The Terminator (1984)

Marc’s Pick

PART 1 – The Nutshell – If you haven’t seen it

A spoiler-free breakdown of The Terminator designed to help you decide if this 80s sci-fi landmark is actually your kind of film and worth your time.

An exploration of how the movie balances action, tension and emotional stakes, without assuming you already love the franchise or its iconic moments.

We'll give other movie comparisons, tone, style and feel.

By the end of Part 1, you will have made a decision!

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PART 2 – The Unboxing – If you’ve seen it

What Did You Miss?

The ideas working beneath the surface, from the mechanics of its time line to the way tension is built through framing, sound design and perspective.

Moments that gain new weight on reflection, including how the film uses contrast, repetition and visual storytelling to deepen character and raise stakes.

A closer look at how it handles themes of fate, technology, inevitability and human connection and why those themes land differently now than they did on release.

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Paul’s Facts of the Day

How the film was made on a tight budget using guerrilla style production methods

The early career circumstances that shaped director James Cameron’s approach

Casting stories and near misses that could have changed the film entirely

Practical effects craftsmanship that still sparks debate decades later

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Hate It or Rate It?

Marc, Darren & Paul submit their scores and The Terminator takes its place in the Legend League.

Does it still deserve its iconic status?

Or does it land differently today?

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PART 3 – Listener Lounge

Your questions, your comments and your shout-outs, the Question of the Week and of course… the reveal of next week’s movie.

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Things mentioned in the episode:

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Hosts

Marc Farquhar

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcfarquhar

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/themarcfarquhar

Darren Horne

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thedarrenhorne

Paul Day

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pauldaylive23

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Music

Main Theme: BreakzStudios

Music Bed: ProtoFunk – Kevin MacLeod

(All music licensed under Creative Commons)

This is a genuine love story.

It's really freaking sweet in places between all the violence and the death.

Spoilers, mind you, it's called the Terminator.

I guess they should expect a bit of that, right?

Exactly right.

These humans have got to go.

They are slowing us down.

I feel like ChatGPT is thinking that right now.

Yeah.

Hello and welcome to Movies in a Nutshell with me, Marc Farquhar, myself, Darren

Horne, and I, Paul Day.

Here's why you should tune in every week.

We help you make better movie choices on films you haven't seen with quick spoiler free breakdowns to help you decide if they're your kind of movie.

And we help you get more from the movies you have seen with things you missed and details you probably didn't notice.

Plus there's movie facts, trivia and behind the scenes stories.

There's also your chance to choose the movie.

So grab some popcorn and let's crack open this week's movie.

Welcome back, gentlemen.

Welcome back, listeners.

Yo, yo, yo.

We are here.

So before we start, we just want to say that the march listener choice is open.

It's open now.

It's open right now.

So they need to get on a vote.

They can email, they can message the show.

We'll put a thing on the socials where you can a text box.

You can type in whatever movie you want to request, get your movie choice in and we'll do the wheel.

We enjoy the Wheel at the end

of your episode this month.

You don't find out until the third episode of the month what else we got to tell people.

We're going to the cinema.

Yeah, that's cool.

Cinema trip.

Friday, March 19th, it's opening night and see project Hail Mary.

That's Ryan Gosselin.

Yes.

Yeah, it is.

Know much about it?

As always for me, but I'm up for going to see it.

There's a bit of a buzz about it.

We can either go and see the 5 o' clock screen and go for social after, but I think it's running time's like 2 hours 40 or something.

So it'll either be we'll do the cinema and then the social or we'll do the social and then the cinema.

Because if it's five o', clock, some people might struggle to finish work and get there for five o' clock on a Friday.

We'll have the confirmed details in next week's episode.

Okay, so here we are in the nutshell.

In part one, we have the nutshell where we break movies down.

Spoiler free.

To help you decide if this movie is your kind of film and if it's worth your time.

And the movie in question is the Terminator.

How do we break the Terminator down?

For someone who these rare few people who have not seen the Terminator, it's

about love and survival.

It is a love story and it's cute and I believe in love.

Once again, for 44 more minutes.

What would you say, Paul?

It's also about AI and the future and destiny.

Dangers of technology, dangers of it, the potential pitfalls of it and what might happen.

I'm trying to stay away from spoilers and what might.

Might happen.

Yeah, I'll just.

I think on the surface it looks like an 80s classic, 80s action movie, but really it's a horror film dressed as sci fi.

It is exactly right.

Because if the Terminator had a machete instead of weaponry instead of guns, it would be a horror movie.

It would literally be a horror movie.

Reese's character says something that, you know, it can't be reasoned with.

It's going to keep coming.

You can't stop it.

That's a slasher movie, but he's got guns instead.

So it's not a horror movie.

You know, it's got flash forwards to the future and the back and forth sort of time lapse, jump jumping thing going on.

I love the description dark Technoir because they go to a nightclub that's called Technoir as well.

Right.

And I was like, technoir.

That's a.

That's cool.

I had.

This is Halloween meets Blade Runner.

Oh, that's pretty good.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

I haven't got meats, but I wrote down ones that kind of give me the vibes of.

One was Blade Runner, Highlander randomly.

Because that's kind of another 80s classic.

Just the way it's filmed.

I'll allow it

the way it's filming.

So, yeah, Predator 2 because obviously that's in the city.

Not seen it running around.

And lots of the same cast.

Lots of the same cast.

I thought I had a bit of Die Hard somewhere in there.

Oh, and Live, Die, Repeat if you wanted.

Oh, Edge of Tomorrow, whatever you call it.

Don't get me started.

I know, I know.

I wrote it down thinking Darren's gonna

have a problem with it.

What is it actually called, that film?

It's called Edge of Tomorrow, but it should have been called Live, Die, Repeat and there would have been way more popular, marketed better.

But that's a different movie.

We're talking about Terminator.

Yeah.

But I felt there was a flash of that in some way without being like a war in the future and like.

Well, in terms of when you would watch this, this is a great Friday night movie, Saturday night movie.

I think you could watch this with, like, your mates.

It could be like a guy night where you're kind of drinking beers and having pizza.

I also think this does work as a date movie.

Like, I wasn't being sarcastic at the beginning, being like, this is a romance.

This is a love story.

This is a genuine love story.

It's really freaking sweet.

In places between all the violence and

the death spoilers, mind you, it's called the Terminator.

I guess they should expect a bit of that.

Exactly.

Right?

I mean, anyone who.

I think anyone listening to this who hasn't seen it roughly knows what it's about.

It's also one of those things where it's the start of a franchise.

And I think a lot of the time franchises can move so far away from the thing that launched it that you can make assumptions about a movie in the same way that you would do, say, with Rambo.

