Successful Entrepreneurs Solve Problems with Jamie Barlett from PolyPay

Artwork for podcast Looking Forward Our Way

Episode 74 • 20th February 2023 • Looking Forward Our Way • Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson

Jamie: I was gonna be that gold watch person, you know, I would be somewhere for 45 years. And that was my plan because, uh, that was, you know, that is what my parents had done as well. And I thought, well, if you're going to go out there, I thought, what problem am I gonna solve? Because I think that's a big thing with the entrepreneurs now is that they get out there and there's so much romanticizing out on Instagram and social media people with this, uh, hashtag boss babe or things like that, where there's these stylized photos of people just killing it.

Brett: We are looking forward our way from Studio C in the Five One One Studios in the Brewery District just south of downtown Columbus. Hi, this is Brett, and with me, as always, is Carol. Uh, dear listener, if you've listened to most of our episodes over the past year and years, we've had some great opportunities to delve into the issues of small businesses in Ohio. Who owns them, how to get them started, how to grow them, and how or when to even close them.

Carol: We've had some great conversations and everyone knows small businesses are the lifeblood of the American economy. So it's an important topic. Um, but in today's markets, small businesses are suffering. And a few weeks ago, we were participating in an event with the Tri Village Chamber Partnership. And our shout out to the partnership. They're wonderful folks. Um, but, uh, during this event, we have an opportunity to meet Jamie Barlett, who is the CEO and founder of a company called Polypay. Jamie, thanks for joining us today.

Jamie: Thank you so much. Appreciate the opportunity. Hello.

Brett: Yeah. We're going to discover more about your company, Polypay. However, let's first take a look at your background. What experiences did you have before starting your own business? Uh, how are those experiences critical to building your skills to actually take a leap and create a business?

ulting company that has about: 1200

Brett: Imagery there.

Jamie: Wow.

Brett: Very much.

Jamie: Yeah. Both departments did not like me whatsoever. They just were like, what are you doing? And I go, I think I have, like, a split personality.

Carol: I'm not sure this is why Jamie and I get along so well. So immediately, my PhD is in sociology with a minor in business. And everybody kept saying to me, what.

Brett: Are you doing to make up your mind?

Carol: But, uh, how much easier to see organizational behavior and design from both a business perspective as well as social science?

Jamie: Absolutely, yes. And I just thought, well, look, I understand economics and business, but also, I think the big thing was, back then, people that were great at business couldn't communicate right. They may be a great financial brain. They knew the numbers. But talking to some of these people, I thought, you can't talk your way out of a box here. I mean, they could literally not write, nor could they educate somebody else in their department because they knew it in their brain, but they could not get it out in a way that people could understand. So that was at least my selling point, too. My parents were both going, what are you doing? What's happening? I don't go. It was funny because my mom was an English teacher in high school, and then my father was a banker for years and years and years and years. So maybe it was a silent way to appease both of them. Yeah, I was playing both sides of the street, so I don't know. That's why I kind of found myself in San Francisco working and consulting. I thought, maybe I'll figure out what I want to do. And I was immediately thrust into high tech. I didn't know a thing about high tech at all. Here I am. I knew my, uh, x and Y axis guns and butter. They teach you supply and demand for economics, and then here I am, and I got to work for Cisco, Hyundai, Kaiser Permanente, pacific Gas and Electric. I went everywhere for all these jobs. So it was like I got paid to kind of learn to be in these different tech industries, which was fascinating. And I eventually jumped ship as one dozen consulting for actually pacific Gas and Electric, um, utility, uh, over in San Francisco. And then I ended up working for them for about five years as well, in a variety of capacities leadership, development, HR. I got to do union work, so I got to do a bunch of stuff around there. But I think the precipice for the entrepreneur side was I realized that I just wasn't actually happy anymore in a large company, um, I'm very risk averse. I thought I would be just fine walking into the cubicle with my little briefcase and clocking in and clocking out and going home, and I just was responsible for my own sphere, and that would be fine. And I think in your question, Brad, about the environment or what was sort of maybe a tipping point for me, too, was I had had enough, unfortunately, bad bosses that I had learned if I ever did hang out my own shingle and become something, I knew how to not be a bad boss. I had spent enough time in a bad environment where, unfortunately, there were a lot of younger people like me, um, working around me. And we were trying hard to make suggestions, try and talk to management, and people were just not having it. Unfortunately, they viewed it as a threat. They were, at the same time, trying to attract younger talent, but they were not listening to us. They reviewed all of us. Oh, you're young, you don't know what you were talking about. Or some of them, in fact, felt threatened. And we're like, just leave it as it is. If it's not broke, don't fix, uh, whatever. I'm saying, if it's not broke, don't fix it. That was the issue I had, and I thought it was stifling. You couldn't get anywhere. There were a lot of unhappy people. And I got to a point where I was driving to work every day, and I used to live down in Redwood City, and I drive into the city every day. I would have panic attacks. I did not want to physically go into work. And I finally realized at that point, I don't want to be here anymore. When, you know, your environment is just that negative and not nurturing, I thought, I think I actually have to go do something else here. And that's when I actually really started considering to start my own business.

Carol: But, you know, you had, uh, because of timing, when the economy didn't have it had too many workers, as opposed to now, when there were so many people out there, um, it was hard to get opportunities.

Jamie: Oh, yes.

Carol: And so when you did get those, though, you were also on cutting edge, learning new technologies. I remember a, uh, job that I had with the state of Ohio. I suddenly got thrust into becoming project, um, manager for a $20 million computer program. And I'm like, I had no clue. But you learn. You get out of that's why.

