“The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few.” Luke 10:2

In this episode of the Pivot podcast, co-hosts Terri Elton and Dwight Zscheile are joined by guest, Dr. Samuel Deressa.

Deressa began teaching part-time at Concordia University of St. Paul, MN in 2016 and joined the faculty full-time in 2018. Previously, he was a member of the Faculty of Theology (Gudina Tumsa Chair for Justice), 2008-2011, at the Mekane Yesus Seminary, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Deressa teaches courses on Global Christianity, Scripture and its Interpretation, Christian Vocation, and Christianity and the Media.

Stay tuned for more episodes unraveling the complexities of the current state of the church.

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Terri Elton: In Luke ten two, Jesus says this: the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. If you look across the landscape of your congregation, regional church system, or denomination and wonder, where are all the leaders? You are not alone. Many of us are facing what seems like a dearth of leaders for the ministries that currently exist, let alone those the spirit may be calling us to start to reach people in today's world. In this episode, we will be exploring the collaboration and multiplication of church leaders with our good friend here, Doctor Samuel Deressa. Samuel will share with us how new church leaders are being raised up in a context where churches are growing so fast that the number of clergy just can't keep up, which is the reality in his native Ethiopia. Keeping up with exponential church growth isn't a challenge that we're facing here in the US or in other Western context, which is all the more reason why we need to learn from how the Holy Spirit as at work in the global church. These global growing global churches have the same problem as a lot of Western churches, which is: they don't have enough clergy to fill the open spots in local congregations. They have embraced one of the key pivots that we're exploring in this podcast. The pivot from primarily clergy led, lay supported ministry to primarily lay led, clergy supported. We want to explore this approach to leadership and how it may relate to the vitality that we are experiencing. Hello everyone, I'm Terri Elton.

Dwight Zscheile: And I'm Dwight Zscheile. Welcome to the Pivot podcast. If you are new here, this is the podcast where we talk about how the church can faithfully navigate a changing world. We are excited to have Samuel Deressa with us today as our guest. Dr. Deressa is Associate Professor of Theology and the Global South and Fechner Chair for Christian Outreach at Concordia University, Saint Paul. He was previously Gudina Tumsa Chair for justice at the Mechanisms Seminary in Addis Ababa. He's the author or editor of several books on mission leadership, African Christianity, and Public Witness, including Leadership Formation in the African Context. Samuel, welcome to the Pivot podcast.

Samuel Deressa: It's so good to be here.

Dwight Zscheile: So let's begin by having you share a bit about the story of the Mekane Yesus Church. What is the Mekane Yesus Church in Ethiopia and how did it become what I think is the fastest growing Lutheran church in history?

Samuel Deressa: Well, the history of the Lutheran Church in Ethiopia actually started, you know, not long ago, but about 120 years ago, uh, with the conversion of one slave, freed slave by the name of Yesus Nassib, and he was the first person that was baptized as a Lutheran in Ethiopia by the Swedish missionaries. And that was 1868. And his baptism actually is what started, um, the Lutheran faith in Ethiopia. So when the Swedes came to Ethiopia, what they wanted to do was to reach out to the Oromo group in the western part of Ethiopia. Uh, but when they got to the border, then they were blocked because the king didn't want them to go into the interior part, uh, because of being suspicious of all white people coming to Africa. Uh, for obvious reasons, of course, other African countries were being colonized. Uh, so rather than returning back then, what they did was to start, um, a mission station in the present day Eritrea, which was part of Ethiopia. And they began by freeing slaves and and training them as missionaries to go back to their own people and start, uh, the Christian faith. So and on this most were the first that they freed from slavery and, um, you know, taught him and baptized him, uh, and then sent him back to his own people. So he returned back with the translation of the Bible into the local language and Luther's Catechism. And that was the start of the Lutheran church. Uh, 120 years ago. But now, today, we have over 12 million Lutherans in Ethiopia, which is the largest Lutheran church in the world and um, 120 years. But all these Lutherans now in Ethiopia.

Terri Elton: That's amazing. Where do you come into this story? How do you fit into this movement?

Samuel Deressa: Well, I grew up, um, in a Lutheran family, and my father was a professor at the seminary. And I grew up at the Lutheran, at the, uh, seminary campus, uh, where my father taught for years. And, um, you.

Terri Elton: You know, I share that story. Just so you know, I can relate to that.

Samuel Deressa: Yeah. Well, when I was in high school, you know, I loved numbers, and I thought numbers were going to be my whole world. So my first degree was in accounting.

Terri Elton: Wow.

