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Does Believing in Jesus Lead to Antisemitism?
Episode 413th June 2021 • Our Hope Podcast • Chosen People Ministries
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The church's history of antisemitism has led many Jewish people to believe Jesus was antisemitic—but the Gospel accounts tell us a different story! In this week's episode of Our Hope Podcast 🎙, Israeli staff member Moti Vaknin shares how he realized that believing in Jesus should never lead to antisemitism. Listen to this timely episode now!

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to Our Hope,

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a production of Chosen

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People Ministries.

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On this podcast you will hear

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inspiring testimonies,

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learn about Messianic

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apologetics and discover

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God's plan for Israel and you.

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Wherever you're listening,

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we hope you lean in,

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listen closely and be blessed.

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Many believers have

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grown up in churches

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that advocate for

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the Jewish people.

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Perhaps you have

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always been taught

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that the Jewish people

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are God’s chosen people,

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and that their return to

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the land of Israel

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is the fulfillment

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of biblical prophecy.

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You may have even heard

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it is a believer’s duty

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to love the Jewish people

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and share the gospel with them.

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Historically, however,

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the Church as a whole, has

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not always been a friend

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to the Jewish people.

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You might wonder how the Church

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could ever hate

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the chosen people,

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but the Jewish community

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remembers.

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They remember the pogroms,

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the crusades, the Inquisition,

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expulsions, and,

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of course, they remember

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the Holocaust.

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These horrific events

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are painful reminders

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to Jewish people

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of how those who call

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themselves believers in Jesus

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have persecuted them.

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And sadly, this has tainted

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their view of the

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Jewish Messiah–Yeshua.

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One can see how Jewish

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people might believe

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that following Jesus

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could lead to antisemitism.

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But is that really true?

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Does believing in Jesus

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the Messiah lead

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to antisemitism?

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How can we acknowledge

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the hurt experienced

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by the Jewish community

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while also sharing

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the good news with them?

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Joining us today

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all the way from Israel

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is Chosen People Ministries’

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staff member, Moti Vaknin.

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Moti is an Israeli,

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and he shared his testimony

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with us in Season 3,

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so we really look forward

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to hearing his perspective

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on this topic.

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And now, I introduce

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the host of Our Hope

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Podcast, Abe Vazquez!

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Hello everyone,

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welcome to our hope.

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I'm Abe Vazquez

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and I'm really excited

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for our guest today.

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The last time we brought him on

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I think that was probably

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my favorite episode.

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I just had so much fun

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talking about his testimony

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and just hearing

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just a sense of humor

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that God has in our lives

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and especially in Moti's life.

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And so I'm just really,

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really excited to have him back

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to talk about this question

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that's really, really powerful.

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And many Jewish people

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probably wonder this,

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and it's, Does

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believing in Jesus

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the Messiah lead

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to antisemitism?

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Moti, welcome to Our Hope.

Moti:

Hey Shalom everyone,

Moti:

Shalom from Israel

Moti:

from Ramat Gan,

Moti:

good to be here.

Moti:

Thank you

Moti:

for inviting me again.

Abe:

Of course,

Abe:

we're going to keep

Abe:

having you back, depending on

Abe:

how you do in this episode.

Abe:

But Moti you know,

Abe:

usually we start off

Abe:

on a light note, but just given

Abe:

what's going on in

Abe:

Israel, what's happened

Abe:

in the past few weeks,

Abe:

we're just wondering

Abe:

what is the update,

Abe:

what's happening,

Abe:

how are you doing?

Abe:

How is your wife?

Abe:

What's going on over there?

Moti:

Well, first of all,

Moti:

just to say that

Moti:

it feels like like

Moti:

the world has stopped

Moti:

and Israel is

Moti:

on a first forward

Moti:

because everyone is still

Moti:

stuck with COVID-19

Moti:

and we in a way just finished

Moti:

with that here in Israel

Moti:

and we jumped into

Moti:

a war with Gaza.

Moti:

And then after the war

Moti:

with Gaza, right now

Moti:

we're trying

Moti:

to build our government,

Moti:

which is something

Moti:

that it's it's going

Moti:

for a few months already.

Moti:

It's a- Abe:

Moti:

Just a few things happening.

Moti:

Just a few things.

Moti:

But somehow when the world

Moti:

is going on with COVID

Moti:

and fighting COVID,

Moti:

it feels like we are still in

Moti:

a war

Moti:

against antisemitism online,

Moti:

and we see that all the time.