Jamie: One of my first projects, uh, in consulting was I was up in San Jose and they dropped me in the middle of Cisco, in the middle of their Hiday and said, so you're going to work on migrating our data center. I said what? I'm an English major. What are you talking what, I can use a laptop? But here you were, you didn't have a choice. That you were frontline, you were kind of, for lack of a better phrase, you were the cannon fodder. You're going to go in, we're going to figure it out, we're going to bill for you and we're going to start working on a project. And so you just kind of learn to just go, okay, follow the leader and we'll figure it out.

Carol: I know with me, I was lucky to have the resources behind me.

Jamie: Mhm.

Carol: They didn't have enough people to get the work done at the time. But, yeah, we were cannon fodder, but we got the job done. So, um, Jamie, your company, which is PolyPay, based in California, give us a little bit of an overview on the steps you took to decide on the industry you wanted to tackle. Um, it's a credit card processing company, um, as that as opposed to any other activity. So tell us a little bit about Polypay and sort of how you decided to create.

Jamie: Sure. So when I kind of finally made the decision in my mind that I was going to do something on my own, which was a huge thought for me, my parents were shocked. They thought this is Jamie. I was going to be that gold watch person. I would be somewhere for 45 years. And that was my plan because, uh, that is what my parents had done as well. And I thought, well, if you're going to go out there, I thought, what problem am I going to solve? Because I think that's a big thing with entrepreneurs now is that they get out there and there's so much romanticizing out on Instagram and social media people with this hashtag, uh, boss babe or things like that, where they see stylized photos of people just killing it, supposedly. And I thought, okay, well, that's all well and good, but are, uh, these people really thinking about what process or service am I going to offer that somebody's going to have to exchange their hard earned dollars for? So I thought long and hard. I thought, Well, I know a bit about finance. I work well with people. Um, and so I kind of looked at my dad a little bit. He had been a banker, as I said, for many years, for a bank that doesn't exist anymore, national bank of Detroit. Um, and he was running the trust department for many years and he had instilled this, uh, strength and belief in me about be a fiduciary for someone, be sure you take care of somebody. If you ever work with someone's money, you need to take care of it. They've worked long and hard. He managed people's generational wealth. He goes, you have to respect that. Uh, how hard they've worked for that. I thought, well, what's something with that? And he actually for a while, did actually work for Mastercard for a few years. So I knew a little bit about the credit card industry. He was sort of in operations for them. Um, so I thought, well, how do I put those two together? And as I looked into the industry more, again, still kind of had a consulting background, had a problem solving background, finally that I had honed and I thought, well, what about the payment processing, the credit card industry? I thought, that sounds like a horrible industry. Uh, everywhere I read, there were just these bad actors people. All I could read were bad reviews of people they felt taken advantage of. And I thought, well, how hard would it just be to go out there and be like, oh, I'm going to be the good person and just take care of you and not rip you off and answer the phone? I thought, well, let's try that. So that's kind of how polype was born.

Carol: That's interesting. And I love your quote saying, what problem are you going to solve? Because we have, from the career counseling side of me, always told our clients, you're getting hired by an employer because they have a problem and you're going to solve it. So you have to think in terms of a resume that shows that you're going to solve their problems. But I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of starting a business.

Jamie: Yes. And I think so many people and it's a crowded industry. My industry is very crowded. There's a lot of very big operators, a lot of midsize operators. There's operators that are my size as well. But I think it's just very much, at the end of the day, how you're taking care of like everyone says, well, how are you any different than others? And this is literally a business where it's a half a penny sometimes gets you a contract because it depends on if they have 50,000 transactions going on. It's amazing how much a half a penny can end up at the same time. So the numbers never lie. That's one thing, but it sounds trite. But the big thing is the customer support. The actually being honest and not raising rates and being there, being on the other side of the phone. I know it sounds trite, but that's what to this day, has kept us having our first customer still ten years later.

Carol: But it's also where a lot of people try to entice folks to create their own business. There's a lot of, um, counselors out there who want to make sure that you get your start and doing a business. But I've always heard it where, what is your interest what is your passion? So it's very much an individual perspective. What do I want to do? I've never heard it in terms of creating a company where you're really thinking of the problem that your clients have m, that you can solve. So it's really a different perspective that I think is kind of key and could be advantageous, um, to an individual who wants to create a business to see it from both sides. Yeah, you want to be interested. I mean, if you're not interested, you're not going to stick with it.

Jamie: Like they say, if you love what you do, you're not going to really work.

Carol: Right.

Jamie: I think if you like being a problem solver, which I did, I think owning that from consulting and whatnot, you have to tackle X number of tasks. And I thought, I just like solving problems. And this work in this business is like tackling problems for customers every day. And every no day is the same as the previous, which is what I love doing.

Carol: Small businesses are at risk nearly every day, and the rate of success is so low. That's where I'm kind of coming from, like, how do we make people more successful? And boy, from the very get go, really thinking about what you're creating is so important.

Jamie: It makes it look so easy, I think, especially in terms of the Pandemic as well, which I think is great about the US. I mean, there's a lot of people, even though, uh, I have a lot of friends I've met that literally through the Pandemic, they decided, I'm done, I'm going to start my own business. I thought, God give them credit at least. I started my business in a pretty decent economy at the time. And I thought, Well, God, more power to you. But, uh, that's what I love about the US. And the Midwest in general. People seem to forget that. They look at the coasts, I think, and they don't realize all of everything that's in the middle of this country, how many small businesses there are, how many multi generational businesses there are. There's so much to learn from people like that. So I think I just want entrepreneurs, um, to think about the fact that you have to really be serious about it, just because it looks cooler, it's neat, and you think it looks easy, it's going to be uglier more days than it is at the beginning. And again, you have to figure out how someone I'm fortunate in my business, my goal is to actually save you money every month, so they shouldn't be putting out any money with us. So we have a unique offering in that sense, but in the more traditional sense for entrepreneurs, you really have to think about, why is someone going to pick you? And I didn't have any sales for a few months, and I was really scared. And I thought, Why aren't they going with me? And I'm like, Jamie, why would they go with you? You've been around, literally, you're like, uh, a fetus.

