EPISODE SUMMARY:

In this powerful conversation, I sit down with practitioner Katie Redding to unpack one of the most frustrating patterns we see in our practice - women feeling stuck, spinning their wheels, and not getting anywhere on their fertility journey. We explore the root causes of this "hamster wheel" dynamic, including mistrust of practitioners, fragmented testing, and unhealed trauma patterns that lead to self-reliance and burnout. We also share clinical insights on what’s often missed in conventional care and why having a personalized strategy is the missing piece. If you’re feeling exhausted, stuck, or overwhelmed by conflicting advice, this episode will give you a fresh perspective and clear next steps.

ABOUT DR. JANE’S PRACTICE:

Dr. Jane is a Naturopathic Doctor and a Natural Fertility Expert. She and her team of expert practitioners help couples navigate infertility for 1+ years, get to the root cause of their struggles, heal, and bring healthy babies home.

After having a family member struggle with infertility and experiencing a miscarriage herself, Dr. Jane realized how little support and education women receive. She is on a mission to change that. Since 2020, she has dedicated her practice to fertility, where she and her practitioners work with couples 1:1, running functional lab work, customizing treatment plans and providing her couples with the support they need to get pregnant, have a stress free pregnancy and a healthy baby.

Learn more about Dr. Jane’s practice: www.drjanelevesque.com/practice

Apply to work with Dr. Jane & her team: www.drjanelevesque.com/application

Join to receive Dr. Jane's weekly Fertility Files: https://link.getcmm.com/widget/form/JStvkHpRAamc7VwPMEQE

CHAPTERS:

00:00 The Hamster Wheel of Infertility

03:04 Trust Issues in Fertility Treatment

05:51 The Role of Trauma in Infertility

09:03 Clinical Insights and Gaps in Treatment

12:01 The Importance of Comprehensive Testing

14:57 Navigating the Labyrinth of Lab Tests

17:58 The Emotional Toll of Infertility

21:04 Finding the Right Practitioner

23:44 The Power of Data in Healing

26:55 The Need for Continuous Learning

30:03 Closing Thoughts on Fertility and Healing

TAKEAWAYS:

Women often feel stuck in their infertility journey.

Mistrust of practitioners can hinder progress.

Individualized treatment plans are crucial for success.

Trauma can impact a person's ability to receive help.

Many women have not had comprehensive testing done.

The timing of tests is critical for accurate results.

Data-driven approaches can enhance treatment effectiveness.

Emotional exhaustion is common in infertility journeys.

Finding a trustworthy practitioner is essential.

Continuous learning and adaptation are key in treatment.

ABOUT NATURAL FERTILITY:

Pregnancy is a natural process, so if it’s not happening or it’s not sticking, something is missing. Join Dr. Jane, a naturopathic doctor and a natural fertility expert, every Tuesday at 9am for insightful case studies, expert interviews and practical tips on optimizing your fertility naturally.

If you’ve struggling with infertility, pregnancy loss, women’s health issues or just want to be proactive and prepare yourself for the next big chapter in your life… this show is for you.

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Individualized care is essential for effective treatment of chronic fertility issues.

Hi guys, welcome to another episode of Natural Fertility with Dr. Jane. I am Dr. Jane and today I'm joined by another practitioner in my practice, Katie Redding. Hi, Katie. We're so excited to have you here. love the more that we have these conversations, the more people will, you know, I love, it's not just me talking about cases. It's your experience talking about cases and what we're seeing. And today you said we want to talk about the hamster reel of infertility and how to actually get off it.

Hi.

safety process.

Yeah, yeah, I think a lot women are stuck spinning their wheels.

Yeah. Tell me what sparked the conversation as we were, I'm like, we just need to hit record cause there's too many good things here. What sparked the thought behind the hamster reel and you know, where, where are women getting stuck or couples even?

Yeah. Well, we started having a conversation about women that feel like, number one, women feel like they've tried everything. They're looking on the Internet, finding lots of great options, of great things to try, and they're trying all the things and it's not working. And then we also see another kind of group of women that have this mistrust of practitioners because

they have tried so many things because they haven't had enough answers along the way. And the plan and strategy that they had wasn't maybe individualized enough, so they weren't getting results. And that has just led to this pattern of mistrust that really holds them back from taking the next steps they need to take to move the needle forward.

Yeah. I've always asked this. It's like, are you afraid of spending the money or are you afraid of wasting money? And it's usually the waste of the money versus the spending of the money. Cause you've already spent so much money that you're like, it didn't work before. How is this going to work? What do you think are the underlying kind of issues in terms of the lack of trust that happens and how much of it is personality type versus actual practitioners that they're sitting in front of what kind of tools we can give.

