Unlocking Your World of Creativity with Daniela Marzavan

Guest Introduction:

- Introducing Daniela Marzovan, a change darer specializing in innovation and creativity.

- Setting the podcast scene in Lisbon, Portugal, and highlighting Daniela's expertise in teaching innovation.

Cultural Connections:

- Discussing the combustible energy between California and Portugal, exploring the shared love for the seaside, waves, nature, and joie de vivre.

- Reflecting on the cultural exchange and creative discussions at monthly networking events.

Teaching Innovation:

- Introducing Daniela's consultancy that not only consults but also teaches innovation tools.

- Focusing on the knowledge, attitude, and practice required for creativity and innovation.

Tools for Innovation:

- Differentiating between creativity and innovation, highlighting the need for processes, rationality, and courage in innovation.

- Describing the design thinking process and the importance of courage at each step.

Impact in Education and Overcoming Challenges:

- Addressing challenges in the education system that hinder creativity, sharing experiences of working with creative teachers, and rekindling their creative confidence.

- Discussing the importance of structural changes in education to empower teachers and students.

Creativity in Crisis:

- Sharing personal experiences of growing up in post-communist Romania and witnessing creative responses to crisis in Barcelona, Tokyo, and Cairo.

- Expressing optimism about the potential for creativity to thrive amidst crises, emphasizing the need to channel creative energy effectively.

Global Awareness and Creativity:

- Suggesting alternative ways to travel globally through books, movies, art, and photography.

- Encouraging a deeper understanding of cultures and social issues, even in the absence of physical travel.

Inspiring Change in Education:

- Advocating for listening to children, allowing them the space to be creative without interruption.

- Visioning a future where the role of change darers becomes obsolete as a new generation of little change darers emerges from schools.

Copyright 2024 Mark Stinson

  Welcome back, friends, to our podcast, Unlocking Your World of Creativity. And we travel around the globe talking to creative practitioners everywhere about how they get inspired and how we can organize our ideas. And most of all, gain the confidence and the connections to launch our work out into the world.

And I'm so glad today to be talking about change and innovation and learning the skills and tools it takes to be innovative. And my guest today, her title is a change darer. Of all things, daring us to be creative and change worthy. I'm talking with Daniela Marzavan.

Hi, Mark. Thank you.

It's great to see you in Lisbon, Portugal. A place that's been on my list to travel for so long.

Do come. You are very welcome. I'll take you to my favorite networking event, which is Californians and Portuguese meeting up every month to discuss creative stuff.

And what is that combustible energy between California and Portugal?

it's the love for the seaside, for the waves, for the nature, for the roughness of the nature, and it's also the joie de vivre, loving life, loving food, loving good wine, good music. So for now Californians seem to love Portugal and Lisbon.

I'll take you there. And there are many other beautiful places to visit in Lisbon. So pay

us

a visit. I can't wait. Daniela's consultancy really teaches innovation and yes, they consult, but they also teach the tools and Daniela, I'm thinking about what it takes to be not just creative, but innovative, meaning applying the ideas, bringing them to actuality.

And there's certainly a knowledge And an attitude and a practice that must all come together for that. What are some of the tools that you're teaching your clients and your groups?

Certainly being creative and innovative are two two sides of the same coin, I would say. They're yet not the same.

So I would dare to say that being creative doesn't necessarily make you more innovative. There are people that are creative and maybe artists. And they express themselves and criticize the world around them in a way that intrigues us, that makes us question things and being innovative on on the other side, especially in a corporate, but also in a government context needs some kind of the process and Russian and a big chunk of rationality.

We named ourselves change Dara, because one of the main processes we follow when we do consultancy work, but also in my teaching is. It's called design thinking, I bet you've heard of it and your listeners for sure. And we found that in every step of the design thinking process, which is an iterative process, not really linear, there is a call that for people to, to have the courage to think in a certain way, to act in a certain way.

So there was an attitude a cognitive. Nuance to every one of these steps. And I could explain a little bit what I mean. So in the first part of the process, it's really about understanding the brief. So what is it, what we're trying to do? Are we trying to improve a service, a product that we're trying to improve or innovate on something within our organization, maybe a new role description.

We are really daring to challenge that initial brief. I ask my clients or my students in a teaching context to dare to question, to dare to challenge that initial brief to say you think you want to have a new service, but let me see if that's really what you need. And then comes the natural step of daring to provoke or to ask provocative questions.

thIs comes with. Tools related to ethnographic field research to interviewing, maybe the users, the clients of that company to really delving into the world of the clients that requires a lot of empathy. It requires some. ethics, obviously, because, you'll find yourself sitting on the couch of people and analyzing the way they watch TV or the way they listen to music.