Moti:

But besides that, thank God

Moti:

we live in Ramat Gan,

Moti:

and if you've seen on the news,

Moti:

a few rockets

Moti:

fell in civilian area

Moti:

in Ramat Gan, Giv'atayim,

Moti:

Tel Aviv, which is something

Moti:

that we don't see that often.

Moti:

I can say that one rocket

Moti:

fell a street behind us.

Moti:

I'm pointing this side,

Moti:

but it's actually

Moti:

this side right there,

Moti:

and it shook the entire house.

Moti:

Thank God it fell on the street

Moti:

in the middle of the street.

Moti:

Just imagine that it happens

Moti:

just you know, in,

Moti:

I don't know on the corner

Moti:

of of 4th avenue and 50

Moti:

and 51 or something like that.

Abe:

Well,

Abe:

we know you're

Abe:

not from New York,

Abe:

'cause there's no such thing

Abe:

as a 4th avenue.

Moti:

No such thing?

Moti:

How about third avenue?

Abe:

3rd avenue, there you go.

Moti:

But

Moti:

just just to give you a-

Moti:

just let you think that

Moti:

these things happen

Moti:

and somehow we Israelis

Moti:

are not getting used to it,

Moti:

but this is our life.

Abe:

Yeah.

Moti:

And this is

Moti:

where we are right now

Moti:

with this moment.

Moti:

But thank God we finished

Moti:

the Guardian On the Wall,

Moti:

this is how they called

Moti:

the last operation that was

Moti:

with Gaza and right now

Moti:

we're dealing

Moti:

with our government.

Moti:

But besides that God is good

Moti:

and we are following Him

Moti:

and preaching the gospel,

Moti:

which is what we need to do,

Moti:

what we've been called to do.

Abe:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah, and I'm sure

Nicole:

this is a very strenuous time,

Nicole:

and I'm probably

Nicole:

a lot of people

Nicole:

are more curious to hear

Nicole:

about the Messiah.

Nicole:

Do you have any testimonies

Nicole:

about what God is

Nicole:

doing during this time?

Nicole:

Well, the

Nicole:

entire season of COVID

Nicole:

and the way that Israel

Nicole:

dealt with it was

Nicole:

I can say it was bad or good

Nicole:

because nobody

Nicole:

could really know

Nicole:

how to deal with it.

Nicole:

But the outcome from

Nicole:

that pandemic brought

Nicole:

a lot of people into,

Nicole:

I would say becoming

Nicole:

more self-aware

Nicole:

to themselves and

Nicole:

and staying at home.

Nicole:

Even our congregations

Nicole:

here in Israel,

Nicole:

where I won't say

Nicole:

just a lot of people

Nicole:

left our congregation,

Nicole:

but it feels like

Nicole:

there was something

Nicole:

that was against

Nicole:

the Spirit of God

Nicole:

in this country,

Nicole:

but we know it

Nicole:

didn't really caused

Nicole:

a big major events

Nicole:

against against the church

Nicole:

when it comes

Nicole:

to this testimony.

Nicole:

I can say that right

Nicole:

after the war in Gaza

Nicole:

I received three

Nicole:

messages from friends

Nicole:

that I just know

Nicole:

online on Facebook

Nicole:

and and they said OK, there's

Nicole:

something there's

Nicole:

got to be something spiritual

Nicole:

that's going on in this country

Nicole:

because we can't

Nicole:

really understand

Nicole:

how the world doesn't

Nicole:

see the truth

Nicole:

that we are fighting here

Nicole:

in this country.

Nicole:

And that's by itself

Nicole:

opens a conversation

Nicole:

when people understand

Nicole:

that it's not political,

Nicole:

it's not something

Nicole:

that you can just deal with it.

Nicole:

It's not a pandemic, it's not,

Nicole:

it's

Nicole:

not a doctor that you can go

Nicole:

and fix, it's

Nicole:

something spiritual

Nicole:

that we need something

Nicole:

from outside and

Nicole:

and we see that

Nicole:

people are more open,

Nicole:

but then in the same time

Nicole:

we're trying

Nicole:

to bring the gospel

Nicole:

as much as we can.

Nicole:

So I don't have

Nicole:

any major testimony

Nicole:

to share with you,

Nicole:

but I can say that

Nicole:

people are becoming open

Nicole:

after those events.

Nicole:

That's awesome.

