This will be the first in an ongoing series of conversations with Brown students about life during the coronavirus pandemic. On this episode Dan and Sarah talk with Alina Kulman, a junior, and Babette Thomas, a senior; two friends who are experiencing this crisis in very different ways. They discuss what it’s like quarantining with classmates, studying abroad while the government wants to ban travel, and the weird feeling of worrying that your parents aren’t properly washing their hands.

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BABETTE THOMAS: This moment is I think really forcing all the planners of the world to just be in the present moment. Like, we literally cannot plan. I cannot plan for jobs.

DAN RICHARDS: From the Watson institute at Brown University, this is Trending Globally. I'm Tending Globally's producer and your guest host, Dan Richards.

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Over the last few weeks, we've been talking a lot with our community of experts at Watson and Brown about the coronavirus pandemic. But on this episode, Sarah and I talked with some people who are experiencing this crisis in a very different way. They're part of a group that largely relocated their lives as a result of this pandemic and are navigating something that even by our current standards is pretty new. I'm talking about college students.

We wanted to learn more about life right now as a Brown student, and about how young adults in general are experiencing this crisis, so we talked with two current students. This will be the first in an ongoing series of conversations on the topic that we'll be having with students at Brown. To start, we talked with Alina Coleman, who's a junior, and Babette Thomas, who's a senior. And they have had two wildly different experiences of this pandemic.

Even if you don't know or have any family members in college, we think you'll find this conversation pretty enlightening. We started by talking with Babette. Babette's a senior. She's from Oakland, California and was living in an apartment off-campus in Providence for her senior year. And for a few reasons, she will never forget the week her college life began to change.

BABETTE THOMAS: I don't usually remember dates very well, but I remember this very vividly because it was the week of my birthday. So it was like the week of March 9, we had been alerted that coronavirus was really starting to accelerate in China as well as certain parts of Europe. So basically what happened was that Yale had shut down, Harvard had shut down.

It was kind of like this domino effect of, like, schools saying, OK, time to go home. Time to get out. So it was just that week, it was a really weird, like, waiting game. Like, we were just like, OK, Brown has to shut down at some point. But when is it going to happen? I remember it so vividly. It was Thursday, March 12 when we got that email that said, everything is canceled for the rest of the semester. Time to go home.

So there was just kind of this flurry before they actually let the news out on Thursday, March 12. I'm on the committee that planned spring weekend. And so it was just so clear spring weekend not happening. Underclassmen need to leave campus. No events are happening for a semester. Commencement isn't happening. So yeah.

DAN RICHARDS: And what were the first thoughts that went through your brain when you got that email?

BABETTE THOMAS: Everyone was in shock. Like, I was in a dining hall when I got the news with some underclassmen. And I think everyone was definitely in shock, but we kind of knew that it was inevitable, right? Like, these schools, other schools throughout the Northeast and other Ivy League schools were shutting down.

So it felt inevitable, but it was also just shocking. It was like, wow, this is really happening. And I think I especially felt that shock with underclassmen, where they're like, what the heck is going on? I just got here.

SARAH: Did it make you feel the danger more acutely? Like, did it feel scary, or just like, whoa, surreal?

BABETTE THOMAS: I think for me it felt whoa, surreal. And I think during this whole process, I think there has been a sense of just, like, things feeling very surreal, and still kind of shock and disbelief that this is all happening, I would say.

SARAH: Give us the situation of your living conditions.

BABETTE THOMAS: I live off-campus, so I'm staying in my off-campus house indefinitely for the rest of the semester.

SARAH: Had you already decided to live off campus and stay in Providence? What made you not want to go back home?

BABETTE THOMAS: I think when Brown started alerting students, like, OK, it's time to go back home, understandably, there was a lot of panic. But I think I had to take two seconds and be like, OK, let me think about this for a second. Like, I know the immediate reaction might be to go back home, to go somewhere that feels like safe and familiar.

But I have two parents over the age of 55. So me taking all of my germs that I've gathered here engaging with all other students didn't really make the most sense to me to go back to my house and bring that to my family. And also, this is my last semester. So the rest of my friends are staying. The rest of the people who I live with are staying here. So I'm decided to finish out my senior year here and then just go home when everything is all done.

