Join host Natasha Moharter in an engaging CEU Provider Spotlight Conversation on the Continuing Education for Mental Health Professionals podcast. Featuring special guest Vanya Gadabedian, founder of Intentional Path Counseling, this episode dives into her 20+ years of mental health expertise. They discuss Vanya's journey into content creation and training, the importance of cultural humility, tackling unintended harm, and supporting providers on their own healing journeys. Vanya also shares her experiences with in-person and virtual trainings, the Ethical Provider Collective, and creating a supportive community for New Mexican providers.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:25 Meet Vanya Gadabedian

01:03 Vanya's Journey and Philosophy

01:51 Challenges and Rewards of Content Creation

03:13 Navigating Anxiety and Vulnerability

04:47 The Importance of Passion and Alignment

09:54 Supporting Providers in Their Healing Journey

18:28 Personal Growth and Professional Development

24:26 Addressing Unintended Harm in Care Systems

26:15 Challenging the Expert Culture

26:54 Personal Journey Through Addiction and Recovery

27:47 Navigating Unintended Harm and Missteps

31:20 Building a Local Professional Community

42:01 The Ethical Provider Collective

45:32 Balancing Business and Social Justice

49:54 Embracing Discomfort and Growth

53:59 Conclusion and Resources

Vanya Garabedian, LCSW

vanya@intentionalpathcounseling.com

Intentional Path Counseling

https://www.intentionalpathcounseling.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanya-garabedian-lcsw-56a8631b/

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100076038402754

CEUs New Mexico - Lifelong Learners in Mental and Behavioral Health (for New Mexico Providers and Residents Only) - FB Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/320921537151296

NATASHA MOHARTER

https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashamoharter/

https://facebook.com/natasha.ocd

https://instagram.com/natasha.ocd

YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@learnocd

Continuing Education (CE) for Mental Health Professionals FB Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/continuing.ed

https://www.youtube.com/@continuing-education

Welcome to the Continuing Education for Mental

2

Health Professionals podcast.

3

Today we are hosting another CEU

Provider Spotlight Conversation.

4

This is where we learn more

about CEU providers in our

5

community and their journeys.

6

My name is Natasha Moharter, and I'm a

licensed counselor and OCD specialist.

7

I run the Facebook group CE for Mental

Health Professionals, and if you're a

8

mental health professional, we'd love

to have you join us in that space.

9

I am so excited because we are joined by

our very special guest, Vanya Gadabedian.

10

With over 20 years of experience in

the mental health field, Vanya offers

11

a rich and diverse range of expertise.

12

As the founder of Intentional Path

Counseling, she is dedicated to fostering

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supportive, engaging, and informative

environments for learning and growth.

14

She has expertise in supporting providers

to engage in their own healing journeys

15

so they can better support the people

and communities they care for with a

16

focus on trauma, diversity, equity,

inclusion, ethics, and supervision.

17

Welcome Vanya, it is such a

pleasure to have you here today.

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Vanya Garabedian: Thank you.

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I'm so excited to be here.

20

Natasha Moharter: Can you share a

little bit about your background

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and what got you interested in

becoming a creator and CEU provider?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh man.

23

So I really enjoy facilitation and

supporting others and showing up

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in ways that I can be helpful in

the communities that I'm a part of.

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So kind of combining my passion

with recognizing that I'm effective

26

at doing these things has really

driven me to, start doing this.

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And I have a really strong belief to

like with privilege comes responsibility.

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I have this information, I

have this skillset, I have this

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perspective, I have this experience.

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And with that, I feel pretty

strongly comes a responsibility

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to do what I can to share support

and enable growth for others too.

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Natasha Moharter: What have been

your favorite parts of this journey

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into content creation and training?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh my gosh.

35

I think my absolute favorite part

is the people that I get to meet

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and the growth that I get to see.

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Like there is nothing that I like

better than watching someone go from

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one place to another in a direction that

they haven't been able to move before

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or a new insight, a new awareness.

40

I'm really driven by people, uh, and

community building and connection.

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Yeah, that's what I love.

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I also get pretty nerdy with

information and research.

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So I really enjoy the deep

dives too into information.

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Natasha Moharter: One of the things

that I think about with content creation

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is by the time that they are done

taking our training, what is it that

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we hope to help them to accomplish?

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What can they implement as soon as

they are done with our training?

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And it sounds like you have

discovered your ability to be able

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to be that support that bridge.

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Vanya Garabedian: Yeah.

51

I love that you use the term "bridge."

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Cause that's kind of how I think of myself

because of the different worlds that I've

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had the privilege of getting to walk in

like whiteness and, and people of color.

54

Like I have always just naturally

been a bridge in these two worlds

55

because of my different experiences.

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There's so much divisiveness in the

world today and in our country and

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how can I do my little brick in the

wall to support bridging these gaps.

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Natasha Moharter: And from

what I see, it seems like you

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really are making an impact.

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It can be scary to have an opinion

that some people might not agree with.

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Vanya Garabedian: Yes.

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So like that is something that I

have had to work on a great deal and

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continue to work on is that anxiety and

anxiousness around, oof, the more I do

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this, the more I'm putting myself out

there and the more I become a potential

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target or, whatever you want to say a

potential person people look to, and

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that's kind of terrifying to be honest.

67

That scares me.

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And, And I guess like I learned, uh, in

my, my mid twenties, I guess, uh, that,

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uh, courage is walking through that fear.

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So I've really kind of held onto that.

71

It's like, okay, we're

just going to keep walking.

72

We're going to keep walking.

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Natasha Moharter: I so appreciate

that realness as well, because, one

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of the things that has been brought

up in conversations about content

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creation and putting our work out

there and picking up the training and

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expertise that we have and sharing it

even in these types of CEU trainings.

77

It can be intimidating.

78

It can feel like.

79

But do I really know this?

80

When we have a subject to teach we know

that we learn it a little bit better.

81

And so we get a little bit more

in depth knowledge with it.

82

But it can be really intimidating to

just kind of take those first steps and

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say, Hey, I'm going to post the thing.

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Hey, I'm going to put myself out there.

85

I'm going to be seen because we know that

not everybody is going to agree with us.

86

And yet there's going to be so many

people that need us with our voice,

87

with the way that we look, our

experience, our background, to bring

88

that voice and to be that contributor.

89

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

90

It's like uh, how do I do

it even though it's hard?

