadership is one of

those expressions we're sort of moving

777

away from now, but, but you know, it's,

that really is that presence there.

778

Ultimately you're waiting by,

waiting by the inbox, hoping that

779

somebody will reach out to you.

780

And I think that's a very passive

way to try and build up a, a speaking

781

business if you're not, if you don't

already have some momentum and you

782

have, you have to have that momentum.

783

Elliot Kay: Yeah, absolutely.

784

John: You have to be showing up and

I think as you say, showing what

785

you can do, because that's what

people want to see and that's really

786

where they get more likely to go.

787

All right.

788

I think we might need to reach out

to you because that looks good.

789

It's, it's an interesting, interesting

world that's, there are still people

790

who think that it's gonna come to

them if they just do the right things.

791

Elliot Kay: Yeah.

792

John: That you do have to

get yourself out there.

793

for, for, me, it's, for me, it's very

fascinating, to, to talk to you about

794

this and I, and I wonder whether there

are, like if you have any particular

795

words of advice or even encouragement

for people who are perhaps earlier in

796

the journey or in that position of.

797

Not getting the level of bookings

or, speaking that they would

798

like to have at the moment.

799

Elliot Kay: Yeah, I think work

with someone like you, number

800

one, would give my advice of,

of course, you're very welcome.

801

And the other thing is if you're

not getting the booking or

802

the flow of bookings, I think,

you know, take a step back.

803

First of all, don't personalize it.

804

It's not a reflection of you as a

person or your ability, you know, don't.

805

Be yourself over the head.

806

Be kind to yourself about it.

807

It's not an easy journey.

808

Point yourself out there continuously.

809

It's hard.

810

It's hard.

811

And you're up for scrutiny and you're

in always in someone else's hands.

812

'cause they're gonna make the

decision whether to book you or not.

813

So don't personalize it.

814

Right?

815

'cause there's so many factors as

actually talking to someone before we met.

816

They're building this cool speaker

tool, right, which will help them.

817

It's an AI thing, which

will find gigs for them.

818

I said, you don't lead with the premise.

819

If you spend this, you're gonna get this.

820

Because there's so many factors in

between that that could affect that.

821

And then you get gonna get cancellations.

822

'cause they'll blame the

software, they'll blame the ai.

823

So what I'd like to say to

everybody who, number one,

824

review your positioning, right?

825

Are you too general?

826

Are you far, you know,

very few times, John.

827

You probably find it's very few

times, are people too niche?

828

It's normally your, your general right?

829

The other thing I would say then is,

you know, really lead with the problem

830

you solve, not how brilliant you are.

831

And I think that's another,

if we talk about mistakes or

832

things, people kind of get wrong.

833

Let's just assume you're inspirational.

834

Let's assume you're motivational, right?

835

Tell me the problem you're

gonna solve by, by booking.

836

You tell me the takeaways, the

tangible takeaways as a result

837

of booking me or you, right?

838

Those are the key things I would look at.

839

And then, is it time to refresh?

840

Does your brand, because you're a

personal brand, whether you like it or

841

not, does your brand need an upgrade?

842

Right.

843

Not you as a person, but

the out looking brand.

844

And also, are you showing

up in the right places?

845

LinkedIn is where the bookers are.

846

You might be on Instagram and

TikTok, which is good too.

847

But LinkedIn is where the bookers are.

848

And the last thing I'll say is

Chase budgets not size right.

849

because you know, often you'll find

that some of the most, the best

850

paid gigs are 12 people in a room.

851

and they versus a hundred

people in a conference.

852

And the last thing I'll add

to that is, are you building

853

relationships with potential bookers?

854

Are, are literally relate?

855

Are you getting on zooms with them?

856

Are they, do they know who you are?

857

Because I think, again, if we go

back to mistakes a lot of speakers

858

make or don't do, like you talked

about sitting there waiting, well

859

actually it's a relational business.

860

People refer people they know, like in

trust in the speaking world, people, will

861

think about you if they know who you are.

862

It's not enough that

they've read a post of you.

863

If I got a feel like.

864

For you.

865

If they got, you know, a sense of your

energies, then they're more likely to

866

go, oh yeah, Elliot, let's get him in.

867

And I think these are some of the things

to, to really consider if you're not,

868

John: this is some great, some great

advice to pointers there, Elliot.

869

Thank you.