SARAH: And so far, you're happy with that decision?

BABETTE THOMAS: I am happy with that decision. I miss home every day, like, totally. I think it's really hard to be in these moments of panic, to be experiencing things that we've never experienced before, and to not be with my family. But I also know that I would probably be so sad if all I had I say goodbye to my friends like right now, and possibly not see them for a while.

SARAH: Yeah, that makes sense. Are you in a house with other people?

BABETTE THOMAS: Yes.

SARAH: Are you all staying in your rooms?

BABETTE THOMAS: I am in a house with three other roommates, and we are not, like, self-quarantining in the house. We are just kind of like social distancing as a unit. I think we ultimately decided that if one of us gets sick, we're all getting sick, because we only have one bathroom, right? We only have one kitchen. So I think we kind of ultimately decided that we're a bit in this together.

SARAH: What about you, Alina? You're a bit farther away from campus than Babette. Can you tell us your situation? Just walk us through the process of hearing about your options, and where you were, and what happened.

ALINA COLEMAN: Yeah. So I'm a junior, and I decided to spend my spring semester studying abroad. And I'm studying at the Arava Institute for Environmental Studies, which is on a kibbutz in southern Israel, which is kind of like a socialist community in the south. And my program is really cool. It's Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, and Americans all studying aspects of the environment together.

And it's this really amazing place, and I was so excited to come here, and be here, and travel all around the region. Obviously, those plans have changed. So on March 13, I signed up for notifications from the Jerusalem embassy in case things went wrong. And on March 13, they sent everyone an email saying, prepare to come home right now. Come back to the States right now or stay in Israel indefinitely.

And then we a lot of the Americans kind of started freaking out, because in the email, they said that flights were going to be canceled, and we were kind of making this choice, like, do you want to go home right now or do you want to go home potentially six months from now? Which is an intense choice to make. I don't have any family in Israel.

I mean, I just have my friends who I've made on the program. And I was basically making the choice to rely on them and rely on my program for the next period of time. And then about five days later, I got an email from Brown from the study abroad office saying you have to come home right now.

And I kind of expected that email, because my friends who were studying abroad in Europe and in South America had all gone home in the week before. But then I replied to that email saying, look, in my program, it's in the middle of the desert. It's very isolated. We're not around other people or in a city. There are about 300 people who live here, and then maybe 60 people on my program. No one is coming and going.

If I go home, I'm from New York City. If I go home, that puts me at so much more of a risk than staying here. And after talking to my parents, talking to the people in my program, I kind of decided that staying here was the best option. But just hearing my parents' stories about New York right now makes me really scared for them and really upset about everything that's happening.

But it also makes me more sure that I made the right choice by staying here, just because going home, if I'd gotten sick on the way home or if I'd gotten someone else sick, they're building hospitals in the Javits Center and in Central Park in New York. I mean, there's not enough space for another sick person. And I was really worried about potentially being another burden to that system.

SARAH: That makes a lot of sense. And that was really brave of your family and of you, I think. You're both really far away from your respective homes. How are you dealing with staying in touch with family? How often do you see each other virtually?

BABETTE THOMAS: Yeah I would say kind of during this period of crisis, I've actually come in much closer virtual contact or connection with my parents. I would say usually during school, just because I'm a bit busy, I'd maybe call my folks like once a week or once every couple weeks when I really slip up.

But more recently, I've been calling my parents and/or FaceTiming them every day, if not every other day. So that has been a really nice way to kind of reconnect with them, even if it is under not great circumstances.

SARAH: What about you, Alina?

ALINA COLEMAN: Yeah. So at the beginning of the program, I was probably talking to my parents maybe once a week, just for like a short phone call to check in. I'm an only child, so they're very worried about me at any given moment.

But I would say since things have gotten really intense since the shutdown in New York, I've been talking to them probably every other day or every day, even just for five, 10 minutes just to check in and say hi.

SARAH: And they're doing OK?

ALINA COLEMAN: I mean, not great it's really hard in New York right now. They're really worried. A lot of the people they know have passed away. It's really intense, and I think it's really hard on my mom especially, because she's very active. She loves going to all these meetings, and events, and museums.

And all the things that she loves so deeply about New York are entirely shut down right now, and I think it's really, really hard for her. And so I've been trying to check in, say hi, just do my best from however many thousand of miles away I am right now.

