Molly Conlin Peterson is an executive and career transition coach with over 23 years of experience helping thousands of professionals, leaders, and executives find more meaningful work. Her approach blends positive psychology with the research of Dr. Brené Brown, guiding clients to lead with courage, purpose, and heart. Molly has worked with organizations like Wells Fargo, 3M, SoFi, Feeding America, Better Up, and the University of Minnesota, where she also taught Strategic Career Planning. She holds an MA in Human Development, is a PCC-level ICF Certified Coach, and is certified in a range of career and leadership assessments, including MBTI, Strong Interest Inventory, and Leadership Circle Profile.

We're diving into Career Transitions, slowing down to speed up. Seriously, when life throws you a curveball—like getting laid off—it's all too easy to panic and rush into the job market. But hold your horses! Taking a moment to breathe and really feel what you're going through can lay a solid foundation for your next move. We chat about how to dream big, explore what's possible, and self-reflect on what you genuinely want, all while equipping yourself with the tools to show up stronger in interviews and meetings. So, grab your favorite drink, kick back, and let’s unravel the art of transitioning with a sprinkle of courage and a dash of humor!

The world of career transitions is a wild ride, especially when the news is filled with layoffs and uncertainty. In our recent chat with career coach Molly Conlon Peterson, we unpack the emotional rollercoaster that comes with losing a job and how to navigate it with grace. Molly emphasizes that it’s completely normal to feel all sorts of emotions when faced with a layoff—shock, anger, confusion—you name it. But here’s the deal: instead of rushing into the job market, we should take a moment to collect our thoughts and really think about what we want next. It’s about hitting the pause button to dream a little, to explore what feels right for us, and to lay the groundwork for a successful job search.

As the conversation unfolds, we dive into the nitty-gritty of what to do after a layoff. Molly shares that it’s crucial to do some inner work first—getting clear on your skills, your values, and what you want to achieve in your next role. She introduces the concept of a 'Best Self Profile' to help you articulate your strengths and what you’re looking for moving forward. And while it’s tempting to throw your resume at every job out there, Molly suggests a more strategic approach: take your time, understand what you truly want, and craft your story to align with that vision. In this job market, it’s not just about getting a job; it’s about getting the right job that fits you like a glove.

Then, we pivot to the power of networking and how to leverage connections effectively. Instead of the old 'I need a job' line, Molly encourages a more thoughtful approach: be specific about what you need and how others can help you. Whether it’s asking for introductions or advice, networking should feel like a supportive conversation rather than a transactional exchange. Lastly, both Kent and Molly agree that showing compassion and empathy during these times is crucial—not just for those who are laid off but also for those left behind. We all have a role to play in supporting each other through these transitions, fostering a community that uplifts and empowers. So whether you're navigating your own career storm or helping a friend, remember: take it slow, stay connected, and keep the faith that the right opportunity is just around the corner.

Takeaways:

• Taking a moment to collect your feelings can set the stage for better decision-making in career transitions.
• Slowing down the job search process can lead to landing in a better place and being more prepared.
• Understanding your strengths, values, and what you truly enjoy doing is critical for effective career planning.
• Networking should be about building relationships, not just asking for jobs; be specific and offer help in return.

Links for today's show:

• Molly's Linked In Page
• Molly's website
• Kent's Linked In Page
• Promoted Leader Playbook

**Music for this podcast comes from the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on PertNeaerSandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.**

*Editing by Fynn Gentle / www.fynngentle.com

Take a moment to really collect yourself and feel what you're feeling. Then you can start to lay that foundation of some of that inner work and start to dream about, what would I like to have happen? What's possible?

What do I like to do best? I would just also say I think people start to feel that panicky feeling of I just need to land. I just need to get a job.

And by slowing it down a little bit, you're probably going to land in a better place. You're going to show up in those meetings in a better place.

You're going to be more prepared, you're going to have more thoughtful questions, you're going to have a more thoughtful story to tell. And so it's that counterintuitive of go slow to go fast.

Hi there and welcome to the Step up expert Voices for Leadership Growth. I'm your host, Kent Knievel. Every week I talk to experts who focus on helping leaders step up their leadership game.

If you're new to the show, then on whatever platform you're using, I encourage you to subscribe so you never miss an episode. One last thing.

As a leadership development consultant and executive coach, I have a particular interest in supporting recent internally promoted leaders.

If that's you, or if you support a leader who has been recently promoted, I encourage you to visit my website at Kent Coach Playbook and download a free copy of my 90 day blueprint filled with practical advice for you or the leader you support in hitting the ground running and truly stepping up to their new leadership level. Without further ado, on with the show. Welcome, everybody.

