This podcast episode features an engaging conversation between Lana and Emerson, where the central theme revolves around the exploration of authenticity and the liberation from self-imposed constraints. Emerson shares his journey through spirituality, the pressures of adhering to a serious persona, and the realization that joy and freedom can coexist with his interests in improv and creativity. Lana reflects on her own experiences of feeling trapped within the expectations of being a spiritual teacher, emphasizing the importance of embracing one's true self without the need for conformity. The discussion delves into the absurdity of societal labels and the liberation found in recognizing that life can be playful and uncomplicated. Ultimately, both speakers highlight the significance of being present in the moment and allowing oneself to fully experience life without the burdens of narrative or expectation.

Lana and Emerson engage in a profound dialogue exploring the intersection of spirituality, identity, and the pursuit of happiness. Emerson shares his journey into the world of spirituality, which began in his childhood, influenced by his mother’s interest in spiritual literature and figures like Michael Singer and Adyashanti. As he navigated through his teenage years and into adulthood, Emerson describes a phase where he felt overly serious and disconnected from joy, attributing this to his intense focus on spiritual teachings. This seriousness led him to question his own spontaneity and creativity, elements crucial for his passion for improv comedy. Helena resonates with Emerson's experience, recounting her own struggles with maintaining authenticity within the confines of spiritual expectations, revealing how this led to anxiety and panic attacks. The discussion delves into the notion of being 'too serious' in spirituality and how this can stifle joy and creativity, ultimately encouraging listeners to embrace their quirks and authenticity in both spiritual practice and life.

The conversation shifts towards the idea of liberation from self-imposed restrictions and societal expectations. Helena emphasizes the importance of allowing oneself to experience life fully, free from the pressures of adhering to a rigid spiritual identity. They explore the dichotomy between being a 'saint' and a 'sinner,' suggesting that true freedom lies in the acceptance of all aspects of oneself. The notion that one can be both lighthearted and serious in their spiritual journey is framed as a path to genuine authenticity. Helena's insights into the absurdity of rigid spiritual roles encourage listeners to question their own narratives and begin to see life as a playful exploration rather than a chore. Through humor and vulnerability, both speakers highlight the necessity of maintaining a sense of playfulness in spirituality and the transformative power of embracing one’s true self.

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Helena and Emerson embark on a candid exploration of spirituality, self-identity, and the nuances of being human in a world filled with expectations. Emerson opens up about his spiritual journey that began in childhood, shaped by his mother’s interest in spiritual teachings. As he transitioned into adulthood, he found himself engulfed by seriousness and a perceived need for discipline, which began to suffocate his naturally joyous demeanor. His struggle to balance spirituality with his love for improv comedy becomes a focal point, illustrating the tension between the spiritual quest for enlightenment and the human desire for joy and spontaneity. Helena empathizes with Emerson's plight, recounting her own journey through the serious nature of spiritual teachings and the subsequent anxiety that often accompanies such rigidity.

Their conversation dives deep into the concept of freedom within spiritual practices, challenging the notion that enlightenment requires a somber or austere demeanor. Helena encourages embracing one’s inherent weirdness and creativity, suggesting that true authenticity comes from shedding the layers of expectation imposed by society or spiritual communities. They discuss how societal pressures and spiritual dogmas can create a false dichotomy of ‘good’ versus ‘bad,’ ultimately leading to feelings of inadequacy and the belief that one must conform to a particular image. By sharing personal anecdotes and humorous reflections, both Helena and Emerson advocate for a more fluid approach to spirituality, where joy, creativity, and authenticity flourish. The episode invites listeners to reconsider their spiritual journeys, emphasizing that one can be both playful and serious, transcending the need for rigid identities in favor of a more liberated existence.

Helena.

Hi, Emerson.

How are you doing?

I'm good.

How are you?

Good.

Pretty good.

So tell me a story and what got you here?

Sure.

Okay.

Jumping right into it.

Yeah.

Cool.

Well, my mom and my brother listen to you watch your YouTube videos, and they recommended you.

And basically my mom, I remember her reading spiritual books, like, ever since I was a kid, like, really young.

And so I kind of grew up in that, like, mindset of, like, spirituality and.

And being exposed to different teachers.

The first time I started listening to any teacher was probably Michael Singer when I was a teenager.

Okay.

And then I didn't really take it seriously, but it felt.

It felt good.

Yeah.

And then when I was probably, like, 19 or 20, I went on retreat to Francis Lucille with my mom about twice.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

That was cool.

It wasn't.

It wasn't.

I wasn't really resonating with it, but, yeah, I just did it.

And then if university happened and I was, like, consumed with that, you know, whole thing at the time.

My mom started following someone else in our hometown.

Her name was Gupreet.

And we all kind of got into Caprit for a bit.

Okay.

And then I stopped and life took over again and I moved to Vancouver, where I currently live.

I love Vancouver.

Yeah, I remember watching your one on ones used to live here, so it was cool to hear you talk about it.

I am the east fan.

Okay, cool.

I like Eastman.

Yeah, Eastman's rad.

I love it here.

A.

Cool.

And then on my own accord, sort of without the influence of family, my mom, I got into Eckart for a bit.

And then almost exactly a year ago, I just got really into Adyashanti.

And I remember being alone on Christmas and just watching, like, six to eight hours of Adyashanti every day and sitting and like, meditating and kind of just been watching those videos for, like, hours every day for the last year.

Ish.

And honestly, I feel like I just got became this really serious person.

