Prince’s “A Place in Heaven” stands out as a hidden gem in his vast catalog. This episode dives deep into its unique musical structure, production history, and the artist’s experimental genius. We unpack the song’s waltz-like 3/4 time signature, unexpected chord changes, and minimalist instrumentation, discussing how Prince’s prolific creativity led to a vault of unreleased tracks. We also analyze the song’s lyrical themes, exploring motifs of longing, innocence, and social commentary rooted in the 1980s, and discuss how Prince’s vocal delivery and compositional choices reflect both vulnerability and innovation.

In the mailbag section, we discuss the importance of kindness, collaboration, and relationship-building in the music industry, drawing from audience messages and personal experience.

Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG6MSmPbX2Y
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/4aJNQt6O0cYHFJU7aDAhRi?si=09e55632804a4f4f
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/a-place-in-heaven-prince-vocal-2020-remaster/1544308811
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B08Q8SDHRJ?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_pOy6j4aLaKcic7q220Hewt8V4&trackAsin=B08QB1MNPY

Other links

• Wikipedia article on Wendy & Lisa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_%26_Lisa
• Lisa version of “A Place in Heaven”: https://youtu.be/vz9DMBoCTVc
• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7gCOF5M0zYS1fBvXgT5ccI?si=7F3yVdEDRRWa_gAArK3AYg
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
• Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/3b47be4937b7490982f4a872db32ec8dsune?ref=dm_sh_AEFZY8KhvSsz1TGoRmasg6zHZ

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?

Trist: Elaine. Elaine. Elaine.

Trist: It's finally happened.

Trist: if we do this right, this will come out the week of or right

Trist: around my favorite artists ever.

Trist: Prince.

Trist: His birthday

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: would have been about the time that this one comes out if we

Trist: timed this correctly.

Trist: Unfortunately for you listeners

Trist: now, I've waited this long

Trist: because now that I've chosen a

Trist: Prince song, the next two years

Trist: of podcasts will only be Prince

Trist: songs.

Trist: Okay, that's not true, but that's why I feel like why I

Trist: haven't chosen one, because I'm such a fan and there's so much

Trist: music that you could talk about.

Trist: but for one, there's a lot more

Trist: other music out there we'll get

Trist: to.

Trist: Two, Elaine's not as big a Prince fan as me.

Trist: And three, there's a lot of

Trist: lyrics to Prince songs that we

Trist: just frankly wouldn't talk about

Trist: here on this family friendly

Trist: forum.

Trist: However, we do indeed have, for the first time, a Prince song on

Trist: this, and I chose what up until about 2020 was a bootleg.

Elaine: Oh!

Trist: So it has finally had an official release and we'll talk

Trist: about that a bit.

Trist: This song is "A Place in Heaven."

Elaine: Okay. Well, before we pause and listen to the song, can you

Elaine: remind us how we should be listening to music as a part of

Elaine: the Musician's Loupe community?

Trist: Yeah. We here at the Musician's

Trist: Loupe strongly encourage you to

Trist: improve your listening

Trist: situation.

Trist: If you are able to, get the nice

Trist: headphones, get the good

Trist: speakers, go into the quiet room

Trist: where you can just listen for a

Trist: minute.

Trist: Do yourself that treat.

Trist: If you can't do that, we are

Trist: thrilled to have you listen no

Trist: matter what.

Trist: So thank you for being here.

Trist: We just like to add that.

Trist: We don't take enough time in our lives to just listen to the best

Trist: quality that we can.

Trist: So we just encourage that.

Elaine: All right, so we are going to leave the links to the song in

Elaine: the show notes.

Elaine: Feel free to pause this, listen to the song a couple of times,

Elaine: and then come right back.

Elaine: And we are back.

Elaine: Okay. That was not what I expected.

Elaine: I think what I was expecting was much more of his typical funk

Elaine: rock, what Prince is really known for on the airwaves,

Elaine: "Kiss" and "Raspberry Beret," you know, those types of songs.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And this was something that was very, very different.

Elaine: Can you tell us a

Trist: Well,

Elaine: little bit about it?

Trist: yeah, that's one of the things.

Trist: I often say, being such a big

Trist: fan, if you want me to make a

Trist: playlist for someone of Prince

Trist: music.

Trist: First, I need to know if the playlist is supposed to make

Trist: them love Prince or hate Prince, because I can make a playlist

Trist: that'll probably do either.

Trist: Because there's so much music.

Trist: Even being such a big fan, I can

Trist: make a playlist of music that I

Trist: would probably never listen to

Trist: because it would just be like my

Trist: not favorites.

Trist: but to me, that's just a sign of a prolific artist and an artist

Trist: that, wow, you take a lot of big swings, do a lot of stuff.

