Why would a small town business owner take a pay cut to serve, hire extra staff to cover him, then ask voters for four more years? In this episode, Commissioner Mike Rose unpacks the revaluation year in plain numbers, the billion in building needs, and why the county set the rate it did. Are incentives giveaways, or a smarter way to win jobs? What happens when the state stalls and the courts still need staff? If you care about taxes, growth, and the future of Johnston County, lean in.

We asked him about the budget process last year, the reevaluation and how they came up, or they came up with the tax rate they set. We also talked to him a little bit about economic development and why he thinks he is the best candidate to be on the board for the next four years. So if you're interested in any of these, listen in.

Jonathan Breeden: Hello and welcome to another edition of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Breeden, and on today's episode we have County Commissioner Mike Rose.

He's back for his second visit on our podcast. This time he's back to talk about his campaign to be elected to a full four year term to the board of commissioners, representing, I believe District three, which is like Princeton and Benson and that part of the county. He was appointed to the board to fill an unexpired term.

So go back and listen some of our previous episodes, including the original one with Mike Rose Congressman Brad Knott when he was campaigning. Chris Johnson, economic Development Director. We had Adrian O'Neal, the current county Parks rec director twice. So a lot of great guests have been on over the years.

Well over a hundred episodes now. If you love Johnston County as much as I do, this is the podcast. You welcome back, Mike.

Mike Rose: All right, thanks lot for,

Jonathan Breeden: I appreciate you coming back. But for everybody that doesn't listen to every episode which is like. Like three people. Yeah. Me, my wife and a neighbor friend of mine. What's your name? What do you do?

So, there's a lot of duties. There's been a lot of meetings this year. I think we're. Well into a couple hundred meetings this, this year. Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You go to a lot of meetings. I know. I don't think people understand how much work it takes to be a county commissioner because you have the regular commissioner meetings, which are four a month at least. There's one in the morning and one in the evening, twice a month. And then there are the commissioner subcommittees, and then there are, you're on all these other committees, whether it be the health Board, whether it be the community college board, whether it be I mean there's tons of Heritage Commission, whether, you know, I mean, like you're all on at least one or two other boards.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Where you went to school. I know you're an NC State guy.

Mike Rose: Yeah. Yeah. So, if you're from Johnston County, you would appreciate this. I started my first job was when I was 11 years old. I was born in tobacco. And it was one of those things where if you were a kid. You wanted some school money, you needed to go out and get a job. And so a lot of us, in fact, most everybody I worked with was 11, 12, 13 years old and stayed in the, the back of field until I was 17 and got a real job.

And outside of the back field, I say real job, but I'm kidding. So it was nice to get some air conditioning in that, in that first job when I was 17. But besides being growing up here in Johnston County, my first job after college was being a school teacher. Also had a little break in there and went out to Grifols, which was bare at that time.

But like I said, 30 years this year. What's the

Jonathan Breeden: name of the business? It's T-shirt Business.

Mike Rose: Yeah. Quick shirts,

Jonathan Breeden: right? You make t-shirts and hats and pens.

Mike Rose: That's right.

Jonathan Breeden: Anything you could brand for your business?

Mike Rose: Pretty much anything. Promotional items. Yeah. But wearables primarily like, embroidered items, corporate items for hats, polo shirts, jackets, and then screen printed t-shirts for five Ks and events and stuff like that.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, that's cool.

Mike Rose: Yeah. That's cool.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. So how many employees do you have?

Mike Rose: Six. Six? Okay. Yeah, so I know,

Jonathan Breeden: I know they largely run it now. 'cause you're mainly accounting commissioner.

It was two were hard and there were a lot of bills to pay. And there was a, a job I took over in Afghanistan for to kind of catch up for a year. And it was very rewarding. Worked as a army contractor on a arm, on a base right outside of Cobble for a year. So that was very interesting. And yeah, then was came back, was on Princeton Town Board for 11 years before I got this position with the county.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and you've earned what you've earned and you've got a lot of great experiences

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: being a small business owner and an elected official for many years of the Princeton Town Board. I know, you were very happy and had a big smile on your face at the ribbon cutting of the new library there.