Like, so serious, and I hadn't felt, like, joyful anymore, and I thought I had to be disciplined.

Yeah.

And it felt a lot like depression and just like, everything lacked flavor in life.

And I do improv and.

And so that's awesome.

I like improv.

It's so fun and it's really cool, except for when you're like, oh, nothing matters.

Words don't matter.

Everything is like, yeah, meaningless.

It kind of.

That had a, like, a depressing nature on me rather than, like, an uplifting one.

So, yeah, it affected my ability to, like, experience joy and see comedy as a fun thing anymore.

Um, and a few weeks ago, my mom was like, hey, this Emerson guy is pretty cool.

Uh, here's a video, check him out.

And I did.

And I probably watched like 20, 30 of your one on, uh, yeah.

And I just like, you were being you and I was like, wow, could I just be me and still do this thing?

Like, I can still be really weird and just like, I don't have to be like a monk.

And that resonated.

And so even though I got a lot of clarity from your one on ones, I really wanted the chance to be here with you because it all stick, I guess.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's.

It's very simple, right?

Because I went through what you went through too.

I got a little bit depressed and I became.

I'm sure you know my story now, so I'm not going to repeat it.

So, yeah, I became like, really serious.

You know, I was like a fun guy before.

I used to go to raves, you know what I'm saying?

And then I became a corporate dude.

And I was still fun as a corporate dude basically.

Right.

And.

And I thought there was something wrong with making money, so I gave it up and I became a spiritual teacher.

I had my first, you know, you know, Kundalini awakening, you know, whatever first awakening, or then I was in love with it, which happened in Vancouver, by the way.

And.

And then.

So I became this spiritual teacher and then the people that I had to look up to her, like Adyashanti, Muji, Rupert, they were all just very somber, you know?

Yeah, I know.

You know, talking about.

Right.

I'm like, yeah.

And then I felt that I had to adhere to that.

Yeah.

And it was killing me.

Like, I.

It, it's.

I went with a friend that was just a really kind of like, brutally honest friend.

And I said, someone kissed my feet today.

And for me, that was the catalyst of, like, get me out of here.

And.

And then, you know what?

To cut the long story short, so when I was just then I became anxious, I had like, severe panic attacks, and I was living life in the extremes.

Like, I'll be a saint and I'll be kind of like a party animal of the opposite spectrum of it, you know, especially in Vancouver, you know, the party scene in Vancouver.

So it's like leading a double life.

I'm like, how can I go back into that?

Just a fun guy.

Yeah.

So in between, you know, the sinner and the saint, what's there?

I know, me.

Yeah.

Let's even go Further, what's between me and no me.

I.

I don't even.

I can't even answer that.

I don't know what to say.

My mind wants to find an answer to it, but there's no answer because it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense.

So seeking doesn't make sense because there's something here that is so authentic, so raw, so alive.

Right.

But it's peace and peace with.

It's almost kind of like this.

This empty space where everything is allowed, nothing is denied.

So be as weird as you can, you know, as funny as you are.

You don't have to adhere to anyone's idea about what this is.

Right.

Because it just becomes authority figures.

And you think that you have to go to a monastery now or contemplate and be aware of.

Aware or what?

Yeah.

But the freedom that is free from all ideas of freedom is at this moment when there's just a blank slate, when there's just authenticity, when there's just this, when you're not second guessing yourself.

You don't have to follow whatever ideas that it has to be to become enlightened or awake or whatever.

Throw away all of that and come into this moment where.

What are you without language at this moment.

I don't know.

Yeah.

You know, in this space, the in between, you know, there's really no in between.

It's just.

It's like a trick.

It's almost like it's between thinking and not thinking.

What's there?

Yeah, that question always stumped me because it's so nonsensical.

Like, like is the purpose, am I right?

Like, is the purpose just to be like, I have no idea.

So if you have no ideas.

Yeah, or the idea.

So what's between idea and no ideas?

It's almost like, you know, where that.

Or that space between where artists create the great masterpieces, where, you know, the great, you know, athletes, you know, do that home run, you know, and all that kind of stuff.

It's in that.

It's in that moment without a thought.

Although thinking is happening.

You know what I'm talking about?

Right.

It's just this clarity without any kind of comprehension of what this is.

It's almost like there's this blank slate, but in a black slate, everything is teeming with aliveness, with creativity.

You know, you can be funny again.

Yeah, but it's so stupidly simple.

Like, but it's.

But then there's nothing to do.

Then there's literally nothing to do.

That's just an idea again.

What's between nothing to do and something to do.

So the mind wants to, you know, kind of like land somewhere, Right?

Yeah, definitely.

So go in between.

You know what, we'll go through layers.

Right.

So, for example, at this moment, what are you without your thoughts.

Like a meat sack?

What do you.

Even without that thought of a meat sack.

I.

There's no words like.

Yeah.

It's like.

You know, I'm gonna say this, but like.

Yeah.

It's almost like going back into that when you're a baby, when everything is like.

And the baby laughs and cries and smiles and whatever.

Right.

So it's free to do anything without thinking that, oh, it's wrong to smile or wrong to cry.

Yeah.

Wrong to be fun, not funny, or, you know, it's wrong to be a goofy, basically.

Yeah.

There's this freshness to it.

Right.

So when there is, it's almost like.

It's almost like this is a deprogramming of all you thought you have to be when you're listening to Adishanti.

Yeah.

Because you get caught up in that idea.

It's almost like.

It's almost like you got programmed to think that.