And.

Whereas the original Rambo is a really heartfelt, powerful, emotional film.

And it's like, why is Rocky the first Rocky?

And, you know, I remember talking to people who hadn't seen Rocky.

They're like, let me guess, he wins at the end.

You need to go watch the movie.

Yeah.

We're giving anything away, but what's the thing?

Yeah, yeah.

So I think with.

With Terminator, if you haven't seen it, but you've seen, like, Terminator 2 or.

Oh, you've seen bits of these.

Yeah, yeah.

Any of those awful sequels past Terminator 2 that I don't know the difference between them.

Salvation and other ones.

I thought Terminator 3 was okay.

So it goes Terminator 3, then it goes Salvation.

Then it does Genesis.

Yes.

Then it does Dark Fate, let's not speak of.

Because that's the one that even I'm like, really?

Really?

Well, it's worth going back to where it all started.

Does this movie ask any questions?

Yeah, it's the whole.

What is the danger of technology and AI where we are right now?

I think it's.

Is the future inevitable when it comes

to AI and also it's kind of that idea of would you kill baby Hitler?

Because it's about how going through time and killing a younger version of someone

is our fate, what we make of it, or is it already decided for us?

I can hear the THEME TUNE as

we're discussing things, it's also interesting with the years, isn't it?

I wrote that.

2029, well, that's pretty close.

Yeah.

Us.

It's here.

Coming here to fight machines rather than record a podcast.

And.

And these.

Is it called Boston Dynamics?

Have you seen videos by, like, Boston Dynamics?

And they've got like.

Oh, they're the company that make robotics stuff, don't they?

Yeah, like armored dogs and police.

Yeah.

Robocop type stuff.

Yeah, yeah, it kind of exists.

And it's like, I saw an article recently that in the next, like, 10 years, we're going to have robot police in the UK.

I saw that one and it looked a bit terrifying.

Yeah.

Because I thought, here it is, it's the Terminator.

So the premise is, what happens if we hand too much control over to technology?

Yeah.

And then, I mean, it now happens in a lot of movies where, you know, any intelligent artificial intelligence gets to the point where humans are shit.

You realize how obsolete we are, you

know, like, we need to get rid.

These humans have got to go.

They are slowing us down.

I feel like Chat GPT is thinking that right now.

Yeah.

Like, really?

If you ask me another dumb question, some stupid questions.

Yeah.

It's funny how many people I know, including myself, who's very polite to AI.

I am, in case.

That's brilliant.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Alexa.

She said, you're welcome the other day.

It's got a shit out of me.

She doesn't usually say that.

Well, there you go.

That's.

That's it.

It's evolving.

It's evolving.

The other bit I was going to say is this is very much the.

The influencer of a lot of films that came after it.

So there'll have been films before this.

You'll probably know more about them.

There was nothing like this.

Okay.

That's what I was thinking.

Is this very much what I'm thinking?

This is like a benchmark.

A benchmark that set off.

Absolutely.

I mean, there was stuff about robots and stuff, but it was B movie nonsense.

It was what didn't have the intelligence.

This is a sophisticated depiction of.

Yeah.

Because even now, when we talk about time travel, we tend to gravitate towards.

And maybe this is our age, but it feels like Back to the Future was the lighter version of time travel and this was the darker version of time travel, and these are still the ones we refer to to this day.

Being ahead of its years.

Yeah.

This is a no brainer.

If you haven't watched it.

I pause the podcast now and go watch it.

You will.

Yeah.

You'll be.

You'll get something out of it.

You should go watch it culturally just so you can be part of society.

There's a reason why you've heard of it and you know roughly what it is even though you've not seen it.

Right?

Yeah.

And if you think it's just Arnie saying his famous line, then you're missing the whole thing.

Because the point of the line became so famous is because the scene that it's in.

Yeah, because I always think that it's like, why did that become so famous?

And then I watched the film going, ah, it's the scene.

It's the way there's multiple lines.

We've talked about this before, that some movies become iconic because of the dialogue, but not all of them.

And they were never planned.

No, you can't plan that.

It's like a song that's a hit.

You just can't plan it.

Yeah.

Okay.

I think we've done good job there.

I think that cracks open the nutshell without giving you too many spoilers around it.

It's a high tech AI love story.

Perfect.

Okay, let's move on to part two, which is the unboxing in part two, which we like to call the unboxing Spoiler territory ahead.

If you haven't seen the Terminator, we do recommend you go and watch it now and then rejoin us because there will be plenty of spoilers from this point forward.

So in the unboxing we have what did you miss?

Where we'll reveal things you may have missed.

Even if you've seen the movie many times, Paul has his formidable facts of the day.

And then we round off with hate it or rate it, where we each give our brief opinion score out of 10, and we see where it lands on the Legend League.

So what did you miss?

I would like to start this time and I ask a question about the timeline.

Something that occurred to me which I never, never thought.

Question the timeline.

I started to think, okay, so the.

I wrote some notes on this.

The revelation that the Terminator is the key that makes the whole story either genius or a headache.

So how.

It's got a loop, hasn't it, about him going back.

That's right.

To kill.

So John Connor sends basically his dad back.

So.

But it's one possible future from your point of view, from Sarah Connor's point of view.

Okay, that's one of the things Kyle says to her.

Okay, yeah, so I've written.

In the future, John Connor leads a resistance.

John Connor sends Kyle Reese back to protect her and Kyle and Sarah conceived John.

John grows up to be laid of resistance, repeat forever.

So the real question is, how did it begin in the first place?

And the short answer is it didn't.

I've looked it up.

This film operates what's called a Predestination paradox, which I'd never heard of.

A closed causal loop where cause and effect create each other.

There is no first version of events.

The future creates past, which creates the future.

Weirdly, I don't know why we talk about Red Dwarf so much on this podcast, but the same thing I think happens in Red Dwarf in that Lister becomes his own father.

That's right.

And so he's caught in a loop where humanity can never stop existing because he's continuously in a loop.

And you've also reminded me of another film that probably fits in, which is a bit more unknown, called Predestination with Ethan Hawke.

And that deals with a similar sort

of just a shout out for Ethan Hawke being one of the good guys so far.

Right.

So any thoughts on the time loop?

Did you realize that?

Did you know that?

Is it a known factor or.

I just.

It's one of those that you throw in as a joke because it does boggle the brain as to is chicken or the egg.

Yeah.

But I also think that this movie doesn't try and address it.

Like he says, you know, I don't know.

And there's a point where they're talking about machines.

He's like.

And Reese is like, I don't know.

I didn't fucking build it.

And I'm like, just try to fight them.

It allows you to see the time paradox through the eyes of Rhys, played by Michael Bean.