Carol: A nanosecond.

Jamie: You're like a fetus. You're not even walking right now. You're still floating in the gestational period here. Why would they pick you? It's like, oh, okay, let's think about your peers who have been in the industry 60 years. 50 years. Why the hell would they not? So it was a reality check for a few months. I had to realize, I have really got to convince somebody. It's kind of like that parent that says their kid is the best looking kid and the smartest and the nicest, and I thought, But I'm the best. No, that's not realistic. Jamie so it was humbling. And then you have to really start to turn around and say, you have to put yourself in the boots of the customer and go, why would they pick you versus another 50 of you down the road?

Carol: Right.

Jamie: Mhm.

Brett: You decided to start your own business and you knew what you could create and be successful. Um, there had to be surprises, challenges, um, on top of you deciding to grow the business in Ohio and other states, coupled, uh, with did you feel that being a female in the business world made it harder as well, too? I mean, that's a lot to answer there, but yes, those bits and pieces.

partners that we've had since: 2016

Carol: We have to give them a shout out.

Jamie: Yes, absolutely. Yes. I love all the very much ross and Ryan and Doug and all of those great people that work for me. So it's been fantastic. But that was difficult. And I think if I'm addressing kind of the women aspect, Brad, uh, I definitely would say this is an industry, especially with very few females in it.

Brett: I was going to have very few females. I don't know the players at all. Anybody talk about this field?

Jamie: Um, was that an advantage, though? It was interesting. It was definitely like the funny thing is the playoff of my name. My name looks masculine.

Brett: Okay.

Jamie: Ah, spelling. I was named after my dad. So it's funny. You'd have interactions with people over email and maybe they didn't look I'm on the website, you can look at me, there I am. But sometimes they didn't look at that. I'd show up at networking event and kind of there was initial oh, I was like, surprise. Um, which was kind of fun. That was a little advantageous. Ah, but there weren't a lot of, um, as I said, ISO owners like me. I think years ago, I was one of eight entities like that in this payment processing space that were owned by a woman west of the Mississippi. So there was very few. And you, uh, do see some women that are in the sales capacity, but I've only seen a, uh, handful of women that have been in at least in a C suite role or even like a president or something like that over the past ten years. There is still a dearth of women in this industry, which I think is a shame because women are great salesmen. Salespeople, uh, excuse me, uh, but they're great salespeople and I think they just don't know that. And I have to be admitted honest. I have referral advocates that are women, but I don't have any full time sales people that are women. I've had a couple over the years, but they have chosen to move on for whatever reason. But interesting. Yes, it is surprising. So I think sometimes people look at me and go, hypocrite uh? And I go, I'm trying, I'm open to any I'm a meritocracy, uh, I believe in a meritocracy. So male, female, whatever it is, it's whoever is good for the job. But it would be great to see some more women in the industry, for sure. I think it's getting better. It's getting better.

Brett: That's good, right? So you're moving multi state. Uh, you want to be closer to home as well too, or uh that's a jump. Yeah, that's east coast. West coast, middle of the country.

Jamie: Yes.

Brett: Deal.

Jamie: After leaving Tech and consulting San Luis Obispo, actually I had family there, which was kind of middle of the middle of the state. And so I decided to start my business there because the town actually was a really great way to test it out. It's one of those small towns and maybe you could even say, I mean, it's much smaller than Columbus, but I would say it's one of those towns where they're old school enough that if you do a good job, everybody knows. And if you do a bad job, everybody knows. So I thought, well, here's a way to test my net worth here to see if I can pull this off, then I must be doing okay. So we were there for many years and then, uh, through referrals or merchant referrals, uh, we grew to about eleven states, as we're at right now. And about a year and a half ago I thought, you know what, I want to go back to where my family is. So I had no more. My parents were deceased, um, and they had been in California with me. And, uh, the rest of my family is all in Cleveland, Indianapolis, um, Akron area. And I thought, you know what, I just want to go back and be closer to family. And I thought, well, I knew nothing of Columbus. I'd read about it. I thought, what a great town. It was growing. There were so many small businesses, there was always something to do. And I think probably secretly my family was pleased with like, all right, she's close, but she's not too close, right? She's 2 hours away, but if she gets irritating, she can go. And I'm sure they think that, um, for me, I'm sure. So it's a safe zone. Like you're family adjacent, right? Is that the phrase? Like, you're not down the street, you have to really think long and hard. If you want me to come, I'll come, kind of thing. So I'm sure they appreciate the space about that. But really, Brett, I just want to be closer to family. And I thought Columbus, uh, the more I visited a few times, I thought, what a great town. This town has endless runway to it and the energy and I have to be honest. And it's not a knock on California. Far more open people. I mean, uh, sitting down and talking with people tentatively. I moved here about a year and a half ago, and I finally started doing some networking, really only about a year ago. It took me a while to really consider, should this be home only, or should this actually be another frontier for us? And I couldn't believe how open people were. It was almost like I thought it was, uh, like, where's the camera? Because California, everyone's holding walking down the side. Don't talk to me. Don't talk to me. Don't talk to me. Don't talk to me. And when I sat down and started going to chamber events or other things, and people generally asked, what do you do? And I was like, what? Ah. Is this where I talk now? Okay, uh, this is great. That was very refreshing and very reinvigorating for me, for my business as well. And I thought it was almost like getting to start over, but you knew all the tricks. After ten years of mistakes and issues I felt like I got to do over in the universe. I thought, oh, I can start a whole new greenfield opportunity. But now I knew. Don't make this mistake, don't do that. It's like, uh, I had all the errors in my quiver to make sure that I followed the right way to work with customers. For sure.