So you have to be very careful in the things that you record and the questions that you ask. You need to dare to provoke to get people out of their comfort zone so they will really tell you what they don't know they know about their needs. That's right. Next we have the point of view where basically synthesize everything from research.

So they're, We need another nuance, which is daring to simplify, daring to going from very complex, a lot of information to say, okay, listen we can only tackle this little bit. And lately we've had a lot of complex wicked problems in government context that we've tackled so that's really crucial in this phase of the process to say, dare to simplify, it's complex, it's difficult.

We tackled. products around COVID or services around crises in cities, and you need to dare to say, listen, this is really complex. The problem is huge. Let us take this little chunk and simplify it. And next comes the ideation, prototyping and testing, which comes with daring to imagine, to be bold, to be creative.

Daring to think with your hands and build before you talk and show instead of telling what you mean. And ultimately daring to fail and succeed. We found that most people don't only fear to um, to fail, actually people really fear to succeed with their innovation because it's really hard to keep the success once you've had it, once you've reached it.

Yes, isn't that an interesting twist? And I have talked to many creative, I'll say, academics, and you really cross the line often between academia and actual practice and, putting these things into place. But I've often been told, and just in a casual conversation. Oh, the schools these days don't teach kids how to be creative or, our education systems, extract or beat the creativity out of their students.

You've been working at the educational level to try to rekindle and teach the teachers how to allow that kind of creativity and expression. What are you finding there? Yes, it's

true. I find myself as a pro academic, but in practice at academia and when I'm in academia it's really hard to, not freak out because I really wished.

And the creative teachers out there that have amazing ideas on how to design their learning experiences would have the permission to play and create their classes the way they think it's best for the kids. And what I find intriguing is. The structures that we put around those teaching experiences, the structures, not only in terms of how a class should be should be organized, but also the grading system, the comparison between, you have 20 different students and you have to grade them after.

Following the same principles. It doesn't work. People are different, right? And then so on the one hand, it's really just the structures that are in place and instead of enhancing and helping teachers to Create those beautiful learning experiences for their kids inhibit them and on the other hand, I found it very intriguing last week.

I had six Teachers from three European countries that have asked for a training to start to kick off a two years project between their schools. And I found their own personal creative confidence is very low. So we did some creativity exercises like the ones you have to, write as many things as you.

You can come up with what you can do with a pencil, and they have to write really quickly, or they have to divide a square in four equal parts and all these exercises. And they got anxiety. They felt really bad. He said, I'm not good at that. I'm not creative. I don't want to do those exercises.

Did I do it right? Did I do it wrong? And it took us maybe four hours to get them out of that. I'm thinking and into. into a confidence that where they remember why they became teacher in the first place, what they love about their job, what are their sometimes very intuitive tools that they use to, to enhance this beautiful learning experiences.

And I found there were incredibly creative. They had a lot of ideas that they would actually put in practice. And at the same time, really Had that fear coming along with, am I allowed to do that? Will my principal, punish me for doing that? Could we do it within this project?

Cause we actually designed a whole project that the three schools would do together. So that really intrigues me. How can we empower and enable teachers to do the thing they know how to do best within the structures we give them as a support system?

Yes. And finding those structures and figuring out, where the, are the fences, where are the walls, what are the restraints because that continues not only along the student's journey, but I think about the growth of the teacher and you yourself have been in a professor guest lecturer, instructor roles MBA programs that, schools of business where creativity should be flourishing.

What is your sense?

In my first year as a lecturer at the University of Applied Science in Berlin, I found myself hiding under the radar with everything I was doing. I was pretty young also and an, an outcast, exotic teacher teaching exotic stuff. So I found myself partnering up with my students and keeping the secret of what we were actually doing in class.

It's just

between us.

It was really like, this is between us, we're going to have a lot of fun and we're going to call this work. Okay. And you got to get graded for, it's going to be really fun and you will love working extra hours on this, but don't tell anyone. So of course the rumor went around and eventually today, 10 years later.

Things have actually really changed, especially in that organization. So I feel that creativity can be like a virus that spreads around. And that if you start, seeding the very, very first um, seeds of virus in the first people, you'll have a lot of you'll have multiply, you'll have people that.

So we had a crisis and the Lehman Brother crisis before we had the Arabic spring, we had the Fukushima crisis. So we had this multiple crisis, political, economical and environmental crisis that kind of combined gave up a a big. a big necessity for creativity, for inventivity, for optimism. And I was a bit surprised that most organizations still work after this for this linear way of thinking and doing things just very Efficient and linear and trying to not to fail too much and not to risk too much.