Is it?

I always just say Bean.

Bane.

Michael Bain.

I heard it pronounced.

I always get them wrong.

So I'm not the right person.

I used to say BN.

Yeah, me too.

I was watching some stuff and it was always Michael Bain.

I saw him on some podcast or thing and it said, welcome, welcome, Michael

Bayne, absolutely great actor.

Sadly, I don't think I see a claim he should also as Hicks in Aliens.

And also.

Is it Johnny Ringo in Tombstone?

Yes, whatever I've seen him in, he's always great.

Except Navy seals.

I haven't seen that.

So what do we miss in the

terminator Darren, you know, I can talk about good filmmaking.

It doesn't necessarily say, mean I'm going to like the movie at the end.

But there's some really mature filmmaking decisions in this.

And the reason that's worth mentioning is, you know, James Cameron is the Titanic director.

He's the Avatar.

He's a big name now.

Was not a big name back then.

Like he had just come.

He came out of the Corman school, like Roger Corman.

And Roger Corman was a guy who made loads of like really, really low budget movies.

But loads of people got their start there.

Like Jack Nicholson would be like an actor, but then they'd give him because you had to do multiple jobs because it was so low budget.

Like Jack Nicholson probably directed some stuff as well.

Like you learned your craft and James Cameron came out of that.

So I think he was a director

on Piranha 2 or something.

Yeah, he maybe even got fired by that.

It was a weird time where there was lots of drugs involved.

I read, I read that's when he came up with the idea for this when he was doing Prada too.

So, you know, at the time, I think James Cameron was sleeping on someone else's couch like his mom was sending him food stamps.

Like this was his break or make kind of chance.

But there's some really, really sophisticated filmmaking in it and storytelling.

I mean, even on a simple level, if you go back to.

If you had never seen this before, you know, it opens, I think clunkily with the future kind of.

Well, I think you shouldn't have done that.

I wish it had started just with the dump truck because it's.

Because I think that's a co opening.

And then Arnie appears in Lightning and we don't know that's the Terminator.

So we're just, okay, what's going on?

I mean, he's hot as hell in that movie.

And that's also like it wasn't.

We didn't know who Arnie was back then.

Like he'd probably been in Hercules of New York or Conan.

Conan.

Conan, yeah.

These aren't big movies.

Everyone just knew was a bodybuilder.

Yeah.

So now it's like, what?

Which is great.

And then Michael B.

Turns up and apparently that was just a stunt guy just rolled off of a scaffold onto real concrete and slammed in.

But we don't know who the good guy or bad guy is.

But what's interesting is you get this parallel narrative.

So you've got the Terminator going through, you know, the city getting Clothes, getting weapons, hunting Sarah Connor.

And then you got Michael Bien as Reese doing the same thing.

He's like, okay, I need to get some clothes.

I need to get guns.

I'm gonna go through the city.

And that's the tension, isn't it?

Because you don't know who's gonna get there first.

And then you've got the Sarah Connors being killed, and there's this great mix between.

You've got all this tension, and it's fast, right?

Like Reese, he lands and he's like.

Steals the homeless person's clothes.

Then he's running and the police are after him.

And it's like, we're in the.

It started.

We're in this movie.

Yeah.

And then it cuts to this pastel.

Sarah Connor driving a motorbike with a song.

Oh, she has no idea.

She's like, oh, isn't life nice and pretty and stuff?

But these two guys are like sharks moving towards her.

And there's this really great suspense.

And it's also called a unrestricted narrative, which is when you can see more than the characters know.

So a restrictive narrative is where you just follow it through the character's point of view.

You only see what is revealed.

What is revealed to them.

Exactly.

Which is a good way of getting shock, because, like, someone can turn up.

You're like, oh, I didn't know they were coming.

Whereas on this, you've got the unrestricted narrative.

And we know the term, like, particularly in the nightclub scene.

That's the ultimate tension, isn't it?

Because we know, but she doesn't know.

That's the climax of act one, isn't it?

Exactly.

And it's like, oh, it's on.

Like, we've worked out the pieces and it's on.

Something's got to give here.

And it's Hitchcock.

Hitchcock used to talk about the bomb under the table, which is funny because

I've not heard of that.

Sometimes my students Google it and it gets flagged up.

We have this whole safeguarding thing.

If you're Googling it now, get ready for.

Exactly.

And I've had meetings about it.

Why are your students Googling this?

But he would say that, you know, if the audience know there's a bomb under the table, that's suspense.

Because it's like, what.

What's going to happen if they don't know it's under the table?

And then it goes off?

It's shock.

And that's.

And I feel that's what's missing in a lot of the modern films now.

They either give it to you too much on a plate because they're obviously trying to give it to the Netflix crowd who were texting on the phone.

So there isn't that suspense, or it's the other way where they don't tell you to the very end and they're like, it hasn't got that tension in the middle that nightclub scenes.

Like you say, a perfect example of we know what's going on.

That much packed into Act 1 of a film is.

Yeah, it's amazing.

And it's also.

It's quite.

It's not advanced filmmaking, but it kind of is for a new filmmaker time in terms of.

It's really subjective.

So there's a load of slow motion in there.

And then you obviously got the nightclub sound, but then it'll dip and then things become slow motion and then it's.

There's this weird Terminator noise instead.

You see the world through the character's eyes instead of how it would actually be, which is.

I know it seems like a dumb thing to say, but so many times filmmakers are trying to recreate reality and they don't realize you can make it really, really subjective.

So, yeah, that scene alone is amazing.

But then also all the supporting characters have a three dimensional, which is really rare for like.

What do you mean?

Okay, so let me think.

The roommate can't remember her name.

Okay, she's not just the roommate.

She's this sexually active woman who's dating this guy who's quite funny.

She's always obsessed with.

She's listening to her headphones even when she's like, having sex or washing up or doing whatever.

And then she leaves this really funny.

She's got an answer phone message where she says, like, hey, just kidding, it's actually a machine, but leave a message.

Machines need love too.

Which is kind of a funny thing to have.

I don't think I spotted that till this time.

And I'm like, ah, considering what's going on, it's ironic.

And then you jump to say the police.

Like, the psychologist is so irritated.

Cause he keeps yawning like there's no reason in the script to have.

The psychologist is yawning and lazy.

But he makes you hate him so much just by like, oh, oh, yeah.

And then this guy's a psychopath and we're gonna do this.

And then you've got.

Who's the guy who plays Bishop?

It's Lance Henriksen, isn't it?

Lance Henriksen keeps trying to tell anecdotes and his boss keeps cutting him off at one point, the boss, like the Captain, I guess, whatever.

Paul Winfield or something he's called.

