In this episode of “The Journey”, Robert explains the concept of spiritual walls and how they affect our growth as Christians but also how to overcome them in order to experience God’s best for you. Whatever the walls you are facing, this episode will encourage you to trust God and His grace in your life.

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OC Church of Christ

Welcome to the Deeper Dive Podcast brought to you by the OC Church of Christ.

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The Deeper Dive Podcast is about going

deeper into God's word, learning new

3

insight and taking a fresh look at the

verses that impact our daily lives.

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Today's episode is part three from

The Journey by Robert Carrillo.

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So get your scuba gear and

let's dive deep into God's word.

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Here's Robert Carrillo.

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Robert: So this class is, is part three,

The Wall, the Desert, and the Dark Night.

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You know, we, we talked about, we've

talked about transformation, and we've

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talked about the walls that we, the stages

of development, you know, the, the, the

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early stage where we discover God, where,

where we recognize God, the stage of Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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of, uh, the life of discipleship, what

we learn to live as disciples, the stage

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of productivity, where we get good at

it and we get productive and, you know,

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we're doing lots of things for God.

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And usually in that stage, and that stage

can go 10, 20, 30 years, but, but there's

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these growing, uh, feelings we get, or.

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Growing discontent or grow or something

happens that triggers us and we get

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stuck in a wall We hit this wall.

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So we're going to talk about that wall

and getting through that and I think it's

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incredibly Important because many get

stuck there So we're gonna start with

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John for and then Michelle's gonna share

some thoughts on this Let me go ahead

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and read it And then, Michelle, if you

could, um, share some thoughts on this.

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So, in John 4, uh, Jesus answered her.

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Remember, this is a scene

of the woman at the well.

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He says, If you knew the gift of God

and who it is that asks you for a

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drink, you would have asked Him And

he would have given you living water.

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Sir, the woman said, you have nothing

to draw with, and the well is deep.

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Where can you get this living water?

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Are you greater than our father

Jacob, who gave us the well and

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drank from it himself, as did

also his sons and his livestock?

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Jesus answered, Everyone who

drinks this water will be thirsty

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again, but whoever drinks the water

I give them will never thirst.

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Indeed, the water I give them

will become in them a spring of

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water welling up to eternal life.

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The woman said to him, Sir, give me this

water so that I won't get thirsty and

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have to keep coming here to draw water.

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There's some important principles here.

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Michelle, would you like to I'm kind

of putting you on the spot because

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I didn't even know you were going

to be able to make it tonight.

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But would you like to share

some thoughts on this?

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Yeah, I can.

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I can share.

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Um, and then you can.

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Add to it or whatever.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I think, um, I was reading

this scripture the other day

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and, um, it kind of especially.

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Okay.

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I'm going to say all this.

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I don't know how much it whatever.

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Okay.

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So in helping, um, uh, another

region work through some.

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Things in their ministries, I'm

realizing, like, sometimes you can

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get with a group of people and, and

they're, they, you know, want help for

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the single moms for the marriage for the

teens for the campus for the children's

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ministry for, uh, chemical recovery for.

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You know, a whole lot of specific things.

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And I, of course, I want all those

people to have the help that they need.

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And, um, and yet at the same time,

as people can list all these things,

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then they might even also say, but

nobody wants to volunteer to help.

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And, um, I think it kind of got

me thinking about how obviously

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God wants all these needs met.

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He wants people cared for, but I

think his answer is different than

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the answers we've come up with.

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And that's not to say we don't have

a class here or there, or we don't,

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um, focus on some of these needs.

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Um, but, um, I think when Jesus said, if

you knew the gift of God, And who it is

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that asks you for a drink, you would ask

him and he would give you living water.

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And it kind of stood out to me that

in, in, um, when we're baptized.

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I mean, we were told and now you will

receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and

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then we say, you know, and everybody

shares and and we just leave the gift.

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They're all wrapped up and we

don't know what to do with him.

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And it kind of just made me realize

that if we can really point people

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to what is really going to quench

their thirst, what is really going

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to make them, um, satisfied and

filled and, um, not thirsty anymore.

