Taco van der Hoorn burst onto the scene thanks to his incredibly aggressive racing style, and his narrow handlebars. He won a stage at the Giro d'Italia from a breakaway as well as wins at the Renewi Tour and the Brussels classic.

But in 2023, at the Tour of Flanders Taco's life changed. A crash while he pushed to join the breakaway left Taco with a concussion that sidelined him for the next 16 months. He joined Bobby and Jens to share his road to recovery and how he finds tiny advantages to win.

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Even after a concussion for a year,

which is extremely frustrating.

2

And you you don't see the end.

3

A lot of times it still can come back to,

4

to to good again

and you can be completely healthy again.

5

Hello everyone,

and welcome back to the Odd Tandem.

6

You know, cycling

is one heck of a hard sport,

7

but when you have a concussion that lasts

for 16 months, it gets even harder.

8

Our guest today

9

spelled it out for all of us

to understand the importance of patience

10

with a concussion and just taking the time

to get back to where you once were.

11

Jens,our conversation

today was educational and entertaining.

12

What did you think?

13

It was absolutely,

entertaining and educational.

14

What I took away from

this is the happy end of it.

15

I mean, our guest seemed to be in

such a good place, in such a good shape,

16

mentally and physically,

that even after 16 months of struggle

17

and uphill battles and setbacks,

it came true.

18

And he's good.

19

He is the good old Taco.

20

So that's all we wanted.

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So I'm super happy

that we had a chance to talk to him.

22

And he's recently returned to racing,

and he talked with us

23

the night before his race.

24

So please sit back and relax and listen

to our great conversation with Taco van

25

der Hoorn All right, Taco van der Hoorn,

welcome to the Odd Tandem.

26

Hello. Hello.

27

Nice to be here.

28

Yeah, man.

29

Before we start, we normally start

with some quickfire questions, but I

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just got to know this.

31

When I heard your name,

32

Taco, I was like,

that's gotta be a nickname.

33

I mean, you're a Dutch kid

with the name Taco, so please tell us

34

about the origin of your first name.

35

Actually, it's,

36

there is in Holland, there's, famous

there was a famous hockey player

37

and, and,

38

and and his name was Taco

Hajo van den Honert.

39

so it's pretty close to to my name now.

40

My my my my parents just really liked it,

41

and they really liked it, like the name,

so they were.

42

And then they were saying like,

okay, let's go for it.

43

So actually that's,

I'm named after a hockey player.

44

So that's how it started

That's cool, that's cool.

45

I always wondered,

I always wondered, yeah.

46

Because you have the ice cream

and the food and everything like that.

47

This is an in the end, the reason.

48

But in, in some part of Holland,

like in the North Holland,

49

Friesland, there it's more common.

50

There's a little bit

more common name Taco.

51

But in the rest of Holland

it's quite, it's quite unusual also. So

52

yeah.

53

So we're going to get started

with, four quickfire questions, very,

54

very simple questions

just to kind of break

55

the ice and get this interview

going a little bit.

56

I know that you're racing tomorrow,

57

but in your picture, like your,

58

you know, your, your bio pic, you know,

you've got some pretty spiky hair.

59

So first question is when you're

getting out to go, you know, clubbing

60

or get ready for those photos,

do you use hair spray

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or gel for your hair?

62

Oh, no gel at all.

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Sometimes, wax like some wax, but,

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but normally also a lot of times

there's nothing.

65

So, Yeah.

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Just that. Yeah, there's my long hair.

67

Like having a good time. Okay.

68

Okay.

69

If you could choose, would you rather be

a breakaway rider or a sprinter?

70

A breakaway rider?

71

Okay, Gerrie Knetemann

or Joop Zoetemelk?

72

Ooh. Joop Zoetemelk.

73

All right. Old school. Okay.

74

Last one, Graeme Obree or Chris Boardman.

75

Graeme Obree.

76

Hey, Taco, probably a lot

of our listeners and viewers as well.

77

And us, we noticed you have been off

the racing scene for a while.

78

How is it now for you?

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How is your health,

your body, your shape, and how was the way

80

to come back to be able to start racing?

81

Yeah, that's been a really long time.

82

I've been out of,

out of racing for 16 months, 16 months.

83

So, yeah, it has been a really long time.

84

And, Yeah, it's wonderful to be back.

85

It's it's, it's it's it's beautiful too.

86

The most important thing to them, like,

healthy again.

87

And if you, normal, human being,

that's, that's the most important thing.

88

And then afterwards, also

the like the cycling is going good again.

89

So that's also, wonderful thing of.

90

But it has been, it has been a really

long recovery and a really hard recovery.

91

Yeah.

92

So it's and at one point you also think

like this is going to work or not,

93

and you can some doubts,

but in the end everything worked out.

94

And now it's I'm healthy again.

95

That's, that's wonderful.

96

And tell us,

97

tell our viewers and our listeners

what actually occurred.

98

Your crash happened in the 2023

Tour of Flanders, I believe.

99

Talk us through what happened

100

or what

you remember from from that accident.

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Yeah, I, I like, we were trying to

I was trying to get in the breakaway,

102

and then, there was just, I was just

simply stuck at the side of the road,

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and I tried to jump on, on the pavement

104

because I was just, a little bit bruised

and needed to jump on,

105

but I just hit, my front wheel

It it, it pavement and then,

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I hit my head on the floor

and I hit my head,

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like, just before my eye my above my eye,

I had seven

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stitches,

and I was like, a wound until the skull.

