In this episode, I dive deep into the dynamics of the most common coaching program structures, specifically focusing on Cohort-based versus Evergreen models. If you're a coach, an educator, or a practitioner considering an online program to scale your expertise, this episode is packed with insights that will teach you how to think and not just what to do. More importantly, you’ll learn how to move away from “same-same” solutions and start making strategic decisions that align with your vision and your audience.
Tune in to discover how you can structure your coaching program to provide bigger, better, and faster results for your clients.
Connect With Kinsey
FREE LIVE Scalable Offers Masterclass: How To Rethink Group Coaching Programs and Create Offers That Attract Top-Tier Clients Effortlessly: www.kinseymachos.com/innovate
FREE Download: The Revolutionary Content Kit: A 7-pillar method to creating unique content that sells + connects at the same time: www.kinseymachos.com/revolutionary
Ready to discover your unique category, streamline your services, and organically launch your scalable offer to 20K+ months with more harmony and rhythm? Don’t sacrifice the quality of your services as you scale. See if you’re a good fit for our signature experience, Launch Like A Queen: www.kinseymachos.com/launchqueen
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Do not miss these highlights:
03:00 Introduction to the two prevailing models in coaching: Cohort-based and Evergreen.
04:10 A comprehensive education on what these models mean for your coaching structure and enrollment strategy.
05:30 Tips on how you can blend different concepts and methods within these models to optimize client results.
06:23 How Cohort-based coaching aligns with traditional educational structures.
08:23 What it means to operate an Evergreen coaching program where clients can enroll at any time.
09:55 Basic advantages and disadvantages of Cohort and Evergreen models.
11:50 A nuanced look at how Cohort and Evergreen models could serve your specific objectives.
16:20 The importance of a selling mindset, regardless of the model you choose.
17:00 Why there's no 'easy' path—each model comes with its unique challenges and benefits.
18:05 A nod to a previous episode discussing the role of urgency in your coaching business.
20:04 Why brand strength is crucial irrespective of your coaching model.
21:00 The episode's ethos: Teaching you how to think, not what to think.
21:57 Key questions to answer that will guide you toward choosing the best model for your business.
33:53 The non-negotiables: Revenue, profitability, and client satisfaction.
35:00 The importance of systematizing your business for scalability.
38:52 Questions around how you want your clients to experience your curriculum, coaching, and community.
42:20 Final thoughts on structuring your scalable offer for maximum impact.
42:53 How we can support you in this journey through our signature program, Launch Like A Queen.
About the Host
Kinsey Machos, a Marketing Strategist, is also a recovering people pleaser, self-sabotager, and corporate hustler. She helps entrepreneurs create and execute magnetic marketing and build expert brands so that they can get known, seen, and heard online.
She believes that creating a business that’s 100% in alignment with SELF is one of the most important things that we can do as women — because there’s an inner magic that we all have if we commit to an infinite pursuit of discovering (and re-discovering) that.
As a wife and a mom of three, the family takes priority. And having a business that’s run AROUND her lifestyle is a daily intention of hers.
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Welcome to Captivate and Close. I'm Kinsey Machos, business consultant and marketing strategist. And I'm going to show you how to attract and enroll high-paying clients using my break through online marketing strategies, all without having to rely on complicated funnels, disingenuous clickbait, or spammy sales tactics. These are the messaging marketing and selling secrets that virtually no one is talking about. So let's dive in. Hello, my friend, I hope you're having such an incredible morning, or afternoon evening, which ever time it is that you are plugging in right now. It is morning for me. But I always like to visualize literally like my listeners and where they are and what they're doing when they plug in. You know, for myself, I'm often plugging in when I'm driving. Sometimes when I'm walking, I've been trying to unplug a little bit more when I walk or move my body outside. But I think it's so fun to really consider the fact that literally I have people, you taking the time to plug into my messages and my mission and my voice, it's just really, you know, I just get this sense of gratitude every time I turn on the mic, and I want to do a better job at just expressing my gratitude to the current audience I have. And those of you that have maybe just found me or have been around for a little bit longer. You are why I get to do what I love to do so much. So thank you for listening. And it's so fun to really imagine you on the other side of this message and what you're doing and how you're receiving this. So I've been definitely taking not just really taking some space to sit in that instead of just kind of move from one thing to the next over and over again, because I love to be efficient. But it's always so powerful to sit in that moment of pause, and really truly feel grateful for the things that we are surrounded by, at this very moment. So thank you. Now what I want to talk about today is actually a topic that is not asked enough, which is really fascinating, because it was definitely something that when we were starting to restructure some of our programs or consider new programs are really looking at client success rate. One of the things that came up before in my brain was looking at research from a cohort based model versus evergreen model in coaching, I'm going to talk about the definitions of those. And what that means if you if you haven't heard this