In this episode of 'dare to be more', host Anthony Perl speaks with Amy Murphy, Director of Professional Practice for Years 7 to 12, about how learning has evolved and what contemporary education looks like at MLC School.

Amy, who recently joined MLC School after 17 years in the public system, shares her observations about the similarities and differences between educational contexts, emphasising that at the core, all educators want students to thrive and become agents of change in the world. She explains how her role supports both students and teachers, ensuring a clear vision for teaching and learning whilst providing responsive support for teacher wellbeing and professional growth.

The conversation explores how learning today differs from previous generations, with Amy highlighting the increased agency, voice, and choice that students now have in their learning. She discusses the focus on developing dispositions and soft skills - self-awareness, self-regulation, resilience, and collaboration - alongside content knowledge, preparing students to apply learning to any context in the world.

Amy addresses the role of technology and AI in modern classrooms, explaining how MLC School has chosen to embrace rather than ban AI, using it as a tool for feedback, idea generation, and efficiency whilst maintaining critical thinking as a priority. She discusses the complexities of assessment in an AI-enabled world and how teachers are adapting their approaches to ensure authentic student work.

The episode explores the critical intersection of wellbeing and learning, with Amy emphasising that psychological safety is essential for students to show up and learn effectively. She discusses trauma-informed pedagogy, neurodiversity, and how MLC School's relational approach - where teachers truly know, see, and value their students - creates the conditions for both academic success and personal growth.

Amy shares insights into how teachers are supported through the complexities of modern education, including professional learning that is relevant, meaningful, and practical. She discusses the importance of being kind to ourselves as learners in a rapidly changing world, and how Canvas as a learning management system provides transparency for parents whilst supporting teacher efficiency.

The conversation concludes with Amy's powerful interpretation of 'dare to be more', drawing on TS Eliot's "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" and the question "Do I dare disturb the universe?" She describes the inherent restlessness to keep growing, learning, pursuing, and making change as essential to both teaching and learning.

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Host:  Anthony Perl

Production: Podcasts Done For You. For more information about podcast production services, visit podcastsdoneforyou.com.au.

What learning looks like today?

2

Welcome to Dare to Be More, the podcast

from MLC School in Burwood, Sydney.

3

Today we're exploring modern

education with Amy Murphy, the

4

director of professional practice.

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For year seven to 12, discover how

learning has evolved from yesterday's

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traditional approaches to today's

student-centered classrooms where agency

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voice and choice empower girls to thrive.

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Learn about the intersection of wellbeing

and learning how technology and AI

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are being thoughtfully integrated

and why relationships remain at

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the heart of exceptional education.

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We'll explore how MLC School develops,

not just content knowledge, but the

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character and soft skills students

need to navigate our complex world.

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I'm your co-host, Anthony Pearl.

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Let's get into today's conversation.

15

Well, hello everyone and welcome to

another episode of Dare to Be More, and

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I've got Amy with me today and we're gonna

be talking about all things relating to

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the junior and senior school and learning

and what that actually looks like today.

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It's quite a broad topic in many respects.

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So Amy, welcome to the program.

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Amy Murphy: Thank you for having me on.

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Anthony Perl: Well, I think we always

need to start off by allowing you

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to introduce yourself to everyone.

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Amy Murphy: Yeah, so hello everybody.

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My name is Amy Murphy and I am the

new director of professional practice

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for year seven to 12 at MLC School,

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Anthony Perl: you've got such a

broad area that you're covering.

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And you know, but I think we need

to start off with that kind of idea

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of what learning looks like today.

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I think in part we need to kind of

address what learning looked like

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yesterday in order to understand

what it looks like today, because

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there really is a significant shift.

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I think any parent would feel that

what the kids are doing in today's

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school is very different from what

they would've experienced in school.

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Amy Murphy: Yeah, absolutely.

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I think that's a really nice

question actually, because.

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I feel like kids today probably have

a little bit more agency and voice

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and choice in their learning, and I

think that's really powerful for their

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confidence and for their empowerment as

well to know that they can do things.