Trist: And then when you narrow it down, you get all the really

Trist: brilliant things, but you got to try a lot.

Trist: So this was the case.

Trist: And as I mentioned, who knows?

Trist: It's tough to say now that he's passed, people try to talk

Trist: about, what he would have wanted, fans like, oh, he didn't

Trist: want these songs to come out.

Trist: No, he wanted to come out

Trist: eventually, now that he owned

Trist: all of the rights to his own

Trist: songs.

Trist: And there's like all these different narratives about the

Trist: vault of music that he recorded because he was so prolific.

Trist: And then there are interviews with engineers who are like,

Trist: well, no, I recorded a song one day with him.

Trist: We spent the entire day making this song.

Trist: And it was one of my favorites that we had done in years.

Trist: And he asked me to erase it.

Trist: And I said, no, no, no, maybe

Trist: you should think about it, and

Trist: maybe come back tomorrow and

Trist: listen.

Trist: And he's like, hey, if you don't erase this, I'm gonna erase it

Trist: when you leave.

Trist: So that to me and this engineer said that, that eliminates the

Trist: thought in my head of like, oh, if it's in the vault but they

Trist: never released it, he doesn't really want anybody to hear it,

Trist: or he would have put it out.

Trist: Susan Rogers, his long time recording engineer, she

Trist: mentioned that in a pod I heard.

Trist: She says, oh, you know, I was a part of some songs that he

Trist: really didn't want people to hear because he deleted them.

Trist: He erased them from existence.

Trist: Sometimes against my better wishes.

Trist: But that's why he was the boss and I was just working.

Trist: So anyway, to come back around to what you're talking about.

Trist: There's so much music that it's very easy to play songs from

Trist: Prince that don't necessarily sound like what you might think

Trist: they sound like.

Elaine: Well, let me start out by giving some of my first impressions.

Elaine: First of all, this is a song in three four.

Elaine: It sounded very music boxy, you

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: know, in terms of a very, waltzy kind of thing.

Elaine: Very simple in terms of instrumentation, simple drums,

Elaine: simple pianos, a little harpsichord sound that came in.

Elaine: One of the previous songs that

Elaine: we had reviewed was a Stevie

Elaine: Wonder song where the chords

Elaine: change in kind of unusual ways,

Elaine: and it felt like it moved with

Elaine: the music.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And in this case, I felt like the anchor moved multiple times.

Elaine: Like the key seemed to move.

Elaine: And the second time I listened to it, I was like, it didn't

Elaine: seem to move as much.

Elaine: So maybe I got used to it, but there was just something in

Elaine: there where it seemed like maybe he was playing around with

Elaine: something where he was changing keys to go with the melody.

Elaine: And, in some places it worked really well.

Elaine: And some places I was like, I

Elaine: don't know where you were going

Elaine: with that.

Elaine: But I think that there was just this sense of freedom in playing

Elaine: in that kind of thing.

Elaine: What did you hear in terms of the key changes?

Trist: Yeah. On first listen, there are some chord changes in places

Trist: that you don't expect them that lead places you don't expect.

Trist: So then since you've now heard it, when you listen to it again,

Trist: it's not as much of a surprise.

Trist: So that's why it doesn't seem as odd the next time.

Trist: But the very first time, it's

Trist: like, especially since it's set

Trist: up, like you said, it's like a

Trist: very music box, very

Trist: predictable.

Trist: The 3/4 seems predictable.

Trist: The chords.

Trist: Okay, I know where this is going, even through the verse.

Trist: And then there's a little segueway.

Trist: I can't even remember the spot

Trist: that it's in, but this little

Trist: connecting where the harmonies

Trist: of the vocals are weird and the

Trist: chord underneath it is kind of

Trist: weird.

Trist: And I don't remember exactly what it is, but I love that.

Trist: Just because I love surprises in music.

Trist: And that is definitely a place that it does it.

Trist: It still catches me even though I know it's coming.

Trist: The music geek in me should have taken it to my music theory

Trist: class and we could have picked it apart what it really is.

Trist: But he wasn't married to that.

Trist: He wasn't like, oh, well, let's see, is this the secondary

Trist: dominant of this?

Trist: If I actually change keys or am I just in a relative key?

Trist: Or am I- He doesn't think like that at all.

Trist: He just does the sounds that he likes and what he wants to do.

Trist: And while there's not a lot of

Trist: that, there are few places in

Trist: his music where there's a chord

Trist: or a little progression that

Trist: just surprises you as it is not

Trist: typical.

Trist: And it's usually in that case, it's not a bunch of that.