Abe:

So Moti

Abe:

this war in Gaza, it felt like

Abe:

the whole world was watching

Abe:

what was going on

Abe:

and because of that

Abe:

there were a lot

Abe:

of different opinions as to

Abe:

whose fault this was

Abe:

and what's interesting to me

Abe:

is that many people

Abe:

will associate Jewish people

Abe:

with what's happening

Abe:

in Israel.

Abe:

So even Jewish Americans

Abe:

kind of get blamed

Abe:

for what's happening in Israel.

Abe:

So as a result, there's

Abe:

a lot of antisemitism

Abe:

going on around the world.

Abe:

The funny thing is

Abe:

many Israelis, even in

Abe:

the government, would say

Abe:

evangelical Christians are

Abe:

one of their greatest

Abe:

allies, right?

Abe:

That's kind of what's

Abe:

floating around,

Abe:

but at the same time, Jewish

Abe:

people still feel like

Abe:

if the gospel is

Abe:

shared with them, that it's

Abe:

either

Abe:

some sort of antisemitism

Abe:

or can lead to antisemitism,

Abe:

and so that really

Abe:

is the point of this question

Abe:

that we want to answer today.

Abe:

Does believing in Jesus

Abe:

actually lead to antisemitism?

Abe:

So in

Abe:

order to answer this question,

Abe:

it would be helpful

Abe:

to understand how

Abe:

the Jewish people

Abe:

view believers and the Church.

Abe:

Can you share a little bit

Abe:

about that and why?

Moti:

Well,

Moti:

I can give you from my

Moti:

own prespective,

Moti:

growing up in a religious home.

Moti:

By the way you mentioned there

Moti:

that the Christian

Moti:

families and Christian

Moti:

I would say Christian world

Moti:

is the best friend

Moti:

that we know that

Moti:

there is in Israel

Moti:

and that's true.

Moti:

From around the world

Moti:

I believe that the best

Moti:

allies of Israel

Moti:

are Christians, and in the war

Moti:

that we're fighting

Moti:

against an enemy

Moti:

whom we know that

Moti:

the only goal they've got is

Moti:

to try to kill people,

Moti:

we as Israelis see

Moti:

that the entire world hates us

Moti:

and and when we see Christians,

Moti:

and that's interesting,

Moti:

when we see

Moti:

and I can tell for

Moti:

myself as well,

Moti:

but for other friends

Moti:

that I know about them,

Moti:

when we see Christians

Moti:

that raise the flag of Israel,

Moti:

or when they say that they pray

Moti:

for the Jewish people

Moti:

or pray for Israel,

Moti:

it warms our hearts

Moti:

because the only thing

Moti:

we hear

Moti:

all the time on the news

Moti:

is how much Israel is the bad

Moti:

enemies, the bad monster right?

Nicole:

Yeah.

Moti:

And I can tell you

Moti:

by myself that growing up in

Moti:

a religious home

Moti:

I didn't,

Moti:

I didn't know anything

Moti:

about Christianity.

Moti:

I just knew maybe two

Moti:

things about Yeshua.

Moti:

One thing,

Moti:

He walked on the water,

Moti:

the second thing

Moti:

He was Jewish,

Moti:

which is important,

Moti:

but they didn't know

Moti:

anything about Him.

Moti:

What most of the Israelis

Moti:

know about Christianity

Moti:

today is mostly

Moti:

comes from movies,

Moti:

from videos, from

Moti:

friends they met,

Moti:

and of course, from what they

Moti:

they know from Rabbis,

Moti:

which is a lot of

Moti:

the time incorrect.

Moti:

So when Israelis

Moti:

think about Christianity,

Moti:

the first thing they think

Moti:

about is Catholics.

Moti:

This is the big symbols

Moti:

of the cross, images

Moti:

of the Holocaust, and programs,

Moti:

and inquisitions

Moti:

that happened in the past.

Moti:

And that's not because of

Moti:

what Christianity is (but)

Moti:

because what antisemitic is

Moti:

and this is what we're trying

Moti:

to do a lot in Israel

Moti:

when we're trying to explain

Moti:

Yeshua is that Yeshua

Moti:

never mentioned

Moti:

fighting against Jewish people

Moti:

or against Judaism

Moti:

or against every

Moti:

other religion.

Moti:

But we know that people,

Moti:

when they have power,

Moti:

they just use this

Moti:

power in a bad way.

Moti:

So I know for myself

Moti:

and for friends that I have

Moti:

that we do not hate Christians.

