E60 - From Big Frank to Frank: A Journey of Redemption

Speaker: 00:00:18

Hello everyone.

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And welcome to a

prisoner's pardon podcast.

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I'm Michi J your host.

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And today we have a special show.

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As always, today we are

going to be talking to Frank.

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Frank is a good friend of mine.

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He is a employee of Partners in Hope.

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You heard me talk many times

about Partners in Hope.

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It's a great, great organization.

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He is the re entry recruiter there.

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Now Frank was formerly incarcerated,

but he is out and he is doing great.

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And I want you to hear from him because

he is doing some amazing things.

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Now let me introduce you to Frank.

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Hi Frank.

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Hi, how you doing miss J?

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Hey, how are you?

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It's good.

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Good.

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Good.

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It's good to have you on the show.

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I thought I would have you on

because you have an incredible story.

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I want you to talk about, you know, what.

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What it is that you do at Partners in

Hope, and what are you all about now?

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Because people need to know how

great you are and what you're

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doing there at Partners in Hope.

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Well, what I do here, I'm the re entry

recruiter here at Partners in Hope.

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And what I try to do is get men and

women who have been impacted by the

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system to change their way of thinking.

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, the way they thought before they went into

the system and the way they're thinking

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now needs to be just totally different.

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And I discovered that, throughout

my 26 years of incarceration, that

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I had to change my way of thinking

in order for me to be able to come

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out back in here to society and be

able to function or be successful.

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And when I say successful, I don't mean

in a monetary way, but I mean, just

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in a practical way of just being able

to live out here and not just exist.

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So you mentioned you had to

change your way of thinking.

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How did you do that?

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Well, , basically I had to really , just

strip myself down from what I was and

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who I was to become the person or the

man of God that God had , designed me to

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be, you know, uh, if I may use scripture

in Romans chapter 12, verse one, it

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talks about us renewing our minds.

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And I believe that's where it had

to start in the renewing of my mind.

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So to renew my mind.

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All the things that I thought about

I did as a child as a person growing

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up before I was incarcerated.

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I had to just really detach those

things from my way of thinking

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from my being totally in order for

me to be able to rebuild myself.

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, if you take the analogy of, uh, a

potter, a person that does pottery.

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When they mess up on a particular,

uh, piece that they're working

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on, they'll, they'll tear it down.

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They'll tear it down and rebuild

it to shape it and mold it

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to where they want it to be.

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And so that's what I

had to do with myself.

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I had to allow myself to be torn

down, stripped of who I was.

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and say the old name Big

Frank and become Frank.

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And in order for me to do that, I had to

just detach myself from all my ways of

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thinking, the people that I dealt with,

the things that I did, the places I went,

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the books I read, the TV shows I watched,

the music I listened to, all those things

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had to be just changed and renewed.

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Now, some things I held on to, I

will tell you that I still like jazz.

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I love my jazz music.

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, I still like some old R& B stuff, but

I'm real particular about that as well.

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, and I knew once I started that process,

it just became a continual thing

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with me where I no longer desired

to do the things that I'd done as

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a, as, , prior to my incarceration.

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Those things did not, , entertain

me anymore or excite me anymore

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because I found a new way of living

that was more profitable for me.

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Okay, that's pretty good.

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So you said you had to strength.

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I like how you went

from big Frank to Frank.

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because those sort of nicknames kind of

kind of dictate behavior a lot, right?

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That's correct.

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That's correct.

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As Big Frank, I was more of the,

uh, the mean, um, bully, uh,

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intimidator type of individual.

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I remember in high school, a young

man used to tell me in high school,

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like, you could smile sometimes.

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And my persona, Was just that it wasn't

a whole lot for me to smile about

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because I was just trying to intimidate

you growing up and say at 17 was she

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she mentioned that to me and that stuck

with me as I grew into this young lady

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to tell me that because this is what

she's seen and I wasn't like I wasn't

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that approachable person that I really

wanted to be though I had that about her.

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Thought in my mind that I

wonder why people didn't

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approach me in a certain way.

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Well, this is what I was given

up that I really didn't want

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to be approached by people just

by the persona that I gave off.

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So you said, , your name kind of signified

that, um, you wanted to be intimidating.

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So why did, do you know why you

were wanting to be intimidated?

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Uh, yeah, I could say yes

because as a, as a younger man,

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I was intimidated by people.

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And so as I grew up and, my

body stopped filling out, I

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started maturing physically.

