Ned Heavenrich is a local musician, known for his work as a founding member of The Brownsmead Flats. On this warm summer day, Ned dropped by the studio to chat about his childhood outside Detroit, making his way across the county as a hitchhiker, deciding to become a commercial fisherman, and eventually making his way to the Oregon Coast where he wrote and produced a musical that told the whole story.

Topics that you will hear:

• Ned's time as a KMUN radio DJ.
• The secrets to aging without cognitive decline.
• Watching friends leave for the Vietnam war.
• The best way to eat albacore tuna.
• New technology for pooping on-the-go.

Ned was stupendous guest and I hope you enjoy the show.

Music Credits:

• Cash Machine, FLYIN.
• #letmebeyourparachute, Amaroo.
• Comin' Up, Heyson.
• Mongolian Barbecue, Lennon Hutton.
• Still Fly, Revel Day.

Keywords: Cape Disappointment State Park; KMUN 91.9; Shure microphones; James Cotton; Paul Butterfield; Harmonica; Hohner Marine Band harp; education; Sudoku; Shure; Muddy Waters; Paul Butterfield; La Croix; Motown; Vietnam War; commercial fishing; bioluminescence; fungi; Richard Nixon; Donald Trump; pentagon papers; Daniel Ellsberg; Julian Assange; nuts; caffeine; coffee; black tea; Cross-country skiing; Michigan; Upper Peninsula; hiking; hitchhiking; river rafting; off-grid camping; outdoor adventures; chemical toilet; rocket box; llama-packing; donkey-hikes; Goat Rocks wilderness; Pacific Northwest wildflowers; public schools; hip replacement; arthritis.

Links:

• Patreon
• Website
• Facebook
• Instagram 
• Twitter
• Episode catalogue
• Business: ramblebytheriver@gmail.com

Brownsmead Flats Link:

• Facebook

Copyright 2022 Ramble by the River LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

New Ned H. intro

There we go. Hello, and welcome to another exciting episode of Ramble by the River. I'm your host on the coast who ain't scared of? No ghost. Jeff Nesbitt. It is Saturday, August 26th, the year of our Lord 2022.

And it's a blast. I've done it a few times. Now I've done a few different versions of it, and this is the hard one. It takes two days. You gotta sleep on the ground if at all. And it's, it's just a blast.

Shout out to my hood deco team, the north jetty brew crew. and thank you to north jetty brewery in long beach, Washington or Seaview Washington, probably Seaview. I don't know it's right there on the line somewhere, but it's a great place.

I'm excited to go do something hard. I like doing hard stuff. it really makes you wonder though, like what is it about running and triathlons or really any of the endurance sports? What is it about those sports that people like, why do, why do they attract people so much? Is it a certain type of people?

Cause there are definitely people who think no way, I'm not ever doing something like that. And if, if you even suggest it, they act like you're crazy. So I don't know what the difference. It's not whether or not they're healthy enough to do it or fit enough to do it. That does play a role. But I know lots of very fit people who do not like to do endurance sports.

I've been training for a while. It's been months now since I signed up. So I'm ready for it to just be done and get it out of the way. Plus the best part of any kind of a running endeavor for me is right after when you got the endorphin rush, everybody's happy. You don't really care if you won or not. I usually didn.

It's just a good feeling. Yeah. That's a nice drive back home. It's that's that post race? Euphoria. I love it. Always have, what am I doing now? I don't know, but yeah, running. it's weird when you get out there, you're in the middle of nowhere. It's dark still, and there's just headlamps everywhere.

What would you think like, well, how would you explain that strange occurrence? Think about if we saw, if we were observing some animals in the Wild and then all of a sudden they just lined up and started racing. It'd be weird. It'd be weird in, in places that they normally wouldn't even go. You see those extreme races that like go through the desert.

Take. To the limit

don't need them, man. It would be really hard to be deaf because I have hearing issues. I get congestion, I would call it in my left ear. It feels very tight in with my nose. I'll plug my nose sometimes and try to pop my ears and it doesn't usually work. Hey, that kind of did though. I can feel my voice, the normal way.

I hate the way my voice sounds and feels when it's like way caught up in my throat. But then if I force it out too much, then I get a lot of popping, you know, I gotta find a nice, healthy, medium. I think that right there is, is like the very best that I could do. Yeah, right there. I think that'll sound fantastic.

I think I like it better without the headphones. I wonder if it sounds better, it makes me less stressed. I don't feel like everybody is paying attention to what I'm doing right now. I just feel like I'm sitting in my shed, recording myself, talking, which is what it, which is exactly what I'm doing. That's how I should feel when I have the headphones on.

I, for some reason, feel like everybody's like listening, which you're not yet, but now you are, but you weren't. When I recorded this, which is to me, is the present. But to you is the past. So I have to put my mind into the future to understand the present. Obviously, if you wanna connect with Ramble by the River on social media, you can find us at RamblebytheRiver on Facebook.

RamblebytheRiver gmail.com admin one that's admin ad M I N. The number one at RamblebytheRiver.com dot com admin one RamblebytheRiver.com dot com.

Now you've probably heard me talk about this before, but I'm gonna mention it again because I have to, you're probably listening to this on a. Service like apple podcast or Spotify, but did you know there's actually a place where you can find behind the scenes content, get access to merch? Not a lot of merch yet.

Just a t-shirt, but there will be more that shit's expensive. And not only that you get access to exclusive episodes of Ramble by the River. and in, and in addition to that, and in addition to those things, you get access to Ramble on the road, the companion podcast to RamblebytheRiver, that's the show where I get a little bit more personal, talk about my hopes and dreams, fears, and sorrows.

Put the link at the top of the page on every page of the whole website. So it should always just say subscribe at the top click that it'll take you right to Patreon. It'll allow you to subscribe, blah, and that will allow you to select a subscription tier. We only have two options basic and premium. I highly recommend the premium because you have access to everything, but the basic is pretty good too.

it has been such a crazy busy week for me and my family. We're getting ready to go back to school. Been doing some podcasts, been working like crazy. Summer's almost coming to a close. So my workable day is for the outdoor stuff is getting pretty low. By the time October's over. You can pretty much bet if you're doing outdoor work, you're miserable.

So I'm trying to get everything done while I've got a chance. And that makes for some long days, Life is good. Life is good. I like being busy. I think it's, it's better. That way. I've been staying happy, staying healthy, getting ready for this race has been keeping me accountable, keeping me from just eating a ton of junk food and never working out.

I don't want anyone to talk to me. I just wanna be able to run and I'm like a ghost. I come and I go, okay, what else do we got?

That was my teammate making plans, making plans told 'em I'm gonna bring the cooler. I have a big, nice cooler fill that thing with ice. Few water bottles, water bottle. It should be a good time. Gotta stay hydrated. And also you gotta keep your electrolytes at the right levels. Not too much, but not too little.

I always find it so strange when there's random movements out here, like something falls off a shelf or chord unravels because I'm not out here all that often. And what are the chances that, that happens when I'm out here? Like, I don't know. Does that mean it's happening at that rate when I'm not out here too?

They're fantastic. If you recognize this little number, beer, beer, beer, beer. Let's go get a for George beer, beer, beer, beer, beer for George for George beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, all that shit. You know, let's go get a four charged beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, four charged for charged beer.

Ned is a very interesting man. He hitchhiked across the country, decided to write a musical about it and has produced that musical several times. he's a father, he's a husband and he is a talented, conversationalist without further ado.

What am I gonna call him without further ado, please give it up for the adventurous and charismatic Ned Heavenrich.

Ned Heavenrich

Jeff Nesbitt: there was a lot of joy in that crowd.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, no, it was, yeah. It's a lovely place to play. And from a, you, someone who plays music there, the, the amphitheater, the sound comes back so well, does it?

It's like having your own monitor system. That's cool. And, uh, yeah. You know, often we've played in, uh, Places where,

um, there's a delay. And so it's really hard when that music is coming back at you a half second after you've. Oh yeah, yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: I don't know how you can even do that.

Ned Heavenrich: How can you even play it's it's you just have to focus, you know, I

Jeff Nesbitt: have tried to, to record just talking a podcast on, uh, this program that there's a small delay Uhhuh.

Ned Heavenrich: The clamp piece there. Yeah, that's really cool. I did that on

Jeff Nesbitt: accident. I was trying to think of a conservative, you know, way to save space with.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. I only have a couple of those, so it'd be hard to do that, but I like what you did there.

Jeff Nesbitt: I'm gonna, I'm just gonna wear these while we talk for a minute while just so I can dial 'em in, feel free to throw those on.

Sure. You get used

Ned Heavenrich: to 'em. Yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: but yeah, no, I I'm trying to renovate a little bit so I can get this place video ready. Cuz I started filming podcast last week. Oh my gosh. So I'm gonna try to get 'em on YouTube, it's so much work to do all that stuff.

Ned Heavenrich: Oh absolutely. You need an

Ned Heavenrich: N the only one. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. What, what did you, uh, and if you don't mind just jumping right into it. Yeah. Tell, tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah, feel free to adjust the mic. However you need to, I'm not sure where you want it. So, so have it about, six, six inches or so away from your face. Okay. I've got it dialed into where you it's a little bit more sensitive. Uh, so you don't have to get super close. Yeah. Just in case you wanna play the guitar.

That's that's nice and clear. It's pretty sharp. Yeah. I like these mics. They're they're surprisingly good for the price. I've experimented a little bit with the USB mics. Like the kind you plug into a computer mm-hmm they're, uh, they're almost too precise. Like they pick up every little rust, every sound of the room.

