Shownotes
I have a very special guest who's pushing the boundaries of the coffee industry – Maya Crowley, the passionate and driven owner of Uncommon Coffee in Vermont.
Maya brings a new narrative to the scene with her fresh take on the oft-overlooked Robusta bean and her dedication to carving a space for minority voices in the globally-loved beverage. But it's not just coffee that stirs her soul – Maya is also an aspiring writer, an entrepreneur with a compelling family heritage, and even dreams of outwitting, outplaying, and outlasting on Survivor come 2025.
TL;DL
Perseverance in Entrepreneurship - Maya Crowley's journey from managing a bustling cafe in Burlington to navigating the challenges of opening her own business amid the pandemic demonstrates the resilience and determination it takes to succeed as an entrepreneur in the coffee industry.
The Power of Community - The tale of Maya's venture in Essex, bolstered by a vision for a rejuvenated strip mall and a strong sense of hometown connection, exemplifies the critical role community support plays in the success of small businesses.
Shared Struggles - Both Maya and I have faced personal and professional battles, finding solace and purpose in their work within the service industry. Their experiences underscore the common hardships many people face and how work can act as a refuge and a source of strength.
Specialty Coffee Advocacy - Despite the popularity of Arabica, Maya enlightens listeners on the uniqueness of Robusta beans and advocates for a broader appreciation and understanding, challenging the coffee industry’s educational and taste biases.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Overcoming adversity and finding the strength within.
05:35 Reflecting on challenges faced and personal growth.
13:09 Hometown business owner expands to the revitalized area.
17:59 Immigrant parents joke about going to school.
24:23 New Survivor contestants value control of information.
28:24 Accessibility to connect altered relationships.
33:20 Positive community response, collaborations, and hosting events.
39:39 Focus on measurable goals outside of scores.
43:24 Essential book for roasting Robusta coffee beans.
52:22 Emphasizing genuine intention, and community building in coffee.
58:19 Barista competitions favor money over skill. Period.
59:49 Competition framework dictates coffee scoring limitations.
Follow the podcast on Instagram!
2024 Best Podcast Nominations
*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy
*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News
My intro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: LSMVDPBXNKA1UQST
My outro music is from #Uppbeat: License code: U295XJURUTU70RHZ
Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood
Mentioned in this episode:
Buy Me A Coffee
If you like what you hear, buy me a coffee! Thanks!
Transcripts
How about you just start off by introducing yourself? I'm like, this is our first time, like, we've met too.
Maya Crowley [:That's so true. Yeah. I'm Maya Crowley. I work in coffee. No surprise there. I have a coffee shop in Vermont. I know. Right? So I have Uncommon Coffee here in Vermont.
Maya Crowley [:This is my very beautiful storage room. Love it. And I I guess that's that's really the whole thing. I have a coffee shop and roastery in a very small state here doing my thing. I've done some US barista championship stuff, and I'm like, I don't know. I'm out here.
Elena [:No. That's fine. So I guess so just to recap, do you roast yourself then?
Maya Crowley [:Me, personally, no. Okay. No. I pay someone to do that. I have roasted. Roasted. I learned how to roast. Mhmm.
Maya Crowley [:I really hated it. You know? I got into coffee because I'm a social person, and I stay that way. I like data. I like cupping with roast curves. Mhmm. But I could never be a full time production roaster.
Elena [:That's fair.
Maya Crowley [:That job is very hard.
Elena [:Oh, I feel like after a certain point when you get into it, it's very muscle memory.
Maya Crowley [:I, I agree. I really hate routine.
Elena [:That'll make it too. Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:It it it would kill me. Yeah.
Elena [:Yeah. That makes sense. It it kind of does get monotonous, actually being the roaster when it comes to more of, like, the cupping and and, like, a relationship building through, like, producers and importers. That's when it doesn't get monotonous. It becomes actually more familiar. But I
Maya Crowley [:would agree with that.
Elena [:I guess, like, what what started you on the journey for wanting to have your own place?
Maya Crowley [:That's actually interesting. So before I ever worked in coffee, I worked in restaurants for a
Elena [:long time. Service industry. Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:Well, basically, you know, I dropped out of college. I needed a job. 2. Dropped out of college, needed a job. I was horribly depressed. I had the worst year of my life. I, so many things. Let's see my that summer, like, my cat died.
Maya Crowley [:The store I worked at in high school closed. My, like, step grandfather who I was very close with died. Oh my god. Me and my boyfriend broke up. My best friend stopped talking to me. My grandma's cancer My dad got remarried that year. It was like it was like so many things. And I remember, like, being 19, I'd wake up in my, like, very purple childhood bedroom, and I would just I felt like every day I just laid there in bed.
Maya Crowley [:Right? I was, like, deeply
Elena [:in it. You were you're only 19 when this was happening?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. I was 19. So then I was
Elena [:like crazy.
Maya Crowley [:I was like, okay. Well, I have to do something. I can't just lay in my purple bedroom every day, unfortunately. Yeah. And so I, I had, like, applied to a couple of jobs, and I ended up getting this job at this burrito shop, in my town. It was actually super weird. I remember, like, opening my slide up phone, and I had a voice mail. And the voice mail was like, can you come in for an interview at 3 o'clock today? And it was, like, 2:30.
Maya Crowley [:And I was like, mom, we have to leave right now. Yeah. I couldn't drive yet, so I was like, we gotta go. And she was like, okay. So I went in. I got that job. And and at the time, it was like, I poured everything I had into that job because it was the only thing in my life that I had any control over, like, how it was happening. So I was just like, this is something I can, like, make sure goes well.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna do my damn best Mhmm. And it's gonna go well. And it did. It was really nice. I, I worked for that company for a few years. I moved to Boston to, like, work at a newer restaurant for them. And, it was a really, really great experience.
Maya Crowley [:I worked in restaurants for several years after that. I don't know, I loved baking in high school. So I always had this idea that I would, like, open a cafe and bakery, which was weird because, like, I don't think I drank coffee until I worked in coffee. But I had this thing. I was like, yeah. One day I'll open a cafe and bakery.
Elena [:Oh, shit. I didn't know you were gonna keep going.
Maya Crowley [:I mean, I could've.
Elena [:No. I mean, like, this is a this is a mic to you moment. Like, you never have to stop yourself when you wanna tell your story. I will say that listening to your 19 year old self, I really relate in a very scary amount of fucking comparison towards, like, tragedy over suffering over tragedy. But guys, when I was 19, I had a lot of those same similarities in a sense. Like, I got kicked out of school. Shortly after that, my grandfather had passed away who I was close with. I got kicked out of school for more on charges of having been sexually assaulted, and it was just, like, constant, like, I didn't know how to pick myself back up.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. So, like, I impossible.