Samuel Deressa: Then in a mysterious way. Then God worked it out for me to do my degree again in theology. And, uh, working at church.

Terri Elton: Was God laughing when he said, okay, you do numbers first, you'll come back?

Samuel Deressa: Yes. Right, I think so.

Terri Elton: So what brought you from Ethiopia here to the United States?

Samuel Deressa: Well, I came for my study here at Luther Seminary in 2011. So I applied to seven different schools. And the best scholarship that I got was Luther. And historically to, um, one of the Ethiopian former church leaders that I really admired was a graduate from here. His name is Gudina Tumsa, uh, who was martyred by, uh, killed by the military government in 1979, because of his faith and known as the Dietrich Bonhoeffer of Africa, uh, a very popular figure in Africa. So I always associated this school with Gudina Tumsa. And when I got accepted here, and it's like I thought like that that was the right place to go for me.

Terri Elton: That's great.

Dwight Zscheile: So if I understand correctly, so much of that exponential growth in the church, um, really happened starting in the mid 20th century and up, you know, really. And it continues to accelerate. Um, share a little bit about what leadership looks like in that context of the Mekane Yesus church and even more broadly in Ethiopia or Africa more generally. Um, what is the ratio of, you know, clergy to lay leaders? What kind of roles are there for lay leaders? How is this all organized? Give us a picture of that.

Samuel Deressa: Well, if you look at the history of the Lutheran Church in Ethiopia for the main part, for the major part, I would say for so many years the church was being led by lay ministers. Even the presidents were lay ministers until very, very recent. I would say, um, 1980s is when the church began to only call ordained pastors as presidents, and so on. It was, basically led by you know, lay leaders such as Emanuel Abraham, the first president of the church, and Francis Stephanos, he was also the late president, the second president of the church. But Francis was ordained later on because there was some pressure, from other churches and, uh, because they were confused, the fact that the Lutheran church in Ethiopia was being led by, a president that was not ordained. Even though he was a theologian, he did study theology. So he got ordained in his latter part of his ministry as the president of the church. Uh, from that time on, um, Kansas church always had ordained pastors as, as presidents, even though that is not the requirement to be the president for the church. But, other positions are open for lay ministers too in the church, whether that is at the local congregation or at the higher offices in the church.

Dwight Zscheile: So what are some of those local roles? Um, and you know, how many, pastors, you know, are there relative to lay leaders? Like, we just give us a little more on the local level, like, a sketch of that.

Samuel Deressa: Well, the situation in Ethiopia is a bit different when compared to here. It's like the pastors ministry and so on. Um, it's like, pastors, you know, each congregation may have pastors and, and there are some congregations that do not have pastors but the ministry of the church, on the one hand, is basically led by mainly lay ministers, even though they whether they have pastors or not. And I can say that the, you know, the ministry in Ethiopia, about 75% of the ministries that happens in the church, in the local congregations are carried out by lay ministers. Um, and the only roles that, the main roles that ordained ministers would play is when it comes to public ministries, such as administering sacraments and so on. That is restricted to the ordained ministers. Uh, otherwise, you know, ministries, other ministries, including preaching, is open for lay ministers. Uh, when I was in Ethiopia, I would say ordained pastors might preach one third of the time throughout the year, and un ordained ministers like evangelists and other elders of the church, and they would be taking turns and preaching, um, as well. And that actually is the same when it comes to the immigrant congregations here in the United States. Whether they are Lutherans or not. Uh, so, uh, you know, I, I'm part of the Lutheran Church in Ethiopia here that worships at Jehovah Lutheran Church, which is on Snelling and Thomas Avenue. Um, so in that congregation now, the same culture and the same tradition is happening whereby ordained ministers, uh, will take turn with, with lay ministers, to do ministry in the church.

Terri Elton: So. I'm a professor. You're a professor. How do they. What does training look like, or what is equipping of these lay folks look like? And, um, what's the balance? I guess that's the word I'm trying to think of between, like, knowing things and just like "on the job" training, you know, I mean, learning as you kind of, apprenticing kind of what what does that look like for the lay leaders in these congregations or these ministries?

Samuel Deressa: Well, there are two things that I began to notice when I arrived here about 13 years ago in terms of the difference in training and so on. And one is like, here, for example, the, uh, the people that goes to seminaries are mostly the ones that are, um, that wants to be pastors and trained to be pastors and so on. Um, whereas in Ethiopia, there are many people that go to the seminary not necessarily to be ordained but just to minister in the church as lay ministers. Um, so the seminaries and Bible schools, you know, may have like 50 or 60% of students, that are interested in becoming, you know, ordained ministers in the church. But I would say about 40 or 50% of them would be medical doctors and nurses or lawyers that go to the seminary just to have, you know, the knowledge when they do their ministry in the church.