Moti:

We do not go

Moti:

against Christianity,

Moti:

but in some way I do believe

Moti:

that every Jewish

Moti:

person in the world

Moti:

has in his own mindset

Moti:

somewhere over there

Moti:

a fear from Gentile,

Moti:

and that's and I

Moti:

can, I can see why

Moti:

I can see why

Moti:

and then that's it.

Moti:

This is how I think.

Moti:

But Israelis love Christianity.

Moti:

As much as it's

Moti:

funny, December,

Moti:

Christmas I know

Moti:

we don't celebrate Christmas,

Moti:

I just look at that

Moti:

as a holy day.

Moti:

Of course

Moti:

that Christians celebrate,

Moti:

but if you go to churches

Moti:

you'll see a lot of Israelis.

Moti:

Jewish Israelis take their kids

Moti:

and go to during Christmas

Moti:

to the Christmas mass

Moti:

and this is amazing

Moti:

because they're very open.

Moti:

Israel today is very open,

Moti:

especially for the West.

Moti:

And this is a change.

Moti:

20 years ago

Moti:

you would never see things

Moti:

like that happen

Moti:

in this country.

Moti:

We'll be right back.

Moti:

During these difficult times,

Moti:

we know how hard it is

Moti:

to hold on to hope,

Moti:

and we want you to know

Moti:

that Chosen People Ministries

Moti:

is here for you.

Moti:

If you have any prayer

Moti:

requests, our prayer team

Moti:

is standing by to receive them.

Moti:

You can submit your request

Moti:

at chosenpeople.com/pray

Moti:

again

Moti:

that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

Abe:

So there's a

Abe:

shift happening,

Abe:

but before this current shift

Abe:

that's happening,

Abe:

what's the historical backdrop

Abe:

of why many Jewish

Abe:

people around the world,

Abe:

not just in Israel,

Abe:

maybe Jewish Americans

Abe:

or just Jewish

Abe:

people in general,

Abe:

what did they equate

Abe:

Christianity with?

Moti:

Usually paganism.

Moti:

Jews look at Christianity as

Moti:

I would say that

Moti:

today maybe less, but

Moti:

maybe even more in

Moti:

in orthodox circles,

Moti:

they'll see that

Moti:

as a extremely different

Moti:

religion, paganism,

Moti:

something that you don't need

Moti:

to get close to.

Moti:

A religion that tries

Moti:

to exterminate the Jewish faith

Moti:

and this is what they use,

Moti:

this is their words.

Moti:

And they see

Moti:

Christians as enemies.

Moti:

And then on the other hand,

Moti:

if you're not orthodox,

Moti:

if you're not Hassidic

Moti:

or something like that,

Moti:

if you're more liberal or open,

Moti:

then a lot of the

Moti:

Jews and Israelis

Moti:

will look at Christianity

Moti:

as a very warm religion

Moti:

that accept everyone

Moti:

and the same as Yeshua

Moti:

that He accepted

Moti:

everyone who comes

Moti:

in His, in His steps.

Moti:

And anyways, when

Moti:

when you look at the history

Moti:

before Israel was established,

Moti:

it's funny.

Moti:

I just talked with a friend

Moti:

about that a few days ago,

Moti:

before Israel was

Moti:

established, most Christians

Moti:

did not did

Moti:

not accept the Jews.

Moti:

They did not accept,

Moti:

they did not accept the way

Moti:

they live.

Moti:

Most of the Jews

Moti:

they were in diaspora,

Moti:

in Europe I would say.

Moti:

Most of the programs

Moti:

that happened was in Europe

Moti:

and that was against

Moti:

Jews from the Christian Church.

Moti:

The Holocaust, which was

Moti:

an event that I think

Moti:

that most of us

Moti:

wants to forget, but we can't

Moti:

because it's such

Moti:

an evil event

Moti:

that happened in the history.

Moti:

But we know that

Moti:

the Church back then

Moti:

did not even do anything

Moti:

to support the Jewish people.

Moti:

We do know about

Moti:

some families,

Moti:

Christian families

Moti:

that protected Jewish Jews

Moti:

and that's these

Moti:

people are very important

Moti:

for the Jewish people

Moti:

and for Israel

Moti:

they even have a place

Moti:

where they are buried in

Moti:

Israel in Mount Olive,

Moti:

which is it's tag

Moti:

of honor for them.

Moti:

But coming to Israel as a state

Moti:

that was established,

Moti:

I believe that most

Moti:

Israelis and most Jews

Moti:

were kind of afraid

Moti:

of different religion,

Moti:

of Christianity,

Moti:

especially coming

Moti:

from a background

Moti:

of the Holocaust or inquisition

Moti:

and stuff like that.