109

Yeah, that was a pretty hard crash,

but but everything after that

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and this, from what people have told me,

I don't know anything about it anymore.

111

Like everything is gone.

112

But, that's what they told me.

That's what happened.

113

And then they just put me into the,

ambulance at the hospital,

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and,

the first beats, I just had, like, some,

115

some needs to, to stop the bleeding

directly with, with machine,

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but afterwards,

I just went to the hospital, and I think

117

when I was in the hospital,

maybe three, four hours after the crash

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then it started to,

get a little bit better again.

119

And I from that moment on,

I know some things.

120

And then I was just

the first few days was just really easy

121

and just don't do so much and,

more laying in bed

122

because everything was causing

symptoms like light, sounds,

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busy environment, especially.

124

So then you really start slowly, like,

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yeah,

every day is gonna be a little bit better.

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But then, yeah, in the end,

things took a long,

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long time.

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And I started in the beginning.

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I started quite

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early with, with cycling again

also because of what my doctor would tell.

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And I was I went directly to like the,

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the doctor of the national soccer

team in Holland.

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They have, concussion.

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Yeah.

135

Space

yeah a part of the Yeah, but all they're

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all training, the training, location

where they all train the Dutch, team.

137

They also have a special training center

for for concussions.

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I went there directly,

and I followed those guys, but still.

139

Yeah, I went according to plan, and,

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I started with slowly

141

getting on the bike after after a week,

but still.

142

Yeah, it it

I tried to push it a little bit, but after

143

I think two, three weeks I got a setback

and then it went pretty bad.

144

From then on.

145

So, at one point,

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because I, I had a bad crash,

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with a little blood clot in my brain

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At one point, you realize, okay,

I'm going to have a normal life.

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I will be able to remember

the name of my parents.

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I remember my birthday, my name.

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I can write my own name,

and I can walk and, go grocery shopping.

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At what point after crash,

you realized, okay, I'm.

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I'm good enough

to at least have a normal life for myself.

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And at what point

in the timeline of sixteen months

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did you realise I actually have a chance

to become a bike rider again?

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Yeah.

157

I think,

158

daily life is going

like it's small steps.

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And, but it's actually what I could do.

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I could do after a, a month or so,

I could do most of the things again.

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I could go for, for a small dinner

with my friends,

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or I could do, go to doing groceries or,

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going to a busy environment,

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watching my phone,

working on the computer.

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But before that, I all this was all, like,

really, really a problem.

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But after that, after a month or so,

I could do the things only

167

I would, maybe for an hour of an hour,

and then I have to lay on bed.

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So it was really.

169

You need to. Okay, in the morning,

I can do this.

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And then I have to the afternoon,

I just need to lay in bed for the,

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for the afternoon.

172

And then in the evening

I can do this a little bit.

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So you really have to structurise

everything

174

and to plan out everything, what you can

and what you cannot do,

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especially

that you, have enough rest in between.

176

So that was first the plan.

177

And then at one point, I think after

a few months you start more like trying.

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Also,

the intensity in, going on the bike,

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but that was causing a lot of problems,

directly from, from for me,

180

the biggest problem was if I,

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if I, my heart rate is going up.

182

My blood pressure was rising,

and this was causing a lot of symptoms

183

for for my health.

And that took a long time.

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And I think I think only after

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maybe that was in March this year,

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March, April

that I was finally getting some,

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like some training on the bike

and that I was feeling

188

a little bit of control so I can do

I because that's in the end, you

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with all the things about a concussion,

is also you need time, but

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you also need to build it up at one point.

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So it's

you make sure as you go, for example,

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if you go, about daily life,

you watch TV for five minutes

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and you take some rest

and you hope the next day

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you can watch it for seven minutes,

and then you take some rest,

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and the next day

you can watch it for ten minutes.

196

And that's how you train a little bit.

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Also your head

to get used to all the signals.

198

And that to do for everything

like for, for watching TV

199

but also for going for that, restaurant

or going for other things.

200

You just every time you try to increase it

a little bit,

201

that's causing a little bit of symptoms,

202

but then you take some rest,

if the symptoms, go down,

203

and then hopefully the next day

you can do a little bit more.

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That's how it should go.

205

But with intensity and cycling,

it was a long time.

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It was difficult.

207

It was not really increasing.

208

And I had I could do one day,

do something, take some rest the next day.

209

Sometimes I could do, yeah, only half

of it and get already a lot of symptoms.

210

So it was really, Yeah.

211

Not logical.

212

And, so possible to, to build up.

213

And I think after maybe in this April

that I finally started

214

to feeling a little bit

that I could cycle again.

215

So two more in the year.

216

But one of the reasons and listen,

we want to

217

we're going to get to you as a cyclist

and what you've done.

218

But I just feel that this is very,

very important in this day and age to

219

to have someone with your experience.

220

And it sounds like you have an experience

in this because a you're almost 30 years

221

old, you've had a concussion

and a serious concussion before.

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I think that was back in 2016.

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But there's a lot of kids

coming into this sport

224

that don't have the support that you have,

don't have the experience that you have,

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don't have the patience

that you have dealing with

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something that is very, very serious.

227

What sort of bit of advice

would you give to a younger rider?

228

Say, I don't know, 18 to 24

that experiences is his

229

or her first concussion? Because

230

there's, there's injury, right?

231

Like a broken collarbone,

a broken leg, like there's a set recovery

232

time for something like that,

but with a concussion,

233

it often comes down to people questioning

234

the validity of your your injury.

