Mari Wagner welcomes Beth Davis from 'Blessed Is She' to the Ever Be Podcast. In this episode, they dive into the theme of hope, exploring its meaning and significance, especially during Advent. Beth shares insights on what it means to live with hope, discussing her work on the devotional 'A Thrill of Hope' and its impact. They also talk about Biblical women and practical ways to nurture hope in daily life. Perfect for women wanting to deepen their faith and find true joy in this season.

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Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to the ever be

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podcast where faith meets lifestyle.

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I'm so excited you're here, whether you're

a new listener or a longtime follower,

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I know there's something here for you.

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful real life conversations

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and actionable steps on how to claim

the full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to Ever Be.

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Welcome back everybody today.

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We have a wonderful guest, uh, the

wonderful Beth Davis from blessed is she,

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uh, on the podcast to discuss the topic

of hope, which is so fitting for advent.

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So Beth, welcome to ever be.

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Hi, thank you so much for having me.

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I'm really, really overjoyed to be here.

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Yeah.

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Well, tell us a little

bit about what do you do?

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What are you about?

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Um, and share a little bit about blessed

as she, I'm sure so many of my listeners

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probably already love blessed as she,

but in case there's some who maybe

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it's new to them, can you just share a

little bit about what you do with them?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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I'm Beth Davis.

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I'm the director of formation

for blessed as she, and I live

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in sunny Phoenix, Arizona.

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Um, and I love Jesus and it's my

joy to be able to share that love

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of Jesus and help women enter into

a personal and loving relationship

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with Jesus through our ministry.

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Um, so blessed is she

just celebrated 10 years.

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Um, kind of hard to believe I've been full

time about seven years and was a writer

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for maybe a year and a half before that.

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So, um, it feels like a lot of my adult

life has been poured into this ministry

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and to watch it grow and become, uh,

what God desires in many ways, kind

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of just a purification of what it's

always been, you know, has been, um,

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really a marvelous thing to watch.

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Um, yeah, so I, I took over book projects

and, and my title changed and I was able

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to begin to, um, form and really pray into

content just in the past couple of years.

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So this is the first advent devotional

that I, um, You know, worked on

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and spearheaded that project.

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So it's a real.

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Yeah, it's a moment I've been waiting

for, for a long time, because I've read

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this Advent devotional probably 10 times.

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Um, and it's, I'm just so eager for women

to read it for themselves, to pray with

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themselves, because it has changed me.

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Literally every time I read it, even

just preparing for this conversation,

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I'm like, I want to kind of refresh.

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And I was like converted all over again.

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It's really that powerful because of

the witness and, um, the beautiful

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charism of writing that Liz Kelly has.

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And she's the sole author

of this devotional.

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Beautiful.

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I love it.

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Well, let's get into it.

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I, you know, we said that the, the

theme of the devotional is hope

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and it's called a thrill of hope,

which I found very interesting.

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Like I don't really feel like

I pair, Hope with like it being

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like a, like a thrilling emotion.

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And so I really do want to just

ask you more about that theme.

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How does, um, how did

that theme come about?

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And like, what all does that theme

of a thrill of hope encompass?

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Why did you guys choose?

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Yeah, I'm sure you've made

this connection, but a

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thrill of hope is a lyric.

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From the Christmas hymn, Oh

Holy Night, A Thrill of Hope.

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I did not make that connection.

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No way!

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Yeah, that's where it came from, I guess.

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Yeah, A Thrill of Hope.

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Oh!

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The world rejoices.

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Oh, beautiful.

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Okay, I love that.

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Yeah.

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But I, I like that word, thrill.

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I think it's really evocative.

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Like, because, As you expressed, I

don't think we, our experience of

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hope is typically very thrilling, but

if you enter into that moment of the

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incarnation, you know, at the nativity

of our Lord, like it is so thrilling.

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There is kind of a swelling in our

hearts and Um, hope rises up, maybe

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even despite ourselves or despite our

circumstances, that things are going

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to be different because Jesus has come.

