Shownotes
Episode Summary
Dr. Isaac Berzin is the Founder and CTO at Vaxa Life, an organization that is developing sustainable algae-based feed and food ingredients. He was named one the 100 most influential people in politics, business, and science in 2008 by the Time Magazine for his work in sustainability and climate change. Today, Harry and Dr. Isaac discuss the biology of algae and its role in the food chain, his experience working with supplements at Qualitas Health, and the work he is doing at Vaxa Life to create alternative foods rich in vitamins, minerals and proteins.
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Key Takeaways
07:07 – Dr. Isaac Berzin joins the show to discuss his passion for sustainability, what brought him to Iceland and what he learned from his time at Qualitas Health
15:19 – The origins of Vaxa Life
19:55 – Unforeseen roadblocks and challenges faced along Dr. Isaac’s journey
21:48 – The different strains of algae
25:35 – Vaxa Life’s current product offering and their ideal customer
30:01 – Dr. Isaac talks about Örlö, the world's most sustainable Omega-3 supplement
32:55 – The similarities between Iceland and Israel
37:04 – Future opportunities for Vaxa Life
40:13 – A tough question Dr. Isaac has had to ask himself recently
41:14 – Dr. Isaac’s experience as an adjunct professor at Reykjavik University and what keeps him motivated
44:48 – Harry thanks Isaac for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can go to connect with him and learn more about Vaxa Life
Tweetable Quotes
“One of the challenges of agriculture is inconsistent quality, especially with a crop that you harvest every day.” (11:30) (Dr. Isaac)
“Remember how we started this journey. It’s a quest for sustainability and it’s a quest for superior user experience.” (15:43) (Dr. Isaac)
“There are hundreds of strains in the nature of microalgae. Out of these, there are a handful of strains that are approved for human consumption.” (22:38) (Dr. Isaac)
“Vaxa is a technology company that creates alternative foods rich in vitamins, minerals and proteins. We use algae as a vehicle, but we are not an algae company. And we do it in a sustainable way.” (25:45) (Dr. Isaac)
“I have to tell you, the more time I spend with algae, the more I appreciate the complexity. And I understand why they are the baseline of the food chain because they are so versatile and so adaptable. It’s pretty fascinating.” (39:22) (Dr. Isaac)
Resources Mentioned
Isaac’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/isaac-berzin-17386428/
Vaxa Life – https://www.vaxa.life/
Qualitas Health – https://iwilife.com/
Visit Reykjavik, Iceland – https://visitreykjavik.is/
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Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
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Speaker:Visit cultivated.com to learn more. And that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D dot com,
Speaker:or click the link in the show notes. Our spirulina that grows with
Speaker:LED lights, with this specific light combination that was optimized for
Speaker:something totally different, has a lot of vitamin
Speaker:B12. Vaxxa is a technology company that creates
Speaker:alternative foods rich in vitamins, minerals, and proteins.
Speaker:We use algae as a vehicle, but we're not an algae company. And we do
Speaker:it in a sustainable way. In the vertical farming of algae, we do not have
Speaker:it. Everything is bubbling and moving. So there's no places for algae to settle.
Speaker:This marriage, for us, it was a one-stop shop. But the potential,
Speaker:where would you go next, is global.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations
Speaker:with fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.
Speaker:Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical
Speaker:farming with your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 7. Regular
Speaker:listeners to the show, welcome back, welcome back. So happy to have you back
Speaker:week in and week out as I share these fantastic conversations
Speaker:with some amazing guests. If this is your first time listening to the
Speaker:show, then I'm glad you're here. You're in the right place because this is the
Speaker:show where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading
Speaker:vertical farming companies from around the world. I'm your host, Hari Duran. In case
Speaker:you missed last week's episode, we kicked off season 7 with Tom Adamczyk,
Speaker:the founder and CEO of Planted Detroit. We learned a lot about his
Speaker:passion for being an entrepreneur, what it's been
Speaker:like to have Detroit as a headquarters with its rich
Speaker:history in the auto industry, and some of the parallels
Speaker:between the Renaissance in auto production and what's happening
Speaker:in the vertical farm industry. And the fact that it's in Detroit makes it
Speaker:especially interesting for Tom. Make sure you check that out. We had a really lively
Speaker:discussion. I think you'll enjoy that one. This week we speak to Dr. Isaac
Speaker:Berzin. He's the founder and CTO at VaxaLife. It's a company that creates
Speaker:sustainable algae-based feed and food ingredients. Dr. Isaac was
Speaker:named one of the 100 most influential people in politics, business, and science in
Speaker:2008 by Time Magazine for his work in sustainability and climate
Speaker:change. And in this episode, we talk about the biology of algae and its
Speaker:role in the food chain, his experience working with supplements at Qualitas
Speaker:Health, and the work he's doing at VaxxLife to help create
Speaker:alternative foods rich in vitamins, minerals, and proteins. It's the
Speaker:first time we've been to Iceland on this show and the first time we've
Speaker:covered this crop as well. So lots of new things to dig into.
Speaker:As a reminder, we're always looking for a rating and a review. Head on over
Speaker:to ratethispodcast.com/vfb. I'd love to read yours out next.
Speaker:All right. All right, let's jump into this conversation with Dr. Isaac. But
Speaker:before we do, here's a couple of words from the amazing folks that continue
Speaker:to support this show and for which I am eternally grateful. This episode is brought
Speaker:to you by Indoor AgCon 2023. I'm so happy
Speaker:to have been working with the team last year. Indoor AgCon
Speaker:2022 was my very first indoor farming conference,
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Speaker:VFP, as in Vertical Farming Podcast, and sign up at
Speaker:indoor.ag. See you there. If you're a regular listener to the show, you'll know
Speaker:that this is the space where I get to talk about some of the fantastic
Speaker:sponsors and supporters of this show. If you are interested in being one of those
Speaker:sponsors, by all means reach out to me directly,
Speaker:[email protected]. We've got inventory
Speaker:available for season 7, and the reach of the show just continues to
Speaker:increase year over year, and we'd love to partner with you and get the word
Speaker:out about your company or service. So Isaac Berzin, founder and
Speaker:CTO at Vaxxa Impact Nutrition, thank you for joining me on the Vertical
Speaker:Farming Podcast. Pleasure to be here. Where is home
Speaker:for you? Very good question. So I spend my time
Speaker:almost equally between Iceland and Israel, so probably,
Speaker:uh, the islands are where— no, I live in Jerusalem,
Speaker:but I also have a home in Reykjavik,
Speaker:Iceland, so 50/50. And we'll get
Speaker:into the specifics of how you ended up in Iceland because I think it's a
Speaker:really interesting story. But I like the idea of telling origin
Speaker:stories. And, you know, there's— I did see your
Speaker:TEDx talk. I don't remember when the year was, but it
Speaker:was interesting because I think it's educational for a lot of people who may not
Speaker:understand the benefits of everything we're going to talk about in terms of,
Speaker:you know, a good source for omega-3s and algae. And I think a
Speaker:lot of things that people just take for granted. But I'm curious, you know,
Speaker:where this passion for you started. I know you've done some
Speaker:work with NASA on the space station, and you've also, you know,
Speaker:done some work at MIT as well. Right. So I was at the time a
Speaker:researcher at MIT's Center for Space Research
Speaker:working on a project that was supposed to cultivate different
Speaker:cell lines for the International Space Station. So scientists will be able to
Speaker:see how microgravity affects, you know, different organisms.
