Transcripts
The Discourses of Epictetus by Epictetus
Speaker:A certain young man a rhetorician came to see Epictetus,
Speaker:with his hair dressed more carefully than was usual and his attire in an
Speaker:ornamental style;
Speaker:whereupon Epictetus said .- Tell me you do not think that some dogs are
Speaker:beautiful and some horses,
Speaker:and so of all other animals.
Speaker:"I do think so," the youth replied.
Speaker:Are not then some men also beautiful and others ugly?
Speaker:"Certainly."
Speaker:Do we,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:for the same reason call each of them in the same kind beautiful,
Speaker:or each beautiful for something peculiar?
Speaker:And you will judge of this matter thus.
Speaker:Since we see a dog naturally formed for one thing,
Speaker:and a horse for another,
Speaker:and for another still,
Speaker:as an example,
Speaker:a nightingale,
Speaker:we may generally and not improperly declare each of them to be beautiful then
Speaker:when it is most excellent according to its nature;
Speaker:but since the nature of each is different,
Speaker:each of them seems to me to be beautiful in a different way.
Speaker:Is it not so?
Speaker:He admitted that it was.
Speaker:That then which makes a dog beautiful,
Speaker:makes a horse ugly;
Speaker:and that which makes a horse beautiful,
Speaker:makes a dog ugly,
Speaker:if it is true that their natures are different.
Speaker:"It seems to be so."
Speaker:For I think that what makes a pancratiast beautiful,
Speaker:makes a wrestler to be not good,
Speaker:and a runner to be most ridiculous;
Speaker:and he who is beautiful for the Pentathlon,
Speaker:is very ugly for wrestling.
Speaker:"It is so," said he.
Speaker:What,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:makes a man beautiful?
Speaker:Is that which in its kind makes both a dog and a horse beautiful?
Speaker:"It is," he said.
Speaker:What then makes a dog beautiful?
Speaker:The possession of the excellence of a dog.
Speaker:And what makes a horse beautiful?
Speaker:The possession of the excellence of a horse.
Speaker:What then makes a man beautiful?
Speaker:Is it not the possession of the excellence of a man?
Speaker:And do you,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:if you wish to be beautiful,
Speaker:young man,
Speaker:labour at this,
Speaker:the acquisition of human excellence.
Speaker:But what is this?
Speaker:Observe whom you yourself praise,
Speaker:when you praise many persons without partiality - do you praise the just or the
Speaker:unjust?
Speaker:"The just."
Speaker:Whether do you praise the moderate or the immoderate?
Speaker:"The moderate."
Speaker:And the temperate or the intemperate?
Speaker:"The temperate."
Speaker:If,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:you make yourself such a person,
Speaker:you will know that you will make yourself beautiful - but so long as you
Speaker:neglect these things,
Speaker:you must be ugly,
Speaker:even though you contrive all you can to appear beautiful.
Speaker:Further I do not know what to say to you - for if I say to you what I think,
Speaker:I shall offend you,
Speaker:and you will perhaps leave the school and not return to it - and if I do not
Speaker:say what I think,
Speaker:see how I shall be acting,
Speaker:if you come to me to be improved,
Speaker:and I shall not improve you at all,
Speaker:and if you come to me as to a philosopher,
Speaker:and I shall say nothing to you as a philosopher.
Speaker:And how cruel it is to you to leave you uncorrected.
Speaker:If at any time afterward you shall acquire sense,
Speaker:you will with good reason blame me and say,
Speaker:"What did Epictetus observe in me that,
Speaker:when he saw me in such a plight coming to him in such a scandalous condition,
Speaker:he neglected me and never said a word?
Speaker:did he so much despair of me?
Speaker:was I not young?
Speaker:was I not able to listen to reason?
Speaker:and how many other young men at this age commit many like errors?
Speaker:I hear that a certain Polemon from being a most dissolute youth underwent such
Speaker:a great change.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:suppose that he did not think that I should be a Polemon;
Speaker:yet he might have set my hair right,
Speaker:he might have stripped off my decorations,
Speaker:he might have stopped me from plucking the hair out of my body;
Speaker:but when he saw me dressed like- what shall I say?
