In this episode of Lessons from Your Hairstylist, Sarah breaks down one of the most common color frustrations: “Why does my hair keep turning red/orange?” With a simple, no-jargon explanation, she walks through natural undertones, what “gray” hair really is, and the real differences between permanent, demi-permanent, and semi-permanent color so you can keep brass at bay and love your shade longer.

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Well, hello and welcome to the Lessons From Your Hair Stylist podcast. I'm your host and hairstylist friend, Sarah Cruz. So today I was in the salon again and I had a client come in and she was just getting her gray covered and she had not seen me before. I had never seen this lady. She had been going elsewhere and she did have the complaint though that no matter what she did, she felt like her hair always looked

red or orange. And she said, absolutely do not want any red or orange. So she's a brunette. And I hear this all the time. And I thought this would be a great episode for the podcast, because I've explained the challenge of this to so many people and how color works and why this is happening. But I thought it'd be great to bring this onto the podcast and really explain why.

So many of us are fighting this orange and this red and even this yellow if we're blondes. And what is actually going on here? Because I think a lot of times people think, OK, I go into the salon, I tell them I do not want my hair to be red or orange, and every single time I'm still dealing with this. And why are they doing this to me? It's something that we're not listening to.

really like orange and red, and we're just trying to put that into your hair. We do not put any sort of orange and red into your hair when covering the gray, unless of course you want orange or red. But it's a process that happens just by default, because anyone who has brown or darker hair at all is going to have red or orange undertones.

That is just the natural makeup of the color of the hair. So let me just explain a little bit about, first of all, why there is red and orange already in your hair and how that's coming through and why it's so hard to fight it. So when you're thinking about hair color and you're thinking of dark to light, think about the lightest blonde that you can imagine. Think about the darkest dark, like it's just black.

So if you were gonna number those hair colors, you would have one as being black. This would be like the blackest black hair. And then if you numbered that all the way up to 10, imagine that 10 is like the lightest blonde on this white. So everything in between that has a number. A lot of brunettes that are fighting this constant brassiness, a lot of people call it brassiness, a lot of brunettes who are fighting this are in that

three, four, five, six range of hair color. And the reason why that is is because the natural undertone, part of the color that is, that's making up that brunette hair color or that dark brown hair color, you've got to have warmth in order to create that color. So the natural undertone that's happening in anyone's hair that is dark brown or brunette,

is you're gonna have orange as an undertone or some redness as an undertone. The darker you are, you'll be more towards the red zone. The lighter you are, you're gonna be more towards the orange and then even in dark blondes, you're gonna wind up having more of like the orange and yellow tones. So this is why blondes are always fighting with yellowing and why they can't seem to maintain that icy white that they're looking for. So that's just a little bit about

what is naturally going on in the hair, first of all. So we're not even talking about gray. We're just talking about the foundation that we're working with when we're talking about the color of the hair and what it is that we're trying to achieve when we're coloring gray hair. So for those who are starting to see gray hair now, they may choose to get those grays covered.

And this is what this client was in to see me for. One other thing that I want to address before we even get into that is I want to explain to you what gray hair actually is. So there is really no such thing as a gray hair. You wouldn't take one hair and say that's gray. What you're seeing when you see gray hair is you're seeing some hair.

that has lost all pigment, and so it's white, next to hair that has not lost its pigment. And it's the natural color So in someone who has dark black hair or dark brown hair, black hair, and some of their hair with age is starting to lose all of its pigment, you're going to see a salt and pepper look.

people would refer to as like salt and pepper, but it's gray because the dark and the light together make a gray look overall. So that's actually what gray hair is. And when you're trying to cover your grays, and I put grays in quotation marks because actually you're trying to cover the hairs that have lost all their pigment. But when you're trying to cover those, the color you're using is going on the other hairs too.

So it's having a different effect on the hairs that haven't lost their pigment as it is with the white hair that has lost all its pigment. If you were to just pick out every single white hair individually and color it with a permanent color, you wouldn't get any warmth. You wouldn't get that undertone exposed over time

you would only see a neutral color because there is no warmth or undertone in that white hair. But it would be impossible to go through and pick out every white hair. So of course, the color goes on all of the hair. And so what happens is when you use permanent color, it actually lifts some of the natural pigment out of the dark hair.