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, and I got some size on me.

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Well, now I can be the intimidated

cause I was intimidated.

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And most, I would say most.

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Men or women who grow up and become

like that is because of what happened to

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them in their childhood, in their past.

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And now they're saying, no longer

will I be the one being intimidated.

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I'll be the intimidated.

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Because, you know, you don't

want to feel that way anymore.

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So now you want to do it, not kind.

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You don't think constantly like I

don't want nobody else to feel how I

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felt growing up, but you just do it.

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And so that became a part of who

I was and, growing up in my day.

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Uh, yeah, you wanted to be a man.

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You walk in the room and everybody

just kind of look at you and say,

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yeah, you know, you show that strength.

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So that's just who I, who I had become.

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Okay, that makes sense.

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So we kind of, we, we get

dealt that hand sometimes.

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And so we start dealing it

out to others unknowingly.

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When did you consciously

start realizing that it was

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something you were dealing with?

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unconsciously doing?

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Was it when that young lady told you that?

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She kind of gave me some awareness of it.

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So I was around 16 or 17.

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Then she gave me an awareness of it.

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But though I kept going living that way,

but it was just over a course of time.

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I noticed that people, gave

me that type of respect.

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Uh, but that's where the

name Big Frank came in.

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And so that respect came

along with my actions.

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And so I guess that's how I gained

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other things that I had accomplished.

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Because I intimidated people.

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So that's what, happened.

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Yeah, I like how you mentioned respect

because everybody wants to be respected

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and that's just how you got that respect.

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So I can see how that can be easily done.

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I'm sure many people, want

that sort of respect.

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Not necessarily in that way, everyone

deserves respect is we should

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actually be giving more respect.

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So now that you're not.

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Being big Frank, do you

get respect still as Frank?

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Sure.

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I get respect now because

of how I carry myself.

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I get that respect now because, the

person I have become over a course

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of time, people have seen me, And the

words that come forth from my mouth.

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That's how I live my life.

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Now.

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I just don't speak the words and not

walk it, but I walk the walk that I talk.

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And so the respect comes out of that,

you know, how the integrity that I have,

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, people just have come to know me now

at this age and over the last 26 years

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that I was incarcerated of how I carried

myself and how I dealt with individuals.

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It wasn't a more of a, thing of trying to

intimidate them, even though I was in the

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correctional system and you would think in

prison you had to be, uh, disintimidated.

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I'm used for lack of words.

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My swag that I had as a, as an

individual prior to my incarceration,

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the swag was still there.

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I just use it in a different way.

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Right, right.

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So when we choose the right way to

get the necessary things, we can

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still get gratification from it.

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We can still feel good about it.

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Am I understanding this right?

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Because you still, you've got the

respect that you were wanting in the

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first place, but you got it with.

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Being a man of character, being a man

of character, being a man of God.

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, and if I may allude to this, uh, again,

to Apostle Paul, prior to his conversion

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on the Masters Road with Christ, he lived

a certain way because this is how he was.

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Taught under the Sanhedrin.

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He was taught to be this

particular individual.

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He thought what he was doing was

correct, but it was not correct

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the way he was living his life.

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And so the respect he got then

was from an intimidation fact.

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You know, he was , a persecutor of

the Christians and stuff like that.

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And so that's what he got his respect for.

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But when he became, a man of God

and he was living, uh, for Christ.

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Swag is the same use, I'm say use

the same word, that swag that he had

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as the persecutor of the Christians.

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He still had it, but he was just

using it in a different way.

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'cause now he's more informed on

what he really should be doing.

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He was misinformed at one time, now

that he's been given this particular

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knowledge and he's living for Christ now.

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His way of living.

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He's still that same individual.

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He just lives a different way now.

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So when people see him, they say,

well, that's because that scripture

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said, well, that's the guy that

was persecuting the Christians.

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And they said, no, no

longer does he do that.

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This is how he lives now.

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So he gained that respect by how he

became how you start to live his life.

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And so the same way with

me, uh, understanding that.

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I lived a certain way and I carried

myself as a man, , walk upright

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with my shoulders up straight.

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I still do that.

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But now how my mission in

life is different than it

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was at that particular time.

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Okay, so you know, first he was Saul,

but then he just like you, he went

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from, he went from big Frank to Frank.

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He went, but God changed his name

and meant something else, you know?

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So he was a new person and

that's the same for you.

