On the latest episode, I'm joined by Sande Hart, a mother, grandmother and founder of The Global Woman's Village woman's organization, formally known as S.A.R.A.H. (The Spiritual and Religious Alliance for Hope) now in its 23rd year. She is also the Author of The Liminal Odyssey, The Alchemical Power of The Spaces In-Between, (also a Nautilus Book Awardee)

Sande is actively engaged in leadership in the peace, compassion, community building, and women’s re- and in-powerment sectors. Her most recent work is in service to the role of women in this evolutionary impulse we are in during these transitional times. She served on the Women's Task Force for The Parliament of The World's Religions and developed and produced the first-ever Women's Village at the 2023 international conference. She founded and served as Director for the international organization The Charter For Compassion’s Women and Girls sector as creator and director of the 9th sector of the international organization focused on compassion. And she is the Founder of Compassionate California, which recently became established into law by the governor’s office as the first Compassionate State in the world.

During our conversation, we explore:

• Sande's multi-decade journey toward recognizing the presence of the Sacred Feminine in her life, including the flickers of Her presence along the way
• How Sande came to fully recognize Her through her work shepherding the Women's Village at the Parliament of the World's Religions.
• The evolution of her non-profit organization S.A.R.A.H., including her more recent focus on "women who future," and what this language means to her
• The powerful message that she received while visiting Auschwitz, which brought us both to tears during the culmination of this inspiring episode

Notes related to this episode:

• You can learn more about the Global Woman's Village at https://www.sarah4hope.org/
• You can also learn more about Sande and her book at her website: https://www.sandehart.com/
• We discussed the work of Carol Lee Flinders during this episode, including her books "Enduring Grace" and "At the Root of This Longing."
• Sande mentioned the song by George Harrison "My Sweet Lord"
• I also mentioned the beautiful Adrienne Rich Poem, poem 13 in her collection of 21 love poems: https://allpoetry.com/poem/10381457-Twenty-One-Love-Poems-XIII-by-Adrienne-Rich
• We also discussed the Parliament of the World's Religions
• Finally, Sande mentioned the following quote by Henry David Thoreau: “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.”

And here are a few more details about this show and my work:

• If you’d like to know whose ancestral tribal lands you currently reside on, you can look up your address here: https://native-land.ca/
• You can also visit the Coalition of Natives and Allies for more helpful educational resources about Indigenous rights and history.
• Please – if you love this podcast and/or have read my book, please consider leaving me a review, and thank you for supporting my work!
• You can also access the audio version of this episode here, or wherever you access your podcasts: https://home-to-her.captivate.fm/
• For more Sacred Feminine goodness and to stay up to date on all episodes, please follow me on Instagram: @hometoher. To dive into conversation about the Sacred Feminine, join the Facebook group, also @hometoher.
• And to read about the Sacred Feminine, check out my award-winning book Home to Her: Walking the Transformative Path of the Sacred Feminine (Womancraft Publishing), available on Audible and wherever you buy your books!. If you've read it, your reviews on Goodreads and Amazon are greatly appreciated!
• Visit www.hometoher.com to learn more about your host, download a free meditation and sign up for my newsletter to stay up to date on all the latest episodes.

Liz Childs Kelly: Hello, and welcome

to Home to Her, the podcast that's

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dedicated to reclaiming the lost and

stolen wisdom of the sacred feminine.

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I'm your host, Liz Kelley, and on

each episode, we explore her stories

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and myths, her spiritual principles,

and most importantly, what this

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wisdom has to offer us right now.

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Thanks for being here.

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Let's get started.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Hey, everybody.

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And welcome to the show.

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This is Liz joining you as usual

from central Virginia and the

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unceded lands of the Monacan nation.

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And I am so glad that you

are here with me again today.

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And as always, if you want to know

whose native lands you are residing on,

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please check out the map at native land.

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ca.

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It's a map of the entire

world pretty much.

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And it will tell you.

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Who was there before you.

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So really good information for you

to have and I'll put that in the

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show notes so that you've got it.

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And if you are interested in learning

more about The sacred feminine there's

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so many ways that you can do that There

have been so many guests that have been

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on this show in the last five years Who've

given wonderful perspectives on that

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if you want to learn from me in other

ways, too You can check out home to her.

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com.

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You will definitely find all of the

old podcast episodes there you will

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find some articles and things that

I've written and You can find out more

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information about my book there, Home

to Her, Walking the Transformative

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Path of the Sacred Feminine, which is

published by WomanCraft Publishing.

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It's available wherever you buy your

books, and it's also available on

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Audible, so if you like to listen

to me, you can listen to me read to

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you the greatest story that maybe

you've never been told, which is hers.

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And yeah, follow me on social

if you want to keep up.

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I've been a little sporadic

lately, but it's a home to

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her at Facebook and Instagram.

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And then if you want to give me any

feedback, ideas, suggestions, anything

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that's coming up for you, social is also

a really, really good way to do that.

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And I love to hear from you.

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I love to hear what is present for you

from these episodes and things that

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get sparked and ideas that you have.

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So please always feel free to reach out.

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And with that, let's get on with the show.

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So I am so honored to call my guest

today my friend, and also just a

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wonderful, wonderful inspiration to me.

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We first had the opportunity to

meet in person at the parliament

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of the world's religions in

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Although I had heard of

her, she was in my circle.

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You know, I knew, I knew about her.

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She was in my sphere for

years before we connected.

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But she was stewarding

the Women's Village there.

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I'll say more about that in a second.

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And I was just so moved by her

passion and her presence and all

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the ways that she's been showing

up in the world so powerfully.

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Over the last couple of decades.

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And yeah, I've kind of been in that

space of awe ever since so I feel like

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this conversation is long overdue.

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I'm so excited.

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We're having it and I can't

wait for you to hear from her.

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So let me go ahead and tell you about her.

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Sande Hart is a mother, grandmother, and

the founder of the global woman's village.

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Women's organization formerly known

as Sarah stood, which stands for the

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spiritual and religious alliance for

hope, which is now in its 23rd year.

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She is the author of the liminal odyssey,

the alchemical power of the spaces

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in between a, I can't think of a more

sacred feminine inspired title than that.