Speaker:It so happened that I fell in love with algaes at that point.
Speaker:As you mentioned, I think there's a big gap of understanding why they're so
Speaker:vital to life. I tell people about algae, they think, oh, it's what, the pond
Speaker:scum? It's like whatever. It's like removed from life, which actually
Speaker:the opposite is true. So, and then I was thinking, could they be, could they
Speaker:do anything useful on this planet? And if you think about it,
Speaker:Harry, we have like a schizophrenic approach to carbon. On one hand, we
Speaker:shout too much carbon in the atmosphere. Oh my God. You know, climate change. Yeah.
Speaker:On the other hand, there's not enough carbon in terms of food or, you know,
Speaker:things like that. So let's say, you know, what's going on here? Is it too
Speaker:much or not enough? Actually, it's too much gas carbon, CO2, not
Speaker:enough organic carbon food. And what recycles
Speaker:carbon from being a gas to being an organic yummy
Speaker:thing, it's plants. Actually, you know, I used to tell
Speaker:people that everything we eat is light. Yeah. Everything we eat
Speaker:is light, either light firsthand from the plant that did the photosynthesis,
Speaker:light secondhand from the animal that ate the plant that
Speaker:used the light for photosynthesis. But that's how nature works. Nature
Speaker:works by recycling carbon. We're just a part of the cycle, that's all. And
Speaker:we're trying to do it in an efficient way. That's a perspective that took me
Speaker:the time. So prior to Vaxxa, you were the,
Speaker:uh, you founded, uh, Qualitas. So can you talk a little bit about your
Speaker:entrepreneurial journey as well? Because I think that's fascinating. And I think, I
Speaker:imagine there's going to be some connections, you know, as you move to Vaxxa. But
Speaker:can you talk a little bit about Qualitas? Yes. So Qualitas was founded
Speaker:with the idea of bringing the first algae-based, photosynthetic
Speaker:algae-based omega-3 to the world. You know, if you ask relatively,
Speaker:you know, knowledgeable people, where does omega-3 come from? They're gonna tell you the
Speaker:fish, it's coming from the fish. And the truth is, is
Speaker:that fish do not produce omega-3s. They do not. They just
Speaker:accumulate, but they get it from the algae they eat up the food
Speaker:chain. So algae are the originator of DHA and EPA, which are the
Speaker:health-related omega-3s, and the fish is just the middleman.
Speaker:Okay? So the idea was to cut the middleman and to bring the
Speaker:omega-3 from the source. That was how Qualitas was
Speaker:founded. And the idea was to find something that would be
Speaker:cost-effective so that we migrated into open ponds. You
Speaker:know, you think what can be more cost-effective than a piece of desert with just
Speaker:a pedal and then this is great. Reality is more complicated.
Speaker:You know, in the end of the day, they're like, I would say, 3 different
Speaker:aspects that you think about. Okay, one is sustainability, which is a big
Speaker:word, but I'm an engineer, so I need to understand the numbers.
Speaker:And for example, if you have an open pond, you have a very significant evaporation.
Speaker:And if you do the math, even if you grow marine algae, what evaporates is
Speaker:freshwater. So in order to keep, to maintain a certain salinity level, what do you
Speaker:have to put in? Freshwater. So in the end of the day,
Speaker:You know, it looks like a sustainable thing, but what you have to put in
Speaker:is a finite resource. And then the other thing I think is, you
Speaker:know, one of the challenges of agriculture is inconsistent quality,
Speaker:especially with the crop that you harvest every day. Every day, different
Speaker:temperature, different light conditions. So every day you have a different input and that's very
Speaker:hard for the industry to accept. So this was kind of
Speaker:the learning curve that brought me to Iceland. To a different
Speaker:platform of both, I would say, sustainability
Speaker:and user experience at the end of the day, and hence by large companies as
Speaker:well. What was your biggest takeaway during the
Speaker:time you were at Polytox, probably a little over 6 years?
Speaker:What did you learn and what did you not know going in in
Speaker:terms of what would be involved in running a supplement company?
Speaker:Yeah, so first of all, I was happy to learn that
Speaker:Yes, it does take some education and it's not
Speaker:for vegetarian. It's a simple question. Do you want your omega-3
Speaker:firsthand or you want it seventh hand from the fish that ate the algae
Speaker:with all the additional mercury, PCBs, whatever's in the oil? Okay. It's a very
Speaker:easy decision. So I think what I learned is surprisingly
Speaker:good way I would easy it is once people get it, it's like, oh my
Speaker:God, is it like, so why would I Squeeze a dead fish.
Speaker:Okay, so so that was an easy part. What was hard
Speaker:was the fact that you do not sell algae; you sell the oil, the
Speaker:omega three rich oil. So you have to get the oil out of the algae,
Speaker:and that's a process that you have to be very mindful of because you
Speaker:want to maintain the natural quality of the oil. In this
Speaker:specific alga, the oil was polar oil. What's the
Speaker:difference? If you take oil and water, you mix them. Oil floats on the top,
Speaker:right? But if you take a polar oil and mix it with water, it stays
Speaker:an emulsion. Imagine your stomach now, if you eat oil-based thing and it
Speaker:floats on the top, you have fishy burps that you, then you have no friends,
Speaker:right? So polar oil is, is a completely different user
Speaker:experience, highly bioavailable. You need a smaller dosage. So
Speaker:the user experience is superior, but you have to maintain it when you extract the
Speaker:oil out so you don't disrupt this chemical structure.