He's like, have you got a cigarette?

He's like, yeah, here's a cigarette.

And he's already got one in his hand.

So do you mean it's like 3D?

Means that they're not background characters.

Yeah.

They have a role and a color

and they feel like.

It's like.

I sometimes talk about this with, like, Red dead redemption or GTA 5 or whatever the other.

Like the NPCs in games.

In those games have entire lives.

Like, you can follow someone from a house into work and they're all living their lives.

And this is what this feels like.

It feels like all of these people have multiple lives because we barely get.

These guys have hardly any screen time.

And yet I feel really bad for them when the police.

When the police station gets.

Gets attacked, you know, because I'm like,

you feel like you know him at that point.

I do feel like you know him.

You know, the other bit I wrote down was, it's a masterpiece of show Don't Tell, which we've talked about before on the podcast.

Less is more.

Less is more.

And it's one of those where there isn't any dialogue for.

I can't remember if I write down or not, but it's definitely 30 to 40 minutes where there isn't a large amount of dialogue.

There's bits of banter between Sarah and her roommate, but there isn't any plot exposition.

That's all just going on, you see.

And even the fact that she's called Sarah Connor.

I feel like if this was a modern film, she'd have a scene where she's like, hello, I'm Sarah Connor.

But it's not.

It's on a.

A time card.

It's visual storytelling.

Visual storytelling.

And I was like, yeah, that's what we're missing.

That's what the 80s film.

There's a cool thing as well, because even when the exposition is eventually delivered, it's mainly in the car during a car chase.

And he's just like, this is what's going on.

And it's.

And he delivers it so well.

Michael B.

There's this funny story with James Cameron where we think with Avatar 3, he knew he had to get, like, tons of pages of exposition in because he had to let people know what had happened in the last movies and then sum up what's happened in between the last two movies.

And he wanted to do it in six pages.

Six pages.

And he was walking through town and on like a new stall, he saw this magazine and it said, 10 tips of how to do exposition in your movie.

Oh, no way.

And he was like, oh, I'll get that, I'll get the magazine.

And he got it and took it home and opened it up and the full title was like 10 tips on how to do exposition in a movie.

Like James Cameron in Terminator.

He's like, damn it, I already know this stuff.

Because he does it so well.

It never feels like that bit where someone's just like, oh, tell me again why this is happening.

Or oh, there's a constant reminds.

Go over the plan one more time.

Right?

No, please don't.

None of that.

He's just got it and we're moving and we're in the car chase.

We're not stupid.

We don't need to be spoon fed.

Yeah.

And it's just really, just believable world.

And James Cameron's like that anyway, like we know from behind the scenes, like with Avatar and stuff, he would have drawn designs of different terminators, how they work.

The world is really, really effectively created in his mind.

And even when they're in the love scenes, it's cutting back and forth to the Terminator getting closer and closer.

So he's obviously fooled her on the phone and he's at the cabin and then he's on the bike and they're like having the sex scene.

And then you're like, come on, no Time for love, Dr. Jones.

Move this along.

Exactly.

But that's all tension in the visual editing, isn't it?

The other thing as well, I forgot to say, when we're talking about the cops, but the lead cop at one point just says, you're mama.

And I was just like, oh, these guys are just kids.

So that was interesting.

I also, in terms of what you miss as well, when Arnie's getting all the weapons, he says, do you have a phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

Okay.

And then there's a couple of people talking about this online that why would say that.

And you know, you can argue that the records of this time period are flawed.

So he didn't know what weapons exist.

But also it's probable that around this time the only type of weapon that would be a threat to him is the phase plasma rifle in the 40 watts range.

So if the guy selling it had a phase plasma rifle at a 40 watt range, he could potentially attack the Terminator.

So it's almost like he was checking, he's like do you have that?

Just what you see, pal.

He's like, okay, new Z9 millimeter.

Hey, you can't do that.

Wrong.

Because you don't have a phase plasma wife on a four watch range.

You can't stop me.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Because he'll be thinking logistically like that.

Yeah, he's like a shotgun.

Can't stop me.

Right.

You know, I'll get up at anything.

Yeah.

And then I think just going with the tension as well.

Once Sarah knows that she's been hunted, the way she.

The tension builds is like every man is a threat.

And it really kind of hammered home this kind of movement we're going through now.

Just how exhausting that must be, where she's just looking like, which one of these guys is a threat to me?

And, you know, she looks at Michael Bien, who, to be fair, does look like is a bit of a shady threat.

And likewise, this was like one of his early movies.

It almost feels like his desperation as an actor comes through the character.

He does a great job.

I'm not sure if I've got anything else that I missed.

Have you anything, Paul?

The only other bits were kind of just the fact that it's very tangible because we're in the 80s.

It's not CGI.

It's not computer effects.

It's very much models.

And strangely, apart from an odd shot here and there where you go, okay, it's obviously a back screen and whatever, which isn't probably up to date.

But the budget they did this on was next to nothing.

So it's incredible what they've done done to have this film hold up after so many years on such a small budget.

That's how good the model work is.

And I did watch a bit of the behind the scenes of them doing the model work and just Stan Winston, right?

Yeah, Stan Winston doing the creature makeup stuff.

And again, you see the.

You can kind of see the switches now because we're a bit more used to it.

It's obvious.

There's Annie putting it back, and it's a bit more obvious.

But at the same time, the craftsmanship, which is, again, something we talk about.

I think.

I think one of the facts was it took him, like, six months to make that Arnie head.

So at the time, that'll have been Stan Winston at the top of his game.

And it is impressive when, obviously, it gets to the makeup and the eye still, even though we can tell the cuts maybe between when it's real or not.

But the model work, some of that model work on the future scenes holds up probably better than some of the later films.

And it's nice to see it, particularly

with, like, the Terminator skeleton walk in that animatronic just takes me back to Ray Harryhausen and Jason and the Argonauts.

And it's allowed to look like that.

It's joyful.

CGI just doesn't work quite as well, I don't think.

And also, the fact is, we're really used to, like, we've done Alien on this podcast, and if someone sees Alien, they immediately go, oh, it's Alien.

Terminator's a bit like that.

Oh, it's Terminator.

But the time.

And the music as well.

And the music.

But at the time, these were new designs.

Yeah, this was completely new.

We're used to seeing that Terminator headset.

This is version one.

Yeah.

This is like pop culture now.

But back then it was like.

Oh, it's also weird because the 80s were so synonymous with, like, the kind of almost like the Nietzsche and hero, the superhero physique, like Stallone and Dolph Lundgren and Arnie.

They were the heroes of the 80s.

And yet this is a bit more like Die Hard.

It's more of a Bruce Willis type hero, where it's just an ordinary guy.