Carol: Uh, I'm always amazed when we get into the podcast, because Brett and I always say we always learn something new. And even though you and I've had conversations, I've gone through the questions and all. It's like, this is a really complicated industry.

Jamie: Yes.

Carol: And it's much bigger than I, uh, would have thought. I figured there were, like, three companies out there that do it.

Jamie: Oh, no. Oh, my gosh, yes. There's a lot and people that only cater to certain industries or verticals. Unfortunately, we touch everything. And that's also the problem being in this industry. It's like you never turn off your light because it's like, wherever I go somewhere, I'm like, what are you using to take the car? It's like you never turn off. And that's also a, uh, business development problem for me, because every time that's why, thank God. What's the line? You hire people smarter than you to work for you. So thank God, because they keep me in line. Because I'll come back and I'm like, what about this? I was like, all right, James, we're already spread this. Then what about this vertical or this vertical? And they're like, look, we know everyone takes cards. Let's just focus on where we could be of best value. So they reigned me back in, which I appreciate.

Carol: We need to meet your team.

Jamie: They're amazing. I adore them. I'm very lucky. But I feel like I earned them. It's like kissing too many frogs, and then I got a bunch of friends.

Brett: To get them.

Jamie: No, that's good, but it was in the trenches. For a while, but it's also they.

Carol: Sound like an incredible team. Not just to keep you in line, but in terms of grabbing this industry. I am fascinated as a nonprofit administrator. M I was dealing with that credit card stuff all the time. Luckily, our computer person was really good at helping me work through that. Before that, I was with state service or the university. I didn't have to worry about you don't have to worry about those issues.

Jamie: No, it's amazing. And it's such a critical component of any size, business or not. We just kind of gloss over when they try and pick something that quick something and go and then they don't realize they're in the quicksand.

Carol: Right.

Jamie: Okay.

Carol: One of the hardest discussions is money. We have to always deal with how do you get the resources you need for your business? Mhm um, when you got this going, tell us what you discovered. Is it more difficult to get funding as a female owned business? As a female business owner? Um, were there funding issues because of the type of business you are creating? How do you secure those special loans? Did you have to do something, um, like, okay, my house is up for sale now, right?

Jamie: Yes. Here goes the car. Yeah. Well, I was fortunate. I had some savings set aside, so I had some things that I could work with. But yeah, I was very tight to begin with. I had people that joined me were very much on commission. Um, I had to put a lot of my funding towards, uh, registering the business with, like, Mastercard and Visa. You have to kind of do that to be certified. So that was a big cash outlay. Um, but yeah, there were a lot of resources. There were some small business opportunities. I was lucky. Maybe it was back then, um, a little bit of the female aspect, the women aspect help. But also, I think being in a smaller town, um, they were very much receptive to having somebody being in their small town that was going to start a business. That was because there weren't very many in that city. It was very much agricultural, very much tourism. So they're like, wow, a tech finance company that wants to be here. So they were very amenable to helping me as well, to get started, um, and to put a foundation to start the business with. So I felt like I was pretty fortunate. It was a bit arduous. You had to trade a lot of information. You kind of had to tap dance. And it was like a talent show, right? It's like, who's going to be the loudest? Who's going to stand up the most? And that's who walked away with funding and whatnot.

Carol: Well, and that listeners too. Don't forget that we always put a list of resources in our show notes for each of our podcasts. And we're going to include some of that information because Ohio does have some really good, um, groups that are here, uh, at your need to help you start your own business. And, um, the State of Ohio's small Business development centers. Those services are free, um, and they have the information on how to get financing. So you need to do your homework, know what you're doing, um, but utilize the resources that we have in our community.

Jamie: And I think I've been fortunate to meet with the Ohio Women's Coalition.

Carol: Right.

Jamie: Um, and they are amazing right off the bat. I think they got, uh, in there less than their first year. I think they got 8 million in funding from the governor for women's businesses. So yeah, that's amazing. I think, uh, that was one of my first entry points here. I thought, wow, these are some go getters here. I thought, right.

Brett: Our podcast focuses on the success of those 15 over. So when you look back on your own journey as a small business owner, did you see issues arise due to age not aging you, but your age, whatever it was at the time you felt pushback, uh, or success, or too young or too old? Did you see ageism? I guess you could say one way or the other.

Jamie: I think too, being a bit older. Uh, definitely when I started my business and I thought, let's hire people right out of the gate. College students, recent graduates. I think that again, and I don't want to hit out on a generation versus a generation thing, but that's where I ran into those issues with people that just sort of didn't understand what I felt was the traditional expectation. And work again, about five days at work. And like, we have to dress professionally and yes, you have to work a while before you ask for days off. So there was a little bit of confusion there for me about, uh, I thought, I know I'm older, but how much? I just thought there were some universal truths to starting a business that I thought were, um, still were across the board for all generations. And apparently I was a little bit surprised.

Brett: And some of that could have been just the mindset that, hey, this is my business.

Jamie: Right.

Brett: I'm putting in the time I expect you to do at least expecting five days. Yeah, I think there is that mindset, too, that if you don't own the business and you're working for someone, mhm, not everyone, but you're going to try to pull as much as you can.

Jamie: Right?

Brett: It's going to give me four days out of fifth day. I think there's a little bit of that. And they're totally different mindset when you own the business.