Terri Elton: That's interesting.

Samuel Deressa: Yeah.

Dwight Zscheile: So I suspect it's not accidental that there was this very much lay empowered model of ministry that coincided with such exponential growth that somehow these things might be connected. Um, say more about that. Do you think that's the case? And what's what is the kind of culture of both discipleship and empowerment and engagement that would both foster this kind of strong lay leadership tradition, but also then this strong tradition of growth in evangelism and discipleship and, and vitality in the church.

Samuel Deressa: Yeah. Well, that's a good question. And I, I would say, like in the African context, that's a very communal culture so community plays a huge role in these, and also the worship culture there and how they do church and how that is different from here is that there is a Sunday service, of course, for everybody to gather on Sundays and, do worship and so on. But when it comes to other days, there are so many activities, such as, for example, you know, Bible studies and people would come together and do Bible studies and in homes and they have worship and prayer times in, in house churches. I would call them house churches because they function as, as a church, even though they are they're just houses. Anyways, so lots of activities takes place in those houses. And I would say a lot of like spiritual formation happens in those houses, much more than, you know, it happens in the church and, and it's lay ministers that do all those ministries. Um, so women and men and young people and, and they're all participating in that and leading, prayers and playing and praying for the sick and helping each other out in times of difficulties and so on. So that connection and communal life is what impacts the African community at large, and that is how the church really attracts a lot of people from different communities to come in and join the church. And that's what leads so grows, um, in many ways, because their life is always interconnected and full of prayer and full of studying the Bible together and supporting each other when there is a need and so on. So there is a church, but, you know, but it's circled by lots of communities connected to the church, but functioning in different ways and, and doing ministries outside the church in multiple ways.

Terri Elton: It's really interesting to me. Um, the relational, it's almost like a relational network is kind of what is coming to mind about. There's a variety of different smaller groups. And one of the things I'm wondering about, I'm thinking about my experience in Tanzania. And sometimes people have to travel quite a ways for Sunday worship, but have smaller villages or smaller things. What's the geographic kind of distance that we're talking about? You know, with these smaller communities and where they come together and worship? Are they large? Are they small? Are they, do they vary? What what does that entail?

Samuel Deressa: Well, it depends on how large the congregation is. Like when I, the congregation that I attended for most of my life, you know, the smallest I would say nowadays, that is where I grew up and the smallest town would be about 3000. And it goes from 3000 to 6000 and 10 thousand people worshiping in the same church. Um, so that is pretty large. And it can be like, you know, one whole village. Um, and so that that is how they are really connected with each other. And people know each other's name and, they're very connected in, in many ways. It's quite different from my experience here because America is very much individualistic culture.

Terri Elton: Right.

Samuel Deressa: And whereas Africa is quite communal. Um, so families, you know, they, they get together a lot. And, and faith also plays a huge role in the life and ministry of the people. And uh, when I say faith really plays a huge role and here, you know, everything is compartmentalized and faith has its own place and work and family and, and some things like that. Uh, but in the African context, there is not, no part of your life that is not touched by faith. And faith is at the center of everything: family, life and, work and, and everything, that, that also have its own, its own role to play.

Terri Elton: So, so many things. Those are very large congregations, as you think about for us, having served in a very large congregation. Um, the only way that was vibrant was through smaller relational communities, right? So I think a lot of our congregations function more like a big small group than the gathering of a lot of smaller relational groups. And I think there's that's an interesting thing for us to think about. What does it mean to do life together right throughout the week, throughout the month, throughout the seasons and showing up? So you've been here a long time now in the U.S. What are some lessons that you think are listeners in the US could learn from your experience, both in Ethiopia and in bringing some of those Ethiopian principles and commitments here, as you do church in your own context or here with your own people in your church.

Samuel Deressa: Well, one thing I would say is what I noticed in, in lots of different churches here is like, Americans really like to be in control of everything that happens, you know, in their lives, including the church.

Terri Elton: How good are we at that? Not so good some days, right?

Samuel Deressa: But what I really noticed when I was in Africa is there is a lot of room to be surprised. And and I know, like when I've heard leaders always say that we plan for this, but we know that God is a God of surprise. So he's going to surprise us. So they leave a room for surprise. And God has continued to surprise the churches in Ethiopia by blessing them abundantly. With lots of people being added to the church, all the time. So I think one thing the American Church, I think, uh, uld learn is to really trust in God and not to give, once of the freedom to be surprised. And we can plan for something and we should not be annoyed if God comes to surprise us, by doing something new in our churches or lead us into some kind of new ventures and so on.