Speaker:And we made a conscious choice of using green chemistry
Speaker:only. So we don't use any toxic solvents, even
Speaker:if they're allowed by the law, like we don't use it, period. So the journey
Speaker:was harder than I imagined, you know, to get something of the quality,
Speaker:that was not an easy job. It's okay, you
Speaker:know, with persistence and feeling that, you know, you're doing the
Speaker:right thing, you can go a long way. Why was this important to you? You
Speaker:know, we'll get into how you started Vaxxolife, but I'm curious about your sort
Speaker:of like your mindset or, you know, What is something that I
Speaker:gathered from like the energy of you during the TED Talk is like this idea
Speaker:of doing better for the planet. And I'm wondering like where that comes from
Speaker:for you. I think it's, it's a natural thing, right? All of us
Speaker:are here for a period of time and we bring something
Speaker:good or bring a benefit. Probably we should. So I think it's the choice of
Speaker:value is like pretty easy. If you can do something positive, why wouldn't
Speaker:you? I would say the other way around. And I was blessed to live this
Speaker:interface between engineering and biology for many, many years. I understand
Speaker:both languages. So I wanted
Speaker:to translate the knowledge I gained over many years to
Speaker:something that we needed in the world to the positive direction.
Speaker:So I think we're fortunate to live in this. Think about this, okay? It took
Speaker:us thousands of years to go from hunter-gatherers to farmers, right?
Speaker:Thousands of years. But in terms of omega-3, what are we?
Speaker:Hunters-gatherers, right? So this is an evolutionary step. It
Speaker:just accelerated evolution, but it's like something we as humans,
Speaker:that's what we do, okay? We use technology and we apply it to get
Speaker:better quality of life, better quality of products, better quality of, you know,
Speaker:imagine sustainability matrix. So I think it's into you.
Speaker:Yeah, very admirable. And so I'm curious about, you know,
Speaker:think about the early days towards the end of
Speaker:your supplement company with Qualitas. What was going through your mind when you were
Speaker:thinking about starting up Vaxxalife and what was different or
Speaker:what needed to change or where did you see the need different than what you
Speaker:were able to provide in Qualitas? Right. So Qualitas is still up and running
Speaker:and they have excellent products in the market. But for me, you know, remember how
Speaker:we started this journey. It's a quest of sustainability and
Speaker:it's a quest for superior user experience. I know
Speaker:what we bring to the table is the worst camel in the world.
Speaker:So much water, fresh water. I know the value of that. It's a finite
Speaker:resource. Okay. And if in the end of the day, you have
Speaker:no control over who lives in the open pond, right? The, whatever the rain brings,
Speaker:whatever the, you know, the boar jumps in the water, right? It's like, it's
Speaker:agriculture. Did you do a good job? And my answer was
Speaker:good enough. I think we brought, you know, we brought the first
Speaker:photosynthetic algae-based omega-3 to the market, to the world,
Speaker:which is great. wonderful. But is it good enough? Probably not.
Speaker:So that was kind of in the back of my mind. You know, in the
Speaker:end of the day, you have to have an honest quest. And this was part
Speaker:of the journey, took me to Iceland. So this
Speaker:is really interesting because obviously this is, it's a really
Speaker:important part of the Vaxxer.life story. So
Speaker:did you pull team members from Qualitas? Because I'm an entrepreneur
Speaker:myself, I always think about these things. And where do you look for a team?
Speaker:And what are the skill sets that you need when you're starting something like
Speaker:Right. Actually, what happened was Iceland kind of found me.
Speaker:The Icelandic government was looking for additional growth engines for the country
Speaker:because, you know, they're based on tourism or cheap energy, but that's
Speaker:not kind of what they saw the future in. And someone
Speaker:decided that algae is a great fit for Iceland. And they were calling me
Speaker:maybe for 2 or 3 years every month and asking me, would I just come
Speaker:and see Iceland because it's a great place for algae. And, uh, I
Speaker:was thinking to myself, 300 people, 300,000 people sitting on an
Speaker:island with no sunlight half a year, and they wanna grow algae. What a
Speaker:great idea. Good luck, guys. Okay. Only when I see how
Speaker:advanced this nature is, how entrepreneurial they are, and that
Speaker:actually having clean energy is the way to go because then you
Speaker:aren't trying to replace sunlight and there are many advantages
Speaker:coming from that. Some of them were trivial. Some of them were non-trivial,
Speaker:but this combination cultivating microalgae with a geothermal plant to
Speaker:integrating into a geothermal plant was never done before. So it
Speaker:sounded at the time like crazy. So I reached out to the same team
Speaker:that walked with me from my early MIT days, a biologist and an engineer
Speaker:that were free. They were my partners in all the journeys I made.
Speaker:And the learning curve I'm describing, you know, I started with no white hair and
Speaker:hopefully some wisdom accumulated here. Yeah. But the learning curve was
Speaker:joined for the 3 of us. And I was telling them what I saw and
Speaker:I was telling them about the technology gap. You need to do probably
Speaker:vertical farming of algae and never done before,
Speaker:not in a geothermal plant setup. And I
Speaker:understand the big picture, but someone needs to develop a new technology.
Speaker:And they said yes. And luckily enough, we joined Ohad, which is
Speaker:CEO of the company, and he was the first investor. Basically, Ohad and his
Speaker:father just looked into my eyes and wrote a check to
Speaker:build a prototype, to put, you know, some proof of concept, to
Speaker:file for patents. And it was just, I think it's the
Speaker:feeling of doing the right thing that was guiding them. They're very sharp business
Speaker:people, but they were taken by trust. I will never forget
Speaker:this, you know, how do you gather a team? How do you fund an idea?