235

And that can get super frustrating,

I'm sure.

236

So what what would you tell those

young riders that are going through

237

what you've gone through to

to give them a little bit of inspiration,

238

hope or morale and motivation

to to do this

239

the right way?

240

I think it's

241

the most important thing is to do,

242

yeah.

243

You take it,

you take it seriously like it is.

244

It is there.

245

It's it's it's not in your head.

246

Like mentally it is there.

247

It's it's causing symptoms.

248

And it's like it's also safe for a lot of

people is it's it's fake symptoms.

249

It's it's difficult to explain

to other people because if someone didn't

250

have a concussion,

it's really hard to feel like, to.

251

Yeah, to go in your place like, okay,

this is really.

252

But what's, what's going on is really,

it's a vague, injury.

253

So I think it's important that it is

there.

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It's not it's not your fault. It's not.

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It's that, that you still are suffering

with everything and question like this and

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and luckily, like a lot of the concussions

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here and one, two, three, four weeks, and

then everything is back to normal again.

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There are just a few percentage,

like 5% or something that it's causing

259

like long term symptoms.

They call it the post-concussion syndrome.

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I, I get a lot of people from

261

because my story is out there,

the people on Instagram reach out to me

262

like they already had a concussion

for nine months or a year or two years

263

or three years even.

264

Yeah, it's just

265

it is nice in that way that you feel

you're not alone.

266

Who is struggling so long for that

from a concussion like this?

267

But it is also nice.

268

I think also example

for those people that

269

even after a concussion for a year,

which is extremely frustrating and you,

270

you don't see the end and a lot of times

they still can come back

271

to, to to go again

and they can be completely healthy again.

272

And that's something

I think that's something to take with you

273

that still after if you have a concussion

for a whole year or a year,

274

everything can go back

to completely normal again.

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So basically take it serious,

276

be patient about it,

and you cannot rush it

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right.

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No, you cannot force it.

279

It's in the end, it's impossible.

280

It's impossible. You cannot rush it.

281

It's it's

just there and, it's just extremely,

282

it takes you need patience for it.

283

And sometimes it goes faster.

284

Sometimes it goes slower with people,

and it's just how it is.

285

And you need to

286

find a good physiotherapist,

a good doctor that can help you with it.

287

Because for to do it

alone is not possible.

288

You need someone externally

that, can, can help you with it

289

because it's not good

to sit alone with it.

290

And have you used

or do you believe in the use

291

of ketones to help with concussions?

292

Because I've heard a few guys,

293

have used that immediately

294

after their symptoms of their, you know,

hitting their head on the ground.

295

They used ketones.

296

Did you experiment with that at all

or have any,

297

you know, knowledge about using ketones

to treat a concussion?

298

No, I didn't actually, at one point I

299

because there's

if you are out for a one year,

300

you get so many people

with so many advices.

301

Of course

302

everybody has some friends to use this

or some friends did that and some friends

303

who it helped this and,

and it's really just difficult

304

because you always have the feeling

that you you're missing something.

305

You're missing

the next thing that can help you.

306

But I think also at one point

I needed to,

307

yeah, to, to heal myself a little bit,

308

but okay, I'm not going to do everything

because it's impossible.

309

I have a

310

feeling I one of the best doctors

there is on the concussion.

311

And I had a good physiotherapist

and I have the trust in them.

312

And why should I search for things

while they study for it?

313

And they have so much, knowledge about it.

314

So I just have to trust in there, in them.

315

And even when it was not working

for, for a year, I keep trusting them

316

because why do I think I need

I know more about these things.

317

I don't think that's, that's a good

thing, is really because

318

and I think there's also a lot of people

making,

319

it's difficult, but a lot of people also,

320

if people are frustrating and they,

they're looking for everything that maybe

321

can help, there's maybe some supplement

or there's maybe this or maybe this.

322

They can sell you everything at one point

because you're just desperate

323

after a year of not working.

324

And, so there's also no economy

also about that, of course.

325

But in the end, I just try to do my, my,

326

on my, on my

327

doctor or my physiotherapist

and if they didn't think

328

it was really useful, who am I to,

329

to feel that it will be who?

330

And when you applied

331

for a new professional license,

332

was there any extra questions,

any extra test required?

333

I said, yep, tackle your license.

There you go.

334

How was that process?

335

I just had my license, like two months ago

or something, so.

336

Okay.

337

I didn't realize it for a long time,

because it needs.

338

You have to be have to say

that you're healthy and I was not healthy.

339

So, and in the end, I get, I,

340

I get my license

in, Andorra with that where I live

341

and there and I get a letter from,

from there, from the doctor

342

that was saying

like you’re ready to race again.

343

And when I was training full gas and

when I almost didn't have symptoms, what I

344

could train a lot.

345

Then I was healthy again.

346

And then I could apply for my license.

347

I think it's pretty clear that no helmet

348

can completely protect you

from a concussion.

349

But what do you think

our sport can do better

350

to avoid these sort of, you know,

351

head injuries?

352

I think they're already doing pretty

well now

353

with, with the protocol during the race

that they directly started.

354

You hit your head or your your,

the directly the doctor will ask

355

or the team director or something will ask

questions about, okay, where are you?

356

How old are you?

357

Like simple questions.

358

And then they know exactly. Okay.

359

Is this is it like, a normal reaction

or is it something going wrong?

360

And then they will directly

take you out of the race?