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They can do things really beautifully

as a 6-year-old, as a 14-year-old,

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and then we want them to go and do

wonderful things in the world too.

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So agency is key in our classrooms

today, which is definitely a difference

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even from when I went to high school.

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You know, having voice and choice

in how you learn and what type of

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learning suits you can be really

powerful for an individual too.

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Also, you know, there's a lot of

focus on what we call our soft

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skills or our dispositions today too.

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So we're not just growing

content in brains.

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Content is obviously very important,

but we're also trying to teach kids

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how we learn and the process of what

learning looks like so that they can then

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apply that to any context in the world.

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But you know, also, how do we grow

them in terms of their self-awareness,

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their ability to self-regulate the

resilience that is required to be

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part of such a complex world that

we've landed ourselves in right now.

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So all of those dispositions are

equally as important as to the content

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that we teach with our curriculum to

obviously a key difference in learning.

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At the moment is technology and ai.

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How will AI impact learning?

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How can we embrace AI as much

as possible to kind of leverage

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learning within our spaces?

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And our director of E-Learning, Mariana

is doing a beautiful amount of work

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with teachers in that space at the

moment, before we next roll out what

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that looks like to our students too.

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Here at MLC School, I think

what is the same though?

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Is that relationships are key to learning.

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So, you know, you hear the girls at MLC

speak all the time of how much they love

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their teachers, or you can see them in the

playground waving to their teachers or.

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Sharing jokes or stories, and I think

there's a really beautiful sense of

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relational pedagogy at MLC School, which

allows our girls to feel really safe.

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And that psychological safety now is so

important in order to allow kids to learn.

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Because if you're not

safe and you're not well.

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It's really difficult to be

able to show up and learn.

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So I think even our understanding of

how wellbeing intersects with learning

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has also come a long way from the past.

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And you know, there's so much research

into trauma informed pedagogy.

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You know, how do we really work

with kids who have really tough

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stories and complex lives?

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How do we work with neurodiversity

so that we best get the needs of that

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learner to their most success that

they could ever possibly see as well?

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So huge complexities just in the shifting

landscape of the world, as well as the

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shifting landscape of education too.

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Anthony Perl: And, and it's really

points to the fact that it's become

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much more personalized, hasn't it?

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I mean, if you think back, it

wasn't that long ago that everybody

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did exactly the same thing.

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You didn't have too many choices about it.

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And if you didn't keep up with

the Joneses as it were, then

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you were just left behind.

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But as you say, there's a whole lot of

different circumstances that for any

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individual that you need to cater for,

and they might be learning related,

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they might be cultural related, they

might be just psychologically related.

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There's a whole different elements

to consider, and I think that's an

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important aspect, isn't it, of the

school, that there are a lot of choices

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and there's a lot of opportunities.

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For personalized attention.

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Amy Murphy: Oh, absolutely.

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I mean, that's probably, you know, one

thing that has really blown me away is

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the amount of opportunities here for

the girls, but also, yeah, opportunities

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in classrooms to show up as they are.

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And the teachers do such a beautiful job

of meeting them exactly where they're at.

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So there's high expectations across

the school, which is obviously what

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we want, but those expectations

are different depending on.

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You know how girls come to our classrooms,

what their histories are, what they

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imagine their futures to be as well, and

I think that's the only way it can work

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is when we really actively listen and then

shape education up around individuals.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah, and I think

that's provides its challenges

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for teachers as well, doesn't it?

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To be able to cater for that

level of individual care.

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Amy Murphy: Absolutely.

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The complexities that teachers face today.

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Are huge in their classroom spaces,

you know, and they do such a phenomenal

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job to know kids really well.

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So I think it comes back to that

relational pedagogy, knowing your students

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in front of you, knowing how they learn,

having a whole toolbox of strategies

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that are supported by evidence to be able

to get kids to where they need to be.

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Anthony Perl: Talk to me a little

bit more about the technology

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and how that's coming into play.