Nicole:

So Moti

Nicole:

what made you see

Nicole:

that believing in Jesus doesn't

Nicole:

lead to antsemitism?

Moti:

I read the New Testament.

Nicole:

That'll do it.

Moti:

That's that's,

Moti:

that's exactly what made me

Moti:

really change my mind

Moti:

about the way that

Moti:

Jesus is being presented

Moti:

to the Jewish people,

Moti:

and I think that by reading

Moti:

the New Testament

Moti:

and getting to know Yeshua even

Moti:

not going to Bible school.

Moti:

Just when you get to know

Moti:

the character,

Moti:

you understand that Yeshua was

Moti:

There is no words

Moti:

to say what He was

Moti:

because He was everything.

Moti:

Accepting everyone,

Moti:

protecting the homeless

Moti:

and the poor, and fighting

Moti:

to protect them.

Moti:

And this is not an act

Moti:

that you will see

Moti:

from an antisemite.

Moti:

This is not an act

Moti:

that you will see from

Moti:

someone who wants

Moti:

to hate people just because

Moti:

of their race or their faith.

Moti:

And more than that

Moti:

I do believe that

Moti:

when when every Jew

Moti:

or someone that believes

Moti:

that has any faith in his heart

Moti:

will open the New

Moti:

Testament and read it,

Moti:

he will see a book of love.

Moti:

A book that brings

Moti:

people together.

Moti:

And I remember sitting there

Moti:

when I, when I was

Moti:

in New York back then in 2009,

Moti:

and sitting in my basement

Moti:

and I was searching

Moti:

for evidence of of

Moti:

Jesus saying, destroy

Moti:

the Jewish faith,

Moti:

kill all the Jews.

Moti:

I was looking for that

Moti:

and I just found the opposite.

Moti:

Love your enemies

Moti:

exactly exactly.

Moti:

Love your enemies.

Moti:

If someone

Moti:

slap you in the face,

Moti:

give him your other cheek,

Moti:

it's amazing that

Moti:

this is not an act.

Moti:

This is not a person

Moti:

who seeks for war

Moti:

and I was shocked

Moti:

because I was taught

Moti:

that the New Testament is

Moti:

is the core of of

Moti:

antisemite in the world.

Abe:

So what are

Abe:

some other verses

Abe:

in the New Testament that show

Abe:

the heart of Jesus towards

Abe:

the Jewish people?

Abe:

I can't remember how

Abe:

it goes in English,

Abe:

but I remember when

Abe:

Yeshua was on the cross

Abe:

and when the people

Abe:

that were there,

Abe:

we all know

Abe:

that they were Jews,

Abe:

the audience that

Abe:

were around him,

Abe:

and they were mocking Him,

Abe:

and He suffers on the cross.

Abe:

And He suffers on the cross

Abe:

because the people that were

Abe:

there were actually people

Abe:

that put Him on the cross.

Abe:

It was us.

Abe:

It was the entire world

Abe:

that put Him on the cross

Abe:

and from His deepest

Abe:

pain, and I don't need

Abe:

to teach anyone who listens

Abe:

to this podcast

Abe:

what it means to go

Abe:

through a crucifixion.

Abe:

It's so much pain,

Abe:

and from His deepest pain,

Abe:

He says, forgive them, for

Abe:

they do not know

Abe:

what they are doing.

Abe:

Right.

Moti:

And I look at this person

Moti:

and I look at Yeshua

Moti:

at this moment, and I say,

Moti:

I am one of those people

Moti:

who was probably sitting

Moti:

with the audience

Moti:

and mocking Yeshua.

Moti:

And now He gives

Moti:

me forgiveness.

Moti:

So here is an amazing verse

Moti:

to show that not only Yeshua

Moti:

was never giving any antisemite

Moti:

verses, or words, or quotes,

Moti:

but He forgave the

Moti:

people who hated Him.

Moti:

This is this is more than what

Moti:

we can understand,

Moti:

and His people were Israel.

Moti:

They were Jews.

Moti:

So for me it's it's a big,

Moti:

a big verse to hold on

Moti:

for how God loves

Moti:

the Jewish people

Moti:

and of course everyone else.

Nicole:

Exactly,

Nicole:

Jesus never encouraged

Nicole:

anybody to hate, only to love.