361

So I think that's already a big step

because, you cannot make the decision

362

as a rider to,

because also I wanted to also my,

363

my blood was everywhere,

but I just wanted to directly

364

reach my bike and go on the bike

back to the peloton. So.

365

And that's normal as a cyclist

because you're also not

366

really down with concussion.

367

So you have to be someone else

with standing.

368

But that's going to make the decision.

369

No, you can not write anymore.

370

And I think that's going now really well.

371

And about rider safety in general,

about about

372

about dressing in general.

373

Yeah.

374

It's difficult.

375

It's also part of the sport that, it's

there are a lot of crashes,

376

and if you crash, you can hit your head

and then, you can get a concussion.

377

So I don't think it's possible to to.

378

Yeah, it's just part of it.

379

And I think now the protocols are better.

380

So hopefully a lot of the riders

will recover faster.

381

But I also follow directly that plan.

382

And for me it didn't work out.

383

So it's just yeah,

I don't think we can control it now.

384

Is is it your first race tomorrow

after that or you had already races

385

before since you only had the license

for two months, is it.

386

Yeah.

387

I already racing for to my

for more than two months now.

388

I did, I started in Leuven

389

then I did the Tour of Germany and,

and some other races.

390

No, I'm already racing for,

for some time now.

391

So that's, Yeah.

392

How how did your body react after,

393

I mean, just physically your legs

after so, so much time.

394

Oh, because cycling is developing

quite fast, right?

395

If you see how fast they go

and if you out,

396

it's gotta be tough to come back

into the race rhythm. No.

397

So how did you feel

after the first 1 or 2 races?

398

I mean, just your legs, your body,

do you go, Holy smokes.

399

I'm never going to be able

to win against these guys.

400

Actually it goes quite well.

401

I was oh wow. That's good.

402

So no I in my first race

I was a bit of a joke.

403

I don't do run so well but but afterwards

I was on tour of Germany and

404

I was quite surprised.

405

I already did almost some power records.

406

Like after,

after such a short time coming back.

407

So that's gone good.

408

And, I didn't have the chance

to do a really good result now,

409

but I think it was also

because my, my, I had a concussion before,

410

and it took me six months out,

I think I was six months of the bike.

411

And when I come back, I think I just hit

it really hard with training.

412

I trained six weeks like incredible hard,

to reach a good level.

413

And then I think after

I was only training for six weeks then

414

and I did

my third race wasn't being wrong and I,

415

I was on the stage

there, directly from there, from the road.

416

So I was there.

417

That also gave me a lot of confidence.

That's okay.

418

Then I was six, six months without a bike

and I come back really quickly.

419

Okay.

420

Now I was more than a year without a bike.

421

But now also I had a lot of confidence

actually, that I

422

that if you train well and you're,

423

you're healthy and you can push your body

because I think that's really important.

424

Like if you have still an injury

and you cannot train really good.

425

Yeah.

426

Then take a long time, to, to come back.

427

But at one point I was healthy again.

428

I could just wasn't under like five weeks,

like, really, training.

429

And then I, my level was quite similar

to then before the race.

430

So yeah, I'm confident also that I,

431

I hope that I can do a results

in the coming races somewhere and,

432

actually my level is good

enough, but, yeah, for me, as a,

433

as a rider is something difficult

because I also need a little bit of luck,

434

with the breakaway riding

or with with the kind of things.

435

And, yeah, if you have a climber

that's just in good shape

436

and with some good powers,

then he goes to the climb and you see that

437

in good shape.

438

But for me, it's

sometimes a little bit more difficult,

439

to, to show it that, the, the shape.

440

Well, Taco, you know,

now that we've transitioned into back

441

you racing and riding and feeling

good again,

442

I just want to thank you for sharing

all that information about your concussion

443

with us and our listeners, because I think

that's super important for people

444

to to know and to hear that, you know,

it's a serious thing and take it serious.

445

But like I said, we're moving on.

446

So not only was it

your name that really caught my attention

447

back in like 2021,

448

it was your handlebar with like,

you're a pretty darn big guy.

449

And you know what, 187

450

you're,

you're trying to go into the breakaways

451

and your name, Taco van

der Hoorn comes on the screen

452

and then you have these very,

very narrow handlebars.

453

What was your thinking about this

when you first started it?

454

Because to my knowledge,

you were one of one of the first,

455

if not the first, that went that extreme

with your handlebar, with.

456

Yeah, I think I started already

457

like maybe ten years ago or something,

458

with my, with the smaller handlebar.

459

And I put my levers to the inside

and, and, and that was

460

and I just, I think I was still junior,

I just past junior it was around

461

more than ten years ago.

462

And then everybody was,

but this was still the time

463

that also aero suits were

464

or aero helmets were a little bit weird

if you were wearing them.

465

So it's always evolving, of course.

466

But then I was riding with my aero suit

467

and then I had the small handlebar

and the 38 and the levers to the inside.

468

And, and then you get a lot of,

things from people.

469

They say, oh, did you crash?

470

And this is there

because there you get to the inside.

471

And, then

472

people were joking a lot about it,

also about the narrower and the bars.

473

But you see that

also that things change at one point and,

474

sometimes cycling is pretty conservative

and, and,

475

need some time to, to a lot of things

476

leave time to develop.

477

And that's also with,

with the smaller number.

478

And I was also, I think a, I'm not the guy

with, the biggest engine of the peloton.

479

I'm not the guy with the highest

20 minute power or the highest Vo2 max.

480

And and I think I'm always

I'm always fascinating about.

481

Okay, how

I can still beat these guys, these guys.