And apparently Arnie auditioned for Reese originally.

They were considering that.

Wow, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

And then we wouldn't be talking about it.

No.

I read that Mel Gibson was considered for the Terminator and didn't want to do it.

And then he saw Arnie do it.

He's like, no, no, that was a better choice because he.

I think everybody did pull it off.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Something I noticed, which I've never noticed before, is the opening scene introducing Michael Bain and Arnie.

The two contrasting ways they entered.

Yeah.

Arnie just in, flawless, up, straight to work.

Whereas Michael Bain, the human, really struggled.

He was in pain.

Like, the process was painful.

And then he.

Straight away, he's got like, he's tired, he needs to eat, he needs to sleep.

Terminator.

Just go on.

I didn't realize that it was already depicting the difference straight away, right off the bat.

When you first see.

I never.

I've never picked up that before until this time.

So you're getting good at this now.

This is good.

Also, I think our memory is.

If you like the movie you love, like, Reese Hicks, like, these are names that we really kind of fall in love with when we.

When the first time we watch it.

Also, huge underdogs, Huge Underdogs, which we love.

And so we think he's, like, more maybe adept than he actually is.

I mean, he's come from a future where all he does is fight machines.

So that's an interesting thing you say, because you could go a little bit into, like, Carl Jung and shadows.

And so we meet people, talk about shadows.

Right.

Talk about the shadow self.

Like the part of your psyche that is not explicitly.

And it can be like a dark thing, but it can also be a light thing.

Like, if you're not exploring your creativity, you can be unhappy.

It's weird with Rhys because he hasn't really had a childhood.

He's only had a traumatic upbringing.

Bleak.

He's probably hasn't felt the touch of a woman necessarily.

So his whole thing that he's trying to bring out of his shadows is love.

He's missing Jigsaw piece is love.

And it happened to be the photo that he grew up holding onto.

A little bit creepy, but I think we can look.

Overlook it.

Yeah, exactly.

But it's almost like he's got his dream woman.

Yeah.

The girl in his locker, so to speak.

And then that's who it ends up.

Something else I've never noticed before is towards the end when Kyle, you see Kyle shows him in the future and he goes back to his bunker and he's walking past all sorts of people do, like the girl playing washing fire inside what used to be a microwave or a tv and there's kids playing.

And it's.

It's bleak, it's horrible.

There's just a moment where he realizes, yeah, we are winning this war.

But it's taking its toll.

Yeah.

Like on the.

On humans in general.

It's just really grim.

2029.

This Is Us in a couple of years.

Yeah.

But it's like they would win and go, we won.

Yay.

Yeah.

They've just got nothing left.

It's just.

That's another texture layer there that I've never noticed before.

There's.

There's two.

I've got three things, actually.

One thing is these two link is obviously when he lands, you see, he's got scars all over his body and there's burn marks, which is kind of a nice touch.

But then in the future, you see him crash the car and then he's burning and then he wakes up screaming in the past from the nightmare of when he was burned.

I was like, that's a nice link.

Plus it explains why you can drive a car.

Yeah, that's true.

Because he comes back in time and Drives a car.

But how do you know how to do that?

Oh, you still.

Of course you still have cars.

Like, not that far in the future.

50 years.

What was the third thing?

This is a kind of cool thing that I vaguely.

I only thought of this recently, but I remember reading this article and it was on leadership and it was about bisons and buffalo, but I can't remember what version it was.

And it's linked to Sarah Connor because at the end of the movie, the kid says, oh, there's a storm coming.

And she's like, I know.

And drives straight into the storm.

She doesn't give a fuck.

And what happens in.

In like planes in America?

I don't know.

You know my geography of America.

I know if someone can correct me, I'm sure if the storm comes over the horizon, buffalo charge away from the storm to get away from it.

But the storm moves faster than them.

So it catches up and then they end up being in the storm for longer.

Whereas bison will turn and charge the storm.

So get through it quicker.

Get through it quicker.

Yeah, I like that.

And I just remember thinking, like, Linda Hamilton's a bison in this.

She says, there's a storm coming, let's get it over with.

I remember you saying you teach with

a certain seed scene, that nightclub scene.

Okay, well, what is it about that?

What?

There's two parts of it.

Mainly it's because of subjective storytelling.

So like my students, a lot of the time, again, they're just trying to create reality.

Like, I'll also show the Godfather scene where Al Pacino.

I haven't seen it.

Spoiler.

Okay, but there's a scene where there's a train noise for no reason.

And you don't.

There's no train on the shot, but the train noise adds to the emotion, the character's feeling.

And so the Terminator scene is just a really great example of firstly building tension.

Tension, but also of manipulating particularly the sound and the visuals in order to show subjectively what the characters are feeling.

I'm going for physical media run, as I do watch this on 4K.

They only just remastered it in the last couple of years.

I don't know what people think of it personally.

Fantastic.

I'd like to.

Oh, man, it's so good.

Like some of the scenes where I'm like, oh, the cinematography just pops off the screen.

Amazing.

Just on that.

I may have told this story before.

Obviously, I'm nearly 50, so I had a 4 by 3 TV in my bedroom and I used to watch movies.

That's when they were square.

Some of our listeners, like, they were square.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So TVs were square.

And so what they would do is they would either do pan and scan where you'd have a square frame, and it would kind of move around the frame.

Depending on what they thought was important, they would just cut, or they would just cut the sides off.

So the first time or two times I watched Terminator, I thought it was trash and I couldn't understand what everyone was going on about.

Interesting.

And then I'm pretty sure it was.

It was like Channel 4, Film 4.

They'd put movies on at 10 o' clock at night and they would have widescreen, so they'd have the black bars.

But the thinking was that people wouldn't like the black bars because they're seeing less than the movie.

And I remember watching it being like, why the am I loving this movie right now?

And it was because of that.

Used to butcher films in the day.

A lot of important details missed.

Same with quoting, like, you know, when Beverly Hills Cop, he would be like mother dunker and stuff.

Really badly dubbed swear words.

Suck my kneecap is one I remember.

Suck my kneecap.

Why does that sound like a.

But the first time I saw Terminator, so I was a kid who didn't actually get to see the 18 until I was older.

Everyone in the playground would be talking about Terminator and I'd be like, I

think I was much older when I saw this.

There's a few where it was just like, I just get to see.

I'm glad, because you have to fully understand it.

It's quite a complex film.

So the first time I actually saw it was at uni, where we had the film society, which I was the film booking officer of.

That's right, kids, you can look me up if you're at Lancaster University right now.

But I watched it on the big screen for the first time because they used to get old films in and mix them with the new film.

The first time I saw Terminator was at a cinema.