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But I like that you brought this

story up because Paul was persecuting

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his own people, the Christians,

because he was converted.

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So a lot of times.

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When we get into the system, we

kind of persecute our own people,

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meaning our communities, our

family and stuff like that.

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So you have a family.

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I know you have twins, right?

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You have boys.

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, I'm pretty sure, like anybody, when

we do stuff, it affects our family.

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And did that have any impact

on you , to actually change?

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It had a big impact on me.

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I have five children, three

sons and two daughters.

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Okay.

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And when I left the street and went into

the correctional system, my eldest son, he

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hit the street because now my leadership

was no longer there in his life.

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So he hit the street and he ended up doing

13 and a half years in the federal system.

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, And I believe that's because

of my absence in his life.

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He didn't have that father figure

there right in front of him.

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, my twins that you spoke on, I

only lived on the street with

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them a month of their lives.

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Uh, just by the grace of God, their

mother, , she had a, , a lot of

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influence upon their lives because

of the way she lived her life.

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My daughters, , now they're both,

, parole officers, but my absence in

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their lives was crucial because now

they don't have that father figure

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or that male figure in their lives to

show them, basically this is how a man

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should treat a woman or, cause that's

very important to women, I believe.

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And so, um, And change in my life

and me wanting to change that was

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the main thing, me wanting to change

and be who I knew I should be.

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Let me say this right quick.

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It was my aunt Sarah came to visit

me in the county jail when I first

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got incarcerated back in 96, and

she said, you need to find yourself.

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Because the man that committed

this crime, that's not you.

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And she knew me very well from a child.

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She knew me when she

said, no, that's not you.

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You need to find yourself

because that's not who you are.

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That's no, I don't know.

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00:13:39,818 --> 00:13:40,478

That's not you.

230

00:13:40,788 --> 00:13:44,028

And so when I searched scripture

and God said, let us make man and

231

00:13:44,028 --> 00:13:47,378

our likeness and our image, and

that allowed man to have dominion.

232

00:13:47,888 --> 00:13:48,708

over the world.

233

00:13:49,138 --> 00:13:52,868

Uh, that gave me understanding that

in order for me to be who God had

234

00:13:52,868 --> 00:13:56,318

chosen me to be, I need to find

out who I really and truly was.

235

00:13:56,728 --> 00:14:02,688

And for me to ever be a father, or

a husband, or a son, or uncle, or

236

00:14:02,698 --> 00:14:07,618

grandfather, or a great grandfather, I

really need to find out Who I was, and

237

00:14:07,698 --> 00:14:11,748

as I searched and started to unpeel, to

peel these layers off of me, this, this

238

00:14:11,768 --> 00:14:17,828

mess off of me, and then, then Frank

started to blossom and bloom in the world.

239

00:14:18,178 --> 00:14:21,258

Then I started to understand, this

is who I really am right here.

240

00:14:21,778 --> 00:14:25,738

I'm not this person right here who

did the drugs or who took a life.

241

00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:30,298

I'm not this person who was out here

being an intimidator or stuff like that.

242

00:14:30,678 --> 00:14:31,998

That's not who I am.

243

00:14:32,398 --> 00:14:34,618

I am a child of God.

244

00:14:36,478 --> 00:14:42,228

I can, I can be this child of God and

still carry myself in an upright and a

245

00:14:42,228 --> 00:14:46,068

strong manner as God has chose me to be.

246

00:14:46,148 --> 00:14:50,568

I'm not a weakling or anything like

that, but I had to realize who I

247

00:14:50,568 --> 00:14:55,108

really was and who I really am in

order for me to really become a man.

248

00:14:55,388 --> 00:14:56,528

See, I was a male.

249

00:14:57,348 --> 00:14:59,888

When I went into the prison

system, I was not a man.

250

00:14:59,908 --> 00:15:03,858

I was just a male by

gender only by gender.

251

00:15:04,248 --> 00:15:10,388

And I wasn't a, I had not become a man

in the sense of who I was chosen to be.

252

00:15:10,428 --> 00:15:15,168

But, , my being responsible, a man of

integrity, uh, stuff like that, that

253

00:15:15,168 --> 00:15:19,588

was not who I was when I went into

the system at 35, I was just a male.

254

00:15:20,198 --> 00:15:20,818

That was it.

255

00:15:22,278 --> 00:15:24,708

I'm glad you made that point because.