Jamie: Yes, I think that too. And I think I'd say another kind of maybe. And finally I'm getting hip with the social media and all of this. I am so, such a luddite with this. And thank God to Renee wherever you are listening. She has brought us into you can literally tell in our Instagram, like when loser Jamie was attempting to try to do this and then Renee came on, they're like, wow, this other crap, like branded and beautiful and colors and the logo was here and there was animation. And I was just like I didn't know how to like, how do you repost something? I was like I had no clue what was happening. So still to this day, I mean, unfortunately, my team laughs at me. Here I am. I've been running a payment processing company for almost ten years. I just started using Apple Pay like six months ago. Like the tap to pay. They're like, you know, we've offered this for years. I'm like, I know, but I still like to take my card out. And they're like, exactly. I'm the old lady that literally still goes to the bank and gets cash at the counter. I don't have an ATM card.

Carol: At least I have that.

Jamie: No, I have that. Oh, thanks, Carol.

Brett: Uh, you and I don't I've never really got an ATM card. I just haven't.

Jamie: I am literally that old lady that was like, I would like $200. And the woman at the counter rolls her eyes and like, we have an ATM. I'm like, do you have something? You're here. I'm here. Yeah, the line up.

Brett: Line up behind you.

Jamie: Is there no money back there or is it only in the ATM? M. I think I'm a luddite in that aspect. And so they love to tease me about that. They're like, we've offered contactless for literally like five years. And they literally before I went to on a trip, one of my first vacations in years, they had to show me. They're like, are you going to download this? And they're like, don't tell anyone. And now I'm obsessed with it. Now I'm like, well, that's a bad thing too. Now it's so easy to buy stuff. I'm like, sure, ping. And you're like, oh, amex when you look at it.

Carol: ATMs to me are magic.

Jamie: There's a fairy tale creature back there.

Carol: Just going and it's free money. I don't have to do anything for.

Jamie: My mom to that statement. There carol too. I don't know. I didn't have to do anything for it.

Carol: I just put my card in. It just pops out. It's magic.

Jamie: But all that hard work, you got to put it into the magical box. I didn't take it out. Uh, it's a little fairytale creature like Tinker Bells back there. And there's just like some dust comes out with your 20s. Have a wonderful day.

Brett: My joke in college, 5th, 3rd had the genie machines. I don't know if there's still so fifth thirds ATMs were called genie. And it wasn't the genie in the bottle or anything like that, but it was just the name. I don't have no idea why, but I would always it could have been. It could have been. I don't know. I don't recall. But I recall just saying, yeah, I got to go tickle Genie for some money. Everybody's looking at me going, that's a great idea.

Jamie: This just became one of those podcasts after Dark kind of things. I think I told you we had fun. There next to it. Please click. You are old enough to listen to this podcast.

Carol: Oh, my goodness.

Jamie: I love that phrase, though, because I don't know remember what it's called? Remember you had the vacuum, um, tubes at the ATM? Remember when you drop off some banks.

Brett: Still have those the branch of the credit union that I use, they've got my son's never saw them before. He's freshmen in college right now. And we go to the drivethru drink hobby. He goes, that's cool.

Jamie: It's like those tubes with the is there a hamster in there or you.

Brett: See, you go into the old stores that have not been rehabbed totally, and you see the tubes still exist.

Jamie: Yes.

Brett: And old, old buildings. You don't see them all that often, but it's like, that was cool.

Carol: Uh, one of our local banks built a new branch close to my house. And the way the property was situated, the ATM and the M drivethru couldn't be close to the building, so they built the pneumatic tubes underground. So the first time I go through, it got stuck. Of course, this isn't going to work, is it?

Brett: Wow.

Carol: Yeah, it was kind of a weird situation. It took me a while to go back and use that service.

Jamie: And Tinker Bell. Suffocated.

Brett: They have to fire hose, water it.

Jamie: Out, blow it out. No clue.

Carol: It wasn't me. It was the person in front of me.

Jamie: So, luckily, I'm thinking of almost, why is everything a movie reference for me? But like, uh, Willy Wonka when he gets stuck in the tube of chocolate. That's what happened.

Carol: Oh, my gosh. Yes.

Jamie: Uh, uh.

Carol: We have to go back.

Jamie: I'm sorry.

Carol: Okay, listeners, we are back on track now after I think.

Jamie: So fingers crossed.

Carol: Okay, Jamie, in our discussions with, uh, other owners that we've talked to on our podcasts, um, we always want to know how the business is doing. Are you seeing growth? How do you manage and plan for that growth? I think that's the bigger question.

Jamie: Yes, we've been very fortunate. We were always kind of growing by tips and dribs and drabs. But I'd say, actually, what's amazing to me is during the pandemic, we had an immense growth, which we were prepared we were lucky enough to stay open because we were kind of considered a very relevant, important thing being a financial services business. So we always were able to be in our office. We had to be able to have to go out in the field to take care of customers if there was a terminal issue. So we were fortunate to be up and running but, uh, what I couldn't believe was we were bracing ourselves for businesses to collapse in the Pandemic. I think we were fortunate. We lost maybe only two or three businesses had to close.

Brett: What business categories? You must have not had very many restaurants then.

Jamie: I had a lot.

Brett: Really?

Jamie: One of our biggest okay.

Brett: I would think it would be, of course.

Jamie: Oh, yeah, it's amazing.

Brett: But they survived, which is great.

Jamie: And very much it was because I would say a majority. They were multi generational, or they were family owned, and they just that's, again, this American ingenuity that I love, they figured it out. What do we have to do? I mean, they were bringing in family members that were working for free. They were bringing in retired family members. They were figuring out this curbside pickup. They were out there, and we would help them. They'd get a mobile thing or something. They do. They switched and put a menu online so people could order and pick up and just drive up. I mean, they figured out anyway, they shared space with other restaurants, so they all had one kitchen or something like that. I mean, they just figured it out. I was blown away. And, uh, what I loved was more than ever at that point, businesses are like, all right, we're in a crux here. The world, as I said, had to kind of stop spinning on its axis. And I couldn't believe how many businesses had the foresight to say, I'm going to revisit who I'm using. I'm going to figure out how to save money. I'm going to find out if there's new offerings. I'm going to find somebody else who maybe can partner with us. So we had quite an explosion over the Pandemic.