Elena [:Yeah. Especially at that age. Like, I don't I look back on my I'm turning 28 in a month, and I'm just like, bro, how did I do that shit when I was then, and I'm over here like, I can barely pick myself up now without having a job? Because right now I'm unemployed. So it was just like, I was able to do all that other shit, and I felt like when I had more recent tragedies through, like, my most recent adult, like, later adult years, like, when I moved to where I'm at now, my mother got diagnosed with breast cancer and, like, that I was the same way though. I was just like, I'm just gonna put all of my effort into my job, especially this job that I really loved and had a lot of hope for. I was like, because of that mentality of just feeling like, this is the only thing I have, like, full control over. And I'm gonna, like, kick ass and do well because everything else around me is fucking falling apart. It's like at least this one thing I have, like, variables to to succeed and choose to do well and then say that, like, I tried my best.
Maya Crowley [:Totally. And like, there's always something new to learn at any job. Yeah. So you can always just be like, teach me the next thing. Let's go.
Elena [:So what was the process then from, obviously, what happened to you when you were 19 to obviously going through, like, service industry stuff? Like, what were first steps after that that you were like, okay, I'm determined to start building a place for my own.
Maya Crowley [:It was luck. It was largely luck. Mhmm. So I, you know, I did the restaurant management thing for for years. And I really loved that. It was grueling. It was so intense. I mean Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:It was a lot of I from when I was, like, 19 until I was, like, in my mid twenties, I just remember having a lot of periods of time where I was, like, working 70 to 80 hours a week. And I was like, this is fine. I'm just, like, out here doing it. And I feel like when you're that age, you kind of, like, don't. And when you're in the service industry, let's put that caveat there, You learn not to process shit as it is happening to you. It's either that You're taught yeah. You're taught, like, do not deal with it. Just repress everything.
Maya Crowley [:Put it all Or use substances. Feed box. I never did that.
Elena [:Well, good for you because it's Good for me. Everywhere in the service industry.
Maya Crowley [:It is.
Elena [:To just, like, drink away your your fucking tiredness, your problems, and everything.
Maya Crowley [:Yep. That wasn't that wasn't for me. But I I also like, I've only been drunk once. And it was really terrible. And there's a reason I've only done it once.
Elena [:That's fair. I mean, like, yeah. That's fair.
Maya Crowley [:I mean, people do it. Yeah. But yeah. I don't know. I mean, I did that whole restaurant management thing. And then when I moved back to Vermont from Boston I hated Boston. It was it was terrible. Like, no shade to the city itself.
Maya Crowley [:But for me, living there was wrong. It was just like you go through life, you see other people, and if you make eye contact with them, something weird happens to you. And growing up in Vermont with 600,000 other people, you look at everyone else, you wave at everyone else, you smile at everyone else.
Elena [:Oh, I see.
Maya Crowley [:There's just a very difficult
Elena [:Oh, I see.
Maya Crowley [:Adjustment to make. Yeah.
Elena [:It's a lot. Lot of weirdness happened to me. Similar to, well, slightly to, like, more midwestern culture then of, like, saying hi and, like, being friendly and and kinda just, like, how are you today? Like, the weather. Wah wah wah. And a lot of city Exactly. A lot of city folk are very much, like, keeping to themselves, don't stare at each other unless you're trying to start something. And it's, like, yeah. It's very 2 different cultural lifestyles lifestyles there.
Maya Crowley [:It kinda makes sense to me. I'm kinda like, well, if there are so many people around you, like, the population is so dense, then, like, the value of each individual is less. Right? Yeah. That's what I always think anyway. I'm like, that kinda makes sense. But I couldn't do it. And, I happened to get a job with my old boss from the job that I got originally when I was so depressed when I was 19. And it was at a restaurant that was also a cafe.
Maya Crowley [:And one of the weird things about that place it was a great job. One of the weird things was that a lot of people who had worked there for, like, multiple years were not allowed to use the espresso machine. And and it was always like, oh, well, it's a however many $1,000 machine. Mhmm. Not just anyone can use it. And so, obviously, I made it my personal mission to learn how to make espresso drinks. I was like, I'm gonna use that machine, like, next month. Like
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:I'm gonna be making drinks. Come on. So, I had that victory. I really loved it. And I I also liked the culture of, like, cafe people a little more. I also noticed that you can never stop learning about coffee. Like, I wanna just learn everything right away.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:I remember, like, asking my coworkers to hang out and just, like, talking about coffee with them, which was which was weird. You know? I feel like, let's hang out. Let me ask you about coffee right now.
Elena [:With a gel.
Maya Crowley [:I'm sure they love that. Yeah. And then eventually, I ended up working at this one cafe in downtown Burlington, which if anyone has ever been to Vermont who's listening, is the city. It's the one city. Hope you liked it. And it was great. I mean, it was probably one of the busiest cafes in Vermont, if not the busiest, at the time. And it'd been there for, like, over 20 years.
Maya Crowley [:And eventually actually, the way I got that job was was very funny. I remember walking into the cafe one day, and I had left the other coffee job to work as a restaurant manager again for more money because we all love money
Elena [:Right.
Maya Crowley [:If we are poor. Yep. And, I walked into the cafe one day. My friend Kenna was working there. And she was like, how would you like a job? And I was like, Kenna, I have paid time off. I have a 401 k. I have, like, a generous bonus structure and salary. I am not gonna take a minimum wage job at this cafe.
Maya Crowley [:Cafe. And so I went home, and I wrote Kenna an email. And I was like, yeah. I would like a minimum wage job in this cafe. Plea like, please. So so that happened. And and it was really lovely. It was a great job.
Maya Crowley [:The people were really awesome. I learned a lot. I grew a lot. And, eventually, I became the manager there. And then when the owner was kinda ready to retire and she was she was, like, the loveliest person. So, so nice. She was kind of like, hey. Like, why don't you do something? You know? And I guess I mean, I was just kind of in the right place at the right time.
Maya Crowley [:So initially, we thought like, yeah, we'll just I'll just take over here and everything will be the same. We met with the landlord there and he was like, cool. It's gonna be $12 more for rent every year. I was like, we cannot afford a $1,000 more rent a month for rent. Like, that's an insane increase. Yeah. And he was like, okay. I'll find somebody else.