Speaker:- he kept silent."
Speaker:I do not say like what;
Speaker:but you will say,
Speaker:when you come to your senses and shall know what it is and what persons use
Speaker:such a dress.
Speaker:If you bring this charge against me hereafter,
Speaker:what defense shall I make?
Speaker:Why,
Speaker:shall I say that the man will not be persuaded by me?
Speaker:Was Laius persuaded by Apollo?
Speaker:Did he and get drunk and show no care for the oracle?
Speaker:Well then,
Speaker:for this reason did Apollo refuse to tell him the truth?
Speaker:I indeed do not know,
Speaker:whether you will be persuaded by me or not;
Speaker:but Apollo knew most certainly that Laius would not be persuaded and yet he
Speaker:spoke.
Speaker:But why did he speak?
Speaker:I say in reply .- But why is he Apollo,
Speaker:and why does he deliver oracles,
Speaker:and why has he fixed himself in this place as a prophet and source of truth and
Speaker:for the inhabitants of the world to resort to him?
Speaker:and why are the words "Know yourself" written in front of the temple,
Speaker:though no person takes any notice of them?
Speaker:Did Socrates persuade all his hearers to take care of themselves?
Speaker:Not the thousandth part.
Speaker:But,
Speaker:however,
Speaker:after he had been placed in this position by the deity,
Speaker:as he himself says,
Speaker:he never left it.
Speaker:But what does he say even to his judges?
Speaker:"If you acquit me on these conditions that I no longer do that which I do now,
Speaker:I will not consent and I will not desist;
Speaker:but I will go up both to young and to old,
Speaker:and,
Speaker:to speak plainly,
Speaker:to every man whom I meet,
Speaker:and I will ask the questions which I ask now;
Speaker:and most particularly will I do this to you my fellow-citizens,
Speaker:because you are more nearly related to me."
Speaker:Are you so curious,
Speaker:Socrates,
Speaker:and such a busybody?
Speaker:and how does it concern you how we act?
Speaker:and what is it that you say?
Speaker:"Being of the same community and of the same kin,
Speaker:you neglect yourself,
Speaker:and show yourself a bad citizen to the state,
Speaker:and a bad kinsman to your kinsmen,
Speaker:and a bad neighbor to your neighbors."
Speaker:"Who,
Speaker:then are you?
Speaker:" Here it is a great thing to say,
Speaker:"I am he whose duty it is to take care of men;
Speaker:for it is not every little heifer which dares to resist a lion;
Speaker:but if the bull comes up and resists him,
Speaker:say to the bull,
Speaker:if you choose,
Speaker:'And who are you,
Speaker:and what business have you here?
Speaker:'" Man,
Speaker:in every kind there is produced something which excels;
Speaker:in oxen,
Speaker:in dogs,
Speaker:in bees,
Speaker:in horses.
Speaker:Do not then say to that which excels,
Speaker:"Who,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:are you?
Speaker:" If you do,
Speaker:it will find a voice in some way and say,
Speaker:"I am such a thing as the purple in a garment - do not expect me to be like the
Speaker:others,
Speaker:or blame my nature that it has made me different from the rest of men."
Speaker:What then?
Speaker:am I such a man?
Speaker:Certainly not.
Speaker:And are you such a man as can listen to the truth?
Speaker:I wish you were.
Speaker:But however since in a manner I have been condemned to wear a white beard and a
Speaker:cloak,
Speaker:and you come to me as to a philosopher,
Speaker:I will not treat you in a cruel way nor yet as if I despaired of you,
Speaker:but I will say .- Young man,
Speaker:whom do you wish to make beautiful?
Speaker:In the first place,
Speaker:know who you are and then adorn yourself appropriately.
Speaker:You are a human being;
Speaker:and this is a mortal animal which has the power of using appearances rationally.