concept before, because again, I don't think that people are asking this question. And often it's just because you don't know what you don't know. And so it's my responsibility to educate you. And in my opinion, this is a very powerful question you can ask yourself, when developing a really powerful results driven, scalable offer, whether it's a mastermind group coaching program, or a course, right, blended with a little bit of coaching, whatever that looks like for you, or even if you are a done for you service agency, when you think about scaling that and streamlining that this is again, something that is a really powerful question to ask when you're starting to deliver more curriculum or education to your market. And I realized that people are not asking this because they don't have this depth of expertise, right? Nobody, most people don't think about scalable offers for the lens that I do, which is why this is my zone of genius. And this is why I believe I am here for you. And so I want to give you some education around these two different models when it comes to enrollment structure and coaching structure for scalable offers, and give you that context so that you can make better business decisions because I think it all comes back to you don't know what you don't know. And so if we're not asking the right questions, and we're not looking at these things through the lens of a responsible CEO, when it comes to client satisfaction and profitability, it will be really hard to create traction in your business but also really stay at that competitive edge or have that competitive edge. Stay at the you know, if you think about leading your industry or becoming known in your field. This is one of those things that is going to really help you who paved the way? So let's talk about these two concepts. You have cohort based coaching program models, and you have evergreen coaching program models. So the difference between those two is can be pretty significant in some scenarios and not in other scenarios. And I want to talk through those scenarios. And I'm going to give you different examples of all the different layers within these two frameworks. Because it's not a black or white, there's actually many different ways that you can layer in the concepts and methods that we're going to talk about in order to help your clients get bigger, better, faster results. And that's what we want to keep thinking about when we make decisions around this topic. And I wanted to show you all the different ways you can really slice this. And hopefully you walk away with new ideas, or even little pivots or tweaks or adjustments you can make to your current coaching program, if you do have a scalable offer, or right if you're planning to launch one, you will be able to make better decisions in regards to the structure of that program. So let's first define what I mean here by cohort-based programs versus evergreen programs. So cohort-based enrollment, or cohort-based programs are really in line with the traditional way of how education is structured, right? If you think about a college course, you know, taking a college course on campus, or even any year that you are in school, you start at a certain time with everybody else in your class, and you go through that curriculum that experience together from start to finish. And when you apply that model to cohort based coaching or cohort-based enrollment, it's similar, right, you enroll your clients at the same time, and you take a group of clients through that experience together through start, and they start at the same time they finish at the same time. That is like at the baseline, how we want to look at cohort-based enrollment or cohort-based programs. Now, as a caveat, the other way that I've actually heard cohort-based pro programs to find out is live launch. And I think this is more in relation to enrollment. But I've heard even like Amy Porterfield talk about evergreen versus live launch model, and live launch in relation to cohort. And so I think it's a little bit confusing when you think about it that way, because we actually use the live launch model in an evergreen scenario. And live launch structure just really means you're using a live launch to enroll clients. But it doesn't necessarily mean how the program is structured, per se. So I do want to throw that out there. Instead of hearing cohort-based coaching, you may have heard live launch model, meaning you only launch or open doors a couple of times a year and take a group of clients in right through again, a start and a stop scenario. And then you have evergreen enrollment or evergreen coaching programs structures, which really mean that a client can come in at any time to experience the coaching the curriculum and the community. And it's not necessarily defined when or their experience of the program isn't relying on other clients in the coaching experience or in the program experience.Kinsey Machos:
And again, there's all the nuances within that that can create different variations of evergreen, but at the baseline evergreen enrollment really just means that a client can come in at any time to your program. Oftentimes, when we look at these two structures, there can be a very narrow way of thinking when clients are or when coaches are structuring their programs. And so through what I just gave you, we have this very black and white of like, should I be cohort or should I be evergreen, and I'm going to give you the disadvantages and advantages of both through that lens. But what I want to show you is that it's not necessarily black or white. And there's different variations and variety and layers that you can infuse within your coaching program structure, your scalable offer to make sure that again we prioritize profitability for the business and then client satisfaction for your clients. So at the basic level when you think of disadvantages and advantages of your traditional evergreen versus cohort Are covert bass coaching, they do tend to say, although I haven't necessarily experienced this firsthand in my coaching