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And we wanted to capture that in the

title and with the content of this book.

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Oh, I love that.

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And I mean, hope is The theme we are

pressing into in the season of Advent

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anyway, so obviously it is very fitting.

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Um, so talk to me a little

bit more about that.

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Advent is a season of

anticipation and waiting.

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So how would you describe your

role of hope in truly preparing for

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that moment you're talking about?

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The birth of Christ, this

moment of nativity when we

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know that everything changes.

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Yeah, well, um, I'm sure your

listeners are familiar, but each week

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of the Advent season has a theme.

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And so we dedicate in the church an

entire week to the virtue of hope.

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But as the devotional really

gets into, we kind of have um, We

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have a misunderstanding of hope.

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Uh, at least for me, I can say I have

a complicated relationship with hope.

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And I think in many ways, that's

because we don't really know what it is.

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We have a more secular definition

of an experience of hope.

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We equate hope with, um, wishful

thinking or with everything kind of

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turning out the way that we want.

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And that's actually not the definition

of hope as the church describes

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it, as the saints have called it.

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written about it, that hope is a virtue.

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Um, in fact, it's one of the

three theological virtues.

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And in that sense, it is a gift.

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Uh, we are infused with hope.

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It's not something we work toward or

make happen or like think ourselves

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into, but that it comes to us divinely

from God himself, who is the source

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of all hope, who is hope himself.

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And so I, it was important.

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To me just for personally to have

kind of a Renewed and purified

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sense of like what is hope actually?

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Because that complicated relationship

I mentioned really has more to do with

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disappointment And discouragement than

it does with god And so I kind of wanted

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to like define the terms like what is

hope actually what is the role of hope?

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actually and just as we started,

um There's one other woman on our

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team who's Just loves the Lord.

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And we have a beautiful friendship and

we were just kind of talking through, you

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know, themes and like seeking the Lord, we

were just praying together on the phone.

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Like, God, what do you want?

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And this phrase, a thrill of hope, like.

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Came thrillingly to mind for me.

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Like this is it.

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We, I want to want to bridge that gap

between our experience of hope in the

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natural world and this supernatural

hope that really is thrilling.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah.

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That resonates so much with me.

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I think that I've learned a lot about

hope as well in the past few years.

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And I think that.

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It has been a confusing path because

I feel like normally, and especially

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in this Christmas season, we

equate the word hope with like joy.

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Like we see these paired

together so often.

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Hope, joy, and love, you know,

like how, how celebratory, how

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cheery hope, joy, and love.

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And when you're really in a

season where you're pressed.

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To hope and to really like, uh, like

you said, like rely on it being a gift

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because you come to a point where you

realize like, this isn't something

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that just comes naturally to us.

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It really is a gift received by the Lord.

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Then you start to wonder like, why is

it always paired with joy and love?

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And is it, is it always

really that joyful?

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So, um, can you just talk

to me a more about that?

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Just like, What has been your

experience of learning about hope

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and like, what does the Lord taught

you about what hope really is?

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Great question.

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Um, I think for me more often I find

faith, hope, and love together, but almost

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like in a cliche way, like on a coffee

mug and it's like, Oh, that's sweet.

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Faith, hope, and love.

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Yeah.

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But really joy and joy is the same.

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We have this kind of saccharine,

sweet, understanding a surface level

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understanding of what these words mean.

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Joy is a gift of the Holy Spirit

or a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

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Faith, hope, and love are infused

virtues, like supernatural virtues.

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And so when we really get into

them, faith, hope, love, joy

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are actually pretty gritty.

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They're deeper than a feeling.

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They're on the level of choice,

um, really the level of our will.

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And Sometimes our will does not

line up with our experience.

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Certainly our feelings don't

line up with our experience.

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Um, a couple of years ago, I was in

the Holy land and I was at, um, the

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place of the visitation in Judea.

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And we were just visiting this

small chapel, which historically,

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traditionally is the place where

Mary encountered Elizabeth.