91

That's kind of a mantra that goes

on in my head, as well as like,

92

slow down without stopping is

something I'm currently working on.

93

Yeah, it's challenging and

scary and all the things.

94

And I don't know how to not do

it cause it's so important to me.

95

And there is a personal benefit I get from

it too, because you're absolutely right.

96

I gain knowledge.

97

I gain understanding into myself and

my experience, which is invaluable.

98

Absolutely.

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And I, I, that's one of my favorite parts

about it too, that you asked earlier.

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It's like the learning and

growth that I get to do.

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Natasha Moharter: That was something in

our first meeting that really stood out

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to me is, I think we're both learners

and we like to continue to learn.

103

And we're also maybe willing to challenge

ourselves, to be open to new information.

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I think you have to be, especially in

your role where you're teaching and

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you're presenting on some of these really

important topics that people might have

106

feelings about, but to be confident

in what you're saying and also willing

107

to learn and take in new information.

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And that's very much

what I see you embody.

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Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, thank you.

110

It's really important.

111

I believe this strongly that those of us

that are working in the service fields

112

of supporting people through their

growth to say the hard thing, to bring

113

the hard conversation and to do it in a

way where we're not, isolating anybody.

114

I mean, it's not going

to be perfect, right?

115

I make mistakes all the time.

116

And I actually use that

as part of my learning.

117

Like, I'm going to demonstrate to you

how fallible I am and how human I am.

118

And hopefully that creates space

for people to be vulnerable.

119

It's really, I think, like, it's important

for me to say the hard thing and bring

120

the, because if we're not, if not us, who?

121

We are like the front lines in

mental health and supporting

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people in their growth.

123

Who, if it's not us?

124

Natasha Moharter: Right.

125

Going back to that sense

of kind of responsibility.

126

And what keeps us going, for sure.

127

So, next question, what have been

some of your least favorite parts

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into this journey of content creation?

129

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, so I

am pretty severely ADD, like

130

I have been my whole life.

131

So I get lost in information and

I have like this, and I don't know

132

if it's my least favorite part.

133

Well, I guess this is the

most challenging part.

134

I'll say it like that.

135

So I get, I, I, I'm out here, I'm

in the macro and it's a lot of time

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and energy for me to bring it in.

137

So the most challenging part I'll say

is when I'm doing the deep dive and

138

I'm doing the research and all of that,

I end up with so much information and

139

such this huge kind of thing that it's,

it's a process that I've learned about

140

myself and how I go through it and have

worked on some acceptance around it.

141

And it's still challenging to bring it

in to where we are right here, right now

142

and how I can kind of get lost in that.

143

I guess maybe the least

favorite part might be.

144

Putting the folders together.

145

Like, yeah, like that, that

actual administrative part, right?

146

Like making the copies, putting the

folders together and PowerPoints.

147

I'm not, I'll be honest.

148

I am not a fan and I do them and I

provide them because it's beneficial

149

and there's different kinds of

learners and it's a struggle.

150

So that's challenging for me as well.

151

Natasha Moharter: Again, I so

appreciate your realness with this.

152

What I've kind of stumbled upon

is that a lot of us content

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creators are neurodivergent.

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And that natural struggle that comes with

it and like, we can get bored easily.

155

Do you have any kind of tips

and tricks for anybody who

156

might also struggle with this?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh my gosh.

158

It's so funny.

159

Cause I do get bored easily, which is

also one of the reasons I do so many

160

of the things that you see me doing.

161

Cause if I'm doing just one thing,

I just, I can't, I need to do other

162

things as well to keep myself invested.

163

And for me, what's really important is

I have to be passionate about it because

164

of all the, you know, the background

work, like there's so much that goes

165

into for me, like a training, like what

people are seeing is like just a tip of,

166

the iceberg of work that's underneath.

167

And in order for me to be able

to stay engaged in that iceberg

168

of work, I have to be, for me, I

have to be passionate about it.

169

So I really encourage people to go with

what they resonate with, what they, it's

170

not hard for them to get their values

in alignment with, like I'm not going to

171

do workshops around topics that they're,

they're important and they're helpful.

172

And I'm going to let the ones who

have that passion and drive do those.

173

Cause it's just going to end up feeling

tedious and laborious because it,

174

it is a lot of, it's a lot of labor.

175

So I, I really need to be invested

and in alignment with my values

176

and what I think is important.

177

Natasha Moharter: And time is

our most valuable resource.

178

And so if we're going to spend time

engaged in research and training,

179

it really does matter what we're

studying or what we're interested in.

180

And then I think it really can come

across in our trainings as well.

181

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

182

I don't know if you've ever been to

a training where you can tell the

183

person is just really not, they're just

doing their job, that I can't do it.

184

I learned that about myself

at a very early age too.

185

Like if I'm going to be working,

I'm going to do something that

186

I'm really passionate about.

187

Natasha Moharter: So another question, you

have a passion for supporting providers

188

to engage in their own healing journey

so that they can better support the

189

people and communities they care for.

190

What is it about these topics that

gives you energy and commitment to keep

191

getting out there and training others?

192

Vanya Garabedian: Oh my gosh.

193

It's so important.

194

It's such important work.

195

And it's one of my top values as a

person in this world, existing with

196

other people in this world, and

also my own personal experience.

197

And when I was in school, they're like,

Oh, this whole cultural competency.

198

And I remember thinking, how am I

expected to be culturally competent

199

on other people's cultures?

200

And it didn't make sense to me.

201

And what I understood was I, the

only person I can be an expert

202

on is me and my experience.

203

And that for me and my practice and

how I show up in the world is the most

204

important thing for me to be an expert on.

205

Cause if I can understand

my life, my experience.

206

I remember when I first learned

like that, I had a story, it was

207

before I got into this field, right?

208

Like, I was like, Oh,

everyone has a story then.

209

It's so important for me to

understand my own experience, to

210

do my healing around my wounds.

211

So many people get into this field,

let's be honest, because they've

212

had really challenging lives.

213

And it is a wealth of information

and experience people bring to it.

214

And sometimes there can be a

missed opportunity to do the

215

healing and work around that.

216

And then unintended harm happens.

217

And I've experienced the unintended harm.

218

I've watched the unintended harm.

219

And again, it goes back to

this core value of mine.

220

Like we're fallible, we're human,

we're all doing the best that we can.

221

And how do we do better?

222

So how do I be a part of that solution

to support people in doing better?

223

I can't be an expert on you.