Today we're going to do a little bit of a departure from our usual, you know, focus on leadership and we're going to talk a little bit about being in career transition. You know, we'll talk a little bit more about this, but there's been a lot of news as of late today that we're recording. It is November 3rd.

Last week, Target Corporation. In my own backyard, I'm in Molly's backyard, who I'm going to introduce here in just a second.

You laid off about about a thousand people plus 800 unfilled roles are going to continue to go unfilled. Same week, Amazon announced somewhere around the potential of 30,000 layoffs. Sounds like they executed about 14,000 last week.

And I think this has been on my mind. And Molly and I were set to record today.

Again, I'm going to introduce Molly in just a second and she sent me an email and she's like, hey, do you want to talk about career transitions. That's actually a big, you know, part of what I do. And I said, well, this is a leadership podcast.

But then I'm reminded of a saying that my wife and I have from time to time when we feel a little rule bound on things where it's like, wait a second, I'm the adult. I get to make the rule.

Right?

And so I sort of said to Molly over email, I said, well, this is what my podcast is usually about, but I guess I created that rule, and I can break that rule anytime I want. So today we're going to be talking about career transitions. And with me for this conversation today is Molly Conlon Peterson.

She's an executive and career coach and founder of the Daring Venture. Thrilled to have you on, and thank you for prompting this conversation today.

Thank you. Thank you, Kent. It's lovely to be here, and I really appreciate the invite. I think this topic is really relevant given what's going on right now.

And so I'm excited to be here. And also, yeah, just to share some support for people, because I think a lot of people are out there feeling pretty unsettled. And.

Yeah, and I would add to that, too, you know, feeling unsettled if you've gotten the announcement or the, you know, that your job is ended or coming to an end, or even the looming, maybe your job could come to an end at any moment kind of feeling, or even those of us out here who are like, what can I do? I. I don't have a job. I can't give you a job, but I want to help in some way. So I have a feeling our conversation will cover the gamut here.

But before we get into that, Molly, I want to hear a little bit about your journey, career arc, you know, and sort of what land, you know, bring us. Bring us up to date with and what you're doing.

Yeah. Thank you for asking. So I have been doing career coaching and transition work for the past 28 years.

I'm founder of an organization called the Daring Venture. And I'll. I'll just share with you a little bit about how I got started.

So I spent the first 10 years of my career in selling advertising for arts publications, for newspapers, magazines, and then arts publications. And I was doing this work.

I can see the natural transition already.

How does she get here? How does that work?

And so, you know, I. I want to say this because I think a lot of times people are in a role where it looks really good on the outside. Like, I was working on street commission. I was Making great money.

I had a downtown, like, there's all these outer things that looked really cool and fun and inside, quietly, I just felt such a discontent. And so I started kind of looking around, trying to figure out, do I want to be a counselor? Do I want to be.

I really was into, you know, kind of figure out meaning and purpose for people. And then this thing happened. A friend of mine, a very.

One of my very best friends, got laid off and she got matched up with a career coach at an organization, a nonprofit organization that's still in existence today. It's called Women Venture. And so she, she came home from her first meeting. We were roommates at the time.

And she said, this woman has your job, you need to go meet with her. And so I did. I called her up, I went and met with her and she said, you know, we have volunteer opportunities.

And it was one of those things where, you know, it doesn't happen very often, but you, when you meet somebody and you talk to them and you're like, this is what I want to do. This is exactly. I had that feeling. And so I started volunteering there because I had a lot of like, freedom in my schedule.

I started volunteering there. I was doing coaching, then I was teaching classes, and then I started teaching another class.

So I, and I say this out loud because I think sometimes when people are making transitions, it's like, well, how do I get experience and, and go and try some things out and volunteer and put your skills to use and test drive it? And by doing that, I got confirmation. And then I ended up changing my. I was in math, getting a graduate degree at the time, and I changed my path.

And lo and behold, a job opened up there and I was clearly not the most qualified person. And I got it because I was basically doing the role. And, and it was another. There is another piece to this.

And I, I just want to say this out loud because I think this is what scares a lot of people from making changes too, is it was a pretty significant pay cut. And I was like, okay, I am going to bite the bullet. I'm going to figure this out. And. And I did.

So I did this for about five years and it's kind of where I cut my teeth and learned some skills. I finished my master's degree, got my coaching certification.

And then what happened is that there was a series of layoffs in, in our organization and my gym was part time. It was after 9 11. And I decided I had had this dream of starting my own practice. So.

So I Decided to take the leap of faith, but I wanted to do it wisely. So I ended up. Placement was really hot at the time. A lot of people were getting laid off. Not dissimilar to what's happening now.

So I ended up negotiating this role with an L placement organization where I would work for them part time and then I would see my own clients part time. And we came to an agreement and it worked beautifully for about 10 years. So that is kind of how I got going on doing career transition work.