programs or in other people's, but the general theme, and I even hear claims say that there's a stronger community built when you take a group of claims through the process at the same time. So you could consider that. And I want to circle back to that thought, because again, I'm going to challenge everything here. Because we're always going to have variables in place. And when you make decisions, you have to make decisions through the lens of like, what is it that you're trying to solve? So I'm going to circle back to that thought. Another advantage of cohort-based coaching, if you think about it from a marketing and selling perspective, is that it can release a tiny bit of stress when it comes to enrollment and your overall promotional cycle throughout the year. So if you're only bringing on groups two, or three, or even four times a year, that means that you are going to have seasons where you're going heavier into marketing and selling for the program. And then you have seasons of just delivery. So it can feel like you have more of that riding, it's like a little bit of lift or breath. And this is only true though, if you are actually like filling your programs and meeting your revenue goals, right? Because you want to feel confident in each time you launch that program, or each time you enroll for that program, right? They're meeting your revenue goals, and you couldn't wait until the next time. So how I want to present disadvantages and advantages of both cohort and evergreen is really actually through what's being taught and see how you can actually overcome any of those dependent on what it is you're trying to achieve. We always start with the end in mind. And you could find a case for anything. If you felt really passionately about the Evergreen model, you could go online and through that bias lens, find research to backup that that's the best model and vice versa. And so it's really not about what's better or worse. It's about the bigger picture. And starting with that end in mind, where do we want to go? How are we going to get there? And then what is that roadmap? When you have a bias? Right? You're going to find research or data or feedback that's going to be in line with that bias. And so that's what I'm asking here is we have to not think about this through favoritism. It's just really about What problems are we trying to solve for? And how are we going to get there. So a common advantage that I hear about cohort-based coaching is this idea of community and that when you take a group, through the entire experience, together, they build a stronger sense of community. This is I see this research out there, I see this being taught out there or being said out there that this is an advantage of a cohort-based model is that stronger sense of community. And I also hear my clients note that when they are wanting to try cohort is because they want to build a really deep community. And there's this idea that if you do it through cohort that will be optimal. And this is where I really want to challenge that thinking. Because well, I think personally, I haven't sensed that through programs. I've been a part of cohort and evergreen. And I also haven't seen this in cohort versus evergreen in my own programs. And it's probably because we're just so good at building community that whether it's cohort or not, we're going to prioritize community. So our structure is going to foster that. And this is what I mean by challenging these thoughts, and helping you see that you can get to one result or one outcome in this sense a strong community through various ways. So that's one of the advantages I hear often being taught around cohort-based coaching programs is that the community is stronger. So even if that were true, okay, that is something to consider. Another advantage that I also hear in the industry being taught when people are promoting more of the cohort style coaching is that it gives you more sense of ease throughout the year. Are because you're only promoting and enrolling in your programs a certain times a year, right. So if you're only opening doors three times, or four times a year, let's say you have a 12-week cohort-based coaching program, you only have to open doors four times a year, that would assume that then after doors close after you get your group going, then you can take a step back, and it's ease and flow. After that. Again, I want to challenge this because if you fall into this, either way, whether you are evergreen or cohort, I want you to know that you always have to be selling. So in the cohort-based programs, yes, you're opening doors last, or you're onboarding clients less times per year, or you're running groups, right, in this more structured way. And so that may mean that you're only quote unquote, launching or opening doors, which require a little bit more effort, right, certain times a year. But the truth is, if you haven't done your due diligence through that entire year, or through that entire sort of period, in between your program enrollments, you will not have the demand or the volume to fill your next cohort. So you're always selling. And I don't know how this is so largely misinterpreted. And that's probably one of the main challenges I see coaches have in cohorts, while coaching programs is low volume. And when they go to launch or open doors, they don't fill their programs. And so if you do really want that cohort style, I don't want you to buy into the belief that you're only doing these promotional campaigns or marketing and selling efforts a couple times a year or that it's easier. And by the way, there is no easier model. And anytime we're looking for the easy path versus what will actually create the result we want. We're always going to find ourselves chasing something with the thought that I want it easier because there is no easy path. Now on the flip side of that some of the things that are often taught or sort of the advantages that are being promoted out there, and evergreen is this idea that well, I want to be able to get clients every month. So yes, absolutely, when we think of an evergreen model, that is an advantage of that structure is that you don't have to wait to open doors again. And you can onboard clients into your program every day, all day all month, which is really great. The challenge, right, or something to consider when we think about advantage is that we have to understand that if there's this perception that there's always something there to buy, theKinsey Machos:
urgency slightly goes down, right. And we just did a really great episode on urgency, which I'll link up here. And, again, this is more in line with that external circumstance that drives urgency. And so I don't want to focus too heavily on that. But in comparison to cohort based again, the common thought is that if people know that doors are closing for a while, right, then maybe the you might see increased conversions. Because that urgency really goes up, I need to either buy now or have to wait a whole year or wait a full three months, whatever that looks like. And I think, again, it's important to look at both sides and say, what are the upsides? What are the downsides and how I'm going to mitigate for that. So that's one of the core advantages of evergreen is being able to accept clients at all times. Right? The disadvantage to that is not necessarily having that external circumstance of closed door mentality that's going to maybe increase the urgency. The other advantage of evergreen that again, is being taught and or understood is that when people want to buy they want to buy now and so being able to have that option for them for your particular offer, whether program, mastermind, etc, that they can join now. So, again, there is absolutely some validity to that. And when I think of like well, what is the downside to that is that again related to urgency, right, the urgency goes down, but perhaps the desire is there because it's strong, they're like I want to buy it's time to buy I can buy now. And also, if we think about overall program brand Under strength or brand awareness, we want to build it so strong that it doesn't matter if it's available today or available next year, they're going to want it anyway. So, as you can see, what I did was bring forth these common taught ideas around advantages of these two models. And really how I came in with Well, here's a different thought of that, and how we could basically create contrast and that idea, based on right, what you're considering. So what I did there was I gave you the most common advantages as they're being taught and understood in the industry in relation to cohort versus evergreen, but actually came in as devil's advocate, and showed you how that could actually be overcome, or the contrast within that sort of thinking, because what I want to do is that you can make a case for anything. And I don't want to just tell you what to do, I want to teach you how to think. And so through this process, this is exactly what this is going to do. Because we can find advantages and disadvantages to everything. But if we're not thinking about where we're going, what we want, and how we're going to get there, we're just going to be constantly grabbing advice, or copying and pasting other people's processes and programs and trying to fit them it's like fitting, you know, a round peg in a square hole, it's going to feel like that for you. Because there's always going to feel like a disconnect. Because the decisions that were made were not made through your business model through your niche through your desires, they were made through somebody else's, and you didn't have that context. So instead of deciding what is better cohort or evergreen, what I actually want you to do is answer these questions and start to make decisions around these focus areas, which is going to drive you then towards a model that fits for you. Now, the first question I want you to ask yourself is going back to the vision, what is the vision that I have as a CEO for my company, and for my programs, this is going to feel maybe a little bit more vague if you're just getting started, or you're just starting to gear up on your scalable offer. But you should still go back to the vision. And I think a lot of you haven't even giving yourself that time and space to think about that vision. If you are in the thick of it, let's say you do already have scalable offers running, maybe you have two to three even offers in your program suite, then this question is really important in that we want to make sure that the marker hasn't changed, right? I believe that as you evolve, your vision gets more clear. And also the vision evolves itself, what I used to think the vision wise, or what I had, as a vision, you know, one year ago looks and feels a little bit different than the vision that I have. Now, just because there's the lessons learned, there's really learning what I actually want, what I actually don't want. And the only way I was able to do that was to make decisions in alignment to the vision and then really capture those lessons learned and take that and carry it over into the next season. And so when you think about the vision, then it's going to help you really feel into how you want that energy to be flowing in and out of your programs. Right? If the vision is to really only have two core offerings, you want to have a really high-level concierge service for your one-to-one coaching and one scalable offer maybe a group coaching program. And that's it for now. That's really the the vision that you could really sit into in context to, you know, doing retreats and speaking on stages and writing a book, then that gives you a starting point for thinking about how that fits into how you're promoting and selling and fulfilling on that scalable offer. So always start with the vision. Always start with the end in mind. What is the vision that I have for my company? And what is the vision that I have for my programs? The second question that is really helpful to ask yourself is even how do I flow as the CEO, I think this is really this is really like woo and a little bit more