482

How can we still be a pro cyclist if

I'm not the guy with the biggest engine?

483

And I think I,

I always had a lot of fun about it.

484

So thinking about it.

485

So okay, I, I did in tactics,

I did the material that is in aerodynamics

486

and training wise,

I also started human movement sciences

487

on the university in Amsterdam.

488

So I got a bachelor degree there.

489

So I also have my background

myself, background in, in that case

490

about about training physiology,

about aerodynamics for some biomechanics.

491

So I use that also that information

also in my, in my own cycling career.

492

And I just I wasn't available on my own.

493

Yeah. How you say on guinea pig.

494

Like I was just experimenting on myself

like thinking, okay, this

495

maybe can this can help.

496

And and then I was trying do in the race

or in training and that's how I think,

497

like how I was started and just the way

498

to always become a little bit better.

499

Looking for other ways,

like, for example, Graeme Obree.

500

That's also one way.

501

He's one of my, my, my cycling heroes in

that kind of I do to look for other ways.

502

If you're not the best, the biggest engine

or not the best cyclists to look

503

for other ways to get better.

504

So, you didn't have a mentor or a coach?

505

I said, hey, sit on a bike like this,

and you didn't go to wind tunnel test,

506

just you,

the young Taco, went just by pure

507

logic, if I should do this,

it should help me with this.

508

If I sit like this, it should help me.

509

Was that so?

510

It was your idea

and you tried it with yourself, right?

511

Or somebody else from the outside

told you do this or do this?

512

No, actually I did it.

513

Well, most of the time I still,

514

I am, I'm good friends with Jan-Willem

van Schip, the track rider who is also,

515

with his handlebar

and with his position and stuff.

516

So we already I to him also for a while

when we were still students

517

and we also were discussing it,

at the dinner table.

518

Okay.

519

What can we do to make this better

or make that better?

520

So we also had a lot of discussions,

and we all helped each other

521

in that way to, to game some.

522

Yeah, some games and weights

and to make some progress.

523

So, now I think, of course,

you could you get help, but I think,

524

I did a lot of things myself just trying.

525

And then you say, you're something from,

526

something, something

527

say someone say something about the

the is how you take it in.

528

Someone say something about, food,

and you take it in,

529

and you all grab some points

from from everywhere, everywhere.

530

And then you make it in your own. Makes.

531

Well, you know, now that I know

532

we're talking to a brainiac,

you know, bachelor of whatever.

533

You know, I didn't get to go to college.

534

I didn't get to go to college.

535

What? What is next?

536

I mean, the UCI has banned your the the

537

the hoods from being tilted in too much,

so you can't use that.

538

You know,

you pioneered that like you said as well.

539

Where where else are you looking or

thinking about,

540

what other new things are

the UCI going to be looking at old Taco

541

and saying, damn,

542

this kid just needs to stop messing around

with with the the status quo.

543

Yeah.

544

Let's change. There always some rules.

545

That just.

546

Yeah.

547

Keep you in some into some boundaries

and then you have to look for new things.

548

So that's always, always the.

549

And the thing, of course.

550

And the I think still handlebars

are important thing

551

and I think especially like, I think

552

the most, aerodynamic drag is still

the body.

553

It's not the bike, it's

not the wheels, it's the body.

554

So I think it's still that's

that's the most important thing.

555

Your position on the bike, maybe

the shoe is a really important thing,

556

but especially your position on the bike.

557

And I think the handlebar in that kind of

a is a really important thing.

558

And to and also you can make it narrower

or you can make it longer or on of things.

559

And and I think now if you look at it

it's like cycling already.

560

They always I had a road cycling.

561

So if you look at, the positions

they take, for example on the bike,

562

on the track and you will see

563

in a few years I have always follow

on the, on the, on the road.

564

Also, we did because they’re ahead

and it's faster.

565

So but and now I think

566

yeah.

567

The handlebar I was already with Cube

before my injury.

568

We were trying to develop a new handlebar

569

together and, but then I had my injury,

and then, it do went through, but I also,

570

we had a prototype and everything,

and we tested it, and it was pretty fast.

571

And, I think that's going

572

to be some new things. And,

573

they're going to make

some impact of change.

574

Yeah.

575

When we talk about the track racing,

some of the national teams,

576

they use a bike where the fork is a lot

wider.

577

Right? Yeah.

578

The normal fork is like, really like

within millimeters of the tire.

579

And do you have some wider ones using

that will have a future.

580

And road cycling or is that just wild

581

probably.

582

Yeah I think so. Probably.

583

I think a lot of these things come from

the the first road develop.

584

They will put it more on the time

trial bikes

585

and then afterwards

they come to the, to the road bike and

586

of course you need some it need to be good

and handling and everything.

587

But I don't see I don't see a problem

actually why it wouldn't

588

be there like and that's

also a lot of the things you get.

589

I'm not making it myself, but it's

a lot of the things you always hear like,

590

why people are scared

to do something different

591

because they say,

oh, is it okay with handling?

592

Is it okay to put your narrow handlebars?

593

It's not difficult to ride

with the little bar, but

594

then if you find out that do it,

you just start with them with it.

595

And then after one week you see, okay,

there's nothing I like. It's

596

one week, it's a little bit challenging,

but one week is just feeling normal.

597

And I think it does.

598

So with this kind of things,

like at one point,

599

first it's a little bit like, oh, okay,

maybe this, this looks strange.