Speaker:How do you, I remember even the Icelanders that invested, you know, in the, they,
Speaker:They asked me, Isaac, was it ever done before? And I
Speaker:said, can you do it? Yeah. Okay, there we
Speaker:go. So these are precious moments. Know how
Speaker:valuable and precious they are. It's pure trust. Trust of the, you know,
Speaker:some people pay with their, you know, being away from their families. Some
Speaker:people pay with their money. Some, but it's a group that believe in
Speaker:you. It's a huge responsibility. I think that if you
Speaker:didn't have a chance to feel this responsibility. It's like something
Speaker:that keeps you up at night, just the trust level. And
Speaker:that's how it all started. So obviously, I
Speaker:get the sense that you definitely had the confidence in being able to produce
Speaker:this in a vertical farming environment with the team you had put
Speaker:together. Naturally, when you start the project, there's probably
Speaker:things that you had not thought of or things that were maybe challenging in the
Speaker:beginning. So I'm just curious, you know, what were some unforeseen
Speaker:road bumps along the way, things you couldn't have foreseen but that you were able
Speaker:to work through? Yeah. So I'll give you one example, which was kind of
Speaker:surprising retrospectively because I should have known better. One of
Speaker:the things that attracted us to Iceland is the clean and cheap
Speaker:electricity, geothermal electricity. That's kind of obvious when you
Speaker:have so much, you need a clean and cost-effective source. And then you
Speaker:build a system with all these lights shining and it's like a damn oven
Speaker:because a big fraction of the light is converted to heat. You
Speaker:know, your lights are burning hot, your algaes are a soup, and how are you
Speaker:going to cool this thing? Okay. Thank God your thermal power
Speaker:plant is selling 2 things. One is electricity, but the other thing
Speaker:is hot water. So when you take a shower in Reykjavik, the hot
Speaker:water is coming from the same power plant that sells electricity. And hot
Speaker:water is coming into the power plant as 6 centigrade cold
Speaker:water. Okay. That they then heat to 87 and send it to the showers and
Speaker:the swimming pools and even a private beach in Reykjavik. You can swim in
Speaker:the winter. Yeah. Because of this hot water. Yeah. That's fine. That's great. Right.
Speaker:So then you understand that the integration with the power plant is beyond the
Speaker:electricity. You need to connect to the cold water and need
Speaker:to cool different streams. The LEDs need to be cooled. to keep them happy. And
Speaker:different algae strains need to be kept at different temperature to keep
Speaker:them happy. And also recycle the gas phase, and you need to compress
Speaker:the gas and cool the gas so the gas is happy. So you have to
Speaker:keep a lot of thermal balances, but you can do it because you have endless
Speaker:supply of cold water on one hand and hot water on the other hand, and
Speaker:you can play with it accordingly. So that was a surprise. Thank God it was
Speaker:there because otherwise, you know, the system would crash after a second.
Speaker:Just from thermal management. Yeah. And so you mentioned
Speaker:the different strains of algae. I think most people who are learning
Speaker:about this may just think about algae as like one kind of algae, but
Speaker:for a bit of education for the listener, can you just describe, you
Speaker:know, the different kinds? So first of all, algae are very sweet. It's a unicellular
Speaker:plant. Okay, I can say plant because I'm not a biologist, but I'm
Speaker:an engineer. I can say it doesn't have any roots or stems or leaves, but
Speaker:that's why it's so efficient in production of Because for
Speaker:example, think about this. If you grow soybeans, what percentage of
Speaker:the plant material, the roots, the stems, the
Speaker:leaves, are the beans? And the answer is a single-digit percentage.
Speaker:That impressive. Most of what we grow is garbage. On the other hand, with algae,
Speaker:it's a basket of nutrition. So a little basket that grows cell division.
Speaker:So it's a beautiful form to produce food and nutrition. Okay.
Speaker:There are hundreds of strains in the nature of microalgae. Okay.
Speaker:Out of the thousands, there's like a handful, okay, handful of strains
Speaker:that are approved for human consumption. You've probably heard about
Speaker:spirulina, which is a blue-green algae, and chlorella, which
Speaker:is kind of, and there are other additional few that are approved
Speaker:for, but that's the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Now,
Speaker:I'm not saying it's a bad way to think about it. Some algaes are toxic.
Speaker:So you need the regulation to tell you, it's like mushrooms, right? You cannot whatever
Speaker:you see. But we didn't, I think that there was a technology gap that
Speaker:didn't allow us to harness this, you know, source of nutrition, which is
Speaker:called microalgae. So it's, it's only the beginning the way I see it. But I'll
Speaker:tell you something interesting we learned, which was totally surprising, and it has
Speaker:to do with a different algae, spirulina. Spirulina is well known.
Speaker:It's grown all over the world. It's one of the most famous algae. It's called
Speaker:superfood because it has a lot of protein and vitamins and minerals, et cetera.
Speaker:But one thing it does not have is bioavailable
Speaker:B12. B12 is usually coming from meat, you associate,
Speaker:but you know, the B12 in meat is not the cow actually. It's
Speaker:produced by the microorganisms that are either in the cow's stomach
Speaker:or on the grass. B12 is a microorganism product. But
Speaker:again, like the fish, like the omega-3, we get it from the animal. And
Speaker:surprisingly, I wish I could tell you why, I cannot. It was by
Speaker:mistake. Our spirulina that grows with LED lights with
Speaker:this specific light combination that was optimized for something totally
Speaker:different has a lot of vitamin B12 in the
Speaker:most bioavailable form, which is called methylcobalamin. Synthetic
Speaker:are not natural form. It's called cyanocobalamin. But this one is
Speaker:the, the exact same molecule we have in the cow, the most bioavailable one.
Speaker:And we have tons of it. How come? Honestly, only God knows. I don't know.
Speaker:Okay. So I know the condition that leads to that. You know, I had no
Speaker:idea. But then it draws a very interesting line between
Speaker:this specific spirulina and beef. The
Speaker:line is very interesting because nutritional aspect and it has environmental aspect.
Speaker:Probably, you know, if you think about the environmental footprint of carbon,
Speaker:water, whatever, it's kind of the mo— the worst thing. On the other hand,
Speaker:if you're consuming meat, you're gonna have a lack of B12 and iron probably.
Speaker:And also it's a beautiful vehicle for essential amino acids. These are the
Speaker:building blocks of protein that our body has to
Speaker:get from an external source. We cannot synthesize them. Okay. So all
Speaker:these are coming with your beef, the horrible unenvironmental beef.
Speaker:That's kind of it. So think about all the alternative meat products out there in
Speaker:the world. Okay. It looks like beef, it smells like beef, but it doesn't carry
Speaker:the nutritional value of beef. Here comes the missing link, something
Speaker:that you can integrate the alternative meat product that elevates
Speaker:them nutritionally to something that is equivalent to
Speaker:beef. All that happened by mistake, or I would say unintentionally.