Yeah.

So this is a deprogramming, basically.

So I'm happy that you listen to 20, 30 videos.

Right.

Because it's.

It's beautiful.

What's that?

Probably more.

I think there's like.

I don't know, how many?

Like 200 now.

I don't know.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

So it's.

I love.

I love showing that because I love showing the differences in all of those undoings.

Because it doesn't have to look a certain way.

Yeah.

That's what blows my mind.

It's like there's no.

There's no way for this to look.

Right.

Like there's.

There's no way.

Because some people say it's so ordinary and some people say it's so extraordinary.

Exactly.

And I'm going die.

Maybe.

But that's.

Those are just another.

Opinions and ideas about what this should be.

Right.

Yeah.

In between those opinions, a fresh, clean slate of whatever seems to appear as it is.

Right.

So it could be jumping up for joy.

Could be like, meh.

It could be just like.

Okay, you know what?

Sometimes it's so meh.

It's often so meh.

It's often meh.

Yeah, I know.

Because you're so caught up in that.

That programming that it has to be this.

Ta da.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Right.

It's not.

Aha.

Right.

It's just.

Oh, it's almost like you're sobering up to those ideas.

It's like an intoxication.

It's like you had an addiction to go to the next, to the next, the next.

You're waiting to see those thousands of faces that.

That was a Buddhist or something.

Right.

But yeah, there's just not one.

There's eight billion characters here.

Eight different.

You know, eight billion different characteristics.

And.

And even our thumbprints are all different.

Our eye prints are walk prints.

You know that we all walk differently.

I mean.

Yeah.

So why should the apparent awakening or dropping away of the self be the same?

No.

And that's why I love showing the differences in people.

Right.

There's people that are crying.

I don't know.

I don't really.

It's actually people that are crying because people think that it has to be that way.

No, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Those are the ones you see because they're a inspiring, they're dramatic, they're beautiful story.

It could be just a sobering experience.

Kind of like what's happened here, sobering up from all of that.

Right.

It's not.

It's not this.

Yeah.

It doesn't have to be.

Why so serious?

It doesn't have to be serious.

I don't want it to be serious.

I'm.

It's so serious and like, oh, look good.

It doesn't feel good.

Which.

Which comedy show do you go to?

Which improv is it in?

Yeah, I'm in a.

I perform.

I'm on a house team with Blind Tiger, which is a comedy school in Vancouver.

So of shows like Little Mountain Gallery every.

Nice.

And I run like an improv nonprofit community with some friends and we host jams and then I just do random shows here and there.

Oh, it's so east, man.

It seriously is.

Yeah.

But yeah, you know, go back into that.

Go back into that.

Into that innocence and that freshness.

Remember when you got first excited about improv?

Yeah.

That's what I'm talking about.

Screw all of this virtual non duality crap, to be honest with you, because it will just bring you to a belief system.

Because the moment that you believe somebody, you're believing that you have to be that certain way.

Yeah.

You believe that.

Either you believe it's all awareness or it's no self or whatever.

But those are just words.

Who cares about words?

I think a big part of who cares who.

Yeah, who cares about words?

And yet when you have habitually held on to words and feelings and like attach them together for so long, I mean, that bond is strong.

Like, oh, it is.

It's rip.

It's not ins.

It's not going to be instantaneous, then.

No, no, no.

So.

So this is a gradual.

You've already watched the 20 video.

20, 30 videos.

And this is kind of like a gradual undoing.

Some people snap out of it.

So some people that have been suffering so much, you know what I'm saying, that are just so caught up.

Yeah.

The moment they give them.

I get letters all the time of people that basically said, oh, I watched your video and I balled for the whole day.

That kind of thing.

And then some people are like, yep, you know what?

I've always known this kind of thing.

I've seen how simple it is.

But for you, it could be just.

How long were you listening to Adyashanti and all of these people?

I mean, Adia was like a year.

Exactly a year from this day.

I went through my Adia phase too.

Like, I.

I devoured everything from him, Right?

Devoured all.

Multiple.

Multiple.

Sometimes.

Yeah.

And now he's quit because of ptsd.

He's getting treatment for ptsd.

No kidding.

Yeah.

So that's what I'm saying is it's edited versions of the character.

I love him, you know, I'm saying, yeah, you know, he's awesome.

But you're seeing edited versions of what it is.

That's why I'm so blunt about this, about me.

It doesn't have to be this saintly thing.

You know what I'm saying?

No, I know.

That's why I like you.

Like, I'm looking at this guy.

I'm like, he's just a dude, like, just cutting.

Cutting through the grease.

And it's like, why.

Why doesn't that exist more?

Like what?

Well, you know what?

There's people now that are doing what I'm doing.

So there's kind of like a new wave of this that's gonna probably happen.

Right.

I was just.

When I was reluctant as a speaker to.

To speak all over again, I kind of like, you know, I.

I burned a lot of bridges and I was a mess as a teacher.

I did a lot of silly things, you know what I'm saying?

And.

And I regretted so much of it.

Right.

So.

And I was in suffering big time.

Right.

Because it was just rough to be.

To be holding so much power in position and everything.

And.

And everybody's looking up to you.

Like, I just shanti.

You know, I'm saying, or of these people.

And.

And when.

When.

When it was getting out of hand.

I just.

I just sabotaged everything.

Yeah.

I just.

I had to kill the character.

I.

I didn't even care at one point to look like a.

The bad guy.

You know what I'm saying?