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It's Jesus.

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And I think sometimes we forget that.

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As leaders, we forget that as people,

we forget that as ministry people

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that if we can teach people how

to go to Jesus to get this living

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water, then they won't be thirsty.

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But if we continue to just

be the well in their life.

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Here, let me scoop out

some water for you here.

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Here's a cup.

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Now, that can be for the whole day

and next week to, you know, I mean,

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I think sometimes we, we, we kind of

mess up the plan with our plans, right?

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Like, if we can help people really

know that Jesus is the living

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water that to teach them how

to go get a drink from him to.

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To remember that God is always

with us that, um, this is,

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this is where we get our life.

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It's from him.

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It's not from people.

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It's not from even from the church,

although we obviously need the

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community, we need each other.

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That's not where the

living water comes from.

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So, um, but I do think that it it's.

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It sounds well, it's just

fundamentally correct that we

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go to God for this living water.

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We go to Jesus for this living water and

we don't try to be a well in their life.

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Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, um, and,

and the reason why we were going into

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dealing with the wall with this scripture

as an introduction to that is because

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it is the most fundamental principle.

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It may sound obvious, like, well,

of course, it's Jesus that helps us.

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Of course, it's the Holy Spirit that

will get us through things, but.

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It isn't our our practical instinct.

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It isn't what we naturally do.

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We want we want to You know as when we're

leaders We want to fix everybody or we

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create a program or we expect things

to help us to serve us To fix us or to

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do for us And oftentimes the practical

reality is we're not turning to God.

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We're not going to the well of life,

which, you know, of course, water

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represents the Holy Spirit, and we're

not drinking from the Holy Spirit.

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We're not learning how to, to, uh,

Rely on the Holy Spirit that we're

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not learning how to yoke ourselves to

Jesus We're looking for solutions and

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if and if the first solution isn't

coming to the well of Jesus, then

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we find other things It's a program.

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It's a leadership model.

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It's the way the church

should be organized.

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It's how we do church.

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It's top down leadership It's this that

and all those things are important.

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I'm not saying they're not important We

got to get those things right, but what's

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far more important is that we learn how

to draw from Jesus, that we learn how

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to drink from the Holy Spirit, because

that's the water that will keep us from

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being in thirst and hunger all the time.

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That's the water that quenches our thirst.

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That's the water that

blesses us and helps us.

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And this is important.

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This is the important principle

behind dealing with the walls that

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we're, we're going to hit in life.

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And in fact, the very reason there

are even leaders in the church or

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leaders in life for this very reason.

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So Christ himself gave the apostles, the

prophets, the evangelists, the pastors,

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and teachers to equip his people for works

of service so that the body of Christ may

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be built up until we all reach unity in

the faith and in the knowledge of the son

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of God and become mature attaining to the

whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

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In other words, that we

all grow up in Jesus.

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And attain, attain, that we grab

a hold of, that we drink deeply,

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that we, that we root ourselves,

that we ground ourselves in Jesus.

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Then we'll no longer be infants tossed

back and forth by the waves blown

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here and there, by the wind of every

teaching, by the cunning and craftiness

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of people and their deceitful scheming.

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Instead, speaking the truth in love,

we will grow to become, in every

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respect, the mature body of Him.

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Right?

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Of Jesus, who is the

head, that is, Christ.

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So it's all about, and every role of

leadership is about growing up in Jesus.

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Learning how to drink the water from

Him, so that we're not constantly

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thirsty, so we don't have to

keep coming back, so we solidify.

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And that really is The root or the, the,

the foundation of getting through walls.

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So just as a reminder, we talk, you know,

as we're marching along in our Christian

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life, we're in that productive stage.

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And then we hit a wall.

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It can be a faith crisis, you know,

that, that something terrible happens to

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somebody we love, uh, you know, something.

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unfathomable.

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A child gets cancer or, or

something happens in the world

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that just rocks our faith.

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And we hit this wall of why,

God, why would you allow this?

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Why, why didn't you do this?

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Why didn't you, we prayed to you.