Trist: It's usually everything is set

Trist: up and everything sounds very

Trist: standard.

Trist: Like you can almost predict where the chords are going.

Trist: And then something just out of left field happens.

Trist: So that part is not new for him.

Trist: He does that

Elaine: Yeah,

Trist: here

Elaine: it definitely

Trist: and there.

Elaine: sounded a lot more avant garde than I expected out of Prince.

Elaine: But I guess, given how prolific he was, I felt like he explored

Elaine: a lot in a lot

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: of his different pieces.

Elaine: After he passed away, a bunch of

Elaine: clips went viral of him just

Elaine: noodling as he was doing a sound

Elaine: check.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And I think it wasn't until that point in time that I realized

Elaine: just how brilliant he was.

Elaine: He was just able to noodle and really play around on those keys

Elaine: and vocals, in

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: a way that I was really impressed by.

Elaine: It was just coming off the cuff for him.

Trist: And then you're talking about the vault.

Trist: The reason there is a vault of music, because he would just

Trist: write all the time.

Trist: And record.

Trist: He had a recording studio before he built Paisley Park, his

Trist: eventual home and studio.

Trist: His normal home, just a regular house in the neighborhood had a

Trist: studio in it, where they would do this stuff.

Trist: And actually that's where this was recorded.

Trist: This originally comes from 1986.

Trist: There's also a version of it

Trist: with Lisa, you know, Wendy &

Trist: Lisa that were in the

Trist: Revolution.

Trist: There's another version of the song with her singing the lead

Trist: vocal as well.

Trist: But if we're going to do a

Trist: Prince track, finally, I chose

Trist: the version that had him singing

Trist: it.

Trist: Although if you hear his voice, it's very much in his kind of

Trist: female voice sounding thing.

Trist: It's like he's almost doing a demo intending that it's going

Trist: to be Lisa singing it, as he would do a lot of times.

Trist: If he's doing them something for Sheila E or when he did Manic

Trist: Monday, or any of the songs that he wrote for other people, a lot

Trist: of times it was either because either he intentionally was

Trist: writing it for them.

Trist: And so he put it up in that

Trist: register and he could sing it

Trist: there so he could demo it for

Trist: them.

Trist: or it's just where it landed.

Trist: And then it lent itself to the female lead.

Trist: So I think that's probably the case.

Trist: So yeah, 1986 is when it was recorded.

Trist: and then not until 2020, on "The

Trist: Sign 'O' the Times," Super

Trist: Deluxe edition.

Trist: So what the Prince trust has been doing is when they

Trist: rerelease these albums, very much in a marketable kind of

Trist: way, they go through the albums that we've already bought and

Trist: remaster them and clean them up and reissue them, but then

Trist: they'll do these extras where there's a regular version and

Trist: then maybe a two disc with some extra songs, and then there's

Trist: like this massive collection.

Trist: And this was one of those.

Trist: "Sign 'O' the Times," Super Deluxe edition.

Trist: The original album is already a double album, so when you buy

Trist: the Super Deluxe edition, it comes with a lot of music from

Trist: the same time period as the music on that album.

Trist: So that's kind of how they're slowly disseminating and making

Trist: as much as they can out of instead of just, okay, well,

Trist: here's all the music that's ever been in the vault.

Trist: You can all check it out now.

Trist: You know, no good business would do it that way.

Trist: There's like two full CDs worth of just stuff from the vault

Trist: that never did get released.

Elaine: Going back to what you were saying before, I loved what you

Elaine: were saying about where it was placed in his voice because it

Elaine: was in kind of a scratchy place in his voice.

Elaine: It was very high in his range,

Elaine: and certainly from a vocalist's

Elaine: perspective, he just has a huge,

Elaine: huge range.

Elaine: I personally,

Trist: Right.

Elaine: I think like the lower part of his range a little bit more.

Elaine: And you heard

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: that in the harmonies because you had that in there as well.

Elaine: and certainly lots of his popular pieces do have him going

Elaine: up into that high range as well.

Elaine: So I just thought it was interesting to listen to this

Elaine: and listen to some places also where his words were maybe a

Elaine: little bit swallowed or garbled.

Elaine: when you were saying it sounded

Elaine: like a demo, I was like, oh,

Elaine: actually, that makes a lot of

Elaine: sense.

Elaine: that being said, I feel like the

Elaine: instrumentation was very

Elaine: intentional.

Elaine: It was very tender.

Elaine: And as I got into the lyrics, I really was like, oh, it is a

Elaine: very tender piece, from a lyrics perspective as well.

Elaine: So I kind of understand maybe

Elaine: where he was going from that

Elaine: perspective.

Trist: a lot of those tunes in the vault, it's kind of like that

Trist: was an idea.