256

00:15:25,823 --> 00:15:31,453

, a lot of people don't know what a man is.

257

00:15:31,483 --> 00:15:36,973

They just have that gender and it's

a character and have an integrity,

258

00:15:37,003 --> 00:15:39,633

taking responsibility and leadership.

259

00:15:39,963 --> 00:15:44,593

And yeah, we see this a lot

within our community and.

260

00:15:45,508 --> 00:15:49,708

When you said about, you know, you

didn't have that leadership, your son,

261

00:15:50,788 --> 00:15:55,631

it's like, it is whether we like it

or not, we are leading them wherever

262

00:15:55,631 --> 00:15:57,731

we are going, wherever we are at.

263

00:15:58,161 --> 00:16:02,551

And, it's something we have to

pay attention to that kids do.

264

00:16:02,961 --> 00:16:03,901

They are watching us.

265

00:16:03,921 --> 00:16:08,361

Not necessarily what we say, but

what we do and they will follow you.

266

00:16:08,831 --> 00:16:12,661

, yes, yes, , That's

something to keep in mind.

267

00:16:12,741 --> 00:16:18,331

I really applaud you for what you've been

doing because you're in the community.

268

00:16:18,821 --> 00:16:21,671

You are a reentry recruiter.

269

00:16:21,895 --> 00:16:27,635

And how does you know what you've

been through, how does that help you

270

00:16:27,645 --> 00:16:30,935

do your job as a reentry recruiter.

271

00:16:32,365 --> 00:16:38,155

I believe it helps me because I'm,

I can relate to where they've been.

272

00:16:39,780 --> 00:16:43,550

And trying to get them to

a whole different mindset.

273

00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:47,786

I relate and I can prior to going

to prison, I used to work with men,

274

00:16:47,906 --> 00:16:52,466

uh, with young men from eight to 20

as a basketball coach in the summer.

275

00:16:52,466 --> 00:16:52,846

Right.

276

00:16:53,506 --> 00:16:57,116

And I know in order to relate to them, I

had to kind of like get down in the dirt

277

00:16:57,116 --> 00:17:01,266

with them pretty much, you know, and, uh,

Paul, you know, Paul made that statement.

278

00:17:01,276 --> 00:17:05,016

He said he becomes all things to all

men so that he may win them to Christ.

279

00:17:05,256 --> 00:17:06,596

So I got to get to their level.

280

00:17:07,626 --> 00:17:12,776

And so because I did , , this largest

over a quarter century of time in the

281

00:17:12,776 --> 00:17:18,406

system, I know where they're coming from

and being out for a couple of years now.

282

00:17:18,836 --> 00:17:21,542

I know the hurdles that, that

they're going to have to face because

283

00:17:21,542 --> 00:17:26,133

I still first face some hurdles

myself now, but now I take, I look

284

00:17:26,133 --> 00:17:30,153

at the hurdle and I said, I figure

out how do I get over this hurdle?

285

00:17:30,783 --> 00:17:34,663

Not that it's just going to be, , some

of this going to stop me because I

286

00:17:34,663 --> 00:17:38,403

ain't thinking what is stopping me

is me if I allow that to happen.

287

00:17:38,403 --> 00:17:42,003

And so when I deal with these men

and women that are coming out of the

288

00:17:42,013 --> 00:17:44,613

system, I want to relate to them.

289

00:17:44,613 --> 00:17:46,473

I want to hear, I want to

know what they're all about.

290

00:17:46,513 --> 00:17:47,733

I want to know where they want to go.

291

00:17:47,803 --> 00:17:49,163

I don't care where you've been.

292

00:17:49,353 --> 00:17:52,473

I don't care what you've

done in your past.

293

00:17:53,063 --> 00:17:56,753

I want to know what do you want to to

do, where are you trying to go, and how

294

00:17:56,753 --> 00:17:59,343

can I help you get there, and if I could.

295

00:17:59,973 --> 00:18:01,573

Uh, pour something into you.

296

00:18:01,573 --> 00:18:04,893

If I can give you something, give

something back to you that was given to

297

00:18:04,893 --> 00:18:09,163

me, that's going to help their lives,

help them to move forward in life.

298

00:18:09,613 --> 00:18:13,643

That's my goal is to, and it

really, my goal is to make them

299

00:18:13,643 --> 00:18:16,213

feel human, is to humanize.

300

00:18:16,548 --> 00:18:19,238

These men and women because,

you know, going into the system,

301

00:18:19,428 --> 00:18:20,978

you're stripped of who you are.