These things seem to really zero

Ned Heavenrich: in. Are these a large diaphragm? I don't know. Mm-hmm .

Jeff Nesbitt: they don't look that large. the, uh, the sure mic. That's like the classic that they record, like they, the 57 58 mm-hmm this is like the little brother of these. Oh. they just came out with these in the last couple years.

Um, anyway, you were gonna tell me about KMU N

Ned Heavenrich: yeah. Well, let's see. Um, I think about a year or a year and a half after it started up. So I think that was 83. I, uh, ended up sharing a program. Uh, I think for almost 10 years, yeah, it was called rhythm bound and it was sort of, you know, soul and blues and stuff like that.

Like, uh, every, every other Friday I shared it with a guy named Bob Berg and, um, yeah, it was a lot of fun. And then,

Jeff Nesbitt: um, was that a particular era or it just, anything in that genre?

And, uh, so I was really, um, entranced with, uh, the Chicago blues. Yeah. And so, um, that was kind of at a lot of, uh, muddy waters and, uh, James Cotton and, um, old style bluesman.

Jeff Nesbitt: Were those, some of the inspirations for you to become a musician?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Uh, yeah, I, I didn't really start. I, I wasn't musical, uh, at an early age.

Jeff Nesbitt: And when did you finally start becoming musical?

Jeff Nesbitt: ride.

You start with just the, the standard sea harp.

Ned Heavenrich: Absolutely. The Marine band sea. That's the one I've

Jeff Nesbitt: got. Yeah. Good. I, I pretty much did the exact same thing mm-hmm bought. Well, my mom bought me a harmonica when I was maybe 18. I think. Going off into the world. She expected me to do the same thing. Kind of just carry it with me and play it.

When I was riding on trains, you know, you know, catching rides with strangers, that kind of thing. You were hopping, freak trains. I wasn't, but I think that's what she must have envisioned cause that's what I envisioned when I got it. And I ended up not using it for 10 years or so, but, and it was the beginner's horn horn, whatever that brown

Ned Heavenrich: is.

Mm-hmm the Horner that, that was all there

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. That's, that's, that's really a way, a great way to, you know, to, to, to pick up some melodies and

Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, it looks like fun. What you're doing up there with the, uh, Brownsmead Flats,

And then, um,

Jeff Nesbitt: so you need him to just be able to keep the title basically is what

Ned Heavenrich: yeah. Yeah, yeah. he's like the best in, uh, musician I've ever played with he's he was probation

Jeff Nesbitt: player. Is that what you did? Yeah. Oh, he's really good. He can

I never even heard of such a thing. Yeah. Really high. Yeah. It's like, uh, I think they call 'em, uh, Chiang. Uh, if you hear, uh, Andy in music, you'll hear a really high pitched, um, like Peruvian. Yeah, yeah. Peruvian, you know, anywhere in the Andes where wherever that culture, you know, still exists. Yeah. Cool. So yeah.

I'm a sort of melody guy,

Jeff Nesbitt: harmonies are tricky. All of that's tricky. It is, it's, that's a really hard skill to master singing with other people or alone or period. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, how often do you guys practice together? You

Ned Heavenrich: know, we typically through the winter, uh, you know, fall in winter into spring, cuz most of our stuff is outdoors and um, we're not a bar band, although have you ever been no.

Although, uh, uh, some, some have been in other bands like that and Ray, especially, but, uh, so most of our stuff is dependent on weather and you know, from basically from Memorial day through, you know, into October is kind of our shtick and I really like being outside now, especially with, you know, COVID stuff.

Jeff Nesbitt: like that, but it's good. Family music. It's good. Yeah. The outdoor venue fits it very well. Yeah. You need room to do hand gestures. Like, absolutely. There's plenty of those. it's a lot of fun. I, I was I've been to enough of those shows now that I, my, my hands know 'em my, most of the hand gestures I can do. 'em

Ned Heavenrich: yeah. It's all about repetition.

Yeah, exactly. And, and of course, let's see, 1, 2, 3, 4 of us, uh, have either been worked in elementary schools or are. Connected to a teacher, uh, through marriage or whatever, and, uh, out in Napa. And, um,

Jeff Nesbitt: and your wife was a teacher for a long time, right? Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. 30 years. And we had a music program out there that every day we would start off with.

Jeff Nesbitt: just heard a thing a couple weeks ago about how, uh, how highly correlated music skills are with math skills. It's like the opposing side of the brain.

That's correct. It's right in that same area. Mm-hmm, , it's pretty.

Ned Heavenrich: It is very important. Yeah. It's yeah. It's, it's so important to exercise all parts of your brain. And as I age, you know, I find playing an instrument is really critical to that too. Mm-hmm that's very

Jeff Nesbitt: helpful. Yeah. Supposedly it battles cognitive decline.

Mm-hmm and Sudoku. Get yourself some Sudoku I'm I'm into Sudoku. Oh, perfect. You'll you'll keep

Ned Heavenrich: your, yeah. The pandemic has created lots of opportunities to explore and I love numbers. So it, so

Jeff Nesbitt: speaking of cognitive decline, before we get too off topic, uh, I tend to be very scatterbrained. So I might jump off topic.

If you got any and just have fun.

Ned Heavenrich: Okay. I I've been around a lot of add people, so that's me. Yeah. Great.

Jeff Nesbitt: All right. Cool. Thank you so much for being here, Ned. You're welcome. Uh, and thank you all for tuning in to another exciting episode of RamblebytheRiver.com. Joining me today in the studio is Ned Heavenrich.

Ned is a member of the Brownsmead Flats and he's also a member of my extended family. He's my wife. Melissa's uncle Ned. So thank you for being here, uncle Ned,

Ned Heavenrich: not, not the

Jeff Nesbitt: rich uncle, Ned, the rich, what is that from? I, I recognize

Ned Heavenrich: that. I don't know. I don't know, but it's uh, it's, it's plagued me all my uncle's

Jeff Nesbitt: life.

Yeah. Their name is, and I've been an uncle for a long

Ned Heavenrich: time. Yeah, I bet. like 50, 60 years. My niece, my oldest niece just turned 62,

Ned Heavenrich: in the family. I was, yeah. Second out of second from second youngest out of six.

Jeff Nesbitt: Wow. Six kids outside Detroit. What'd your parents

Ned Heavenrich: do?

Yeah. Uh, my dad, he had a, uh, his father had, was it his father or his grandfather? No, I think his father started like a men's wear suits and stuff like that. So in fashion. Very fashionable as you can see. Well, I see. Yeah, it runs in the family. Yeah. Right. Anyway, uh, yeah, so my dad took, he and his brother ran that business.

Jeff Nesbitt: Okay. That must have taken a while. Was she, did you, were you spread apart or you kind of a cluster?

Yeah, let's

Ned Heavenrich: see, like, uh, eight years. You know, between, uh, the, the first two twins and my, my younger brother. Okay.

Jeff Nesbitt: And then, um, so what, what, how, when, what age did you leave? So you said outside Detroit, was there a, like a suburb or something?

Ned Heavenrich: That's right. Yeah, we were, when I was two or something, we moved from the Detroit area out to it's called Birmingham, which is 20 miles.

From, from the city center of Detroit. So, so then

Jeff Nesbitt: what was after that?

Ned Heavenrich: What was after that? Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna go through your whole life. Okay. Let's see. Um,

Jeff Nesbitt: also, can I get you anything to drink or anything like that? We have, uh, bubbly water and things like that. Yeah, sure. Um, what kind would you like?

Ned Heavenrich: watermelon. Yeah, I'll bring 'em both. I think the, the grapefruit. Would appeal greatly to me.

Jeff Nesbitt: I also need to grab my notes cuz Melissa keeps making notes for me about these. And I have a really hard time actually reading them because, uh, once we're recording, I'm like I'm focused in, I'm trying to not to mess it up.

Do

Ned Heavenrich: we have to do a plug for the soda, uh, soda, water that you're gonna get? We probably should probably

Jeff Nesbitt: should. I'll be right back. I mean a minute and 40 seconds. All

Ned Heavenrich: right.

If you want a

Jeff Nesbitt: freestyle wrap while I'm gone, feel free.

Ned Heavenrich: No, I think I, I, I appreciate your direction.

you had to give it a little spiel today. Didn't you? I did. It went really well. What was it?

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, Lucy, I can never remember if it's Lucy or Rosie , uh, Amelia named her, but,

Ned Heavenrich: uh, of course , that is the

Jeff Nesbitt: craziest thing I've ever seen.

I've always heard that happens where I'm not familiar with that. Yeah. If you have a flock of hens mm-hmm and no rooster for long enough, eventually since they have a pecking order. Yeah. The top he, or whatever one with the most testosterone or androgen or whatever, the chicken yeah. Male hormone is, um, we'll start to have male traits.

There's like, oh, the roosters land eggs now it's hermaphrodite. Yeah. And we're down to two cuz uh, the rest have been killed by raccoons.

Ned Heavenrich: We know that one. That's why we don't have any. Yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: it's terrible.

But yeah, I did. I gave a weed talk to, uh, the pesticide commission tour. They come on a bus, uh, around the state every, every year they stop

Ned Heavenrich: here and I thought it was kids. No, why? I thought

Jeff Nesbitt: that professionals. Yeah. Okay. Way less fun. Actually. It was a good, it was a good group this year. It was probably like 30 people or so big bus, big, beautiful bus.