Nicole:

What are some verses though

Nicole:

that in the Gospels

Nicole:

and even in the New Testament,

Nicole:

that have been misunderstood

Nicole:

as anti-Semitic?

Nicole:

And

Nicole:

how can we properly understand

Nicole:

what the text is really saying?

Nicole:

There is a verse

Nicole:

that I am trying to find it,

Nicole:

but I know that

Nicole:

during the Holocaust

Nicole:

they used it a lot

Nicole:

and that's the Jews

Nicole:

are the Church of Satan

Nicole:

and it's I think it's

Nicole:

found in Revelation.

Nicole:

During the Holocaust,

Nicole:

a lot of the times,

Nicole:

this verse was used to burn,

Nicole:

to burn synagogues

Nicole:

to burn, to kill Jewish people.

Nicole:

And until today,

Nicole:

we do hear that.

Nicole:

We sometimes we hear

Nicole:

those verses that comes out.

Nicole:

And it should-

Nicole:

I think that when you

Nicole:

look at the entire context

Nicole:

of the New Testament,

Nicole:

you can't, really,

Nicole:

you can't really see that

Nicole:

this is what God wants.

Nicole:

In the book of John 8:43–44,

Nicole:

Jesus tells the Jews

Nicole:

you are of your father

Nicole:

the devil.

Nicole:

In this case

Nicole:

Jesus was referring to those

Nicole:

Jewish people

Nicole:

with hardened hearts

Nicole:

that rejects Him.

Nicole:

He is never referring

Nicole:

to all Jewish people,

Nicole:

but

Nicole:

with those who have disobeyed

Nicole:

God, such admonishing words

Nicole:

were also written

Nicole:

by the prophets in the Tanakh.

Nicole:

The Prophets were always,

Nicole:

this is the Prophets',

Nicole:

the Prophet's language

Nicole:

was always

Nicole:

very rough against Israel

Nicole:

because it's by the way, it's

Nicole:

the same today, but

Nicole:

not with prophecy

Nicole:

but with commercials or

Nicole:

if you want to say

Nicole:

something you have,

Nicole:

you have to point something.

Nicole:

You have to make someone react

Nicole:

to what you're saying,

Nicole:

because if no one

Nicole:

reacts to what you were saying,

Nicole:

you actually not

Nicole:

saying anything.

Nicole:

And this is what

Nicole:

Yeshua is doing in

Nicole:

this moment is actually making

Nicole:

people understand

Nicole:

that He's here and people

Nicole:

need to react right now.

Nicole:

And as much as most of

Nicole:

the Prophets were doing before.

Nicole:

Isaiah was referring

Nicole:

the Jewish people to sons of

Nicole:

serpent, and murderers

Nicole:

with blood on their hands.

Nicole:

So are we going to look at

Nicole:

Isaiah as an antisemite?

Nicole:

Is that- No!

Nicole:

This is an internal

Nicole:

debate among Jews

Nicole:

and in a way that

Nicole:

wants to show a prophecy

Nicole:

to the Jewish people.

Nicole:

But I don't think that

Nicole:

we can take this verse

Nicole:

and use it as an

Nicole:

as an antisemite.

Nicole:

We need to understand

Nicole:

that the books of

Nicole:

the New Testament

Nicole:

was written by Jews, to Jews

Nicole:

and to the rest of the world.

Nicole:

So we are free

Nicole:

to fight among ourselves.

Nicole:

But when someone else

Nicole:

is taking one of our verses

Nicole:

and use it against us

Nicole:

then it's missing the point.

Abe:

So now that

Abe:

we have an understanding

Abe:

of some of the

Abe:

Jewish perspectives

Abe:

regarding those

Abe:

who follow Jesus,

Abe:

what would you say

Abe:

to a Jewish person

Abe:

or an Israeli

Abe:

who has such a view

Abe:

to help them

Abe:

see the actual truth?

Abe:

Well, I would first of all say,

Abe:

I would first of all

Abe:

dare, I will dare

Abe:

every Israeli and every Jew

Abe:

to go by themselves

Abe:

to the New Testament and find

Abe:

verses that speaks against

Abe:

Judaism.

Abe:

Of course, with

Abe:

understanding again

Abe:

that this book is for Jews,

Abe:

and was written by Jews.

Abe:

This is the first thing

Abe:

that I will do.

Abe:

The second thing is

Abe:

that I will ask is

Abe:

Have you ever met a Christian

Abe:

or a follower of Yeshua?

Abe:

Did you see how he acts?