Always.

Patience and honestly, like I see this all the time. So, you know, as soon as you started taking calls and you're like, yep, this is the thing that's coming up. Like, yep, it is. How can we help patients get across the line? And whether that's working with us or finding another practitioner, like I genuinely mean that.

so then you can get off the hamster wheel because we all know like you were on a hamster wheel for a long time. I was on a hamster wheel and sometimes still I'm on a hamster wheel in different portions of my life. It's like it feels terrible. Like it feels terrible to be running as hard as you can and literally not getting anywhere, you know?

Yeah, yeah, I feel a lot of women feel that way. And it's a really bad place to be. Like you feel like you're not only not getting where you want to be and the goal you want to meet, but you're also it drains your family. It drains your relationships, the people around you, because you become hyper focused on getting that one thing. That's all that matters. And I think sometimes that that just puts these blinders on that we

nothing else matters, right? And so it's really, it can be easy to obsess over getting that one thing at all costs. And then we don't listen to advice because we feel like we might know better. You know, I think there's a lot of reasons it could, that pattern can set in in people. It can be personality, right? It could be a pattern that you've experienced your whole life.

that you only rely on yourself, you don't rely on others. That could be from.

Which is a trauma pattern, right? Usually it's because you were let down and there was a deep hurt. actually, so I have a patient who it's a couple, but they're like, would you see our mom? Like my mom. And I was like, you know what? I would. Cause they all live together. And so there's a lot of them. Like if I can shift her, like that was a point of contact. And yesterday I had the appointment with the mom, but her daughter showed up on it. And I was like, this is a different dynamic, but like, let's do it. And.

And I'm like, this is stupid. What are doing?

there was a lot of the mom is just like, don't like accepting help. I am on my own. I am good on my own. And it's like actually creating this pattern of rejection for the daughter because she's trying to help and it's frustrating and all of this. And we were like, where does that come from? Like, you know, I kind of started digging into that. And it's like, I just had to learn how to do that because when my brother was born, I was no longer important. And it was just like,

hands.

Okay. So that's the trauma. That's the experience that your body, your nervous system is locked into. And that's what you're still living out every day. And I saw a post like earlier that day that Gabor Mati says, like when you're triggered, you respond to the age that the trauma happened, not the age that you are. And it's like, yeah. And that was, you know, that experience happened for her for six or eight years old. And like, guess what the reaction is of this woman who needs help.

that's good. That's true.

But as soon as somebody offers help, she goes, don't touch me. And she doesn't mean to, she hates that she does that because she knows she's not eight years old anymore. But that response is really built in there. And it takes so much awareness. Like we've been working together for at least six months now where she's like, oh my God, this is a pattern. Like, and she knows it's a pattern, but now I'm ready to deal with it, you know? So when it's your personality, is it your personality or is it trauma?

Yeah. Yeah. My working with someone is so... Yeah, but it's so important to work with someone because you don't usually see that yourself, right? It takes someone else seeing that for you. I had a call just this week with someone and I said, let's go back and talk about some things that happened in childhood. And she's like, no, my childhood was great. And then we did a little more digging and...

It's the hardest thing.

Okay.

You know, her mom was chronically ill for a long period of her lifetime. She was the oldest, had to take care of siblings. Like there's this survival mechanism that not, we all have, but it really is very strong for her. And she stuck in that fight or flight. And 30 years later, she's still there because even through miscarriage, like she never even healed from that because her mentality is constantly.

Mm-hmm.

Survive, survive, keep going, keep going, keep going. And that's something that's gonna hold us back from definitely from healing, but also just from working with someone. Yeah, and being able to receive help and follow, I don't wanna say follow directions, but follow the plan. mean, so many women have a hard time just following the plan the next step because they're still questioning, will that work? Will that work? Yeah.

Receiving help. Yeah, receiving help.

Yep. Yeah, I mean, I often is like, Hey, what would help you trust a practitioner versus it's ourselves for someone else? You know, are you ready for that? Do you want that? Or do you keep wanting? Because sometimes they're like, I'm just used to figuring it out on my own.

It's like, know you're used to that, but do you want to keep doing that? I think that's the answer. Or that's the question. And then if someone says, I'm just so used to being responsible for everybody else, it's just what I do. It's like, cool, do you want to keep doing that or are you tired of carrying that? And you have to admit, you have to admit to it that like, no, I am tired versus like, no, I like it. And I have people say, no, I like it because it gives them so much fulfillment.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, really like it.

that and it's their whole character that if we take that away, they go, who am I?