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Also a Nautilus book award winner, and

she is actively engaged in leadership in

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the peace, compassion, community building

and women's re and empowerment sectors.

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Thank you Her most recent work is

in service to the role of women in

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this evolutionary impulse we are

in during these transitional times.

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CND served on the Women's Task Force

for the Parliament of the World's

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Religions and developed and produced

the first ever Women's Village at

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the 2023 International Conference.

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She founded and served as director

for the international organization,

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the charter for compassion's women and

girls sector as creator and director of

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the ninth sector of the international

organization focused on compassion.

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And she's also the founder of

compassionate California, which

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recently became established into law

by the governor's office as the first

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compassionate state in the world.

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And Sande, I forgot to ask you before we

hopped on where you're joining us from,

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but I believe you're joining us from

your home in Santa Barbara, California.

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Do I have that right?

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Sande Hart: I'm actually on the the

unceded territory of the Louisiana

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Band of Mission Indians in Southern

California, which is a San Diego area.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Excellent.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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Like I said, this conversation is

long overdue and I'm so excited.

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We're having it.

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Sande Hart: I am too.

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Thank you so much for having me Liz.

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And aren't we lucky that

we're on one another?

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Aren't we lucky that we can meet one

another at this great Sort of place.

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And I just love, I love your program.

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Thank you for having me.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

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Oh, it's my honor.

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It's totally my honor.

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I, yes, I was telling Sande before

we hopped on, like, I think this is

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going to be one of those conversations

where the challenge will be like,

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oh, we've got so much to talk about.

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There's no way we're going to fit

it all in, but we're just going

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to flow and see where it goes.

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But you know, if you guys have been

listening for a while, you know, this,

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I always love to start with my guests

and hearing about their spiritual

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background and those experiences

that were formative and that.

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Guided them perhaps in supportive

ways, but also the ones that maybe,

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you know, We're, we're nurturing

in unsupportive ways, which then

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pointed them where they needed to go.

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So Sande, if that's okay with

you, I would love to start there.

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Sande Hart: Oh, and I love that you do

this because that's my favorite place

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to meet people at the root of who they

are and how they show up in the world.

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And what informs them and their, their,

their religion or their spirituality.

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So thank you for posing this question.

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So my roots I was born into an already.

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established family in the seaside town

in Southern California, which was the

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occupied territory of the Tongva in

a little town called Palos Verdes.

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I was one of four Jewish kids in

my entire elementary school and

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not much more in my middle school.

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So I was always, I always

felt like I was the other.

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I never felt like I fit in.

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Or for that matter, I never felt that

I was really made for this world.

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Yet I had this love affair with the ocean

who I lovingly referred to as grandmother.

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So while I didn't know

it, I was literally.

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Or at the time I should

say I was literally being

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drenched in her spirituality.

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I was gifted by her consistent

presence in my life.

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I knew that she was teeming with life and

I could talk to her and play on her and in

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her and I was gifted these amazing lessons

and treasures of sand dollars and endless

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days away from my otherwise existence.

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And she was for me.

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The definition of unconditional love and

acceptance that I wasn't getting at home.

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Both of my parents are, were first

generation Americans born in the

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early 1920s whose families escaped

Nazi Germany or Lithuania, Latvia,

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Eastern Europe, Eastern Europe.

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And and because their lives

were threatened, of course, and

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And that's so as Jews, our, you

know, fear is woven into our DNA.

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It's, and it's, My understanding,

it's always been our inherited

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mission to keep the traditions

and the religion of Judaism alive.

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So, in my household, in my life,

generational trauma is a fact.

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And while not everybody would respond that

way, what we know about gene expression

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and intergenerational behavior patterns,

Everyone is impacted in different ways,

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and those behavior patterns impacted me.

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In my household, there was no

consideration of anything outside the

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rigidity of Judaism, which was still

even very limited for me at that time.

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Anything other than that was unfathomable.

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So there was no, there was

little room for spirituality.

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It was as if if you relax into

spirituality, Then down goes your guard.

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And my folks were also not expansive

thinkers, I say, and to their credit,

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it was their, they were informed by

their very difficult upbringings.

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Yet, I thought every Jew thought this way.

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I thought this was the totality of Judaism

in every Jewish home, here at least.

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And that spirituality was as foreign

a word to the tongue as was Jesus.

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So, I now know how wrong I was.

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And that was just again based

on my restrictive thinking.

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By this upbringing I had yet I joke

as I do in my book that I must have

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come with spiritual potential stamped

on my forehead, you know, because I've

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come with this spark that that would

flicker enough to keep me curious.

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And then later would rage into a wildfire

later in my life and that happened

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when as a young mom, my kids were

in middle school and I was an active

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volunteer at our synagogue because I

wanted them to have, you know, a formal

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upbringing, which I really didn't have.

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Other than again that limited viewpoint.

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And then there I grew increasingly

interested in Jewish mysticism

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and spirituality of women.

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And I, and even the word mysticism, I

don't even think I, that was on my radar

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at the time, but I wasn't finding anything

about the faith I knew so little about

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because really there was no program

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So, I basically decided to create such

a thing and I proposed, I, I wrote up

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a proposal for our synagogue board of

directors to allow me to lead a Jewish

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women's spiritual group to explore who

we were As spiritual beings is the women

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of Judaism, and I wanted that to come

from everyone's own personal lives and

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lived experiences in their stories.

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I, at this point, had learned that

not everybody was raised like I was

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so I really wanted to know what was

going on in their home and in their

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life and in their heart, and how

they live that out in the world.

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So I wrote the proposal

called it Miriam circle.

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Yeah, Moses's sister who co led

the Hebrews through the desert

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with the tambourine and I joke in

my book Directions to the Well.

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And the week before the board

meeting was to happen and I was to

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present my proposal, 9 11 happened.

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And Liz, this is where I have to

stop and say that while in retrospect

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that flicker and I can point to all

those flicker moments Was her, was

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the divine feminine showing up in me,

protecting me, blowing in my cells.

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She was in every lesson.

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She was in every joy.

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She got me through delivering my babies.

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She was on the floor with me

during the dark nights of the soul.

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And she was the, the strength that

I had to get up off the floor.

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And, but it wasn't until the morning of 9

11 that I first actually heard her voice.