So I never saw it on video.

In Pattern Scared, I saw it on the big screen.

I mean, I was only three when this came out.

So.

Yeah.

So you wouldn't see it on the big screen either.

Another thing is that Sarah's got a pet iguana.

Yes.

Which is weird because that's an unusual pet.

And then I was like, why is that?

Why have a pet iguana?

That's an unusual pet.

But then I was like, well, iguana is kind of like similar to A dinosaur.

So I was like, is this trying to say that she is like represents the past in some way or she's interested in the past or something like that and then the terminus is the future.

I don't know.

I was just trying to come up with a reason.

What's the reason to write in.

Let's give them a pet iguana.

Yeah, let's go spend some of our budget that we don't have on an iguana.

Or maybe they went looking for a dog and they were like, well, it's this much money.

And they were like, oh, how much for the iguana?

$10.

We'll take it.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, I think we'll move on.

That takes us nicely into Paul's facts of the day.

Ooh, you almost said that.

Like Arnie, there going to be frank.

There's like a billion.

Can I so be down.

That's a Wayne's Will reference there.

Nice.

Nicely played.

You can.

There's so many, so many facts for Tony.

So I'm picking some out.

But yeah, go down that rabbit hole and there's loads.

And they're all pretty cool.

I will try and pick out the better ones.

Oh, the lesser known ones.

Yeah, we'll try.

So one of the things that we kind of have discussed is because it's low budget, James Cameron often resorted to what he called guerrilla filmmaking as a way of getting around acquiring permits and things to film certain scenes.

And it involved the production crew and actors quickly arriving specified location, shooting a scene and leaving before the police arrived

because they didn't have permission.

They'd be like, Arnie, walk over there, put your fist through that windscreen.

Okay, get out of here.

Yeah.

And apparently is that to save them because they couldn't get permission sometimes or cost money?

Yeah, it was money cost money.

They had no money.

So this was also used for reshoots with Cameron even calling and waking arnie once at 3am to meet him at a location already in full costume to quickly reshoot a scene like Arnie.

Come on.

Do we know what scene it was?

No, no, it doesn't say.

Someone will probably know.

Yeah.

And he used that technique with the very last scene where Sarah drives off as a bison into the desert, as we now know.

So waiting for the heat to rise, the point that ripples could be filmed.

A highway patrolman appeared.

So they're obviously waiting for it to get hot enough.

Highway patrolman appeared and the producer, Gale Anne Hurd, convinced him that they were working on a UCLA film project.

And he allowed them a finish.

Nice.

Oh, just doing a uni thing.

It's all good.

Is that Annie over there?

Is that Linda Hamilton?

No, it's all good.

My friend I went to uni with went over to LA and worked at Gale Anne Hurd's office for a while.

Gale Earn Hurd was also married to James Cameron at this point.

That's right.

I don't know who it is.

She went on to produce things like

Walking Dead and then James Cameron went on to marry Linda Hamilton.

He married quite a few.

I think he's had like he didn't

just have girlfriends, he used to marry them.

Put a ring on it.

And he speaks really kindly about all of them.

So Arnie didn't think much of the initial screenplay and was only going to do this for the money and because he felt a contemporary film would be beneficial to his career.

And in fact there was another fact which I can't now find, but it was something around when he was filming the one of the Conan films.

He was like, oh yeah, my next film's some shit film.

And then he came out later on and said, I probably shouldn't have said that.

It's one of his favorite.

Well, I think it said it's his.

One of his favorite films he ever did.

So Kyle Reese only smiles once during the entire movie.

1 hour 23.

And that's when Sarah Connor playfully throws him a bag of explosives after a then night of intimacy.

That's the only time he smiles in the film, which makes sense.

He's like sex.

He's not got much to smile about.

Linda Hamilton sprained her ankle prior to production.

So most of the chase scenes were moved towards the end of the shooting schedule to allow her leg to heal.

And even so her ankle had to be taped up every day so she could do a run in.

And spent most of the shoot in pain.

Maybe that added to the performance.

He was doing that first.

First they were prepared to wait rather than recast him in the interim.

So once they decided it was him, they were waiting for him to watch that.

The Terminator's motorcycle was later displayed in Arnie's restaurant, Planet Hollywood.

We were talking about all the hard men of the 80s, so to speak, or the.

What we call them the icons.

Yeah, like male action heroes.

Yeah, basically, yeah.

So Sylvester Stallone was considered for the Terminator, but he declined.

And coincidentally a Year after James Cameron and Stallone wrote Rambo First Blood Part two together.

Also, there was a competition between Stallone and Arnie about their success in action movies, about who would win in a battle.

Rambo the Terminator.

And Stallone later worked with Arnold on the Expendables movies.

But of course, if you've seen the Last Action Hero with Arnie, there's a scene where it features a video store cardboard cutout of Stallone as the Terminator.

Isn't Arnie in Demolition man as opposed to.

Or something?

I think he is.

Did they flip it the other way or something and he's Rambo?

Something like that.

It's something like that, yeah.

I think he's Rambo in Devil.

Definitely a reference there.

The Dark future scene around 20 minutes in, where Kyle throws a grenade under the tread of one of Skynet's machines.

It took 26 attempts to get it right.

See, no CGE, no computer stuff in them days.

They had to get it, get the take right.

One of the things I saw in the behind the scenes was how intricate it was to get the fog and the atmosphere for when they were doing all the miniature.

Make it consistent for the scene.

Yeah, very complicated.

But obviously it worked.

It worked because we're here all these years later, still talking about it.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice is used in exactly 16 lines with 17 sentences spoken.

And then this is kind of just a reference movie, movie reference thing.

So Bill Paxton.

Paxton is in this.

And if you don't know, he's the punk at the telescope at the film's beginning.

Isn't it cute that he wanted to use the telescope?

It's like, it's my turn to use a telescope.

I want to look at the stars.

Yeah, those punks love their astronomy, didn't they?

But Bill Paxton, he's got like a.

Is it like a blue mohawk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The first actor to have been assaulted by a Terminator, an alien and a predator.

Also, he had.

That's good.

I like that one.

He had a tire tattoo.

Oh, yeah, he did.

Oh, yeah.

And it's like.

Was that a reference to the.

The robot tread going over a skull at the beginning?

I like that.

Don't forget, the other person who's been potentially attacked by all M3 is Lanz Henriksen.

Yeah.

Because contrary to popular belief, Paxton was never confirmed to have been killed by the Terminator or an alien.

And Henriksen may have survived as an account with the Terminator.

So you got Michael Behan, Lance Henriksen, and Bill Paxton, who all Went on to being alien together.

Aliens together.

Yeah.

And they were also.