Maya Crowley [:So, I came out to one of our business neighbors owned a business in Essex, which is my hometown, and had come by the cafe talking to the the owner of the store I worked at. And she was like, how would you like to open a second location? And so, of course, my boss is like, well, I'm retiring, but, like, here's Maya. And I came out and met with with the landlord here where I am now, and he explained to me that his vision for this is like a we're kind of in like a strip mall that's been rejuvenated. So growing up, it was the Essex outlets. It's now the Essex experience. And there was nothing here. Like, there was really, really nothing. I think there was like a Brooks Brothers, a Van Heusen, like, stores that just are dead.
Maya Crowley [:They're dead. There's nothing. They mean nothing to anybody pretty much. And he explained his vision of putting all small businesses in this plaza. And of course, this being the town I grew up in has, like, a lot of of meaning to me Yeah. That the town has stuff going on. And it's also the town, like, my dad came to when he settled in the US as a refugee. So his foster family is here.
Maya Crowley [:And I was like, okay. Like, I'll do that. And then we talked for a while, and now he's he's my business partner too, which is great. And, it worked out. It worked out with the caveat that COVID 2020, 2021, like, early COVID really, really was hard. It was very hard. It really sucked. Because we started, like, trenching out the floors in the space and stuff in, like, late 2019.
Maya Crowley [:So we were not nearly ready to be open. And we did not open for a long time.
Elena [:Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. How many people on the show have opened their businesses during COVID? Like, I loved there must have been something going on in the cosmos during that time for, like, everybody to just be inspired to kinda, like, take it upon themselves to be, like, an entrepreneur.
Maya Crowley [:I think it's like you have nothing to lose.
Elena [:Yeah. In my brain, I'm like, I feel like there's a lot to lose with trying to put you in.
Maya Crowley [:And there still is.
Elena [:But I guess what I'm curious on is you mentioned your dad moved to Essex as a refugee. Yeah. From from where?
Maya Crowley [:From Vietnam. So my dad actually has a really interesting, like, refugee story. He so his his family is from Saigon, from Ho Chi Minh City. And his dad, he's one of, like, 8 or 9. There there are a lot of kids. And he was the oldest boy in his family, and he has many older sisters. So when he was born in Vietnam culturally, it's like a huge deal at the time for you to, like, have a son. Right? Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:So they had a son and they were like, oh, my gosh. Finally, a son. That's great. And, his dad worked for the government in South Vietnam. And so they had they were my understanding is that they were, like, pretty well off. Pretty well off, pretty well respected, and lived a nice, comfy life there. And he was kind of at the age where he would have been sent to fight in the war. Mhmm.
Maya Crowley [:So he they paid off this guy, this, I think, like, a Cambodian guy. He's writing a book. So I'm sure I'll read it. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. He's an educator now.
Maya Crowley [:He, is writing a book targeted for their, like, middle school age group about his refugee experience to teach them about, you know, refugees
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:As one does. And so he they paid off this guy. He my dad spent a long, long time permanently damaging his skin to pass as this guy's son because he needed to be darker.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And they smuggled him across the border into Laos. And from then, he was on his own on foot. So he, like, traveled on foot through, like, Laos, Cambodia, and drifted from refugee camp to refugee camp until finally he took a took a plane to Vermont after he was able to get some aid. So
Elena [:Dude, that's fucking crazy.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. I have I actually have, like, a a map and, like, a whole newspaper article about it that, my mom's hometown published in, like, the eighties.
Elena [:See, immediately, a joke came into my my mind where it's like I was like somebody who also grew up with immigrant parents. Like, we'd complain in the morning being like, I don't wanna go to school. And then your parents would be like, I walked from home to school. And that was the first joke that came into my brain. And I was like, should I say this out loud? Should I not say this out loud? But I find it a flat. I was I'm glad you found that funny. That's where we're like that was like, I really that was more of a joke. But that's amazing.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. And and, you know, my dad has been kind of I think he has maybe he'll get mad at me for saying it's not a podcast, but we have a good relationship now. But, yeah, I think he has this, like, refugee trauma where he has trouble staying in one place for a long time.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:So the I mean, the dude has moved, like, every other year of my life. And, he's he's a great he's a great guy. He wasn't around a lot when I was growing up, but I don't wanna minimize, like, the struggles he went through. Like, especially being in an interracial marriage in Vermont was really really
Elena [:hard for him.
Maya Crowley [:And he like, his school district that he was teaching at, like, he faced a lot of discrimination and needed to, like, to leave. Yeah. So he's been all over the US. He's been in California for several years now. I have I have a half sister now who's, like, 7, which is really sweet. Mhmm. And she's full Vietnamese. But he definitely still moves a lot.
Maya Crowley [:But all in the same area now. So I feel like it's more stable for her, which is great.
Elena [:Yeah. So wow. There's a lot of contact snow coming. Are you on your own out there then?
Maya Crowley [:Oh, okay. So my mom was here until 2 Octobers ago when she moved to Mexico. So my mom is from Vermont. Your face.
Elena [:It's just like there's more and more coming out, and I'm just like, wow. I'm so interested. It's interesting. It's a very interesting, like, life story.
Maya Crowley [:Yes. So my mom is a 6 foot tall blonde woman.
Elena [:Okay.
Maya Crowley [:And, she that's not relevant to this story, but it is interesting.
Elena [:There's a good visual component to the story.
Maya Crowley [:Thank you. Visual storytelling is so important. So she just, like, I guess, probably in, like, 2015 was, like, I'm gonna move to Mexico in 5 years, she and my stepdad. And my stepdad is amazing. Like, he has lived with he lived with our family, like, me and my older sisters since I was, like, 7. And he, like, completely raised us. He taught us manners. Thank God.
Maya Crowley [:Because my mom was not gonna teach us that. My my mom and I are equally crass. So we needed someone in the household to balance that out. I wasn't crass as a 7 year old though. Let's let's calm down. So yeah. One day I just went over to her house and she was like, we're gonna move to Mexico in 5 years and I'm gonna learn Spanish. And I was like, whatever.
Maya Crowley [:Like, you're not gonna do that.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And she did. She really, like Wow. Completely learned Spanish. Like, she is fluent now and she moved to Mexico.
Elena [:With your stepdad?
Maya Crowley [:With my stepdad. And they live on the beach, and they go swimming every day.
Elena [:What the fuck?
Maya Crowley [:And yeah.
Elena [:Ro, like, your family is are just so fucking determined. Like, that's just, like, radiating through all these stories. It's just like, oh, I'm just gonna do this. Okay. Bye. So that's that's
Maya Crowley [:interesting. This is,
Elena [:like, one
Maya Crowley [:of my this is one of my leading personality traits is that I'm, super intense. Yeah. And it's definitely, like I've always kind of attributed that to, like, my dad because he also I mean, I mentioned he's an educator. He has, like, 2 master's degrees and a PhD.