And what happens when that takes place is that it exposes that natural undertone. Now, with color, the first part of the process is that it's lifting. there's nothing to lift out of the white hair. So that stays unchanged. But the lifting process, when it opens up that top layer cuticle of the hair, the lifting process is causing some of that

natural pigment to come out. And then the coloring part happens on the second part of the processing time when you're getting your hair colored. Then the color is driven into those hairs covering the white hair and counteracting the orange tone that happens in the lifting process of the darker hair. So then you don't see the orange because the hair has been freshly colored.

and so you're good to go. But what happens is inevitably the color will start to fade off. And I want to address that there is a misconception about permanent color versus demi-permanent color and semi-permanent color. People think that permanent color means that it stays longer, that the color just stays and it doesn't go away.

alters your natural pigment. And it leaves behind artificial pigment

So when we're thinking of an individual hair, you've got three layers. You've got the outer layer, which is the cuticle layer.

then you have the second layer, which is the cortex, and sometimes you'll have a inner layer, but not always. But

you've got to lift that top cuticle layer

with a developer or an oxidizing agent before you can get the color into the cortex part where the color would be. In the gray hair, there's no color inside of the cortex. You've got to get the color into that area in order to give the hair some color. What happens is permanent color, it

will lift off that cuticle from the hair that actually has pigment still in it, expose the undertone, and then cover over that undertone with the tone, which is what the color is. That is counteracting that orange undertone with whatever it is that you're putting on it. But over time, permanent color actually slides off and fades away, just like demi-permanent, just like semi-permanent.

A lot of people think that the difference between permanent, semi-permanent, and demi-permanent color is that permanent color lasts longer. But in reality, what happens is it fades off just like the other colors. But because it has lifted natural pigment out first and exposed an undertone, you're always going to have that line of demarcation. You're always going to see that the hair has been altered.

Whereas with demi-permanent and semi-permanent color, those colors don't lift before they deposit the color. They simply deposit. So it's not strong enough to get into the cortex to color the hair that's actually white. It isn't strong enough to do that. It really only puts the color over that top.

over that top layer. So it masks it, and it can blend it, but it can't color it completely like a permanent color can. And the thing that happens with permanent color is once it has lifted that out and exposed that undertone, when the tone of the permanent color goes away, you still always have that natural undertone. So this is what's happening when people get their hair colored.

One of the things that you can do is you can start less aggressively when you're starting to see those white hairs pop through and you don't, for whatever reason it bothers you and you want to get it covered, you can start with a demi-permanent color. So a demi-permanent color is not going to be as strong as a permanent color enough to really lift out that cuticle, but it will help to blend that white hair in with the other hair.

So it might just appear that it's lighter. It's almost like it's going to stain it more so than it's going to really get in there and cover it. You could start with something like that because it won't disturb the other hair that still has pigment in it. So you're not going to lift out any of that natural pigment and expose an undertone. So when the color does slide off, you're just left with the same thing you had before, and you don't have any undertone of

orange or red exposed.

So the process with permanent color is pretty simple. The cuticle is lifted. That outer layer is lifted. And the color formula has an alkalizer in it. So you've got your color, and then you've got what we call the developer. And that's the oxidizing agent, so hydrogen peroxide. The color itself has an alkalizer, like an ammonia. It swells the hair.

and it opens up the cuticle. The developer that is added to the color, which is the hydrogen peroxide, enters the cortex. So that's that second layer. And it oxidizes the melanin in there, and it breaks it down.

This is the part where it's exposing that natural undertone. This is where you're going to see the reds and all of the warmth and the brassiness that you don't like if you're a brunette.

What happens then is artificial color molecules are formed at that point.

So the tube of hair color itself actually just contains these small colorless dye precursors. So there's no like actual color there. The developer has to actually do its job in order for that to happen. So once the peroxide does get in there and do its job, those molecules link together inside of the cortex and form a larger permanent pigment. And so those bigger pigment molecules will get trapped in the cortex

And this is why the result is called permanent, because they're trapped in there and it's coloring everything. But eventually that tone, again, will fade off, and then you're left again with that warm undertone.

So there's that misconception about hair color actually being permanent, and then you have demi-permanent and semi-permanent, and people think that semi-permanent and demi-permanent don't last as long. It's not that they're not lasting as long. It's just that what they're leaving behind, it shows no evidence of it ever having been there.

Once that cuticle, that top layer cuticle has been opened, it's weaker in a way. It's always going to be prone to opening and allowing tone to slide off. So this is why a lot of times people come back and get what we call toners, glosses, glazes, whatever you've heard.

probably a bunch of terms, but basically a toner is a demi-permanent or a semi-permanent color that is put on the hair to just deposit color once again to refresh the tone that was more wanted rather than living with the warm tones. So sometimes you can get a toner in between your permanent hair color appointments to maintain the tone that you're looking for.