Speaker:Okay, so I wish I could tell you I'm the smartest, but no. And so
Speaker:for the folks that are not familiar with Vaxa, what is the
Speaker:current product offering? Who are you producing
Speaker:for? And what are some of the folks that you're working with now in terms
Speaker:of clients? Vaxa is a technology company that
Speaker:creates alternative foods rich in vitamins, minerals,
Speaker:and proteins. We use algae as a vehicle, but we're not an algae company,
Speaker:and we do it in a sustainable way. So by integrating
Speaker:algae as vertical farming algae with a geothermal power
Speaker:plant, for example, there was a recent study that looked at lifecycle analysis,
Speaker:is measuring your carbon footprint, and it was done by Cambridge
Speaker:University, Danish Food Research Institute, and the Icelandic
Speaker:Food Research Institute. It's a joint project. And they concluded the
Speaker:Vaxx operation is carbon negative. If you wanna be
Speaker:conservative, you can say carbon neutral. Now, I don't know of any
Speaker:agricultural activity in the world that's carbon neutral. It was like
Speaker:shocking news to me. Really? Yeah, this is it. Okay.
Speaker:So it is different. What we're bringing to market is a basket of products.
Speaker:For example, we have a line of omega-3 products. Good stuff. That is
Speaker:alternative. The experience is amazing. You have no fishy burps.
Speaker:Absorption is very high. And the, even the capsule is
Speaker:vegetarian. Again, it's not for vegetarian necessarily. It's whoever wants
Speaker:the, the benefits of a small, efficient dosage, no fishy
Speaker:burps, and a firsthand omega-3. So we sell it in the United
Speaker:States. If you go to orlonutrition.com, you can actually choose your product there
Speaker:and, and get into your home. It's coming in a, in a recycled box. Even
Speaker:the print is algae ink on the package. And so the
Speaker:feel, and also you get like a nice glass jar and then you, you have
Speaker:a prescription model, then you You get a bag with capsules and you can use
Speaker:the same jar over and over. So this is one line of product. It's
Speaker:based on a specific algae strain. And then we have a different line of products
Speaker:that is based on spirulina. But unlike regular spirulina,
Speaker:the user experience is superior. You don't have the
Speaker:specific— have you ever tried the spirulina? Yeah, I actually had a, a
Speaker:little bit this morning. I've got a supplement as well I use. Okay. A little
Speaker:bit because sometimes I feel sometimes that spirulina should be called
Speaker:spirulina because it's kind of stinky, right? A little bit. Yeah. Between us girls, you
Speaker:can say. So it's a totally different user experience because it doesn't have the specific
Speaker:smell and taste of spirulina. And this is because of the cultivation method is
Speaker:completely different. Most of the spirulina in the world is cultivated in open ponds
Speaker:in agricultural mode. What happens there is
Speaker:some of the algae kind of settle to the bottom of the pond and you
Speaker:don't see it because the pond is completely green and beautiful. But when you empty
Speaker:You see what's happening on the bottom. It gently— it's not something you want to
Speaker:eat. And we'll stop there. So, so static algae is a problem.
Speaker:It's a protein food and bacteria are celebrating on it. So we, you know, in
Speaker:the vertical farming of algae, we do not have it. Everything is bubbling and moving,
Speaker:so there's no places for algae to settle. And therefore, when you smell it,
Speaker:it smells like nothing. When you taste it, it's like nothing. And
Speaker:it's so rich in antioxidants that literally instance, I
Speaker:did this experiment not long ago. I was giving a
Speaker:talk at a conference and I was telling about this, you know, color is blue,
Speaker:full of vitamin B12, and you need to have yogurt with, you know,
Speaker:Icelandic spirulina. And everybody comes to eat the yogurt and it's something blue. It's a,
Speaker:there are no blue foods really. It's kind of your mind is saying,
Speaker:no, no, no, no, no. Right. And then you taste the yogurt, tastes like
Speaker:the yogurt. It's a vanilla yogurt. It's like vanilla yogurt. So the
Speaker:dissonance between the eyes and color and the taste is shocking.
Speaker:And then at the same time, I've seen people coming like 5 times, you know,
Speaker:it was like, you know, I said, I, I've seen it before. Yeah, but it's
Speaker:so great. I have to try it again. So I think there's something frightening but
Speaker:also mesmerizing in the color and no taste experience. But
Speaker:for me, I look at the nutritional value. I'm an engineer. I told you I
Speaker:need numbers. Yeah. So I understand how valuable this is
Speaker:nutritionally, and that's why I'm happy. What we did is we
Speaker:signed a large offtake agreement with a food ingredient company. I cannot
Speaker:say the name, but it's the largest players in the world and it's a
Speaker:15-year contract, which means That proves the point that going from
Speaker:agri to technology, okay, allows large
Speaker:players to make you a partner offering. Because
Speaker:agriculture seems like something you need to pray for the rain, never
Speaker:know what's going to happen. So no one will be committed for 15 years.
Speaker:But technology, that's something different. So I think it proves the point, you know, that
Speaker:it's a different platform to create nutrition. And so that's on the consumer
Speaker:level, obviously. And, you know, I think everything that you're doing with Orlo is really
Speaker:interesting because it does seem to be like the future of supplements, especially especially like
Speaker:recyclable glass containers. And I think people are really conscious of the impact on the
Speaker:environment. And I think when it comes down to measuring the
Speaker:nutritional value, people are probably comparing it to traditional omega-3s.
Speaker:And have you gotten feedback from folks that have tried Orlo and what the difference
Speaker:is? Yeah. You know what was my hardest customers? My daughters.
Speaker:I have 3 daughters, one of them medical doctor. She doesn't believe
Speaker:a word I say. She has to check herself. This medical doctor, Daniela.
Speaker:Okay. So she said, really? That's good. Okay. So I'm gonna give it a try.