Mike Rose: Yeah,

Jonathan Breeden: the community building.

Mike Rose: That's right.

Jonathan Breeden: I mean, I know you worked hard on that for many years.

Mike Rose: We did, we did. We started that project before COVID and at that time we had purchased that building from, of the Lions Club years ago for a fraction of what we paid, I think about $17,000. They owed some money basically and just wanted to get out from under. So we took it and we're planning on putting some paint, maybe some new sheet rock and fixing it up a little bit.

And we were able to get some grant funds from, from the state and a lot of local. People donated money and we wound up kind of scaling back our grand idea, simplifying it a little bit, but come up with a great building that serves the community and we're able to do it for, with no financing.

So that was a big plus 'cause we, even on the town board, I think all of us agreed that we. We wanted something great, but we didn't want to put our taxpayers at a burden for, you know, a long-term debt. So we were able to do that.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, that's good. That's good. And I know that the taxpayers in Princeton, you were not on there, but they.

They didn't get a budget, neutral budget this year. And, and probably it was a significant tax increase, much more significant for the Princeton town payers

Mike Rose: mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: than, than what the county did. I know that wasn't, you weren't on that board then. But you know, I, I'd love to have the mayor come on and talk about that.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Which I, I think is a lot. I'm not elected in these places.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: It is what it is.

But let's talk about what the County. You did vote for the County budget.

Mike Rose: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: The county budget essentially created a 20% tax increase for most of us. You know, they, yeah, the tax rate was cut significantly. The taxable income had gone up 70% and the budget ended up being about 20% more than the previous year. Explain that process. You were in the middle of it last time, why you thought that was a good budget? Why we needed that extra money. And where we go from here.

It's a lot, but we did go through it and we looked very hard at everything that we could and in this situation when you had a reval, so I kept thinking about my parents and other older people that I knew around the County and how it was gonna affect them. And unfortunately. There was no tax rate that we could set that was gonna affect everybody equally.

And I actually did a little bit of math today, so I brought, brought a few, few, little bit of cheat sheet here with me. So I had a couple, my parents for example, I went, used their. Their value their, their house before the reval was $147,000 and afterwards three 50. Okay.

So you see what we're coming up with we're the problem. We have. We had I had another family member that their house went from $47,000 tax value to $179,000 tax value, and you couldn't, she couldn't really argue that that was not accurate because that's how much she paid for the house. So, you know, in that, in that situation I think that we would've had to get the tax rate down to 17.60 cents for her not to have seen a tax increase.

So when people say that there was, we, we increased the tax, yes, the overall number did go up there. There were about, according to our, our tax office, about 10% of the people in the county did see a decrease, an actual decrease. And I would like to remind everybody too, that our county commissioners.

And, and now that growth is, is gone that way. All the. We can say it was the tax office that assigned that, that value to the house. It was, and you and I know both know it was the market that assigned that value and that the tax value just put the number on it. But, but the market, that was what, what drove that?

And, and anybody, I urge anyone who feels like the number that they, that there was, that was assigned to their house was. Not accurate to appeal and, and get it right.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah, I, I did appeal mine.

Mike Rose: Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I won.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Shockingly enough I won

Mike Rose: Oh, good.

Jonathan Breeden: The appeal. But I was very fortunate. Yeah. I had gotten an appraisal.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: I don't know if people realize that, but like it's gone up $160 million in six years or something. Some of that's inflation, some of that's growth, but I mean, that's what I mean.

That's a lot.

For example, our courthouse hasn't been updated in about 50 years. You can imagine how many court cases are going through the court system now compared to 50 years ago.

Jonathan Breeden: I, I, I know. I, I've been here for 25 years. Yeah. And I think the courthouse edition was built in the early nineties.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: And nothing really has been done.

With that since it was built, and you think about how much bigger Johnston County is now.