224

I've lived in New Mexico since 2002.

225

I'm not an expert on New Mexican culture.

226

And it would be insulting

and rude to say that I was.

227

Cause we all have our glasses, right?

228

That we're seeing the world

through literally and figuratively.

229

So how can I get clear on what

is mine so I can put it aside.

230

I'm not trying to get rid of

my identity or anyone else's or

231

erasure or anything like that.

232

If I'm committed to supporting people

and their journey, how do I put my

233

experience aside so I can be present

so they can teach me who they are.

234

And that is such a core to what I do.

235

Natasha Moharter: How does my

lens influence how I'm showing up?

236

We're all the, the hero in our own story.

237

Vanya Garabedian: It's so important.

238

Like the storytelling, right?

239

Like my family history is storytelling.

240

We don't have a paper trail until my

grandparents made it to the United States.

241

So previous to that,

it's all storytelling.

242

And there's a lot of

bad people in my story.

243

Like there's a lot of bad characters.

244

And of course we're the ones who were, you

know, whatever, like we're in the right.

245

And I'm not saying that isn't

correct because genocide's a

246

part of my, my family history.

247

What I'm saying is the people who

harmed my family in my story were

248

also the heroes and their story.

249

I so appreciate that you said that.

250

And we were the bad guy.

251

And how can I, and it requires me

doing my own, I do a lot of, I do

252

a lot of trauma work for myself.

253

And how do I heal these, these wounds,

these generational experiences.

254

And so if somebody comes into

my office that represents

255

whatever, my "bad guy", right?

256

Like how can I get to a place where I

can create a space for them as well?

257

And again, I feel like if we're

going to be in this type of work

258

and I know everybody doesn't feel

this way, and I want to be clear,

259

people get to have boundaries.

260

They get to decide populations

that they work with.

261

For me, I have chosen,

I want to be a bridge.

262

That means I'm going to be working

with people who don't agree

263

with me, disagree, whatever.

264

I'm going to be working

with all walks of life.

265

So it becomes incredibly important for

those of us that choose that to be able

266

to create the same inclusive space for the

person that agrees exactly opposite of me.

267

The other thing that you made me think

of is like the decolonizing work, right?

268

Like we talked about a little bit

before we got on here, like that

269

idea of what is professionalism?

270

Well, how are we supposed to show up?

271

And I was nervous.

272

I mean, I told you I'm nervous being here.

273

I've never done anything like this.

274

So if I can just like name that, and who

told me I had to be perfect and upfront

275

and, you know, not make any mistakes.

276

It's not realistic.

277

We're all doing the best that we can.

278

If I have not had an opportunity to learn

to do something differently, why, why

279

am I going to be expected to do that?

280

And what makes me feel like I

can judge someone else for it?

281

Cause I don't know their story.

282

I don't know if they've

had an opportunity.

283

It can be controversial even in

the circles that I walk in because

284

there's people like wrong is

wrong, like right racism is wrong.

285

I agree a hundred and ten percent.

286

How do I see the human that is caught in

these beliefs so I can support that human?

287

And getting through

that to the other side.

288

And I've actually gotten to witness

that, which is really exciting.

289

There's nothing more exciting than having

a racist come to me for, for therapy.

290

And I get to support their transformation

and come to the other side.

291

Like that is like everything to me.

292

So for me to be up at the front or

teaching people and acting like, so

293

this is what we're going to do today.

294

And this is what's professional,

blah, blah, blah, blah.

295

I am doing people a disservice.

296

I'm not giving them any

permission to be human.

297

I'm not giving them any

permission to be fallible.

298

I'm unintentionally possibly creating

self judgment in people and it no longer

299

is a space where people feel like they

can speak up and say, say the hard

300

thing, which is, or challenge themselves,

which is really what I'm focused on.

301

Natasha Moharter: It's so neat to hear

just your values and what's important

302

to you and how you show up with

clients, the framework that you use

303

when you say, you know, I am choosing

to work with certain people that

304

might very heavily disagree with me.

305

And I'm okay with that because I've

done my own work and I'm willing to show

306

up and, like you said, be that bridge.

307

And it's definitely okay that

we choose and we have certain

308

boundaries on certain things.

309

There are people like that, if we only

stay in our own little groups, then how

310

does that information get communicated?

311

How can we humanize each other if

we are just othering all the time.

312

And I think about the topics that

you teach on that you train on.

313

All of that, I could see where that is

so incredibly important to have the value

314

system that you do and your willingness

to go into very uncomfortable spaces.

315

It's not fun when people disagree with us.

316

And yet to be able to say,

okay, but you're human.

317

And how can we go forward here?

318

Conflict doesn't have

to equal disconnection.

319

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

320

And like with that, it's funny.

321

Cause somebody reached out to me,

another clinician, a colleague who

322

was like, you teach the hard stuff.

323

You do the hard trainings.

324

And it's so funny.

325

Cause to me, it's not hard.

326

Is it challenging?

327

Yes.

328

It's almost like, I don't

know what else I would do.

329

And being aware that for a lot of

people, it's really hard to like look at.

330

And I mean, there's so many

reasons why it's not hard for me.

331

Uh, Not meaning that I know

it all or get it perfectly.

332

It's just, I don't know

how not to be challenged.

333

Is that a trauma response?

334

Is that this overdeveloped sense of

responsibility and all of these things?

335

And I don't even know if it matters as

much as like, what am I doing with it?

336

And if this is what I'm skillful at,

I'm, I'm good at being challenged.

337

I'm okay with that.

338

Like, let's do it.

339

You know, let's get in there.

340

I also want to be really clear.

341

People get to have their boundaries.

342

Like I know people who want to only work

with this population or that population.

343

I think that is just as important.

344

I think there's room

and space for all of it.

345

And we need this diverse, population

of providers to be able to show

346

up, and supportive people to walk

alongside of them and give people

347

spaces to do what they need to do.

348

Natasha Moharter: And it's really

neat how even just now you're talking

349

about how your history, how your story

influences the work that you do, the

350

trainings that you put together, the

topics that you're interested in.

351

And like you said, it's not,

unfamiliar to be challenged or to be

352

in that space of critical thinking.

353

Vanya Garabedian: This might sound

egotistical and feel free to edit it out.

354

But I was thinking like, I remember at

a young age, in my twenties, I'm like,

355

I just want to get paid to be myself.

356

How can I do that?

357

And it took me a lifetime.