Yeah, it's their identity. It's become their identity and it's all they know. And so even if they don't want it to be that way, it's what's comfortable. It's what gives them a sense of control. And I think to be able to progress forward, we have to get to the point to at least be able to admit that that's where we're at. And then, you know, what are the next steps we can take? I know, you know, even for me, I've been a control freak my whole life.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

for sure.

I've had my own trauma, we all have, but it took a long time, a very long time for me to get to a place where I was like, actually, I don't want to carry this anymore. I'm sick of it. I'm tired. My body's tired. My mind's tired. Everything. And actually sought out help with someone else. It's a hard thing to do if that's been your pattern your whole life.

You

Yeah. And especially if you were told, depending on it's like, nah, you can figure it out. You don't need anyone. Like if you need someone, that means you're weak. That means you're broken. And that's like, where did we, who taught us that? Yeah.

Yeah, that's so opposite, right? We actually are very strong if we reach out for help and rely on other people. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's the gift of, I think about, you know, when someone, when you do something really nice, this is how I try to flip it for patients, when you do something really nice for somebody, what does that feel like for you? And they go, I love it. Like, I love helping people. And I'm like, well, every time you withhold information, you're preventing the people around you to feel that same thing. And they go, damn it.

Thank you.

Mm.

God.

I know, like it feels really good to be able to help somebody. Why are you not letting people, why are you withholding that from them? You know?

Yeah

Yeah, stop stealing people's joy to be able to help you and serve you and love you and thank you.

I know. Let us help you. Yeah. But let's talk about like the clinical side of things. Cause I also think that's a real thing where people come to us and they're like, we've already done all of this. We've done, we've had the 10 different supplement protocols and the diet and lifestyle changes. I've already tried to eat more protein. You know, clinically, what do you see as...

for like, you know, terms of our process, that's different. And this patient in front of you, you had this week that you're like, these are the gaps that you actually had and that's why it didn't work.

Yeah, just like we have our childhood trauma and things that happened to us throughout our lifetime, I think a lot of women have experienced almost a trauma of going through the system that is hard to let go of, it's hard to resolve, and that leads to mistrust. So I think one way that we're very different is, you know, very early on in our process, we do look at what has been missed and

Yes.

while many of our clients have been doing so many of the right things. They're not in the right order at the right time, in the right season, at the right dose for the right person. And all of those things really matter, right? Like just taking the right supplement. If it's the wrong dose or the wrong... Yeah, you're just throwing it down the toilet, literally. And of course, it's not gonna work, which then leads you to think,

Mm-hmm.

You don't have the digestion absorption capacity.

Mm-hmm.

that that practitioner wasn't good enough or comprehensive enough or the plan didn't work, but really it was we didn't have the strategy from the beginning. So that's what I explained to several of my couples this week is like you needed the big picture from the start. Now we might tweak it along the way, we're going to pivot, we're going to adjust things along the way, but it's having the information upfront, enough information to be able to draw the connections, draw the dots.

come up with a cohesive plan. That's not, you know, if somebody tells you, can get better in 12 weeks, don't sign up. You're not going to get better in 12 weeks. Healing takes time. And I think that. Yeah.

You will get some better, but you're not going to heal completely. There is no end line to healing, but you should get better in 12 weeks, but you know, not potentially conceive, especially if you have something like endometriosis and PCOS or premature ovarian insufficiency. Like if you have POI and someone's like, you can totally heal that in three months. It's like next, you know, you got to move to the, into running the other direction.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. And so having the strategy upfront is really important. I think that's what sells a lot of people to work with us because we are very strategic and we look further down the road at what the bigger plan is, but then we kind of reverse engineer that, right? So we're not giving you the whole entire plan at once. That's overwhelming. You can't do that. You can't take it easy. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's gonna change. It should change.

It should be changing along the way. If it's not, then it's not a good plan and it needs to pivot. And we never know how the body's gonna react, right? Or how the couple will react.

For this particular case, what do you feel like what was missing for her from what you saw?

Yeah, I think it was a lot of in the beginning, when when the process started, it was a lot of singular tests, right? Like, we'll do this one thing. And then they waited three or four months and then they do one more thing. it really, yeah, really stretched out. And it's it's hard to connect anything connect pieces when it's that fragmented. I think timing

Mm-hmm.