Elena [:I'm leaving. Goodbye.
Maya Crowley [:Goodbye, Elena. I'm kidding.
Elena [:My god. That's crazy. Goodbye.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. He's always been the guy who's like I teased him a lot growing up because he'd always be like, I'm gonna do this crazy thing. I'm gonna do this. You know, he'd be like, I'm gonna open a restaurant. I'm gonna do this. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Whatever.
Maya Crowley [:You're not gonna do these things. And 90% of the things he didn't do, obviously. Yeah. But now I'm that guy. I'm over here, like, yeah. I'm gonna start this company. And then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go on Survivor in 2020 5. And, like, I full I fully believe that I'm gonna do these things.
Elena [:Okay. But Survivor 2025?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. I completely believe that I'm gonna go on Survivor in 2025. This is, like, this is a very important fact about me. Great. You said I
Elena [:wanna put myself through a rigorous amount of time to see if I can get out on the other end.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. I mean, it's not really about surviving, though. You know, survivor is really more about, like it's like social and strategic. So the reason I wanna go on Survivor and I think this is really fun. A lot of people, when they think about the show Survivor, they think about, like, watching Survivor and, like, season 8 of Survivor and Boston Rob and Amber, like, falling in love or whatever. Have you ever seen Survivor?
Elena [:Of course, I've seen Survivor. I've I've binge watched that show during COVID, and it was so fucking good.
Maya Crowley [:Perfect. So people think about that, and they think about, like, the old school Survivor. But when I think about survivor now, I think about, like, I think about survivor in 4 waves. So you have, like
Elena [:Yeah. Go ahead.
Maya Crowley [:Go ahead. Very old school survivor where they really value loyalty to a firm alliance. Okay? That's over. Then you have 2nd wave survivor where they're starting to value social gameplay, and they start to really value, like, big flashy moves. If you think about, like, if anyone has seen survivor Kaga Yan and they think about Tony, Tony is someone who made the biggest flashiest moves. That's, like, 2nd wave survivor. 3rd wave survivor is, like, kind of at the end of the pre pandemic era of survivor. And people are, like, not as bitter.
Maya Crowley [:Some people are starting to innovate new strategies. So if if people saw, like there's this this idea of, like, the truth bomb in survivor at the end. Right? Like, you make it to the end and you're like, my wife is pregnant or, like, my mom is dying. Those are, like, truth bombs that win you survivor. But now, post season 40 survivor is what I consider, like, the 4th wave of Survivor. And what's really valued there is, like, control of information. They're so excited to be on the show that when people get voted out, it's very rare that they're bitter about being voted out or that they're, like, upset. You know? Like, oftentimes, they'll get blindsided and they're like, oh, you guys got me.
Maya Crowley [:That was so good. And that's really fun to see. And I would love to go on Survivor because I, you know, I I I'm in my little Vermont bubble. I'm in my little coffee bubble. Both of these are really insulated spaces. Yeah. And people kind of know things about you in both of these spaces. Like, even if they don't know you, no matter who you are, they, like, know someone who knows you, they have an idea of what you might be like.
Maya Crowley [:But on Survivor, you get to meet, like, all sorts of different people and they have no preconceptions about who you are. They got nothing. They can't. So I I think that's really freeing, especially, like, you know, I'm somebody who who likes to put myself out there a lot, and I am very forthcoming with information about myself. So the idea that there's, like, this whole contained potential group of people on survivor that I could, like, meet kind of as me without any of the social constructs that I've attached to myself Yeah. Is really exciting to me.
Elena [:I love that. I love this little tangent we had about Survivor. It was great. So going back to coffee.
Maya Crowley [:Oh, gosh. Okay.
Elena [:I know that we're we'll probably sidetrack a few times. So, obviously, the story left off on the do you want a second location?
Maya Crowley [:Oh, no. Not right now.
Elena [:Well, yeah. I'm talking about, like, when you were searching for a new space.
Maya Crowley [:Oh, right. Oh, right. Right. Right. Right. That story.
Elena [:Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, the one thing about, like, your coffee shop.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. Yeah. So we I mean, we ended up opening in September 2020. We had a very, like, grueling build out here. We have a huge space. It's like 6000 square feet almost.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And I remember, like, going through during, like, summer 2020, pulling into the parking lot. The whole parking lot and the whole plaza is just empty. And I was like, this is not gonna work. There is no way that this is gonna work. And then I would come in and I'd be like, it's so much space. Like, we're never gonna have enough customers in this very small space to be full, to look full, and we're not, like, in the city. You know? We're in the suburbs.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:People don't, like, come out here. And then turns out people really wanted to connect with each other for some weird reason when they were allowed to again. And so it's been really beautiful, actually. One of the one of the biggest joys of having this space is that people will bring their book club here. Yeah.
Elena [:And they'll
Maya Crowley [:just have their book club and have some pastries and have a coffee. And then you see people, like, you see some of your regulars, like, run into each other who you didn't know knew each other, but everyone kinda knows each other. And they have these, like, really cute beautiful moments together where they're reconnecting. They haven't seen each other. And, it's been it's been awesome.
Elena [:Yeah. I was gonna say, I feel like that's been kind of a reoccurring theme that I think a lot of people now took for granted was, like, the accessibility to connect with each other back before COVID versus, like, post COVID, it was you you go from, like, something that was just a normality for who knows how many fucking years to all of a sudden, okay. So there's no cold we're going cold turkey. You're not gonna be able to talk to people. We're gonna incite fear and and all of these things about if you were to get into proximity with other people even after the fact, for the next couple years going on post COVID, it changed the algorithm of how we connect and how we communicate and how we build relationships and how we build friendships. So I would imagine that's that makes sense then, especially in a place where there's not that, like, place to do it for them. Like, especially in the suburbs, if you're saying there's really nothing out there, it makes sense that you're creating a place that brings community for the first time for
Maya Crowley [:them. Yeah. I mean, what's wild now, like, as of this year, every other space in the plaza here is full of another small business. So That's right. The vision that my business partner was like, yeah, I want it to be full of small businesses. Like, we were, I think, the 3rd small business to be like, yeah, we'll do this. Yeah. And now there's, like, you know, over 40 people who brought their small businesses out here.
Maya Crowley [:And it's been really sweet. It's so sweet. And a lot of them are people who, like, used to manage other businesses that were close to the coffee shop I worked at that shut down. So I'm like, oh, we know each other.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:We were neighbors and we're neighbors again. And that's lovely.