I enrolled in a, in this journey to teach, to start creating MBA learning experiences. And I have to say there are still very few executive MBAs that truly embrace creativity and innovation truly. And classes like mine are still. Only electives, it's funny. So we, I dream of the day when these classes will be mandatory, just like financial planning, just intercultural management, and they should be mandatory.

I think

And some of the areas that just are demanding they're crying for innovation. I think about the the conference you and I met at in Oslo, Norway, about sustainability. There couldn't have been better, more creative minds in the room. And yet. Across all case studies, there was this well, we've got lots of ideas, but implementing these ideas and demonstrating their impact and, measuring and making them economically viable.

Continues to be a challenge and in these areas of sustainability, but there couldn't be more urgency.

Absolutely. And it's funny you bring it up because I thought it was a brilliant event and you've covered it really nicely in your podcast and it was really inspiring. Still, we had the feeling those were like really daring, courageous pioneers that did this amazing project and but guys, this should be.

Just the normal things to do in any organization. You shouldn't be the, I remember the architectural office that was actually questioning the very brief of building something new. Do we really need it? Cause the best idea would be not to build at all. And they would apply all this designerly creative ways of researching to find out if we really need to build something new.

And they said they. Probably don't have much competition out there. So it's still a blue ocean, which is good news. Organizations, agencies, corporations that embrace this new way of thinking and doing might have a competitive advantage, that's what. I am preaching in my executive MBA class, trying to, trying to get them with what they like hearing most.

And

they all said the customers wanted, I think about the phone electronics retailer. I think about the furniture maker, that said the customers want to fix their own stuff to make it last longer. And I thought, I'm not sure that's a light bulb moment, but it could be a competitive advantage.

Absolutely. It could be. And we're currently discussing circular economy business models in our MBA classes. And I actually thought it would, I'll just mention it really quickly. We made like this pyramid of circular economy models and I showed it up and then the students are like, can you go back to that slide?

Can we write it out? But isn't that something that it's, A normal daily practice in your organization to rethink your business model, and it turns out it's not. And we're talking about all kinds of industries and all kinds of organizations from all over the world where the executive leaders don't have the resources and the access to the many amazing innovative ideas out there.

So I think

we and Daniela, you're really elevating this. At the one hand, you could say, Oh, this is an obstacle or, we're dissatisfied with this approach, but you're really elevating this and trying to call out. Now, this is a crisis. thIs is really something we need to address.

Tell us more about your perspective on this.

I found I like crisis. I'm a big fan. It's like my modus operandi. I grew up in a country in transition in Romania, right after the fall off the wall. So I found this country shifting from communism to capitalism in a pure, In a pure crisis mode.

I found in, in, in Tokyo, people talking about re. defining the way they teach in silos, they teach medical students in one silo and one department, they teach engineers in one department. So I found these academics thinking about multidisciplinary classes, where different disciplines learn early before a crisis arrives, how to collaborate with each other.

And I found in Spain in the midst of a huge political crisis also new masters new classes coming up teaching design and creativity innovation that were filled and packed. So I've witnessed firsthand 10 years ago, and I'm witnessing again now, 10 years later, how crisis trigger creativity. And how we need approaches like design thinking innovation processes that funnel this creativity, because if we let this creativity go wild, it might just fade away.

People might just, start doing their small little creative projects somewhere that will help them like, like a therapy for them for them to face the crisis. But I think if we find the right way to. Capture this creativity and funnel it in the right direction. We can really make a great change happen.

And this multiple crisis that we're seeing now, we have, we've had a pandemic. We are in the middle of a huge climate crisis. Not to speak about the terrible wars that are coming that, that are happening right now. I think if we would Find a way to capture that creative energy that comes out of crisis and funnel it in the right direction and channel it in the right direction.

We could, I'm very optimist. We could change our organizations and make them fitter for innovation. We could change our habits of consuming. We could. We could make our cities and countries more inclusive, more tolerant, more diverse. I don't only think that, I've seen it work. I'm not only an optimist, I I've seen it work.

So I do believe it works.

Yes, if you have seen it. Then they fuels the optimism and the hope, doesn't it? I wanted to see if I could connect the dots here for a second and tell me if this makes any sense. But you were talking earlier about ethnographic research and, going into people's homes and you're literally sitting on the couch or you're watching them make meals or, whatever the ethnographic research, but you're also talking about being in the.

In the place in the cities. So born in Romania, but traveling all around Europe and you've added Tokyo and, but you're saying I want to be in the culture on the ground, when these things are happening, and I really have a sense that kind of cultural exchange. Or traveling or all these things really widens the lens.

Doesn't it define new approaches or to know what might be acceptable in different countries, etc. I enjoy the travel just for the fun and meeting cool people like you, but I have a sense that being on the ground with the people living whatever issue you're trying to solve has to be a game

changer.