Brett: All that chaos.

Jamie: That's amazing.

Brett: They had that. They did.

Jamie: And we would do a bit of our, uh, here I am with my lack of social media. I mean, we would do outreach. We would do articles. We would say, hey, please come and talk to us. And we definitely got business from that. But I think it was also fortunate enough that current customers were telling other fellow businesses, hey, when anyone was looking to save a dime anywhere, like, hey, you can't go wrong. Go talk to Polypay. Figure out if they can work with something for you. So we had a true explosion over the Pandemic, which was definitely not expected. We were bracing for worst of the worst, trying to work with other customers and see if we could cut rates or fees. Our partners did that, and then we, in turn, did that, uh, for a while, just so people could kind of save whatever they could. But it was an amazing period of growth for us, truly.

Carol: There really are some silver linings coming out of covet. Um, not health wise, but business wise. Um, so hopefully this is going to help us turn around. Actually, maybe that's what's led us into our inflationary issues. Credit cards have been just they've been going pretty much wild.

Jamie: Yes. Oh, absolutely. And it's a shame. I think what did I read? Millennials. I think on average, they have about $400 in savings. And that's literally it. That's such a tight line to walk. I don't know how people operate that way.

Carol: But it's also the other, um, issue of when you were talking about the ATM machines. Millennials don't use cash. No, it's all card. Um, somebody was telling me they were in line behind someone, and the charge on their credit card was less than a dollar, and it took forever to make that happen.

Jamie: Um, and see, again, I think I'm strange. I like paper, I like writing, and I have cash. And that's, again, my team drives them nuts. I don't use venmo or any of those other things, and they do that back and forth. Oh, we bought you a sandwich. Uh, and that drives them nuts, because every time they'll buy a sandwich for me, if they're out or running out and I'll give them cash and like, what am I supposed to do with this? I'm like, I don't know, go to a strip club with it. Here's your watch.

Brett: She brought it back down a piece of 13.

Carol: I think we're going down farther at this point.

Jamie: Uh, I'm nothing if not consistent. I love it, but they don't know what to do with it. They see it as a burden, and I see it anytime anybody gives me cash, I'm like, oh, thanks. Like, there's that tangibility to me, because as much as I love credit cards, and obviously I tout them, to me, it's ether. Yes. It's attached to, like you said, the money that you have to do very little to get. But to me, at the end of the day, I just like that tactical component of it.

Carol: And I like those $1 bills flat and all going in the same direction.

Jamie: And I do that too. A weird thing, when I was younger, my dad used to have old style, like a money clip with his initials on it that I have now. And he used to have, like, a set of one for, like, tips or something. And my job was every weekend, any ones he had to renew, I had to iron them.

Brett: Oh my God.

Jamie: Ironed them. And I pressed them, and I actually starch on them in half so that they went in perfectly into his money.

Carol: Interesting.

Brett: You have burned one mhm.

Jamie: Oh, thank God. He probably chased me out of the house. No, I don't know. Literally, I was like, six years old. I had, like, one of those mini ironing boards there. I was like that. I loved it. That was my job. Handkerchief on Sundays. And his dollar bills, I ironed in half. Yes.

Carol: Interesting. I wonder if he came up with that just to give you a task.

Jamie: He was very much a cleanly misperson. So I think he just to this day, I loved Iron. Friends call me, they're like, Will you iron this? I'm like, sure. I love irony. Iron sheets, pillowcase.

Carol: Oh, my God, Tony.

Jamie: Yeah. So I don't know, maybe that just he knew that would instill a good skill in me. I think he was just being fussy. I don't know.

Carol: Ah, but it's a great memory.

Jamie: Yes, it is very visual. I can still see myself there.

Carol: I want you to tell me to listen.

Jamie: It was so cool. I thought here I was. Friends look at me when they're like, what? They're like, okay. Uh, good for you. Wild Sunday. Here I am.

Brett: Well, we all got together at a special event for women in central Ohio, um, here this past summer. It was a great networking opportunity for everyone. Tell us, how does networking support you in building your company? You talked about a little bit ago. Um, but I wanted to enhance that a little bit. Do you have ideas for listeners on how to use their network? All of us are excited about what we do. We could talk about it a nausea, but the person you're talking to may not care at all. And that's part of networking, is to kind of read faces and body language.

Jamie: I read the room.

Brett: So you can network efficiently?

Jamie: Yes.

Brett: What have you seen?

Jamie: Yes.

Brett: That works for you.

Jamie: And it was really difficult for me. I'm actually, at my core, an intense introvert. Intense introvert. Um I don't know. Based on all my other comments, it doesn't sound like it, but very much. I am one of those people, but I do get my energy from being around other people, which I love. So I don't know what hybrid that makes me, necessarily. But when I first started out, I thought, well, what do I do? I just started looking for chambers. I started looking for women's associations. I started to look for and I had to push my wallflower stuff out there and a couple of draining at.

Brett: The end of the day.

Jamie: Uh oh, my gosh. Yeah. I'm still, to this day, ah. Now I can understand when my dad came home from work, like, on Fridays, and he was just like he didn't want me to answer the don't answer the phone. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like that sounds grumpy. Now I get it. I get in the car. I'm like, someone's like, where do you want to go to dinner? I'm not making any more decisions to make.

Carol: Right?