Speaker:So what she, she went, did the blood test. Okay. So she cholesterol, triglycerides,
Speaker:all the blood works, right? Yeah. And then she started using it and after 3
Speaker:months, so first of all, she honest feedback about the user experience, said,
Speaker:dad, there's no fishy burps at all. Okay. One of the reasons she stopped using
Speaker:fish oil is because just suffered from like unpleasant
Speaker:aftertaste. But this was gone and it's a very easy to swallow pill,
Speaker:so she Loved it. And then she went again to the doctor
Speaker:and did another blood test, and then she could compare the
Speaker:cholesterol level. Um, this lady is serious. Okay. And she could see
Speaker:significant reduction in all the, all the levels of triglycerides and, and cholesterol. And
Speaker:I think, uh, this was an— for her was my biggest challenge. But
Speaker:again, numbers talk. You don't need to— and user experience is something very
Speaker:easy. You feel it. Yeah. Right? So if it's something that's easy to swallow,
Speaker:Oh, it doesn't smell like anything. Actually pop up the pill and put it in
Speaker:water and see how it creates a little emulsion. I mean, everything I say is
Speaker:very, is something you can actually feel, touch, relate to. Sure. So what we
Speaker:decided to do now is we're actually starting clinical trial with the
Speaker:hospital in Israel, and we're gonna measure something called omega-3
Speaker:index. Omega-3 index is different from your blood because it's measuring the
Speaker:omega-3 in the envelope of your blood cells. So it's actually
Speaker:reflecting absorbance only how much blood, how much, you
Speaker:know, is in your blood. Okay. So everybody, and it's a scale between, I think,
Speaker:2 to 12. So you can actually, and it's, you can buy online, you put
Speaker:one drop of blood in the kit, put in envelope, and you have your omega-3
Speaker:index. So it's very easy to your own progress on the
Speaker:scale, and it's very easy to know if you're doing better or not. And then
Speaker:it's very easy to compare between fish oil-based and algae-based
Speaker:omega-3, which are polar lipids. So now It's a very easy thing
Speaker:beyond your, again, I'm an engineer, I like numbers. So it'd be very easy to
Speaker:show, look, this was your progress, how was your user
Speaker:experience? And the funny thing is you don't have to pay more. Okay? So we're
Speaker:not asking people to pay more for the benefits of having algae
Speaker:from the, the omega-3 from the source. So, you know, I've never met
Speaker:this person who would tell me, no, I prefer the omega-3 from
Speaker:the fish because I, mercury included. I love it. Okay. I've never
Speaker:met this person. So I think it's not the hard sell. So for folks that
Speaker:have never had the experience of, A, being in
Speaker:Iceland before, how much of a cultural shift was that for
Speaker:you? I will tell you something funny. Iceland is a lot like
Speaker:Israel and it took me by surprise. I would, I never imagined
Speaker:this. Okay. It's a small society. They all know each other.
Speaker:You either played football with this thing or with a guy, or you had the,
Speaker:or it's your uncle, or you, you know, you went to high school together. It's
Speaker:a very small society, very similar to Israel. Everybody knows everybody. And
Speaker:also they speak their mind. Okay, they're not rude or impolite, but they're
Speaker:very straight. Like there's no, oh great, interesting, let's see you
Speaker:next time. None of that. Okay, they're going, no, bad idea. Don't talk to me
Speaker:about this anymore. Okay. And for me, an Israeli, I feel at home
Speaker:because I know what's going on. And, you know, and no
Speaker:is a good answer. The second best answer is no. So I'm okay. It's fine.
Speaker:We have a team of exceptional people. As you understand, it's a
Speaker:remote location for me. I'm not their boss. I'm their partner.
Speaker:They're not my employees. They're my friends. We share the vision. They care more than
Speaker:me. They think about in the shower. And what I see now, it's been,
Speaker:you know, we started in 2017. So we've been a while
Speaker:together. We, the team that I described, the biologists, the engineers, and
Speaker:myself, we brought a concept, a proof of concept. They took it to the next
Speaker:level. Every time we come. It's better, smarter, more efficient.
Speaker:So it's there, you know, heart and talent is there. And when you look at
Speaker:this team, it's actually very funny to watch. We have people from all
Speaker:religions, all sexes, all tendencies, all ages, that united
Speaker:colors of Benetton. And in the weekends, they go together. And I was asking them,
Speaker:guys, you're stuck together the whole day. Now in the weekend, you, you go together,
Speaker:you have a beer together? So yeah, we love each other. That's it. So it's
Speaker:a, it's really, you feel it. It's just a unique Talented, crazy
Speaker:group of people that love to be with each other. Talk to me a little
Speaker:bit about the experience of being in that facility, because obviously, you know, I've talked
Speaker:to a lot of, you know, CEOs of companies growing a wide range
Speaker:of products now and crops indoors. And then I think people are really open
Speaker:to the possibility of what's possible growing in a controlled environment.
Speaker:And so can you take the listener through a bit of a
Speaker:theater of the mind virtual tour of what's the inside of this facility look
Speaker:like? What's happening? Is it— I'm thinking something like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
Speaker:But except with algae. It's not farther than that.
Speaker:And, uh, just because it's so amazing and mesmerizing, we're actually
Speaker:building a visiting center in which you'll be able to go in, have this crazy
Speaker:psychedelic experience of like this, uh, algae growing. And then you're gonna go
Speaker:out to a restaurant and you're gonna have your pizza with algae in the
Speaker:dough and a blue on top. And you have the gin and tonic with,
Speaker:uh, you know, blue gin and tonic and, and all of that. So you're gonna
Speaker:have a full experience. So we're working on it. Hopefully it'll be up and running
Speaker:next year. But yeah, so if you, from the outside, it looks like a regular
Speaker:building. There are no windows, it's kind of closed. Then when you go in, you
Speaker:see something that's about more than 7 meters high. It's a
Speaker:collection of panels. Each panel is like a door. It's 5 centimeters
Speaker:thick, but it's like 2.5 meters high and 2.5 meters wide. So imagine
Speaker:a group of those panels, like cartridges. Okay. So many, many, and they're
Speaker:hugged on both sides with LED lights. Wow. So you look, it's like a big
Speaker:box with many cartridges and LED lights between them. And
Speaker:CO2 enriched air is bubbling in the bottom of these boxes. So you have, you
Speaker:have bubbles. So the sound of bubbles, the, you know, you see bubbles kind of
Speaker:running around. The color is red and blue, so it's like
Speaker:purple. So it's crisp purple color to the bubbles. It's,
Speaker:the magnitude is huge. You have to go, basically we take people inside this. Okay.
Speaker:You're gonna go in, we have a corridor that's gonna go in this thing.
Speaker:And it looks like out of this world. I cannot even explain it. It's something
Speaker:you have to experience. And even for me, I've been there 100 times,
Speaker:200 times. Every time I go there, it takes me by
Speaker:surprise. It's so beautiful. You know, it's just something
Speaker:that really I can't explain. I think you have to experience it.
Speaker:It's, uh, and it gives you a feeling of something very futuristic,
Speaker:something that out of this world, you know, something you see in movies maybe, but
Speaker:it's real. It's working. It's producing awesome. Nutritions. Pretty cool.