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And as you walk into this little

chapel, kind of beneath the church,

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Um, there are murals up all around the

chapel of that moment, and then the

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moments following, you know, Elizabeth

and John fleeing into the wilderness.

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But if you pay attention, when you

walk in, um, there are two murals

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kind of arched right over the

entryway, and you could almost miss

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them because they're really stark.

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One woman is, is dressed in purple.

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Her eyes are closed and she's

carrying a cross in one hand

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and a chalice in the other.

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And she's very placidly kind of

standing with her eyes closed,

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but she seems very peaceful.

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And on the other side is a woman

just draped in green in a barren

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desert and her eyes are wide open.

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And she, it's like, she's looking right

into your soul and her hands, are,

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are clasped and her feet are bare.

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And I, I just recognize them immediately

as faith and hope that this is

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really a personification of hope.

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It's like your eyes are wide open.

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Um, you're not ignoring the hard

things, but you have your gaze fixed

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on the Lord and your hope is in him.

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And that mean, that might mean you,

you have nothing, but you have hope.

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It really is.

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What it means is, is this deep

reliance on God's goodness and his

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reality with those hands clasped

and even like shoeless in a desert.

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Like, no, I choose to hope so that if

I'm honest for me personally, that's

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where hope really got a hold where

I'm like, I don't think I know what

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hope is because I don't feel that way.

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And I don't know that I even

want to feel that way, you know?

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Wow.

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That is really beautiful.

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I, uh, do you know what

the image is called?

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Is there a name for that?

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I would love to look it up.

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I've never found them, but I'll

send you the pictures if you want

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to put it like in your show notes.

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Yes.

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I think that would be so, so beautiful.

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I love that.

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Um, Okay.

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I do have more that I want to ask

specifically about this devotional.

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Um, I was through the description

and it was talking about how it

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kind of walks through the life

of different women in the Bible.

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And so it focuses on Eve,

Sarah, Ruth and Mary.

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So what do you feel like drew

you guys to these particular

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women as examples of hope?

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How do they reflect, um, facets

of hope in their stories?

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Yeah, well, I think we love scripture.

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It's, it's central to our mission

and our ministry at Blessed Issues.

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The core value for us is the irreplaceable

value of the word of God and really that

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we only come to know him and ourselves

through the His word through his, what

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he reveals about himself in his word.

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And it's the same for Liz.

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Liz Kelly has, um, she's

a spiritual director.

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She's a writer.

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She's just saturated in scripture.

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She like speaks just so naturally what her

understanding of the world and her life is

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all kind of through the lens of scripture.

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And so we knew like all of

our devotionals, we wanted

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it to be rooted in scripture.

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And I think if you don't, um, If you

don't root a conversation on hope in

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in the real practical lives of women,

you run the risk of it being that like

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saccharine sweet or theological, esoteric,

and it's like out there and abstract

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versus this is how it looks lived in a

real life, you know, in a woman's life.

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And so we looked primarily through the

Old Testament, um, but kind of wanting to

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capture because hope ultimately is about

like the revelation of Jesus Christ and

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in particular in the advent season, the

revelation of his life and our salvation.

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On Christmas Day.

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We wanted to see that

salvation history unfold.

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Um, we wanted to see hope unfold

through salvation history.

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And you can see in the lives

of these women that their hope.

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Hope grows, hope is purified, and

hope is lived more courageously and

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more confidently the closer we come.

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And so I think we can learn a lot

coming from, like, our first, you know,

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Eve, like, at the fall, the fall of

hope, really, um, she's lost her hope.

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In who God is and who he says he

is and can't we all relate to that?

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And then kind of the implications

of that I think too something that's

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really special about this devotional

is that you're getting women in

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different states of life So for example,

um, we'll take just sarah and ruth.

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So sarah is, is barren, but is married,

and that's such an ache for so many women.

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And then Ruth has been widowed,

and yet her story of God's ultimate

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provision and redemption of

that story is through marriage.

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So, there's kind of a lot of

ground covered in terms of

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the practical experience of

women who will be reading it.

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I love that.