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Still, I didn't know it was

officially her until later in life.

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As a matter of fact, even in my book,

which I wrote a few years ago, I think

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I made the comment that I don't know who

was whispering in my ear, but I said yes.

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And what I said yes to was gather women.

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That's what I heard.

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That was the whisper.

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It was more like a blaring horn.

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Gather women.

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And, and the next thing I know, I have

a living room full of women of diverse

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faith traditions Transcribed Discussing

women's spirituality from our different

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faith perspectives and lived experiences

and and later we grew to a global level.

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But while Miriam's circle didn't fit

the bill, because of course that would

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have been for women's spirituality, It

made sense to give her the name Sarah,

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the mother of all nations, spiritual

and religious alliance for hope.

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And for the next 20 years,

we hosted monthly meetings.

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We you know, our conversations were

all over the board from month to month.

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But what was always anchored

in our spiritual approaches,

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solutions, lots and lots of stories.

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Lots of food, laughter, some

tears, difficult conversations.

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But we always had a safety net in

our protocol for care and caregiving,

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which lives on our website.

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And we were the mothers of the community.

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We were invited.

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By universities and all different

faith, you know, places of worship

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to sit on panels and to come and

talk and we galvanize thousands of

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people out to hundreds of service

projects and our annual interfaith

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weekend of community service, which.

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We referred to as covert community

building, you know, in our faith

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reconciliation, by getting people to

work side by side with one another

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to get to know who they really were.

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Not unlike learning who they are,

spiritual as spiritual beings,

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what do they care for, you

know, that's where we can meet.

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So we did that.

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And then again, as we started adding

more programming and then comes

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zoom and even, and COVID really

catalyzed us to be the world's

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largest And longest running grassroots

interfaith women's organization.

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So we were literally living out what

it looks like when women of faith show

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up or women who are conforming to their

higher and their deepest value systems.

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And like you and why you start this

show this way, I've always been

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extremely fascinated what makes people

tick and where they come from, what's

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the root of their longing, you know?

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Yeah.

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So, and I want that for every woman.

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I want us all to meet there.

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I want us all to show up there

and in that way we get to be

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the creatrix of our own life.

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And, and listen, listen with reverence.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah,

I love that language.

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You the root of the root of your longing.

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Like that's, do you, do you know

that book that at the root of

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this longing, Carol Lee Flinders?

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Yeah, that was an early book I read.

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It's, and it's funny that you I

wrote down the word mysticism when

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you were talking, and I wonder if

there are those of us, cause that

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word called to me in my twenties.

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Actually, I read Carol.

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Lee Flinder's book, Enduring Grace, which

was a portraits of seven different women,

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Christian mystics, and like the word,

you know, and it didn't you know, for me,

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I was just kind of searching for like,

where, where, where's the thing that I

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can relate to in these faith traditions,

you know, because I'm not seeing me in

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anything, but I'm not quite ready to give

up the tradition that I grew up with.

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But there was something

about that word mystic.

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And like the mysticism that I was

like, oh, I don't know what that

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is, but I want to go towards that.

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And as you were talking, I was

like, oh, I think this is our,

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you know, ancestral or past life

remembrance of us having these roles.

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There's some kind of knowing of

like, oh, this is a thing that.

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Was important to me or

my lineage in some way.

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And it's like that spark that brings

it back into our, our attention.

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And yeah.

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And, and then to see how it's

going to play out in this

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lifetime is so, is so fascinating.

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And it, what I love about your

background, Sande, is that

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you're holding that kind of.

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It seems to me that you're holding

that kind of mystic energy, but also

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really channeling it into action.

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Because I think sometimes we think

about mysticism, it's like a,

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we're off in the cave or we're in

our isolated spiritual community.

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And I love how you've moved

it out and into the world.

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I think it's really beautiful.

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Sande Hart: Well, thank you.

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And I, I accept that as my responsibility.

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And I, I do kind of lie right at the,

at the intersection of being able to

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hold that vision and have these sort

of conversations, but also boots on the

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ground at the community level and bringing

that down to a digestible level for.

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for everyone.

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You know, this is

something Home to Her does.

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Your book does so beautifully.

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You have such, there's such honesty

and elegance that makes everything

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in your book, and I mean everything,

you should see your pages.

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They're all like, there's lines everywhere

and stars and arrows and circles.

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Yes.

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You know, and all over the pages

because you speak with such,

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like I said, honesty and clarity.

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And it's digestible and savory.

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And that's what we get to do.

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I feel like you do the same for the world.

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Like you bring, you bring things

down to such a digestible way.

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And we all have to show

up with what we have.

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And my skill is community.

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Yeah.

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You know, that's my lane.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

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Well, and I'm curious too, because you

alluded to it, so you heard the voice,

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gather the women, gather women when did

you figure out, like, hey, there's this

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thing that I call the sacred feminine,

but you can call it whatever you want,

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you know, but it's like, the her, when

did, when did that kind of, Click for you.

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And how did that happen?

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Sande Hart: Well, I can, in retrospect,

go back and see all the flickers and go,

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okay, she was there, you know, she was

in every single story in my book, right?

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Making every adventure possible and also

protecting me along the way and bringing

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me these people into my lives that

would teach me lessons and be my guides.

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And, and as well as a plethora

and platoons of angels that had

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sense of humors and caliprods.

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But where did I first come to really know?

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I have to say it was at the parliament.

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This is just last year.

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Now I've been on this

journey for 22 years.

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Well actually my whole life.

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I honestly, I think I was

born to take this odyssey.

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And to answer these questions

and to fill in the gaps.

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That's why the word liminal

was so important to me.

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It's like, let's slow down to

the speed and not wonder what's

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happening in these gaps, but at the

parliament, it all just came together.

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And I have to say that building the

village, it wasn't the end result.

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That was the proof of my concept of what

was possible for what a space looked like

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that was designed for women by women.

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It was the year of planning

that we took to develop it.

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And we always said that while there

were seven of us or eight of us on

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the committee, there was a ninth.

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And when something didn't want

to happen, or when something

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flowed into us, It was her.

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She was our accountability

partner the whole way.

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And something that was always said by

particularly one of our members, but

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then we all adopted it is at every turn.

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We are so protected.

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She is there.

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We are so protective.