Because I could not do it anymore because I noticed when I was spiritual teaching kind of like what everybody's doing or non duality teaching or no teaching doesn't matter.

There were no people getting out.

I know.

Like, I look like my mom's been in this for her whole life, like since I was born.

Oh yeah.

Just following and following.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's.

It's almost like a curse, right?

If you, if you see it.

It's almost like when you seek, then there's a curse that you will never get there.

There's watery system now.

Like, you know, then you, you become a bit more.

More kind of like dedicated because I'm like, I'm the.

I'm going to be the one that wakes up that kind of thing.

But that's just that.

That's just another carrot.

Oh yeah.

I'm so tired of the carrots.

Yeah.

So there's no more next.

If you eliminate the next.

What's here.

I don't know, like everything.

Nothing.

Like I don't.

This.

Yeah.

What's between this and not this?

The mind will try to say not this.

Right.

But eliminate that because that's the next.

Every time you ask for what's in between, my mind just freaking goes berserk.

Yeah.

Of course it's showing its irrelevance basically.

Right.

Because the mind will try to go here.

It's from.

To be.

Right.

So could you just.

Could like is this.

Could could another question be like, what's the difference between frog and blue?

Like it seems like you're just asking the question that the mind can.

I'm just being silly, to be honest with you.

Right.

Because I've tried many different ways of trying to, you know, and it be.

It still became a lottery system, you know what I'm saying?

And like I would, I would ask a whole bunch of questions.

Like the classical question.

So this one is just, Just what's between A and B is basically what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To what's between two concepts?

I don't know.

Another concept.

Yeah.

What's be.

Yeah, it's.

It's what's between.

Yeah.

That's what it is.

If you peel away all the language, what's left?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

What are you looking at?

Without words?

Magic.

Yeah.

Right.

So we're.

We're kind of like we're overlooking the magic because we're so accustomed to the words that label them.

So accustomed.

So accustomed.

Like, you know, when I was.

When I was seeking, when I.

Even when I was a teacher, I meditated four or five hours a day and.

And then when I went back when there was already no, no more seeking, when there was clarity, I bawled my eyes because I was like, I haven't seen Vancouver.

This is the first time I'm seeing it.

Oh, yeah, well, it is, right.

Because we're caught up in YouTube videos and books and stuff like that.

When every day should be a hiking day.

You say it's.

Yeah.

Gorgeous.

Right?

Yeah.

And then.

But there's still preference that.

What.

What.

What caught me up a lot was there's still preference or this idea of preference.

Like, what are you.

Without that belief.

Oh, yeah.

See, no.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I told myself I'm not an outdoors person, you know?

Yeah.

That comes out now.

It's like, oh, my goodness.

I'm like, outside, like, trying to be outside, like half of the day, basically.

Even when it's like freezing cold here, it's.

It's amazing.

Even one day I was walking was really gray outside, and I started.

Because I didn't have any language, I was like, oh, my goodness, how beautiful this gray is.

It makes the contrast.

The colors bright is language, like, so language.

Language is literally doing that.

Yeah, Languages is doing.

Language is upholding its own.

It's.

Yeah.

If you.

If you kind of like, if you take away the words, it's the unspoken paradise.

It really is.

Yeah.

It's like when you're thinking, it's like dystopian.

You know, we have all of this wars.

If you take away the words, it's almost like utopia.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

In the immediacy of this all.

Like, I have.

I have been to.

I'm come from the Philippines.

Right.

And.

Right.

There's a lot of poverty there and the people are happy.

They're kind of like, there's this.

Kids that are diving for coins.

So you would throw coins down the ocean and they would dive, you know, and grab it and.

And they have a can of sardines and they're in heaven.

And then here we are with like, I don't know how much TikTok and Instagram influences our purchases.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Ads, ads, ads, ads, ads.

You know what I'm saying?

I know.

And then.

And then if you think that you're not getting gone into that, you're buying this virtual ads.

Retreat here, right?

You.

You just bought into this spiritual materialism.

You're consuming YouTube videos and it's still consumption, right?

Totally.

But it's still part of it.

Like, it's still.

Like, I don't even.

Like, if there's no good and bad, then.

Then it doesn't matter if you're consuming or not consuming.

Doesn't matter.

But what I'm just trying to say is that we're so.

It's.

It's not.

Not that we already have thoughts we're consuming or there's nothing wrong or right about that.

I'm just pointing out is that we're overlooking the simplicity.

You're like, big time.

Yeah, big time.

Huge.

Huge.

Right.

It's like, it's.

It's like my morning walks is the best entertainment for me now.

It's like, it's unbelievable.

But to me, though, that was so.

You know, like, I thought that I had to meditate so I could secure my peace and everything.

Right.

So sitting in my room, you know, for.

For hours and hours, and there's nothing wrong with it, you know, I'm just basically saying in the narrative, in the.

In the relative.

Right.

I'm trying to go from relative to absolute when it's all.

But you can't say already.

Yeah, it's so true.

I mean, and sometimes that part of you that enjoys, like, the really simple nothing, like the morning walks, whatever, before, sometimes, when you're still caught up in the thought, but you enjoy that, it's like you're in conflict because you're like, I love the simplicity.

I love the nothingness.

But I'm not supposed to, you know, I'm not supposed to like it this simply.

I'm supposed to want to go out and do exciting things and do it, you know, so there's like this suffering when.

When you're not clear and yet you.

Want the simple thing.

Yeah.

And.

And that's what it is.

Right?