Because I wanna talk about that. Yeah. By the way that I saw Hitchin long before I knew Melissa or, or any of you guys except Eddie. Yeah. I went to go see oh, cause Eddie in it. Yeah. And um, I thought it was great. It was fantastic. I, I remember thinking like, thank God, there are still people making stuff.

Like there it's a community theater, like it's, it's special. I thought it was really cool. Um, and then years later I come to find out that you made that. So it was cool. So I do wanna talk about that, but yeah, sure. Let's work our way up to it. Okay.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. We're going chronologically. I guess if you

Jeff Nesbitt: want sure.

You can bounce. No, we can do that. Like we'll get there.

You know, the knees are not what they used to be, but, you know, like, uh, you know, uh, with Motown and stuff, it was just so much fun to dance. Uh, good beat. Yeah. Great beat. And James Brown, of course, you know, and everybody wanted to imitate him, but were, were you dancing like James Brown? Well, I was trying to do you got the feet work for that?

Like trying to do a few moves, you know, where you could, you know, spread your legs and pull 'em together and spin around and give up O yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: You gotta really have some strong abductors for

Ned Heavenrich: that. Yeah, do, I can't do it anymore, but, uh, so that was my first kinda, you know, introduction to music was just through dancing and singing, you know, singing along with the, with the musics.

It's got it's slow, you know? Uh, but I was, again, I was pretty small until like into high school. So heard

Jeff Nesbitt: play football like that too Uhhuh, because he's not small now he's a big

Ned Heavenrich: dude. Yeah. He's, you know, we both got to around six feet and, um,

Jeff Nesbitt: that's all I ever wanted. Just gotta get to that six foot part.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. That was, that was important. And I think I'm the only one in my family who got there way to go. Yeah. how many brothers do you have? I do have three and I have two twin sisters. Wow. And, um, so yeah, there was. Lot of competition. Mm-hmm ,

Jeff Nesbitt: you know, my brother eventually passed me and I've always pretended it didn't bother me.

Jeff Nesbitt: I'm the least athletic and shortest, but I also still have fun. So yeah. Anyway, sorry. I keep interrupting you. Go ahead. No,

Ned Heavenrich: no, that's right. Yeah, my dad, he was like, uh, um, a wrestler. He was like captain of the university of Michigan wrestling team.

So he was really athletic pretty. Yeah. And in that field. And then my older brother was also, uh, a, a great wrestler too. Uh, so yeah, you know, that athletics really kind of took all my time up. I didn't wanna be playing the piano. My mom played the piano. She and she sang a lot. So. Maybe had a little peripheral, but you know, mostly Christmas stuff.

That was like a big thing for her. And not so much for me.

When a song I liked came on the radio, I sat there and cherished it. Like it was a fine, like I was dining at a fine restaurant or something. Mm-hmm, like, I loved it so much. And then later I would record the radio. I would record hours of shitty songs just so I could find like, I, and then I'd pick the gems out.

You can say the S word on here. Oh, you can say whatever you want, Ned. Oh man. Whatever the F you want

Ned Heavenrich: but see, that's different than K. We couldn't do that there.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh yeah. That's the internet for you. Yeah. It's a whole brave new world, but anyway, I've always just felt like music is almost like drugs. It's it's as powerful as drugs.

Cause I don't think everybody experiences it that way, but I think a lot of people get a lot out of music, but in, in, just in different ways.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, early on when, uh, you know, I started doing the, the dance thing, I had a really good friend who was amazing dancer and you know, it was all about.

Catching the eye of the girls. And so, you know, and it's all about the hormones, right? At that age, you know, 15, 16, 17, the hormones are pretty strong and, and, and also, you know, were the beetles

Jeff Nesbitt: there yet? Oh yeah. This is beetles mania, right? What were we talking? Sixties, seventies. Eighties. For where

Ned Heavenrich: at?

Yeah, so I graduated in 68. Okay. Yeah. So I grew up, you know, in the right when they were, were they hit 63? They were, yeah. 63 I think is when they first kind of took the country. Where hard time. Yeah.

Oh,

Ned Heavenrich: I was. Wow.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Where were you at that time? Still around in Detroit.

Yeah,

Ned Heavenrich: still, still in the Birmingham area. Mm-hmm the summer of love. Yeah. I, I, I, I wanted to go to San Francisco, but

Jeff Nesbitt: oh, I bet that seemed like the coolest thing ever at that age. Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Well, I think it motivated me, you know, later on to, to head west. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Jeff Nesbitt: you're lucky you got there later. You might have got dosed by the CIA and used mind control as a mind control participant against your will.

You never know that happened, you know?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Uh, although a lot of other fun things happen there too. That's true. It might have

Jeff Nesbitt: been worth it. The risk may have been worth it. yeah. I think probably only a handful of people got CIA treatment, but a lot of other things happen that were probably quite fun.

Ned Heavenrich: Are we into the conspiracy

Ned Heavenrich: like, yeah, well, I mean the government has done a lot of things to a lot.

Jeff Nesbitt: People I'd say it's, it's on par with like the Tuskegee

Ned Heavenrich: yeah.

Stuff. There you go. That, that comes to mind,

Jeff Nesbitt: right? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm but yeah, we could let's let's that's a little bit too far out of the, out of the way right now. Let's take, come pull it back in. Good job. that's me hosting right there. Um, okay. Uh, where

Ned Heavenrich: were we? Yeah, so, uh, you were asking about music and stuff and I, oh yeah.

Originally it, you know, it was all about sports and then the dancing thing, you know, was, you know, grew up, which is like a

Jeff Nesbitt: mix of both cuz that's athletic and with the music

Very fairly stereotype.

Jeff Nesbitt: It's completely a stereotype. I don't agree with it at all, but it is a stereotype. Yeah. Yeah. People will like that. In the internet. Okay.

Ned Heavenrich: there's anytime you bash white, there's probably some, you get some, probably some, probably some truth in it, but,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, who knows? There's people who can't dance of every race.

Yeah. But I, I am one of those white people who can't dance. So I really can't say it's untrue. So it's true for some of us.

Ned Heavenrich: Well, your daughter can dance. I saw her dance the other night. She sure can. Yeah, I was. So she, she was like nonstop. She's free an hour and a half. Yeah, just Lucas too. Yeah. Lucas gentleman.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. God, I was so impressed with him. His, his parents are doing something right? Yeah. He was with the little kids just in impressive. I've never really seen that many boys, his age able to like handle little girls like that without being too rough or, or, you know, he, he was, he's a free spirit. He's a good kid.

Ned Heavenrich: So Lucas is. Your nephew.

Jeff Nesbitt: He is my nephew. Yeah, he is. Yeah. Yeah. And my grand nephew. That's right.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, that's right. And, uh, yeah, he's got his own way of doing things and it's, it's all, all beautiful. So let's see. Uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: okay, so let's, we're right.

We got up to the end of high school. Yeah. And then we need to find our way to hitch and,

Ned Heavenrich: okay. So let's see. Uh, I did go to, uh, school in Ohio for a year and a half and, um, university, uh, it was a small school, uh, Dennison university and, uh, like a couple thousand, it had a, had a, kind of a, a reputation as being a party school, which I, I don't deny.

So I was pretty sure that I was not gonna get drafted.

Jeff Nesbitt: So how does, how does that work? How does that number correspond to you getting drafted?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Anybody like up to 180 or something was probably gonna get drafted. Did they do

Jeff Nesbitt: like another, like what did the number mean? Why didn't they just draw birthdays and like, Hey, if you're on this birthday, you go,

Ned Heavenrich: that's a good question.

I thought it was like the worst move our country had made. And, uh, you know, I felt like we were being lied to, we were being manipulated and, uh, you know, I I'm, I'm just glad I missed that shit show cuz that's what it was. And I, you know, I know a lot of people who ended up, you know, going there and. Not coming back very well.

Coming back changed forever. Yeah. Yeah. Just, you know, mentally, I mean, there was just, what was the justification

Jeff Nesbitt: for it said at the time, it,

Oh yeah. And so that, you know, that gave us the, the reason to, you know, declare war and it was a bogus, it was totally bogus. So from the beginning it was bogus. I think that's called a false. okay. We'll call it a false flag.

Jeff Nesbitt: I, I feel like you were, you were right there on, on that. And I was just trying to finish it first.

Ned Heavenrich: That's that's the vernacular I'm not familiar with. So that's

Jeff Nesbitt: the conspiracy theory research right there. Um, but yeah, that's one, that's one of the ones that is very verifiable that it's like, oh yeah, that was not true. What happened? What the official report. Um, but yeah, so you were, you're managed to avoid the draft and right.

So what are you doing?

Um, you know, In school and going to the east coast, uh, out to Denver and down in New Mexico and back. And, um, I, after I, I left school, I, I went back to Detroit and, and lived in, in the inner city and, and did some work as, uh, like a substitute janitor or something. Yeah, that's what it was. And then, uh, uh, spent some time working for my dad.

Yeah, July and I was in Newport and the salmon were running and I got a job on a fishing boat. And then like for the next 10 years I was fishing. Oh,

Jeff Nesbitt: wow. I bet you met a lot of people doing that. Is that where you kind of built up a social network out here on the coast? Um,

Ned Heavenrich: I, you know, I do have some, some friends from that era, but, um, yeah, I think, uh, not real strong connections.

Jeff Nesbitt: So how'd you get from Newport to, out, to out up here in Washington, area?

Jeff Nesbitt: you fishing for all

Ned Heavenrich: these years? Uh, those that was macro and anchovies. Oh, sanding mm-hmm Persing. And then I went down to San Diego and I got on, uh, a bait boat.