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So she was starting to flutter into

my life in this more condensed way.

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But then the, the, the

women's villages built.

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Everything's up, the pictures

are up, the waterfall is flowing,

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and by the way, do you Yes, and

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Liz Childs Kelly: I want to, yeah,

can I pause you for a second?

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Yeah.

336

Because I want to just, can you help set

the stage for people who are like, what

337

is this Parliament of World Religions?

338

Oh.

339

What are you talking about?

340

Like, just, like, I know we were there,

and I'm like, I can see it, but like,

341

let's, let's I mean, there's like

thousands of people that come from all

342

over the world to this thing, right?

343

Like, how many, there was

something like eight or nine

344

thousand people there, right?

345

Sande Hart: Yeah, depending on the

parliament, anywhere from 7 to 10, 000

346

people come from 70 or 80 different

countries representing their faith

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traditions or walk in the world or,

or, or, you know, spiritually ethical

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or you know, ways of being in the

world, but our seekers or educators

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or clergy are environmentalists, you

know, are working on just most any

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social impact issue on the planet.

351

Yeah.

352

will come to, you know, participate in 400

different workshops or, or discussions.

353

There's there's a huge exhibit hall

that not only has a marketplace, but

354

also you'll find expressions of religion

and spirituality through ritual and

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ceremony that you can observe right

there in the, you know, in the otherwise

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sterile halls of, you know, The of

a convention center, which is, of

357

course, blown out to its full capacity.

358

There are there's food.

359

The Sikh community comes and does a

langar every year, which is, or every

360

parliament, which is where they feed

every one of those thousands of people.

361

This must be, you ate there, huh?

362

I could have eaten there every single

day if I could have gotten away as much,

363

but the most delicious, you know meal

that they served thousands and thousands

364

of people every single day for lunch.

365

So that's been happening

for many, many parliaments.

366

So there's just, and then there's

plenaries and assemblies and, and, Having

367

been, this has been my fifth or sixth

parliament, and the third parliament

368

I was on the Women's Task Force for,

I said, you know what, it's really

369

time that there be a dedicated space.

370

Designed for and by women

that is for everyone.

371

Really.

372

I mean, we want everyone to come,

but let's look at what happens when

373

we, you know, provide a safe space.

374

And this was all inspired because if

you've ever been to a big conference

375

before, sometimes, you know, that the

most juiciest and meaningful connections

376

are when you're just sitting down to take

a load off on a bench that you can find.

377

To give your feet a rest and, you

know, just breathe and process

378

everything that's going on.

379

And so the first thing I

wanted were velvet benches.

380

And then, of course, we wanted

to do a water ceremony, so we

381

had to have a water fountain.

382

And and I found one at Lowe's

in the shape of a vagina.

383

I was so excited.

384

We had a red tent room where we had props.

385

Constantly programming

in there the whole week.

386

And by the way, this parliament

lasts a week, and every few years,

387

three to four years, it moves from

city to city, country to country.

388

My first parliament was in Australia,

and so it's bopped around the world.

389

It's possible the next one will

be in Scotland, but it really, but

390

it takes millions and millions of

dollars, and entire city initiatives.

391

To bring a parliament to

your state or your city.

392

So that is the parliament and that was.

393

We know what we had the privilege of

394

you know, given permission to build in

395

Liz Childs Kelly: and I

didn't mean to interrupt you.

396

So you were talking about like being

in the women's village and like,

397

that's sort of like where you knew her.

398

So I, yeah, apologies for that.

399

But yeah, I'd love to hear that too.

400

Yeah,

401

Sande Hart: no apologies.

402

As a matter of fact, thank you.

403

Because I skipped right over that.

404

So the, you know, we knew we wanted, you

know, to have these things happen, right?

405

We had crown making session, we station,

you know, where women everywhere were

406

walking around the parliament with

these gorgeous crowns that they made

407

with, you know, a glue stick and all

these flowers and different ribbons

408

and things that we had provided.

409

We had a mother tree where people

could write their prayers on

410

her leaves and stick them up.

411

Where there were just branches or acorns.

412

This is a last minute thing.

413

And I rushed from Amazon these

little acorn shaped papers where you

414

can write your wishes that we want

to flourish into 10, 000 for us.

415

Right?

416

And then bark that you can write.

417

The name of your ancestors on

and affix it to the, her trunk.

418

And so we had, we had

just circles of chairs.

419

So we, you know, for spontaneous circles

to happen, we had roses everywhere.

420

And our whole container was held by

women's woven voices, tapestries.

421

That were brought to us by Women's

Woven Voices, the organization, and

422

these are little one square strips of

fabric that were crafted by thousands

423

of women from all over the world that

made 1, 700 square feet of tapestry

424

that we, that we, that held our space.

425

We were literally held in women's voices.

426

So, we've got all of these fixtures,

all of these material things.

427

Holding the space and providing space

for women as well as the candle lit red

428

tent room where we didn't met maiden

mother and crown ceremonies and there were

429

programs in there and silence in there and

movement and all kinds of juicy things.

430

I've used that word a lot here.

431

I guess that's the word of the day yet.

432

But day one, I'm walking

out of this space, having

433

witnessed people enjoying it.

434

Being in there, you know, actually

actualizing the place and I'm walking

435

out and I'm like, my feet are not

touching the floor and there is a

436

gentle breeze blowing my hair off my

shoulders and I am one with the universe.

437

I felt so elevated.

438

Could have, I could, I could have

probably struck a match if there

439

was an unlit match around me.

440

I felt that I felt that hollow rod

at the same time going through me.

441

And, and I heard that from other

women in different degrees.

442

So that was when I knew she was present.

443

That's when I, I found her.

444

She had been trying to get my attention

my whole life, but that's when I said,

445

I'm here, you're here, we're here.

446

I hear you.

447

Liz Childs Kelly: I just, I love that

you, you called it a flicker and like,

448

you're using the language of flame

and you know, in my book, I talk about

449

her as like throwing a match at my

feet and kind of setting me on fire.

450

And and I even, yeah.

451

And I've even thought about For me

right now, kind of metaphorically,

452

I'm working with, like, if anybody

has seen my, my work, you may have

453

seen that there's a butterfly.