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I love, um, when we're able

to take scripture and really

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apply it to our daily lives.

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And I think I love that you guys

went into the Old Testament.

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I think that's, uh, intimidating

to a lot of people to kind of

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like dive into the Old Testament.

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And I personally have wanted to learn

more about the women in the Bible and

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kind of more about what their stories are.

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So I'm excited to dive into this

one and, and just learn more from

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.

These women of scripture, you describe them as women on their way.

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That caught my eye.

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I, I, I just, I love the thought of that.

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So can you share more about

like, what does it mean to

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be a woman on, on your way?

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What does it mean to be

like a bearer of hope?

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Yes.

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Oh, I love that phrase too.

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To be honest, Mari, the whole introduction

just like moves me to my core.

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Every time I read it, the way Liz lays

out, First of all, her own relationship

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with hope, which is really compelling.

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Like she says, I'm full

to the brim with it.

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And that's something I did.

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It's something God has done for me.

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It's, it's.

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That alone gives hope that like,

I could be a woman of hope.

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I could, my hope could

be full to the brim.

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So much so that it's overflowing and now

I'm a bearer of hope to a weary world.

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And, and bring the joy of Jesus.

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The, the fulfilled hope of

our hearts that is God became

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man and heaven is open to us.

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Like, I, I want to, And I think

it's really important for us to

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be able to live with that kind of

hope and joy and openness so that

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other people experience it too.

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So, maybe that was the second part of

the question about, that's what it looks

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like to be a bearer of hope, but women

on the way, It's such a Liz Kelly way

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to phrase, to phrase that, and it really

captures something so beautiful about

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each one of those women in scripture.

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But I think even more than that, it's

hope for us because you and I, all of

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your listeners, we too are women on the

way, meaning that we're not there yet.

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This is a work in progress.

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Our hope.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Is a work in progress and that's okay.

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Hope grows, um, the virtue of hope in

us grows as we seek the Lord and ask

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him to infuse us with that virtue,

because it's not about working harder.

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It's not about, um, it's not

about doing it on our own.

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And it's really a posture

like our lady of receiving.

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The hope that is already ours.

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I love that.

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And I love how you described it.

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Like it's almost like a journey.

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Like hope itself is a journey and it's

a place where you arrive and then, and

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then all of a sudden it moves and you

have to go back to it and find it again.

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And I think that's been my experience

in hope as well as like those are

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the places where you, the Lord

has given you this gift of hope.

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And you're like, Oh, I found it.

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This is what hope is like,

you know, and there almost is.

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A little bit of a, of a joy in that

even, even if it is amidst, um, waiting

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for an answered prayer, there's still

just like in hope, there's just like

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the joy of knowing who Christ is and

knowing that like our hope is really

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rooted because we know who he is and

that's who we're placing our trust in.

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And that's why we're able to hope

because we know who is behind.

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Um, just mm-hmm, everything really.

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Um, but at the same time.

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I think with anything in the spiritual

life, sometimes you feel like you

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finally grasp something or you

overcame something or you got it.

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And then a few years later, or a

few months later, you're, you're

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back kind of in the same place.

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And you're like, what happened?

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I thought that I already knew what

hope was, you know, I thought I

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already figured it out and you're,

and you're like relearning.

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So I love that you

described it as a journey.

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Cause I think it is.

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And, and through different parts

of our life and different seasons

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of our life, it may come and go.

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And I feel like that's something

that maybe the devotional touches

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on as well, of just like, Hope isn't

something that we can just grasp

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onto a hundred percent of the time.

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Sometimes it, um, sometimes it

flees and flourishes as you,

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as it says in the devotional.

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So can you share more about that?

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Like what are some of the barriers we

feel like that come in between us and

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really feeling this virtue of hope?

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How can we overcome?

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Yeah, I love that question.

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And actually I'd love to just share

it in light of, of what you just

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talked about, but it seems like.