And I just. There was a couple highlights that I want to just point out because I think they're kind of cool.

I think, you know, one of the things that, that was fun to work on. There was a. Because a lot of people at Midlife are trying to figure out.

I think a lot of people like at Target right now were there's higher level executives.

They're like, okay, I'm not quite to the retirement age, but I need to find something that's meaningful and purposeful and practical, probably make some money or maybe I can partly retire. So figuring out like that next chapter of what that's going to look like, it's that encore career planning.

I was involved pretty heavily with the guy who invented gps, started this Empowered Careers in California and it was a partnership with UCLA and we developed a program for midlife career changers. And we're coaching those, those changers and then kind of figuring out of some structures to put in place for them.

So that was, that was one startup and then the other one that was really kind of fun was there's an organization called Social Finance sofi. They're out of California and there's a loan company and they provide.

They started providing career transition services to everyone who was a member because they thought, well, if people get back to work earlier then they're not, not going to have a problem with loans.

And then if people have a good career TRA trajectory, they're going to make probably more money and then they're going to buy a house and then they're going to feel loyalty. So it was really a brilliant idea.

Oh wow.

Yep.

And then the, the other piece that I guess I want to bring in today that's, that's pretty meaningful is about 12 years ago I took a little bit of a turn and started. There's a woman by the name of Dr. Brene Brown who's pretty well known, she's written a bunch of books.

I went and was a huge fan of hers and went and got certified in her work and started a second business called the Daring Venture which is now kind of where I've rolled everything into. It's a partner. And we started bringing that work to leaders and teams.

It was a program called Dare to Lead and it was really transformational work, courage building skills.

And one of the kind of the primary premises of Bernays, you know, work in that is, is, you know, when you think about being courageous and doing something that feels out of your comfort zone, it's vulnerability, right? Risk, emotional exposure with no guarantee really what job search is all about.

And it's when you're about to do those things, it's not fear that holds you back.

It's those moments of how do you self protect those pattern ways that we self protect when we feel vulnerable and how do you then build those skills, those small moments of courage so that you can do the thing you really want to do and get past those feelings of okay, this is my pattern, this is what I do. This is how I show up in these situations and start to, you know, do those small things that actually move forward.

And that's true in leadership, that's true in life, that's true in career change. And I really think that's the piece that for a lot of people, you know, we can do a roadmap of how do you do a career change.

But man, career, career, I mean this is hard work. This is scary work. It's scary for people to be in transition. There's a lot of feelings and emotions.

You're putting yourself out there in ways that require resilience and it's, it's, it's courage. Right. And so this, this work, I feel like this, this is a culmination, right, of career transition stuff.

And then the courage and those get combined to be a really kind of way that we can help people transform.

Yeah, yeah, you're right. I think and, and I'd be shocked if anyone listening doesn't know who Brene Brown is.

Given, given the audience and having been on the job market myself a number of times in my career.

I 100 agree with what you're saying here in terms of just the, there's this element of courage, the, you know, this, the need to, I think there's even a book titled this and I'm not necessarily trying to quote that, but the, the ability to feel the fear and do it anyway right around certain things. Like, like networking, for example. I think a lot of people, I think, have a bad impression of what good networking actually is.

And even if you have a sense of what good networking is and could look like, it's still a, it's a, you still have to, I don't know, for lack of a better way to put it, like, you still have to swallow some level of pride in order to put yourself out there. Right.

So let me, let's, let's get into this because, you know, let me add a little extra context too because I, I was just looking at this last week and I don't, I'm not going to pull it all up so I'm not going to be able to quote it all correctly. But you know, you've got, while in the Twin Cities, where I believe you're located here too, right? Yeah.

So while in the Twin Cities, the announcement about Target last week was pretty big. It is actually somewhere in the middle of the pack, if not lower third of the pack in terms of layoffs this year. Right.

And I think just since June with companies that are large enough to be remarkable or newsworthy, you know, we are approaching, you know, I think it's like over 170,000 layoffs. Right.

So if you, if you think about that for a minute and think about like the amount of small to mid sized companies that maybe are not big enough or don't have big enough names behind them to be remarkable or newsworthy, my guess is the number of layoffs just since June is probably well over 200,000. Right. And you know, that, that number hit me really hard last week. You know, I'm trying to think about, you know, what can I do?

I'm not a career coach. I learned a lot of valuable lessons about networking way back when.

I, you know, more than like, you know, probably 12 years ago or more when I was really first trying to leave consulting and get into HR and interestingly going, you know, from HR to now being, you know, solo consultant, entrepreneur, however you want to word that interesting in some regards how networking and sales are very much very interrelated, if not identical. You know, like, that's one thing I'm thinking about is like how you know, how can I help people learn how to network better or things like that?