454

There's like a little kind of stylized

butterfly that's connected to my work.

455

And that's such a common

metaphor of transformation.

456

And and I've also been really, really more

drawn to the, the feeling and the, the

457

imagery of a moth lately, and specifically

a moth to a flame, because the butterfly.

458

To me, you know, we sort of, at least

when we speak about it metaphorically, we

459

know, we know it's going to, it's going

to, it's Caterpillar and it's going to go

460

through the goo, but we're going to come

out something beautiful, you know, and

461

isn't there reassurance in that journey?

462

And, and I, I guess I'm sharing

this, Sande, because I want

463

to hear your reaction to it.

464

But, To me working with the divine

feminine and sacred feminine energy,

465

it's more like she is the flame and I am

the fricking moth and I have got to go,

466

and I don't know what's going to happen.

467

I don't know that I'm going to emerge

on the other side as a butterfly.

468

I have no idea.

469

It is like stepping into that

space of liminality to use your

470

language or, you know, the unknown.

471

I just did a co facilitated retreat

around that topic last weekend,

472

but you know, it can feel like.

473

Like, moving towards annihilation

in a way, and yet It's irresistible.

474

Like we, we need to follow her, you

know, because it's that powerful.

475

So I'm going to stop there.

476

I don't know how that,

477

Sande Hart: please never stop.

478

It, it's as if we don't

have a choice in the matter.

479

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

480

Sande Hart: Now some accept that

readily and go towards the flame and

481

some resisted and we'll continue.

482

I think perhaps to continue

circle around this.

483

And I think this is a

really important point.

484

I know that, you know, I think

we all have similar stuff.

485

Like when you start seeing patterns of

behavior and patterns or relationships

486

and patterns of things happening.

487

You know, I think that

those are absolute gifts.

488

And she's putting them in front

of us constantly until we can look

489

at them and go, okay, dive in.

490

What's this about?

491

Let's get honest.

492

Right.

493

and I love the, the moth

versus the butterfly.

494

And I don't think it's a versus

cause I think both things

495

can happen at the same time.

496

The, the moth though, we discount,

this is just plain and white and every

497

day, just like a w how we would equate

the difference between a flower and a

498

dandelion, but a dandelion is medicine.

499

It's earth's medicine.

500

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

501

Sande Hart: And so when

there's illness or dis ease.

502

You'll start seeing dandelions pop

around, up around the house, right?

503

Or when we see a

dandelion, it's a reminder.

504

And what happens when

we blow in a dandelion?

505

Those seeds spread.

506

That's why I didn't mention this,

but we, after leaving the parliament,

507

it became very clear to me that

Sarah needed to change direction.

508

And we've been grappling

with this for, for years.

509

Are we stale?

510

Is this working?

511

We're not community based anymore.

512

We're not in our community.

513

What are we?

514

We don't want to duplicate

what's happening out there.

515

And so much is happening out there.

516

Where are we?

517

So we sat back and listened carefully,

didn't take our eye off the flame though.

518

And then leaving the parliament.

519

Oh, okay.

520

This is what's next for us.

521

The global women's village.

522

So we changed the name and I'm getting

to the point I'm getting to is.

523

The idea of you'll notice that

there's a dandelion as part of our

524

logo, and that was really intended to

illustrate what we are really about.

525

And that's blowing in

one another's dandelion.

526

This is something Jean Shinoda

Bolen likes to talk about that

527

blowing in your dandelions.

528

It's what we could do for one another

is blow in one another's dandelion.

529

But then just a few weeks

ago, I learned this.

530

Fact about dandelions

being Earth's medicine.

531

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

532

And I also learned that they are here

on this continent because my English

533

ancestors thought they were so valuable

that they needed to bring them over

534

when they immigrated from England.

535

And I think definitely England, maybe

other parts of the British Isles too,

536

but they, they are, I'm fairly certain

they're not native to the United States.

537

They were brought as medicine,

specifically as medicine.

538

So yeah, kind of cool.

539

And I have some

540

Sande Hart: dandelion tea in my cupboard.

541

It's like, I never connected the two.

542

So that Ma, absolutely.

543

You know, it's time we start

questioning assumptions.

544

This is what I feel about

everything you said.

545

And this is so much a part of what's

important for us is the role of women

546

right now in these evolutionary times

is that we start questioning assumptions

547

about what we think of things.

548

And I'm so grateful that you are such a.

549

On the forefront of this, I should say

that you are willing and able to say,

550

see that the yourself in that moth.

551

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

552

Well, yes.

553

And I, yes.

554

And I, I have, I feel like I've had

lots of experience of Heading towards

555

that flame and it often does feel

like annihilation, although sweet

556

in a way, but yeah, there's a lot of

like a burning down of old structures

557

that are no longer going to serve.

558

And I've, you know, been actively in

that process for one way or another for,

559

you know, since I met her, since I, she,

she showed herself to me 10 years ago.

560

So yeah.

561

Sande Hart: I think that's

what she wants from us.

562

I think that's, and I used

to say marching orders.

563

Those are our dancing orders.

564

We get to do this as the embodied female.

565

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes, we do.

566

And I, I love, I'd love to hear you talk.

567

So now you've had this two decades

of women's spiritual activism.

568

I don't know if that's how you'd call it,

but I love to hear you talk about like

569

what, and now that she is really made

herself known to you, like, how is that

570

showing up and where you're headed now?

571

And what's, what's evolving

and coming forward for you?

572

Sande Hart: Yeah, thank you for asking.

573

And again, this is all kind of new for me.

574

So it's very fresh, but I'm really

celebrating the fact that I'm

575

experiencing a lot of courage in

my life that I didn't have before.

576

Liz Childs Kelly: It's

577

Sande Hart: coming out in my words.

578

It's coming out in my initiatives.

579

It's, it's getting me really crystal

clear on, and I'm not 100 percent

580

there, but I'm getting much more clear.

581

As it's crystallizing for me that I'm,

I can be in reverence to something,

582

you know, I, what, one of the biggest

evidences of her in my life and to

583

answer your question was, and I'll

say, there's this song by George

584

Harrison, My Dear Lord, I Really Want

to Know You, I Really Want to Love

585

You, I Really Want to Be Like You.