Mike Rose: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, and the original courthouse goes back to the 18 hundreds. Yeah. You know, you know, and so it's a lot. No, you're right. And, and look, the county has a billion with a B. Building needs. Not counting schools.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: All people realize listen to this. Yes. Yeah. It's a billion with a B. DSS needs a building.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: We just got a new jail.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: We need a county administrative building. The tax office needs more room.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: We need more court rooms.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Mike Rose: they can't pass a budget.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. I mean, and the, and the legislature at this point is not passed a budget. Yeah. So, and now you've got, you know, as you were just at a County Commissioner meeting where the County clerk of court is there asking for county money to fund state positions in the clerk's office. Because the court, the legislature hadn't passed a budget and she's got all this growth and she's trying to deal with it.

So, I mean, it's just, we had the same problem with the DA's a few years ago.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: So it's a lot, tell the public some of the things that are in that billion with a "B" buildings that the county needs today that it's gonna have to build over the next 10 years.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Mike Rose: So for the County to fund that, what we have to do is look and see, you know, at the end of the day, we wanna serve our constituents. We are in customer service business. We want our customers, which are our county citizens to have the best possible service that they can. So do we have to pick up the slack sometimes when the state drops the ball?

In the past we had to do it with the DA's office. And so, you know, right now it's, no vote was taken today, but it is under advisement and we're considering. But back to the buildings. Yeah, when you look at the courthouse now that it is packed with administration, with tax office, with so many things that aren't court related. And they desperately need space. In fact, we were being threatened with lawsuits if we don't give 'em some more space.

DSS right now is packed to the gills in five separate buildings, a few that we're leasing and we're trying to get all that centralized into one location. That's another huge, I would imagine the two of those together, just off the top of my head, or probably a quarter of that billion. And then you've got the school needs that you were talking about, right? You know, Clayton High School is coming up and they, they was chosen in previous boards not to have a bond referendum random. But that goes back to one of your questions about why is the budget having to be increased? Well, part of it is because voters passed bond referendums. For schools and, and, and buildings.

Why is there so much money in the fund balance?

Jonathan Breeden: I agree.

Mike Rose: I've heard that. I agree. Say that You've heard me talk about that. Yeah. And so, I had somebody ask me that the other day who, who was actually a, a supporter and said, and I have to ask you about the fund balance. And so, it's kind of like this, if you, if you were going to buy a house and you went to buy it, and they said, how much money do you have in the bank?

And you said, well, I don't have any money in the bank. They're not gonna loan you the money for that house, you know? And so in our situation, there's gonna be a lot of needs. And like you said, when it's nearly a billion dollars in needs over time, we're not trying to do this all at once. You've gotta have some money to start off with because credit agencies, the LG C's gonna look at you and say, do you have the ability to pay this loan back if you're borrowing $130 million, for example?

Plus, we actually, people are, are competing to loan us the money and gave us $9 million back that we can put toward debt service. So. The county's in a, in a really good financial situation. But, but over time, and this is what Sbit don't see you a lot of times, maybe we should do a better job, is when you look at a 10 year projection, a 10 year model, you see that fund balance dropping down because it's going into these capital needs projects.

And that ties back into that rate we set. We were trying to pick a rate that was as low as possible, that would be as painless as possible. To, to our citizens, to grandma that, you know, has been here for 50 years that doesn't want anybody to move here. We, we get that. There's those, those people. And so we, we need to try to set a rate.

That could be just as low as possible, but could still fund the government, the, the county government provide the services, the schools, the sheriff's department, everything at a, at a quality level. And, and I am praying that this year when it comes budget time, that that number can either stay the same or go down.

But we, we didn't want to shoot too low. 'cause if we shot too low and then had to go up next year, that would be horrible. And so I think that the number right now, as, as, as the revenue's coming in is, is, is looking like a pretty solid number.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, that's good. That's good. And you know, I, I've always thought the fund balance, I mean, it was like, was it 40%?

Jonathan Breeden: Right, right. I right, I, I I just thought it was too high.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: I, I, I understand the AAA bond rating. I understand. Need to have savings. We all like to have savings. I'm a small business owner. You're a small business owner. I get it. But I just thought it was, I thought it was too high.