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Why didn't you change it?

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That sometimes is a wall that we hit.

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We hit conflicts in the

church that just rock us.

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We get in a conflict with another

leader or another brother or sister

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and, and we just can't fix it.

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And it becomes a wall.

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We can't move forward.

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We're, we're, we're not happy.

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We're not, we're, we're upset.

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We feel, you know, it's

not fair or it's not right.

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And that could be a wall, a life

crisis, you know, something happens.

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We lose something, we lose a job.

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We, we go through a crisis, something

that, that we didn't, we, we didn't

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want to see happen in our life, you

know, or somebody we love something

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happens to somebody we're close to

things that are unresolved doubts,

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questions we had about the church, about

the Bible, about God, about a leader,

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about a person that after, you know,

we could only, we could, we ignored it.

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We brushed it under the rug 5, 10, 15

years, and that rug had a mountain that

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we just couldn't get beyond anymore.

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And then we have to deal with it.

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We gotta deal with our doubts.

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We gotta deal with, or sometimes it's,

it's hurts that are not resolved, right?

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And they're piling up and

piling up and piling up.

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And like a couple that hasn't

resolved their conflicts, they

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just blow up one day, right?

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We blow up with the church.

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We blow up with leaders.

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We blow up with somebody

in our Bible talk.

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And then another one that's very

different, but very, I would say

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one of the most common ones is

burnout, where we just get tired.

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We've physically pushed too far, too much.

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And, and we get to a point

where we hit a wall physically.

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I just, I can't do this anymore.

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Uh, or emotionally.

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And oftentimes these

three are tied together.

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But emotionally getting burned out where

I've got I've yeah, I've got compassion

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fatigue I just can't give anymore or

spiritual fatigue for spiritual burnout.

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I don't want to lead anything I don't want

you know, we've all felt that we've all

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seen others pull away and say, you know

people who led House churches or led lots

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of people to Jesus or we're in there.

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We're doing marriage counseling helping

other couples And then they hit a wall and

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they're like don't ask me to do anything

I think we got a lot of people there.

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They're just they're sitting in the back

and they're like i'm done i'm done Don't

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ask me to do anything They're just they're

at burnout and they need to get through

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this and there's a way to get through

it the last one is the the dark night

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of the soul, this is probably one of the

toughest ones because um You know, it's

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it's it's different than all the others.

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This is when you just you feel like

you've lost god You you're praying

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But you're not connecting you feel

like you're talking to a wall.

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You feel like god has

abandoned you This is psalm 22.

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My god.

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My god.

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Why have you forsaken me?

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You feel alone you you're

praying if you haven't seen it.

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You got to see the movie the two popes um,

I think I recommended this already, but

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it's It's a it's a movie about the dark

night of the soul and one of the popes

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is going through a dark night of the soul

And there's little there's a little scene

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at the beginning that I never caught it

the first couple of times I saw it But

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like the third or I think it was the third

time I saw it that I caught it at the

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beginning There's a candle and the candle

burns out And the smoke just goes down.

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It doesn't go up.

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And of course, if you remember smoke,

the smoke rising from the, from

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the, from the temple was the prayers

of the saints going up to heaven.

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In other words, his prayer wasn't

going up to heaven anymore.

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It was just dropping down.

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That's the dark night of the soul.

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You feel alone.

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You feel abandoned.

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And.

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And the thing is, is that you don't

get to the mature or the deeper,

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stronger stages of spirituality

until you get through these walls.

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And, and these walls are very difficult.

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They're tough times.

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A lot of people slip into deconstruction

where just, I don't know, I don't

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know if I Believe in the church.

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I don't know if I believe in our doctrine

sometimes even I don't know if I believe

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in God or I believe in the Bible We we

get this place where we got questions.

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We have doubts We have fears and we have

to work through them and you know, I

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mentioned this in the last class that

sometimes it's really challenging because

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we we can get kind of cranky in this

stage and we question everything and we

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And we kind of demand the answers and

we can get kind of prideful about this.

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And, and, you know, this is what

like spiritual adolescence, it's

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like when our preteens start

questions, why do we have to do this?