But I don't want to barrel down that topic yet necessarily.

But, you know, I think it was when, when you reached out on Friday before we were recording and you were like, hey, you know, I think you must have seen something that I posted about it. And you're like, hey, you want to have that conversation instead?

And I was like, I think just felt compelled to say, yeah, so where do you want to start the conversation about, you know, maybe we start with that oh, shit moment of I got the 15 minute meeting on my calendar. You know, maybe we take it from there.

And I just want to say, like, like my heart goes out to so many people that are in this, in this boat. And I think one of the things when you are in this boat, there's shock, there's, you know, anger, disbelief.

All of those feelings are here, especially, you know, what's going on because so many people are getting laid off on one hand. It normalizes it. And so there's like this feeling of like, hey, I'm not alone.

Every, this is happening to everyone because I think there's this piece of, am I not good enough? Why did they pick me? And then, then there's also this like, fear of like, oh my gosh, everybody's flooding the job market right now.

So I think I just, I just want to say that out lo. So give yourself a beat to feel what you're feeling.

Get some support, give yourself some grace, you know, I think, you know, so many people say, well, you got to get out there right away and get networking. And I would say just take a moment, you know, to really collect yourself and, and, and feel what you're feeling.

And then, then you can start to lay that foundation of some of that inner work and start to dream about, you know, okay, what, what, what would I like to have happen, you know, what, what's possible? What do I like to do best?

And I think I, I would just also say, I think people start, start to feel that panicky feeling of I just need to land, I just need to get a job. And, and by slowing it down a little bit, you're probably going to land in a better place.

You're going to show up in those meetings in a better place. You're going to be more prepared, you're going to have more thoughtful questions, you're going to have a more thoughtful story to tell.

And so it's that counterintuitive of go slow, to go fast and start think about those, those do that. Like I have a best self profile. You know, it's skills, values, strengths, personality, imaginary lives. That's a really fun one.

Purpose, you know, what are the practical needs and to kind of just go through those things, to just refresh because it might be different today than it was, you know, five years ago or what you last looked for a job.

Right, right. Yeah. Well, let me, you know, my number one recommendation for people is if you were offered outplacement service, transition service, take it.

Like, don't, don't sit on that. And I'm going to give like my mischievous reason first and foremost is more often than not, if you do not like.

So I, I both used and I worked for Lee Hecheck Terracin for a very short amount of time as a transition coach. So I do have some experience as a transition coach, even though it's not necessarily what I do.

Although I would say I always have like one person that I'm coaching in transition more as like out of care than what it is that I'm doing.

But in some cases, the way these contracts work with these outplacement firms are the company doesn't pay if you don't actually call and initiate and, and act activate that service.

So there's a, there's a mischievous part of me that always says, like, hey, go find out what the minimum is that you need to do to make sure your former employer pays for this. Right. But that's just me being kind of snarky. But at the very least, most of these, at the very least give a resume review, if not a resume rewrite.

And, and that in and of itself, if you.

Because I think one of the things that I keep seeing in these, for me, gut wrenching LinkedIn posts that I see from folks is people with 15 to 25 years. I mean there's plenty of people with less than 15 who are being laid off four years, five years or less. Yes.

But you know, I'm thinking about these folks who are in that 15 to 25 year mark who may have not put a resume together in 20 years, who haven't interviewed with somebody they don't know already in 20 years. Right.

And so even just this, I, I always say the resume reviewer rewrite is probably in the ballpark of three to five hundred dollars in value that your outgoing employer is essentially paying for. Right. So I always say first and foremost, if you're being offered transition services, take it. Right? Do it.

If, if, if it's with, you know, sometimes there's no choice. It's. Here's who we use. That's the package. And I, I wager in some.

There's probably some cases where there's some flexibility of we will pay for a transition service, and you might need to do some legwork to find someone. But I think that would probably be more the exception than the rule, I think more companies. Here's who we work with, and here's your.

You have this many days to activate it.

That's exactly.

Well, how would you. Yeah, how do you want to.

I. I agree with you. I mean, that's a service. You're getting support, and you should.

If you have a service that's already in place, you should absolutely take advantage of that because they're going to support you in lots of different ways. And, you know, if.

If you have an amount of money, I mean, I've had clients come to me that say, hey, I got assigned to this person, but I'd rather work with you. And I negotiated that with my employer.

And so you can do exactly what you just said if you're so inclined, but if you have free career transition services, 100%, because that's a support system and that structure, and that's kind of what you need right now, is somebody to kind of guide you through this process and help you be a thought partner and help you brainstorm and think things through and. And just revisit all those elements of. Of. Because you're.

You're in it, and it's hard to be outside of yourself, to have somebody that can kind of take you through it.