Trist: Sometimes he would pull

Trist: something out and just add

Trist: another thing to it that maybe

Trist: was missing.

Trist: And then it fit on a new album that he was working on, or it

Trist: would just sit there like this.

Trist: I think there was an album it

Trist: was probably intended for at

Trist: some point.

Trist: There were several albums that got abandoned.

Trist: So I think it may have been part

Trist: of a project that ended up not

Trist: coming out.

Elaine: Interesting.

Elaine: Well, let's switch and talk about the lyrics because

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: there was a lot to talk about there, and even just you telling

Elaine: me about it being originally from the mid 1980s, even gives a

Elaine: little bit more shading to the lyrics and the analysis of it.

Elaine: I'm really interested in hearing what you think of the lyrics,

Elaine: because I certainly did a breakdown from my perspective

Elaine: and would love to hear what you would have to say first.

Trist: Well, for two weeks in a row.

Trist: I'm turning it around on you.

Trist: I definitely want to know what

Trist: you think of first, because of

Trist: course, I've heard this one a

Trist: lot and have a lot of different

Trist: ideas, and probably read more

Trist: about this song than I can even

Trist: remember to see different

Trist: people's interpretations.

Trist: So your first listen like this,

Trist: I definitely want to hear from

Trist: you first.

Elaine: Okay, so I'm up for this challenge here.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: So as I was taking a look at this, one of the things that I

Elaine: look for, especially in poetry is what are repeated phrases or

Elaine: what are repeated words in it

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: and certainly "in heaven."

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And as I took a look at it,

Elaine: there was a very interesting

Elaine: parallelism in there where there

Elaine: are four different subjects, all

Elaine: having to do something with "in

Elaine: heaven."

Elaine: So it starts out with "she wants a place in heaven."

Elaine: So describing

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: a character, "you

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: want a place in heaven."

Elaine: So talking specifically to the audience.

Elaine: So breaking that third wall,

Elaine: "there must be children in

Elaine: heaven."

Elaine: So talking

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: about these hypothetical children.

Elaine: And then the fourth one is "we all want a place in heaven."

Elaine: And

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: so there's this relationship

Elaine: with these four different groups

Elaine: of people with a concept of

Elaine: heaven.

Elaine: And each one of them is

Elaine: described in a slightly

Elaine: different way.

Elaine: So starting with "she," that one was the most, I'd say brutal.

Elaine: It was like, we're talking about nooses.

Elaine: We're talking about death.

Elaine: It was just like, oh my goodness.

Elaine: I felt like it was brutal because it was really kind of

Elaine: like this rope of self pity only

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: requires a noose.

Elaine: It really is confrontational with the sense of how this woman

Elaine: feels about her relationship with heaven and how she really

Elaine: wants to go there.

Elaine: And he makes this observation that heaven and hell are pretty

Elaine: much the same in this case.

Elaine: And so I'm like, oh, that's deep, man.

Elaine: That's really deep.

Elaine: So the second one is "you."

Elaine: And the you is that there's a sense of like whining that I

Elaine: get, he's calling

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: the, you like the audience out on whining because "life is what

Elaine: you make of it" is what he says

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: in the lyrics.

Elaine: "Love comes to those who care."

Elaine: And so it just seems like he

Elaine: doesn't have any pity for the

Elaine: people who are complaining about

Elaine: it.

Elaine: So the third one is children.

Elaine: He's talking about these young children who have passed away,

Elaine: they should just run heaven.

Elaine: And so there is this sense of utopia with the innocence.

Elaine: And so he has that observation there.

Elaine: He spends a lot of time on that.

Elaine: And then the last little piece that it wraps up is we all want

Elaine: a place in heaven.

Elaine: And so there's a little bit of a

Elaine: call to action here, in talking

Elaine: about, our core fundamental

Elaine: desire to be a part of this

Elaine: heavenly environment.

Elaine: But it was interesting because everything that he talked about

Elaine: was kind of hotel ish.

Elaine: Like he's talking about suites.

Elaine: He's talking about room service.

Elaine: But he does say that this is not a full service location.

Elaine: Like don't be lazy.

Elaine: And so there's an exhortation

Trist: Right.

Elaine: in there.

Elaine: And so if I were to summarize,

Elaine: it was like fear, sloth,

Elaine: innocence, and

Trist: MM.

Elaine: a call to action.

Trist: MM.

Elaine: And I just thought it was just an interesting parallel of all

Elaine: four of these pieces.

Elaine: But there was so much room for

Elaine: interpretation that you could

Elaine: practically drive

Trist: MM.

Elaine: a truck through it.