Terri Elton: I love that: surprise.

Dwight Zscheile: I'm curious about the role of clergy relative to the lay leaders in terms of to what extent are clergy responsible for equipping, mentoring, coaching lay leaders? Or does that happen just really more lay leaders raising up and coaching and mentoring each other?

Samuel Deressa: Yes, the clergy in the Lutheran Church in Ethiopia. And I think that is also similar with, with the Lutheran churches in other parts of Africa, like Tanzania and Kenya in other places. Their main role is simply to coordinate and educate and raise up leaders, to serve in the church. Uh, to put it simply. And that is way different, with the way I have come to see, you know, how leaders understand themselves in American context, and especially now I'm part of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, and I have encountered a lot of pastors, and I've interviewed them, and some of them were my students. And I and I listen to their perspective of what it means to be a pastor. And and here I, for example, remember when I had a conversation with a pastor and a few members and, um, there was a time when the members told me that he has to do everything because that is what he's paid for and that that is, you know, being African, that was a very difficult thing, for me to hear as a response. And, uh, but in the Ethiopian context, that is not the case. And they would have they would like to have pastors, but not a pastor that would come and control everything. But a pastor that can coordinate and help them and equip them to be involved in the life and ministry of the church, as much as possible. And I know that, one thing that I have also begun to notice is like, for example, when the Lutheran churches or other churches in Africa or in Asia or Latin America, say that they have this much, members, they are actually talking about the actual members that are, you know, actively participating in the life and ministry of the church. But that is not the case here. Um, most of the role is is now by ordained ministers and, and so on. And I think, and the church in Africa, in Asia, Latin America, what they are doing, you know, very, very well is in terms of helping everybody in the church be part of the life and ministry of the church, not just come and worship and go back as if they have got nothing to do with the church except go there and worship. And now they have turned from being recipients to to real participants and givers and so on. So for my part, and I can say that my father was a pastor, of course, but I was raised more by my mother. Uh, when it comes to my my spiritual life and lay ministers that taught me in the Sunday schools and you know in Bible schools, in, the Bible studies in the villages and so on. And that is how we all were raised and I think the church in America would benefit really the most if they can learn from those, you know, ministries, ways of doing ministry. And that is what I would say. Yeah.

Terri Elton: Well, I think we have been a positive recipient from a missionary from Ethiopia to at least the Saint Paul area, but certainly beyond with this podcast and in your teaching and your writing, you are an author that has put out many books. I've seen the stack of them. Is there anything that you haven't got a chance to share with us that you want to end with sharing with us today?

Samuel Deressa: What I. The only thing that I wanted to add on top of what I have already said, is also, you know, the interconnection, between congregations and how that really helps the church, you know, revive and revive its ministry and so on. And, this is also, this can also translate in terms of, you know, how lay ministers of different churches can come together and really do miraculous things in their communities, such as feeding the hungry and, and where, you know, development works and, uh, you know, being a voice for the voiceless and so on. And that is one way where lay ministers really, play a huge role in the life and ministry of the church.

Terri Elton: Yeah. Just like we're very individualistic in our own world. Often we treat congregations as their own entity of themselves here. And I think congregations that have opened that and even had partnerships across different denominations, different contexts, that kind of stuff, it's totally enriching, right?

Samuel Deressa: Right. Yeah. Even, you know, congregations within the same denomination here are not that much interconnected. They do their own stuff and they don't know much about each other, and so on. But that is actually not the case in other parts of the world. And they are very much interconnected, and they serve with each other and they know, um, I mean, you know, they always have something to collaborate on and work together, especially when it comes to impacting their own communities, either through development or through issues, you know, that, you know, caring for the environment or the creation care and other stuff that they do together.

Dwight Zscheile: Well, Samuel, you've blessed us with so much wisdom and inspiration in your story. And I think as we here in the U.S. try to navigate this pivot and reimagine how leadership can flourish. I think, um, going back to expecting surprise, expecting God to act, trusting in God's leadership, those are really important lessons for us to hear. So thank you so much for being with us.

Samuel Deressa: Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity.

Terri Elton: And thanks to our listeners for tuning in today. We're signing off from another episode of the Pivot podcast, and we'll see you next week.

Faith+Lead: The Pivot podcast is a production of Luther Seminary's Faith+ Lead. Faith +Lead is an ecosystem of theological resources and training designed to equip Christian disciples and leaders to follow God into a faithful future. Learn more at FaithLead org.