Jeff Nesbitt: When you were doing Persing what's the craziest bycatch you ever had

Ned Heavenrich: the craziest bycatch? Would've been a, um, let's see, what are they called? They, I think they call them Blackfish, but they're kind of a whale. Oh, like a giant

Jeff Nesbitt: dolphin

Ned Heavenrich: thing. Uh, it was like, you know, 15, 18 feet long. It just got snagged in the net.

And, uh, wow. And I was a skiff guy, so I, I had to get out and help untangle it. It was pretty interesting. And it, it, it swam away. It was fine. Wow. Did

Jeff Nesbitt: you, was it caught up, did you have to cut the net off?

Jeff Nesbitt: will ever challenge you.

there's nobody left to remember if you're right or wrong. You'd say whatever the fuck you want. Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: But you know, some, one of the most interesting things about that fishery, uh, that I've never seen. Another one was, well, it was unionized. And, uh, um, so you never fished and, and you fished at night. Oh, wow.

And you had to fish by seeing the bait balls. So it had to be in the dark of the moon. The moon couldn't really be up. So, you know, because of the phosphorescence in the water, if a boat is, you know, we would go out to like Catalina island and, um, you couldn't fish in Catalina though. We did illegally at times, but, um, you know, you'd be looking.

Yeah. That's amazing. So if you've ever walked on a beach, like in Mexico or someplace, uh, you'll walk along the beach in the dark of the moon and there'll be that bioluminescence and you can see fish, you know, darting through and, and Corpus at night are unbelievable coming at the boat. And I don't

Jeff Nesbitt: think a lot of people know that that happens.

Yeah. The ocean like glows in spots at night. Basically it does,

Ned Heavenrich: especially when the moon isn't up, you know, and the moon's up, then

Yeah. That's that's not a wise choice.

Ned Heavenrich: Um, it's not like a really open area. Like the ocean is right. Exactly. You might run into something like a tree mm-hmm cause you're not wearing, you know, you wanna see it. You got it's gotta be dark. Right? Exactly.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I'm curious. You could probably set up a camera, uh, to film while you're like find the mushrooms ahead of time.

I would like to see that that'd be cool. Have you seen, they can put that in a pig. They made glow to dark pigs. This is like 15 years ago. They did this. They took the, I'm gonna take your word

Ned Heavenrich: for it. Yeah. They took jelly. I don't know anything

Jeff Nesbitt: about that. Jelly jeans and put 'em in a pig. Mm-hmm they grew ear on a mouse too.

Anyway, what were you saying about your, about your life? Yeah, we don't need to talk ear mouse stuff.

I love San

Jeff Nesbitt: Diego. That's one of the greatest cities in the world. It's so pretty.

Ned Heavenrich: So crowded. yeah, it's crowded because everybody knows what's good. Yeah. No, it's, it's a beautiful area, but I didn't really get to spend a lot of time there cuz I was often down off the coast of Baja or up here fishing for albacore, you know, or down below fishing, Yellowfin and skipjack and stuff.

And

Jeff Nesbitt: are those fun fisheries? They look like

Ned Heavenrich: fun. well, the bait thing is amazing because you carry first year, you have to catch your bait and you do that, uh, with a skiff and, and a small net, they call a Lum power net, which is Italian, I believe. So you have to catch it first and then you load it onto these, you know, big tanks that you're carrying on the, on the deck.

Yeah. It's a, crow's Nesbitt. You're, you know, 30, 40 feet up above the, the deck. And, uh, um, and we frequently worked with Mexicans. We would go down to Mexico and pick up a Mexican crew and cheaper labor, uh, but really knowledgeable about the ocean. Yeah, those guys were amazing. And so hardwork and, uh, so yeah, you gotta spot the fish, you know, and that's [00:38:00] like seeing a, you know, some kind of a riff in the water, you know, they call him a, Breezer a, Breezer just a little flutter breeze, you know, breeze UN Abria, that's a, a little flutter of a wind in, in Spanish.

And, and I did get to learn some Spanish, which was really great. And mostly, uh, uh, words like, uh, son of a bitch or bud, or, you know, the fisherman lingo was, was very colorful. But, uh, then you, you know, you had to get, so the fish are moving in a direction and you have to get the boat in front of 'em. You have to race around and get in front of the fish.

That's moving and they see it and they just start boiling on this bait. And then you lower, you actually have these racks that lower down into the water. So you're at water level. You're standing in the rack and you have your, you're not really secure to anything. Your feet are underneath a, a pipe that, uh, that comes up to about knee height.

So you, you slap the water with the pole, they bite this hook, you pull up and then you release the, the slack and you, the momentum of your pulling, the pole up, keeps the fish going. It spits the hook and it drops over your shoulder, onto the deck. Wow. And you would have in a really good bite, you would have hundreds of tuna, you know, dying on the deck, just slapping their tails and.

Pretty pretty amazing. They're like machines, those fish are incredible. Oh, they are so missiles. Yeah, they are. So yeah, their design is unbelievable. Yeah. They can go, you know, 30 miles an hour.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. You get ever get fresh una these

Ned Heavenrich: days. I, I do. I've got an order in for some, I'm hoping to get some tomorrow.

Ned Heavenrich: So good. Yeah. And I've learned so over the years, so many different ways of barbecuing now and, and uh, oh, you grill it.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, that's my favorite way to have it. Oh. Oh,

Ned Heavenrich: it's so good. So now I, I do like, uh, uh, olive oil and then roll 'em in Sesame seeds. Oh. And then you grill 'em or you can put 'em in a. Fry pan too. You know, they're usually a loin is usually like a three-sided triangular piece. You do it about two to two and a half minutes aside, and then the center is super rare in the outside.

You know, half inch is, is just beautiful. White. That sounds

Jeff Nesbitt: really good.

Ned Heavenrich: Oh yeah. I can't wait to get my fresh fish it's tomorrow. I think. Nice.

I I've only really ever done the kind where you, you know, drop your line in the water and wait around a lot, reel it in back and forth a bunch of times. But just being able to just da just Hitman would be

Ned Heavenrich: so much fun. Yeah, it, it, I will say I never really made a lot of money doing that, but I did enjoy it and we would be at sea.

sometimes up to 50 days.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, that sounds like shitty. I don't think that sounds fun. Nevermind. Change my

Ned Heavenrich: mind. Oh, no. I, I mean that, that was a rare thing, but, and often you would, at least you get to come into port or something, but, um, especially fishing up here all the way up in, you know, almost all the way to Alaska you'd, you'd be stopping and making BA or picking up supplies.

And I mean, you are in a special relationship with that environment and you don't know. What the fuck is going on and came back that's I came back and Richard Nixon had resigned and I was like, wow, that is the most fantastic. You were at sea when surprised Nixon resigned. that's great. I had no clue and he'd been gone for weeks, like by the time I got back.

Wow.

It's always just too simple.

Ned Heavenrich: You know, it's complex, but the guy , he said, I'm no crook, but he was a crook. He seemed to be, yeah, no, he was a liar and a, and a cheat and, and, uh, you know, he was stubborn about, you know, ma you know, keeping the Vietnam war going, and we were throwing away lives. He was also a

Jeff Nesbitt: racist.

Oh, like he's had some bad stuff on those recordings, but do you find it strange that the standards have changed so much? How much Donald Trump got away with compared to Nixon? Donald Trump could have done all of the stuff Nixon did on any random Thursday. No one would've even known it wouldn't have even made the news cycle cuz he was doing so many bad things.

Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Well there was, there was more of an emphasis on. In those times and you know, people from both parties realize that that tricky Dick had had crossed the line. Yeah.

Right. Like that guy got celebrated and now like what happened to Julian Assange? The he's like the most recent whistleblower and he is a fugitive from the law. And I don't even know what eventually happened to him, but I don't know. Things have just changed so much since that time. I don't think anyone would even care about Watergate anymore.

They would, they would, I don't know. There's there's digital crimes. That could be a lot worse that we'll never, never know about. I don't know. Are you, are you, do you get into politics?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, I mean, yeah. I do I try, I try not, it keeps me up at night, so I, I try not to, to focus too much on it, but yeah, I mean, uh, it's amazing to me that, you know, the Trump is not in jail right now.

Jeff Nesbitt: I do.

Yeah. I do find him funny sometimes, but, uh, he's, he's prob it's probably not a redeeming quality, but I do find him funny. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I, I would listen to his podcast, but, um, I don't want him to be the president of the United States. He's an entertainer. That's what, that's

Ned Heavenrich: what he's good at. He should be in jail, entertaining the cons.

What do you think

Jeff Nesbitt: he did? That was a crim crime. Really? I, I just wanna know. I don't.

He, he thinks he's royalty.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. It seems like, yeah. He needs to be an oligarch. He

Ned Heavenrich: does. Yeah. He loves, you know, Putin, right? Yeah. He said that. Yeah, for sure. He loves the guy and anybody who is an author, you know, authoritarian. And I just think he's a, you know, he's a despicable human being and he has no, you know, he should not.

Be he should be getting therapy or, uh, he, he needs to learn how to navigate the world in a way that's, you know, that's equitable to all people, not, you know, just to him. So it doesn't seem like that's gonna

Jeff Nesbitt: happen. It's too late for him.

Ned Heavenrich: I, I agree.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I agree. I think that I, I, I agree that he's probably a criminal, for sure.

He's like, he's known for not paying P like salt of the earth, blue collar workers. Like he just doesn't pay them sometimes. Right. And he's, I don't know. Also. well, the women, he got a lot of female voters after the pussy grabbing comments. So it is his whole thing confuses me. Yeah. And I, I think it must be the fact that people knew him from TV.