600

Maybe we're not going to do it

because it's dangerous

601

or something like that,

and then everybody will ride with it

602

and then yeah,

they cannot do it without it.

603

Also with the disc brakes

and with everything.

604

So we'll go like that.

605

So probably also with with yeah.

606

The wide forks. Yeah.

607

So now now I gotta ask this

because you just kind of mentioned it.

608

In 2022, in the tour de France, in 2022,

609

when you got second on the

the pathway stage to, to Simon Clarke,

610

I don't remember now,

but did you have those narrow handlebars

611

even on, on the pavé, on the cobbles,

on that, on that stage five.

612

Yeah. Always. Yeah yeah yeah yeah

613

yeah.

614

So, yeah. Right.

615

Exactly the same position on the,

I maybe I put my levers a little bit up

616

because otherwise you, you're go off

617

your, your, levers in the front

if you wait too much.

618

But like, it's a little bit

different, but, furthermore,

619

you know, I still think it's like.

620

But then also in that kind of thing that.

621

Yeah, in the Roubaix stage, for example,

you also have the tire pressure

622

which comes along and,

and everything about that, of course.

623

So, yeah,

that's also there's another part of it.

624

But I also like to, to go into, okay,

which tire was the best tire brand.

625

And it's also a very funny

story that you would like it.

626

I went one time with two,

627

was familiar, like, was, with the van,

because I have an old van.

628

I went there and, in November

to just test the tire

629

pressure for it, for next year,

for Roubaix for the for the thing.

630

And then I went

just every, every, sector.

631

I went with some.

632

I put my,

my tires up to four and a half bar.

633

How do you say it in that's like this

or four bar, 3.6 or something like that.

634

And then I would ride

350W over the Arenberg.

635

And then I would just measure my time

and then you will see, okay,

636

this is faster than this.

637

And then you have a quite

a good measurement, okay.

638

Which kind of a difference

I need to use to go as fast

639

as possible

over the, over the over the cobbles.

640

So yeah, this is, really nice things.

641

I always like to just also add

a little bit of a hobby to,

642

to just explore and to see how

I can regain some Watts there.

643

Yeah.

644

Alrighty.

645

And when we talk about tires,

let's go a step further.

646

I believe it was team DSM some years ago.

647

You would have some ultimate tire

adjusting boxes on their bikes.

648

You didn't race with them,

649

but apparently until the very last moment

they thought about it.

650

Have you ever tried one of them?

Where then?

651

With the little button, you can reduce the

pressure or put it higher?

652

For the pavé or for the flat sections.

653

Is that something

you would consider this winter

654

to go back to and test at Roubaix.

655

I think it's in perfect position.

656

Yeah, I go for it. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, exactly.

657

Because it's I think it's really cool.

658

I think it's, it's going to be extremely

beneficial if it works in a proper way.

659

I just went

I just hit my head with the injury.

660

So I, I when this all started

so I, I didn't, do it myself.

661

Now I do this road with myself.

662

But I think all the,

all the elements really interesting

663

and it's going to make a big difference

if it's working well.

664

So yeah, for sure it's a good one.

665

I going to you're going to write it down

666

and they're going to test it

in November directly. Yeah.

667

Please send us pictures.

668

Yeah okay. Well yeah.

669

So 2024 was a huge year

670

for one of your teammates

Biniam Girmay right.

671

You're on the Intermarché warranty team.

672

He crushed the tour de France won stages

won the green jersey.

673

What is he like.

674

What is what is being teammates with him

like is he a is he a good dude?

675

Is he fun to be around?

676

I like him a lot.

677

Winning,

678

is really, he's just a really lovely guy.

679

Is is really calm.

680

Is really, How do you say it?

681

It's it's a really nice, nice guy.

682

He's very down to earth.

683

He does not have a big mouth. Is is.

684

If you see now how big he is as a star

in his home country, it's incredible.

685

in Eritrea, it's it's, it's like

the president is more than the president.

686

It's. He's so famous.

687

But he's so down to earth

himself, and he's, I really like him.

688

And, and I know also the first time

689

when he was coming to the race and to to

I was like into a pole.

690

And I think it's more than three years ago

it was a little bit like,

691

oh, but yeah, again,

I get a really like a kid,

692

but already really,

a just a really nice guy.

693

And I was back then, I was already

so impressed about his capabilities.

694

And also he's riding in the bunch like,

you didn't do

695

a lot of racing also in Europe

and this kind of stuff.

696

But he's like incredibly good in

and handling his bike and also in

697

then going in the

bunch sprints and it's and

698

yeah,

I remember that we were at its first,

699

he was a stagiaire in our team then,

and at one point we were just talking to

700

I didn't learn, so I just,

701

I what's your what's your what you can do

better or your climber or your sprinter.

702

And now I'm a little bit good

in the small hills, but I'm quite fast

703

and we were looking at his legs.

704

And their legs are like

is nothing like a climber leg.

705

It's nothing.

706

and then we say oh, And there was one

sprinter of the teams, Andrea Pasqualon,

707

and he started a little sprint

and it was just it went so fucking fast.

708

It was this incredible,

so much faster than Pasqualon

709

Everybody was really surprised

because he wasn't.

710

If you see him,

you don't expect you so fast.

711

But, yeah, it's it's a big talent

and it's a lovely guy to work with.

712

Is also really thankful always for us,

for the guys who help him in the, in the,

713

in the, in the, in the races.

714

So it's, Yeah, I really like him.

715

I have to admit,

716

I had the chance to meet him a few times

at the tour de France.

717

Interviews.