Elaine: And so I could see where there

Elaine: would be a lot of other

Elaine: interpretations.

Elaine: I'm just taking a look at these

Elaine: phrases and see where they're

Elaine: repeated and maybe that's

Elaine: pointing us in this direction

Elaine: and that sense of structural

Elaine: repetition, gives me the sense

Elaine: of, okay, these are all

Elaine: parallels.

Trist: Right?

Elaine: But then I put it in the anchor in the context of time.

Elaine: And you were talking about the

Elaine: mid 1980s and I was like, AIDS

Elaine: epidemic.

Elaine: I was thinking about young children dying in Africa.

Elaine: I was thinking about starvation.

Elaine: I'm thinking about, food insecurity, famine that was

Elaine: happening in the 80s.

Elaine: And so much of this happening in the context of what was

Elaine: happening in the world.

Elaine: And I could understand, especially thinking about

Elaine: children dying, which

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: is that third section there that he was talking about.

Elaine: In some ways, I feel like it might be commentary on apathy.

Elaine: It might be commentary on our desires to be close to heaven

Elaine: and that taking work.

Elaine: And so I don't exactly know, like this is just a guess.

Elaine: But there is something about that mid 1980s that is very

Elaine: indicative of where he might have been going with this song.

Trist: I like those last two things you talked about.

Trist: I love the there must be

Trist: children in heaven, ones who

Trist: know nothing from hate, kind of

Trist: pointing out the kind of the

Trist: thing we all know, you're not

Trist: born hating.

Trist: You have to learn

Elaine: I

Trist: it. You

Elaine: mean,

Trist: learn

Elaine: that

Trist: it

Elaine: also

Trist: from others.

Elaine: brings up racism and apartheid.

Elaine: Like

Trist: Right.

Elaine: both of which have come up before.

Elaine: And I know that we've talked

Elaine: about the concept of apartheid

Elaine: in the Paul Simon song that we

Elaine: did, "Diamonds

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: on the Soles of Her Shoes."

Elaine: So I think all of that fitting into the same kind of time

Elaine: frame, really begins to cement it in my head.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: Like we're talking about love, we're talking about hate.

Elaine: We're talking about young people dying.

Elaine: We're talking about babies of all colors.

Elaine: There's a lot of stuff in there that hints maybe at racism,

Elaine: apartheid and all the stuff that was going on in the 1980s.

Trist: And like what I was getting at

Trist: there, "ones who know nothing

Trist: from hate.

Trist: three year old leaders of all colors.

Trist: I feel safer with them in control."

Trist: That hasn't really changed since the 80s.

Trist: Like remembering we don't come out hating.

Trist: We learn it.

Trist: It's part of the environment.

Trist: It's taught to us.

Trist: This is not something that's natural.

Trist: he's kind of getting at there.

Trist: And like you said, we all want a place in heaven.

Trist: Suites of that level are few.

Trist: So you're not always going to get the suite.

Trist: You have to work.

Trist: There's no room service.

Trist: if you want to get to there, you have to work on it here.

Trist: And the transition I was remembering, when you were going

Trist: through the lyrics, when we talked about the chord changes

Trist: that had the weird shift.

Trist: It happens on the lyrics.

Trist: "Why are the ones so afraid to live / much more afraid to die?"

Elaine: Oh, yeah.

Trist: That's where the unevenness of of the chords happen also.

Trist: And the weird harmony happens on that line.

Trist: "It's as easy to imagine

Trist: laughing / when you really hear

Trist: a cry."

Elaine: Yeah.

Trist: So all that unsettled harmonic

Trist: stuff happens right there with

Trist: the

Elaine: Right.

Trist: lyrics.

Trist: So whether it's super purposeful or not or just a happenstance,

Trist: it's a good spot.

Elaine: Well, this is one where we could spend a lot of time thinking

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: about it and, really picking

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: it apart.

Elaine: But we're limited on time.

Elaine: And so is there anything else that you wanted to say about the

Elaine: song before we move on?

Trist: Oh that's it.

Trist: I think when we do the links, we

Trist: can go ahead and link the other

Trist: version.

Trist: I don't know the story about

Trist: this, there's also a version

Trist: where I think the song just

Trist: plays backwards.

Trist: And on bootlegs that I would see, it literally would have the

Trist: title all spelled backwards, with the last letters being

Trist: capitalized and everything.

Trist: so I don't know exactly if it was going to be on another album

Trist: that he didn't use it on, but eventually snuck through there

Trist: from some different people.

Trist: There's always rumors that he

Trist: was the one that would let them

Trist: go.

Trist: That's just fun to talk about.

Trist: Whether he leaked his own songs or not.