Elena [:Sounds like in Vermont, specifically, there's a pretty tight knit group.
Maya Crowley [:There's not a lot of people.
Elena [:I was gonna say, it seems like it's is it a positive and a negative thing?
Maya Crowley [:I think it's mostly a positive thing. I mean, you know, people say, like, oh, 6 degrees of separation. In Vermont, it's like 2, maybe 1.
Elena [:Yeah. That's fair. So, obviously, when you started the business, I would imagine you didn't start roasting first.
Maya Crowley [:We did. We roasted first. So we had from the old cafe, we had wholesale clients that we had to keep roasting for or we were gonna lose those accounts.
Elena [:Oh, so the the business as itself, when you were working in the cafe, was already a roastery then.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. Oh, okay. I guess I didn't mention that. Yeah.
Elena [:No. That's fine. That that filled in the blank. I was just thinking, like, usually when I think of, like, a cafe experience, I'm thinking, like, people are bringing in coffee from Right. Elsewhere. But that's great. But, like, I guess, how did that work with COVID when you had to do, like, roasting on a wholesale?
Maya Crowley [:What's interesting is we were still roasting out of the old space until we got our new new roaster in here and installed. So we were under this, like, enormous time crunch to, like, order the new roaster from Probat
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:Have it built, and then not have a delay for it to get here and be installed and inspected and ready to go, which was it was very challenging.
Elena [:I was
Maya Crowley [:gonna imagine. Yeah. So stressed, because it was, like, I think April was the deadline. So by the end of April, we needed to be done in the old space and we needed to be roasting independently out here. It it's not a lot of wholesale business we do. Like, it's a probably, like, 15% of our business overall.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And you know, I kinda blocked out a lot of that time. I remember staining a lot of wood by hand and, like, laying tile Yeah. And stuff. I don't really remember, like, a lot of the
Elena [:I feel like that was your brain in survival mode then. Yes. It it probably switched to, like, oh, I gotta make sure that everything's done by the certain time that you obviously weren't, like, very obsessed with the details of everything else.
Maya Crowley [:I do remember when the roaster got delivered here, we had to, like, cut out the door frame because it was too big to fit through the door. So it it got here, and we were like, That's not gonna fit. Right. So we literally just cut around the door frame, which was fine.
Elena [:You said we will get it in here at all and any cost.
Maya Crowley [:It was just what we had to do, you know? Yeah. Our one asset.
Elena [:So did you end up being able to move in before the deadline?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. We did. And that was it was it was barely, but we did it.
Elena [:Yeah. So then, how how's business been for you now?
Maya Crowley [:It's been so good. I mean, I am continually shocked at, like I think last year, we were up, like, 30% over the year before. Like, something shocking and
Elena [:That's great.
Maya Crowley [:Kind of unbelievable. And the community has been responding really, really well to us, and they continue to do so, which is great. And it's also it's also allows us to do, like, so much fun, cool stuff. You know, like, we did a collaboration with this, like, pro skater from Vermont, Cookie. We did, like, a custom coffee blend for him, and he's been somebody we've been connected to for a long time. We also have gotten to host, like, USCC prelims twice, which has been really fun. And I love, like, I love bringing coffee people to Vermont for any reason. And any of my coffee friends will know that I'm constantly, like, scheming reasons for them to come to Vermont.
Elena [:That's cute.
Maya Crowley [:It's a lovely place to visit. And we have a really sweet, community out here. Yeah. You know, I don't think I've I've mentioned this, but, like, a lot of the other cafe owners or roastery owners, are very mutually supportive of one another. And that makes a huge difference in, like, the feeling of the idea that, like, we all succeed together. Yeah. And I think a lot of a lot of cities, like, miss on this point is that you don't have to be like, oh, they're my competition. Like, I cannot talk to them.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. Because everyone's doing their own thing. They have their own ethos. They have maybe a different style of roasting, and they're in different locations. You know? So we really love supporting, supporting our peers and uplifting each other and collaborating on things. Yeah.
Elena [:I don't think I've really ever heard anything, like, culturally negative about the state of Vermont.
Maya Crowley [:I mean, there's not a lot going on. I was just wondering what you're saying. Negative things. We don't have to talk about them, though.
Elena [:So I guess from this point, you said that you competed also?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. That was, that was wild. That was it was so great. I mean, that's I think that's probably the best thing I've done in coffee.
Elena [:Oh, shit.
Maya Crowley [:Is yeah. Like
Elena [:What'd you do? Like, what did you compete in?
Maya Crowley [:So well, I mean, I've I guess I've competed twice now. So last year's season, the 2023 season, I did, the US barista championship with a full Robusta routine
Elena [:Oh, shit.
Maya Crowley [:Collaborating with Nuance Coffee Supply. And going into that, you know, I'd never competed before. I was very upfront with Sarah. I was like, I've never competed before. Yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen. I know this is weird because I have my own roastery, but do you wanna, like, do this together? And I I also in that email, I was like, I also want an anaerobic Robusta to do this with. Do you have that? And she was like, that's not weird.
Maya Crowley [:1 just landed at port this week.
Elena [:What made you wanna choose an anaerobic robusta? Curiosity? You just said, fuck it. We're gonna ball out on a Yeah. Competition. Have you had you had ever tried? You said fuck it. We're really trying new things.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. I mean, I think that's like and at that time, I think I'd only had, like, 3 other Robusta coffees.
Elena [:Yeah. And I
Maya Crowley [:was just like, you know, I love anaerobic coffees on espresso so much. They're, like, always my favorites when they're dialed in well. I love dialing them in. I love experimenting with them. And I just had this idea because you know that, like, can be fermenty, sometimes, like, acidic taste that you associate with, like, anaerobic coffees. I was just like, what would happen if it were a Rivista? Like, what happens? I was so curious. So I agreed to use this coffee that I had never tasted before.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:It was it was, like, astonishingly good.
Elena [:I was Where was it from?
Maya Crowley [:From Vietnam. So this is the other part. It's like, I really wanted to represent Vietnamese coffee.
Elena [:Bro, so many fucking interesting things. I I'm not gonna lie. It's rare to hear when people are like, I have a Vietnamese robusta that tastes really fucking good, you know?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. Yeah. So we did that. We went to qualifiers in Baltimore. And we qualified for nationals, which was like it was bananas. I mean, I cannot describe to you, like, my expectations going into this. Me and my team, I had 2 coaches, Jason Gonzalez, who owns another coffee shop in Vermont. And then one of my staff who I had supported in the the US latte art championship the prior year, Noah.