Speaker:How— what are the opportunities for you if you think about, you know,
Speaker:looking forward? I'm sure you have a product roadmap. I'm sure you have a vision
Speaker:for where you want this to go. And are there other opportunities
Speaker:that you have through Vaxxa that you're— that are
Speaker:currently in the works that, you know, may not have been on your radar when
Speaker:you first started, but now that you have the facility up and running,
Speaker:you know, what do you see as the future potential? Right. So I would
Speaker:divide into 2 things. I would say one thing is we have people coming to
Speaker:us with all kinds of algae strains that were actually approved for human nutrition and
Speaker:want to use this facility to cultivate them. As I said, it's a technology company.
Speaker:We just dial in the temperature, the pH, whatever, and then that's what the system
Speaker:can do. So we can keep many algae strains happy. So this is one direction
Speaker:we can grow. Basically, once regulatory approval for different algae strains is there, we
Speaker:can bring this nutrition to the food market. Okay, so that's one direction.
Speaker:Yeah. A second direction is people that were asking about, can you only do it
Speaker:in Iceland or can you only do it in this specific plant? And the answer
Speaker:is no. If you think about what I told you today is actually you need
Speaker:electricity, right? Which you can get from the grid, right? You don't have
Speaker:to be physically at a power plant. You can get it from the grid as
Speaker:long as it's produced by, you know, clean energy producer, wind,
Speaker:wave energy, solar energy, hydroelectric, whatever the, Then
Speaker:you just buy those clean electrodes from the grid and be remote. And then
Speaker:you need cold water. As I said, it's a big oven. You need to cool.
Speaker:The water could be ocean water. The water could be big river water. The
Speaker:water could be, you know, underground water. There are many water sources you could use.
Speaker:So this marriage, I mean, for us it was a one-stop shop, but the
Speaker:potential, where would you go next, is global. So these are the 2 things I
Speaker:see. It's a technology rollout and it's algae strains rollout. And you
Speaker:need to find the uniqueness about the algae, right? You need to find
Speaker:something that algae do better than other, you know, I don't think you can, you
Speaker:know, compete with like staple crops, with corn, with soy.
Speaker:These are huge magnitudes, very cheap products. I think you have to find what's unique.
Speaker:Yeah. Has to do with vitamins, minerals, antioxidants,
Speaker:essential amino acids, essential fatty acids. These are the direction I think that, you know,
Speaker:this technology can create the nutritional value of
Speaker:I imagine over the course of the years you've become
Speaker:somewhat of an algae expert and connoisseur now.
Speaker:I have to tell you that the more time I spend with algae, the more
Speaker:I appreciate the complexity. Algae are deceivingly simple. I know I
Speaker:gave you the example, spirulina is one of the well-known algae. Everybody grows spirulina.
Speaker:Everybody tried to, and all of a sudden this thing that never produces
Speaker:bioactive B12 produces tons of it. It's nonlinear,
Speaker:right? It's like different set of conditions take you to a completely
Speaker:different place. So it's not— it's a very complex system.
Speaker:But over the time, I can tell you, I learned to appreciate them more and
Speaker:more, and I understand why they are the baseline of the food chain, because
Speaker:they're so versatile, so adaptive, they're so reactive. It's like a dialogue. They don't
Speaker:speak, but they react to any change you make. It's pretty fascinating,
Speaker:and it happens fast. You know, if I was growing sequoia trees, I would have
Speaker:I don't have a long patience. These things happen in terms of hours. Okay.
Speaker:The doubling rate is hours, so it's pretty fast. What's a tough
Speaker:question you've had to ask yourself recently? I would like to
Speaker:operate with something in Japanese called motai nai, which is
Speaker:waste not. When I look at the algae, I want to make a nutritional home
Speaker:for all the components. Okay. So if you grow an algae and you take the
Speaker:oil and you sell the omega-3, what about the rest? Omega-3s.
Speaker:majority of the biomass. You have proteins, you have minerals, you have a lot. So
Speaker:how do you find a usage for that? So I think, look, it's not that
Speaker:different from a soybean farmer needs to sell the meal and the oil, right? You
Speaker:have 2 products. If you don't sell one of them, you're out of business. So
Speaker:this is a, you know, a similar situation. In our case, you have maybe 3
Speaker:streams or 4 streams that you need to find homes. So, and many
Speaker:times it's ingredient into something a large food company
Speaker:would use. So you need to be able to play in many
Speaker:fields at the same time. That's complexity. I'm learning something from the algae.
Speaker:That's how they live. So I'm trying to do my job and accommodate them. But
Speaker:I think that's the trick. The trick would be to find a home to every
Speaker:product that you make. Only value. Makes sense. I
Speaker:noticed also that you were an adjunct professor at Reykjavik University. What's
Speaker:that experience been like? So the connection with Reykjavik
Speaker:University is a way to connect to young, talented people, to
Speaker:teach them some of the lessons I learned. You know, I started as a scientist.
Speaker:My business education was zero. I learned things, a lot of it the hard way.
Speaker:And it's an interesting dialogue between regulation, technology, and
Speaker:business. This is entrepreneurship. And I have horror stories about each of
Speaker:the 3. Okay. So I'm hoping that I'm giving them the tools to understand the
Speaker:3 words. Again, you don't have to be an expert, but you have to understand
Speaker:all these 3 words and your decisions are governed by those 3 issues:
Speaker:regulation, business, and technology. I include algies in the technology
Speaker:side, although it's not That's exactly true. Okay. So that's something. And then you have
Speaker:a chance to work with it, with this. A lot of the employees start as,
Speaker:you know, master's students, PhD students, and then we fell in love with them, they
Speaker:fell in love with us and the algae, and then we stayed together. So for
Speaker:me, to connect to the society I will live in and
Speaker:operate in and share the experience, and I think it's
Speaker:been so far been working great. It's a very unique place. I, again, coming from
Speaker:MIT, I underestimated the talent I can place with
Speaker:300,000 people. Okay, they are amazing, super. I'm
Speaker:forgetting that I'm not in Boston when I'm there. The amount of
Speaker:talent and curiosity and high-quality people is like
Speaker:something I cannot describe. You have to be there. Yeah, it
Speaker:sounds like it's been an eye-opening and enlightening experience for you, not
Speaker:only from a cultural perspective but also from this ability to continue to give
Speaker:back, which I imagine, you know, as a professor now and you can see young
Speaker:minds really hungry to learn and to
Speaker:understand, you know, all these new technologies, future technologies.