So a lot of fragmentation.

of when they did testing was really poor. So sometimes not done on the right cycle days. We have no idea when the cycle is. I was reviewing some of the labs and I'm like, looking at your hormones doesn't tell me anything if I don't know where you are. And it's interesting, you'll go to a GYN and they'll be like, we'll test your hormones today. And you'll say, I'm not on the right window. And they'll say, it doesn't matter. Just where are you? Right? Like they just tell me like,

Mm-hmm.

you're on day seven. Okay. And they'll write it on their paper and we'll interpret it knowing that you're on day seven. And I'm like, that's terrible. Like that's horrible. Like there are actual scientific ways that we can plan this out and time it out so that we get the information we need. Why aren't we doing that? So that was really missed a lot of timing issues. So we didn't, even though they had some of this important testing, it wasn't done at the right time. And

Mm.

And did you have like functional lab testing?

then you don't.

Some was functional, some was conventional, you know, through their doctor that they had, a lot of it was through the doctor. They had some really great doctors who did great tests, but as time went on, then she just started switching and switching and switching. I think the other thing is the intensity, the urgency starts getting more and more. And so it's almost like...

Yes.

just reaching for anything. And the next thing that came along that was shiny and exciting, she was like, I'm gonna try that. And that comes from just the desperation of not having the clear plan, not knowing what's coming. I think that's a big thing. When I explained our process to that particular couple, actually the husband was like,

Mm-hmm.

Sure. The desperation that's driving in, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

this is a great plan. We've never seen a plan like this. We've never had someone talk about our labs in this light or explain it in this great detail. And for him, like right away, it made a lot of sense and he was ready. He's like, let's go.

The men like our plants because they're so logical. And they go, my God, finally there's logic. Somebody has a plant and it makes sense.

Yeah, somebody has a plan. Yeah, yeah. And so, you for her, the holdup is just her mistrust. And I ended up having to have in the conversation said that's really what holds you back in this process at this point, no matter who you work with. And we want you to work with somebody that you're comfortable with and that you do trust, because it does no good to work with us if you don't trust the process. And that can be hard to do.

Mm-hmm.

But ultimately, I said that is what it comes down to. You have to find someone that you can trust because what holds you back is not taking the steps to move forward. Yeah.

Yep. You said a couple of really important things there. Yeah. One of them outlining, if you're in the place where you're still looking for practitioners versus you're in the place, I always say you have limited amount of energy. And so if you've had a test here and a test here and a test here and a test, like every test that you had to run, there was energy, there was hope, there was like, there was an emotional connection. There was a lot of

This is...

Like you just put a lot of energy towards it. And so if there is, if it creates that fragmentation and you don't really get the results and you'd get that bucket starts to get emptier and emptier and emptier and emptier. And so then when you get to the point and you're like, listen, I hate to break this to you, but a lot of that was a waste of your time. That was inefficient. We could have done all of that testing within one cycle and understood the entire picture and

Thank you.

I just onboarded a new couple a couple of weeks ago and they're like, how do people decide which labs to run besides the costs? So we'll always say like, here's what I'd love to do. Here's what we need to do. And then we let the couples decide.

but we also guide them obviously through that because why would you run this test? Why would you not? What are the pros? What are the cons? Is that really important? And of course there's always a financial component. It's like, do you want to nine grand on labs or do you want to spend five grand on labs? Here's what I need and here's what's nice to have. And I was like, after cost, my next question is like, can the couple handle this? Because you're going to get like eight different boxes in the mail and you're going to have to collect.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes.

throughout your entire cycle. these are day two and three tests. This is around ovulation. This is day 19 and 23. And you're probably gonna collect one to two or three labs per each time. Like it's a lot. It's a lot. And if I could, I wouldn't do it. But the whole point of doing that is that you can see everything and you go,

It is a lot.

That's what's missing. Let's make a plan. Let's do X, Y, and Z. So I'm very mindful of that energy. So if you're in the space where you're like, I have had so many tests done, but you don't have any answers, it's because those tests have been done so erratic and no one ever walked you through why you ran that test and what piece of information it filled in, what piece of the puzzle it completed for you. And so you're tired now.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So it's not even a lack of trust. It's a like, I'm actually tired and I need a break from this whole infertility journey, which is also like, I call that out all the time. I'm like, I don't think you're ready for this. Cause when you're jumping into like, I'm gonna tell you what to do, but you have to be ready.

because there's gonna be a lot of that energy. So I want women to be very protective of that space instead of like, yeah, I'll just keep doing the labs, I'll just keep doing it. It's like going to the doctors and getting your blood drawn or pooping in a box constantly or whatever, vaginal swabs. It's all tiring. And if you don't have somebody who's walking you through that, you're gonna exhaust yourself pretty quick.