intangible. But I've noticed that this comes up a lot for me and anytime I try to do it somebody else's way. Without bringing my own or infusing my own style or energy, there's always gonna feel like there's that disconnect and it's like flow. I think that this is important and you'll win you experiences, you know, but even from a seasonal flow perspective of how do you move through the seasons of the year? How are you even moving through the seasons of your life? If you think about the season of life that you're in right now, right? If you're like me are like in the thick of Paris parenting, right? I have a kindergartener, a fifth grader, an eighth grader, which means a teenager, a preteen, and, you know, post toddler, a boy, a little boy, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. And so we have the most crazy, full life. And that puts additional constraints on what I can or cannot do from the perspective of my capacity and time. And so it's going to inform the types of decisions I'm making in general in the company, but also the structure and delivery of our programs. Again, it goes back to flow and like seasonally, and energetically, what does that look like and feel like for you? The other question to consider is, does my curriculum and or niche, so your topic, your audience, your niche in relation to this program, favor one particular structure over another. So I have a client who she is a nurse practitioner, and she has a brick-and-mortar clinic, in the community and obviously is capped out she's fully booked in that clinic, doesn't even do any organic marketing, she is so good at what she does, it does it all grows word of mouth, and she wanted to scale her impact and income through an online program. And so she actually runs this reset program. It's kind of like a detox. And it's very structured in that there's certain phases and levels of that delivery, and how these people are getting results. So it's like very specific day, zero to day 10. It's that state 10 to 13 is this, it's very, very nuanced. And so with that, she does run cohort-based coaching, and only opens her doors, three to four times a year to bring on those groups. Now. This also informs how the curriculum and the coaching and the community is, again, I could play devil's advocate here and still make a case for an evergreen model for this program. But when it comes to her and her flow, and her program, and her niche, and her seasons cohort really did make sense. And this was one of the layers that played into that when it came to this specific topic, the specific result they were getting, and how she wanted that structure to be. So there may be a nuance within your particular topic, your particular niche that would favor one over the other.Kinsey Machos:
If that is going to take highest priority for you. The other question that I want you to ask yourself is, and this is especially if you're just starting to find rhythm, in getting your scalable offer off the ground, and consistently filling it up is when what are going to be the least amount of barriers between me and my revenue goal. Now this is one where I absolutely will favor the Evergreen model, especially when you're trying to get your scalable offer tested and validated and get that brand awareness around there. In making sure that you are not constricting yourself, when it comes to making money and making that business profitable. Too often what happens is, again, we see the cohort model create too many constraints and that you have an unsuccessful launch and women are literally waiting three more months to open doors again and make money. And so if you are adamant about doing cohort, especially from the get go, then here's some things that I want you to consider. Do you have an additional offer that you could be selling when you are not opening doors for your scalable offer? So I have another client she is just now launching her scalable offer her group coaching program. And when we were designing and modeling out her scalable offer, in that she really wanted that community feel that connection with these small women. This is a very intimate topic that she is moving them through. It's a very intimate result. And she feels very strongly about keeping those groups together. And I love that. And so because though she was just getting this offer off the ground. A couple things that I asked her is, you know, do you have something out else that you could sell in between right to give you that buffer to give you that cushion? or and or do you feel comfortable given worst case scenario, this open enrollment doesn't do as well as you would thought, could you truly wait another three months to open doors again, because when it comes to a cohort-based model, what happens is if you want to try that, right, and you really want those closed door scenarios to create that urgency, and you want to be like filling your waitlist, so that you do have piles of people waiting to sign up for your program, next time you open your doors, you will have to be consistent with that. So you can't open doors and say, I'm not opening doors for another 12 weeks again, and then panic, right, you don't hit your goals. And so you open the doors, you know, next month, and then you're you switch to Evergreen, and then you were not finding rhythm there either. And you don't even get the chance to really see cohort through because cohort requires that momentum. And if you go back to this idea of always selling even in a cohort-based model, when you close doors, you go right back to Yes, right. If you have an additional offer, you're pivoting a little bit to sell your higher offer or your next offer whatever. And, and or filling that waitlist. So your content is so quote-unquote promotional and high value, but the call to action is get on the waitlist, and here's why. So if you don't let that momentum build in between cohort, I don't think you're gonna see the results that can come from that cohort-based model for awhile, right, you have to be patient with it. So going back to this idea of like, what's the