It's because, like, for example, you know, it's.

It's.

And it starts when we're young, right?

You know, when the simplicity of things.

When we were kids, like, imagine those long summer days, that it was all carefree and everything, and.

And no care in the world, no concept of time.

And it was just beautiful.

Yeah.

Learning about, you know, what's wrong with us if it's not enough.

Society tells us what's wrong with us, that kind of stuff.

And then we strive to.

And then we encounter nonduality.

You're like, oh, here it is, the solution.

And then rather than Making you feel great.

It makes you feel stumped because there's a lot of intellectualization of what this is from.

Really, really great guys.

You know, I'm saying I can't fault them.

And.

And you're like, well, how do I get there?

How do I achieve that?

Right.

Yeah.

When.

When what you are without thinking is already perfection, but what you are already without the narrative is paradise.

You're never separate from that.

Like, for example, at this moment, without the language, what are you.

Like?

I have no idea.

It's like infinite silence.

Right?

Yeah.

And that's the answer to the greatest mystery is here already.

You just have to wait a second.

Oh.

There is the belief that this is not gonna last still.

What are you without the next.

What are you without that belief?

What's between it's not gonna last and it's going to last?

And the belief wants to take you to the next.

Right.

So going.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's beautiful, you know, it's beautiful.

I have people that.

That.

That click, you know, like after like a couple of sessions, one session even.

And there's people that.

People that have been seeking for like 30, 40 years.

Like your mom, probably.

Right.

It's like.

It's a longer thing.

And again, everything, every.

Everyone is unique.

So comparison is a theme of joy.

There's also some people that have been seeking for 50 grabs.

Gets it like one session.

They're like, what.

It's.

Because they've been.

It's.

It's like they have done everything.

You know what I'm saying?

And it's.

It's here.

It was never not here.

You can also go.

It's in between here and not here.

The mind wants to create a bookmark.

Yeah.

In an ocean.

Right.

You can't bookmark an ocean.

It's liquid.

I know.

And you're still asking those questions.

And it's like my mind goes.

And it goes.

What's.

Is.

Is.

Am I supposed to feel totally stumped?

I mean, it's peaceful.

It's really peaceful.

Yeah, it is really peaceful, isn't it?

Well, it's.

It's.

The piece is basically.

It's almost like a.

It's like, you know, I don't know if you've had those, like, old computers that is just full of, like, virus and then it takes a long time to open up.

It's full of apps and stuff like that.

And you're like, you can't.

You know what?

It's.

It's always shutting down.

So you can like, I'm gonna reboot this and you take it to computer shop.

Or you do it and it reboots and everything is fresh again.

So.

Such a good feeling.

Yeah, I know.

And, but.

But the virus will come.

You know what?

But there's an antivirus, which is the in between.

It will keep on coming.

You know what I'm saying?

We'll keep on attempting.

No, no.

Computer is really virus free because it's always attacking, attacking, attacking.

Right.

So the.

The most.

Someone just told me that I have tried everything ever since.

But the in between is just.

It's like it ends all of the tricks.

Basically.

It's a trick to end all tricks.

Basically.

It's a trick.

I mean, it's.

Yeah.

You're just trying to confuse people.

Yeah.

Because all they have is their mind.

So what?

Why did I trick people to see that?

What's the mind?

It's so.

It's such a good feeling to be confused and be like, yeah, I'm okay.

Like fine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because there's nothing further.

There's a different confusion when there's something that, like if I tell you, no, you know, Lana, you have to come into, you know, you have to be disciple and you have to come into my.

Into my sangha, you know, and you have to be here for 10 years or something to my level, or it will take many different lifetimes for you to get here.

No, it's all right.

It's all made up.

It's all.

It's all made up.

All me up.

There are certain things, to be honest, you know, saying, somebody believing that you have to do that.

But what's that?

There's.

It's also.

But I see everything as innocent.

So I make fun of that thing.

But I see it as innocence because someone really, really believes that and they're caught up in their narrative that you know it.

You know, it's kind of like you can only go through this, get this through meditation.

I did 10,000 hours, I thought meditation for 10 years.

Nope.

You know what I got, I got.

I thought I got it and then I was suffering like non stop, basically.

What was that suffering?

Oh my goodness.

Because there was always a next.

There's always going to be like a Muji or ajashan.

Sure.

You know, I'm not quite there yet.

I'm not quite there yet because there's a suffering here.

If I think about the feelings that are coming up right now, like they're not pleasant.

Yeah.

What if you unpeel that feeling was left.

Unpeel it.

Yeah.

Take away the word Feelings.

Sensations.

Yes, sensations.

They go away.

The word sensations was there.

Well, I can't answer that.

There you go.

So it.

It snaps you out of that thinking.

You know what I'm saying?

Right.

Yeah, right.

It's.

It's not bypassed because you're really going directly to see what that is.

It's not like, you know, it's.

It's because I used to have panic attacks and.

Oh, yeah.

Severe depression.

So what happened was I just basically kind of like, bravely, I'm like, you know what?

Because before, I would be like, doing all my mantras, all of my meditation, you know, going to.

This time around, you know, saying, I just.

I'm just going to DJ.

That's the freest place I can be is DJing.

So the freedom of just DJ.

Because what I love.

Yeah.

Basically I went in between doing.

And not doing, and then you just.

And then all of a sudden I saw like, wait a second here.

I can't find my thoughts.

This is all happening by itself, that kind of thing.

I'm like, oh, that's still a thought.