302

00:18:21,048 --> 00:18:23,878

You're stripped of just your name.

303

00:18:23,888 --> 00:18:26,618

You don't because you no longer

name you're now a number.

304

00:18:27,518 --> 00:18:28,968

And so I want them to feel him.

305

00:18:28,968 --> 00:18:30,258

I want them to feel love.

306

00:18:30,668 --> 00:18:31,968

But I want to understand that.

307

00:18:31,968 --> 00:18:36,088

Hey, this is not a game out here that

that that you're going to be living in.

308

00:18:36,098 --> 00:18:36,958

This is for real.

309

00:18:37,368 --> 00:18:38,298

This is a real game.

310

00:18:38,338 --> 00:18:39,228

It's not a play game.

311

00:18:39,238 --> 00:18:40,278

This is a real game.

312

00:18:40,733 --> 00:18:46,383

And if I can get them to understand that

if you learn the rules of engagement

313

00:18:46,433 --> 00:18:52,243

out here in society, you'll learn

how to be more successful at staying

314

00:18:52,243 --> 00:18:55,773

out here, then going back because

it's easy to go back into the system.

315

00:18:55,813 --> 00:18:56,683

It's real easy.

316

00:18:57,003 --> 00:18:58,333

They wait for you to come back.

317

00:18:58,783 --> 00:19:03,933

But if you can learn the rules of

engagement out here, learn how to live

318

00:19:03,993 --> 00:19:06,343

and live a life and you can be productive.

319

00:19:06,703 --> 00:19:08,793

You don't have to go back

to the streets to do it.

320

00:19:09,123 --> 00:19:10,253

You can get a job.

321

00:19:10,253 --> 00:19:11,233

You can get a career.

322

00:19:11,243 --> 00:19:12,853

You can be somebody.

323

00:19:13,523 --> 00:19:14,883

Okay, just take myself.

324

00:19:15,003 --> 00:19:18,133

I never thought I, I never knew

that I would be in the position

325

00:19:18,133 --> 00:19:20,413

that I'm in now job wise.

326

00:19:21,303 --> 00:19:26,483

I did not know that 28 years ago,

but here I am, I'm in this position.

327

00:19:26,503 --> 00:19:26,973

Why?

328

00:19:27,313 --> 00:19:30,813

Because of the changes that

have been made in my life.

329

00:19:30,883 --> 00:19:33,313

And I just want to give

back to the community.

330

00:19:33,313 --> 00:19:37,663

So as a re entry recruiter, that's

my, that's my goal is to give back.

331

00:19:38,243 --> 00:19:42,603

And to help people that's coming

out the system be able to reenter

332

00:19:42,623 --> 00:19:46,483

back into society with a smooth

transition because it ain't gonna

333

00:19:46,483 --> 00:19:48,773

be easy, but it can be smooth.

334

00:19:49,103 --> 00:19:49,793

It's not easy.

335

00:19:49,803 --> 00:19:52,743

Nothing's easy out here,

but it can be smooth.

336

00:19:53,283 --> 00:19:55,893

And that's my goal is just

to make it smooth for them.

337

00:19:55,893 --> 00:19:57,373

And that's like I said, I relate.

338

00:19:58,133 --> 00:20:00,683

To what they've been and what

they're going to be going through.

339

00:20:01,863 --> 00:20:02,503

I like that.

340

00:20:02,543 --> 00:20:10,636

, I think we need more people that touch

people that are reentering that those

341

00:20:10,636 --> 00:20:14,193

people be someone that have been there.

342

00:20:14,273 --> 00:20:16,823

So because they are more.

343

00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:23,573

Relatable and I believe in a chain,

like, not, you know, where a links,

344

00:20:23,663 --> 00:20:28,003

I should say, where 1 person does

this part of you touching right away.

345

00:20:28,003 --> 00:20:29,013

You are at the right.

346

00:20:29,213 --> 00:20:34,313

I think position and, , God

really has you there for that.

347

00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:37,603

And then we, you link

up with other people.

348

00:20:38,143 --> 00:20:41,863

That kind of pull them out even more

like you've got the first hand, you

349

00:20:41,863 --> 00:20:46,543

know, and then as you're pulling,

we have the next hand, , someone

350

00:20:46,883 --> 00:20:50,973

that's probably been out further,

, been, linking to something else.