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We finally understand hope and we've like

kind of put a put a stake in the ground

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like yes I'm gonna have hope i'm gonna

believe god and then suddenly it's like

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wait what and I would where I think I

don't want to say challenge But actually

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where I would encourage you and all of

us is that actually hope doesn't leave

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but hope grows so you the hope that you

Have received from the Lord and that

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you've believed in him for in certain

situations, um, in the words of C.

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S.

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Lewis, like further up and further in.

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So then another situation comes up

and we need a fresh infusion of hope,

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kind of like that daily manna for

the Israelites in the Old Testament.

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They were fed yesterday.

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That hope was enough for yesterday.

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It didn't go away, but it's

not enough for the next day.

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There's more and always

with the Lord, there's more.

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So you have more hope than you

think, but we do have to keep seeking

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the Lord because he just desires.

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Even as I'm like explaining this,

I just have this sweet image of

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like a little baby bird, you know?

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And when it's been, um.

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When it's been hatched, like without

its mother, maybe it's sick, like a

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baby bird is fed, like with a dropper.

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And that's kind of what

it's like with the Lord.

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And I think most things with most

grace, it's like their little

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stomachs can only handle so much.

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And so God only expects of us.

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As much hope as he's given us,

and then we have a new situation

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there, there's a new need.

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There's a new urgency

or fear in our lives.

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Well, we need fresh hope for that.

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So again, you have hope, you have lots of

hope, but there's even more with the Lord.

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I love that.

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The thought of that, of just, it's not

really that it goes away, but it's just.

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You, you constantly like your heart

expands almost and is in need of

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more like in the spiritual life.

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I love what you said, like

further in and further up.

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Is that what, is that the quote from C.

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S.

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Lewis?

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Yeah, further up and further in.

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Yeah, further up and further in.

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Um, yeah.

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And I mean, just like,

wow, that's so true.

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Like the, the more we come to know

the Lord, the more we're expanded, the

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more our faith is deepened, the more

our relationship with him is deepened.

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And I loved also the analogy

of the little bird because it.

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He's got to be fed by someone, right?

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He's not going to seek the water

on himself because he can't yet.

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And so that just as a reminder of like,

to be able to grow more in this hope,

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to receive more of this hope, like we

have to be so closely fed by the Lord.

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We have to be so closely seeking him.

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Cause again, we talked about how

It's, it is a virtue and it is a gift.

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Like it's truly a gift that

is received by the Lord.

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And it's not like something we can

just manufacture ourself, which,

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which means we have to be like closely

following him closely, like developing

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that relationship with him and.

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really continuing to

nurture that virtue of hope.

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Um, and so a little bit about that.

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Like, especially I feel like

when we're feeling distant, maybe

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we're feeling distant from God,

maybe we're feeling discouraged.

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Like what are some practical ways that

maybe we can share with our listeners

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of how to nurture that virtue of hope?

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Goodness.

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Yeah.

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There's so many thoughts coming

to me because the truth is we

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need hope every single day.

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We don't only need hope for these.

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I mean, I don't know if you're

like me, but like hope in my

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experience for many years was around

one thing and it was vocation.

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I didn't really see hope as relating to

Just the ins and outs of my daily life.

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But that was again, a narrow, a

limited view, a human view of hope.

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Um, it was really more in line

with that definition of like,

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I want this thing to happen.

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Not actually what the virtue of hope is.

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So, um,

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yeah, I, I would say, first of all,

and this is probably so simple.

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Many of us don't even think about it.

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We have to ask for the virtue of hope.

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We have to ask the Lord to give us hope.

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And there's nothing wrong with

saying my hope is really weak.

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Like I glory and saying to the

Lord pretty much every day.

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I'm so weak.

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I'm so little.

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I'm a mess.

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And that's not something to be ashamed

about that because that place of

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poverty is actually a place of capacity

where God can come and fill us with

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what we need, give us what we need.

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So to just say, I need hope.

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I don't have any hope.

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And live.

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Very beautifully again in

this like opening epistle.

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I just love that she called the

introduction and opening epistle because

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it's a letter from her heart to ours.

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She extends her hope in the same

way that God gives hope as a gift.