I was just talking to someone that.

She's great.

She's a great friend of mine now.

She's.

She's had a laughing and crying thing, and then she said, I can't form sentences anymore.

She would laugh at a thought.

Right, that.

What's that?

I get that.

You got that right.

I mean, I.

I totally see that.

Yeah.

It doesn't make any sense.

One time I was looking at a.

A word.

I think it was like, Wednesday.

And I'm like, what is that word?

It just looks so foreign.

You know what I'm saying?

It's just like, switch.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know if you've had that right.

It's just like.

And then I'm like.

One time I was, like, reading a book and I was just like, what's going on here?

Oh, I have to.

I have to read, like, a full chapter after this for book club tomorrow.

It's going to be like reading the Alphabet.

That's right.

Yeah.

Try eating an Alphabet soup.

And you're like, what the hell?

You know?

And it's just.

It's just everything is made up.

You look around and everything that you're seeing is just your reality is based on a thought in a language.

Do you feel, like, lonely being here sometimes?

No.

There was.

There was in the.

You know, when I was more into the radical thing, you know, I'm saying more kind of like when I had that, you know, nihilistic idea that there's no one here.

I felt like, you know, every time I felt.

This is so funny, I felt like slashing my wrist and you know, and that kind of stuff, right?

Because it just so depressing, right?

And I think at one point I was just got really, really suicidal.

And it's, it's that Neo Advaita kind of like thing, right?

And where everything just becomes kind of like there's nothing happening.

You know, there's.

There's.

This is just all an illusion.

This is it and everything.

And, and then the, the tendency is to come all.

If there's nothing that I can do, then what am I doing here?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But if you take away that narrative, take away the narrative and basically come into this full on like, directness, then you start seeing kind of like flowers that you've never seen before, you know?

Right.

Or, or you discover, I don't know, like I was, you know, I go into a zone in music and I was like, oh my goodness, this new indie country thing is actually really good.

Right.

So I start.

It's just, it's beautiful.

That kind of thing.

And I was like, you know, I had an aversion to country, you know.

Yeah.

And then I was like, listen to this.

I'm like, what the hell, right?

It's just a hurry after discovery.

Discovery, right.

It's just like.

Or I'm like a child again, basically.

I'm happy.

Yeah.

No, I, I want.

I have a thought which is like, I really hope this helps with my lack of career because I have not been able to land on anything because I'm like, it's so meaningless.

And that narrative that you will not have a.

You know, it's, it's, it, it just derails your life, right?

Because if you start believing that, you know what, it's just, there's, there's no point to this.

Whatever.

Yeah, it did.

I mean, it.

I, I wasn't like hardened spirituality, but like, I've always struggled with career, like just landing on something because I'm like, nope, it's not perfect.

Throw it out.

Yeah.

And this one basically is almost like, okay, this is just a narrative, of course.

Right.

Don't, don't, don't lie to it or anything.

It's almost like, whatever.

This is ultimately trying to find peace and just happiness.

It's always bringing something to the forefront, right.

And if you're at peace with it, then peace happens, keeps on happening.

But when you're, when you're trying to kind of like say, nope, nope, nope, nope, then it's a whole bunch of notes.

Basically, it's just a bunch of no's.

Yeah.

So for example, with this one, I was reluctant to be a speaker, but it just became one of those things that, you know what, So I did it.

Someone could not make it as a speaker.

You know, someone was sick or something.

And then I started speaking and I'm like, oh my goodness, check me out.

You know, there was.

And then I loved it so much that I started articulating it, you know, like I, I would, I would go five days talk about this for like three, three, two hour sessions every day.

Like I would.

Right.

So there's joy, like you can enjoy.

I enjoy it.

And that's why this evolved into this in betweenness or directness.

Because there's joy.

Yeah, right.

Because honestly, when I started, right, it was more like, there's nothing to do, there's nothing happening.

But you know what?

I said, let's articulate this a bit more.

Let's be more poetic about this.

And then something broke through and I was like, oh my goodness.

Okay.

I wanted the audience to feel what I'm feeling because I look like an idiot just laughing about myself.

Yeah, yeah.

I imagine this can be articulated.

Yeah.

Through anything.

Like through food, through photography, through comedy.

Like there's no limit.

People don't even know it.

But the people that are successful in what they do with plava to do are in a non.

Dual, you know, life, basically.

Right?

It's, it's.

I, you know, if it's funny, right, Because I have, I have a lot of artists, like musicians that contact me and also, you know, people that are in finance basically also contact me.

Some people reach the top of life and there's something missing.

But they, they get what I'm saying because they've been there like for a person that has done a concert basically right there.

Like, how do I get back there?

And I'm like, okay, or some people lose their mojo or something.

And for me, like, you know, when, when I admit, you know what, when I started as a spiritual teacher, I loved it very much.

But it was short lived because I had to put on a costume now.

I had to, I had to censor what I was doing.

Like, I remember one time I was just having one beer and then a person came to me.

You should not be drinking beer.

Everybody looks up to you.

Yeah.

At that time I was like thinking, I'll be one of the first people that drinks beer.

And you know, and there was just one beer.

And so I went into kind of like.

Yeah, complete opposite.

Like, I was just not vegan.

Vegan.

And then, you know, not drinking.

Of course, when you do that, when you press yourself so much, the rebound is high.

So I kind of like when.

When I thought that I had to destroy the character, I bought a pack of smokes, went partying, you know.

Yeah.

Grand street, you know, just.

And I was just like.