It's just a little bit of a science lesson. I wanted to explain it. I like to explain it to my clients so that they understand what's going on. And many times what's happening to make the problem even worse in a salon is it has to do with the formulation. So the stylist may be formulating the color too light, so maybe selecting a hair color.

that is a bit too light, then adding a developer to it that may be a bit too strong. So then you're lifting out a great deal of natural pigment, exposing even more of that warmth and that redness that you don't want to see. So what I like to do when someone starts to first see those white hairs popping through and they want to start covering it, I go with the least aggressive.

Option that I can first just to blend those grays just to stain them at first if we can so they don't show up so much so that when that color does slide off you're not getting that warmth Left behind so you're not going to always be dealing with that So I start there and once you know somebody just can't take it anymore, and they just really want those covered for sure That's when I formulate

with a very low volume of developer.

So volume just means how much oxygen the peroxide is releasing. And

that just determines how much the pigment is going to lift out of the hair, how much of that is going to lift out. So a lower volume of developer means that there's going to be less lift before color deposit. But the less lift, the weaker the formula is going to be. And the gray may not be, or the white hair may not completely get pigmented.

So many stylists will go with a higher volume of developer, most generally a 20 is recommended with permanent hair color, because you almost need to have that much pigment lifted out before you can drive color in and cover and give that hair enough color. So.

If you're not getting enough lift first, then the color can't get into the white hair enough to thoroughly give it pigment, I guess, if that makes sense. But when you've got that much lift on the hair that still has pigment, you're exposing brighter orange, the brighter red, the brighter, and you're getting more of that undertone exposed. So I like to start really at

conservatively, I guess, when it comes to developer, and I start really low. I will use a permanent color, but I'll use a very low volume of developer to start. And if that is getting the job done, I never increase it. I never go up in developer, because there's no reason to lift out more pigment than is needed in order to get the job done and cover those white hairs. I think going conservatively, using a

using a 10 volume and developer, that has worked for me. I'm not telling you to go into your stylist and tell her how to formulate her color or him how to formulate his color, but for me, I have found that that is a good compromise to keep that warmth and that brassiness at bay. So.

maybe just start more conservatively. If you're starting to see those white hairs and you don't like it, start with something small and then you can always move up. just talk to your stylist

And feel free to share what I have said as well. I don't like to tell anybody how to do their job, of course, but this has worked for me and it's worked for my clients pretty well. So I wanted to just bring this onto the podcast to help you to understand what can be going on if you're seeing more warmth than you would like with your hair color. I thought that'd be a good little lesson, little lesson from your hairstylist today.

I hope that you got something out of that, and maybe that was a little light bulb moment for you. I do want to just really quickly mention again

that we do something exciting coming on the horizon for hair and makeup artists out there if you're listening and you're running a business, you're out there as a freelancer, or you're interested in starting an agency or a team yourself. We're going to be starting to share our entire back end and how we do things, our process, which has been tried and true. We're working on our first tier right now,

That one's going to consist of all of our forms, our contracts, and our email sequences that we send out. Those will be downloadable digital products that you can buy, either a la carte or we'll be bundling those up. So that is coming on the horizon. I want to mention that because I'm so excited about the creation of these assets because

You know, I wish when I had started my on-site hair and makeup company for weddings and special events that somebody would have handed me this stuff. I really wish that there had been, I know that there have been some things out there and I looked into those, but I couldn't ever find that I could truly plug those into my business. So that's what we're working to do is to make it really easy for you to just plug and play and take what we have, use it yourself, protect yourself from

all the hiccups that can come up. Protect yourself from losing time and money and you know, not have to reinvent the wheel because we already did that. I spent years creating this framework and it wasn't just me. was two other really incredible, amazing women who have been working alongside me for the last few years and it has been a long road but we've got a really solid system and we've got people coming to us now.

You know asking us for advice. We have other hair and makeup artists that are bending our ear and asking us You know what about this? What about this and and and and I just realized you know we're sitting on on some real value here So we're excited to be able to get to share that that's all going to be coming soon, but Listen, thank you so much for joining again on the podcast this week. It's been great to be here with you share this episode with

someone that you think might enjoy it and I would love if you would go on and leave a rating or a review that would help me tremendously that will push the podcast out there so more people can hear it and As always thank you again I will be seeing you next week when I'm on for another episode of the lessons from your hairstylist podcast. Have a good one