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I mean, we talk about AI and I know

we've had some other discussions on

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other episodes of the podcast talking

specifically about some of those

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examples, but just at a high level, the

complexities of having to deal with that.

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Both from a teacher perspective

and a student perspective?

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Amy Murphy: Yeah, I think ultimately,

you know, AI can be a beautiful friend

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and a beautiful critical friend in a way

to get feedback on paragraphs that they

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might be writing in English ahead of.

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Learning and teaching today

gave a marker workshop.

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I meet the marker workshop for year

12 students who've just finished their

126

trials and she said, you know, like,

use AI pop in the last few questions

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from the HSC Pop in the rubric.

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Figure out what we haven't

asked in the HSC and see what

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questions come out from that.

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So there's some really beautiful work

in relation to making it work for you.

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But at the end of the day, we

still want our girls to be critical

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thinkers, and so we still wanna

prioritize how we teach and learn with

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critical thinking in our classrooms.

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And then AI can be used just as a tool

for us either to help with efficiency.

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Again, like I said, with feedback,

moving things forward, next steps.

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There's definitely, you know, a whole

spectrum of how we can use AI in our

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classrooms from idea generation to

finding out and filtering research

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to popping in your bibliography.

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I think once you've got that skill

of a bibliography, you've ticked that

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one off and AI can super speed that

process right up for you as well.

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Yeah, so there's really big potential for

how it can be used as a tool to help you.

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Anthony Perl: But when you go away from

that in terms of helping you, you've then

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got the challenge of how do you assess.

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Yeah, based on all of that,

because that's becoming more com

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complicated as well, isn't it?

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I mean, it's not just about the simple

HSE score that you get at the end of it.

147

There's a lot of things that go

along the way that are both catering

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for the individual and both also

combating that use of technology.

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Amy Murphy: Mm, yeah.

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No, I completely agree.

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And I mean, that's a much

bigger discussion as well.

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There is an AI task force that

Mariana leads to at MLC School.

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I know that they are, you know, really

talking about how do we actively

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assess, how do we let AI in as a tool,

but when do we need to put a stop to

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it so that we maintain our critical

thinking and we know that this is

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a student's own work completely.

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Because in the HSC we have to

sign off that this is definitely

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a student's work at the end of

their course for their major work.

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And they also complete in all my own work.

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You know, aspect and check in their year

10 to make sure that, you know, there is

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no plagiarism and things like that too.

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So there are things that are being

shaped up, I think, across the board with

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education around the world for how do

we tell, you know, how can we measure,

164

how do we need to make sure we've got

active processes in class where we can

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see the development of student thinking

and student work before they might

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submit a final assessment task as well.

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Anthony Perl: Because there's something

also being said for the fact of.

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Understanding how to use the technology

because it's very easy to go and say

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into an AI and say, go write me this.

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But it's another thing to actually give

it very specific commands to give it

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the context and things that you want.

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So part of it is actually learning

how to utilize the technology.

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Amy Murphy: Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think Marianna has amazing

plans for how she will roll

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that out over the coming years.

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Because you're right, there's an

absolute technique to be able to make

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it work for you in a really clever

way, but ultimately, at the end of the

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day, like the human on the other end

has to have the skills to be able to

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manipulate what it is telling you to

shift things, to make it work for them,

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and to make it really personal as well.

181

Anthony Perl: When we talk about the

changes that are happening in learning.

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Girls to some extent will be easier

to adapt because it's all new to them.

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So they're adapting very easily.

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Whereas you are looking at teachers

who may have been, you know, teaching

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for some period of time, and so they're

having to learn on the go almost about

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how to not only use the technology and not

just technology, but different learning

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styles and different programs and things.

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As well as then being able to teach them.

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So that must have its challenges as well.

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Amy Murphy: Certainly does.

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I think that's so why, that's part of my

role too, is that teachers, one of the

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reasons teachers sign up to be a teacher

is because they love learning as an

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inherent desire for them to know more.