I'm like, what's going on here?

Right.

So what I'm trying to say is that the more that you're oppressed, it persists.

There's nothing wrong with just being alive.

There's nothing wrong with being messy sometimes.

I mean, I'm vegan and I don't drink, but, like, I also like that.

Yeah.

And that's cool, too.

If you like that, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Right.

For me, it was.

I was forcing it, like.

Yeah.

Fair.

Never enough.

Right.

I was.

I was vegetarian.

Pescatarian, vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan.

And then I became fruitarian.

I was only eating fruits that fell off the tree.

Yeah.

And then I became Breatharian.

So I'm an extreme character, basically, Right.

It's like, I party or I.

Can I go to the extreme.

So I went in between, basically.

I'm like, okay.

It's okay.

I still love meat.

The restaurant meat.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

Every time I go there, I'm like, oh, I have to go to meet.

You know, saying.

It's just one of my favorite ones.

It's like the best comfort food ever since vegan.

Right.

So, man, I remember Adia said something.

It was like, if everyone woke up, you know, the world would be absolute anarchy.

Like, insane insanity.

Yeah.

And that's coming out now because it makes me think, like, if there's no good or bad.

Yeah.

Well, then what's.

Then what?

Like, oh, it's between good and bad.

Whatever's appearing is this.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Just gonna be the same.

So that's.

That's.

That's just another time with you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just an opinion.

This is an opinion.

Yeah, it's really.

Yeah, yeah.

See, that's what I mean.

Right.

So it's kind of like then you have this fear now that, you know, that I have to.

Oh, my goodness, I'm gonna start eating meat.

That kind of thing.

You don't have to, you know, but.

It'S okay if I do, and it's.

Okay if you do.

But.

But whatever you.

Whatever it is, it's like if.

If that's your bliss, you know, that's your Bliss.

So that's your peace.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what, like, it's like, what do you like?

So then do anything, right?

Like there's no wrong answer.

Like just do something.

Like, I just need to.

Yeah.

Make my, like just live my life and I'll, you know, do the dumb things I want to do.

Yeah, you do some things.

Yeah.

And for, for me, that was kind of like, so.

Because I was a saint for like, you know, 10 years or so.

And then one time, this is one time a DJ'd.

And then I went home and my roommate goes, hey, can you buy me some beer at 11am and I was walking down the street and someone yelled, degenerate.

And I'm like, oh my goodness, I love that.

I haven't been a degenerate in my life.

Right.

This feels good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But what's between a degenerate and a saint, basically?

Right?

Whatever seems to appear, they just words anyway.

And if you start noticing it, what's between choice and no choice?

Okay.

Yeah.

That one, that one gets me.

Because I hear people on your one on one say, like, there's no choice.

There's no free will.

And I'm.

I'm thinking that can't be true.

Like it's in between choice and no choice.

Oh, yeah.

Boo.

Right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's trippy.

That's wild.

It is.

You think that you're choosing, but what you're not thinking.

Is there really a choice?

I love that.

I love when you're like, gotcha.

I love it too.

Because, you know, because we get stuck in these ideas.

You know what I'm saying?

And now it's.

Everybody gets stuck in these ideas.

Oh, it's going between.

When there's just.

Oh, you don't even have to say it.

You're like, oh, it's quite simple, right?

It's simple.

The simple is like, you don't even need language.

But since we have basically screwed it up with a whole bunch of complexity, whatever this is, right?

It's kind of like, I like that song by Joni Mitchell.

Don't you know?

You don't know.

Yeah, yeah.

Great song.

So we.

We pay paradise with language and doesn't.

Have to be self freaking heavy.

Like, no, it can be fun.

It can be fun.

It can't.

It's.

It's allowed to be fun.

And I, I sound like a person who's never had fun before.

Like, I live a very.

Like I've.

I don't have a job.

Like, I've just been like, I dropped out of my computer science degree.

Like, I used to work in chemistry.

Like, and I was just like, basically like hitting myself over the head every single day for not choosing this serious path.

And I'm like, I just want to stream on Twitch and do photography and cook food and.

Yeah, right.

That's just because you think that you did, you made some wrong choices and you think you're making the right choices.

What if it's just all innocence?

Everything is happening as it is.

Everything suddenly seems so fun.

Right?

Isn't it fun now?

Because I'm choosing, because I'm choosing for it to be fun.

I could also be like, everything's miserable, it doesn't really matter.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what I'm saying.

What's between choosing and not choosing?

Right?

There you go.

Yeah, right.

I mean, right and not right.

Like, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter.

Language.

So, yeah, yeah.

That's what happened to me is because I became this, you know, I was like in my mid-30s, turning on 60.

Yeah, I'm 30, I'm 31.

That's around the time, you know, like in my mid-30s, that it became a spiritual third teacher, basically.

Right.

It's like here was like, you know, super fun guy, life of a party kind of thing, dj.

And then I thought there was something wrong with it, so I, I thought that I had to go to spirituality, which was great, to be honest.

I'm not going to discount it completely.

You know, when you have to meditate at 5:00 every morning, you stop drinking, kind of thing, benefits, you know, look at, look at, look at that.

But when I went to the next level, what I wanted to go to the next level.

Medicine.

The meditation was just a self preservation mode.

Yeah, totally.

Preservation mode of I have to be a saint, you know, oh, I have to meditate.

You know, I would be invited to someone's house and they would, they would be partying or whatever and they would like, catch me in the morning at 12 o'clock, meditating in the bathroom room.