least amount of barriers and constraints that I can have to get this thing off the ground, get rhythm, get tested, get validated, right, and also meet my revenue goals, do not constrict yourself at the beginning. And if you do feel so passionately about cohort-based model, then really just assess Do I have the cash flow to support me right until I get my next group? And right? Am I going to be consistent in selling always? Now lastly, I also want you to consider what is my short term plan versus what is my long-term plan, I always like to build this in. And whenever we're doing program refinement, or even new offer Burdine, one of the things we look at is from a scalable offer perspective is like it's this sniff test. So it's like, okay, this is our now with the current infrastructure that we have. But this is actually the long-term vision of it. And so we create these bridge opportunities. So if you have a longer-term vision for this program to actually be cohort-based, but you really want to get off the ground, you want to keep it evergreen, you want to keep taking clients in right, then obviously, the short-term plan is to get your clients the best optimal results through the Evergreen model, and then create the bridge plan to getting it to cohort based and what that looks like from a resource perspective, from a marketing perspective from little decisions that are going to move you through that right. And what that roadmap looks like. I think it also gives you permission to take baby steps toward that long-term plan. Sometimes if we put constraints too early on in basically like in trying to realize that longer-term vision, that's where that constraint can come into early on, which you know, going back to creating less barriers for yourself and the beginning. And it can really do you a disservice in that not giving you the lessons learned that you need to make actually like more traction, bigger momentum, more money, your primary responsibility, and I don't want to sound cool. But as a business owner, you have to have revenue, you have to have profitability. And of course with that we're also prioritizing client satisfaction. But one cannot exist without the other. Right? You cannot have client satisfaction if you don't have clients. And so we always have to be thinking about profitability at the forefront and getting revenue in. And so I'm usually one to at least encourage evergreen getting started. But again, there's nuances to all of that there's anomalies to all of that it's really dependent on what is your risk tolerance? What is your cashflow look like? What is that long term vision? And again, what is thatKinsey Machos:
program structure when it comes to the sniff test. And this is actually even I could do a whole other episode on this. But when we think about scalable offers, we actually want to ask ourselves, could this get results for five people? And could it also get results for 100 people? And so if you think about even through the lens of enrolling clients, five clients a month versus 100 clients a month and I know that that probably sounds impossible but this is actually how I want you to think in making sure that their systems and rhythm and automations in your business to remove as much manual input as possible. And this isn't from the lens of like code making coaching automation or making your program is like you're removing the human component out of your program. That's not what I'm talking about here, what I'm talking about is that we don't want to reinvent the wheel every time you get a new client. So I did another program design, modeling out one of our other clients who has a group coaching program, she also runs cohort base based on her desires based on her niche and really the seasons of business that she rolls into. And when we're going through that, what we did was we looked at all the things along the journey that she's doing over and over and over again. So every time she runs a new cohort, she's having to re adjust the dates in the members portal to get them their content dripped. And so she's going in there manually, and like moving the dates, she's also like, reposting certain content in her community, every group that she runs, right, it's a rinse, even though she's still there kind of the same task. She's still there's so much manual that goes into her running a group. So what she was feeling was that this is awesome, I have a full group, right. But I am still working so hard in this program when it's running. And it feels like so much work for me. And that is not what we want, what we want is for you to literally feel like all you have to do is show up to your live coaching calls and everything else is running really smoothly. Of course, there's going to be nuances within that. But that's how I want you to think and that everything's just humming along in that you have automations and systems and processes around each component of your program that is either literally automated, or your team is doing the more manual work. So we have, you know, if we go back to this example of my client who has to go in and update the dates for when the content is dripped for that upcoming group, right? That is actually a standard operating procedure, right, which is every time we get a new group, go into portal, update dates in accordance to right the drip dates, etc, etc, which we can know like on the first week, they get week one, so we would have a sop around that. But she wouldn't be the one to actually do the work within the SOP, it's a standard operating procedure, right? It gets delegated to her assistant, and anybody that's in that position, right can come in and do that work really, really effortlessly so that you sign your group, you literally walk away and you show up to your coaching call. But we found so many other areas where it was like a lot of reinvention and manual type of thinking and effort. And so she found she was actually getting burned out by her group program. So this is how we want to look even from that sniff test and scalability, because that is the key