Abe:

Did you see how he prayed?

Abe:

Did you?

Abe:

What did you didn't

Abe:

agree with his faith?

Abe:

What did you agree

Abe:

with the things he is doing?

Abe:

And then thirdly,

Abe:

I would definitely go

Abe:

back to Yeshua and ask,

Abe:

what is so wrong with Yeshua

Abe:

that makes you think that

Abe:

Christianity is antisemitism?

Abe:

Is antisemite.

Abe:

What did Yeshua did

Abe:

that make

Abe:

Christianity antisemite?

Abe:

And to be honest?

Abe:

Most of the Israelis

Abe:

that I've met

Abe:

would never answer

Abe:

question three because

Abe:

they don't know Yeshua.

Abe:

And this is also the-

Abe:

Because if you know Him,

Abe:

you know that He's not.

Abe:

Right.

Moti:

Yeah,

Moti:

and so in light of all this,

Moti:

how can we share

Moti:

the gospel of Yeshua

Moti:

with someone who

Moti:

has this mindset

Moti:

that Christianity

Moti:

is antisemitic?

Moti:

First of all,

Moti:

I would go back to the verse

Moti:

that I just talked

Moti:

about in the beginning.

Moti:

When Yeshua was on the cross,

Moti:

He said He forgive them

Moti:

didn't, doesn't matter

Moti:

who you are, how old are you,

Moti:

where you're from,

Moti:

and what language do you speak.

Moti:

Yeshua forgave your sins.

Moti:

And I would always make

Moti:

that clear to a person

Moti:

that speaks to me

Moti:

that He loves you.

Moti:

He loves you

Moti:

and you can hate Him.

Moti:

You can go against Him.

Moti:

You can fight against Yeshua

Moti:

or you can fight against God.

Moti:

This is not what I want

Moti:

you to do.

Moti:

This is not

Moti:

what I, I don't think

Moti:

that anyone needs to fight

Moti:

God because we can't.

Moti:

But you can.

Moti:

You can be angry with Him

Moti:

but Yeshua will

Moti:

always love you.

Moti:

And the best images

Moti:

is looking at the cross

Moti:

when He was there

Moti:

and from His deepest pain,

Moti:

still gave us forgiveness.

Moti:

I don't know any other hero

Moti:

that will do that

Moti:

for His own people

Moti:

that actually throw

Moti:

Him away from the circle

Moti:

or from the family.

Moti:

I always love to

Moti:

speak to Israelis

Moti:

or to any person

Moti:

that I meet with Proverbs

Moti:

or just give them

Moti:

like little stories.

Moti:

But I remember

Moti:

a story that happened

Moti:

in Israel in 2011.

Moti:

I'm sorry, 2007,

Moti:

Second Lebanon War.

Moti:

There was a soldier in Lebanon

Moti:

that I think it was a grenade

Moti:

that was thrown into his unit

Moti:

and he jumped on the grenade

Moti:

and saved his entire

Moti:

unit from being hit from

Moti:

that grenade, and he

Moti:

of course lost his life.

Moti:

And Israelis know

Moti:

that story clearly,

Moti:

and this is an act

Moti:

that Jesus did for us.

Moti:

This is an act that Jesus

Moti:

would do for every person.

Moti:

So

Moti:

this is not antisemite,

Moti:

Jesus cannot be antisemite,

Moti:

the New Testament

Moti:

cannot be antisemite,

Moti:

the only people that make

Moti:

this book antisemite

Moti:

are people that don't know

Moti:

Yeshua or don't know this Book.

Abe:

So if people are wondering

Abe:

how to share their faith

Abe:

with Jewish people

Abe:

who are struggling

Abe:

with this question,

Abe:

we have another episode

Abe:

where we brought on Olivier

Abe:

Melnik to talk about

Abe:

this kind of same theme

Abe:

that was Season 2 Episode

Abe:

5 called "Sharing

Abe:

Your Faith, Part 2".

Abe:

It was a series tackling

Abe:

some of the similar objections.

Abe:

"I'm Jewish, Jews don't believe

Abe:

in Jesus", or "Evangelism

Abe:

is an attack on the Jewish

Abe:

people", and Olivier

Abe:

he also mentions this idea of

Abe:

just making sure you arrive

Abe:

and you show up to

Abe:

that conversation

Abe:

knowing that there's baggage.

Abe:

That one baggage

Abe:

is the Holocaust, another

Abe:

baggage are the programs.