Yeah. So let me, Let me shove us forward a little bit, because I, I think this is a. A unique conversation for. For my podcast, at least.

All right, so you're a part of someone. You know, you're part of a group who may have gotten laid off last month. Right. So it's. You're maybe about a week in to.

Either your job has already ended or you have an end date listed. Maybe you're still technically transitioning out. What should people be doing?

Yeah, well, to your point, take a beat. I like that, for sure. Get a journal, start to write down things because, you know, capture, you know, what do I love to do the most?

You know, what do I want to do next? What's possible, what's most important.

You know, either talk that through with somebody or, you know, write it down for yourself and then keep a list of ideas and options that you think you might want to check out. I also highly recommend just revisiting some of Those assessments.

The Myers Briggs is awesome because it actually has lists of careers that you may not have even thought about that can open up possibilities or confirm like, oh yeah, that does make sense based on my Myers Briggs or the strengths finder.

Because what you really want to do is leave with your, Be able to tell your story and be able to say, here's what I've done, here's what I do really well. So list out some of those accomplishments that you're most proud of. That can also be really helpful.

And then here's kind of what I want to do next and start to just kind of put that framework together and start to make lists of people. But you don't have to, like, at this point, you're doing that inner work of you want to get yourself online.

Figure it out first so that those conversations, you know, like 70% of jobs are found through networking. I think that number has gone up now because of all the easy, Easy app, you know.

Yep.

And.

And just how many people are on the market too. Right. And you probably see a bit more of this given, you know, what's in your algorithm compared to mine.

But I know there's a lot of talk about how AI has, is being used for helping people tweak their resume, you know, to, to beat. Beat the applicant tracking system. Right. Which interestingly, we say AI about everything. It's. It's large language models, it's machine learning.

Right. Which applicant tracking systems have been using for years. Right. Scanning resumes for keywords. Right. And that can be really tricky.

And not that I want to dive into this yet, but that can be really tricky because what the words your company uses for something might be very different from, you know, the words another company uses for something. Right. And so, and it can be a lot, you know, if, if people are applying to.

So on the one hand, and I didn't want to get into this, but here I am getting into it because there was something else I wanted to talk about, but I would, I would say you should be using, I mean, that makes light work. Right. If you're using AI. Right.

As a thought partner, being able to say, here's this job posting, here's my Resume, don't have it do the work for you, actually ask it to make recommendations to you for you to do. That way you know what's being tweaked and what's not.

But saying like, what do you recommend I update specifically in my resume, you know, to help match the language of the company or whatever.

I, I think you're bringing up a great. I mean, AI is a tool. It, it, it can be incredibly.

I was just at a career conference and we were talking about, you know, how do you prompt it for all these different things, like prepping for interviews, you know, this exactly what you just said. Take the job description, take your resume prompted into AI. And then, you know, that's a jumping off point. So AI can be incredibly helpful.

And the flip side of that is that now everybody, it's so easy to apply for all of these jobs because you can just take these two things and then a lot of the job resumes look alike for recruiters.

Yeah. And this is where I think you had said something, and here's. Let me go back to it now.

You had said something about the percentage of jobs that are found through your network versus applying and the quote, unquote, hidden job market.

Right.

And I honestly thought that was a bit of hui until I became a career coach. And out of the, you know, I probably had 100 or some odd people that I was coaching.

And, you know, sure enough, I mean, I don't have the numbers in my head, but a number of them got a job through their network. Right.

And if not, kind of going back to this point about everyone, you know, if everyone's using chat GPT to tweak their resume, everybody's resumes are looking the same.

Having someone walk your resume to the hiring manager, if not the recruiter, is one way to at least, you know, it can at least fast track a phone call. But I would say that that's the, you know, kind of getting back to the, you know, importance of networking, which I want to make sure we dive into.

Let me back up one more step and say, but first, you said first, take a beat. There's some work, there's some inner work you can do to kind of think about who you want to be, what you want, what really fires you up.

I also think what's interesting in this day and age is like, do I make a LinkedIn announcement or not? Right.

And my personal opinion on that is when you're a part of an unremarkable layoff, meaning it's not newsworthy, I always Encourage people to wait a little bit, you know, before they were to make an announcement, just start networking. But when with these mass layoffs, I have a completely 180 opinion on that is it is newsworthy.

People know, it tends to be pretty common knowledge that these are deep cuts that have little to do with performance. And so in these cases I say put, put the green banner up on LinkedIn.

Make, you know, make some kind of announcement in this case because people do want to help. Right. And if they don't know, they might not know to help. Right. But I'd love to get you, what are your thoughts on do you make.

I think that your, your point is a good one. Like there's these mass layoffs. People want to help. People are, I mean I think all of our hearts are going out to people who are laid off right now.