586

My whole life I really, really wanted to

know that yearning or that longing, you

587

know, I really wanted it, but I wasn't

finding it anywhere in my experience.

588

And it was not that long ago that

I came upon this painting of Mary

589

Magdalene, who exemplifies her in so

many ways with all the things coming

590

off of her and how she is painted and

the manner in which she was painted.

591

And felt that longing.

592

And now I can I can really, you

know, I'm struggling with, do I

593

lower my head in reverence or raise

my head, my head in gratitude?

594

You know, no matter what I do, I

feel completely embodied for her.

595

And it was the first time

I've ever found that.

596

And I have to say, none of this, I

haven't abandoned my My Judaism, I

597

found a place for Judaism in my life,

which is where it's always been in

598

that is I love to light the Shabbat

candles on Friday night, because that

599

connects me to my grandmothers and

my ancestors who were right with me.

600

They're lighting the room.

601

If you can't see them,

I, I know they're there.

602

Maybe you can imagine them as

perhaps I see yours as well.

603

They're, they're a direct connection

to not just every woman lighting

604

candles that night at the same

time, somewhere else in the world.

605

Or at sunset.

606

So we have the full 24 hours of it.

607

We're all saying a similar prayer, being

grateful for this light that we can bring.

608

But also this lineage and mine

happens to be all the, go all the

609

way back to the beginning of time.

610

I, my husband wasn't born Jewish,

so can't say that about my daughter,

611

but she feels that connection.

612

So she can own that because she is my seed

in her as do her, my two granddaughters.

613

Yeah.

614

So that's how it shows up in me.

615

Absolute reverence and courage.

616

And a knowing that I'm here.

617

I have a sacred task.

618

It's where my passions meet

the needs in the world.

619

My calling as Aristotle says.

620

And and it, it wasn't that hard to do.

621

It came when I think it was developed

when I was writing the liminal

622

odyssey, because I was grappling

with all these stories in my life.

623

It's the spiritual memoir.

624

Right.

625

And I'm looking at every one of

these experiences that happened.

626

Which immediately was led to the science,

or the philosophy, or the folklore, or the

627

mythology of the meaning of what happened.

628

And, and it put everything, and it

made everything so full of grace

629

for me, that I had this Indra's

net to catch her, to catch me.

630

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

631

And so one of the things that I think

it comes up for me when you talk about

632

your background and so lovely, that

idea of being connected to women all

633

the way back through the beginning of

time, which I think, I think actually

634

lots of us can hold that in different

ways too, regardless of your, your

635

spiritual tradition, but for you,

it seems so deeply connected to

636

your heritage, your Jewish heritage.

637

And yeah, I, I wondering if you would be

willing to speak to, you know, you've got

638

all of this work in Compassion and peace.

639

And right now we're in this like

powder keg of a situation of what's

640

happening in Israel and Gaza.

641

And I'm just wondering like how

you are holding that with this,

642

this deep commitment to that.

643

And also this deep commitment

to your, to your Jewish faith,

644

then your Jewish heritage.

645

Like, how are you, how are you navigating

that and how are you holding that?

646

Sande Hart: Yeah.

647

Thank you for asking that question

because it brings me to my knees.

648

There are no words.

649

It's unfathomable that this is happening.

650

I personally, And this isn't the

story of my parents, but I don't

651

personally identify with Israel.

652

I understand it's, it's existence.

653

I understand it's story.

654

My Judaism is really connected,

like you said, to pre Israel yet.

655

We're all connected in such profound

ways, but I've never aligned with

656

the politics of what it means

to survive as a religion, right?

657

I've never aligned with that.

658

I don't think it's a justification

for one single murder.

659

And and I, what I'm

watching is nationalism.

660

I'm not looking at religion.

661

I'm it's so disgraceful and unfortunate

that this is happening in the name of

662

Judaism or it's associated with Judaism

because Israel is a Jewish state and it's

663

supposed to embody these values and it

was the place that Jews could be safe.

664

And here, how are we treating

our brother and cousins?

665

I hear so many stories from my Muslim

sisters of how their aunties, their next

666

door neighbors growing up were Jewish,

and how they would have each other over

667

for each other's holidays and teach

each other how to cook different things.

668

That is how we behave as a humanity.

669

But this is nationalism.

670

I think this is just the

epitome of nationalism.

671

Of an example of all of the systems that

are breaking down on our planet right now,

672

this leads us right into the conversation

of the system of domination and the

673

resistance to what's breaking through.

674

You know, we're at this really

fascinating time in history, aren't we?

675

I mean, what a blessing.

676

And I'd like to think I had

something to do with choosing to

677

be here, but I'm sure happy I am.

678

Although I was born 10 years

too late because I would have

679

been a great hippie, but I can

680

Liz Childs Kelly: see that about

you, but I think you're too, you

681

know, like you might've gotten

too distracted with the fun of it.

682

And then you're here for

an important mission.

683

So I think you're right on

time, but I could see that.

684

Sande Hart: What kind of trip I would

have gotten lost in, but I used to hand

685

out love beads on the bus, and this is

during the 70s, where it was hip huggers

686

in neon colors, and here I'm a hippie

with, you know daisies in my braids.

687

So the, this dichotomy, you know,

we're at this really fascinating

688

time where this right, this rise

of frequency on our planet and

689

these conversations are plentiful.

690

They don't make CNN, you know, they

don't, you'll never find him on

691

television, unfortunately, maybe one

day you will, but the airways are

692

flooded with evolutionary thinkers.

693

Those of us who are accepting that

we're at this bend, cosmologists,

694

cosmetologists, everybody, they're

all having this conversation

695

no matter where they are.

696

And, and I meant cosmetologists, you

know, because I have this conversation

697

when I'm getting my hair done.

698

So they Same, by the way, same.

699

Yes.

700

Liz Childs Kelly: You're right.

701

You're so right.

702

Sande Hart: I just don't want

anybody to think I mixed up my words.

703

But at any rate and and we're

also watching systems fall apart.

704

You know, it's like the

seed that has been planted.

705

In us the seed that has been our inherited

right and especially women because we

706

know biologically we pass our seeds down

through our bloodline to our daughters and

707

our daughters to our daughters daughters.

708

So I'm carrying like great great great

great ancestors grandmothers seed.