358

I worked in mental and behavioral

health since like the age of like 27.

359

In like you know, those

front line staff positions.

360

So I remember thinking, like, how

do I just get paid to be myself?

361

Because I was not a happy

person in this world.

362

I was not somebody who wanted

to even be on this planet.

363

So if I was gonna be here, I needed

to find something that was meaningful,

364

that was in line with who I am.

365

And make a living at it.

366

Okay.

367

That's no small order.

368

I got my master's degree when I was 40

and worked my way through school, right.

369

And the goal has always been to

how do I get paid to be myself?

370

And I look around at the privileged,

beautiful life that I have today.

371

And I can honestly say I

get paid to be myself now.

372

And it took a minute, you

know, I'm like 53 now.

373

Like it took me a minute

to get here and I'm here.

374

And I am so grateful.

375

Like people used to tell me

before, they're like, wait till

376

you're grateful for all of it.

377

I'm like, all of it?

378

I am absolutely grateful for all of it.

379

It's like, oh, and I had

that inkling early on.

380

Like if I'm going to do something

and spend all my time doing that,

381

or a lot of my time, how much time

we spend at work earning income to

382

exist in this world, I gotta like it.

383

I gotta just be able to be me.

384

And that's been a really driving force

in all of it and for people who may

385

not be there yet like it is totally

possible to get paid to be yourself.

386

Natasha Moharter: I really think

that that's actually a huge piece

387

of hope that I see in finding

income outside of the therapy realm.

388

I have other interests or I have

other dreams or I have other expertise

389

and how can I share that as well?

390

And training for a lot of people,

can be kind of a natural avenue.

391

A lot of us are natural learners and a

lot of us like to share that knowledge.

392

And it can be so important to say, I need

to be me, I need to be representative

393

of who I am, my story, my history,

what I bring to the table, right?

394

And I don't have to be somebody else.

395

I heard this thing and it sticks

with me and it says, we don't have

396

to be experts to be contributors.

397

It can take some of the pressure

off of us to say, you have to

398

know everything and be infallible.

399

Thanks, anxiety, for

wanting me to do a good job.

400

And I'm going to show up and

I might mess up and I might

401

say things that sound weird.

402

Or I might be my awkward self

and somebody might not like that.

403

And I'm going to show up anyways

because there are going to be people

404

that this is going to resonate with.

405

Vanya Garabedian: I do experiences

where people think somehow

406

I'm special, I'm different.

407

And I don't see it that way.

408

I was not supposed to

graduate from high school.

409

I wasn't raised with awareness that I had

intelligence or capability of learning.

410

I was raised with what was reflected

back to me as being someone who

411

wasn't intelligent, someone who

isn't able to do big things.

412

I wasn't raised to go to college.

413

I am a person in long term recovery

from addiction and trauma, like

414

none of this has been easy.

415

This is like decades, decades of work

on self and willingness to be really

416

good at being uncomfortable, which I

think has to do with my history and

417

willingness to do the hard thing and

there's been a lot of privilege and

418

support, which comes back to that bridge,

and also adversity, which I believe

419

really puts me in this unique position.

420

I guess I just share that to bring it down

a notch when people, it's really easy to

421

look at someone and say, oh yeah, but.

422

And I used to do that.

423

And the realization that no man,

like we're all just figuring it out

424

as we go was really helpful for me.

425

It's hard.

426

I know I got the idea that life

wasn't supposed to be this hard, and

427

I'm not sure where I got it because

that hasn't been my experience.

428

I think that's an important

thing to kind of call out too.

429

Like, if I can do it, anyone can.

430

And whatever that do it is,

whatever that is for you.

431

It's going to be different for everyone.

432

Natasha Moharter: I think about

ADHD and women just recently being

433

recognized and some of how that

might influence internalized ableism.

434

And sometimes I think

about, overnight successes.

435

Because we're like, what happened?

436

You know, the universe must have gotten

together and like pushed them forward.

437

We don't see, that's the tip of the

iceberg, we don't see all the hard work.

438

Vanya Garabedian: I don't know

any overnight successes, even the

439

people that we're pretty sure are.

440

There's a lot of work that

isn't seen and it's so worth it.

441

And I guess I was fortunate cause

I was diagnosed at a young age.

442

Like when I was 12, I

was in middle school.

443

And they didn't really know what to do

with me, so I would get put back and forth

444

between gifted and special ed classes.

445

And, just feeling kind of like

an alien most of my life, which

446

is also a common human trait,

is to not feel like you belong.

447

It was helpful in some ways

and not helpful in other ways.

448

And for me personally, it created

a lot of shame because it wasn't

449

talked a lot about back in the day.

450

It wasn't out there like it is today.

451

Like, and I'm talking about the

seventies and eighties, like when

452

people were like, they're just like.

453

Special ed kid or something, you know,

there wasn't any sort of template

454

or role model to be like, Hey,

actually you have all these gifts.

455

Though my mom was amazing and recognizing

my artistic talents at a young age.

456

And she used to like really push me

in that direction to be an artist.

457

I have a strong creative streak

and I'm really grateful for her.

458

Like she used to tell people all the

time, Oh, this is my flower child.

459

She was just born in the wrong era

because I was so just different.

460

Like, you know, just

different from everyone.

461

I used to think I was born too late.

462

Now, as I'm seeing these

younger generations that are

463

phenomenal and amazing, I'm

like, maybe I was born too early.

464

Being different was not, it

wasn't helpful in any way.

465

It was really challenging.

466

Natasha Moharter: It brings

me to our next question.

467

You are an advocate for addressing

unintended harm within our care systems.

468

Can you share with us your

perspective on how focusing on our

469

own development can enhance the

quality of care we provide while

470

reducing burnout and vicarious trauma.

471

Vanya Garabedian: That's a big topic.

472

So I mean, this is debatable and people

argue with me about this, I don't think

473

there are any inherently bad people.

474

I don't believe that.

475

I think I've worked with

three sociopaths in my career.

476

It's not as common as people think.

477

And these people need some

special containers and handling.

478

Most people are not bad.

479

I just don't, I don't believe that.

480

So if I am walking around with

this idea that there are, then I

481

am going to act from that belief.

482

Like, like there's deeper things

that affect and influence who we

483

are and how we show up in the world.

484

And it's implicit.

485

If I am not willing, humble enough, or

however you want to word it, to take

486

a look at that, like the unpack your

knapsack thing, then I'm going to do

487

unintended harm all over the place.