component here. A lot of people look at their group coaching programs at a very surface level, and are thinking longer term. And really that infrastructure for scalability, because you can put hundreds of people in your offers and not tamper the service or the quality. And when we started thinking about the fact that like I don't, I want to remove myself from the weeds, right, you're going to be making better decisions and start putting systems in place that could actually allow you to do this. Now a couple of other questions that I want you to ask yourself and answer for yourself are really more program like deliverables that are going to drive more effective decisions around this area, whether you're considering cohort or evergreen, right, or even a blend of both. So how do I want my clients to experience the curriculum? Right? So there's even a further nuance there that you can drip the content, whether it is cohort or evergreen, this is still an option, you can drip the content. So they're only getting their curriculum, right during certain periods of time. However, right maybe you don't want them to only get little bits and pieces you want them to come in and binge but when you ask questions like this, right, how do I want my clients to experience the curriculum versus should I be cohort or evergreen, you're going to get a very, very different answer and such a greater result when it comes into the way that you structure your program. In relation to that, how do I want my clients to experience the coaching? Right? What is best and optimal structure for me to coach my clients? Do they get coaching once a week? Is it several times a week? Is it different types of expertise? Right if you have listened to any of my scalable offers trainings or episodes, we think about scalable offers through three pillars evergreen or sorry Coaching community and curriculum. Those are the three elements that really make up a really robust, scalable offer. But within that you can structured all three of these components very differently. It just depends on how you want them to experience it, and what is going to be most useful to them to get them the result they're looking for. So how do I want them to experience the curriculum? How do I want them to experience the coaching? And how do I want them to experience the community. So this goes back to even our earlier example of the strength of the community really elevates, the skill will offer all together. And I do believe that you can have a really, really strong community, whether it is evergreen, oak, or cohort. And if we through the lens, if you know you want evergreen, but you're kind of stuck in this thought that cohort is the best way for community, then you get to ask yourself a better question, how do I strengthen the community in my evergreen structure, so that they can really really achieve their best, you know, results through community and collaboration and connection, that's going to offer you a very different solution, again, than asking this very broad question cohort or evergreen. So those are more detailed elements of your structure and your scalable offer that you can run through in how do I want my clients to experience this, and it's gonna give you so much more color. And all of those together, all those questions that I prompted you in, are going to drive you towards a structure and a rhythm in your program. And it may be a blend, and this is why I want you to get out of this dichotomy of cohort or evergreen. And I also want you to kind of remove the noise because there's a lot of you have to do it this way to be successful, or you have to do it that way to be successful. And it's putting you in the driver's seat as the CEO, as the best advocate for your clients because you know them better than anyone else. And it gives you that control to structure the best optimal result for your clients, which I love so much. And they want you to be thinking at a higher level and solving problems at a higher level and know what you're actually solving for. So it's less important, what's cohort versus evergreen, and more important of how do I want my scalable offer to look and feel, and how can I structure it in the best way so that my clients are getting bigger, better, faster results, this is going to yield us such a better solution, such a better roadmap for you, your company and your clients, and really put you in the seat of that CEO in making such amazing, beautiful decisions. So I love this conversation so much. And we could take this in so many different layers in so many different angles. But this is exactly the work we do with you inside of launch like a queen. And really making sure that your offer is structured in the way that you want it to be instead of structuring it the way you think you should be. And always in alignment to profitability and client results. Those are the two things that we're really solving for. And again, it's going to be unique in your life, your business, your desires, your clients. So we really want to put that we want to put those filters on and start making decisions in alignment to that greater vision. So I hope this was useful to you. And I hope this gives you some really good ideas of the possibilities here and how you can think in this context in a different way now, and I hope that I've equipped you with the right tools here to really make better decisions, because that is the best skill you can build as CEO. So hope you enjoyed. See you next time. Hey, you, thank you so much for listening. It's an honor to be able to pour into the hearts and minds of like-minded entrepreneurs all over the world. But my most favorite part is being able to connect with you in real life. If you love what you heard here, head over to the community where thousands of female CEOs just like you are changing the world one human at a time. We go deeper into the topics you discuss here and give away tangible roadmaps to help you crush your revenue goals to join this high-caliber free community head over to Kinseymachos.com/community. I’ll see you there