We want, everybody wants to help. And so it, it's, it's as the person that got laid up getting really clear about how can people help.

You tell people how they can help, like being really specific about, like if I'm meeting with this person, what would be how could they specifically help me? And getting that clear in your mind before you do the reach out before you, you know, and, and you might be exploring five or six different things.

But then, and I suggest getting it like a spreadsheet together because then you can get clearer on who am I.

Reaching out to for the listeners I am vigorously, what is my ask from.

Them, what's my goal with this conversation? And then who do they refer me to?

Because, you know, usually it's like, hey, here's my situation, here's what I love to do, here's what I'm looking to do next. And here's, you know, here's kind of who I want to talk to or get introduced to or explore more in it.

And then making sure that those people get followed back up with.

Yeah, let me, let me, let me add to that because I'm going to ask you some targeted questions because I think we're on the networking, which I wanted to make sure we got on the networking. And I want to ask you some targeted questions here, which is, but I want to add to the tracking thing. Best advice I ever got was to start tracking.

And I, I would add yes, and to everything you said here. But also I would add when did.

I talk to this person?

Like write that date down and was there any kind of follow up discussed in the call?

Like did they say, hey, you know, reach back out to me in a month, right Then add a column, you know, put this in Excel, add a column for that and say, you know, I'm going to reach back out to this person. This is the date, you know, we agreed upon.

Put that date in there and kind of use this as like essentially for those salespeople on the call, we're kind of talking about a personal CRM, essentially. Right. Is who did I talk to?

All right, but let's, let's break down networking for a minute because I think this is really, it's really hard for people both getting the courage up to reach out and ask someone for their time, but also figuring out what not to do and what to do in a networking call. So let me, let me start with. Because I think people have, I, I have run into more people who have a bad impression of networking than a good. Right.

And so let's start with what not to do. You know what, what's your advice on? Don't do this in a networking call. Then we'll get into the. Then, you know, get right into the.

But what should they do?

Well, I mean, I think that the first thing is, is if you are just laid up, people will say, well, just reach out to your network. And it's a big, I got laid off. I need a job. Well, that's not helpful. Right? Nobody's just sitting around thinking, oh, I've got a job for this person.

Right. And, and so it's being really specific with each individual about what can they do to help and then making sure you follow up.

If they've given you a referral, there's nothing worse than somebody helping you. And then they're giving, they're giving you a referral and you never, they never hear from you again. So making sure you.

Hey, I met with Joe Jones today. He was fantastic. Thank you so much for, for advocating for me. Here's my next step. Take them. Don't, don't just let them hang.

Make sure you're taking them on the journey with you and that they can feel a part of helping you. If that's then. And then what can you do for them?

Like, because I feel like, you know, sometimes it's, I think networking gets a bad rap because it's all about me, what do I need?

And, and sometimes you might have connections or ideas or even it might be something personal of making it a two way street so it doesn't feel transactional.

Yeah. Okay. I want to dissect some of these elements because I want to add one to the don't list, which I Think is okay.

I went through to the do's, didn't I?

You did. It's okay. I like it though. You're a coach. You are forward focused.

You are not in the past, but I think it's implied in what you said, which is we're not going to ask for a job. Right. When we reach out to someone, we are not asking them for a job.

Right.

No, we are reconnecting. Right.

We are, you know, perhaps telling our story of what, what happened to me, which I'd love to get your thoughts on that because I, I, I always struggle with helping people with that. But, and I have some ideas on. Especially if you're interested in jobs at that person's company.

I certainly have ideas on like, well, what are some of the questions you should ask?

But I think one of the best parts that, and this is like always do this that I always say, which is I always say you should ask for at least two connections right towards, towards the end of the call. Is there any, you know, it could be, you know, is there one or two people you think I should get to know at your company or.

And the more specific you can make it. Right. Better. Right. I always say everyone's ask is no one's asked. Such a broad ask doesn't help.

You're putting the labor like, is there anyone you think I should get to know? Well, the world becomes the possibility there versus saying, let's say I'm in marketing. Right. Be more specific.

Is there anyone in marketing that you think I should get to know? Is there anyone in. And now it's not. I'll have to go to my, Let me go to HR because that's my real background to say, like, is there anyone in.

Instead of hr, let's keep getting narrow. Is there anyone in learning and development that you think I should get to know?

Right.

And then, and I love your suggestion here of also. But follow up, let them know, hey, I did talk to so and so that you connected with me with. Thank you so much.

Here's where I'm at, you know, bringing, bringing people along because you never know.

Yes.

Just like we're seeing right now too. You never know when, you never know when people are going to get laid off. You never know when openings are going to come around.