That's it he's like Joey from friends. He's he's he's everybody loves Donald Trump. He's a character on TV mm-hmm and they, and people have had it in their heads. Like he couldn't be actually dangerous because he's, he's, he's a cartoon character basically. And then he became the president and it could actually happen again.

Ned Heavenrich: Uh, I don't really. know much about the Republican candidates. Yeah, no, nobody I would be interested in voting for.

I'm sure of that. Yeah, because you know, he's, Trump's elevated the, the, uh, the volume so much that, you know, nobody's can run without being a racist or, uh, you know, a super Christian or, uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: that group that you just mentioned, the racist, super Christians have gained some traction recently. They have the Supreme court decisions are, are not good.

Was just collecting those TIS and just building up power. And now they've got a lot of it.

Ned Heavenrich: They do, it's kind kind of scary. Oh, it's kind of a Seesaw world. You know, it

Jeff Nesbitt: is , the pendulum tends to swing back. We hope so. Yeah. yeah. This presidency right now though, feels like it. Like we're just playing a waiting game.

I don't know. Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Well, you know, he, he. He needed to dial it down. Yeah. And you know, he, he actually is a pretty honest Joe. Uh, but you know, my son says that, you know, it's all about electing old white guys, you know, and you know, that has no interest to him or, you know, the younger voters. So it's, it is a problem.

And I, but I do think he's a decent human being. Yeah. And, and I think he's, you know, he's trying,

Jeff Nesbitt: I think so too. I think he's trying hard. He's struggling, uh, mostly with communication, which I relate to because that shit is hard. Yeah. But, um, he's, he's, I, I like him. He's a likable guy. He was Obama's buddy Obama was, you know, America's buddy.

It is like, do you remember during that time, the culture kind of embraced Joe Biden as like a golden retriever, like America's Teddy bear. He was like very lovable and. Oops.

Jeff Nesbitt: but yeah, he's, I don't know. I, I really expected Kamala Harris to be doing a lot more of the public facing interactions.

Just keep spinning them around and flipping until they feel right. That flip that right. There we go. Yeah. Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Okay. I got 'em back on. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: But yeah, we haven't seen much of her at all. No, you don't have to wear 'em Ned. There, there. No, I like it. Cuz I can hear you

Ned Heavenrich: better. Um, I got it figured out now don't worry about it.

I'll stop sitting on my mic cord. Oh yeah, that will do it. yeah. Well I, I'm not, I'm not clear on, uh, you know, what, all's gonna happen in the future and uh, but uh, you know, I, I, I support Kamala and I'd like to see her yeah. Take over the helm. Uh, one thing I

Jeff Nesbitt: wanted to add.

It's distributing power and benefits based on race. That's racist. Mm-hmm or it's at the very least it's racial. And I would really prefer if we just stopped doing that, it'd be, it seems like it'd be a lot easier if we just like. Value people based on their merit or their contributions to society or their intelligence or their creativity or any of these myriad of things that we could choose other than the color of their skin.

Yeah. Right. Like we've said that it's, so we've said that so much, it's cliche, like we're not gonna judge people on the color of their skin unless they're white and that seems like it's not fair I don't, I don't get it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's the allocated, it's the elephant in the room and we, you know, we, we have a lot of work to do

Jeff Nesbitt: there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there does have to be some kind of a balancing done because of the fact that there's, there is an equity and there's power distributions that have been unfair.

So I, I do it's complicated. I don't know how to do it.

Ned Heavenrich: Absolutely. Very complicated,

Jeff Nesbitt: but I don't think we should forbid. Old white guys from political office. That'd be

Ned Heavenrich: crazy. Well, it's not gonna happen anyway. They're dominated. Yeah. There's a

If you are white and over [00:55:00] the age of 45, that would be an interesting next 10 years. Imagine all the, all what that would do to the world. It would change a lot. It would make it like, well, leave, let there be a grandfather clause. If you've already got the job, you can stay there until they, until they kick you out.

Um, I do think it would actually inspire some minorities to get involved. I think it's probably. Kind of a, an like, um, imposing prospect to, if you're a traditionally marginalized group to think, like, I wanna be a politician. I

Ned Heavenrich: don't know. Yeah. I really think we need a musical break though. Yes,

Jeff Nesbitt: we do. Yeah.

Okay. I think that's great. all. All right, so I'm going to swing my mic. Oh, wait. Yeah, you're on guitar. I'm gonna swing my mic over there to record you. Uh, I think we can pick it both

Ned Heavenrich: up here, but whatever

Jeff Nesbitt: you wanna do, it'll just keep me from breathing in the mic while we're okay. While you're playing.

Oh, this chair might. I got, I can, let's see. Let me see. Well, I'm just squeaking my guitar there. I'm trying to, so yeah, I, uh, Hitchen we were gonna talk about Hitchen and here's here's the song I wrote the title song to it.[00:57:00]

I remember the, my life was much simpler. All I needed was a bag. And to shoes for the didn't need much money. Just the faith in humanity, a harp my hand and love to shoulder. My,

So glad to be alive. No birthday it's I would agree with the wind and rain.

It brought out

Standing over the cold, warm my gazing up bad to ceiling of stars in the sky. A couple of wine in my, and a growing inside me

Jeff Nesbitt: overwhelmed

Ned Heavenrich: by the beauty, uh, hall of joy. Do I cry?

Very nice.

Jeff Nesbitt: Thank you.

Ned Heavenrich: yeah, we got to do it, uh, four, four different times. And, uh, you know, I, I should, uh, I'd say I started, uh, I started writing it in, uh, I think the winter of 96 and then over the winter of 97 at that time, I was, um, let's see what was, yeah, I was doing carpentry work and the winters were always a slow kind of time.

It was really kind of a blessing.

Jeff Nesbitt: Did it help you to work through stuff?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Yeah. Big time. I mean, I'm a very strong believer in, in, in therapy and, and working, working with others and, uh, Caitlin stacker is a therapist in Astoria who really has helped me through some oh really tough times. Yeah. Good therapist

Jeff Nesbitt: is pretty hard to

Ned Heavenrich: beat.

Um,

Jeff Nesbitt: and I don't remember if from the play, is there a piece in there about a father, son relationship? Yeah. That's

Ned Heavenrich: all, it's what it's all about. Yeah. It's about the father letting go mm-hmm and remembering the time when he hit the road. Okay. Against his father's objections, you know, and he's coming back around and remembering what that was like, cuz he's kind of a solid businessman now, you know?

So which would've been my path if I, if I had stayed on, you know, well, my dad took over from his dad, but uh, my, you would've got into fashion just like them. Huh? I, I, I it's, it's inconceivable to me now, but uh, and my mother and my, my dad worked like seven days a week, you know, small business thing. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: did you at least get to have affluence because of him being gone on time? Because that's the double whammy. If you're still struggling and you're still time, we

Ned Heavenrich: were, we were okay.

We were, you know, middle, middle class, but no, we were not because six kids that's a lot of kids. Yeah. Eats up a lot of stuff,

Jeff Nesbitt: but he's just trying to keep up running on the treadmill of life.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. And my mother said, I don't care what you do. Just don't don't go work at the store.

Jeff Nesbitt: Did you ever work there?

Jeff Nesbitt: No. Yeah. Do you like to sell, are you a salesman? Some people just got

Ned Heavenrich: it. I, I, I think I can, you know, I, I probably did pick up some stuff from there. I'm not a. I like to sell CDs.

Jeff Nesbitt: It's so something that you actually think is good. Yeah. Like, but you're not a car salesman. Used car salesman type. Yeah. That's kind of actually how I am too.

Yeah. I like to, I like to provide value to people. So if I got something good, I like to sell it, but I'm not gonna try to sell somebody something just because I wanna get

Ned Heavenrich: rid of it. Yeah. I, I couldn't be a salesman as a profession. Yeah. That just didn't work for me. Yeah. Yeah. But I appreciated good salesman.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's how I feel about smoking crack.

Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: I haven't tried that. So

Jeff Nesbitt: me either actually. Um, well I have a couple more things I'd like to get to. Sure. I wanna talk, I wanna hear you talk more about being a dad cuz your kids turned out great. And you haven't talked much about them yet. You mentioned Otis, but you've got another one. And I would like to hear some about that.

Maybe some of the differences between having a boy and a girl and fatherhood there. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about that? Absolutely.

So, uh, two was just right for us, you know? I mean,

Jeff Nesbitt: I, it seems like a good number. That's always what I wanted. Yeah. One boy, one girl. That was always my goal. Yeah. It's why I married Melissa. You

Ned Heavenrich: got that. And you, you got the blessing of another one and, and that's awesome. She bonus. Yeah. Yeah. That is awesome.

Uh, but yeah, two, two was just right for us and, you know, we, we wanted to live simply, you know, so I built our house and it's a small. but comfortable kind of space. And we were able to raise them and, uh, you know, I can't say enough about my wife. She's like the most nurturing person. I

Jeff Nesbitt: know she does have a very nurturing energy.

Ned Heavenrich: energy.

Yeah. Very patient, very loving, you know, and the kindergarten teacher for 20 years, that takes a lot of patience. And

Jeff Nesbitt: that's probably what I was picking up on. Yeah. Yeah. I married one. Its an

Ned Heavenrich: I like, yeah, it's a, it's a great energy. Yeah. Cuz you know, kids are very, very creative at that age and, and she's and intuitive.