870

One final question then, to, to, I had

a, I had a client who recently, when

871

we started, went together, said to me,

I'm worried that the speaking industry

872

is kind of gonna be over because of

AI and is all gonna come to an end.

873

So I'm trying to get in

there now while I can.

874

Do you think it's gonna end?

875

I'm gonna ask you that question.

876

What do you think is the future

of the speaking industry?

877

Elliot Kay: We've been talking about

this a lot lately, and here's what's,

878

I think what's gonna happen is not

a backlash, but a movement away.

879

I think people are gonna crave

more and more live events.

880

They're gonna crave more

and more connection.

881

'cause it's been proven in even the data

showing that the Internet's plateaued.

882

Gen Z are, are, kind of,

they're not posting as much.

883

They're, they're spending more time

in sort of dark silos, IE WhatsApp

884

or places where they can't be

monitored or they're not posting.

885

So actually there's a craving

for real life connection I think.

886

I think.

887

Looking at that data, looking at things.

888

I think actually speaking is gonna go up.

889

People want more live events

because they're gonna crave human

890

connection more real human connect.

891

They wanna touch, feel, smell.

892

Not in a pervy, horrible way.

893

Yeah.

894

But you know what I mean?

895

Like people are gonna want that more

pick of the skepticism around what's

896

being posted Because of ai, I think

people are gonna go more to live.

897

John: To agree with you and,

I guess we'll see what the

898

future holds when we get there.

899

Elliot, I'm actually looking forward

to, I didn't know you had several books.

900

I'm gonna go and check some of them out.

901

I may may be getting back in touch

with you to come and discuss some

902

of the content from those, but,

but I definitely like San Who watch

903

me stuff that you're working on.

904

the speaker award stuff sounds amazing

as well, and, and definitely something

905

like, I hope people, encourage other

people to go and check out too.

906

And just, just for our listener, like

if they want to check out the speaker

907

awards, they wanna find out more about

you, your books, like what's the best

908

way for them to get more information?

909

Yeah.

910

Elliot Kay: speaker Awards

is the speaker awards.com.

911

So just go on the website, have

a read, apply, apply, apply.

912

and then if you wanna find it, I

think LinkedIn is probably, you know,

913

if you go on my LinkedIn, Elliot

K spelled properly, KAY and with

914

one T as in e double L-I-O-T-K-A-Y.

915

There's a couple of my books on my page.

916

That's best way I think.

917

Otherwise, no museum, never all these

other websites, that's the on Leo.

918

Let's keep it simple.

919

And if you have a question, just reach

out to me, say hello, and then, yeah,

920

John: fantastic.

921

Well, I certainly will hope to have you

on the show again in the future, but

922

it's been an amazing conversation today.

923

Very valuable.

924

Lots of good stuff in there that I hope

people have been making notes and, and

925

certainly there's gonna be stuff in the

show notes, all the links will be there.

926

Everything for people to check

you out and the summaries of

927

what we talked about today.

928

And, wish you the best of luck with the

speak with the upcoming speaker awards.

929

I hope it's an amazing event.

930

Elliot Kay: Thank you.

931

John: a great episode with Elliot

there, and we'll definitely look to

932

have him back in the future as well.

933

But everything we talked about plus links

to the awards, Elliot's, LinkedIn, and

934

his books, you'll find in the show notes.

935

And if you're considering

entering or you haven't got much

936

time, so don't leave it late.

937

the April 30th cutoff

is not that far away.

938

Now, if you missed it

this year, don't panic.

939

They will be back next year.

940

Two quick asks before you go.

941

Firstly, if this episode make you think

differently, the single most helpful thing

942

you could do is leave a rating on Spotify.

943

It takes 10 seconds and it genuinely helps

and make sure you're following as well.

944

and doing that does genuinely help this

show reach more speakers who need to

945

hear, secondly, make sure you're following

the show wherever you are listening,

946

because next week I've got a conversation

you really don't want to miss.

947

That will be my conversation

with the multi Emmy award-winning

948

comedy writer Beth Sherman.

949

she's not just a comedy writer, she's a

professional speaker, And honestly, it's

950

one of the most valuable conversations

I've had on this show all year.

951

So don't let that one slip past you.

952

So thank you for listening.

953

I genuinely appreciate you tuning

into the show and giving us your time.

954

And until the next time we connect, go

and do something worth talking about.

955

See you next time.