488

Not on purpose and not because

I'm mean and not because I'm

489

evil, because I just don't know.

490

And I haven't taken the opportunity.

491

How many people come from this I really

want to help perspective without having an

492

opportunity to take a look at themselves,

heal their own wounds, get the care and

493

concern that they want to provide others.

494

How do you find that for yourself?

495

So you can actually show up and

walk alongside with someone versus

496

this hero thing that we can get

caught up in or somehow I don't,

497

I don't believe in experts.

498

I think we can have really extensive

knowledge in different areas.

499

I'll take that.

500

Like if we walk around in this idea,

especially in our system, Oh my

501

God, where what is admired, what is

celebrated are experts and people

502

who get to be seen as better than and

saviors and all of this kind of stuff.

503

I don't buy it.

504

And I see so much

unintended harm happening.

505

I'm not saying people don't know a lot

about their fields and that's really

506

important and education, whatever that

looks like, whether it's the traditional

507

or the life experience or whatever, all of

that is important and creates knowledge.

508

There's a saying like

hurt people, hurt people.

509

And I did this for a while.

510

I don't have any shame around it.

511

I was an IV drug user.

512

I used heroin and cocaine, until

I was 25 and I did unintended

513

harm, whether I meant to or not.

514

And when I got clean, when I had

the privilege of being able to be

515

supported to even find recovery,

which is a privilege for somebody to

516

even get to see us is a privilege.

517

For someone to get to

walk through the door.

518

Even in the early years, I was so angry

and I was so depressed and I was just,

519

so disappointed that I was still alive.

520

I don't mean to be dramatic, but I

didn't want to be on this planet.

521

And I really, I thought for a long

time that I was only harming myself

522

in my use and in my early recovery.

523

And that's not true.

524

Like it's, it's just not true.

525

I didn't learn that to later

through work that I've done.

526

And if I hadn't done that work, I might

still be an angry, resentful person.

527

And then you look at like the, when

people talk about wokeness and being

528

politically correct and all of that

kind of stuff, how do we normalize and

529

create spaces where there's opportunity

to just see people for who they are,

530

allow them to tell me who they are.

531

No one's going to do it perfectly.

532

We're going to make mistakes.

533

It's not about the missteps.

534

It's about recognizing when you

have a misstep so you can walk

535

through it and do it differently.

536

Not being afraid to take risks, because

I see that frequently with the white

537

people in my life and colleagues.

538

The fear of saying the wrong

thing keeps them quiet.

539

So then they do say something

offensive without realizing it.

540

Now it's going to happen.

541

How do I support myself and learning

how to navigate it to not just

542

decrease my suffering and hopefully not

contribute to the suffering of others.

543

Natasha Moharter: One of the things

that is really standing out is your

544

willingness to be vulnerable and open to

new information while also having done the

545

work to know what's important to you, to

know your boundaries to know, you know,

546

hey, I want to show up in certain ways to

be like we're talking about that bridge.

547

And that requires me to not

just immediately, push back on

548

people, or it requires me to kind

of show up in a different way.

549

Vanya Garabedian: And

I want to be clear too.

550

The people in the streets are important.

551

The people who are calling out injustice,

All of these roles are important and

552

necessary, and this is what I see as mine.

553

I can't do it all.

554

What I can do is what I feel passionate

about, what I feel like I'm effective at,

555

and I can put my little brick in the wall.

556

I have a lot of friends who are

very active in different social

557

justice scenes and hit the

streets and sometimes I do too.

558

And, some will be like, you know,

like, No, I'm not going to tolerate it.

559

And for them, their different

identities put them in a much

560

more vulnerable position than me.

561

So it's also recognizing where

do I sit with my privilege?

562

So, I'm not getting mad at my friend.

563

I'm actually in an alignment with them

and supporting them and understanding

564

they're in a different world than I am.

565

Like my friends who are part of the

LGBTQI community, my friends who

566

are darker skinned than me, they're

having a different experience.

567

And by no means, am I saying, put yourself

out there in these ways, I'm saying,

568

what do you have to do first to keep

yourself safe and participate in the way,

569

I like to say this a lot too, like with

my white friends, that's sustainable.

570

So you don't quit, slow

down without stopping.

571

Which again comes to like, my own

identity and my own privilege.

572

I don't want my, one of my trans

friends to go out there and make a

573

big statement unless they want to and

they feel support or whatever they get

574

to do whatever, what they want to do.

575

I know I can do that and not fear

that I'm going to be attacked

576

for being a trans person.

577

Natasha Moharter: We can have the

same sort of goals and that might look

578

different in how we actually do that.

579

So we discovered that we had similar

passions for trainings and getting

580

the word out about these opportunities

to facilitate provider growth.

581

While the Facebook group I facilitate

focuses more nationally, you've

582

created a growing community of

local professionals in New Mexico.

583

Can you share a little bit about how

that community came to be and what it's

584

like focusing on a local population?

585

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, so it's funny

because for me, it came down to me

586

and another colleague kind of being

a little overwhelmed and frustrated

587

with the local practice page.

588

The frustration was how do we sort through

all the noise, cause there's so much

589

participation there to find a workshop.

590

I'm really passionate about

like support local when you can.

591

Me and a colleague were talking,

were like, ah, so like, how do we

592

create a space that is just for CEUs,

for New Mexicans, by new Mexicans?

593

So it's a lot simpler to be able

to find what you're looking for if

594

you want to support local versus

one of the big companies out there.

595

New Mexico is a very unique state.

596

So a workshop that works on the

east coast or even in Texas or on

597

the West Coast, may not work here.

598

So being considerate and conscientious

of that and taking into account

599

all the different indigenous

people who live here and all the

600

different populations and identities.

601

It's a very LGBTQIA plus friendly state.

602

So I guess that's where it birthed

out of frustration, like, which is

603

kind of something that I do too.

604

I create the things that I wish I

had is a big part of it as well.

605

I wanted a place to be able to connect

with local providers doing CEUs.

606

I wanted a place to be able

to let people know about mine.

607

So that's really where it was birthed.

608

Natasha Moharter: You had mentioned

earlier that you like when

609

things make sense to you, right?

610

And even if you have to figure

out different avenues to make it

611

work, you are willing to do it.

612

And that group is growing.

613

That group really seems like it's a

very valuable resource in the community.

614

And for providers who actually

might also want to start a local CEU

615

focused virtual community, do you

have any suggestions on how to do

616

that or how to even go about starting?