Maya Crowley [:And, we really put a lot of work into that routine. So the the concept of it was like, we're using this coffee as a bridge to introduce specialty coffee professionals to the world of FeinerBoosta. Mhmm. And Unless I could try it.
Elena [:Goddamn it.
Maya Crowley [:I have I'll send you some. I'll do it. I have it from this year.
Elena [:Hooked your girl up.
Maya Crowley [:You know I will. Well, you don't know me. You don't know I will, but I will. Yeah. So we did it. We qualified. It was shocking. It was ex so exciting.
Maya Crowley [:Like, I remember going on stage. Nobody knew how I was gonna do. I did not know how I was gonna do doing something I'd never done before. And, I remember getting off stage. This was wild too. I got off stage. I went to the backstage area. Andrea Allen is there, and she's like, how did it go? And I was like, I think it went well.
Maya Crowley [:And she was like, it sounds like it went really well. Like, she was so nice to me. Yeah. And I was so hyped, but I was playing it cool. You gotta play it cool.
Elena [:You know? Yeah. Because you don't wanna fall real hard if it doesn't
Maya Crowley [:work out.
Elena [:You know?
Maya Crowley [:Right. Yeah. And then I went up to my coach, and he was like, we're moving on. And I was like, no. We're not. Like, you cannot Right. You cannot set your expectations like that. You know, we never tied any of our goals to the outcome of the competition.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. And I think if you're doing something that far outside of the box and outside of, like, the the types of coffees that score well because that's how the judges are calibrated. Like, that's out of your control. You have to set your expectations and set your goals to things that are measurable in a different way than your score. Like, there are other things going on at competition, other goals you can have. And I think, you know, our biggest success last year is that we got, like, a a good amount of, like, attention and conversation going about tasting Robusta. So going to nationals, we did something completely different.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:Definitely didn't go as well as Qualifiers, but it didn't it didn't matter. You know, we accomplished our goals.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:We had some really, really engaging conversations. We got to taste a bunch of weird coffees and learn like, I learned so much. I continue to learn so much about, like, how to taste quality in Robusta, about taste balance in Robusta, which is it's different. Like, it's inherently different. It's curated differently.
Elena [:Yeah. I was gonna say it's a whole different, like, species of coffee, isn't it?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. And it's like it's basically like if you go in what I realize is, like, our scope of coffee, we have we're like, okay. I have a broad understanding of coffee. But what really what we have a broad understanding of is is like Arabica coffee. Yeah. It's a specific coffee. It's actually quite narrow. Yep.
Maya Crowley [:But by, like, taking this on and forcing myself to learn about something else, it's been really freeing. It's allowed me to, like
Elena [:Have a larger scope.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. And, like, you question everything and you're kind of just, like, there's this element of, like, play and coffee. Right? Where you're like, I don't have to follow any of the rules I think I know because they're all specific to this one species of coffee. And that has been, like, so so cool.
Elena [:This is so unrelated, but, like, listening to you explain it that way reminds me of, like, our study on heart disease. Like, most of the information we have on heart disease is based off of how men experience heart disease, which is why when women get scoped out for heart disease or experience symptoms, they don't always align with what we're taught are the normal symptoms. So or was it stroke? What are those 2? Either way, they're not good. Either way, you should try to prevent those from happening.
Maya Crowley [:That's true.
Elena [:But, yeah, no. How was the information with trying like, how was it seeking out information to learn about Robusta Coffee? So I feel like there's not much still on the scope of learning more about Robusta in versus Arabic or Arabica Coffee.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. There's nothing, though. It's like so it's so hard. Yeah. I mean, there there are resources. But, like, if you think about all of the tools we have to support our our coffee education, they're all based on our outer coffee and specialty. It's like, okay, flavor wheel, that's for Arabica. Right? Elevation chart, that's for Arabica.
Maya Crowley [:Harvest chart is for arabica.
Elena [:That's true. I I didn't expect so everything is different then. Like, even the flavor wheel, like, how you would experience robusta coffees? Like, you can't use the flavor wheel that we normally use for Arabica as a reference?
Maya Crowley [:It would be a I mean, it's a bad tool to use because it's not designed for what you the scope of what you could taste. So, like, great example, If you are tasting a floral taste in Robusta, it could be more in the, like, chamomile family than jasmine. Right?
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:One of my best resources I have, I keep it on my desk because I'm a nerd, is this book. It's called I would like your fruitiest, funkiest, most fermented canephyra on the menu. And it's this guy, Mick, who lives in Europe. He's a roaster and a barista there. And he wrote down all of his personal notes about every robusta he tasted That's cool. And synthesized them and talked about them and has developed, like, really a lot of helpful tips for, like, roasting Robusta as well.
Elena [:Okay.
Maya Crowley [:It's super cool. I mean, I think that's kind of what's exciting about it. It's like, you know, that feeling I talked about this a little earlier. Like, that feeling of being a baby barista and wanting learn everything all at once, like, you don't know where to start with Robusta because there's not, like, a path. You can't just be like, yeah. Tell me everything you know. Right. Your friend isn't gonna know.
Elena [:How have you dealt with people's, like so I guess this is unrelated to, obviously, the Barista competition. For you sourcing for the grocery space, do you also use Vietnamese coffee?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. So we, this this is a funny question right now. What because one of our inforters just went bankrupt. So we're like, we need to switch, basically, because we've had some issues with them, very recently. Yeah. But we've been sourcing a Vietnamese Arabica for from them consistently since we opened. And then seasonally, we will get a Robusta as a limited offering from Vietnam. And this is an interesting process because when we first looked at opening
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:I told I told my head of production, my coffee director, I was like, I want a robusta, like a fine robusta.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And I remember, like, he and I both contacted, like, every importer we could think of and explained to them, like, we're looking for a Robusta. Right. And they were like, oh, I have some, like, cheap shit that I have no information about that I can sell you as a blender. Is that what you want? And we're like, no. No. No. No. No.
Maya Crowley [:Like, we're looking for something nice.
Elena [:Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And it was so hard because nobody nobody nobody had anything. But that's I mean, that's starting to change for sure. You know? And being, like, a person who prominently used a Robusta in coffee competition, now people have started approaching me, which is really nice because it makes my life a lot easier for sourcing those coffees.
Elena [:So that you actually answered the question. I was gonna ask, like, how has the perception of you wanting to work with Vietnamese coffee had been? But you answered that already. So then my heart goes out to the farmers that were using that one importer through to get their
Maya Crowley [:their coffee.