Speaker:But what is meant by "rationally?
Speaker:" Conformably to nature and completely.
Speaker:What,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:do you possess which is peculiar?
Speaker:Is it the animal part?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Is it the condition of mortality?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Is it the power of using appearances?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:You possess the rational faculty as a peculiar thing - adorn and beautify this;
Speaker:but leave your hair to him who made it as he chose.
Speaker:Come,
Speaker:what other appellations have you?
Speaker:Are you man or woman?
Speaker:"Man."
Speaker:Adorn yourself then as man,
Speaker:not as woman.
Speaker:Woman is naturally smooth and delicate;
Speaker:and if she has much hair (on her body),
Speaker:she is a monster and is exhibited at Rome among monsters.
Speaker:And in a man it is monstrous not to have hair;
Speaker:and if he has no hair,
Speaker:he is a monster;
Speaker:but if he cuts off his hairs and plucks them out,
Speaker:what shall we do with him?
Speaker:where shall we exhibit him?
Speaker:and under what name shall we show him?
Speaker:"I will exhibit to you a man who chooses to be a woman rather than a man."
Speaker:What a terrible sight!
Speaker:There is no man who will not wonder at such a notice.
Speaker:Indeed I think that the men who pluck out their hairs do what they do without
Speaker:knowing what they do.
Speaker:Man what fault have you to find with your nature?
Speaker:That it made you a man?
Speaker:What then?
Speaker:was it fit that nature should make all human creatures women?
Speaker:and what advantage in that case would you have had in being adorned?
Speaker:for whom would you have adorned yourself,
Speaker:if all human creatures were women?
Speaker:But you are not pleased with the matter - set to work then upon the whole
Speaker:business.
Speaker:Take away- what is its name?
Speaker:- that which is the cause of the hairs - make yourself a woman in all respects,
Speaker:that we may not be mistaken - do not make one half man,
Speaker:and the other half woman.
Speaker:Whom do you wish to please?
Speaker:The women?
Speaker:,
Speaker:Please them as a man.
Speaker:"Well;
Speaker:but they like smooth men."
Speaker:Will you not hang yourself?
Speaker:and if women took delight in catamites,
Speaker:would you become one?
Speaker:Is this your business?
Speaker:were you born for this purpose,
Speaker:that dissolute women should delight in you?
Speaker:Shall we make such a one as you a citizen of Corinth and perchance a prefect of
Speaker:the city,
Speaker:or chief of the youth,
Speaker:or general or superintendent of the games?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:and when you have taken a wife,
Speaker:do you intend to have your hairs plucked out?
Speaker:To please whom and for what purpose?
Speaker:And when you have begotten children,
Speaker:will you introduce them also into the state with the habit of plucking their
Speaker:hairs?
Speaker:A beautiful citizen,
Speaker:and senator and rhetorician.
Speaker:We ought to pray that such young men be born among us and brought up.
Speaker:Do not so,
Speaker:I entreat you by the Gods,
Speaker:young man - but when you have once heard these words,
Speaker:go away and say to yourself,
Speaker:"Epictetus has not said this to me;
Speaker:for how could he?
Speaker:but some propitious good through him - for it would never have come into his
Speaker:thoughts to say this,
Speaker:since he is not accustomed to talk thus with any person.
Speaker:Come then let us obey God,
Speaker:that we may not be subject to his anger."
Speaker:You say,
Speaker:"No."
Speaker:But,
Speaker:if a crow by his croaking signifies anything to you,
Speaker:it is not the crow which signifies,
Speaker:but God through the crow;
Speaker:and if he signifies anything through a human voice,
Speaker:will he not cause the man to say this to you,
Speaker:that you may know the power of the divinity,
Speaker:that he signifies to some in this way,
Speaker:and to others in that way,
Speaker:and concerning the greatest things and the chief he signifies through the
Speaker:noblest messenger?
Speaker:What else is it which the poet says - For we ourselves have warned him,
Speaker:and have sent Hermes the careful watcher,
Speaker:Argus' slayer,
Speaker:The husband not to kill nor wed the wife.