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To be more, to grow more constantly.

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So I think for a lot of our teachers,

the learning that happens all the

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time in terms of wellbeing, in terms

of differentiation, in terms of the

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cognitive science, all of the neuroscience

and cognitive psychology work that

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is coming out and coming back round

in relation to cognitive load theory.

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Retrieval practice is really powerful and

exciting because it gives us additional

200

strategies to use in our classrooms that

we know are totally evidence backed to.

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It's a lot though for teachers to

keep their head around that, and I

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guess it's really important from a

leadership and vision perspective that

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we have to be really careful with how.

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We engage with that knowledge,

how that knowledge rolls out to

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staff as well to make sure that

they are not at cognitive load.

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Because if they are at cognitive

load, just like kids, you know, no

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new information will go into that.

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So we are looking at reimagining, you

know, what can professional learning look

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like so that it is relevant, meaningful,

and practical, but really a part of.

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The day to day of teachers as

well in their classroom spaces.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah, there's

a lot for them to learn.

212

I'm sure the days of just working on

a chalkboard are well and truly gone.

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Right.

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So, and just having to combat

with that, you know, all of the

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technology that you have to use

just to deliver the lessons Yeah.

216

Is in of itself a, a steep

learning curve for some.

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Amy Murphy: Yeah, and I think,

you know, we operate on Canvas is

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our learning management system.

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Canvas is phenomenal.

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Mariana again has done a really

beautiful job with setting up canvas.

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But that obviously takes time to train

teachers to make sure they feel really

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safe and comfortable with using Canvas.

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So usually the best way is

a really phased approach.

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You know that by this point in

time we'd love you to be here.

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And really at the end of the day, the

tech tools like ai, we've got a full

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suite of Microsoft Co-pilot that we have

access to, and then Canvas in the end.

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Will usually help with the efficiency,

um, for them to manage everything that

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they have to in their role as a teacher,

but particularly in relation to their

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lesson planning and their learning design.

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Anthony Perl: What's the

lesson for parents as well?

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Because they're also sitting out

there and having had a very different

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experience in terms of learning to

what their children are undertaking.

233

So how do they.

234

Best work in between that because you

can't necessarily expect that they're

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always on top of the technology.

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Amy Murphy: No, that's absolutely right.

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I mean, I think the rule, you

know, the new rule that is being

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passed in parliament for 16 year

olds and social media will be

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really powerful for all parents.

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I think just make her cry for

help and a big celebration there.

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But it's really hard being a parent, I

think, in this world and this landscape.

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And you know, if you're a parent of

multiple kids, it's absolutely huge to be

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across everything that schools are doing.

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Um, I think, you know, parents need

to be kind to themselves in learning

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and relearning what a new world like.

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We're in a brand new world with

teenagers at the moment, and they,

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their world changes so quickly too.

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So asking questions, you know,

curious questions when you can,

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like, how does this work on Canvas?

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How do you submit an assessment?

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Show me your lesson from today.

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You know?

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And quite often our faculties will

communicate through the newsletter,

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so parents will be able to see and

read what they get up to as well.

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And you know, like parents are sent

notifications through Canvas if

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things are submitted or they aren't.

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So it's important to have

your notifications turned on.

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As a parent, but one of the

best things about Canvas is that

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there's complete transparency.

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You know, parents can actively go

into Canvas and see exactly what

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their child is learning and doing.

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Um, so yeah, I think be kind

and go slow, you know, like

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technology changes all the time.

264

Um, but yeah, there are definitely, you

know, huge things that we need to explore

265

and unpack in relation to AI as well.

266

And when we do that, we will

absolutely always communicate home.

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Anthony Perl: Just in closing things

off a little bit, I wanted to ask

268

about something you touched on

before, which is that balance between

269

academic excellence and wellbeing.

270

Yeah.

271

That's become more and more important,

so how do you find that balance for.

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Individual girls.

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Amy Murphy: Yeah, I think

it comes back to a lot.