Trist: Basically,

Elaine: The Prince conspiracy theories are coming out

Trist: yeah,

Elaine: right now.

Trist: basically getting him out there.

Trist: But there was a bootleg market for sure.

Trist: The Prince Black Album is probably one of the most sought

Trist: after bootleg albums ever.

Trist: Anyway, that's very much a part of his lore as the bootlegs

Trist: because he had so much material that just sitting there that at

Trist: some point people went, I'm gonna make a little recording

Trist: and give this to my friend, and then things would just get out.

Trist: But anyway, we'll put other

Trist: versions in the comments and,

Trist: y'all can let us know what you

Trist: think.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: So let's move on to our next segment, which is.

Trist: 🎶 Mailbag, mailbag. 🎶

Elaine: That's right.

Elaine: The mailbag.

Elaine: And if you'd like to get a hold

Elaine: of us, you can email us at

Elaine: [email protected],

Elaine: that's L o u p e. Or you can

Elaine: contact us via Instagram or

Elaine: Threads @themusiciansloupe.

Trist: That's a great place you can let us know some songs you think we

Trist: should maybe check out, or maybe tell us your favorite Prince

Trist: bootleg or lesser known song.

Trist: Or any other facts, with the

Trist: Prince stuff, there's so much

Trist: out there.

Trist: So if you have any other info about this song that maybe we

Trist: didn't cover, let us know.

Trist: That's a good place to do it.

Elaine: Okay, so this week's mailbag comes from Threads.

Elaine: It's a conversation between a

Elaine: couple of people from January of

Elaine: 2026, Cameron Mizell and Mila

Elaine: Rusecka.

Elaine: So Cameron writes, "The greatest musicians I've been around who

Elaine: are at the top of the game and make music that will outlive all

Elaine: of us, are also incredibly kind and generous people.

Elaine: I think it's good for the rest

Elaine: of us to remember that the music

Elaine: comes first.

Elaine: Egos just get in the way.

Elaine: Show your fellow musicians some grace.

Elaine: Try to elevate the music.

Elaine: Maybe make the world a tiny bit better in the process."

Elaine: And Mila replies, "Exactly.

Elaine: Talent isn't measured by how

Elaine: loud you are or how many eyes

Elaine: follow you.

Elaine: It's measured by what you let

Elaine: live in the world and how you

Elaine: treat the people carrying it

Elaine: with you.

Elaine: Grace doesn't make the music smaller, it makes it last."

Elaine: And so I think that where I'd

Elaine: really like to talk about is

Elaine: what is the nature of

Elaine: relationship and what is the

Elaine: importance of relationship in

Elaine: making music and especially in a

Elaine: music career?

Trist: Oh man, it's so incredibly important.

Trist: But I think, as is often the time I when you kind of talk

Trist: about generalities about music, music business, musicians, so

Trist: many of the the basic principles don't necessarily have anything

Trist: to do with being exclusively of the music industry.

Trist: Like that's any industry, the

Trist: greatest blank I've ever been

Trist: around or who are at the top of

Trist: the game and make blank that

Trist: will outlive us all are also

Trist: incredibly kind and generous

Trist: people.

Trist: Sure, there are outliers.

Trist: "Remember that one incredible

Trist: whoever that was just a total

Trist: jerk?

Trist: They were still really incredible, even though they

Trist: were a terrible person."

Trist: I guess that still can happen in the world, that you can be this

Trist: amazing artist and somehow have this other side of you.

Trist: But in general, I would say this is true of most, of like

Trist: business leaders, some of the best leaders of organizations,

Trist: of teams of musicians, artists.

Trist: I notice, in my world of not necessarily being a musician,

Trist: but as a sound engineer, as I travel the world and meet other

Trist: sound engineers, usually the best engineers I've ever met,

Trist: especially because the sound I'm doing is usually for a lot of

Trist: vocals, an a cappella group or a big vocal thing.

Trist: And there are some very specific things that you do that maybe

Trist: you could have mixed for bands and toured with them for dozens

Trist: and dozens of years.

Trist: But this eighty percent of the job is a lot of the same.

Trist: But there's this other little percentage of stuff that's just

Trist: a little different.

Trist: And even in this community, the sound engineers I've met, the

Trist: ones that are really good at what they do.

Trist: but almost just kind of, "Oh, I've done this a long time.

Trist: I really have no interest in

Trist: what you do because it's a

Trist: smaller genre and it's not as

Trist: big as the things that I've done

Trist: before.

Trist: And I've done this longer than you.

Trist: So what could I possibly learn from you?" Is sometimes the

Trist: feeling that I will get.

Trist: Maybe after hearing the show and seeing some things, I'll get.

Trist: "Oh, that was cool how you did that.