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Why do we got to have family devotionals?

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Why do we have to believe, you know, why

do we got to go to church every Sunday?

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I mean, I remember when each of my kids.

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It's hitting that stage and questioning.

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Why do I have to do it?

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What you say, you know, it's like,

wait a second, buddy, I'm your dad.

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I do it because I say so.

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And that same temptation

is for all leaders, right?

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It's a member starts questioning.

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Why are we doing this?

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Why do we have to do that in the church?

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Who, you know, why, why do

we have to do what you say?

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And the temptation for the leaders is

to come down and say, because I say so.

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That's why, because we

generally don't like.

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Dealing with rebellion or deconstruction

is like a dirty word, especially these

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days, you know, and we're seeing it.

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We're seeing lots of young people

deconstruct Christianity deconstruct the

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church, and there's that temptation to

come down on them, you know, how dare you

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question or don't you know, you know, and,

and, you know, as parents, when we had

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teens, most of us learned not to react.

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To love them through it to help them

get through that phase or at the very

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least just hang in there You know hang

in there don't react don't destroy

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your relationship with your son or your

daughter Just keep loving them and they'll

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get through this this too will pass And

and that's you know for for many leaders.

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That's a that's a very hard thing to

keep loving somebody Who's at a wall,

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or who's deconstructing the church.

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But the problem is, this is a normal

part of spiritual development.

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We all go through these stages, where

we're just like, I'm not believing

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this anymore, I'm not doing this

anymore, or I don't agree with that.

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And that's okay.

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I mean, we have to figure

out what is our faith.

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And that's, that's what begins the inward

journey where we start to figure out

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not what does the church believe and

what have I practiced all these years.

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It's what do I believe?

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What do I really believe?

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What's my conviction in this?

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And in a sense, you become,

you, you rediscover God.

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You kind of start over again.

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You discover God.

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You discover the Holy Spirit.

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You figure out, what do I believe?

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Similar to what you did

right after baptism.

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You, you just kind of, you found God.

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You found your faith.

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You found your beliefs.

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You found your way of life.

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But now, it's 20, 30 years later, and you

have to figure out, what do I believe?

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What is my faith?

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What conviction about this?

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So, it's a, it's a, um, It's a tough stage

and but everybody goes through it and not

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just once we go through it multiple times

And in every one of those categories we

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go through One person can go through all

those categories at different times And it

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is you know, it's an existential crisis.

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Who am I?

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Who is God?

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It could be, you know, crisis

of beliefs and motives.

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What's real?

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What is reality?

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Um, what do I really believe?

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And this is, this is where we dig deeper.

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We have to get more honest and more real

with God and more real with each other.

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And that honesty and reality,

that realness, the authenticity

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oftentimes threatens leaders.

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They're like, no, I'm not

going to talk about that.

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I don't want to talk about that.

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You know, you just, they, and, and,

and of course leaders, they love it

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when people are in the productive stage

because they're producing, they're doing

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a lot, but hit the wall and all of a

sudden they became a pain in the neck.

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You know, it's like your kid

turning 14, all of a sudden that

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cute little nine year old that.

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Thought you were a hero and did everything

you said now is questioning you and

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now is is demanding things and and not

cooperative So that's a tough part, but

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that inward journey Is really important

to maturing to developing to figure out a

318

deeper faith a deeper conviction And when

people go through their inward journey,

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which I think many of us are on Many

of us, uh, are in that inward journey,

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figuring out what we really believe.

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We're not as scared of

some leader kicking us out.

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We're not as scared of, of what is the

church going to say like we were before.

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Now we're more, we're more

like, hey, I want to, I want to

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know what I think about this.

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And this is what I believe.

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And, and we're not

afraid of people anymore.

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We're, we've become more.

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Solid in our faith and in our convictions

and the great thing is when we become

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solid in our own faith and convictions

We're able to love people again.

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We're able to be more loving.

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We're able to be more faithful We're

able to and we begin the outward

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journey where but this this this

journey this phase It's coming.