DAN RICHARDS: One thing I've sort of noticed talking with younger people is there's like almost a shift-- now that this is true for everyone. But often when there's some sort of emergency, I think it can be a little more natural for it to feel like parents are a bit more of the worriers for the kids.

And the nature of this disease has kind of scrambled that. I wonder if it's sort of changed just your relationship to thinking about your parents and your family at all.

BABETTE THOMAS: Yeah, I totally relate to that. Like Aline, I'm also an only child. But I feel like I'm calling to yell at my parents every other day to stay inside. My dad is also going grocery shopping. And I'm just like, do you really need to go? Like, you went like a few days ago. It's like the roles have completely shifted or overturned.

Like, this virus has really just, like, completely exploded these family structures, where it's like now I'm really looking after my parents. I feel that very intensely. Especially since I can't physically be with them, I feel like I'm really kind of hovering over them.

SARAH: Alina, what about you? Has it flipped for you, too?

ALINA COLEMAN: I think generally, my parents have been very, very careful, and they're very explicit in telling me all the ways that they've been careful. So my dad, like, sending me a picture of the mask that he's been using going to the grocery store. But both my parents, like, they really value going on a long walk every day, just to have some time outside.

And that does kind of make me a little bit panicky. Like, I called my dad the other day and I could tell he was outside. I could hear cars going by. And my heart kind of sank for a second, like, what are you doing? Go back inside. But at the same time, I totally get it.

I mean, I think if I were in my apartment in New York City right now, I would also really value the limited amount of time that I would get to go out every day. So I get it. And I'm trying to be as empathetic as possible, but I definitely do feel a similar sense of dread and panic sometimes.

SARAH: Have you guys developed any coping mechanisms just to manage how radically everything has changed from your academics to your personal life to this paradigm shift into where you're now worrying about your parents' mortality.

ALINA COLEMAN: Well, I think I'm really lucky in that where I'm living, we're right on the desert. Like, I can just walk outside and go for a hike or a run. And that's been really amazing, because luckily, there are not a lot of people in the desert, so it's very open. And I can go for as long of a walk as I want and not worry about running into someone else.

I've been cooking with my unit mates a lot. We just had Passover on Wednesday. We had a big Seder, and everyone, we split into six groups of 10, because we didn't want to have one group of 60. And I think it was really hard for some people in the program who were really expecting to be home with their families for a Seder since Passover is such a family-oriented holiday.

But I think there was also something really amazing that came out of that, and that we got to have-- in my Seder, we had Americans, Israelis, Palestinians from Gaza, Palestinians from the West Bank, and a Kenyan all, like, singing traditional songs, and talking about freedom, and liberation, and all of the concepts of Passover. And we really couldn't have had that in any other world. So I think there is some magic that comes out of it as well.

DAN RICHARDS: I wonder if you could just tell a little bit more about what the space of your setup is like.

ALINA COLEMAN: So there are about 300 people who live on this kibbutz, like people families, Israelis, Americans who move to Israel. And they live on one side. And then we have our little campus, where about 60 students live.

And they really tried their best to keep us on our campus and them in their houses, just to minimize any sort of contact, any chance that the virus, if it were to get here-- which it thank God hasn't yet-- any chance that it would spread from us to them or from them to us. None of us have been to another town or left the front gates in three weeks.

So we're not really doing social distancing among us. I think maybe there would be some value to it. But I think what we've kind of decided internally is that if no one is leaving and being exposed, then this kind of really, really is such a small chance that it could get to one of us. And we live in dorms.

And so I share a room with one roommate, and then we have a kind of sweet setup with six other girls. And most of the other people in the program live in similar setups.

And so it's really hard to do real social distancing, just because we're all sharing kitchens and food, and it would be really challenging to do that really in practice. But we are doing social distancing from the adults and the families that live here, which I think is an important distinction for them and for us as well.

DAN RICHARDS: Wow. So you are interacting with more people than many people around the world right now. I mean, of course there are plenty of people who still have their jobs. They're are still working their jobs. But among the people who are in some sort of like isolation, you're interacting with a huge group.

ALINA COLEMAN: Yeah. So I see 60 people at least every day--

DAN RICHARDS: Wow.