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She speaks about how we're

connected as a body of Christ.

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And because she's full to the brim

with hope, we can borrow hers.

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And so I've, I've prayed that.

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And actually the Lord even.

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Um kind of calibrated that a little

for me because I remember after reading

439

this I was just very Hungry for hope

and like convicted that my hope was

440

really natural and human and limited And

I remember thinking like yeah, I want

441

to take her up on that thought I want

to borrow some of her hope and then I

442

thought wait a second I could, you're

telling me I could borrow the hope of the

443

Blessed Virgin Mary who has perfect hope.

444

So I started praying in that way too.

445

So, I would say, like, at a

baseline, the best and simplest

446

thing that we can do is ask God.

447

Like, I don't have a lot of hope.

448

Um, Please give me hope.

449

Infuse me with hope.

450

And then I would say related to that

is to be honest in prayer and to say my

451

hope is lacking because, um, I'm having

a hard time hoping God because I'm mad

452

at you because I feel like you let me

down because this person let me down

453

because I'm still waiting for this.

454

Um, so that honesty in prayer

as well, just kind of opening up

455

when we open up the conversation,

really we're opening up our hearts.

456

That's, that's the gift of vulnerability

and, and God comes in not only with

457

hope because he's not primarily

about solving our problems like, Oh,

458

you're in pain, here's some hope.

459

He answers with himself and he is hope,

uh, so hope comes, but he's coming first

460

and foremost to be one with us, to be

in relationship with us, to comfort us

461

with his very presence, with his spirit.

462

Um, and then I would say, too, not just

because the book is really all about

463

Scripture and walking us through the story

of salvation history through the lens of

464

hope, but I think hope, like most things,

is a beam throughout all of Scripture.

465

And so anytime, You pick up God's word

and you have an intention or a desire

466

and you begin to read scripture through

the lens of hope, the Holy Spirit

467

will unveil connections, stories, um,

versus he'll highlight words for you

468

to help bolster and build that hope

again, the hope that you already have,

469

but grace builds on nature, right?

470

As the church says, so we

may have a very natural.

471

Sense of what hope is and god says, okay,

let's level that up And I think that's

472

what scripture does it elevates it because

god's word is living and active It's

473

affecting something in me as I read it.

474

Gosh.

475

Yeah, that is so beautiful I so resonate

with just that honesty and prayer and

476

just really do um Just like bury bury

yourself to the lord and just be so real,

477

you know, and I think a lot of times we

You know We shy away from that and we feel

478

like either the Lord, you know, doesn't

want to hear that, you know, doesn't

479

want to hear our appointments or, um,

or, or, or that it's just rude to do so.

480

And I think like, there's obviously

a way to be respectful to the Lord

481

while still really just honestly

and blatantly sharing, um, whatever

482

it is that it's on your heart.

483

And even like, just like desperately

asking like, Lord, like, Come to me as

484

hope, please, you know, come fill me.

485

Yeah.

486

Um, I think one more thing

that I would yeah, go ahead.

487

Yeah.

488

Well, I was just going to say,

I actually think it's respectful

489

to be honest with the Lord.

490

Um, even in our more unpleasant

emotions, you know, we might be

491

afraid of coming as ungrateful.

492

Um, we might kind of know in

the depths of us, like I, I

493

don't really have this right.

494

I, I have a sense, like, I know who

God is, I know that he's good, but he

495

doesn't feel very good, so instead I'm

going to pretend, like, and there's

496

something to be said for making an

active faith and, like, cooperating with

497

the grace, making an assent to what we

know to be true, but I actually think

498

It moves God's heart when we bring

him our unpleasant emotions because

499

what we're saying to him is I trust.

500

I trust this relationship enough

that I can be honest with you.

501

Even when it's ugly, even

when I'm a mess, I trust.

502

That your commitment to me, that

you're not going to leave just

503

because I'm angry or I'm grateful

or because I don't understand.

504

So I think it's profoundly

respectful actually to be honest

505

with God in all of its forms.

506

Yeah.