So

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think when you join our team, one of the benefits is that clients don't have to do this on their own. Because here in the US, I know you're in Canada, but in the US, people can order lab tests, functional lab tests, and serum lab testing and things like that.

Sometimes that creates a lot more mess.

and it creates so much mess. I wanna speak to that woman because we had our call last night, our master class call, and there were several people like, well, I can just order that online. I can just order that test online. And I absolutely can, but who's gonna read it? Who's gonna create the plan? Who's gonna interpret it in light of your symptoms and your history and what you've had done, what you haven't had done, what's missing? You can't do that on your own.

So it's tempting to go and grab these shiny things of like, I can do some of this testing on my own, but then it then it's just wasted money. We don't even know what that means. you know, with our chat, TPT is still limited and it's not always correct. It's not always correct. Yeah. So there's certainly we love using all the resources we have, but

Mm-hmm.

I can put a new charge in the TKD.

It's not always correct, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

there are limitations when you are stuck in that I can do it myself mode. You know, we have a fertility coordinator that like our lab coordinator, like helps our clients figure out timing and figure out testing and where it's going to happen and just makes the process so much more smooth for them so that we get it right. Right. These are expensive tasks. We want to make sure that we're not wasting them or doing them incorrectly.

Mm-hmm.

and that we get them done timely. And yeah, it just makes the process so much better.

I think it's part of the evolution of you. Like I, I don't know if I'm sure you had this as you're like you yourself as a patient, but part of the evolution is to go, okay, I can't figure this out on my own. And when I look for a paid practitioner, I have to ask for X, Y, and Z things and see how they're thinking about versus like, I'll just go to anyone and they'll help me figure it out. Because

Mm-hmm.

You know, I spent a lot of years in the personal training space and obviously like being in Atropath now for 10, almost 11 years, it's not every personal trainer is the same.

Not every naturopathic doctor is the same. Not every functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner is the same. You have to interview people to see if they have, like the kind of practitioner that I was when I first started practicing versus now is very different. And I know that because by the results that I can get from people, but also how I talk to them, the results that I, how I'm able to interpret all of that stuff. So one of the things that Dr. Nicole actually said on the live the other Tuesday or whatever day you guys were on,

Thank

absolutely.

She's like, man, I'm really impressed by the quality of the questions that people are asking now. And I'm like, great. We are bringing the industry up, including every one of you who is listening to be, if you're asking $2 questions, you're going to get $2 answers.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

If you want a hundred dollar question, you're going to get a hundred dollar answer. And so I'm like, how can you ask a $2,000 question to get a $2,000 answer? Like the thing that's going to save you an insane amount of money, time, and energy instead of quick, know, oh, where do I do this? Oh, I can get this by myself and I can interpret it as like.

is do that. That's okay. Do that. But if you don't get anywhere, don't say natural medicine didn't work or don't say that I am broken. It's like, no, no, no. You experimented, your experiment failed. What are you going to do next? What's the next thing you're going to experiment? Because that's the growth. You need to keep experimenting, but your experiments hopefully should be getting better and better and better instead of, I give up.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I think a lot of women stay stuck in that trial and error instead of, you know, we continue and I say we because I've been there, I've done it before where that didn't work.

Yes.

Would your husband have to be like, you got to stop this lady?

Yes, my husband's the one who said, we're not doing this anymore. We're not going to another doctor. We're not buying another program that you're not going to do. He literally, I remember the conversation and where we were sitting when we had it. And we talk about it even today, how that was a turning point where he said, if we're going to spend this time, energy, effort and money, we are going to find someone that will help us instead of you trying to coordinate this and guess at it.

Mm-hmm.

I credit him for that turning point. And it's really important to be able to come to that realization.

Yep, sure.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think from supplements or labs or anything else, like I, we had this conversation earlier is like, the more you know, the less that you feel that you know, the more that you learn, the less that you feel like, you know, that's a real thing that happens. Yes, that's it. Yeah. And I think that's the reality. I, after the masterclass yesterday, they were still

Yeah, yeah. more I realize, I don't know.