Elena [:Like, I hope that they find another importer so that you can continue to work with them.
Maya Crowley [:So I've been thinking about that. I've been thinking, I know some people in coffee in Vietnam. And I bet you know, Vietnam's a small
Elena [:country. I was
Maya Crowley [:like, I bet I could find out, like, where this farm cluster is gonna start selling to now. So I think I'm gonna do that because, you know, we've had their coffee consistently since we opened. It's very popular in our, like, core coffee lineup. Yeah. And and I wanna keep working with them. But we don't have you know, like, we've always gone through our importer. They had, like, they had an office there in Vietnam, and we were like, great. That's so cool.
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. But now I'm like, I still want that coffee.
Elena [:Right. Obviously. Like, that's been, like, your core for I'm guessing you use a blend or is it just a single
Maya Crowley [:for your So it's I mean, it's from a farm cluster, but it's single from one farm cluster.
Elena [:Fair. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I hope that they I hope it all works out. Because I bet that hit them harder than it hit the the employees. So at this point, where would you like your company to go? Like, where would you like the coffee shop to eventually, like, turn into?
Maya Crowley [:Well, I wanna pay off our debt. That's why I'm like before I I make any moves, I wanna make sure that we, like, pay off a lot of debt, you know, as one does.
Elena [:Yeah. That's fair.
Maya Crowley [:So that's my priority is paying off debt. And then for I mean, for me personally, I have I definitely have goals, like, outside of the shop. Other you know, we talked about Survivor a little bit. That's one of my personal goals. But in order to go on Survivor, I need this shop to be okay for me to go away for, like, over a month, you know? So,
Elena [:Bro, you know how fucking crazy it would be if I just randomly saw you on Survivor, like, a year later? I'm like, I talked to that person before they got famous. So yeah.
Maya Crowley [:You're like, yeah. Before they got voted out first. So I I'm you know, I want to make sure that we have growth opportunities for employees who want it. That's very important to me. I also wanna make sure that I can I really wanna do some freelance stuff? I've been doing some writing recently, like some coffee writing. And Oh, interesting. I'm looking at ways I can kinda put that out there. Like, what's the best way for me to put that out there? Is
Elena [:there a project you're working on now?
Maya Crowley [:Yeah. I'm doing some I'm writing about Robusta a little bit.
Elena [:Awesome.
Maya Crowley [:I've reached out to some people to see if they have any interest in it. But I'm a little intimidated. I'm kinda scared because I'm not a professional writer, and I kinda write the way that I talk. And, I mean, I had an editor go through and look at it. And I think it's lovely, but it's not it's not written like it's a scientific paper. It's written, like, a little more casually. So I'm a little intimidated, but I'll get over it.
Elena [:I was gonna say narrative writing in general is the most palpable, approachable, and digestible narrative writing in general is the most palpable, approachable, and digestible way to deliver information on a a generic scope. As much as, like, you I don't know if you have, like, an expectation of what you wanted it to be versus how it's coming out. I think that it's totally okay with wanting to sound I think what you're wanting it to be is possibly more academic. So that I
Maya Crowley [:actually don't want it to be academic. But I wrote it very approachably and and then I read some other stuff from whatever publications I reached out to. And I was like, oh, maybe this is not their vibe, which it's okay if it's not.
Elena [:Oh, I see. But I
Maya Crowley [:just need to figure out, like, what is.
Elena [:Like I mean, like, there's a lot of people who publish coffee related content in different, obviously, different pros and different categories. I think that, like, what you're trying to do is great for the community and also highlighting something that doesn't have enough data as it is and giving more of insight. Because, obviously, you've obtained a book about understanding more about Robusta. It'd be great to hear about, like, your journey through Robusta and how transformative it has been for you and, like, running through trying to do more single origin and specialty coffee Robustas too.
Maya Crowley [:And like I want people to feel like they can do it. You know? Like, I want people to feel like excited about trying new robustas and like Yeah. What and, like, I want them to be curious. So that's really where I'm coming from is, like, I want to explain to people, like, how fun it's been to be able to try something new. And I want them to experience the same thing and be like, oh, I did this thing that I thought was, like, really weird, but it came out really well. Yeah. And then I I also really love, I love doing training for people. It's like my all time favorite thing is, like, teaching people.
Maya Crowley [:I don't know if it's because it's probably from my dad because he loves teaching people too. Mhmm. But, I love when people locally reach out to me and they're like, hey, we're not really a cafe. And, like but, like, we do coffee. And can you, like, help us do it better? I think that's so much fun. And I love seeing people, like, make progress in the moment and, like, learn I love doing this mean thing when I'm teaching people how to dial in espresso. Do you ever do this thing where you split the shot, like, a well dialed in shot into, like, the first, third
Elena [:Oh, the second 3rd. I've tried all that and I was like, oh, god.
Maya Crowley [:And then you're like, and now taste the first third of this shot. Yeah. And it's like so but it teaches them forever what under extracted coffee tastes like.
Elena [:I had the same thing with my mentor with roasting of just, like, trying Quakers. Like, just like and he's just like, so we're just gonna brew a whole cup of Quakers. And he's like, it's important that you know what they do into a cup. And I was just like, okay, whatever. And I was like, this shit tastes like brown bags, cardboard, and potatoes. It was
Maya Crowley [:Why did you have me do that? Yeah. But you're never gonna forget.
Elena [:Yeah. Obviously. So
Maya Crowley [:Sensory memories stick. Mhmm. When we
Elena [:don't like thinking of things in our body or in our mouth, we're not gonna fucking forget that. But it sounds like it just sounds like you're such a good hearted person. Like, a lot of your soul like, a lot of your, like, outside of the survivor thing, It sounds like a lot of what you wanna do is either educate, create community, help build up community. And it's great because I think that we need good, genuine hearted people in the coffee world like that more. I feel like a lot of the time it's so capitalist and it's so, like, business driven and, like, a lot of what you are experience like, talking about about, like, how businesses go through this cut through mentality in the city and how a lot of the time, the real message and the real story and the real people behind a lot of this stuff gets, like, washed away in the in the midst of that. And I think it's important that this is a great, like, episode to highlight a lot of what goodness can come from somebody who has a pure intention to back it up on on wanting to highlight also minority, like, voices, if if it's mostly minority voices, or if it's just, like what's the word? It's like there's not enough data on Robusta to really be able to, like Yeah. Have more people be a part of building that part of the coffee community up.
Maya Crowley [:Totally. That's so sweet, Angelina. Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, that is that's my whole thing. You know? Like, I'm here in coffee because I like the people.