Jamie: You pick. But I think you have to get out. I mean, you have to get out there. The first few events I went to, I just absolutely was glued to the wall. Like I was at high school dance or something like that. I could not do it. But you have to make yourself just sit there and listen. And I literally talk to anybody. And my joke was you go to an opening of an envelope. I mean, just go, because you literally don't know. I have met so many people that I thought I had an idea who I was going to meet at that event, and turns out it was someone else there who is in a completely different industry that happened to know somebody else that would be of a system like you, Ms. Carol, we disconnected as well. And then you were teaching me all about the nonprofit world that I was so desperate to learn about. And again, this is just another beautiful example. I've been fortunate enough to have probably 20 or 30 experiences over the past few, uh, years of something like that. And I think people look at a certain event and, oh, it's not worth it, or it's not. What's the point? And some of them are certainly better than others.

Carol: Sure.

Jamie: I think it all depends on, like, a David or someone for the chamber who is however you package the event, I think it has to be very specifically. It's always tied to the spirit of the head of those groups, and those people aren't engaged themselves. And I've run into some events, and actually, unfortunately, I will say a majority of the women's networking events that I have been into, actually, in the California side, are very much lacking severely, um, where it almost feels like it's just a lady's who lunch experience.

Carol: Oh, goodness.

Jamie: I'm giving you an hour and a half. I've given you $25 for my chicken salad. Um, can I please network? Can I please exchange cards? And I think a lot of people that go to those think it's just sort of a safe space. And I appreciate that, but I don't want to feel bad giving you my card and going back to the mail. This is female thing, Brett. When I go to a, uh, mostly men's networking event, cards are flying everywhere. People are talking. People are exchanging. What can I do? Who do you know? Can I help you? Can you help me? And unfortunately, I feel like it's still the way with the women. It's like, I don't want to talk. Why are you here? I appreciate you here for lunch. And sometimes they have great speakers and things like that, but I just don't understand it's. M much better in Columbus. There's some really great women's groups here that have blown all the other things I have found nationally out of the water. So I consider myself very lucky to have gotten into this environment. But I would have to say, on the whole, a lot of the women's networking groups nationally really still lack interesting. And maybe I'm just being more maybe because I'm older in the business now, it's just more evident to me being as an entrepreneur. But I just think you have an hour and a half to do this. I literally set goals for myself, I'm going to walk away with four cards.

Carol: Right.

Jamie: I'm going to do this. And I feel like women just sort of sit there and they look at their phone, and that was well, that's one thing.

Carol: When I would teach networking workshops, I would always say the best networkers were the best listeners. You can't go into a networking event and have your mind someplace else on your phone or whatever. That's not going to I mean, the expo was fortunate.

Jamie: That was an all day thing, which is what it so you could take your time warming up to the event. But how often do those come across? I mean, usually they're an hour and a half lunch. People have just got just enough time to go in and do what they want to do.

Carol: Right.

Jamie: And I just find or an after.

Brett: Hours event that if you're late, you miss out.

Jamie: Sometimes you're not bringing your best self forward. People are exhausted. Exactly. Maybe they don't want to talk. But at least fortunately, I'm at that point in my life where you can't insult me because I'll walk right up to your card. Hi. What do you do? And that's okay. Literally, you tell me to take a hike, I get it. But, uh, tell me about you, because I don't know, I'm still at that point in my life where I almost want to start that, or I feel like I have started that mentoring aspect, and it's like, well, maybe I can help you. Don't knock me to the side. Let me see if I can help you. Because I knew if I was that person, I would say, oh, please, here's my card. Can I, uh, give you five minutes? Reader's Digest version of what I'm looking.

Carol: For, for, uh, those listeners out there who are sitting there saying, well, they sound like they could go and talk to anybody. Because I'm an introvert also, but I'm also inherently nosy, and so I like to network to hear what other people are doing and to make those connections. But also, if you're having difficulty breaking through into networking, um, bring somebody with you.

Jamie: Yes.

Carol: So bring a buddy with you. Uh, we would have job fairs, and I would literally watch somebody walk in, look at all of those employers, and, uh, it's really a networking event. That's what you're doing at a job fair is trying to find who has jobs that match your skills. But I would watch people walk out. They would be scared to death. And so you just grab hold of them and go and introduce them to the first employer, and then they're okay. But you just bring somebody or come up with a strategy and a goal.

Jamie: Right. All right.

Brett: I'm like you. I, uh, really am an introvert, so I think most people kind of go, really? It pushes me. I'm now used to that push. I really am. Um, but I went to an after hours event a couple of weeks ago and I just wasn't there. I mean, mentally it's like, okay, stop by doing a couple of things. I actually walked away, but I saw somebody I knew that I hadn't talked in a while and wanted to reconnect on a project that they potentially wanted to do with me. It's like, turn around, Brett, turn around. At least say something to them, you catch up on their timetable. Commiserate, uh, with them empathize they're putting out a book. And I didn't realize there was such a paper shortage that those that are publishing books are on a huge delay, month delay because of paper. Mhm, so that was my end, is to ask how's that going? And just that empathy question kind of thing walked away, felt very good. It's like, okay, Bright, you did the right thing. You stayed five more minutes, even though.

Jamie: You just weren't feeling you made a.

Brett: Touch point, you made a touch point. But yeah, it's tough, it really is.

remember county, he had over: 6000

Carol: I think I finally got rid of my Rolodex only because I couldn't find the right size cards to put in it.

Jamie: Uh, no, I've got backups.

Carol: Well, mine's in an Excel spreadsheet.

Jamie: Okay. I have both. I do both worlds because I have.

Carol: To be able to print out those mailing labels for Christmas cards.

Jamie: Thank you. There you go. That's true.

Carol: So Jamie, um, you and I are the same on social media. Mhm, you're saying your folks have helped your Instagram immensely. Yeah. Well, my question to Brett is, what is Instagram? It's really good.