Even though I went through the whole thing and I was like, in order, like here's our roadmap. You have to have answers once you have answers. And that means like you have to collect certain data and then you have to.

run certain labs, that's how we have answers, like thorough answers and understanding. And then, you know, on one-on-one, it's like, here's the initial consultations where we do the health assessment. Once you have answers, then you can create a plan. And that plan is gonna change based on how some of your systems and everything is changing, and of course, based on what we found. So like, you're not gonna detox heavy metals on day one, or even like parasites or certain infections, you have to.

prep the body and you have to eat everybody's individual. And then because everything is constantly changing in your body, but as research and with AI and all that, which is great, we have tools, but the clinical experience is what's important. That's what's gonna drive, like that's what Chagy BT doesn't have, you know? And even some of my girlfriends where...

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

We graduated at the same time and now they're like not really seeing patients, but they're consulting about like lab findings. And then they tell people about lab findings and how to treat. And I was like, but you're not treating the patients. How do you know if that works? They're treating in theory and you can't treat in theory.

Thanks.

Yeah, they're treating him theory, right? They're treating, yeah.

Like you just can't do it. It's like there's theoretical experiments. My dad is a quantum physicist and he's like publishing papers right now and everyone's like, my God, how do you know it works? It's like, cause I run the experiments. Like that's how I know there's no theory here. I'm doing the experiment and that's why it works. And everybody's just like, that's insane. Like, no, it's not. It's practical.

Thank

the way it should be. Yeah, it's real life. Yeah.

It's the way it should be. Like, how backwards is that? Yeah. How backwards is that? So, side note with Chad GPT, I was like, you know, I like to dabble into some conspiracy theories here and there. And I've been hearing some conspiracy theories about like the Charlie Kirk assassination. And so I punched it into Chad GPT. And Chad GPT was like, he's alive. What are you talking about? And I was like, what?

Jane Levesque (26:56.493)

So just FYI, Chad GPT, I'm like, he's like, what are the resources? I'm worried about the way that you're thinking. And I'm like, okay, what about this? And I could just put in a Wikipedia link. He's like, you are right. I'm so sorry. And I'm just like, okay, you are not to date on some things.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, we it's great to have tools available that help speed up processes and you know, but it is often wrong. So you have to fact check and make sure it's correct. but that I didn't know Charlie Kirk was alive. No. That's crazy.

You

you

Oh my God. You know, anyways, the viewership on that, on those reels is going to go up all of a sudden. Tell me, what is the labs that you do as you're starting to look at some of the cases that are coming? What are the labs that are missing that is like part of our standard protocol versus, you know, not for the other clients?

Yeah, so for sure, and most of our clients come to us with testing through conventional methods, right? So their doctor is primarily, and some have literally nothing, blows my mind. Like, how do we have zero, right? they do.

And struggling with infertility for like three years. You know, you're like, what?

Yeah, not three months, three years. like, I don't understand this. But the ones that are coming with some testing, I definitely see it's not a comprehensive look at their blood, which again, blows my mind because it's such a simple thing. I come from, my background was in nursing, and I've looked at labs my whole adult life. And I just think a CBC with differential is like,

$3, know, a CMP is $9. Like, why aren't we running the full thing to see what the picture is? And, you know, most people that have insurance, that should cost them a $25 copay to get a very comprehensive lab panel. And that's not happening. If we're lucky, we're seeing hormones. Again, they're not tested at the right times. And

Mm-hmm.

And sometimes it's the right time of the cycle, but right time, wrong time of the day. That's like, come on, we were so close.

Yeah. They weren't fasted if they needed to be fasted or they tested hormones in the evening because that's when they happen to be at the appointment and we like to test some more in the morning. yeah, some of that. also really I like to see a whole cycle for women, whether that is testing on day two and three and day 19 to 20. So we test twice in the same cycle if we're doing blood or doing something like a functional test, like a Dutch where we're seeing.

a 24-hour cycle over, you I like a cycle mapping because we can see even more data. you know, I worked one client this week has over year over year has had low progesterone. They've never investigated it. And she was, you know, early 30s when

Was she told that her progesterone is normal?

She was told it was normal, that it was fine. And they never like looked further at timing of it or comparing it to her estrogen or anything. So it was just a single progesterone that they were drawing, not in conjunction with other hormones that would give us information of like, is this balanced? know, one singular hormone doesn't tell us as much as if we had the full panel and we had the whole picture.

No.

So that still blows my mind. Cause to me, this is basic. Like you don't need any special fertility knowledge to know like there are more than just like one hormone or two hormones here. It has, it's the whole body. So.

Well, I wonder if you were still a nurse now, the differences that you would see, because I actually ended up calling this out. One of my patients, like they had a test three months ago and then we retested and they were just able to run it through their GP and it was just through Quest. But you looked at the range on one test and the range for that same marker was different than the test. And I was like, Hey guys, watch this. Do you see how this range over here is this? And look at this range now.