Trist: I didn't even think that that was a thing.

Trist: How did you do that with that one voice or whatever."

Trist: So sometimes that'll get asked, but usually the best ones, the

Trist: ones that I think, oh, this is world class touring engineer

Trist: almost right away.

Trist: Oh, you mix for this group.

Trist: How do you do that?

Trist: What are the-" Right away, it's inquisitive.

Trist: What is it you do that makes them-" you know, they're trying

Trist: to get better just in case they come across that.

Trist: So they're always trying to learn.

Trist: I would think that same thing would apply to athletes, some of

Trist: the greatest athletes.

Trist: It's like, hey, what else can I learn?

Trist: What's your training regimen?

Trist: What do you do?

Trist: Um,

Elaine: Yeah, that sense of curiosity.

Trist: yeah.

Elaine: Right?

Elaine: And just like genuine sense of connection.

Trist: Yeah. There's always like the balance in all of these things.

Trist: We always joke that, well, the

Trist: balance has to be your

Trist: personality.

Trist: How nice of a person you are a balanced with the talent.

Trist: So some jobs, they don't really need your talent to be amazing.

Trist: It just needs to be solid enough to fulfill the job.

Trist: And it's almost just as

Trist: important that you're a good

Trist: person and you're fun to hang

Trist: out with.

Trist: And then there are some

Trist: particular musical things that,

Trist: man, we need to find somebody

Trist: that can do this special,

Trist: exemplary thing.

Trist: And if they really are good at that thing that's really rare

Trist: that we can't find.

Trist: we'd prefer them to be a great person, but even if they're not

Trist: really that great and they're kind of a bummer to hang out

Trist: with, sometimes we really need them because they're the only

Trist: ones that can do this thing.

Trist: So there's a balance sometimes.

Trist: You can get away with not being the most bright, sunshiny person

Trist: to be around if you're really good at this thing that you're

Trist: needed for, but most of the time you need a balance.

Elaine: I like what you're saying about that.

Elaine: And I'm trying to apply it to other areas of- certainly,

Elaine: working in the corporate world.

Elaine: You do get a sense of who are

Elaine: the people that you want to be

Elaine: working with?

Elaine: And who are the people that you want to be working for?

Elaine: I have to say, I don't speak on behalf of my company.

Elaine: But I have been at my company for over twenty years and people

Elaine: ask me why I've stayed.

Elaine: And it's this unique combination of the best and the brightest in

Elaine: the industry, but everyone's really, really nice.

Elaine: Like the number of jerks that

Elaine: you find at my company is very

Elaine: low.

Elaine: And I think that that is actually something that I

Elaine: really, really enjoy.

Elaine: Because the second thing that I firmly believe in is that you're

Elaine: a sum of the people that you hang around with.

Elaine: Like you are so influenced by the people that you spend the

Elaine: most amount of time with.

Elaine: And so certainly that impacts

Trist: To talk

Elaine: you

Trist: to

Elaine: with

Trist: you.

Elaine: like, okay, how do you choose your friends?

Elaine: But I think the other thing is

Elaine: what kind of energy are you

Elaine: surrounded by when you are

Elaine: actually working?

Elaine: And I don't know about you, but I spend more time at work than I

Elaine: do with my friends because I'm at work all the time

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: and I spend time with my friends when I can.

Elaine: But I think that that is something that I really do think

Elaine: about and I'm a lot more conscious about, especially the

Elaine: older I get.

Elaine: Like, how am I influenced and how am I influencing others?

Elaine: How am I making space for them

Elaine: to be the best people that they

Elaine: can be?

Elaine: And I think the more people who have that kind of attitude, the

Elaine: better the collaboration can be.

Elaine: And no matter what, whether it's in music or whether it's in

Elaine: corporate world, in business world, in tech or whatnot.

Elaine: And so I hundred percent agree with you there.

Elaine: I think that there's a sense of

Elaine: not only collegiality, but also

Elaine: authenticity that

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: can really lead to that sense of, okay, this is a person who I

Elaine: want to work with, and hopefully I'm a person that they want to

Elaine: work with because I bring the same kind of energy.

Trist: Absolutely.

Trist: you want to work with people.

Trist: you have to be around them all the time.

Trist: It's a big reality of the music touring world.

Trist: if there's people that are going to be in the band with you that

Trist: maybe aren't a part of the actual creative team for your

Trist: music, but you need other people to go on the road, whether it's

Trist: sound engineers, other crew, other people that will be

Trist: working closely with you, your tour manager, all of those

Trist: people, you are going to be with them all the time, 24/7 for

Trist: whatever amount of time it is.

Trist: It's usually, hey, this isn't rocket science.