507

I so second that.

508

I love that.

509

The other thing I was going to say

that came to mind as we were talking

510

about like, what can be helpful

for someone that's, you know, Um,

511

just like struggling to find hope.

512

Um, I think something that's

been helpful for me too.

513

And it's funny that I talk about this

in the season of Advent, but it's

514

honestly praying, um, post crucifixion.

515

And so, I mean, we can pray with the

nativity and be like, okay, the Lord

516

is born and there's just this hope.

517

And you just imagine the people then

like, there's this hope of like the

518

Messiah and like, It's almost hoping

the unknown, like they know they were

519

promised a messiah, but they're not

really sure how that's supposed to play

520

out and how they're supposed to be saved.

521

Um, but we know the story.

522

So we, it's like, like I said,

like, we know who we're hoping and

523

we know what we're hoping and truly

we're hoping in the resurrection.

524

Like, we, we see, we, we know

the story of the Lord is born.

525

He goes through his ministry

goes through the passion.

526

He's crucified.

527

He goes into the tomb and then he

rises and something that I feel like

528

the Lord always promises us, right?

529

Is that there is always glory

behind the cross because

530

there's always a resurrection.

531

And so, in those moments, when we find

a lot of difficulty in hoping might be

532

those moments where we just feel like.

533

Either we know the Lord is here

and we just don't really know

534

what the, what the plan is.

535

We don't really know how it's going to go.

536

It's hard to find hope.

537

Or maybe you're in, um, you're relating

to the Lord in the crucifixion where

538

like, you feel like you're laying your

life down and you're not really sure.

539

Maybe like, like why, right?

540

Like why this crosses in your life, or

maybe you're just in the tomb and you're

541

waiting and you're really like waiting

for, uh, yeah, for the Lord to, to, to

542

bring you your answered prayer or to just

show up in your life in different ways,

543

but when we hold on to the resurrection,

I feel like that's, that to me has been so

544

helpful because that is the Lord, right?

545

That is the hope of the Lord of like,

post this cross, there is a resurrection.

546

And I think that.

547

It's almost like, it's funny to

bring it up while we're talking

548

about Advent and the Lord being born.

549

But in the end, I mean, you, in the

beginning, you talked about like

550

this, this whole salvation history

and like, how blessed are we that

551

we like, we have the full picture.

552

Um, at least this is first coming

and how that played out and the

553

promise that we have of a resurrection

in our life too, and that we can

554

hold on to hope through that.

555

Wow.

556

I'm, I'm really moved by that.

557

You're introducing something to

me because I think when we look at

558

salvation history, We're looking

at it from a human perspective.

559

So we're watching it unfold linearly,

but God is outside of space and time.

560

So that little baby born in the

nativity is the same one life that

561

suffers and dies and is resurrected.

562

And so I almost feel like.

563

You have really discovered something

564

powerful.

565

I don't, I'm kind of at a loss for

words because what you're suggesting

566

is, is praying with hope fulfilled.

567

So when we're struggling to hope,

we actually do get to, this is

568

so cheesy, but it's like we do

get to skip to the good part.

569

Like, we do know the end of the story.

570

There is a fulfillment of all of our hope.

571

At two.

572

And again, because we're on earth and

in space and time, even that is like a

573

shadow, that's, um, a precursor, right.

574

Of the beatific vision, but we know

that it's true because he rose.

575

And so to meditate on hope fulfilled

when we're struggling with hope, I

576

think is a really beautiful practice.

577

Well, thank you.

578

That truly is just the Holy

spirit in my prayer life.

579

I'm glad I rested with you.

580

Hopefully that's something that.

581

Yeah, we can all take away and

continue to pray with, but, um,

582

yeah, I guess just to wrap it up.

583

Do you have any other words of

encouragement for our listeners as

584

they enter into this season of Advent?

585

And, um, really, how can they

practically invite Christ to

586

restore their hope in this season?

587

Oh, wow.

588

Yeah, you know, I just not, I, I'm

always a little shy to say this,

589

but the truth is I want every single

woman to read this Advent devotional

590

because I know how it changed my life.