617

Vanya Garabedian: Well, I was

really fortunate that the person

618

that was also frustrated, Antonia

Montoya, she is a local amazing

619

therapist here, knew how to do that.

620

So to be honest, I was

like, how do I do this?

621

And she's like, I've done this.

622

I know how to do this.

623

So then we paired up and I

learned with her while doing it.

624

So I guess I would recommend finding

somebody, if you don't know how, find

625

somebody who does, that's something else

that, is a skill that I have, like, I, if

626

I don't know how to do it, I go find the

person that's doing what I want to do.

627

And then I ask them how they did it.

628

Natasha Moharter: And one of the

things that I think is really neat

629

about some of the virtual spaces is

you can have multiple people support.

630

So whether that's through moderation,

through different admin roles, right?

631

And so it doesn't only have to be on you

if that's not your strength or your forte,

632

but your interest can very much fuel that.

633

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah.

634

And so it's, it's restricted.

635

We do our best to restrict it to

people who live in New Mexico.

636

We don't allow groups in there.

637

So we're staying away from the big

CEU group providers, national people.

638

And if you, if somebody is watching this

and you live in New Mexico and you want

639

to find CEUs that are by New Mexicans for

New Mexicans, or you want to get yours

640

out there, it's called CEUs New Mexico

- Lifelong Learners in Mental and Behavioral

641

Health on Facebook so please join us.

642

Natasha Moharter: You are a CEU

provider approved at the state

643

level by the New Mexico Counseling

and Therapy Practice Board.

644

Can you share a little bit about

what that process was like getting

645

approved at the state level and any

pros or cons that you've seen to

646

being approved at the state level?

647

Vanya Garabedian: I mean, the cons right

away is my CEUs that I provide may not be

648

accepted by boards outside of New Mexico.

649

I know some, like the New Mexico

board will accept CEUs from anything

650

that is accredited by a board.

651

So I don't know if there are

other States that do that.

652

So that's a con.

653

The pro is it was a lot less cumbersome

and less expensive, and it was

654

more accessible than the national

organizations, which I get frustrated

655

with because I'm not a fan of barriers.

656

And so, I am a social worker.

657

Social justice is my passion.

658

If anyone from the National Association

of Social Workers is listening, is

659

there a way to make the accessibility

to become a provider more accessible

660

for those of us that are just single

practice people, that don't necessarily

661

have the money and the resources to

do the things that they're requesting?

662

I haven't looked at it

lately, so maybe it's changed.

663

The last time I looked at

it, it was really expensive

664

and I haven't counted it out.

665

I just haven't figured out a way to do it.

666

And what I see happen is

these large corporations have

667

the resources to do that.

668

But the small, local, whether it's local

in where you are or anywhere else, really

669

struggle with getting that, accreditation.

670

So is there a way to ensure

quality, because I imagine

671

that's a large part of it, right?

672

While also creating bridges for

the small provider to also be

673

able to get that accreditation.

674

I haven't given up.

675

I just haven't found the

time yet to navigate it.

676

Being a small business, there

isn't a lot of extra income to

677

pay for people to do it for me.

678

So, or to pay the fees that

it was the last time I looked.

679

Which really makes me scratch my

head because social work is all

680

about social justice and breaking

down barriers and accessibility.

681

And here's the national board and

there's some really challenging barriers

682

and the accessibility isn't easy.

683

And I understand we're only seeing the

tip of their iceberg, so I just know

684

there's more to it that I don't know,

and I, I'm just a big believer in being

685

somebody who focuses on the solution.

686

I'm not saying I have the answer.

687

I'm just saying there's not

just one way to do things.

688

Cause I've had requests from, lawyers

and nurses and doctors who want to

689

do the trainings that I provide.

690

And because my CEUs aren't

accepted by their board.

691

They go elsewhere.

692

So I don't know, I don't know the

solution, but I'm open to finding it.

693

Like the New Mexico Counseling and

Therapy Practice Board is amazing.

694

It's as if they want to

support you in providing CEUs.

695

Like the fee is reasonable,

the process is reasonable.

696

And my, I want to support local as well.

697

So it's a both and I'm really

passionate about our dollars go further

698

when we are focused in our state

and being a small local business.

699

I want to support that as well.

700

Natasha Moharter: So you've mentioned

that you prefer in person trainings.

701

What about this format do you like most

and what advice would you give to a CEU

702

provider wanting to provide in person

trainings as opposed to a virtual setup?

703

Vanya Garabedian: For me, I'm a big

believer in the co regulation and the

704

communication of our nervous systems.

705

So I believe in the value of people

being in the same room and the

706

container that can be created in a

different way when we're in person.

707

Our nervous systems are all communicating,

we're co regulating, we're creating

708

more personal space where more people

take risks with their questions

709

and what they're willing to do.

710

Of course, a lot of that has

to do with how it's, you know,

711

how the container is created.

712

And honestly, I mean, that's

what I've always loved.

713

I did not know anything about Zoom.

714

I think maybe like a lot of

people pre COVID and when COVID

715

happened, I was like, I think this

will be about like nine months.

716

I was changing my practice.

717

I was in private practice.

718

I was moving everything into online.

719

I was, like a lot of

us, all hands on deck.

720

The number of people that I

was seeing were off the charts.

721

I don't recommend it.

722

The amount of emotional and

physical labor that my practice

723

took increased exponentially.

724

So there was a lack of time.

725

I'm seeing people online.

726

And I thought it wasn't going

to be as long as it was.

727

So now what's interesting is this past

year, I did my first online workshop.

728

And I've been contracted with a couple of

places to do online workshops for them.

729

And I also do therapy online

and I've done trainings online.

730

So, now I've had this experience of like,

Oh, we can still create a container.

731

It's different.

732

I'm not going to lie.

733

It is different.

734

And I can also reach more people.

735

So I've got a lot of learning to

do a lot of catching up to do.

736

I got contracted with

another great local business.

737

If I can give a shout out, Envive, it's

two women own it and they really focus

738

on helping local, small business owners

develop their businesses and they support

739

the local community, and addiction and

recovery community in so many ways.

740

So they're amazing.

741

They contracted me to

do a workshop with them.

742

And they had this team of people

that is amazing that supported it.

743

So I just got to show up and do my thing.

744

And that was like, just such a

beautiful, different experience

745

than when I just do them on my own.

746

I still prefer in person.