351

00:20:51,063 --> 00:20:55,933

So, cause it, it takes, I do believe

in the old tradition, the adage of

352

00:20:55,933 --> 00:21:00,413

it takes a village to raise a child

is, not that to say the person is

353

00:21:00,413 --> 00:21:02,526

a child, Everybody needs someone.

354

00:21:02,986 --> 00:21:06,316

Anybody in any position only got

there because of someone else.

355

00:21:07,156 --> 00:21:08,466

They didn't their own.

356

00:21:08,826 --> 00:21:11,556

Um, so with them knowing that, and they.

357

00:21:12,306 --> 00:21:14,936

They have to be around the right people.

358

00:21:15,096 --> 00:21:17,916

Like you said, they

have to want to change.

359

00:21:18,206 --> 00:21:23,966

So you obviously wanted to change

, and you said, humanize them.

360

00:21:24,606 --> 00:21:31,886

And because so many come out

institutionalized, meaning that they

361

00:21:31,886 --> 00:21:34,406

did not make any decisions themselves.

362

00:21:35,316 --> 00:21:38,716

They mostly everything they were

told to do this, told to do that.

363

00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:41,546

So when they come out, they're not able.

364

00:21:41,841 --> 00:21:43,211

Am I understanding this right?

365

00:21:43,211 --> 00:21:48,391

You were you that way you weren't

able to start disciplining yourself to

366

00:21:48,391 --> 00:21:50,611

say, Oh, this is, , I need to do this.

367

00:21:50,611 --> 00:21:51,431

Let me go do this.

368

00:21:51,471 --> 00:21:54,391

, did it take a while or did

you just come out doing that?

369

00:21:54,431 --> 00:21:57,251

Knowing what , you need knowing

that you need to discipline

370

00:21:57,251 --> 00:22:01,631

yourself rather than having somebody

telling you exactly what to do.

371

00:22:01,918 --> 00:22:05,188

No, , I had started disciplining

myself, the first year I was

372

00:22:05,188 --> 00:22:09,978

incarcerated, I started doing certain

things that I knew I needed to do.

373

00:22:10,008 --> 00:22:14,758

I stopped doing certain things like

I wasn't a person that sit out and,

374

00:22:14,768 --> 00:22:19,978

um, I didn't do a lot of board games,

playing cards or stuff like that.

375

00:22:20,748 --> 00:22:23,808

No, that I had to occupy myself

with other things, reading

376

00:22:23,808 --> 00:22:25,778

or studying stuff like that.

377

00:22:25,778 --> 00:22:26,098

Right.

378

00:22:26,438 --> 00:22:31,208

Um, I knew like I wasn't going to stay, I

wasn't going to be standing up late night.

379

00:22:31,903 --> 00:22:35,373

Because that's when I got in my,

that my trouble happened late night.

380

00:22:35,653 --> 00:22:38,403

So I needed to get that out of my

system that I wouldn't just be up,,

381

00:22:38,403 --> 00:22:41,513

in the correctional system, like on

the weekends, Fridays and Saturdays,

382

00:22:41,543 --> 00:22:43,093

you can stay up to like midnight.

383

00:22:43,403 --> 00:22:44,873

No, I wasn't up to midnight.

384

00:22:44,873 --> 00:22:45,763

I'm back.

385

00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:49,283

My routine was I'm going to

lay down like nine, 10 o'clock.

386

00:22:49,313 --> 00:22:50,693

I don't need to be out here.

387

00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:53,053

Uh, for lack of words, kicking it.

388

00:22:53,843 --> 00:22:54,793

I did down the street.

389

00:22:54,803 --> 00:22:55,963

That's what got me in trouble.

390

00:22:56,813 --> 00:23:00,593

So I disciplined myself

not to do those things.

391

00:23:01,233 --> 00:23:05,233

I disciplined myself not to

given the officers a headache,

392

00:23:05,273 --> 00:23:06,523

that's not what I'm there for.

393

00:23:06,543 --> 00:23:09,143

I'm there to get myself together.

394

00:23:09,643 --> 00:23:13,673

And so once I realized that as I,

as I was going through the system,

395

00:23:14,003 --> 00:23:17,093

things actually became easier for

me because it was easy for me.

396

00:23:17,093 --> 00:23:21,543

A man told me once, he was a guy

that was dealing with the salvation.

397

00:23:21,543 --> 00:23:24,073

I mean, he used to come to visit me names.