And I'm what? And I'm like, yeah. And both of the results were normal for the patient, but all of the sudden now the reference range is different and it's so sneaky. It's so sneaky. And in reality, the reasons that the reference ranges are there is it is the average of, you know, the highs and the lows that they get for the population of people testing. That's what the reference range is based on. So if there's more and more exactly

It's the bell curve, right? The 80 % of people in the middle. And you're like, I don't want to be in the middle.

Yes. And so if more and more people are getting sick and the average GGT keeps going up, which is a liver enzyme, they go, I guess the reference range needs to shift. And you're like, no, it doesn't because that actually tells us that everybody's liver's health is getting worse and worse and worse. And you know, you're sitting in front of your doctor with like jaundice, a belly, your headaches, red eyes. Nope. You're totally good.

Mm-hmm. Right, we're just going to shift it.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's conventional. That's conventional medicine wrapped up in the, you know, one statement is just it's getting worse. And our standard, we're lowering our standard for what good health is. So even when you go to your doctor, even if you're in average health, they're going to look at you and be like, you're amazing. Your labs look great because they're comparing you to very sick people. And we don't want to be sick.

I don't know if you are. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep. I had that realization when I took, when my grandma was alive and I took her to the doctor and everybody and my grandma was like on like five different medications. You know, her knees are bad. She's overweight. She has blood, blood pressure issues, diabetes, like you name it. And I'm sitting in this office and I'm like, no wonder I like, I don't have issues in comparison to any of these people.

But I have issues because I have digestive stuff. have anxious like my acne is still here. Like, you know, however old I was, it was like at least 10 years ago. And that is when I had that realization of like, my God, I'm being compared to this. And I was like, of course I'm healthy in comparison to my grandma, but like, I don't want to be like my grandma. I'm trying to change things. I want her to change, you know? Yeah. What about functional lab tests that she's missing? Was she missing? Did she even have any functional lab tests?

Yeah.

all. Yeah, absolutely. She had a few. She had urine testing. there was a Dutch test and then a GI test as well. So there was some, which is good. They were done a different

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Done a different nose.

around the same season, but different times. So they were about six weeks apart. So yeah, it's not bad. I've seen, you know, one a year. That's completely, there's no link there. We can't tell what's going on. So that was helpful, but had never had the results explained. So, you know, that's another thing that I see often is that whether that's from the conventional doctor ordering it or through a functional provider that

No, that's not terrible.

Mm-hmm.

the clients just don't understand what the results are telling them. And I feel very strongly.

Mm-hmm. Which is a crime. Like, it's such a crime. Why would you order a test result and then not explain it to the person? Or maybe you just ordered it yourself thinking that I'll just, you know, I'll make sense of it. And it's like, that's a terrible idea.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the takeaway, said, well, so what was the takeaway? They didn't explain this to you. And she said, oh, you know, take a probiotic. And I'm like, that's it. You did that like $2,000 of testing to take a probiotic. I mean, you could have just done that, you know. We could have tried that out without testing. So I think that's another difference in our processes. As a practitioner, I want the clients to understand

God, come on.

what they're seeing, what their labs are telling us, what their body is telling us, so that it makes sense. Because when it makes sense to us, we are more willing to make the changes we need in our life. If somebody just says, I really think you should eat 1200 calories, but you have no reason why. Well, why? Why would you do you need me to do that? Or you say, I want you to eat these five green vegetables.

But there's no why behind it. It just makes it more difficult to follow through with making changes in your life. you know, knowledge is power in every way. And we want to make sure that our clients understand what we're seeing and how that impacts them. And then how those lifestyle changes and the pivots that we make in their lifestyle can actually shift their body and shift the results and get them what they want.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I would say is like, I don't believe in motivation. think knowledge drives compliance because it does, you know, especially, that's why men love our process because they go, this is very logical. I have high cholesterol. I have an infection in my gut. I have high liver enzymes. If I keep doing X, Y, and Z, I'm going to keep feeding into this. So then I don't, maybe I should stop drinking. Maybe I do need to start drinking more water. Maybe I do need to move my body because I'm seeing like

Yeah.

That data is so, important. And I think if you are on a hamster wheel, that's like my biggest piece of advice that I could give you is to get off the hamster wheel. You need to root yourself into data. If you have data, you can't really like, there's no questions to be like, well, maybe I shouldn't do this. It's like, no, you could see it. Like you can see that I've had people, you know, in nutrient panel and their protein, like I, she's still probably tops. And I've been working with her for a year now with them.