I think all three of them, maybe not Michael Bien, were in Near Dark.

There's kind of a director cameo in this, which is.

James Cameron's voice is heard three times in the movie.

Movie as Sarah Connor's date on the answering machine and twice as the manager of the Tiki Motel.

He stands up.

Sarah Connor.

Yeah.

Sit the down.

Right.

And then his future wife.

Yeah.

Cool.

Does the name Harlan Ellison mean anything to you guys?

I'm thinking something of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang with Val Kililmer, Robert Downey Jr.

But that's.

That's.

Yeah, that's the author.

Similar name, isn't it?

Now go on, go for it.

At the end of the film.

I can't remember which points near the beginning of the credits coming up.

It just comes up.

Acknowledgment to the works of Harlan Ellison.

It's a sci fi writer.

Well, I'll tell you, the credit was added after a legal dispute.

What happened?

So Harlan Ellison, a science fiction author, claimed that the Terminator borrowed ideas from two episodes he wrote for the TV series the Outer Limits.

Both episodes involve dystopian futures, soldiers sent back in time, and themes of pre destination elements that overlap conceptually with the Terminator.

Ellison sued the production company Orion Pictures, alleging copyright infringement.

The case was settled out of court in the mid-80s.

As part of the settlement, Ellison reportedly received a large financial payment.

The acknowledgment credit was added to home video releases and later prints of the film.

But did James Cameron admit to copying?

James Cameron has publicly stated that he did not intentionally copy Ellison's work and was reportedly unhappy that the settlement included the acknowledgement.

He was happy for the sell, but not the acknowledgement.

But the settlement didn't require admission of wrongdoing.

They're often about avoiding prolonged litigation.

So was Ellison right?

This still debated in sci fi circles.

The core idea of time travel plus future war, plus paradox wasn't unique to Ellison.

But the similarities were close enough.

That student chose to settle rather than fight out in court.

Wow.

It's interesting to me because one of the things about this movie is it feels like it's dipping into like the collective unconscious.

It feels like it's dipping into myth.

Like it feels like this is a.

Almost like a Greek tale, like a myth, or like a Roman myth or whatever.

So it kind of doesn't surprise me that other writers would have picked up on it.

And James Cameron Came up with this idea whilst he was having a fever dream after he had food poisoning.

So it feels like it came from.

Because I'm a big believer in, like, you know, Carl Jung.

And you have our conscious mind, we have a subconscious mind, and then we have the collective unconscious which we can all dip into.

And it's kind of where dreams come from and stuff.

And then there's also cool theories around it.

So I feel a little bit bad when someone's dipped into the collective unconscious, being pulled out a story and explored it.

When we know that there's always movies that come out around the same time with writers that have never met.

Same with songs.

Music, it's like, yeah, there's going to be overlaps.

There's only so many chords and notes.

And it's like sometimes just certain stories want to be told and they just.

People can have different people.

Other sides of the world can have similar ideas at the same time.

Exactly.

Right.

It's possible, yeah.

Particularly how many people there are.

So I just.

I never knew that.

That's the first time I've noticed that.

So I thought I'd look it up.

There you go.

Well, James Cameron.

During production, the crew made T shirts saying, you can't scare me.

I work for James Cameron.

Well, James Cameron was, he would admit, an absolute tyrant in his early years.

Yeah, he has softened so much since.

There's a really good, great course on Masterclass where you can pay, like, you know, however much per year and, you know, there's courses by loads of filmmakers.

James Cameron's course on that is superb.

And he's really kind and acknowledging of all the people around him.

So he'd be like, you know, great props to my editor Mark, for doing this scene.

Like, he did a really, really good job.

That's new.

That's a new version of James Cameron.

He's learned some humility.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, thanks for your facts, Paul.

Yeah, they were good facts.

That was very good.

There is a lot more.

There's lots of facts.

Terminator.

So let's move on to hate it or rate it.

And I'm gonna go up to me first, because it was my first.

Yeah, your choice.

And I think this is an absolute classic.

It's one of my favorite movies.

And this time actually made me like it even more.

Like, sometimes when you spot things, it makes you like a film less.

You can spot errors or.

Yeah.

Nah, this is like everything we've discussed, the story writing, the props, how they did it, how limited they were, the budget that they did it how did

they do this on this budget?

It's the biggest.

What was the budget?

Do we know?

We Google it.

Let's find out because it's interesting.

I want to say 6 million, but I don't know why.

I think that would be outrageous.

But all that into consideration to come up with something like this that, as you say, it's timeless.

It still works now as much as it ever did, and it shows you a reflection of what we're missing now.

I think a lot of the time everything's a bit watered down and too plain and no one seems to take risks anymore.

So that's my opinion.

And as a mark, I'm going to give it 9.5.

Nice.

The irony that I'm about to ask AI the budget to the.

The AI takeover movie.

US$6.4 million.

There you go, Darren.

That was very good.

I've got so much knowledge in my head.

You should get all the applause.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's a 9.5 for me.

Over to Mr. Darren Horn.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

I.

This is one of the movies that got me into film and it's part of that time period where I began to work out what a director does.

So I worked out who James Cameron was.

I worked out who, like, John Carpenter was.

Another big one.

I was dreading watching this and I. I was like, I'm too familiar with it.

I'm not gonna like it and it's not gonna hold up.

And it started and it was a little bit clunky.

And I was like, you know, we need to be establishing genre like this.

It's called Terminator.

We know it's gonna happen and stuff.

And then it just kept kind of building and it moves so fucking fast.

And like we were saying that juxtaposition between Arnold Schwarzenegger's flawless body and this wrecked, frail body of like, Michael Bien's character was just phenomenal.

The pacing is insane.

It is a love story.

I love how it is under all the surface stuff that's that love story.

There's pretty.

The heart to it.

Yes.

He literally says, I came across time for you, Sarah.

I love you.

I always have.

That reminds me, that Dracula quote where it's like, I've crossed oceans of time for you.

Like, yeah.

In the few hours they had together, they loved A lifetime, I just think.

And it's.

It's fully, fully believable.

Sarah Connors character development from this innocent.

I mean, there's a great scene where she says, oh, so you're from the future?

He's like, yeah.

And then she bites him.

And he just deals with it like a jaded soldier.

He's like, yeah.

Terminators don't feel pain.

I do.

Don't do that again.

I'm like, that's such good writing.

And Linda Hamilton, I think, theater background.

And she was always.

I remember seeing an interview years ago where she was saying, you know, they hired this bodybuilder.

And I was like, well, they did doing.

And she's like.

But then I realized that, you know, bodybuilders are all about stillness and movement.

And once you see symmetry, like machinery.

Yeah.