That kind of like it.

Or, or, or my friends would be like, what the hell is going on?

Emerson?

Yeah, yeah.

Or something.

You either get, what the hell, or you get, wow, good for you.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

How do you, how do you do that?

Do that?

Like, oh, you know, Discipline.

Yeah.

You go, yeah, it's hard, but, you know, it's the only way I feel good or feel peace or you got to do it.

It's like, do It.

Yeah.

And it.

And it's of course, you know, like, you know, Vancouver has like a million yoga teachers and spiritual teachers.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

That's part of the lifestyle.

Helping each other, you know, like, you know.

Yeah.

You know, in a.

In a world of yoga teacher.

Just be you.

Be unique.

Be fun unique.

Like be freaking unique.

Have unique fun.

Like live life.

Like what the hell.

Yeah.

And that's what was with me, right?

I'm like, oh my goodness.

I just bought.

I bought into this.

I wanted to conform right here.

Here I am in the authority of spirituality and non.

Duality as a slave to it.

Basically, if you look at it right, you became a slave to it.

Yeah, I was fighting against it.

I became a slave to.

My entire life has been a conflict of being a slave to it and pushing against it and self flagellating and.

Then conforming and then repeating, welcome to my story.

It's the same narrative as a seeker, right.

It's like you want to.

You want to be able to break free from the confines of, you know, the oppressive, you know, religion and everything, only to land into another oppressive thing.

Kind of like when you said that the world is going to be an anarchy if everybody wakes up.

Come on, man.

I love Ashanti, but that's just.

No, I need it's.

And it is so innocent because it's just a belief.

He's a great guy.

Yeah, Just a kid too.

He's just a kid.

Everybody's a kid here.

Everybody's a kid.

Nobody knows anything.

Yeah.

Isn't that great?

But some kids pretend that they know things.

Oh yeah, the big kids.

My dad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And one time, actually, I had just a vision.

It's hard to tell.

You don't have to, you know, it's just a story.

Yeah, sure.

I saw.

I was.

I was in a.

In a.

In a.

In a.

In a.

In a cab.

And there was this big fog.

You know what I'm saying?

And I saw the original kid.

The original kid was lonely.

So it created, you know, mirrored a whole bunch of different kids and then it created this language and they were happy and.

And then the language became my language.

My language.

They all separated with different language, but without the language.

When the fog lifted, there was no more language.

Does that make any sense?

It's like the kids.

It's just a kid.

Stale.

This language.

It's a kid's story.

It's a story about I'm better, you're not.

It is language.

Like let's pretend that we have language so that we can be better or worse.

You're like, okay.

You know, so they created this language.

And also this language was like, I'm better than you because my language is everything.

It's all made up.

It's all kids for little kids.

Yeah.

So what do you.

You go outside and you see someone carrying a briefcase and looking at their watch and they're like a businessman.

They're like, oh, I'm gonna be late for work.

Like, like, like that's hilarious.

That's how I felt, you know, when I was a spiritual teacher, Right.

So I was like in my little lemons and my mala beads, right.

I'm like walking down the street, I'm like, look how enlightened I am.

That kind of thing.

Yeah.

I was kidding myself.

It's just all.

It's like a plain dress up, right?

Yeah.

I'm playing dress up as a spiritual teacher that talks about freedom.

When I was in shackles, I was just shackles.

I was.

That was a trap, being this spiritual teacher, you know, saying and, and denying, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Negating all of the fun stuff because you're like, now I'm going to dress up a series because I'm better than you, and I'm going to listen to what I say.

Right.

Because I've found liberation.

Yeah.

And although I have trauma, that kind of thing.

And I just want to be liked, you know what I'm saying?

It's just.

And it's just the same patterns over and over and over again, right?

Because.

And then you think that.

And it's still feeding that I'm not enough.

When you become a spiritual teacher.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

I'm sure.

And that's what I'm talking about myself.

Right.

It was my way of being liked, right.

Because likes me, you know, I'm a fun kid, you know, and no one likes me.

So I'm going to be the best kid ever.

I'm going to be enlightened.

Everyone's going to like me.

Then everybody likes you until you up, basically.

You're just being a kid innocently up, you know what I'm saying?

You just can, like one day you want to party, or one day, just one of those things that you get out of that thing.

Or one day you get sick and tired of playing dress up with the same ropes over and over again.

So you, you let go of that robe and you're just kind of like, you know what?

I'm gonna go to Shambhala, you know what I'm saying?

Go to.

Sure.

Yeah.

Oh, this is all spiritual, by the way, you know, so you're convincing yourself.

Oh.

You know, saying is, just be alive, be free.

Yeah.

Or.

Or beautiful.

Beautiful appearance of life.

Right.

And we have a limited time.

Right.

And this is just a story.

Somebody asked me if you.

Do you have any regrets?

I'm like, not really, but I wish this happened to me when I was 18.

Yeah, sure, right.

Would it have made it a friend?

I got so serious after 18.

I'm like, I'm an adult now.

Oh, my goodness.

Right.

But there's really, if you notice it, the narrative, the narrator is the same age as when you were younger.

It hasn't changed, isn't it?

It's.

That's.

I love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

And I'll.

And I think that's the biggest thing is, like, there's still love for things.

There's still love around concepts.

There's still, like.

Yeah, it's okay.

You know, some people always send me this.

Different videos of different.

I don't really watch anything anymore, but once in a while, like, oh, that's cool.

I like the way the list explaining it.