709

What is my responsibility to that?

710

But like a seed underground

that's been just waiting patiently

711

for the right conditions.

712

To start coming through the soil.

713

We can see both.

714

It has to disintegrate first.

715

Of course, it has to fall apart.

716

It has to change its DNA.

717

And I don't like the butterfly.

718

You mentioned its DNA

will completely change.

719

It won't resemble anything of

what that seed looked like.

720

It'll break through the soil and we have

no idea what what it's going to manifest.

721

We don't know if it's going to be 10, 000

forests like oak trees or if it's going

722

to be and whatever it's going to be,

whatever species it's going to show up as.

723

We get this privilege.

724

To to garden it to be the

sacred gardeners of that seed.

725

So we're watching both of these

things happen and we have to

726

really go easy on ourselves.

727

It doesn't have to be this hard.

728

We put a lot of there's enough

happening out there to weigh us down.

729

We put enough on ourselves.

730

And by the way, we, you know, this

domination trans women have been

731

walking in that we have to play

small that, you know, we carry this

732

guilt and the shame and all of these

things, which, you know, we could have

733

another three programs on right here.

734

And I know you've had these conversations

that we have to take a load off ourselves

735

and give ourselves some love and grace.

736

Liz Childs Kelly: For sure.

737

Sande Hart: We're needed right now.

738

We need to clear the gunk.

739

I believe I read in your

book and I wrote it in mine.

740

We have got to clear the gunk,

remove the wheat from the chaff

741

and be the mothers in the room.

742

You know?

743

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

744

And that leads into, I think, you

know, conversations that you and I

745

have had separately over email and,

and oh, and, and, you know, like on,

746

on in person or at least on zoom too.

747

But like what?

748

What do you see emerging

right now in terms of women's

749

lead, and you tell me if you want to

use the word leadership or not, because

750

I feel like that's got some patriarchal

kind of hang ups with it too, but

751

like women's leadership potential and

roles and the possibilities that are

752

there in this moment as everything is

breaking down, like where and how are

753

you seeing the opportunity for women to

really step forward in different ways?

754

very much.

755

Sande Hart: I am so grateful you

mentioned the languaging around the

756

word leadership, because that's really

been rubbing me right for me leadership.

757

And this will answer your question where

I think we're going, where it's showing

758

up for me I'm seeing evidence of it.

759

And I've been doing this research on

this very particular conversation,

760

what is the future of women's

leadership and I'm crowdsourcing.

761

The knowledge I'm not looking in

books, although I take that back.

762

I am looking and reading

books and following threads.

763

But really, my primary clinical

research is in having conversations

764

and hearing it from people ages 15 to

93 so far soon to be a 12 year old.

765

And she's brilliant.

766

And because I want to hear from

people what they think, and what I'm

767

coming to the understanding is, is

we need a new, we need new language.

768

We need new words around this.

769

And the word leadership

in itself is hierarchical.

770

Yes.

771

Right.

772

It, it, it, and so how do we stretch the

edges of what's possible to the place

773

where it's It needs a new language.

774

It needs a new word.

775

And I think this is going to be the

first time I mention this publicly,

776

but I've been using the expression,

women who future women who are

777

okay we know where we've come from.

778

I mean, just read home to her.

779

You have this beautiful through line

of, of, and for good reason why we're,

780

why we've come this far, but now that

we know, now that we've read Liz Childs

781

Kelly's book, now that we know this

stuff, and we have an endless supply

782

of other resources that tell us this,

Okay, if we still choose to live in

783

that space, we're victimizing now.

784

We got to get really honest and real here.

785

We've got to say, okay, I get that.

786

What do I have to do?

787

What do I have to clear?

788

What do I have to look at?

789

What assumptions do I have to question

and, and start, you know, developing,

790

creating a new system for us.

791

And I think you're the one, no, you

are the who said, you know, this

792

system that we're trying to fix.

793

Wasn't designed for

women in the first place.

794

It's time to recreate a new system.

795

And so what doesn't work hierarchy?

796

What's what's old and tired

systems of domination.

797

So we have to look at ourselves, the

words we use, what we think of ourselves

798

and how do we, And this is the my

favorite part about this whole thing

799

and what women who feature do and that

is that we question every assumption.

800

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

801

Sande Hart: What are these

patterns that have gotten me here?

802

And why do I think like that?

803

Why do I use that word?

804

Is that word really relevant?

805

What words are we using that

I shouldn't be using anymore?

806

You will not find the word submit

on any button on our website.

807

We're just eliminating words.

808

We're creating a new narrative too.

809

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

810

Even your point to marching orders.

811

Like there's so many.

812

Metaphors of dominance and violence

and hierarchy in our language that we

813

don't, we don't even think about it.

814

Like when people say, I feel

really triggered, you know, like

815

there's so many ways that we

just accept this into our lives.

816

And yeah, you are, yes,

you're, you're so right.

817

And I, I wanted to name too.

818

And I wonder if you feel this Sande, and

I actually think that what you're doing

819

with Sarah and its transformation to the

global woman's village is so important.

820

But because we're doing this.

821

We have no roadmap like we do and we

don't like yes You can look at my book

822

and realize we have not this has been

done before but not in this context and

823

not at This scale like the reality is

we can look back at other cultures and

824

learn from them, but we've never been As

connected globally, the way we are now

825

with this matrix and capital capitalism

and 8 billion people on the planet.

826

Yes, like all of that is

so helpful and informative.

827

And we're also, you know, we're,

there's that Adrian rich poem,

828

the maps they gave us were out

of date by decades or something.

829

I'll find it and I'll

put it in his show notes.

830

It's so, so gorgeous.

831

And so I wonder, like, for you, how do

you hold the Because it can feel like, you

832

know, you're stepping into liminal space.

833

It can feel like annihilation.

834

Like, I don't know where I'm going.

835

I don't know where I'm going.

836

Like, how do you, how do you hold that,

you know, like in that, because there's

837

something so exciting about, in a way

about these systems falling apart and

838

the opportunity to future, you know, and

imagine the new, and there's something

839

also very terrifying about it, because

we don't know where we're going, right?

840

Sande Hart: We don't know where we're

going, but we know we're on our way.

841

And I don't want to poison the

water hole when I get there.