591

It changed my relationship with Jesus.

592

It changed my relationship with

hope because of the anointing on

593

Liz's life and, um, the courage.

594

that she exudes.

595

Liz Kelly wrote this Advent devotional

while she was in the midst of chemotherapy

596

for a second round of breast cancer.

597

And so for for Liz, she called

it her chemo recovery project.

598

And she speaks about how the word actually

affected in her what she wrote about.

599

He leveled up her hope.

600

As she wrote about it and that the power

of that comes through on every page of

601

this devotional, she lived it first.

602

And she said to me recently, like,

if this Advent devotional was just

603

for me, it would have been enough.

604

Like it has that eternal significance for.

605

And now for mine, so we're two for two.

606

And I hear that again and again from women

who have already read it, who we shared

607

the devotional with because honestly,

I just couldn't keep it to myself.

608

Because I think no matter if you're

aware of a poverty of hope in your

609

life or not, the truth is we have one,

because we're, we live in a fallen

610

world, and we desperately need help

to hope, and the way, the stories

611

that Liz told us, tells, um, not only

from her own life, but she shares, um,

612

the stories of other women in her own

life, women in scripture, stories from

613

spiritual direction from her own prayer.

614

There's so much in here about identity.

615

For me, it was a great, um,

relearning that hope is about

616

everything and hope is for everything.

617

So particularly, I think as I was

preparing for For this conversation

618

and revisiting it, I really felt the

Lord highlight, um, just his desire.

619

To deepen our understanding of

our embracing of our identity

620

as, as his beloved daughters.

621

And I think even, even as I say that,

I know we can kind of be numb to that

622

language, but until we know, like in

every cell of our body and, you know,

623

in the depths of our bones that we

belong to him and that he loves us.

624

Um, we still have, we still have

further to go, you know, so yeah, I

625

just particularly for someone who is

not only kind of obviously in need of,

626

or struggling with this idea of what

hope is, but for wherever you are on

627

the spiritual journey, I would encourage

you to embrace this need of hope again,

628

because we have those weekly themes

in Advent, um, and even though it's.

629

It's kind of a slower season.

630

We understand that the truth is it does

move quite fast between those four themes.

631

And so I think taking this time

with a single author to just

632

prayerfully focus on this theme of

hope, my relationship with hope, my

633

relationship with hope himself, I think.

634

Yeah, we'll change every,

every woman's heart.

635

I love it.

636

I'm excited to go through it myself.

637

Oh, good.

638

Me too.

639

Me too.

640

And I'm just so glad that we were

able to have this conversation.

641

Um, just cause like I said at

the beginning, I feel like hope

642

is, is so elusive sometimes.

643

And it's a little bit looked over

as to like what it truly is or, um,

644

almost seems like a fluffy word.

645

Sometimes when really.

646

You get into it and

there's density in that.

647

It is not a fluffy word at all.

648

So, um, thank you for coming

on and chatting with us and

649

helping us grow in this virtue.

650

Where can we find this devotional

more about you and Blessed Is She?

651

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

652

It truly is my joy to,

Talk about the Lord.

653

Talk about this devotional.

654

Um, so it's been my joy.

655

Thank you.

656

Um, You can find Blessed Is She Anywhere

and everywhere online blessedishe.

657

net or on any social media platform.

658

I'd love to connect with you In fact

this year this advent we're offering even

659

virtual small groups If you like want

to go through this with someone which I

660

would highly recommend Um, whether that's

just texting a girlfriend, doing the

661

devotional with your small group, um, but

to kind of go again, go all in on hope

662

in the context of community will deepen

the graces and multiply them for others.

663

Beautiful.

664

I'm so happy to hear about

those virtual small groups.

665

That's something I talk about

all the time at communities.

666

So needed in the journey of faith.

667

So highly recommend looking into those.

668

Well, thank you so much, Beth.

669

This has been such a

wonderful conversation.

670

Oh, gosh.

671

Thank you so much.