Abe:

They're all, there's

Abe:

this history

Abe:

that we need to acknowledge,

Abe:

and we can't forget

Abe:

when we enter into

Abe:

this conversation.

Abe:

And it's just so

Abe:

important to be humble

Abe:

and not pretend that

Abe:

these things didn't happen,

Abe:

and we're not trying

Abe:

to shove down

Abe:

Jesus down anyone's

Abe:

anyone's throat.

Abe:

We need to be respectful.

Abe:

I mean, of course

Abe:

like what Moti, what

Abe:

you've been saying

Abe:

we just need to love.

Abe:

You went into the New Testament

Abe:

looking for hate

Abe:

and you found love.

Moti:

Yeah.

Abe:

And that's how

Abe:

we need to approach

Abe:

these conversations with love

Abe:

and respect for others.

Abe:

So Moti

Abe:

just to kind of wrap things up,

Abe:

One last question,

Abe:

does believing in Jesus lead

Abe:

to antisemitism?

Moti:

No.

Moti:

But people do.

Abe:

That's it.

Moti:

But people do that.

Moti:

It will be,

Moti:

no, but people do.

Moti:

Religion does and

Moti:

and I will dare

Moti:

any person that thinks that

Moti:

the New Testament is antisemite

Moti:

to just read the New Testament.

Abe:

Yep, see for yourself.

Moti:

And speak to us.

Abe:

Moti,

Abe:

thank you so much

Abe:

for joining us.

Abe:

We really appreciate

Abe:

your insight and how personal

Abe:

this is to you.

Abe:

It's

Abe:

it's really great to hear you.

Abe:

We're glad to see you're safe

Abe:

and we continue to

Abe:

for you, the staff in Israel.

Abe:

Yeah, just blessings over

Abe:

you and your family.

Moti:

Todah rabah,

Moti:

thank you so much for

Moti:

for having me here with you

Moti:

guys.

Moti:

It's a blessing

Moti:

and thank you for,

Moti:

and thanks for

Moti:

all the listeners

Moti:

that we have here

Moti:

on this podcast.

Abe:

Yeah, amazing.

Nicole:

Thank you, Moti.

Moti:

Shalom, from Israel.

Moti:

For many

Moti:

in the Jewish community,

Moti:

it is hard to forget

Moti:

the Church’s

Moti:

history of persecution

Moti:

and rejection towards them,

Moti:

but as we have seen,

Moti:

Jesus loves His chosen people.

Moti:

Throughout the New Testament,

Moti:

we see that He was sent

Moti:

first to the lost sheep

Moti:

of the House of Israel,

Moti:

and as we have discussed,

Moti:

Jesus Himself is Jewish,

Moti:

as well as His 12 disciples.

Moti:

While we cannot change history,

Moti:

we can ensure that history does

Moti:

not repeat itself.

Moti:

We can be mindful

Moti:

of the Jewish community’s pain

Moti:

and rebuild our relationship

Moti:

and trust with them once again.

Moti:

It is through kindness and love

Moti:

that we can share the truth

Moti:

of Yeshua’s heart towards

Moti:

God’s chosen people.

Moti:

In this series, we tackle

Moti:

many common objections

Moti:

that Jewish people have towards

Moti:

believing in Yeshua.

Moti:

For some people,

Moti:

there is the need to debate

Moti:

and research to find truth.

Moti:

But one’s intellect

Moti:

will only get you so far.

Moti:

In next week’s episode,

Moti:

we will bring to you three

Moti:

testimonies

Moti:

of Jewish intellectuals

Moti:

and atheists who have decided

Moti:

to follow Jesus.

Moti:

Thank you for listening

Moti:

to this week’s

Moti:

episode of Our Hope,

Moti:

featuring Chosen

Moti:

People Ministries’ Israel

Moti:

staff member, Moti Vaknin.

Moti:

This episode was

Moti:

produced, written,

Moti:

and edited by Grace Swee.

Moti:

This episode was created

Moti:

thanks to Dr.

Moti:

Mitch Glaser, Nicole Vacca,

Moti:

and Kieran Bautista.

Moti:

I’m Abe Vazquez.

Moti:

Until next time.

Moti:

Thanks for listening

Moti:

to Our Hope.

Moti:

If you like our show

Moti:

and want to know more,

Moti:

check out ourhopepodcast.com

Moti:

or chosenpeople.com.

Moti:

You can also support

Moti:

our podcast by giving today

Moti:

at ourhopepodcast.com/support.

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