398

00:23:24,083 --> 00:23:25,053

His first name is Tom.

399

00:23:25,913 --> 00:23:31,253

And he, uh, depicted me as that fish

that swims upstream against the curry.

400

00:23:32,083 --> 00:23:35,003

And he said, Frank, anybody

can swim with the curry.

401

00:23:35,063 --> 00:23:37,713

Anybody can do everything

that everybody else is doing.

402

00:23:38,043 --> 00:23:41,593

He said, but I see you as an individual

that you go against the grain

403

00:23:41,693 --> 00:23:43,163

from what everybody else is doing.

404

00:23:43,563 --> 00:23:45,603

And that stuck with me

to say, okay, Frank.

405

00:23:45,973 --> 00:23:49,083

He sees something good in you

because you're not doing, you're

406

00:23:49,083 --> 00:23:50,613

not part of the status quo.

407

00:23:51,663 --> 00:23:54,663

And I never really want, even

growing up, I never wanted to do

408

00:23:54,693 --> 00:23:56,173

everything everybody else did.

409

00:23:56,173 --> 00:23:57,633

I wanted to be me.

410

00:23:58,373 --> 00:24:04,243

But once I, so once I discovered who

I, who I was and who I am, it became

411

00:24:04,253 --> 00:24:08,233

much easier for me to go against the

grain of what the status quo was.

412

00:24:08,603 --> 00:24:10,643

And so I believe out here in society.

413

00:24:10,998 --> 00:24:14,478

I had to continue to go against

the grain or what everybody else

414

00:24:14,478 --> 00:24:16,588

will want to do the easy thing.

415

00:24:16,898 --> 00:24:19,348

Let me let it be hard,

but for me, it's not hard

416

00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:20,710

that's a good point.

417

00:24:20,770 --> 00:24:25,620

I like that you said it's, those

small things that you did right

418

00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:31,600

off, like, you change your routine,

what you would normally do for us.

419

00:24:32,205 --> 00:24:36,865

Stand up later because you knew bells

were the times that you got into trouble.

420

00:24:36,925 --> 00:24:40,535

So you knew not to be

out during those times.

421

00:24:40,605 --> 00:24:42,155

I'm glad you pointed that out.

422

00:24:42,195 --> 00:24:43,275

Is that what you're trying to say?

423

00:24:43,315 --> 00:24:44,315

People need to do.

424

00:24:45,155 --> 00:24:45,545

Yes.

425

00:24:45,625 --> 00:24:45,945

Yes.

426

00:24:45,955 --> 00:24:47,715

You have to change your habits.

427

00:24:48,185 --> 00:24:50,405

If your habits change, you will change.

428

00:24:51,155 --> 00:24:51,905

, that's a given.

429

00:24:52,025 --> 00:24:52,755

That's a given.

430

00:24:53,325 --> 00:24:59,105

I like that you said that because so many

people they think about it when everything

431

00:24:59,175 --> 00:25:03,785

like this whole big, big, big steps

when actually it's these little things.

432

00:25:04,655 --> 00:25:08,095

You need to do probably just

one get used to that and then

433

00:25:08,095 --> 00:25:10,695

you go to the next little habit.

434

00:25:10,725 --> 00:25:18,015

You need to change just what they

are Hebrews chapter 12 verse 1 says

435

00:25:18,045 --> 00:25:23,180

that we should lay aside all those

things that so easily beset us.

436

00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,710

Those are the small things that

you were just talking about.

437

00:25:25,710 --> 00:25:28,760

Those easy things that will

set us, that will hold us back.

438

00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:30,430

We got to lay those things aside.

439

00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:35,950

When we do that, I can guarantee

you that in the process of change,

440

00:25:36,020 --> 00:25:41,040

your change comes along a lot

easier and it sticks to you.

441

00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:42,340

It sticks to you.

442

00:25:42,350 --> 00:25:43,400

It becomes permanent.

443

00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:48,350

In you, because again, the, the

large thing everybody can see is

444

00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:52,070

those little small hidden things

that we do that nobody really see.

445

00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,620

Those are the things that

we have to get rid of.

446

00:25:55,850 --> 00:25:57,670

Thank you for pointing that out.

447

00:25:57,750 --> 00:26:01,780

Now, as we wrap this up, what

is 1 of the main things you

448

00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,310

want the listeners to know?