747

And I also like, like, I have

food, I have coffee, I have tea.

748

Like, I like to be able to create

this supportive environment

749

where I do what I wish I had.

750

So whenever you go to a workshop and it's

like, really, there's not even water.

751

Like what?

752

So I provide all these things that

I couldn't if they were at home.

753

I like to be hospitable,

I guess is maybe the term.

754

Natasha Moharter: Think it's really

neat that you keep coming back to

755

that, that you're creating the things

that you wish that you had or that

756

you weren't able to experience.

757

Coming back to your point of community,

and being in relationship and being

758

able to support and collaborate and

do really cool things because of it.

759

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, I'm huge on

community and that's another thing

760

where it's like I need community, so

I do what I can to create community.

761

Natasha Moharter: Along with your

CEU trainings, you've created

762

an excellent resource called

the Ethical Provider Collective.

763

It's a monthly drop in Zoom session

aimed at reducing burnout, addressing

764

ethical dilemmas, and fostering

meaningful connection among fellow

765

providers with a focus on ethics,

supervision, and cultural humility.

766

It's free to attend, but you also

offer one CEU per meeting, at a

767

rate of $25 plus state tax, if

anybody is interested in that.

768

Can you share a little bit more about

the Ethical Provider Collective with us?

769

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, absolutely.

770

Thank you for asking about it.

771

So what it was birthed out of

was people reaching out to me

772

for supervision and consultation.

773

And I just don't have the time to

meet with everybody that was asking.

774

And also seeing providers struggling

with being able to have access to

775

groups and communities where they

could get some extra support and

776

supervision that was affordable, because

it can cost money if you don't have

777

supervision at your place of employment.

778

It serves so many purposes.

779

So with my own workshops oftentimes

people have follow up questions or

780

they want to talk about something more.

781

So now, if that's the case, you can

drop in once a month and we can talk

782

about whatever follow up questions

that you have from one of my workshops.

783

If you haven't been to my workshops,

you can come in and get support and

784

get to know other providers as well.

785

And I guess my belief that it decreases

burnout is the more supported we

786

are in the community, the less alone

we feel, the less we're burnt out

787

and just feel so isolated, which

it can really feel that way, even

788

particularly in private practice.

789

So that's what brought it about was

my desire to be able to be accessible

790

to people who have questions after

my workshops, accessible supervision

791

for people who might not even

know me to be able to drop in and

792

also benefit from a community.

793

Natasha Moharter: You're creating

different parts of your sales funnel.

794

So you're allowing people to get to know

you a little bit better and potentially

795

take a training from you afterward.

796

When women have access to resource and

money and finance, we really do tend

797

to invest it back in our communities.

798

And we can vote with our dollars.

799

This is one of the reasons that I see a

lot of clinicians wanting to provide CEUs.

800

And yet we're in a field that we, you

know, we don't want to feel salesy,

801

or we don't want to feel pushy and,

yet, being seen and having a pay me

802

now button can be really important to

continuing our work, to reducing burnout.

803

So it's just neat to kind of see that

from the business side, what you've

804

naturally created and you've brought

into this, that is working for you.

805

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah.

806

Thank you.

807

And I can't say that isn't

part of the hope, right?

808

That people come, they meet me, they want

to take my workshops and they sign up.

809

That would be excellent.

810

And it's so challenging.

811

This is one of my struggles that I've

been working on too, is, is that business

812

side, the advertising, the charging,

like my husband jokes with me and he's

813

like, you give away too much for free.

814

And it's challenging for

me to find that balance.

815

Because my inclination is if I can

do it, I'm just going to do it.

816

And if something comes out of it, great.

817

If nothing comes out of it, okay.

818

And I hope something comes out of it.

819

I'm not immune from the capitalistic

system that I live in and needing to

820

make a living and keep all this going.

821

And it's, it's a really

challenging point for me.

822

I'm experimenting with this

social justice model the green

823

bottle method and how I charge.

824

So there's three different categories

that you get to choose which one you

825

fall into for my actual workshops.

826

Trying to find ways that I feel

good about in line with my values

827

and my belief in access and make

money is a learning curve for me.

828

These are the things that I'm kind

of working on is like using a social

829

justice model for a sliding scale,

not giving away all the seats, which

830

is something that I've done before.

831

Finding those balances is challenging.

832

And I was just actually thinking about

this this morning when I was getting

833

ready to come to work that like I've

got, I give spots away in my workshop.

834

So I will give myself the boundary of only

having one scholarship spot for the in

835

person ones and two for the ones online.

836

Let's see if I can

stick with it this year.

837

Natasha Moharter: I so appreciate

your authenticity and your genuineness

838

and your realness with that.

839

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

840

Right.

841

And I'm getting more effective at it.

842

Like I'm more willing to ask for

more when I see how long it takes

843

me to create a workshop and, that's

something people should know.

844

It's like the amount of time and energy

that goes on the backend to produce

845

like a three hour or one day or two day.

846

It takes a minute to make a profit.

847

Right.

848

So, I think it's like a word of

caution to people who want to do this.

849

Just know that there's

a lot of front end work.

850

And, the funding piece is

something that I struggle with.

851

Cause again, I see these larger Practices

able to have the resources and time to put

852

into getting funding that I don't have.

853

I haven't figured out how

to also be able to do that.

854

Or when I talk to different funding

sources in New Mexico they're going

855

with this person or these people or this

agency that has well known and really

856

popular and everybody knows who they are.

857

Like, I totally get it and

how I'm learning, how do I

858

also get to go in that way.

859

And one of the beautiful things about it

is when I'm seeing these agencies that

860

get the funding, I know them like they

started as one or two people businesses.

861

So that tells me if they figure

this out, there is a way.

862

I just haven't figured out my way yet.

863

So that's hopeful.

864

Natasha Moharter: The mission and

the values that surround the creation

865

of this podcast was let's spotlight

some of the people that are doing

866

incredible work that maybe we are

kind of one, two person businesses.

867

But we have goals.

868

We're on our way somewhere.

869

So many of us clinicians are

trying to figure out, how do we

870

add additional income streams?

871

What does it look like for us to market?

872

How do we learn the

business aspect of this?

873

Because that is very different

than providing therapy.

874

Vanya Garabedian: When I look back at the

first workshops I created, like at the

875

time I was like, Oh, this is pretty good.

876

And now I'm like, Ooh, like, so

there's a natural process that I have

877

learned and become more effective

and skillful at while doing it.