ALINA COLEMAN: --which is definitely more than my parents do.

SARAH: And your academic courses are continuing, right?

ALINA COLEMAN: Yeah. They're on Zoom, along with everyone else in the world's courses. Just because a lot of the professors who teach on this program, they live in the north. They live in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. They're professors up there, and then they come down to teach for one or two days a week. And that's not possible anymore.

Actually, there's one anthropologist who teaches a course, and she lives on the kibbutz. But she's still not teaching us, just because of these rules. So it's kind of funny. We're on a Zoom call, and she lives approximately a two-minute walk. Like, I know exactly where her house is, but we can't have an in-person meeting anymore.

SARAH: Babette, are you still taking any courses?

BABETTE THOMAS: Yes. So my courses are continuing online to varying degrees. So some professors have decided we are going to keep classes normal. And then some professors have completely upended or changed the way that they teach. I think in my courses-- so I am in modern culture, media, and Africana, so I can speak for the humanities, not really the sciences or STEM here at Brown.

But I've been really impressed by how flexible professors are being in adapting their teaching styles. But I can't say it's necessarily the case for everyone in every discipline, but for the classes that I'm in, my professors are being so flexible, which I think is really great.

SARAH: And I wonder how you are thinking about the future and even the near future. What's it like for you as a generation, if you want to be the spokeswomen of your generation right now?

BABETTE THOMAS: I think this is obviously a super weird time to be entering the career world and adulthood. In one way, I'm kind of grateful for the kind of time and the kind of life I'm leading right now as I kind of transition to adulthood, only because I am such a planner. Like, if I could plan three years out, I would do that.

This moment is, I think, really forcing all the planners of the world to just be in the present moment. Like, we literally cannot plan. I cannot plan for jobs, because I have no idea what jobs are going to look like in three months or so. So I think in that sense-- and the only reason I have a sense of comfort in that also definitely speaks to my privilege and certain stability I have, a stability of housing, a stability of a couple part-time jobs that I'm able to take on.

So in one sense, I'm weirdly grateful. I'm kind of happy to not be thrown to the meat grinder that can be the career world, and the hustle and bustle of it all. But the other side of that is like, yeah, things are incredibly. Like, will there be jobs? I'm a radio producer. So it's like, will there be radio and podcasting jobs come the end of summer? What will that look like?

So I'm both kind of grateful for this time and the possibility for rethinking work that might come out of it, rethinking the ways that we work. But yeah, the uncertainty for someone who does like to plan like myself is a little bit hard.

SARAH: How about you, Alina?

ALINA COLEMAN: Yeah. I'm also a planner, and so I definitely feel exactly what Babette is saying. At the beginning of the semester, I was very stressed out about being abroad and trying to apply for internships at home. It felt really intense and stressful. Like, there was the time difference. I was so preoccupied with everything that was going on in my program, and then I would still at night try to write a resume and a cover letter for another organization.

And it was really hard for me. And then in the past couple weeks, I've gotten notifications from pretty much every place that I applied for that the internship programs are canceled for the summer. So it just feels kind of absurd in that way. Like, I was so stressed and worried about this thing, about getting a job for the summer, getting a prestigious job for the summer.

And now, those prestigious jobs literally don't even exist. It's not even like I got rejected. Just the position doesn't even exist anymore.

SARAH: So is there some liberation or not?

ALINA COLEMAN: Yeah, I think definitely. I think I've really opened myself to the option of trying to stay in Israel for the summer, working for various peace non-profits and organizations, maybe working on a farm, just doing something where I am, and just trying to stay here rather than going home and trying to get a job as soon as I get off the plane, pretty much.

BABETTE THOMAS: I was just going to say kind of along with what Alina is saying, it is kind of forcing us just to stay open to what maybe what can exist outside of these structures and all of these programs. And I think one thing I would say along with that, in all of this chaos, I got into grad school.

But I actually deferred it for a year, which I think is something that I've been thinking about a lot, just thinking about in terms of like, the kind of comfort grad school might have provided in terms of the structure come the fall. But also the fact that we have no idea what learning will look like in the fall. Will there be school in the fall?