718

He stops for us,

he gives, smart interviews,

719

he has a smile for everyone and just say

one of the first things I was.

720

Hey, the team did well today.

721

The team were great for me. So.

722

Yeah, it's it's easy to like him

a lot, right?

723

Yeah, it is.

724

And is also like some guys also

725

they know they just say it,

726

but they say it

because it's also good for to to say it.

727

But he also really feels like that

he's really thankful to us in every way.

728

And also when there are no cameras

or something is is there.

729

So it's, no, it's, it's a nice guy.

730

So given the fact that you had to take,

731

you know, 16 months off or a year off,

whatever it was, actually,

732

what would what what does

the end of the season look like for you?

733

What what would really make

this last couple months

734

of of the 2024

season, successful in your eyes?

735

Not not anyone else's, but yours.

736

Actually,

737

the most important thing is

that, healthy.

738

That's actually the most important thing

that I can do.

739

Also just ride my bike

that I can do daily life, that I can just

740

go to a restaurant with friends

without thinking about it,

741

that I have to be careful with something

or I did.

742

I can just ride my my bike for seven hours

in Andorra and enjoy the view

743

and that kind of things,

744

I think are the most important things

that I already achieved now.

745

So, I it's already a success,

I would say.

746

But furthermore, it's.

747

But then you

you I'm also you also you go to racing

748

and and everything you race,

you think this could be better directly.

749

Also, you want to do results

and maybe it's not, yeah.

750

It's really, Yeah.

751

You directly go for it

and directly go want to go for a result.

752

And I, I still hope

I can do a good result somewhere.

753

This, this weeks

and I, that can be close to a victory.

754

And maybe it works.

755

Maybe it doesn't work,

but that's what I'm aiming for.

756

And if I and

757

and I, I'm not going to say,

if I do this, then it will be a success.

758

If I, I just try my best every race

and to try to win the next few races.

759

I do. And, hopefully it works out. Well.

760

Maybe not.

761

And, that I did everything I could,

and then it's also fine.

762

So, yeah, there's.

763

So we can.

764

Bobby and me,

we can still feel the passion in you

765

to fire in you for a sport.

766

I mean, you want to try, you know,

your tire pressure for Paris-Roubaix.

767

May we ask what the contract situation is?

768

For you for 2025?

769

Yeah.

770

As in the moment, I don't have a contract.

771

So, I was, I signed,

a long term contract with Intermarché.

772

And now it's ending, so,

773

and I, I at the moment,

I don't know about my future.

774

I, I think everything going to be fine,

and I will be a pro cyclist, next year.

775

I think that's going to be.

That's going to be okay.

776

But I don't know where.

I don't know in my team.

777

I don't know

if it's going to be somewhere else.

778

So it's it's always exciting.

779

It's always a nervous period because you,

780

Yeah.

781

You want to have some.

782

You're doubting, of course, about.

Okay. What?

783

But it's going to be and it's also,

784

but, I still have to trust that

785

everything going to be all right,

but I hope I have some certainty soon.

786

Yeah,

787

well, Taco, you definitely come off

as being very cerebral.

788

You're a tinkerer.

789

You're experimenting with new things.

790

After you were well enough,

healthy enough, able enough

791

to watch the races on TV.

792

I assume you

you watch a lot of races on TV?

793

Have you learned anything with this last,

794

you know, from the current peloton

795

of this last year

that that really is interesting to you

796

because I've been out of the sport

a long time and watching,

797

you know, this year in particular,

there were some things that stood out.

798

But I'm curious

799

if there's any observations

that you've made, being on the sidelines,

800

the for sidelines over this last period

that that kind of, you know,

801

get your tinkering,

educated brain working in overdrive.

802

Actually I didn't watch so much cycling.

803

I, to be honest, like,

it's also maybe a bit of a,

804

defense mechanism for myself, too.

805

Don't go too much into cycling.

806

So I yeah, I had my head

a little bit on other things.

807

It was more of my, my,

808

my friends and my girlfriend

and my my personal life in general.

809

And I focused a little bit less on cycling

because it's

810

just painful that I couldn't be there.

811

Of course.

812

Yeah.

813

And also so it also, interested me

a little bit less, I think, too,

814

I just focused on a lot of things,

and I think that was good for my for my,

815

for my mental health also.

816

So, so, in that kind of way,

I didn't was too much.

817

I think I'll only for

from the tour de France.

818

I watched everything on,

so I, I can tell you something

819

about that, about superhumans like, what?

820

Got ya.

821

But, but furthermore, I, I yeah,

I didn't do much.

822

Hey, I have an easy question for you,

823

and it's

824

just a nice question so relax a little bit

825

Remember that I had to honor to commit

to hitting your stage when,

826

you were in a break for a long time,

right?

827

Yeah.

828

At one point, you started to hope

I could make it.

829

And at one point you actually know.

830

Oh, I actually, I have it.

831

Just remember you won was, what,

eight seconds or what was it?

832

Yeah,

something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

833

And you kept holding them.

834

You had what, at 20kms to go.

835

You had 25 seconds, something like that.

836

Right? Yeah.

837

I think it's, when I, attacked

838

with 10kms to go

I had around, 40s or something.

839

And then I went up first,

and then the last few kms, It went down

840

quite fast, but, yeah, it was,

it was a nervous situation.

841

Yeah. So.

842

And at one point, you started to think I.

843

It might just work out.

844

And at one point

you thought, yes, I have it.