274

One is your relationships with the

girls, knowing them, seeing them,

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valuing them in your classroom spaces.

276

Two, how you design your

lessons and your learning.

277

You know, making sure that there

is a space for inquiry, curiosity,

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and collaboration in your lessons.

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There's a really explicit

learning intention and success

280

criteria so that girls know,

okay, by the end of this lesson.

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I need to know the following

things, or I should have learned

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or achieved the following things.

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That provides a really beautiful

layer of safety for them and

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direction for where they're going,

providing and working with a gradual

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release model, you know, so I do.

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We do together and then you do,

so they get the chance to transfer

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and apply their learning in

your spaces as much as possible.

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And then obviously focusing in on just

in time teaching is what we call it.

289

And that's being super

responsive to the class.

290

So if someone says, ah, miss, can you

just explain topic sentences again?

291

You know, like, I think I've got

it, but I haven't fully got it.

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It's up to me as a teacher in that

space to think about, okay, like

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I need to rework a strategy here.

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There was something that didn't

quite land for this particular

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student, and that's okay.

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So I'll dig into my toolbox to kind of see

how I can best help them, because I need

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to come at this from a really different

angle, and then that allows them to feel.

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Really well, you know, within that space,

because I'm being really transparent.

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I'm working within their needs.

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I'm responding to them as best as

I possibly can, challenging them.

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You know, like sometimes learning

isn't actually, a lot of the

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time learning isn't easy.

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So I think reminding girls as well

that, you know, learning is hard and the

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struggle is usually where the learning is.

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That we'll get there.

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You know, we just need to get out of

the pit, the learning pit, we call it.

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A little bit, and we need additional

strategies, and that can come in the

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way of instruction, but it can also

come in the way of that wellbeing where

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we're trying to build resilience at

the same time as building understanding

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of a particular concept as well.

311

So knowing them, hearing them,

seeing them, validating them,

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you know, having complete belief

that your students can achieve.

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Is obviously very important and something

that I have witnessed so beautifully.

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Anthony Perl: Just to wrap things up, as

we do in the podcast, I'm interested in

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what your response is going to be to this.

316

We are asking everybody what dared

to be more means, particularly in the

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context of what we've been talking about,

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Amy Murphy: so it's probably one of

the things that really attracted me

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to applying for the job at MLC School,

and that's because I love, I'm an

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English and drama teacher and I love.

321

The poetic suite of TS Elliot, and in his

poem, the Love song of j Alfred, proof

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Rock, the Persona, which is Proof rock.

323

Questions, do I dare disturb the universe?

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And I love that question.

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I mean, he's in a state of paralysis

because of existential thinking.

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Urbanization, the modernist world.

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So he doesn't want to

disturb the universe.

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But that question always

makes me think, yes.

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Do disturb the universe.

330

That's exactly what we want to happen.

331

So when the motto of the school is

obviously dare to be more, for me it's

332

always about for teachers and for students

having this inherent restlessness to

333

keep growing and to keep learning, and to

keep pursuing, and to keep making change,

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Anthony Perl: that is a

wonderful way to bring.

335

What is a very broad topic to a close,

but thank you so much for those insights

336

and I love that reference to something

that's so personal for you as well

337

and, and bringing that all together.

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So Amy, thank you so much for

being part of Dare to Be More.

339

Amy Murphy: Oh, thanks

for having me on the show.

340

Anthony Perl: Thank you for

joining us on Dare To Be More.

341

If you enjoyed this episode, please

subscribe wherever you get your

342

podcast so you never miss an episode.

343

Your likes and comments also

help more families discover

344

these valuable conversations.

345

For more information about MLC School

and their approach to girls education,

346

visit their website, MLC c.nsw.edu.au.

347

Check out the show notes

for more information.

348

The Dare To Be More Podcast is

produced by podcast Done for You.

349

I'm your host, Anthony Pearl,

and we invite you to join us next

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time as we continue to explore

what it means to dare to be more.