Sometimes people you're talking to don't know and suddenly three weeks down the road, four weeks down the road, something opened up and you've been in contact and you might pop, you know, you might be, might come to mind for that person. So they can feed back how. What, what kind of advice do you give people on when it comes to networking?

I'm gonna stick with this for a minute here of like, what should they be saying and asking. Right. Other than four connections, you know, and oh, I also love how you said offer something.

Right.

And that can be hard.

Yeah.

What do you have to offer? Well, it can simply just be, let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

I've even gone to, if I'm talking to someone in talent management, I might say, hey, I've been at, you know, I've been at the big firm, you know, I've been at Korn Ferry. I've seen talent reviews implemented across three different companies in three completely different ways.

If you ever want to pick my brain, you know, about what I've seen, just let me know. Right? So you. It is not a problem to say, if there's anything I can do, let me know. Similar, similar to asking for connections.

If you can make it more specific in any way, that's always great. But I think people, I've always found, even if all you can say is, is there anything I can do for you? People appreciate that.

They do, they do. And it makes it a two way street.

And you can even pick up on something like, hey, they, they're, you know, in this role, there's an article I could send them or there's a, you know, a podcast I could send them. It doesn't have to be something that costs money, but it's just a thoughtfulness piece. Your point is a great one.

I mean, you have to be specific and you have to be clear. And then I would just maybe add on, is it, is this a networking meeting or is this an informational interview?

And those are different things and they're both valuable. And I think just set it up up front, Front.

Like, what am I, Is this a, is a networking, am I, you know, kind of brainstorming and getting information and maybe potential contacts, or am I informational interviewing you to find out what does the day to day of this role look like? And they're both, both valuable for different reasons.

So when would you want to do one versus the other?

Well, I mean, I think that your point, like, if you're, I, I just had a client that was in like a brand manager in a beauty industry and she wanted to transition to healthcare. So she's like, how are my skills gonna trans translate?

And so before she even started that networking piece, she's like, I need to do some informational interviews to see what the lay of the land is, how does this work? How will this transfer? What things do I need to be talking about? The language.

And I think it can also be helpful if you see an open role and you're like, I need to know about the culture of this company.

So if there's some unanswered questions, it can be a really great way to get to know the people that are actually probably going to maybe potentially open doors for you in the future.

Right.

Well, and I even say to people like, pretend you still have a job in your head for a minute and that it would take a lot to pull you, to recruit you away. What are the questions?

If that were the scenario that you would want to know about that company, that culture, that department or division or what have you, you know, and ask those questions, right? Like, how is that entire division organized? You know, where do decision rights land? How are the stakeholder relationships in that company?

But ask the questions from a sort of mentality of, I am employed, and these questions would need to be answered to my, like, satisfaction for me to want to leave.

Yes. I love that framework. You know that because you're, you're just curious.

It's a curiosity about the business and about how they run the business and about what, like your. To your point, how is, how is this strategically set up? What are their goals for the future? What's the culture like?

You know, all of those kinds of things can be. And then it can be building on, you know, a business conversation. So it's not about. I'm just, you know, here to get it.

It's like we can be thought partnering on things or sharing ideas, and that can be a really rich conversation, too, that actually helps people see who you are.

Yeah. What. What else is top of mind for you with kind of this news coming out and where people might be?

Well, I think your point is a good one. Just like, how do we support people that are in this spot and then the people that are in the spot. So I guess there's a couple categories, right?

There's people that are in the spot that need help and being able to have some courage to take a beat, really clarify your message, get clear on who you want to talk to, but just also think about being in this. Like, this is. This is hard work and it may take some time. And so how do you build some support structure around you?

How do you, you know, have, you know, people in your life that can cheer you on when you know it doesn't work out? And Kind of guide you through a process. So if you have outplacement, that's wonderful. I, I do outplacement with companies too.

But, but finding your people that can support you. And, and the thing is a lot of people that are laid off together can do that, a lot of that for each other as well.

Yeah.

You've got a group of friends that are all at Target. You guys can, you know, be that, be supporting each other. And in the process.

I want to add on, there's one thing you said which was.

But it made me think of at a certain point there will be a lot of diminishing returns in terms of how many hours you sit in front of your computer trying to manifest a job opening to.

Right.

Like yes. So I would say it's, it's like, sure, dive in and spend a huge chunk of time in your first couple of weeks because there's a lot.

If you haven't been on the job market, there's a lot to absorb. There's a lot of, A lot of jobs that have been sitting out there and hanging out there. Whether or not they're actually still available, who knows.

But you know, but after, I would say in my, my opinion after two or three weeks and even that's probably too long to be honest, but you know, there's sort of a lot of diminishing returns of sitting in front of your computer computer for eight hours every day and, and probably not the healthiest, you know, thing to do right. After a certain point.