So I think, yeah, it's a weird choice that I'm now wondering, like, was that a huge mistake? Am I really going to turn out structure in all this chaos? But I think, yeah, kind of along with Alina, I'm just trying to stay open to the possibilities of what can happen, even in this really weird time.

DAN RICHARDS: I was wondering on the flip side of that, is there anything about-- like, I feel like there's been a lot of discussion and thought put into kind of like what are the shortcomings of doing education over Zoom, or digitally, or remotely. And I'm wondering if there are any parts that are working pretty well, where you're kind of like, oh, maybe that could just keep being like that indefinitely, or there's any pleasant surprises to doing this sort of education this way.

ALINA COLEMAN: I think for me, my professors, a lot of them have transitioned to doing a lot more projects for the rest of the semester rather than focusing on the kind of lecture discussion format, just because having a discussion on Zoom is so hard. And so for example, I'm taking a class on organic farming.

And we would have one lecture and one session in the garden every week. And now, they're spending a lot more time and energy of having us be in the garden working and learning things about permaculture and agriculture with our hands rather than sitting in class.

SARAH: I want to take Dan's question, and pull back, and just ask you if there's been for either of you in general, in the most general sense, in any part of your life, if this situation has revealed a silver lining or an upside? Have you gained anything from-- in addition to having lost a lot?

BABETTE THOMAS: I think for myself, this isn't necessarily inherently positive. But I actually had the realization through being kind of forced to stay at home now that I had way too much on my plate. I had absolutely way too much on my plate. I think seniors, senior year, you usually drop activities.

I took a couple activities on my senior year as well as an undergraduate thesis. And so now that I'm inside and that I am kind of spending most of my time in my home, I'm realizing, wow I maybe would not have finished this semester in one piece, which is a really wild thing to realize.

But there's also something super interesting and kind of refreshing that I'm finding with rest, and just like-- I think so many Brown students are so overloaded, college students in general, like, such overachievers. This is obviously the most restful I've been in all of college, which is just a really interesting experience to have my last semester here.

SARAH: What about you, Alina?

ALINA COLEMAN: I think one advantage is that before all these travel restrictions were imposed, a lot of people on my program would travel on the weekends, or go home, visit families, significant others. And some people just based on their class schedules had three or four-day weekends. They'd be gone a lot of the time.

And I think one silver lining has been that we've all gotten really close, just because we're all here all the time together. But I think I've really enjoyed getting to know and getting really close to people who maybe weren't spending so much time on campus, just because they have a life at home that they want to stay close to.

SARAH: Yeah, the solidarity you almost feel with each other. It's been so interesting to talk to you both and so refreshing. I mean, we all are in our little worlds. And I really haven't had a glimpse of what the lived experience of a college student, including a graduating college student is like.

So I'm really, really grateful that you both were so available, and so open, and willing to share what your experiences have been. It's not only been refreshing because it's been discovery. Really, you've given me a glimpse into your lives. But I'm also feeling weirdly heartened, because you of all people would be entitled to a major freakout right now.

And you both seem to be sort of dealing with a situation with a lot of equanimity, and I commend you for that. And it also helps make me feel better about the world and tomorrow. So thank you for that.

BABETTE THOMAS: That's so nice.

ALINA COLEMAN: I think if you'd called us three weeks ago, it would have looked very different.

BABETTE THOMAS: Yeah, totally.

DAN RICHARDS: Right. Yeah, thank you both so much for talking with us. This was such a different perspective from what I think many people are used to hearing. So yeah. Stay safe, be well, and maybe we'll talk to you again at some point.

BABETTE THOMAS: Thank you guys.

ALINA COLEMAN: Thanks for having us.

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DAN RICHARDS: This episode of Trending Globally was produced by me, Dan Richards, with help from Jackson Cantrell and, yes, from Babette Thomas. Our theme music is by Henry Bloomfield. Additional music by the Blue Dot Sessions. We'll be releasing more episodes focused on the coronavirus pandemic and the world's response to it, as well as episodes focusing on work and research being done it Watson more broadly.

You can catch them all by subscribing to us, Trending Globally, on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven't yet, please leave us a rating and review on iTunes. It really helps others find the show. For more information about this and Watson's other podcasts, go to watson.brown.edu. Thanks for listening, and tune in next week for another episode of Trending Globally.