Speaker:And I think having your perspective and your background is really bringing this
Speaker:interesting mix to them that they probably wouldn't have had the chance to experience otherwise.
Speaker:I'm not only academic, I bring a different flavor to— I'm connecting
Speaker:them to reality a little bit. And I also hope that they learn to ask
Speaker:tough, you know, I think a lot of times there's a narrative that is
Speaker:not supported by science. For example, I'll give you one example. So, meats are
Speaker:bad for the environment, but vegetarian-based foods are great for the
Speaker:environment. Let's eat vegetables. If you kind of think about it in terms of, you
Speaker:know, real numbers of including nutritional value, it's not that
Speaker:in some cases the answer is yes, in some cases the answer is no. Okay.
Speaker:So you have to have, you know, a way to challenge the common
Speaker:beliefs. Okay. But if you do that, you are
Speaker:on your path to do something interesting and different and new. And, uh, I
Speaker:hope that some of them You know, I shook them hard enough so they started
Speaker:asking questions and thinking about this in a different way. As we wrap up,
Speaker:just curious, what keeps you motivated, you know, to get out of bed on a
Speaker:day-to-day? I can tell you that I'm very
Speaker:happy with what I do. I have to pinch myself sometimes to see how blessed
Speaker:I am because I live my dream. I work with the people I love personally,
Speaker:each one of them, and I feel that I bring a lot of good to
Speaker:the world. So I can't wait for the next day. So that's how I live.
Speaker:And I know how pressure— I've been in other situations as well. Okay, so it
Speaker:doesn't happen every day, but I made a choice. You know, I was a professor
Speaker:in Israel at the time. I was not connected to any kind of
Speaker:venture, and it's like I felt like, you know, in a basketball game, you
Speaker:know, the two commentators, they sit in a studio and they comment on the
Speaker:game, but they're not sweating, they're not influencing the score, right? They're just
Speaker:giving advice or comments about the game. I didn't want to be one. I didn't
Speaker:want to be a professor that judges other people's work. I wanted to be in
Speaker:the trenches, fight for something that I believe in. And
Speaker:on that level, I'm living my dream. It's very inspiring. We're going to make sure
Speaker:we have links to all the, the, the site, Orlo, in
Speaker:the show notes. So if anyone has any questions— Isaac, I really appreciate you taking
Speaker:the time to share your inspirational journey. It's really exciting to learn all the different
Speaker:things and crops that are being raised in the vertical farming environment.
Speaker:And every day is like a new adventure for me because I get to
Speaker:experience the enthusiasm you have, you know, living
Speaker:part-time in a different country, which is not something probably years ago you thought would
Speaker:be part of your life's journey. But it just goes to show how exciting it
Speaker:is to leverage the best parts of this planet, like the
Speaker:geothermal energy that's happening, that you're able to— it's almost like marry these
Speaker:different parts of the beauty of what this planet is to create
Speaker:something bigger and better for humanity. So it's very inspiring.
Speaker:So I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. Pleasure to be here,
Speaker:Harry. And please don't believe a word I say. You're welcome to Iceland to touch,
Speaker:feel, eat, experience everything I just mentioned firsthand.
Speaker:Yeah, well, Reykjavik has always been on the places
Speaker:to visit, so now I have a reason and someplace to go see as well.
Speaker:So I'll make sure we include that as well, but we'll make sure we include
Speaker:the links. Anywhere else you want to send folks? We have vaxa.life
Speaker:and orlonutrition.com. Anywhere else for people and listeners to connect
Speaker:with you? These two are great. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Isaac.
Speaker:Thanks to Dr. Isaac Burzin for taking the time to come on the
Speaker:show. As always, full show notes available at
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. Make sure you check out all
Speaker:the work we do there— summary, timestamps, key takeaways. Any of the
Speaker:resources mentioned on the show are available there as well.
Speaker:Special thanks to our Season 7 title sponsor, Cultivated. If you're looking to a vertical
Speaker:farm and don't know where to start, or which technology would suit your needs, reach
Speaker:out to them today. Best of all, their service is free because they work on
Speaker:behalf of their partners. Learn more at cultivatt.com, and that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com. Just leave out that last E.
Speaker:This episode is brought to you by Indoor AgCon 2023.
Speaker:I'm so happy to have been working with the team last year. Indoor AgCon
Speaker:2022 was my very first indoor farming conference,
Speaker:so it was really eye-opening me. So I'll always be grateful to the team there
Speaker:for rolling out that carpet for me. And I really had a good time
Speaker:meeting a lot of past guests and excited to join them again this year. Entering
Speaker:its 10th year in a row, it's the largest trade show and conference for vertical
Speaker:farming and CEA, and it's returning to Caesars Forum Conference Center
Speaker:in Las Vegas on February 27th and 28th of 2023.
Speaker:Once again, they'll be co-located with the National Growers Association Show as well, which
Speaker:is a real a good fit for them. The conference keeps growing, and this year
Speaker:it's doubled in size. The expo floor now has more than
Speaker:170 booths filled with new product resources and
Speaker:solutions to explore. You'll hear from experts including CEOs,
Speaker:growers, investors, and others in the field during this full-scale
Speaker:educational conference. As always, you'll be able to connect with peers, grocers, and other
Speaker:potential new business partners at their great networking events. I haven't even gotten
Speaker:to the best part. The team at Indoor AgCon has given
Speaker:Listeners of this show 20% off their full access
Speaker:conference pass. All you have to do is use promo code VFP, as
Speaker:in Vertical Farming Podcast, and sign up at indoor.ag.
Speaker:See you there. Podcast production and marketing provided by Fullcast. Learn more at
Speaker:fullcast.co. As a reminder, if you're enjoying the show, please leave us a
Speaker:rating and review at ratethispodcast.com/vfp. We'll be sure to read those
Speaker:out on future episodes.
Speaker:Tune Join me next week for our conversation with another fascinating leader from the world
Speaker:of vertical farming. It's Tim Haigh, CEO of Scale
Speaker:Microgrids. Until we meet again, here's to your health. Thanks
Speaker:for listening. To read the full show notes for this episode, which
Speaker:includes any links mentioned in the episode, as well as a full show
Speaker:transcription, visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com.
Speaker:There, you can sign up for our email list to be notified when new
Speaker:episodes are published.
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