100 agree. And, and this is why I like start. Maybe this is. There's is was like a little bit of a freedom in that right.

Of saying okay, I know in my head I think sitting in front of my computer is productive because that's what I've been doing all day. But it's not. And so getting out there, like maybe take a while.

I've had one of the things I always say to clients is volunteer even like five hours a week. Get in front of some new people, start to build your networks, get into ball nets and professional associations or you know, network.

Find some ways to get involved in your community or, or volunteer. You have space now in your, your day. So find some ways to connect, to give back, to test drive some ideas.

You know, if you're meeting with someone, say hey you know what, I have some time available. I would love to, you know, is there a small project I could just take on? Yeah.

So finding small ways to get in to organizations and to be, you know, there's that Whole concept of the luck surface. Right.

And it's like the more you put yourself out there, the more that you have conversations with people, the more that you are in person with people, probably your chances are going to go up.

Yeah, Yeah. I would say prepare yourself for weekends being kind of hard. Right. Without intention.

Right.

Because you, you feel some, some semblance of control some Monday through Friday while, you know, companies are operating and recruiters might be looking at your applications and you message people and maybe they're replying from a networking or informational interviewing perspective. But I, I, I would, in my own experience. Right.

This is probably one of the more critical times to be thoughtful and intentional about what your Saturday and Sunday consist of. Like, make some plans, do some stuff like get together with friends, schedule play dates for your kids, you know, get out of your house.

Because that was always the heart. Like, weekends were always really hard for me when I was between jobs.

It was just like, like there's, like, it felt like everything was coming to a screeching halt for two days. Like, everything, everything that I was focused on, which was, you know, next.

Right. No, I think this is such good advice, Kent. You know, get out of your house, be connecting with people.

Because it is, it doesn't necessarily have to be a professional connection, either of. And it just, it's, it's. I think your biggest job is how do I want to show up?

Because if you're in that spot of, oh, my gosh, I feel stuck, I feel I'm in despair, and you're just staying in your house in front of your computer, that's really tough. It's really tough to find a job that way.

And so it's giving yourself permission to be out, to be connecting with people, to be having some structure, maybe a walk every day at a certain time, you meet friends, you know, for coffee once a week, or working outside of the house, you know, having some practices and structure to your day, because I think that's a big one for people. You know, what are you going to do every day in the morning? So that's figured out. I'm going to, you know, take the dog for a walk.

I'm going to write down everything I'm grateful for.

I am going to be in meditation or prayer or whatever, but, you know, spending some time that you can ground yourself with some structure and some rituals in your day and in your week.

Okay, here's, here's what I'm gonna do because we have a little more time to keep talking.

Yeah.

I feel. And yet I'm watching the timer for my usual episode length and I'm like, okay, what do we do here? Here's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna do this is gonna become a two episode recording, my first ever. So. But here's, but let's, let's wrap up episode number one with. Because I think right now we've talked about, you've been laid off. Take some time.

Talked a little bit about resumes, we've talked a little bit about networking and kind of taking care of yourself. I think there's a bit more for us to probably talk a little bit about.

But when it comes to this kind of, I would say this first half, so to speak, of what we're talking about. What's. And we'll try to keep it really tight.

What's one piece of advice you have for job seekers and what's one piece of advice you have for people who are wondering how I can help?

Yeah, well, so I would say for job seekers, don't let this scare you because don't let the external circumstances get in the way of your meaning, your purpose, what you're here to do, and trust the process.

Because even in times where there's a lot of people laid off, and I've been doing this a really long time, I know that people usually end up in a better place than, than. And it can be scary and it is going to require you stepping out of your comfort zone.

But you just, just trust that if you're listening and you're doing that inner work and the outer work, that you will land in a good spot, that it is going to happen. So I think that's a big piece because it feels scary. And so just trust the process and trust that you will.

And I think for people that are in jobs, you know, I think that this is scary for them too because they're absorbing the fact that a lot of people have left the organization. The culture is changing. And so there's, I think it just collectively right now for all of us, we need to be in a place of compassion and empathy.

And how can I help my neighbor and how can I support anyone? Because we're all kind of in it, you know, whether you're in transition or you've been left behind, because that's a whole different thing too.

That's scary too. And waiting maybe for the other shoe to drop.

Yeah, let me, let me wrap us there for, for part one. So thank you all. And you know what I would say is next week, you know, the week after you're listening to this, we're gonna drop part two.

That brings us to the end of our episode. Thanks for listening. I'd encourage you to head on over to my website, Kent Coach, and start a conversation with me there.

Or check out my promotion playbook at Kent Coach Playbook. Before you go on with your day, I ask that you please take a moment to leave a rating and a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Five stars.

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