Jeff Nesbitt: They pick up on those kind of people. They're like, oh she's good. Yeah. I I'll listen to her.

Uh, she promised me, uh, a, a lemon me pie once a month. Did she hold up on that of the year she did for a while. And then, you know, it's like, well, that's too much, hun. You know, that's a lot of pie that is pie. that's 12 pies a year. Yeah. That's it was good for a while, but yeah, no, I was. I was glad that, uh, you know, we're down to a couple of those, uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: a year she still bakes occasionally the pies she does.

She seems like she would

Ned Heavenrich: bake quite well. Oh yeah. Her, her grandmother was a famous baker, so she really wanted to honor her. And I, I have benefited greatly from that over the years. So I love baked

Ned Heavenrich: So yeah, we had Otis and then it took us a while to before.

I mean, she was always kind of advocating for a second child and I was a little, you know, Hey, this is pretty great. You know, we can live in this small space and

Jeff Nesbitt: you're kind of, uh, if it ain't broke, don't fix it type of guy. Huh?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, you know, finally, uh, I was thinking, you know, I had, uh, some siblings and I'm really.

Close to all my siblings and I thought, yeah, you know, you should have a sibling too. So, um, uh, we, yeah, we had a daughter like four and a half years later, she, uh, she was using quite a character, very fun, uh, person. And, um,

Jeff Nesbitt: what was their relationship like growing up? Did they fight or were they because that's four years is a gap that could go either way.

Yeah. It's almost,

Jeff Nesbitt: oh yeah. That's pretty bad. Yeah, we got that going, but it, I don't know. Sawyer is coming back from Alaska soon, so yeah, I'm excited right now. I can't even hardly picture them fighting they

Ned Heavenrich: won't, they'll probably be a grace period there.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. We'll see. I don't know. They follow. Oh, he might

Ned Heavenrich: be kind of a. Big man now, you know,

Jeff Nesbitt: I really expected that last year. Yeah. Like he's gonna come home and be too cool for me. Yeah. Um, and he wasn't at all. Oh, that's good. He was really like smiley and fun. Like happy he like, let us see that he was happy to be home.

Oh, that's great. Which is usually very reserved and like, doesn't want to let us see him have emotions. Yeah. But it was good. I'm excited. I can't wait for him to get home, but, um, yeah. Anyway, um, what kind of differences did you notice between Otis and Eliza, uh, in what they needed from you as a dad?

But, um, uh, Once, you know, Otis left got out of the house, she became kind of the, you know, the focus. We did a lot of great stuff together and she's really adventurous. I love that. Is she ever go cross country

Jeff Nesbitt: skiing with you?

Ned Heavenrich: Oh yeah. Yeah. She, yep. She's, she's uh, very into sports. Yeah. They're, they're both very, um, into fitness.

They run and they bike and they, they see, I

Jeff Nesbitt: just notice that the bridge run usually. Yeah. He's fast.

Ned Heavenrich: Well, your daughter whooped him this year, so, well, she's really fast. she's not your standard. 11 year old. Yeah. He, he just likes to keep in shape, you know? And, uh, and that's, and that's great cuz my wife and I are, are very much into it.

Jeff Nesbitt: doing it right. You

Ned Heavenrich: travel, you have fun. Yeah, we are. And, but we started every day. We do, we have. We feel like it's our job to stay healthy. So we do yoga for like 50, 60 minutes every day, every morning we get up and do that, and then we're gonna walk or bike or something an hour, you know?

And, uh, we have a dog, so we gotta do a lot of walking. So

Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, you owe it to them and they, they like it. Well,

Ned Heavenrich: they

Jeff Nesbitt: motivate us, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was noticing that I'm sitting here staring at your face for two hours. Like your wrinkle level is about equal to mine. I, I don't think so. I am out in the sun so much and I, I do a lot of this raising my eyebrows cause I'm always so surprised.

Ned Heavenrich: Uh, there isn't one, no

Jeff Nesbitt: skincare routine, huh?

No. Wow. No, uh, none of that retinol a

Ned Heavenrich: huh? I, I, I do put on sunblock if I'm outside. Yeah. What kind do you use? Whatever's available

Jeff Nesbitt: even the kind with bad chemicals in it.

Ned Heavenrich: Probably. Yeah. I'm not sure what that kind is, but yeah, we, we try to use, you know, good stuff. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: You, uh, like granola,

Ned Heavenrich: my wife makes the most amazing granola.

Jeff Nesbitt: You beat me to my next question. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I, that was a complete guess. I didn't know that. Oh yeah,

Ned Heavenrich: no. We just had some today, uh, with, uh, some cousins who had come by for a, for a little visit and,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, they put pumpkin seeds in it. You put pumpkin seeds in it? Yes. Oh yeah. That just popped into my head.

Yeah. I think it might be telepathic. Let's

Jeff Nesbitt: you do Brazil nuts ever? No,

Ned Heavenrich: I don't like them. Well, they're too big. I love Brazil nuts. They got a weird taste. Oh, they're delicious. I think,

Jeff Nesbitt: yeah. Also the racist name from my childhood made me like, I'm not eating that.

Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: You, you don't need to go there. I won't. Yeah, I absolutely won't. Yeah. I mean to, to eat a Brazil nut, you don't need to go there. You can just appreciate its delicate flavor.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's just where the negative association started. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, they're my least favorite. Nu a little too oily. I think. Uh, my favorite hazelnut.

Yeah, those are

Ned Heavenrich: delicious. They don't call 'em Hazel nuts anymore though.

Jeff Nesbitt: Philbert yeah. Oh, you said that. And I was like, isn't that? Yeah. Okay. My bad. Yeah. We'll cut all this

Ned Heavenrich: out. I mean, I think it's still acceptable. It's okay. But why not that anymore? I don't know. I think maybe it's a marketing thing. I don't

Jeff Nesbitt: know.

Okay. Hazel nuts sounds better than Philbert to me.

Jeff Nesbitt: But if you go get a coffee, it's gonna be hazing. It's flavored. It's not gonna be Filbert. That's

Ned Heavenrich: not even coffee.

What is it? It's like some like coffee, some kind of drink with chemicals

Jeff Nesbitt: in it. What I've been trying to get coffee. you ever had green coffee or white coffee? it's like not roasted as much. It has way more caffeine kinda tastes like.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, see that wouldn't be good for me cuz I have sleep issues. So me too, I drink coffee once a week.

Like wow. Sunday. That's my celebratory day. Yeah. Other that I like to do, I, I do drink black tea every morning.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh that's like a good amount of caffeine. Uh it's half of coffee. Yeah. So it's I think a lot of people are overdosing on caffeine without even realizing it. I mean, I'm so sweaty right now. It's not that hot in here.

Ned Heavenrich: It's warm in here. Jeff.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. But um, I, I, it

Ned Heavenrich: was a warm day. It was a warm day, day and heat rises and it's, you know, it's caught in this,

How'd you get into that?

Okay. But where I grew up, it's pretty flat a lot of lakes, but it gets cold. Right. It gets cold. Yeah. And so, yeah, there were Hills you could ski at, but they called them mountains, you know, they, they, yeah. And they were probably manmade. Oh. So they could be taller. Okay. Yeah. So I learned how to, you know, downhill ski, I'd never heard of cross country skiing then.

So I, I invested in a pair of skis that lasted to me 30 years. I I've got another pair that have lasted me almost 10 now, but you know, 200 bucks and he, and we go to a place you. You actually ski into, and then you, you just walk out the door, put your skis on and go ski around Trium lake. You know, that sounds awesome.

Oh, it's fantastic.

um, but it doesn't look because you get like, can you, you can glide. Yeah. You get time to glide.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. It depends on, you know, I'm not sure where that that fact toy came from.

Jeff Nesbitt: But, uh, I know that the ski ERGs that you can do, like it's like IG standing up and you do it. Like you pull the things down is pretty, pretty exhausting.

It's just like, there's a full body workout. It seems like. To slide a slide yourself

Ned Heavenrich: around. It's gonna, it depends on how steep, how steep you ski, right? Yeah. You know, if you're going up a steep hill, it's gonna be a hell of a workout and you know, I've done that, but you know, you ever had any really bad crashes.

Yeah. You just get this rhythm going. It's like dancing, you got this rhythm going, even though you say you can't dance, the glide is, is, uh, just, I could, I could ski I think. Yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: absolutely not. The Alpine, not downhill. I've tried that it didn't work out, but. if I could row, I could, I could probably

Ned Heavenrich: slide, you know, it's, it's basically walking in.

you just get into it and it's so cool to be

Jeff Nesbitt: in a place. Very mindful. Yeah. I bet. It's cool to be in a spot where, you know, you all these mountains behind you in the world. That's why I put 'em there. Yeah. I wanted to feel like that every time we're out here. Yeah. But I like being in places where you can't drive, like, and yeah.

Being far from roads and, and being like, wow, this it's it's novel cuz you don't really get to do that very often in this day and age most. I mean, I bet you, a lot of people listening to this, can't remember the last time they were five miles from a road. Mm-hmm that doesn't happen that often you drive everywhere, but it's, it's fun.

I like it. Well you just gotta

Ned Heavenrich: get out and hike and yeah. Yeah. Get out on your feet. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's another passion of, you know, of ours is to hike. So you ever

Jeff Nesbitt: hitchhike anymore?

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I wouldn't want my mom picking up.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. but I, I do pick him up sometimes. I like it. Good for you.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, no, I, if I'm alone and, uh, uh, I'll do that, but, um,

Jeff Nesbitt: there are people you can truly be yourself around. You can be as weird as you want you, like, you don't have there's. No, there's no. Uh, what am I niceties with a hitchhiker?