842

And so first of all, where do I hold it?

843

I hold it in a container.

844

There's not even a container

or constellation of on wonder.

845

I'm constantly going,

Oh, that's interesting.

846

Where before I'd go, Oh my God, you

know, I'm like, Oh, what's that about?

847

Cause I can remove myself and my ego

and my victimization and my traumas.

848

which are real and do deserve

real love and care and whatever

849

attention is necessary.

850

I don't want to discount that, but my

answer is, I don't know where we're going,

851

but I'm willing to be a sacred gardener.

852

And what I also think is really important

is that we show up with our sacred task.

853

What do you do?

854

Liz, you are a phenomenal orator.

855

You're a phenomenal weaver of stories.

856

You are a beautiful expression of the

divine feminine, particularly how you hold

857

space on the airwaves, what you're doing

with these airwaves that are flooded and

858

why you're, we choose to listen to you.

859

Right.

860

That's for me that I would suggest that

that might be one of your sacred tasks.

861

I know another one is being,

you know, an amazing mom.

862

And so the, the, and sister and friend,

yet we have these sacred tasks that are

863

our seat in our pocket or our womb, you

know, and what are we going to do with it?

864

And that was a revelation I had

while standing on a walking bridge

865

just down the road from Auschwitz.

866

It's, I don't know if you remember the

last chapter of my book where we had

867

spent the day in Auschwitz and the next

morning, I'm standing over this bridge

868

that's going, you know, under me and

all these ducks and the slush greenery

869

everywhere wondering where did Jews

hide in here, you know, and by the way,

870

when I'm walking through the little

town of Auschwitz, which is Auschwitz

871

in, in in Polish, I would look at,

you know, in churches and look at are

872

those panels hollow or people were

people hiding there or in their attics.

873

But here I'm standing on this

bridge looking in the trees going.

874

Wow.

875

And then I realized.

876

I am standing over the bridge, over the

water that has come down past Auschwitz,

877

the death camp, and now the museum, called

the museum, that where ashes of the souls

878

were dispensed up to hide the evidence.

879

And I immediately realized that all

of the souls had to have absorbed

880

into Beside the banks of this little

teeny river and giving growth and

881

life that I'm going to start crying.

882

I'm there with you.

883

Yes.

884

Tell this story.

885

I wrote it.

886

It's still, it's still new to

me, you know, gave refuge in

887

life to for life to continue.

888

And then I heard, and this was, never

realized until this moment, but another

889

voice I heard were millions Of souls

saying we choose love, we choose love, we

890

don't let mourning be our story, right?

891

Learn, but live, and, and in that

way, we can say everything that's come

892

before us, as we're standing over that

river, what are we going to do with it?

893

Are we going to, are we going

to acknowledge where it's,

894

how it's brought us this far?

895

Are we going to say, we are the

ones that get to redirect the river,

896

and we do that through awareness,

watching our language, and accepting

897

our dancing orders, and it takes

time, it takes practice, it's not that

898

easy, I'm not suggesting it's easy,

but it's as easy to do the practice,

899

just pay attention to your words.

900

That's a great start.

901

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, it also

feels, and I think this may be

902

a good place for us to, to wrap.

903

I'm just so like, woof, so full from

this, but it also, I had a feeling,

904

you know, when you're talking

about the water and the river and

905

imagining you and I are going to be.

906

ancestors one day, and I can promise

you we're going to be intentional

907

as heck about it, like, we're

living our lives that way now.

908

But I just had that sense of

like, stepping into that stream of

909

human possibility and potential.

910

And that I don't know why this is making

me so emotional, but that I get to let

911

go of like, knowing the outcome in my

lifetime or even my children's lifetime.

912

It doesn't matter.

913

It really doesn't because I'm just,

I'm just willing, I'm so willing

914

to put myself into that stream.

915

And I know you are too.

916

And I think if we all do that, I

think that's, that's more than enough.

917

It really is more than enough.

918

Sande Hart: You just reminded

me of Henry David Thoreau.

919

Go go in the direction of your dreams,

harbor, live the life you imagined.

920

And that's what we get to do.

921

Thank you for that beautiful summation.

922

Liz Childs Kelly: Oh my gosh.

923

This is so incredibly

rich and wonderful, Sande.

924

I just, I, I, every time I get to be

with you, my heart is so full and I'm

925

so glad that people get to hear from

you and experience You here on the show.

926

So thank you so much for all that you do

in the way that you show up in the world.

927

I think I'm really want to acknowledge.

928

I've been paying attention to this

a lot lately that I believe that

929

we all have a choice that you, you

didn't have to say yes to this path.

930

You didn't, you could have

chosen a different life.

931

You really could have.

932

And you said yes.

933

And so thank you.

934

Cause I think we're all,

we're all benefiting from it.

935

Sande Hart: Thank you.

936

Yeah, we're all mirrors

for each other, too.

937

So thank you.

938

And everyone out there who's listening

because that means you're there, too.

939

So I think that this is

important to acknowledge.

940

We are so mighty in numbers.

941

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, oh my gosh.

942

I will put a link to the global

website, Global Woman's Village.

943

It's out there.

944

I can send people to it.

945

Yep.

946

Okay.

947

I will do that.

948

And yeah, I don't know.

949

Go have a good cry if you need one.

950

I might do that after this, but just, I

want to thank all of you for listening.

951

I just, I know, I, I, If you paid

attention, there's been a big gap.

952

I, if you listened, I've,

I'm going through a divorce.

953

And so, you know, my, my energy

has been in different places,

954

but these conversations, they so

like fill my heart and my soul.

955

So I thank you for continuing to

show up and and, you know, bringing

956

your own heart into these into these

spaces and yeah, until next time,

957

take such good care of yourselves and

I will be with you again, very soon.

958

Home to Her is hosted by me, Liz Kelley.

959

You can visit me online at hometoher.

960

com, where you can find show

notes and other episodes.

961

You can read articles about the

Sacred Feminine, and you'll also

962

find a link to join the Home to

Her Facebook group for lots more

963

discussion and exploration of Her.

964

You can also follow me on Instagram,

at home to her, to keep up to

965

date with the latest episodes.

966

Thanks so much for joining us

and we'll see you back here soon.