Given what else we were trying to do. I don't have a vote. I'm not in there.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, but I mean, I am happy with some of the things y'all have been able to do and some of the projects that are coming.

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Jonathan Breeden: So why should the voters give you another four years? I mean, why do you wanna do this another four years? I mean, you're 14 months into it.

Mike Rose: Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, it's 2, 3, 4 meetings a week.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You gotta come out here and talk to people like me.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, you're in parades and fire departments. I mean.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Mike Rose: So that's a good question and I think it, I was thinking about, somebody else asked me that question recently, and I think it's kind of the satisfaction of seeing things completed and seeing things done. It's like, if you've ever bought furniture from IKEA, putting it together is no fun. But when it's all done and you can look at it and go, I did that, I completed a task, I made this thing a little bit better.

That's the satisfaction that you get out of it. There's a personal satisfaction of, you know, you see the people who sit on the sideline and they gripe about everything and then there's some that just wanna roll up their sleeves and try to get it get it done. And that's me, I just feel like with the town background that I had and like I said, my life experiences. I just wanna make, I have a good common sense Johnston County approach that, you know, we're gonna try to make our county as quality of life friendly as possible. And, and so that's, that's why I run for it.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I mean, so. Everybody wants to talk about the growth, right?

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

And I know how hard the housing can be, and I know how expensive housing is, and I think we need more housing because we've got too many people. There's the other side that thinks we shouldn't have any more houses. So the Draw Bridge, I'm here, the Draw Bridge. Nobody comes here. You know what I mean?

You know, I know Bill Stovall is in that camp. He's on the board of Commissioners. but like. where are you at on that? Like, because I mean, we're getting ready to get a new uniform development ordinance at UDO that's been in development for years. Hell, it was in development before you got there.

We've, now it looks like it's about ready to be passed in the next 60 days.

Mike Rose: Presented.

Jonathan Breeden: Presented, yeah. Like, so, I mean, where are you at on that?

It was like two bats and one glove. And so, you know, so I've seen the growth. I grew up, like I said, born in tobacco and riding the rural roads And it does hurt your soul to see just how this popped up in those fields and the kind of growth that is happening in some of those places.

But having said that, I'm a realist and I understand that there's a balance between what government should do and what private owners should be able to do with their land. And so it is not the County to me or the county government who is who's making houses appear, or you know, businesses appear, private owners have land and they're willing to sell it.

So. Where I'm at on that is I'm a realist. I realize that the, the, the county is gonna grow. And so I just wanna be a part of trying to make sure that it grows in a proper way and that we're not some people will say unbridled growth or something like that, that that's not the case. That there's, there's growth, but it's responsible growth and it's, it's grown in a smart direction.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and I, and I think we, we've done a pretty good job of it, I believe. And, you know, as a county, I mean, it's a very you know, a very good place to live.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: People want to be here. You, you know what I mean? I go back to what you were talking about, talking a little bit about economic development and I mean, sort of the last question. You know, the commissioners have been very proactive in economic development.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Mike Rose: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: You talk about getting pride, right? Yeah, absolutely. Like, like, like here I am I'm in these meetings, I can't tell anybody.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: We don't know what it's gonna be, but I'm like, we gotta try to get this space because it could be anything.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: And who, who knew?

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: It would become amazing. One of the leading, I mean, you're talking about national safety, right?

Like we about Vulcan and, and precious metals and what China's trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. In Benson. And I get to now say. I had a very small part in it on that board with Chris Johnson and Ed Aldridge and all of them. And, and getting that project to where that building is there, and now Volcan can move into it.

So I know what you're talking about, but talk about what the commissioners do from an economic available standpoint and understand that these grants and stuff are not the County giving money.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Away like I used to think they were. And what you think the county can do to get more economic development? And if you're re-elected.

Mike Rose: Yeah. Yeah. So,

Jonathan Breeden: Or elected for a four year term.

Well, the grant, it is a grant, but technically it is only a portion of the tax that's paid in. So we had a constituent that had read the budget and saw several million dollars in the budget for, you know, ED Grants. And so they were quizzing us about that, and rightly so, it does look, it's in the budget, millions of dollars going out.