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We're leading from our soul.

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We're leading from our spirit.

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We're not leading from From this

is what people say, or this is what

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the church says, or it's the issue.

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Isn't the church anymore.

338

The issue is God and the Holy spirit.

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Then the first part of, in the first

phases of spirituality, it's a lot

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to do with the church and the social,

the social community of the church and

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what does the church believe, and that

has a lot to do with our motivation

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and our compliance and our dutifulness

and our response at this stage, we

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tend to not worry about that so much.

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At this stage, it's more

like, what does God want?

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What is the Holy Spirit telling me?

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And there's a tremendous freedom in that.

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That I don't have to please people.

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I just want to please the Lord.

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And there's such freedom in that.

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And we're free because we

learn to walk with God.

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We're free to love freely.

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We're free to be able to do that.

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But the key is getting through that wall.

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And these are some of the

things that, that we need.

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And good for us to remember if, if we're

going through a wall, which we will be,

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and we'll be probably again, but also

helping other people get through the

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wall, the process of overcoming the wall.

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First of all, It is a spiritual process.

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Nobody gets through the wall without God.

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And this is why a lot of people fall

away at the wall, because they're

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not looking for spiritual solutions.

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What we started out talking about,

the well, the well of life, Jesus,

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He's the one that gets us through it.

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And so we must turn to God.

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We must turn to Jesus.

366

We must turn to the Holy Spirit.

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to get through this wall.

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And if we get mad and pull away,

we miss out on the very solution.

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Honesty is important and required.

370

We have to get that level on,

okay, here's what I really think.

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I don't agree with this.

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Or, you know, you know what, honestly, I

never thought we were the only ones saved.

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That was such a stupid teaching.

374

But I didn't want to say anything.

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I didn't want to get in trouble.

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But now I'm not saying that anymore.

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I'm not teaching that I'm not gonna

talk like that or think like that.

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I never believed it We get really honest.

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Sometimes we kind of get mad honest,

but we get honest or or You know,

380

I don't understand why god would do

this or I don't understand why This

381

is happening in the church or that's

happening and just being honest and what

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that does is it invites God's solution.

383

It invites the spirit

deep into our hearts.

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And, you know, we've all read the Psalms

where David just pours his heart out.

385

And sometimes it's angry, sometimes it's

bitterness, sometimes it's vengeance.

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And yet, but because he pours it, he

opens his heart to such a degree that

387

God is able to work in his heart.

388

And sometimes it just takes a radical

honesty, because when we're in the early

389

stages, we don't want to be that honest.

390

Oh, I'm fine.

391

Everything's awesome.

392

Oh, I believe, you know,

the church is wonderful.

393

Leaders are all wonderful.

394

Everything's wonderful.

395

With time, we believe that less,

and we know there are problems, and

396

eventually we gotta face those problems.

397

And we just gotta be honest.

398

I don't think this is good.

399

I think this has been a problem in the

church, or this has been a problem in

400

my life, or I'm struggling with it.

401

I feel like I shouldn't

be struggling with this.

402

That honesty invites God to work on us.

403

Forgiveness.

404

It's, it's really Yeah?

405

I'm sorry, I, I've been Raising my hand,

but I don't know I couldn't see you.

406

Sorry.

407

My hand is so little on the

screen Well, no, you know what?

408

I can't even see you.

409

It only showed me.

410

Oh So go ahead though.

411

Go ahead.

412

Sorry.

413

Um, yeah.

414

No, I think um If if I can just go back a

little bit to the spirituality Yeah, um,

415

I think there's some questions in there

that we need to ask of ourselves about You

416

know, like, even if you guys, like, like,

even recognizing how different it has

417

felt reading Psalm 23 and really absorbing

that really going through that, like, how

418

different that feels from maybe what our

to do list or our, um, uh, whatever we

419

had been doing in our quiet times before,

I think there's something, um, Definitely

420

missing that was definitely missing in my

life that I didn't realize how much God

421

wanted to be part of my quiet times, but

also my every day walking like, I think I

422

had the idea that I would spend this much

time with God in prayer in the morning.