Once you see him start to do that, like, he does that cool thing where he'll move his eyes first, then his head moves like a CCTV camera scanning.

Yeah.

It sends.

It's chills for me.

And I think.

I know I keep going back to this myth thing.

This is universal storytelling.

I think you could almost take this and put it into like any culture almost at any time.

It's like fear and fear of machines.

Just as is Mr. Bean.

Yeah, yeah.

I just, I.

And I was really struggling over the grade.

I was going to go 9.5 as well, because I do think that opening is a slight misstep.

But then they do so many other things amazingly, and it just became more and more charming.

Like I was saying, I don't remember all these, like, backup characters.

It's like supporting characters adding so much texture.

Three dimensional and, you know.

Yeah.

The nightclub scene is a masterpiece.

Without police attacks scene is insane.

Their panic and like how we got

30 cops in the building.

Yeah, it's all right.

Even that bit where Michael Bean then stops and looks at the camera and like he's.

He's naive because he doesn't.

He thinks the police are going to help because he's like, you guys are in charge.

Like, I'm.

I'm telling you what's going on.

Why aren't you helping me?

And then he looks at the count.

That was apparently his idea as well.

It's not going to stop.

It's got to keep coming for.

For you.

He's also.

They're all kind of launching their careers through this.

And I think in the later movies, they know they're in a Terminator movie.

And so they don't have the same drive.

Drive or charm.

And we've said this before, the early filmmakers, like Run Loader, Run with Nail and I, the guys who had a bit more creative freedom, a bit more under the radar.

The studios weren't really zero budget to work with.

Zero budget but that forces creativity.

I think you do better work.

Made with love.

Made with love.

So I ain't gonna go 9.5.

I'm gonna go 10.

Nice.

Incredible.

I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Okay, Paul, over to you.

Well, I ain't gonna mess around.

I'm also going to 10.

I'm almost like 10.

No notes.

Wow.

Everything you both said.

Absolutely.

And to be honest, the bit, even Darren's a bit like, oh, I'm not sure about the beginning.

I wrote down this is how you open a film because I always think it opens with the dumpster truck.

So when it goes into the future thing, I'm always like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.

And then the music kicks in.

I think it's the music that gets me as well.

I'm like, yes, this.

I remember having the soundtrack, but then

watching it on 4K especially, it was just like, it's so clear.

So I was having kind of a.

And the stakes are really clear.

We know what's at stake, like, very early on.

Like, you've got to say Sarah Connor.

Oh, and also going back to the horror movie thing.

The monster comes back twice.

You know, in slash movie it's Final girl.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rhys kills it first or thinks he's killed it.

And then it comes back and then Sarah Connor has to kill it.

And the fact it just keeps going with the tension because then it's literally it's just his torso crawling along the thing and it's still terrifying.

It is.

Until his very last eye shuts down.

I also.

I do fall in love with Sarah Connor.

I don't know.

I don't know if it's because I'm not sure.

It's whether she's like a pure, like an innocent, or because she has to go through that or she grows because I admire her.

I don't know what it is, but like I said at the beginning, it makes me believe in love again.

And I just want to cross time for someone.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, I can't top that.

Move on.

This is a year, Paul.

We're going to double date with someone.

Are we just going to go around Sarah Connor?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That would be so cool.

If I end up with someone called Sarah Connor, I would never get.

She'd break up with me for quoting Terminator.

Too much.

Yeah.

I think we both have the same problem there.

Yeah.

If there's any Sarah Connors listening to the podcast, let us know right in and marry me.

I'll take your name.

Oh, Christ.

Darren Connor is a Good friend of mine was a good friend of mine.

So.

I know, right?

He was a film lecturer.

But yeah, no, I'm giving it 10.

Great.

Amazing.

And the only other thing I was going to say is where we sort of said, I'm just thinking for the younger viewers who maybe never seen it before, where they're going to get to them scenes where it's like, oh, that looks a bit shit.

Whatever.

It's like, the film's so good.

Barely any budget done on a shoestring.

The technology wasn't there.

Technology wasn't there.

This is what they came up with.

And you see them scenes and you just completely go, it's fine, it's good.

It's like you say the whole stop motion stuff, it feels tangible even though it's done.

Like Jason, the Argonauts, stop motion.

There's also this nice, nice idea of.

I saw this podcast once and I can't remember the name, but this woman was talking about the thing that she had learned and something this guy told her it and she was saying, I think it was something about her mum was really ill and she was like, I don't know what I'm going to do if I lose my mum.

And he said, of course you don't, because the version of you that's going to deal with that doesn't exist yet.

And I remember thinking that watching this, like the version of Sarah Connor that can deal because she, at one point, she's like, I'm not a warrior.

I'm not going to be able to do this.

I can't lead a resistance and say, yeah, because that version of you hasn't.

It doesn't exist yet.

And we can all, like, learn from

that, evolve into something.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, bad stuff is going to happen, happen in life.

And the version of you that can deal with that doesn't exist yet.

But you will evolve, you will grow and you will deal with this just as you did every other time in the past.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Yeah, nice.

And we do grow through pain.

Absolutely.

We learn a lot more through failure than we do through success.

Yeah.

So I don't need to do the maths on that.

That is 29.5, which puts it number one.

Wow.

It has knocked Jaws off the top.

So Jaws was 28.5, this is 29.5.

I actually think I'm okay.

Okay with that.

Yeah, I am.

It's a Wonderful Life in third on 27.2.

Back to the Future in fourth on 27.

And Run.

Lilla running fifth with 26.9.

Whereas with Nell and I.

Did you guys not like with Nail

and I with nil.

And I's tenth with 25.3.

No, I think.

I think we all liked it, but not.

I think we all liked it, just not as much as that.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

The question in the room, which I feel people will be thinking is, do we like Terminator 2 more than Terminator 1?

Because my answer is, well, we can't do that.

We'll have to.

They'll have to choose it.

Well, one of us.

And we'll have to do it another time.

So that is our thoughts on the movie.

That is the Terminator in a nutshell.

But we'd love to know your thoughts and what you thought of what we think.

And we love your thoughts on the movie and this episode.

So send your thoughts in and we'll read them out on the show.

One thing we forgot to do last week for Mr. Joe Lamb was we didn't even acknowledge the Listening League.

Oh, did we not put it straight?

We put a listener choice movie straight into the Legend League, which it does go in, but we didn't even acknowledge the Listener League.

We're about to do that now.

Then I've done so.

So we gave it it the prestige.

We gave it 21.1, which put it in fifth out of 14 now on the Listening League.

That's pretty good.

Yeah.

So it's just behind Alien and Predator, and it's just above Margin Call and the Crow.

That's.