Elena [:Yeah. And
Maya Crowley [:I I think one of the themes in my life is, like, I give I give people a lot of grace. And I try to understand where they're coming from all the time. And
Elena [:Mhmm.
Maya Crowley [:Does that sometimes betray me? Yes. But I think it's worth it, generally.
Elena [:Yeah. I was gonna say, I mean, like, it's better to be a good person than to be somebody who's overly skeptical of other one else everyone else. But that's also, like, my idealist values. But I guess, like, this is a perfect time now to, like, obviously shift towards a little different gear. Every episode, we have a segment on the show, and obviously, I don't know if you've listened to past episodes on the show, where it's the whole premise and it's my favorite part of the segment where we talk about your hot take. So basically, it gives you an opportunity to vocalize a hot take on the industry that you feel like needs to be brought to awareness or something that you feel like is, like, possibly controversial, whatever. So what is your hot take, Maya?
Maya Crowley [:Oh, damn. I was not prepared for this.
Elena [:It's okay to have multiple ones. So, like, I I'm never gonna limit you to 1.
Maya Crowley [:I think my hot take is that people aren't who we think they are. And what I mean by that is, like, this so this season when I competed in USBC and I did not qualify, which was fine because I had a lot of other stuff going on and I wasn't able to prepare as much, I kind of discovered that, like, whether it's you know, people have these perceptions of others And this relates back to Survivor 2, but I'll loop back to that. People have these perceptions of others that are based on, like, a macro view of things, and they neglect a lot of nuance. Whether it's you know, I think a lot of people have this idea that, like, oh, this is a weird example. Like, Onyx Coffee Lab is so powerful in competitions. Like, they're always gonna Yeah. Stomp everyone. They have so many resources, whatever.
Maya Crowley [:They're so out of touch with people. I don't think that's true. Like, I don't have any, like, significant connections to them. But, like, they're just normal people. Like, they're just normal people. They're just also doing their best. They they do dedicate a lot of their resources to competition. Like, that's their choice.
Maya Crowley [:And a lot of their success, you know, is attributed to because of coffee comps. Or, like, the other one that I came across in in USBC this season was people being, like, had hot takes about, like, latte artists. So I mentioned that that one of my coaches, Noah, is, like, a latte artist Yeah. And something that people don't know he's a latte artist all the time when we travel together at coffee events. So a lot of times people would be like, well, the latte artists who don't know how to pull a shot. And I'm like, you know, like, in general, like, like, you you know, you laugh along with that joke. You're like, so true. But, like, in general, Lotte are just really care about coffee too.
Maya Crowley [:They're not just here for the milk. Mhmm. And, like, if they're just here for the milk, why don't we care about the milk that much? I'm I'm vegan, so I don't really care about the milk that much. But I care about steaming the milk that much. And I care about the oat milk that much. Trust me. Oh. No.
Maya Crowley [:But I think it's easy to, like, reduce something to what seems larger than life about it or what's scary about it. And I think that the the truth most of the time is, like, a lot sweeter than we think it must be.
Elena [:I love this this very much, like, giving people this constant benefit of the doubt that there's always this good intention with working in different various parts of the industry. Those are very interesting. That's a very interesting, like, perspective I never really thought of. Half the time, I I I don't know much about, obviously, the the competition aspect of the coffee industry. I feel like it's a little bit too catty for me. I mean, it is.
Maya Crowley [:It's fair.
Elena [:Yeah. It feels like a bunch of like, it's like a high school gymnasium of a bunch of clicks that I just, like, feel like I have a hard time fitting in with. But that's a really interesting perspective. I feel like whenever I've watched barista competitions specifically with people from Onyx, I have felt like and I think I've said this before or somebody else has said this before on the on the podcast where it's like, I feel like competition wise, I wish people would stop using Geishas. Yeah. And I feel like it's always there's just there's certain resources that are exploited at the point where other people who don't have those resources do not have the chance to be on the same bar for just skill alone. Like, it's over it's overcome by corporation money resources over, like, the actual skill alone. I feel like competitions in general do that to a lot of, like, competitors where they're like, you're amounted to how much money you can provide for the competition, not versus how much skill, passion, and craftsmanship you have for the drink.
Elena [:And I'm not obviously, like, devaluing people who have come from, like, more money operated places. I'm just saying that it's equal opportunity. It should be equal opportunity for people. Especially I mean I've met amazing competitive baristas on the show, let alone, where they've just, like, felt like it was such a stretch, and they, like, stretched themselves thin just to be able to be there to have a lot
Maya Crowley [:of, like,
Elena [:a lot of experience. Yeah.
Maya Crowley [:And if it were a competition about, you know, who is the best barista, then everyone would be using the same coffee. But it's not, ultimately. Like, the way that the scoring works and the way that the competition is set up is the framework within which you have to work. And that's, like, ultimately, that's what you sign up for. And, you know, going in with a 100% Reboost routine, I was keenly aware of that. I think more so than a lot of competitors Yeah. Are. And knowing that there was just inherently a limit in how high my coffee could score.
Maya Crowley [:And it had nothing to do with how well I dialed it in. It just has to do with, you know, judges don't know how to taste robusta. They taste salinity in robusta, which is like not a defect in robusta, but it it can be in arabica. And they think it's a defect. But they're only working they're only doing the best they can. You know? Like, they were trained to score things a certain way. They're following their training. And maybe one day, there will be a competition where everybody gets the same coffee that morning Mhmm.
Maya Crowley [:And comes up with a drink right then. Oh my gosh. I know we're going over time. But I did a really fun competition as my prelim event, like, my after hours for fun prelim event this year, which was Chopped for Baristas, which was kind of that. Like It's
Elena [:fucking cool. I love that idea.
Maya Crowley [:It's so much fun.
Elena [:Talk about a TV show that I'd watch. No. Honestly, though, like, I feel like to wrap up on this, it's basically like I think I'm in disagreeance with you on the fact that, like, the standard is being set at a certain point. It's they're choosing to to continue with the standard versus trying to obviously adapt and try and change it.
Maya Crowley [:Oh, yeah. I think people who are choosing to do that are people who don't have our best interest in mind.
Elena [:Period. That that's a lot with that. My problem with the the political system of competing is just I'm not I I think I would love the community aspect of being at a barista competition. The semantics and the judging and and the political system and hierarchy of what's great and how it's great and what the varietal and and the genus of what you're using. I feel like that is set up and it's basically, like, hard to be the outlier and bring something refreshing and new and innovative like what you did.