845

Yeah, I think

846

I already like,

I think I jumped away from, from my,

847

to not a rider, but I was in the break

with with ten guys to go.

848

And, when I rode away, I,

I increased my, my gap

849

until one minute I didn't think, oh,

maybe this kind of, going to work.

850

But then it went down really fast.

851

So then I was a little bit

getting nervous, but in the, in the end,

852

in the, in the last km I, I,

I think I looked around

853

maybe once in the 10kms because, yeah,

it doesn't make sense.

854

You just have to go as hard as you can.

855

So, and but then I looked and then I say,

okay, this is going to be safe.

856

Just don't press

and then it's going to be safe.

857

So I think in the last k,

858

I knew it's going to be

it's kind of going to kinda work out.

859

So then, then the last few hundred meters,

I could just, celebrate.

860

Yeah.

861

There was, it was an amazing feeling

because I also was there.

862

Yeah, I didn't this I was in Jumbo before.

863

I didn't have some good years

in, in the with me cycling team.

864

I was struggling to get the contract.

865

And then in the end,

866

I was staying with Intermarché,

and then everything went really well.

867

And it was, it was,

was it really still my

868

before my biggest victory

and just a special moment.

869

Yeah.

870

My last question,

because we're coming towards

871

the end of time, is,

I had a friend who was a neurologist,

872

and he was super passionate about cycling,

like, rode his bike all the time.

873

I think he had like ten bikes

and he had a his third concussion.

874

He called it the third concussion rule.

875

And he had that and he just walked away.

876

He had to walk away

from riding his bike outside.

877

And then he didn't really enjoy it

riding inside as well.

878

But that was a major thing for him.

879

We all hope and pray that that,

880

you know, you get a contract

and you're again in the European peloton.

881

But if if you did

have to walk away from the sport,

882

I mean, you have an education.

883

You're a smart guy.

884

What other things outside of cycling

would you want to pursue

885

if if for some reason you

you didn't get a contract

886

or you had to stop due to another,

another, concussion?

887

What what what what do you want

to do the rest of your life?

888

I've been thinking about it.

889

I was forced to think about it a lot

because I also at one point in,

890

in, in the winter

I was thinking, okay, maybe

891

I'm never going to come back to cycling

because it was.

892

Yeah, there was no light

in the end of the tunnel.

893

And I have I think about it

also to step away from cycling,

894

need to go and do something

completely, completely different.

895

But in the end, I think I,

I will stay in the sport and

896

I think I will,

897

I think I would like it

to, to work as a trainer or as,

898

with my education,

I think my, my knowledge now

899

and my experience as a rider,

I think it's we'll see it quite well.

900

And, I think it would be really nice to,

901

to help young guys, to help other guys

to, to to develop.

902

I also work as a trainer.

903

Last year, a little bit more than some of

the other things I, I focus more on.

904

And I really like to, to train

some young guys to, to,

905

to help them achieve their goals

and to, to help them and,

906

and also I notice it

also in the team that I'm now writing now,

907

I really like to write

for these young guys and to, to,

908

to help them a little bit

in, in the water cycling and

909

so I think I want to do that

and, maybe go back to studying.

910

I also was thinking about that

maybe focus a little bit more in

911

mastering sport psychology.

912

Focus a little bit on that part

also because I kind of think

913

it can be really helpful

if are, training also.

914

That's more

the physiology and the psychology.

915

And then with my, my, my experience,

I think that's then

916

I will find my way in, in some kind of,

training or, physiology in cycling.

917

So I think, that's or in another sport

918

because I would love to see how it goes in

rowing or in athletics.

919

And I think it's fascinating,

how it will be there.

920

And, but I think training will be

921

the most my thing

to really work with, young athletes.

922

Yeah.

923

Taco, Thanks

a million for being our guest tonight.

924

It was fantastic to see you.

925

And I'm sure I can talk.

926

Also, in the name of all

our viewers and listeners.

927

We were all so happy to see you back and,

928

you know, back racing

and being back to be your normal self.

929

Right.

930

So thank you

one more time for being our guest.

931

We want to hear much more of your time

because we need some rest.

932

You're racing very soon right?

933

So thank you, thank you

thank you, thank you

934

and best of luck for the coming races.

935

Perfect.

936

Thank you, thank you.

937

Jens thank you Bobby.

938

Well, that's everything for this week.

939

Now please remember to follow us at Odd

Tandem on TikTok,

940

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook

and wherever you get your podcasts.

941

Thanks to Taco for joining the podcast.

942

And also remember,

if you want to see the video version

943

of this podcast,

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

944

Youtube.com slash at Odd Tandem.

945

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast

946

and your name into titles,

just head to our Patreon

947

where you can sign up for $5 a month

948

and help us to keep this podcast going.

949

That's patreon.com/oddtandem.

950

Thanks to our Patreon members

Scott, Steven Kimbrough, Marie

951

Teixeira, Jeff Kralik, Brian Colon,

Chris Merritt,

952

Tim Farriss, Jim, David Swartwout,

Bill Babcock, Nancy Ness,

953

Michael Terblanche, Jim Burns,

954

Swim school Bob, Steve, Scott Nabors,

955

Joseph and Philip Shama who’ve done

just that.

956

And remember, if you want your question

in our next mailbag episode,

957

make sure to keep sending us your

questions to Ooddtandem@shockedgiraffe.com

958

or any of our oddtandem

social media channels

959

And please keep sharing the

960

podcast and keep leaving your reviews

wherever you're listening.

961

It really helps us to build our audience.