423

And it was always, I do feel like

it was always very sincere and very.

424

Um, like, I feel like I really had

always focused on God, but not really

425

making space for God to answer me or to.

426

Always really be able to pour

out some, um, direction or

427

some comfort or some love.

428

Like I didn't really go into my quiet

times expecting God to say something.

429

And I think I felt more like I had

to figure it all out as I went.

430

And then I would get my little charge and

then I would go do all my work and then

431

I would come back and tell God how I did.

432

As if he didn't know, you know, and

I, I think it's, so I think that

433

spirituality, it's really looking

at how, how do I take God with me?

434

How do I allow God to truly

help me to like, really?

435

Um, treat my wounds even, or, you know,

I think what Robert was saying earlier

436

about asking, what am I afraid of?

437

What's behind this and being like

making space for God to really show us.

438

The answer to those questions, but then I

do think also, I think someone shared that

439

sometimes when we ask those questions,

it does bring up stuff that we don't

440

necessarily, we didn't necessarily expect.

441

Uh, you know, could be even like how

we were treated as a kid or something,

442

you know, but I think even leaning

into that a little bit, trusting that

443

if God is bringing it up, then He will

get me through and I, I think it is

444

more of a soul searching that we open

ourselves up for God to heal us and to

445

help us, um, and not, not really feeling

like we ourselves have to figure it

446

out, but that if we make that space.

447

For God through scriptures through

prayers, like, obviously, these are all

448

truth and good things are journaling.

449

Like, I think it's a way that

God really can minister to us.

450

And then, I guess, honesty,

is it right in there with it?

451

Because you can't do all that

without really being honest.

452

Well, maybe you can, but I

think really having, like,

453

recognizing the power of honesty.

454

You know how if however, we feel

whatever we're thinking to really lean

455

into God and trust that he's going

to help us with what's really there.

456

So, yeah.

457

Yeah, and, and, you know, I appreciate

that because it really is, this is where

458

things really require us to dig deep

spiritually, and, you know, honesty

459

is a difficult thing, it's not easy,

it's really facing the truth of what's

460

happening in my heart, what's in my

mind, and maybe even scary sometimes, you

461

know, if I've got a lot of anger, Yeah.

462

Or I've got bitterness in my heart or

and but but again you look at the psalms

463

and you see David's level of honesty and

being able to submit that to god being

464

able to To work that out with with god

and what it does is it just it brings god

465

at a much deeper level And there has to

be forgiveness closely attached to that.

466

We have to be compassionate with

ourselves and not judgmental.

467

And our culture and church culture,

not just us, all church cultures,

468

are very much towards judgmentalism.

469

Well, you shouldn't because, you know,

this and that, and how dare you, and And

470

the problem is it shuts down honesty.

471

It shuts down authenticity

and and we get stuck in this.

472

I've got to be doing great.

473

I've got to be awesome.

474

I've got to be mature.

475

And we try to fake it to make

it, but it doesn't really work.

476

And that's oftentimes

one of the walls we hit.

477

It's just I can't fake it anymore.

478

I can't pretend anymore.

479

So it's, you know, being spiritual,

being honest, being very gracious

480

and forgiving with ourselves,

acceptance and surrendering.

481

Thanks.

482

And this is usually, you know,

a big step in getting through a

483

wall is just surrendering to God.

484

Okay, God, you let this happen.

485

You made this happen, or you

let it happen, or, you know, it

486

happened and you didn't stop it.

487

So obviously you believe

I can get through this.

488

You know, you believe that.

489

That, um, this will help me.

490

And that acceptance is really important.

491

And what can happen when we

really surrender to God is we

492

can begin to see even the value

in suffering, the value in pain.

493

Jesus was made perfect through suffering.

494

I mean, suffering is one of those

things, nobody wants it, nobody

495

asks for it, everybody avoids

it, we don't want anything to do

496

with it, but it happens, right?

497

We suffer, and, and if we turn to God in

our suffering, we are perfected, we are

498

matured, we are, our faith is purified,

we are actually strengthened through it.