But what you gotta look on the revenue side and see that was way more millions coming in. And so it kind of begs the old question of like, would you have rather have 50% of something or all of nothing? And that's the way ED Grants work. So if you've got a company that's coming in and they're gonna build a hundred million dollar facility.

When they come, they pay their full amount based on whatever their property value is and they have to meet. And if they don't meet their employment goals and they don't meet other goals, then they don't get that grant back. And so that grant could be 50%, it could be 35%, it could be different amounts based on, on, on what our economic development, team de decides would be the best to get that project on board, but. But yeah, I just want everybody to understand that it is not your tax dollars. It is literally the, the a portion of the property tax of that new company going back to them as a grant. And it stops usually after a short period of time, four, five years.

And then over the next 40, 50, 60, 70 years, they're paying that full amount for them, for them ever.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, that was the part I used to forget, and I used to give the commissioners grief about these incentives. 'cause I, I didn't completely understand them and I think they ended up putting me on that board, so I would leave them alone.

Mike Rose: Yeah, yeah.

Mike Rose: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: As Chris Johnson says.

Mike Rose: That's right.

Jonathan Breeden: And have more jobs in Johnston County instead of having everybody so many people going to Wake County. And then these industries, of course, build the tax base. They don't, you know, the buildings don't go to school and the buildings don't need DSS

Mike Rose: Exactly.

Jonathan Breeden: The buildings don't go to the courthouse. And, and that's how you can do it. And I know. Houses are, can be a losing money proposition the way county government is structured in North Carolina. But, but that is how you get more commercial.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: That is how you get more buildings. It is how you get more of the restaurants people want

Mike Rose: mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: And stuff like that.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Mike Rose: mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: That are, that are having to lay off staff. They're having to, that they clerk's office is getting smaller

Mike Rose: mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: Because they have fewer filings at the courthouse. Like, like, like these are all. Good problems to have

Mike Rose: yeah

Jonathan Breeden: in my opinion.

Mike Rose: I agree. I agree. I, I've been in a lot of meetings over this past year with commissioners from other counties and to hear those things, like if we lose four more kids, we're having to close the school or our hospital's closed and now we've gotta drive, you know, an hour and a half to go to the nearest hospital.

Those, those are the kind of problems we don't want to have and we're not having thankfully. So, we say that all the time. We're thankful to live in Johnston County. Yes, we have problems. Yes, we're working on 'em, but we'll take our problems over their problems.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. Well, last question I ask everybody, what you love most about Johnston County?

And and, and I love to, I love not only people, but I do love its proximity to, to. Everything from, from our, our farms that are still here in the county. I, I love to, to our amenities, to where our areas are growing up. Our municipalities are growing up and you know, like a lot, I've heard a lot of people say, you know, why can't we have nice things?

Well, we're we're getting those nice things. And, and I, and I like to see those. And the more that we can get those nice things, those shopping centers, those things. That's sales tax revenue. Sales tax revenue displaces property tax revenue. So the more we can get those things tourism dollars. Sales tax money coming and being generated, and we're not driving to Wake County to spend money across the line and Garner and so forth.

And we can spend it right here. That sales tax money, 2% of that sales tax money comes back to Johnston County and stays right here.

It's really, really good. And now we're gonna get the new, the big commercial development in Clayton with the probably is gonna be a Costco, they're near the ABC store on 70.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: And all of that stuff. I mean, it's, it's coming. I mean, if you, if you've been waiting for restaurants and stuff like that and waiting for some of these big box stores, there's now targeted in Selma, like, like it's coming to Johnston County.

And it's coming there because we now have the rooftops and the average income levels to support that.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Mike Rose: Yeah, go to electmikerose.com and from there we'll have links to our social media. And phone number and emails and all that kind of stuff. So just go to electmikerose.com.

Jonathan Breeden: Alright, electmikerose.com.

Mike Rose: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: Until next time, I'm your host, Jonathan Breeden.

That's the end of today's episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.

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