Speaker:Was Hermes going to descend from heaven to say this to him?
Speaker:And now the Gods say this to you and send the messenger,
Speaker:the slayer of Argus,
Speaker:to warn you not to pervert that which is well arranged,
Speaker:nor to busy yourself about it,
Speaker:but to allow a man to be a man,
Speaker:and a woman to be a woman,
Speaker:a beautiful man to be as a beautiful man,
Speaker:and an ugly man as an ugly man,
Speaker:for you are not flesh and hair,
Speaker:but you are will;
Speaker:and if your will beautiful,
Speaker:then you will be beautiful.
Speaker:But up the present time I dare not tell you that you are ugly,
Speaker:for I think that you are readier to hear anything than this.
Speaker:But see what Socrates says to the most beautiful and blooming of men Alcibiades
Speaker:- "Try,
Speaker:then,
Speaker:to be beautiful."
Speaker:What does he say to him?
Speaker:"Dress your hair and pluck the hairs from your legs."
Speaker:Nothing of that kind.
Speaker:But "Adorn your will,
Speaker:take away bad opinions."
Speaker:"How with the body?
Speaker:" Leave it as it is by nature.
Speaker:Another has looked after these things - intrust them to him.
Speaker:"What then,
Speaker:must a man be uncleaned?
Speaker:" Certainly not;
Speaker:but what you are and are made by nature,
Speaker:cleanse this.
Speaker:A man should be cleanly as a man,
Speaker:a woman as a woman,
Speaker:a child as a child.
Speaker:You say no - but let us also pluck out the lion's mane,
Speaker:that he may not be uncleaned,
Speaker:and the cock's comb for he also ought to he cleaned.
Speaker:Granted,
Speaker:but as a cock,
Speaker:and the lion as a lion,
Speaker:and the hunting dog as a hunting dog.
Speaker:Chapter 2 In what a man ought to be exercised who has made proficiency;
Speaker:and that we neglect the chief things There are three things in
Speaker:which a man ought to exercise himself who would be wise and good.
Speaker:The first concerns the desires and the aversions,
Speaker:that a man may not fail to get what he desires,
Speaker:and that he may not fall into that which he does not desire.
Speaker:The second concerns the movements (toward)
Speaker:and the movements from an object,
Speaker:and generally in doing what a man ought to do,
Speaker:that he may act according to order,
Speaker:to reason,
Speaker:and not carelessly.
Speaker:The third thing concerns freedom from deception and rashness in judgement,
Speaker:and generally it concerns the assents.
Speaker:Of these topics the chief and the most urgent is that which relates to the
Speaker:affects;
Speaker:for an affect is produced in no other way than by a failing to obtain that
Speaker:which a man desires or a falling into that which a man would wish to avoid.
Speaker:This is that which brings in perturbations,
Speaker:disorders,
Speaker:bad fortune,
Speaker:misfortunes,
Speaker:sorrows,
Speaker:lamentations and envy;
Speaker:that which makes men envious and jealous;
Speaker:and by these causes we are unable even to listen to the precepts of reason.
Speaker:The second topic concerns the duties of a man;
Speaker:for I ought not to be free from affects like a statue,
Speaker:but I ought to maintain the relations natural and acquired,
Speaker:as a pious man,
Speaker:as a son,
Speaker:as a father,
Speaker:as a citizen.
Speaker:The third topic is that which immediately concerns those who are making
Speaker:proficiency,
Speaker:that which concerns the security of the other two,
Speaker:so that not even in sleep any appearance unexamined may surprise us,
Speaker:nor in intoxication,
Speaker:nor in melancholy.
Speaker:"This," it may be said,
Speaker:"is above our power."
Speaker:But the present philosophers neglecting the first topic and the second,
Speaker:employ themselves on the third,
Speaker:using sophistical arguments,
Speaker:making conclusions from questioning,
Speaker:employing hypotheses,
Speaker:lying.