Like, I'll tell them flat out, Hey, or I'll ask them flat out. You're not gonna try to kill me or do anything steal my stuff. Right. And if they say no, I promise I won't not let 'em in.

Ned Heavenrich: That's great. That's great. I've had to get out of some cars really? And my youth. Oh yeah. Get picked up by creeps. Well, you know, let's see.

Had to say it. No, you know, please let me out. Thanks for the thanks. But no thanks. Did you ever get picked

Jeff Nesbitt: up by somebody who just gave you the creeps? Like, oh, this guy's gonna murder me?

Ned Heavenrich: No. You know, uh, generally people were really, really kind and, uh, yeah, I had some nice exchanges. That's good with folks.

I had very few bad experiences. Yes. And they, nothing, you know, that were, that I felt was, um, that they were personally trying to, to hurt me. You know, mostly they were just either outta control or yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Mm-hmm yeah. Most people picking up hitch hikers or bored. They just want some company

Ned Heavenrich: in the yeah. They want company.

Jeff Nesbitt: It is great. And it's, I mean, it's, you can't really do it all the time, especially once you have kids.

No. I used to pick up hitchhiker all the time and then I had started having kids in the car and they wh so much when they have to sit by bums. It's crazy. Yeah. So I just don't know anymore.

Ned Heavenrich: My mother, when we were kids, she used to pick up hitchhiker when she had five kids in the car. Really?

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I was just kidding,

Ned Heavenrich: but she actually did it.

She had no fear. I wanna

Jeff Nesbitt: live in a world where people can catch a ride from a stranger. Yeah. That's, that's a nice thought.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. It's great to, you know, share a space and, you know, we don't have to all drive and our vehicle waste gas.

Jeff Nesbitt: I saw a crazy thing yesterday. It was called the line and it's in Saudi Arabia.

They're building a city that is basically like, uh, One big skyscraper that's miles long. So, so it's like, it looks like a giant wall. It's like the high tech version of the great wall of China. Yeah. Okay. Have you seen this? Absolutely not. Oh, you should check it out. It is almost scary. It looks like a dystopian novel, like a sci-fi novel, but they're building this city vertically with mirrored sides out in the desert.

So it's like, it cuts across the whole country. And instead they're taking basically like a city, the size of New York or Los Angeles and stacking it vertically. And they're, I, I can't even

Jeff Nesbitt: It's you ever seen the movie? The fifth, the fifth element? I have not. Have you seen any movie where they have like a vertically integrated city in a futuristic dystopian way?

Have not check 'em out. That's where you would see these type of thing. Okay. They're building one in Saudi Arabia. Okay. Uh, it is fascinating. I don't know. I don't remember how we started talking about that, but, so what's the advantage? Um, smaller footprint. So you're, you're, that's good. You're compacting all of the human, you know, all of the filth and mm-hmm damage the environment, all the stuff that we do, just smashing it together in a, in an area that's much, much smaller.

So you're leaving a lot more land untouched, which it looked to me to be desert out there. So I don't know.

Ned Heavenrich: But Saudi Arabia is, yeah,

Technology stuff. I think it's really fascinating. There's it's changing fast. It's faster than we can keep up with. Right. It actually is probably good because we're also damaging the planet faster than we can, mitigate it with technology. So it's like a game of catch up all the time.

Ned Heavenrich: What's next? Let's see. Oh,

Jeff Nesbitt: dispersed camping. So have you done some off grid camping?

Ned Heavenrich: Yes. Yeah. What's that like a fair amount? Uh, liberating. Yeah. Yeah. Where did you go? Oh, you know, also for years, actually since 77, well, there were some years I wasn't doing it, but we've done river rafting, which is basically, you know, the same kind of thing.

Um, but, uh, there's just enormous amounts of land out there. And the national parks are crawling with people. This was at the start of the pan pandemic when everybody was, you know, trying to get out. So, um, we started doing, uh, the dispersed camping with some friends who had done a fair amount of it. And they were also river rafting buddies.

Um, and then you have to have some, we, we don't have a, and we have a, like a popup popup camper, you know, small doesn't have a toilet, uh, just, you know, it's got water for a sink and stuff like that. So we have to have, um, a toilet system, which is, you know, now used, used to be, we used to, you know, dedicate into a, uh, a, a bit large rocket box, you know, military rocket boxes, which is like, uh, you know, 22 inches long, eight inches wide, 14, 16 inches high that's very specific.

No, no, it's just a bag with some dry chemicals in it.

Jeff Nesbitt: And then sounds like a chemical toilet. What's a chemical toilet. Well, I

Ned Heavenrich: think that's one, you know, like a porta potty kind of thing. Okay. Yeah. This is not, yeah. It's, it's very, you know, it's got like a tablespoon of granules in it. Is it

Jeff Nesbitt: like some, uh, bacteria, like a, or some kind of a digestive enzymes?

No problem. Yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah. It, no, it's great. And so you go in the

Jeff Nesbitt: same bag a few times. Yeah. Right. You pee in there too. You try not to seems like that. Get a little sloshy. You try

Ned Heavenrich: not to, to pee sometimes, you know, you can't help it, right? Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about. Yeah. Just a little bit, but you pee first.

Gotcha. You know, it takes some training, but we've been river rafting for since the seventies. So that's what you had to do there too. You had to, you would pee into a bucket and then you would sit on what they call the, the, uh, the groove. And, uh, it was a toilet seat on this, you know, rocket box, military rocket box thing, and then you had to, you know, carry that out and then you had to go to a, a place that would clean it out.

Wow. A machine. You

Ned Heavenrich: No, you can't do that. Well, some in a desert, in a desert environment, because I

Jeff Nesbitt: I'm thinking on the raft, I was thinking on the

Ned Heavenrich: raft, you know, most rivers, especially desert rivers. You wanna pee in the water. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, you can, you can pee right in the raft cuz a lot of these rafts, uh, are, uh, self bailing.

So you don't wanna

Jeff Nesbitt: guy pissing in the RAF? Oh no.

Ned Heavenrich: It's okay. Cause you know, it just goes in and goes right

Jeff Nesbitt: out. I would not. But then, but still there's other people in this raft, right? You got it's splashing in their flip flops. No

Ned Heavenrich: little bit though. Not really because you know, there's water in there all the time.

Yeah. You don't know any better. Yeah. And so you're, you don't have tell they're pretty much alone in, in, in your space that you're doing up in the Bower. I gotcha.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. So it's a secret

Ned Heavenrich: P but everybody has to, you know, the good thing about this thing is you all get used to everybody doing their bodily functions without being embarrassed.

Jeff Nesbitt: other well, when you're camping. Yeah. You do. When we were rowing, , if anyone had to pee in the boat, which you're usually not sitting in there for more than a couple hours, so most people just hold it. I've never seen someone try to take you're talking skulls and like a crew shell.

Yeah. So like I'm, I'm picturing the, like , the Cox eight, which would be like eight rowers of one coxswain. Those things are not balanced. Like the oars and the Riggs and the, the men in the boat or women in the boat are what balance the boat. There's no keel or anything. So if, if there's people not in the boat, the boat just falls over, just flops over.

Yeah. So if, if there's any kind of unbalance at all, it's really tricky. So to pee, you had to like, have someone on the other side of the boat lean out. Yeah, sure. And so you can lean out and it's, it was very, I mean, you're right next to a lot of people it's, it's no fun, but like you said, you just get used to it.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. You normalize it. Yeah. Cause there's no nothing else you can do.

Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: There's no other options. It's either that, or just be miserable

Ned Heavenrich: the whole time. That's right.

Jeff Nesbitt: For no reason, cuz we're all doing it, but yeah. So how do you get you just take water from streams and stuff and purify the water. Do you mean water purification systems? When you doing the dispersed, camping,

Ned Heavenrich: dispersed camping?

No. We just take, you know, six gallon jugs and then, you know, usually you're not too far from a place where you can get water. I mean, you might be, maybe you need to go get ice or food or something, you know, in town, 20 miles away and you just take your jugs.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's cool. Have you ever used those life straws or any of those purification systems that they have now?

Yeah. We had a couple Lamas for about 13 or 14 years. Oh, they were your LAAS. Yeah. Oh,

Jeff Nesbitt: wow. So maybe so is LA camping a thing or is that just what you just called it? Cuz you were doing it and you had LAAS or is that like something other people do? Yeah. It's can you like hashtag Lama camping?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Yeah. And there's, you know, there are a lot of Outfitters that you can go, like

Jeff Nesbitt: I know

Ned Heavenrich: you can go on donkey hikes, right?

So he could be, he, he, he could be a spitter at time, but you knew when he was gonna spit. So you just, you know, you had to know, how do you tell, just get, you know, this look and if you were putting something on him that he didn't like, you know, then you had to, you know, just be careful. He starts going, we never really got spit.

You know, he never spit in my face or anything, but we had another one that was an amazing packer. And we had a load to him down the, and he was much lighter a frame, but you had to just pile it on. Otherwise you'd be running to keep up with him. Oh, really? Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Wow. And they like doing

Ned Heavenrich: it. Huh? Yeah. That's what they were bred to do.

Wow. Yeah. And so, and then, and they're so easy because you don't have to bring food, they just graze. Oh,

Jeff Nesbitt: wow. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that sounds

So not far from Packwood, sort of. So you have a view up in the goat rocks. It's a, it's an ancient Calera too. And, uh, you have a view of St. Helens, Mount Adams and Rainier. So it's right in between there, but you can see all these peaks. It's pretty amazing place. And it's the, the Meadows, it's all wildflowers up there in the meadow.