878

So it's like not waiting until

I have it figured out to do it.

879

It's like do it and I'll

figure it out as I go.

880

And I think that's part of the

privilege of ADD is like, I jump and

881

I land somewhere and I figure it out.

882

Doesn't always work out.

883

What does happen is I learn more skills

and I keep progressing and now when I

884

look at a workshop that I present today

versus one that I did like seven or eight

885

years ago, it's like, okay, I can see

how far and how and like my learning.

886

I think that's important to like if we

wait until we get it right or perfectly,

887

we're not going to get anything done.

888

Natasha Moharter: You don't have to get

it right, you just have to get it going.

889

Vanya Garabedian: Yes, the change

and growth happens in the 1%.

890

It's not this zero to a

hundred that, sometimes we

891

mistake it for or people want.

892

It's just 1% of change a day, and

that comes from Atomic Habits.

893

Just to put that out

there, that's a great book.

894

But like he talks about that 1% just

make a 1% change in the day and that's

895

going to change your entire trajectory.

896

And it's scary and it's

hard and it's not easy.

897

So just know that if it's scary,

hard and not easy, it probably

898

means you're doing it right.

899

Natasha Moharter: In OCD and anxiety

treatment, so much of what I work with my

900

clients on is embracing the uncertainty.

901

We don't know how it will happen.

902

And yet if it's in alignment with our

values and it's something that we want

903

to pursue, we're gonna do it scared,

and that might not be our favorite.

904

We might have to accept that we feel

really icky when we're doing this.

905

And yet we can still push forward

and it can get easier over time.

906

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah that was the other

thing I wanted to mention, the values.

907

It's like suffering comes from

living against our values.

908

So if somebody's watching this or

listening to this and you're not

909

maybe certain what your values are,

like there are places to participate

910

in figuring that out for yourself.

911

Like when I was putting a needle in

my arm, that was going against all

912

my values and my suffering was great.

913

So living in accordance to our values

makes the hard things a little bit

914

more like you're willing to do it.

915

And our suffering decreases.

916

Can I tolerate the pain of the moment,

the discomfort of the moment in

917

exchange for a decrease in my suffering?

918

Or am I going to not do whatever

I have to do to avoid that pain

919

and it increases my suffering?

920

And it's a skill.

921

It's a skill like anything else.

922

So if people don't know how

to do it, there's no shame.

923

It's just, you haven't had an opportunity.

924

So how do you learn how to tolerate

discomfort is such a huge part of it.

925

And Certainty Principle.

926

Love it.

927

I'm a certified brain spotting therapist.

928

I'm really passionate about it.

929

And I'm going to be starting

my CIT, which is a different

930

process of training in that area.

931

And it's all based on the

uncertainty principle.

932

Natasha Moharter: Like you said, even

CEU trainings can take some time to

933

get through from beginning to the end,

to marketing, to putting it out there.

934

And so how do you keep showing up?

935

Even when it's scary.

936

Vanya Garabedian: Even

when you get a bad review.

937

You're not sure you know what you're

doing or it's even successful.

938

Are you giving half the

seats away for free?

939

Like, it's like, you just,

if it's something that's

940

important, you just keep going.

941

And if it's not that important, let it

go and go try something else you know?

942

Natasha Moharter: And you

bring up a good point.

943

We will get bad reviews.

944

We will, they're out there statistically.

945

They're gonna happen.

946

Somebody's not gonna like something.

947

And, it's okay, right?

948

It does, it hurts.

949

It stings a little bit.

950

That's where support comes in, community.

951

It's funny, my most recent training that I

did, one of the reviews was, the training

952

materials don't look as professional.

953

I'm like, I've never

gotten this one before.

954

So I look back and I'm

like, I can see that.

955

I can see where I can improve here.

956

Okay.

957

And I have a lot of hope because

if you look at Facebook's original

958

page that they first created.

959

It does not look good.

960

It is.

961

It's really basic and plain.

962

And I'm like, if Facebook

can do it, why not us?

963

Thank you very much.

964

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

965

And look back at one of your first

trainings and it'll give you like

966

a little bit of like, Oh, wow.

967

Okay.

968

I've come a far way.

969

Yeah.

970

And those reviews are like, I look

at all of them and like, sometimes

971

they're really valid points.

972

I'm like, Oh, wow.

973

Man, thank you.

974

I'm going to take this into consideration.

975

And sometimes it's, you know, I see

that I'm just not your cup of tea and

976

I'm not going to change how I do this.

977

Natasha Moharter: That

is so important as well.

978

Being able to not just take it at, you

know, because you've said this now I'm

979

going to, I have to change everything.

980

Because there are going to be

people that just don't agree with

981

us, and that's okay, that's okay.

982

Not comfortable.

983

I don't have to like it, I

can have feelings about it.

984

And we can still show up for our

next training, because somebody

985

out there needs to hear it.

986

Vanya Garabedian: It's like getting

comfortable with the uncomfortability.

987

Natasha Moharter: Absolutely.

988

And like you said, it's a skill.

989

It's such an honor to have you here.

990

This is newer for both of

us but here we are doing it.

991

Showing up despite the discomfort

and being willing to be seen, so

992

that way we can make a bigger impact.

993

Vanya Garabedian: And I just want to say

thank you because what an opportunity.

994

Hopefully people learn more about

me and see what I'm doing and

995

want to like come and hang out

either at the Ethical Provider

996

Collective or one of my workshops.

997

So I'm really super appreciative.

998

Natasha Moharter: So where

can we find you online?

999

Vanya Garabedian: So my website

is IntentionalPathCounseling.Com

00:53:34,771 --> 00:53:36,891

Natasha Moharter: For those of you

who are interested in learning more

00:53:36,911 --> 00:53:41,241

about Vanya, her CEU trainings, and

the Ethical Provider Collective, we

00:53:41,241 --> 00:53:45,711

will link in the description below to

all of her resources, to her website.

00:53:45,711 --> 00:53:50,371

So again, Vanya, thank you so much

for your time and for being here and

00:53:50,381 --> 00:53:55,371

embracing discomfort with me and doing

something new and also being seen.

00:53:55,816 --> 00:53:58,226

I hope that this brings

lots of success for you.

00:53:58,226 --> 00:53:59,206

Vanya Garabedian: Thank you so much.

00:53:59,216 --> 00:54:01,346

What a privilege and honor for me as well.