Speaker:"For a man must," as it is said,
Speaker:"when employed on these matters,
Speaker:take care that he is not deceived."
Speaker:Who must?
Speaker:The wise and good man.
Speaker:This then is all that is wanting to you.
Speaker:Have you successfully worked out the rest?
Speaker:Are you free from deception in the matter of money?
Speaker:If you see a beautiful girl,
Speaker:do you resist the appearance?
Speaker:If your neighbor obtains an estate by will,
Speaker:are you not vexed?
Speaker:Now is there nothing else wanting to you except unchangeable firmness of mind?
Speaker:Wretch,
Speaker:you hear these very things with fear and anxiety that some person may despise
Speaker:you,
Speaker:and with inquiries about what any person may say about you.
Speaker:And if a man come and tell you that in a certain conversation in which the
Speaker:question was,
Speaker:"Who is the best philosopher," a man who was present said that a certain
Speaker:person was the chief philosopher,
Speaker:your little soul which was only a finger's length stretches out to two cubits.
Speaker:But if another who is present "You are mistaken;
Speaker:it is not worth while to listen to a certain person,
Speaker:for what does he know?
Speaker:he has only the first principles,
Speaker:and no more?
Speaker:" then you are confounded,
Speaker:you grow pale,
Speaker:you cry out immediately,
Speaker:"I will show him who I am,
Speaker:that I am a great philosopher."
Speaker:It is seen by these very things - why do you wish to show it by others?
Speaker:Do you not know that Diogenes pointed out one of the sophists in this way by
Speaker:stretching out his middle finger?
Speaker:And then when the man was wild with rage,
Speaker:"This," he said,
Speaker:"is the certain person .- I pointed him out to you."
Speaker:For a man is not shown by the finger,
Speaker:as a stone or a piece of wood - but when any person shows the man s principles,
Speaker:then he shows him as a man.
Speaker:Let us look at your principles also.
Speaker:For is it not plain that you value not at all your own will,
Speaker:but you look externally to things which are independent of your will?
Speaker:For instance,
Speaker:what will a certain person say?
Speaker:and what will people think of you?
Speaker:will you be considered a man of learning;
Speaker:have you read cry-Sip-us or Antipater?
Speaker:for if you have read Archedemus also,
Speaker:you have everything.
Speaker:Why are you still uneasy lest you should not show us who you are?
Speaker:Would you let me tell you what manner of man you have shown us that you are?
Speaker:You have exhibited yourself to us as a mean fellow,
Speaker:querulous,
Speaker:passionate,
Speaker:cowardly,
Speaker:finding fault with everything,
Speaker:blaming everybody,
Speaker:never quiet,
Speaker:vain - this is what you have exhibited to us.
Speaker:Go away now and read Archedemus;
Speaker:then,
Speaker:if a mouse should leap down and make a noise,
Speaker:you are a dead man.
Speaker:For such a death awaits you as it did- what was the man's name?
Speaker:- Crinis;
Speaker:and he too was proud,
Speaker:because he understood Archedemus.
Speaker:Wretch,
Speaker:will you not dismiss these things that do not concern you at all?
Speaker:These things are suitable to those who are able to learn them without
Speaker:perturbation,
Speaker:to those who can say - "I am not subject to anger,
Speaker:to grief,
Speaker:to envy .- I am not hindered,
Speaker:I am not restrained.
Speaker:What remains for me?
Speaker:I have leisure,
Speaker:I am tranquil - let us see how we must deal with sophistical arguments;
Speaker:let us see how when a man has accepted an hypothesis he shall not be led away
Speaker:to anything absurd."
Speaker:To them such things belong.
Speaker:To those who are happy it is appropriate to light a fire,
Speaker:to dine;
Speaker:if they choose,
Speaker:both to sing and to dance.
Speaker:But when the vessel is sinking,
Speaker:you come to me and hoist the sails.
Speaker:This has been
Speaker:The Discourses of Epictetus by Epictetus