It is in my case, and it totally fuels my creativity and my thoughts. So I find myself amongst people and amongst cultural events most creative. And I bet every, everyone has their own little hooks or little tricks on how to get them, those creative juices flowing. And for me personally, I wouldn't say it's a recipe.

It's definitely diving into those every day. moments of people's lives and during COVID, I even developed a method to do that via zoom online because I'm really addicted to it. So we developed this thing called a moments portal, take me to a place where something has happened in your life where people would share stories and narratives about a very specific, significant moment in their life that has changed something.

And that emotional connection with humans is what gives me access to the place where they dare to embrace change. It's that connection, that emotional connection that allows me to dare them to do certain things, to question certain things, or even to access. the place where they are in their power, because I understand and I see from the cultural context, where is it that those people thrive and are their own, their best version of themselves.

And if you take it from there, people can do. Unimaginable things. We can fly to the moon and you can only do that if you start from a place where you are at home at ease and the best version of yourself.

Yes. I love that portal idea and even why I started the podcast.

And go to the European capitals and, meet the people and do the things we're talking about. But how can we maybe overcome that creatively and be more in touch globally and more aware, socially and culturally.

Okay, so here's a book recommendation. Love it. First Ode to Travel. Just came out from my our good friend Patrick Trefts um, it's it's a book combining.

It's an ode to travel I think it's 30 countries or places in the world where he has been and it combines photography, recipes and small anecdotes. So books are one of the most amazing portals to travel in people's lives, in, in people's realities. It can be a beautiful. Creative cook slash photography book Oh, it's to travel.

It can also be a novel. I remember I grew up in a country where the borders were closed, so we could travel through novels, through books. I could travel to Latin America, reading Isabella Yentes novels. And I understood everything about that culture through those novels, and I cried tears with the pain and the joy of the protagonist in that book movies, art photography.

We have plenty of ways. To travel and delve into other people's realities, universes. I don't think Instagram or TikTok is a good moments portion. I think that's currently, especially in this, very difficult times being misused to, to manipulate opinions. But a really good story can be also shared online.

So

good. We'll put it in the podcast as well. we Will definitely put a link to that book in the show notes because it sounds like it should be on the top of my list for myself and maybe for gift giving as well. Absolutely. Yes. Daniela, as we close, first of all, What a terrific conversation. I really appreciate you being on the show.

My guest has been Daniela Marzavan. She is a, I love this, pro academic. She is both a practical practitioner and a academic teacher and instructor. But as we wrap up, Daniela, I'm really intrigued by this project that you stimulated and kick started among the teachers from different countries and different cities.

And I wonder for All of us somehow are involved in a child's education. And what's a parent, a grandparent, an aunt or uncle, who is really trying to fuel their child's creativity? What we might say to the teachers, but also how we might encourage those students. What insight would you have for us?

Listen to the kids and hold the space for them. That's all we need to do. If you think of doing something for the kids, don't. The best thing you can do for kids is to leave them alone. Kids in their purest naivety and creativity come up with beautiful things. If we don't stop them, interrupt them correct them, give them rules point them to new ideas.

And if we adults feel like playing too, then we should give us permission to play as well and not to interrupt the kids. So my vision of little change there is actually. To help those, and I have two little kids at home so I'm one of the lucky ones that can actually cohabit with two very creative girls.

And my vision of Little Changer is that my job in the future will be obsolete. So I don't need, I don't need my agency, my company, a Changer anymore. I don't need to instruct adults anymore. I don't need to go into companies or government anymore. Because this little changer will come out of schools daring to do whatever they want to do.

So I get to do something else and I'll come up with something else. Oh,

fantastic. So inspirational. Listeners, I hope you'll embrace this idea of being a change darer. And and then we'll add that word little change dares. Let's surround ourselves with those because look at the raw creativity and the enthusiasm.

And like you say, play. Let's embrace more play. So I think with that, I'll go out and get with the kids and we'll play a little out on the yard.

Great idea. I'll go out and play

with the adults. There you go. I love that. Daniela Marzavan has been my guest. Daniela, I can't thank you enough for being on the show.

Thank you so much for having me. And all the best with the classes, the teaching, the travel, the think tanking with the Medinga group, and all the friends that we share together. Thank you. We'll see you again soon and listeners come back. We're going to continue to stamp our creative passport and the kinds of places that Danielle has lived, worked, taught, all across Europe and Asia.

We've talked to Nigeria. We've talked to Brazil. We're traveling all over to really gain a wider lens as we've talked about today on creativity. Communication, inspiration, and what we can do to solve a lot of the crises and put our creative thinking against those. So until next time, I'm Mark Stinson, and we'll be unlocking your world of creativity.

We'll see you next time.