Hehe.

It was all in the red, all of her amino acids. Like she literally had no amino acids in her body. It was like, okay, like this, you know, in like LH and FSH are amino acid hormones. Protein is an amino acid. It breaks down into that singular amino acid. So if you don't have any of those hormones...

Wow, so no building blocks anywhere.

That kind of makes sense. You know, if your hair is falling out, if your muscles are, you you don't, can't put on muscle mass, your bones are weak. It's like that all can come down. And so as soon as she saw that she was like, Oh, okay. I get it. Like, you know, it's two protein shakes a day. It's amino acids and the like, and you could feel her system come up and just become stronger and more rooted. And she then became less anxious and all of that. I don't know why she, like I could, I know she could eat more protein. Absolutely. But when we see that at the

level of it and then we call it out, there's so much more intention behind your actions because now you're like, this is the thing that we need to fix. Part of the game is to call out the thing that you're working on and making sure that you work, like watch the progress happen. It's one of my frustrations is like, okay, you've got a test and then now there's nothing you can do about it. It's like, what are you talking about? There's always something to do after a test.

Yeah.

you

Like, I don't know if you've ever, right? Have you ever seen normal results on like a GI map test? No. Yes, even myself. I'm like, my God, this is still here. I got to fix that. Totally.

Never. Even in super healthy people.

Yeah, and it's never gonna be perfect. There's so many variables to the human body. It is absolutely amazing, but if you're still having symptoms, something needs to shift. The plan needs to shift or we need different testing to give us different data. I think another thing that's probably unique is that we don't hesitate to retest if we feel that's necessary.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Yes, for sure.

along the way, because like you said, data is what drives compliance and confirms are we on the right track or not, or do we need to make an adjustment? So, you know, not waiting six months or a year to do retesting, but once that protocol is finished, if we found something that is concerning, then we're going to retest to make sure that the protocol that we've given is really been efficient and helpful.

Mm-hmm.

true.

Mm-hmm.

For sure. Well, thank you, Katie. Any closing words for people?

Keep asking good questions. You know, as we do research.

I agree. Keep asking good questions. I don't know if I finished like that, but it's like after I went through the masterclass and then someone's like, what's your advice? I can't get pregnant for three years and I was on birth control. It's like, get some answers. That's my advice. Like get lab testing. That's my advice. It's like find a practitioner. It's what do you want me to tell you? you should eat more protein or track start tracking ovulation. You've already been doing that. It's three years. You need answers. Like after three to four months of not trying, you have not being able to conceive.

Thank you.

Right, right.

you should be getting more lab work. Do you have to run $10,000 worth of labs? No, but should you get a really comprehensive panel that it captures your cycle? Yes, just like some basic, we call it basic, but it's like, it's not basic anymore. And so three to four months of not trying to conceive, there's something going on. So rule that out right away, instead of waiting for three years, when now you have exhausted.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

that energy bank of let's try this supplement and see if it works. Let's try this diet. Let's see if it works. Let's try this test result and see like if it works. It's like all of that fragmentation is exhausting, you know?

Absolutely. Don't waste more time, energy and effort when we can get answers and move the needle forward where we want it to go.

Yeah, step one, get answers then, and this is what I deeply wanna change in the health industry and in the, I like, I'll finish with this. There's a couple of five IVF cycles, unexplained infertility.

Thank

Never had a full thyroid panel. Never had a full proper like blood sugar regulation, know, inflammation, even markers. I'm like, what in the actual F is going on here? And their whole thing is like, we just want to get answers. And like, isn't that funny that you're coming to a naturopath for answers? Like who's going to do testing on you? What is that? Since when? The conventional system, like when did you guys stop doing testing? When did you start to just go, you know what, screw the testing, let's go straight to the treatment.

It's so backwards. It's so backwards. And I genuinely like really want to change that in the industry because it does it's not logical. Yet we get stuck in it because the emotion to the urgency that you were talking about to conceive like it blinds you and you're like, it doesn't matter. I'm just going to do whatever because this person told me and it's like, no, you got to listen to that guy. Like if it doesn't make sense, don't do it.

industry is the argument.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

If it doesn't make sense, don't do it. You're wasting it. You're wasting the energy, not even the money. You're wasting that precious energy that you have.

So thank you, Katie. That was a really good topic, I think. Very helpful. I'm excited. We'll have you again very soon. So stay tuned. Thanks guys for tuning in. We'll see you next week.

Bye.