449

00:26:05,890 --> 00:26:11,900

To do being that you've come from out

of prison and served a number of years

450

00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:14,780

and now you're a reentry coordinator.

451

00:26:15,084 --> 00:26:17,104

One of the things I want to

say is this is something that

452

00:26:17,114 --> 00:26:18,834

someone gave to me that giving up.

453

00:26:19,544 --> 00:26:20,544

It's not an option.

454

00:26:22,034 --> 00:26:22,954

It's not an option.

455

00:26:23,214 --> 00:26:27,064

I cannot give up what I'm trying

to do in my life because that's

456

00:26:27,064 --> 00:26:28,244

only going to set me back.

457

00:26:29,314 --> 00:26:33,454

And I believe that if the audience

would just take the time to learn

458

00:26:33,484 --> 00:26:39,374

themselves and not what somebody has

placed upon them, they will become

459

00:26:39,374 --> 00:26:41,584

that person that they need to become.

460

00:26:42,194 --> 00:26:43,214

Learn yourself.

461

00:26:44,034 --> 00:26:45,654

It's okay to say no.

462

00:26:46,849 --> 00:26:52,109

It's okay to detach yourself from family

or friends that may pull you down.

463

00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:52,889

It's okay.

464

00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:57,389

Sometimes it's okay to be

alone in this, in this world.

465

00:26:57,739 --> 00:26:58,479

It's okay.

466

00:26:58,789 --> 00:27:03,329

Because when you're alone, you learn

more about yourself and just live life.

467

00:27:03,339 --> 00:27:04,069

Don't exist.

468

00:27:04,624 --> 00:27:05,584

live life.

469

00:27:06,094 --> 00:27:10,224

And when you live, you begin to live

life to find out that it's good.

470

00:27:10,224 --> 00:27:11,257

It's good.

471

00:27:11,257 --> 00:27:12,664

It's pleasurable.

472

00:27:13,144 --> 00:27:17,164

And this is what God had intended for

us to do to live and not just exist.

473

00:27:17,524 --> 00:27:21,354

So I go back to what I said,

giving up is not an option.

474

00:27:22,584 --> 00:27:23,404

I like that.

475

00:27:23,464 --> 00:27:25,184

Well, thank you so much, Frank.

476

00:27:25,274 --> 00:27:29,474

I really enjoyed having you on the

show can we give out your information

477

00:27:29,514 --> 00:27:32,674

for people to contact you for

family members who may be having.

478

00:27:33,694 --> 00:27:38,034

out pretty soon because you

aren't a reentry coordinator.

479

00:27:39,224 --> 00:27:40,894

Please, please give my information.

480

00:27:40,904 --> 00:27:42,854

It would be the contact

information would be F.

481

00:27:44,159 --> 00:27:44,949

Penninger P.

482

00:27:44,989 --> 00:27:45,199

E.

483

00:27:45,219 --> 00:27:45,519

N.

484

00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:45,809

I.

485

00:27:45,819 --> 00:27:46,119

G.

486

00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:46,389

A.

487

00:27:46,449 --> 00:27:46,829

R.

488

00:27:47,859 --> 00:27:51,249

at the community warehouse dot org.

489

00:27:52,369 --> 00:27:54,769

And I'll give him my phone

number if that's okay.

490

00:27:54,859 --> 00:27:55,259

Sure.?

491

00:27:56,489 --> 00:28:00,639

4 1 4 5 3 1 4 5 0 1.

492

00:28:01,249 --> 00:28:03,579

. Well, that's all today, folks.

493

00:28:03,609 --> 00:28:04,629

Thank you for listening.

494

00:28:04,629 --> 00:28:08,699

Remember if you have loved ones

who are incarcerated, who are

495

00:28:08,699 --> 00:28:13,169

about to get out, please contact

Frank here in the Milwaukee area.

496

00:28:13,449 --> 00:28:16,969

If you're not in the Milwaukee area,

you can possibly still contact him

497

00:28:16,969 --> 00:28:18,799

and he can, give you some pointers.

498

00:28:19,144 --> 00:28:21,904

Thank you so much, Frank,

for coming on the show.

499

00:28:22,044 --> 00:28:23,434

I really enjoyed you

500

00:28:23,704 --> 00:28:25,044

Thank you, miss J?, for having me.

501

00:28:25,744 --> 00:28:26,474

You're welcome.

502

00:28:26,604 --> 00:28:30,624

Thank you for listening and have

a week filled with blessings.

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