499

Actually it's part of God's grace and

mercy, and, and that is really needed.

500

You wanted to say something, Michelle?

501

Uh, well, I was just thinking how,

um, I think it really is, uh, all of

502

these things, it really is like falling

backwards into the arms of God because.

503

I think there are reasons why

we don't do these things, right?

504

We're afraid that maybe God's not

going to be that real, that God's not

505

really going to help us in these ways.

506

And it kind of reminds

me of when, um, my dad.

507

My dad died in 2020, and I started

having like these, um, light panic

508

attacks, and I had never had that before.

509

And I, you know, we talked to Doug,

who's a doctor or elder, and, you

510

know, he was asking questions about it.

511

But I think I also realized, okay, um.

512

You know, I, I started getting, like,

accumulating fears, like, oh, no,

513

like, if I have panic attacks, we're

not going to be in the ministry.

514

And if we're not, I'm not in the ministry,

Robert's not going to be in the ministry

515

and Robert should be in the ministry.

516

And what will we do?

517

And this is all we've ever done

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

518

like, really, like, starting to.

519

Really worry about a lot of things.

520

And then I thought, well, what if I'm

like this all the time and I can't even

521

function and I can't talk to people.

522

And, you know, I mean, really

like starting to worry about it.

523

And then I just thought, God, whatever

your will is for me, that's what I want.

524

And maybe, maybe I won't be that

helpful for anybody in the future.

525

Maybe this will be my future

and I want to be okay with that.

526

And.

527

Honestly, it almost like went away

after I had that thought and I'm not

528

saying it's always that simple or

anything, but I think that sometimes

529

Satan just scares us and chases us.

530

And we keep running and fighting and

screaming and crying everything else.

531

But I think if we're remembering

God is with us and God knows us

532

and God has a purpose for us.

533

And God has a plan for us.

534

And he, he wants us to come to him and.

535

He will help us.

536

However, he sees fit.

537

Yeah, I think there's a such a Comfort

in Surrendering to him and his will

538

yeah These are all you know keys of

getting through the wall The last one

539

is probably the biggest one is love It

takes a lot of love to get through a wall.

540

Uh, it takes accepting God's love.

541

And for some of us, that in itself

is a huge challenge that we think

542

God is disappointed in us, especially

when we're doubting or we're

543

struggling with anger or bitterness.

544

And we know we shouldn't be, you

know, and this is kind of like, Where,

545

um, I love the story of Elijah under

the broom tree, you know, when he,

546

he was just so deeply discouraged.

547

He was afraid and he

said, I should just die.

548

I'm no better than my ancestors and, and.

549

God doesn't judge him and deal with him.

550

God sends an angel to take care of him

You know and I love to share this story

551

because it's such a beautiful story where

where you know The angel comes to Elijah

552

and says the journey is too much for you I

love that he says that and I mean Elijah's

553

been through so much and he's done so many

courageous things, but clearly he hit that

554

wall where, you know, Jezebel's threat.

555

He just lost it.

556

He lost it.

557

And he took off running and you think,

wait a second, Elijah challenged all the

558

prophets that he'd done so many miracles.

559

Why did he lose it out?

560

He was physically, emotionally,

spiritually exhausted.

561

And what does God do?

562

God loves up on him.

563

He says, Elijah, the journey is too much.

564

I mean, he was discouraged to

the point of despairing of life.

565

And, and what does the angel do?

566

The angel makes him tortillas.

567

And he makes them fresh

tortillas, he gives them water,

568

he feeds them, he takes a nap.

569

I know, I know, it didn't say tortillas,

it says bread, but, you know, Middle

570

Eastern bread is tortillas, basically.

571

And he just loves up on him, and

he goes back and takes another

572

nap, and I think sometimes we don't

realize how much God loves us.

573

And yeah, he, he, even in our difficult,

even in our ugliness, sometimes even

574

in our anger, even in our, and in

fact, it's by being angry where we

575

see how much he loves us or by being

hopeless or being discouraged or being

576

depressed or being that, that we.

577

begin to see how much God loves us.