Oh, wow. They're, they're famous, you know, they're like, it's like right on the Pacific coast trail. Yeah. So it's like the best wildflowers on the Pacific coast trail. Wow. And so we would go up there, you know, hike in, you know, maybe five, five hours make a base camp. And then really we did, we just let the.

They could carry, you know, 80 pounds on their backs. Wow. And you didn't have to carry, but I used to carry my, my guitar. All I would take was my, my little guitar, which was ways like. Five pounds. Mm-hmm that sounds like a blast it, oh yeah, no, we, we loved it and, uh, yeah. I mean, there's tons of, uh, what do you eat on those trips?

Goats. Oh, you could eat well when you can pack 80 yeah. Pounds. Yeah. So you'd

Jeff Nesbitt: bring, would you bring wet food or just, oh yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Okay. So you're bring it forward, but we would bring some backpacker stuff too. Mm-hmm yeah. We'd even bring wine box wine, you know, that travels fairly well, it, it . Yeah. When the Lama's packing it, it's not bad.

Yeah.

And also, did you ever homeschool your kids or, or with they in public school forever? No. Well,

Ned Heavenrich: my wife was, you know, a kindergarten teacher. And, uh, yeah, they went to Napa.

Jeff Nesbitt: Okay.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, no, we didn't. Yeah, no. You know, in those days you mostly pulled your kids outta school because you were a Christian and you didn't believe they were teaching Christian values, you know?

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, they weren't they're

Ned Heavenrich: not supposed to that's right. That's right. Yeah. And, and, uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: that's an argument. I can't sorry. I, no, no.

And, uh, so, and then I worked in the schools as a teaching assistant, uh, the last 10 years of my working life, because I had to replace a, a hip at 51. Oh man. And so you

Jeff Nesbitt: still have it? Yeah, man, that same one knock on

Ned Heavenrich: wood. Wow. What a great product. 21. Maybe the 22nd year. That's pretty good. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: How long do those things last?

I don't know. That's cool. What's it made of

Ned Heavenrich: titanium. Oh, those are the good ones. Yeah. Actually, you know what wears out is the socket, cuz it's like, uh, some kind of a plastic thing. Oh yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Just like the real hips. Right? Isn't that the part that wears out the, what is that? That, I don't know. The hip I'm I'm no hip scientist.

Ned Heavenrich: It's bone grinding on bones. So you're wearing out the ball and the socket, the

Jeff Nesbitt: cartilage in there. There's no cartilage. There's bone

Ned Heavenrich: on bone in there. That's why you replace your hip.

Ned Heavenrich: that's when your cartilage is gone because you had arthritis. Oh, okay.

Jeff Nesbitt: So that's not the natural design. Your hip had no cartilage. That's correct. That makes more sense. Yeah. That makes more sense.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. No, there was a nice cushion in there, but you know, uh, arthritis aided up and uh, yeah.

So yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: just the one side.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Do we have company? I think we have company Amelia.

Jeff Nesbitt: You can come. Can open a door that

Ned Heavenrich: oh yeah. I'll get you. Okay. We need a pause for Amelia here. Yeah. Perfect. She can enjoy the song too. Okay.

Jeff Nesbitt: Okay.

Melia say hi.

Ned Heavenrich: well said, Amelia. All right. You know, we have a song we do about it's called Amelia it's about Amelia Earhart, who was an aviator. Uh, she was one of the first women to fly planes. Have we ever talked about her?

Jeff Nesbitt: No. She was one of the inspirations for your name.

Ned Heavenrich: Ah, that's cool. I'll we'll have to sing that song for you.

Jeff Nesbitt: or something. Wow. Yeah. I always like that name because of Amelia Earhart mm-hmm and also that book, my, um, our only ma Amelia. Have you ever read that? Amelia Padilla, Amelia Madelia too. Some other classic literature. I love Amelia

Ned Heavenrich: Padilla.

Jeff Nesbitt: there's, there's a few different, uh, iterations. Yeah. Of that same character. Like one of 'em she's a maid and another one. She's like a little kid. Uh, but they're, they're all good. Yeah. Where are you going? He's gonna sit right there. You can. You, you won't be able to be heard on the mic though.

Do you want, you can sit right? You wanna be heard? Yeah. You also, you gotta talk here. Just sit with me. Yeah. Is it because I'm, I'm sweaty.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Oh

Jeff Nesbitt: yeah. Too bad. Um, this is the deal. You gotta stay on my lap. If you're gonna stay otherwise you can't hear me. I mean, I can't hear you cuz when you were in the podcast last time, I, I couldn't really use much of what you said cuz you wouldn't

Ned Heavenrich: talk in the mic.

Yeah. We, we would like to hear what you say. Yeah. We value your opinion.

Jeff Nesbitt: Do you have anything to talk about while you're here? Yeah. What do you wanna talk about?

Jeff Nesbitt: talking into the mic. What is, what did you say?

Ned Heavenrich: I said Poppy's being so cute right now because she's laying on the bed.

What is poppy? My dog. Oh,

Jeff Nesbitt: do you have any questions for uncle?

Ned Heavenrich: No, not right now. That's all right. But I will. Okay. I'll, I'll answer the best I can. When, when you find the question at poppy dad.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, she looks okay. I guess so

Ned Heavenrich: cute.

What is that

Jeff Nesbitt: for your mom? Made me a note sheet and I'm making sure I got everything on here. Um, the only thing we didn't cover that's on the list is, um, is conservation slash stewardship a big part of your life? I think so.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: A warrior for nature

Ned Heavenrich: very much.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's a really, a really important part of living in this area.

Ned Heavenrich: have been involved, uh, years ago I was in a group called. Organized citizens for environmental action now called ocean. Oh wow. And I was like, uh, yeah, on the board there and for, I don't know, four or five years. And we, we were trying to get the state to stop spraying pesticides, and we were fairly successful.

I mean, they still are using them, but not using them actually herbicides, Oregon state, the state department of forestry, Oregon. Yes. They, they use a lot less in Washington. Yeah. But it it's been an education for them. And I mean, they're still, they still are using it, but they're being more respectful of PE you know, we have a, we have a spring, our water comes from a spring and it's on, you know, it originates, uh, very close to state forestry land.

Jeff Nesbitt: are you talking about like helicopter sprays on clear cuts? Yeah, that's right. Hey, please. Don't walk on that stuff. Hey sweetie. You're walking on the mic stuff. You can't be right there.

Ned Heavenrich: Mm-hmm

Jeff Nesbitt: um, I'm sorry. I'm my bad. Are you talking about, uh, helicopter sprays on clear cuts?

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. Yeah. Especially adjoining, you know, we're property owners or people who are living right there. Yeah. And there's, you know, tons of documentation about drift. And so, yeah, no, I mean, we were pretty successful in working with them and, and, you know, if there was you getting them to, to, you know, release manually release, you know, alders and stuff that they felt were, you know, uh, competing with their monoculture.

Jeff Nesbitt: So just to let it grow a little bit more naturally,

Jeff Nesbitt: And are they doing that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. That's good. There's gotta be, uh, I mean, I'm sure they've done research and stuff, but they let a lot of weeds grow in those, in those clear cuts in the five years.

And really more like 10 years after a clear cut, cuz they're at least in Washington state, they're not required to follow the same regulations of weed laws that, that regular citizens are. So like if I was that, if I was to buy a piece of property and I cut it down and I clearcut it and I would be subject to noxious weed loss, like I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be allowed to let Tanzie rag war just become established and go crazy.

Ned Heavenrich: Tanzie rag wart. Oh yeah. But, um, which we don't really want growing

Jeff Nesbitt: anyway. No, it's a toxic plant. Yeah. It's very bad stuff. But it's against the law to have on your property here,

I see. .

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah, that's right. That's that's the double standard. Exactly. Yeah. And, and money talks. What's up males.

I'll come back out when I'm

Jeff Nesbitt: I find poppy.

Amelia, do you want to hear uncle Ned play a song first? Yes. Let's. Let's have him play a song instead and then I'm gonna go

Ned Heavenrich: back and okay.

Jeff Nesbitt: Okay. So, uh, we're gonna wrap up the podcast. We're gonna wrap up the podcast with a song, so yeah. Ned take it away.

Ned Heavenrich: Yeah. This is, uh, you know, I've written actually a fair amount of songs and, uh, the Browns made Flats, uh, do a lot of their own music and mostly writing about place.

So writing about living in, in this area and, um,

And I, I couldn't get that title outta my head. So I wrote a song called one long river of song. I long to float upon one long river of song. The landslide slowly by the [01:49:00] music varies a song. As we travel down this river of song, let's saw John in and sing along. We have Amelia dancing for me. Inspiring me, especially this next verse.

May we cherish our children and their children to share the joy and wonder in all the things they do as we travel down this river of song let's solve, join in and sing along. Not sure about that edge

Ned Heavenrich: okay with humility and humor. May we embrace life's mystery? Let's jump into the boat and ride down to the sea.

As we travel down this river of song

Jeff Nesbitt: let's SA

Ned Heavenrich: join dancing long

along as we travel down this river of song let's and sing and sing and sing and sing.

Man. We had some good dance in there, Amelia. I'm so glad you came out to do that. thank you.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah.

Ned Heavenrich: Thank you everybody for listen. We'll talk to you next time.

Jeff Nesbitt: Bye.