Trist: There's a lot of people that can do this.

Trist: And if there's a lot of people

Trist: that can do this that are nice

Trist: people, we're going to hire them

Trist: before you.

Elaine: Yeah, I definitely have some

Elaine: experiences with that going on

Elaine: vacation with my family and

Elaine: especially what?

Elaine: Okay,

Trist: You can't

Elaine: so.

Trist: trade them out, though.

Elaine: No, no, no, I'm actually, I love my family.

Elaine: Especially traveling with my parents on bus tours that

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: cater to an older demographic.

Elaine: And so

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: I find myself as like one of the

Elaine: youngest people on this bus

Elaine: tour.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And I will say that being crammed on a bus with a bunch of

Elaine: strangers, every single little irritation just seems to magnify

Elaine: the longer that you are in proximity to them.

Elaine: And

Trist: Right.

Elaine: so the people who you really

Elaine: enjoy, you really enjoy being

Elaine: around, and

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: the people who are annoying turn

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: out to be so much more annoying after six

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: days

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: of being in close proximity with them.

Elaine: And so I agree with you.

Elaine: I can understand, that

Elaine: especially if you're on tour for

Elaine: weeks on end, you really want to

Elaine: make sure that it is going to be

Elaine: survivable.

Elaine: And hopefully enjoyable!

Elaine: It's not necessarily a situation

Elaine: where you're going to loathe

Elaine: your entire existence after two

Elaine: weeks.

Trist: That's the best thing about tour

Trist: is just having fun, it's like,

Trist: wow, we get to go make music and

Trist: travel around and there's so

Trist: many positives.

Trist: and you hear story after story of that band, on their fifth

Trist: album or their seventh album when it's like, okay, all the

Trist: newness has worn off and it's not as exciting anymore.

Trist: So you always hear from bands like, yeah, after all these

Trist: years, we still have a blast.

Trist: I mean, it's like regular relationships.

Trist: Hey, twenty one years in, we still actually like each other,

Trist: and we're still married, and we still find a way to keep happy

Trist: and get in each other's way and get out of each other's way in

Trist: the right times.

Trist: And it's like that.

Trist: With your relationship, it's just you and one other person,

Trist: with like your tour and band, it's like a whole bunch of

Trist: people, so it's like five, six, ten way marriage.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: So I guess it's just a call to

Elaine: all of us to be the type of

Elaine: people who you would love to

Elaine: work with.

Trist: Absolutely.

Elaine: And this is a challenge and an encouragement, I think, for

Elaine: those of us that you don't necessarily have to be the best.

Elaine: Sometimes it is being the best friend, you know,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: and being able to hang out with

Elaine: people and doing a great job,

Elaine: but not

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: necessarily having to be the best and seeking that kind of

Elaine: perfection that I think all of us have in our heads.

Elaine: It's like, oh, we should be this big thing to be worthy.

Elaine: But I think what I'm hearing here is that there's a lot more.

Elaine: You're bringing your entire self when

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: you're going on tour, you're bringing your entire self when

Elaine: you're on stage.

Elaine: And so those are important parts, too.

Trist: Yeah. I mean, "Life's what you

Trist: make it / Stop whining / Love

Trist: comes to those who care," is

Trist: what Prince would say about

Trist: that.

Elaine: Okay, so let's go ahead and wrap it up.

Elaine: And one of the things that we would love for you all to do as

Elaine: listeners of the Musicians Loupe is to please share an episode.

Elaine: If this is an episode that you liked.

Elaine: If this isn't one that you liked

Elaine: and you like a previous one, we

Elaine: encourage you to share that with

Elaine: a friend.

Elaine: We would love to get more people

Elaine: engaging with us because we

Elaine: think that listening to music is

Elaine: fun.

Elaine: It's a connecting thing.

Trist: And if maybe you think right

Trist: away someone that you know

Trist: wouldn't jump right into a

Trist: podcast, just share one of the

Trist: playlists on all the places the

Trist: podcasts are available and all

Trist: the streams that we provide in

Trist: the show notes for the listening

Trist: examples.

Trist: There are playlists of the

Trist: songs, so just share the

Trist: playlist.

Trist: And then maybe if someone digs one of the songs, they will jump

Trist: in and listen to us squawk about it for a while.

Trist: Maybe learn a little something.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So with that, we're going to wrap up for this week and we

Elaine: will see you next time.

Trist: See you next time.

Trist: Okay, bye.

Trist: I'm going to Denmark.

Elaine: My first time listening to it, I was like, what was that?!

Trist: lyrics we can actually talk about.

Elaine: Yeah. And still retain our G rating.

Trist: why can't I think of the name of it?