578

It's easy to think God loves us when

we're out there doing great things and

579

we're baptizing and we're, we're cranking

and doing all these wonderful things.

580

But what about when we're sitting

there depressed and discouraged

581

and broken feeling God's love, then

discovering God's love at that level.

582

Is life changing and that's what it

takes to get through this wall is

583

grabbing a hold of God's love and

the love that people have around us.

584

And it is oftentimes a

very lonely time of life.

585

It can be you feel misunderstood

because you've got doubts and

586

people that are still in the.

587

Discipleship stage or the production

stage look at you as well.

588

You're just rebellious and critical

and you're so unspiritual And you're

589

thinking dude i've been doing what

you do for 25 years That's not it.

590

There's something else going on in my

life And, and that's the problem with

591

judgmentalism in general, is that we

don't really know where each other are at.

592

And, and so it requires lots

of love to get through this.

593

And so what is necessary?

594

Well, you have to really

grab a hold of the Father.

595

You have to get, grab a hold

of God and times with God.

596

You've got to grab a hold of the Son.

597

You've got to focus your eyes on Jesus.

598

You've got to dig deep and spend time with

the Holy Spirit and quietness and solitude

599

You've got to have spiritual friends.

600

You need a community around you

of friends who are Spiritual

601

who will help you through this.

602

They will love you through it They will

hang in there with you And this is why

603

it's really sad when people hit walls

in the church and they have no friends

604

They almost always fall away because

they can't get through it They get stuck

605

at the wall and they lose their faith.

606

They lose their They lose their,

their souls in this, um, we need

607

lots of prayer and scripture.

608

This is, you know, that you're

discovering the power of just reciting

609

Psalm 23 and there's 119 other songs,

you know, I mean, but just that

610

one right there, boom, can changes.

611

I mean, that's transformed my life.

612

I recite that daily for the last.

613

Three or four years and it's

totally changed my life.

614

It's in a great way.

615

I would not like it converted me But it

it's given me strength when I needed it.

616

It's given me inspiration when I

needed it um, and and the time to be

617

In solitude to just be with god And

time to rest This is really important

618

because it's that, that jar, you know,

that jar of river water that's swirling

619

with mud, it settles, the water clears.

620

Sometimes that's part of getting

through the wall, is being able

621

to rest, let ourselves calm down,

let ourselves be still, and, and

622

let things become clear and good.

623

And that's, that, that is just

a vitally important part of it.

624

So these are some of the things

that get us through the wall.

625

And for us to remember when, you know,

somebody we love is also struggling

626

and that what really, you know, we, we,

we move towards a life of love, which

627

is the final stage where, where final

stages of, of spirituality, which they

628

also called sometimes the convergent

stage where everything comes together.

629

The difficulties, the challenge, the pain,

the suffering, the joys, the victories,

630

it all kind of, we begin to see how

this all works as part of our journey.

631

And of course, this is God's gift to us,

to learn to live a life of love, a life of

632

joy, a life of peace, a life of patience,

of kindness and goodness and faithfulness

633

and gentleness and self control.

634

You know, that, that, this,

this is the end game here.

635

To get so we have to get through the

wall sometimes and so and and guess what

636

you know It's really a spiral because

you'll come back around to another wall

637

You know and and but the the good news

is we get better and better at getting

638

through the wall because we learn

these patterns of grabbing a hold of

639

god of holding the gods and changing

hand and Prayer and and gathering

640

friends around us or having somebody

to talk to and we get better at this

641

So I end with this scripture that

we've shared before, what you

642

are is God's gift to you, what

you become is your gift to God.

643

Oh, I'm sorry.

644

Did I say it was a scripture?

645

Sorry.

646

It's a quote.

647

So we'll stop there.

648

Marcel: Thank you, Robert.

649

Our next episode will be part

four titled spiritual discernment.

650

Thanks for listening to deeper

dive by the OC church of Christ.

651

If you want to get connected to us or

want to donate to the program, go to

652

our website, OCChurchofchrist.com or

through social media @TheOCchurch join

653

us next time for part four of the journey.