Brett: My answer is you don't need to go there, it doesn't make any difference.

Jamie: Yeah, uh, I don't know what a snapchat is. I haven't gone near this Tik tok thing. Who has this time? I don't understand. I know I'm old. I still read the paper every day, physically read the paper, so I can't. Understand all of this online stuff, and we're watching somebody dance or something. I go, what is this? What's happening?

Carol: We are successful at our business, even if we're not doing non stop social media. But social media has changed our lives.

Jamie: You have to make yourself you have to get out there. I don't like it, but unfortunately, as much as I won't in a minute, it does work. We, uh do we get people? So it's like, all right, I can't knock that down.

Carol: So that's my question to you. Which ones work? Which ones are you not seeing working as well for you or for new businesses, small businesses? Um, you hired somebody. At what point did you realize, oh, my gosh, I have got to get somebody in here who knows this?

Jamie: Uh, we had always had a great website. We were always updating it. I was very much here. The English major. Me. I was doing articles, I was writing things and kind of fun tongue in cheek spins on the industry. We alternate between serious stuff and fun stuff. And we were trying to post things, and I thought, yeah, that's good. But people again, this is an industry, this is a world where people just don't have attention span anymore. So you just have to expect that people aren't willing to read a, uh, one page article. And I go, okay, I have to figure that out. Uh, and we could just see we were watching our statistics, and we could just see people were only looking at X and Y and Z, and we were even looking around at very traditional businesses around us, even our customers. I was like, God, they have Instagram and they're posting. I was like, And I know they're older than me and they're doing this stuff. So I thought, okay, we have to figure this out. So we were hamstrung and doing it ourselves, Carol, like, every other month. My God, we thought it was great. We were posting something. And now, thanks to Renee, uh, I'll make sure I'll take pictures from today so that we can post stuff. And she makes sure we do two posts a week, two stories. I was like, I don't even know what that is. Okay? She just tells me, Take pictures. I'm like, okay. And we'll come up with a thing. So I didn't realize how powerful it was. But you have to be out there because you're quickly forgotten now. It's like, the attention span is so short now. And, uh, in an industry like ours, it's exciting to me. But I'm sure people would be half asleep if you're talking about payment processing. So you have to be funny about it, too, right? And quirky and mixing helpful with also doing trends and silly things and things like that. So I think instagram works well. I think you have to have a really good, robust website, which I think we do. And I think Facebook is on the way out. Ah, I think it's getting to be a bit of a stagnant platform. It's more of a share photos with your family kind of platform versus, um, an ever changing landscape.

Carol: Are you getting any mileage out of LinkedIn?

Jamie: No, we're not. And I get people ask me that a lot, and I thought, Am I doing something wrong? Because it's almost like everybody has to have a LinkedIn. It's almost like everyone has to have a driver's license or something. Like everybody. I told, oh, I have a LinkedIn. Initially, uh, the first year, we posted some things on there. Truly, our follower base hasn't grown, but I noticed I come up in a lot of searches now, so I don't know if that does us any good. Um, but no, we haven't posted in a very long time.

Carol: I almost see LinkedIn, um, becoming more of a research tool as opposed to an advertising tool. If I meet somebody, the first thing I'm doing is checking them on LinkedIn.

Jamie: I think it's just to get their background. Yeah. It's like looking at someone's CV.

Brett: That's how I use it, which is valuable in itself. It is fine.

Carol: It is so it may not be growing business per se, but it is growing awareness of who you are and.

Jamie: What I would like to admit that this is my shortcoming, but I use it as if I haven't seen someone in a while.

Carol: Yes.

Jamie: Or if they don't have a photo, I'm like, oh, damn it.

Brett: All right, well but as we talked about with the networking piece, that's your step in going, okay, I now know who she looks, uh, like.

Jamie: Yes.

Brett: I'll feel more comfortable going, Are you, Joe? Got to meet somebody for coffee. And going, I really want to know who this person is. Asking five people as everybody sitting solo at a table going, Joe.

Jamie: Yes, Joe.

Brett: That's an embarrassing moment.

Jamie: And it's not like you're dating where you're supposed to meet the woman that has the froze in the book or something like sitting there's no overt signals.

Carol: For who you're supposed to look for.

Jamie: And you find a lot of interaction point, or they went to a school, there's someone they follow that you like, that you follow as well. The woolly points, as they call the connect people.

Brett: Yeah, exactly. So you talked a lot about social media. It sounds as though you're doing a lot of branding and utilization of social media. Is that helping with recruiting and finding employees, vendors and such? Uh, that you're getting that feel good that, uh, I want to work with you because I'm seeing that.

Jamie: Yes. It's funny when it comes to kind of our permanent staff, uh, the gentleman that just most recently joined us in California was ironic. He had worked in the building behind us for, like, nine years, and we had been at this building for about five years, and he finally, uh, sent me an email through our inbox, and he was looking to leave his job, but we would see him. He would walk around the building. He was very active. And, uh, like, during lunch, he'd walk around the building and we'd see him. And it was funny. I finally started noticing that he was walking around the building and he reached out to us and he's like, I want to know what you do. I've seen your website. Like, I'm looking to do something else. So I think for the more senior or the full time people we have, Brett very much, I have to see you, touch you. I can't do kind of that employment dating thing where there's sort of like an indeed.com, I did in the beginning, and I think that led to a lot of people that were just talking to you and then just that you were one of 50 that they were talking to. I think I'd like to find our team based on, you know, somebody who knows us. There's sort of that six degrees of Kevin Bacon yes. Aspect of it. So you're a known entity, I think. Whereas the platform and our social media and getting our presence out there, that's where we're really growing our referral advocate team, because they don't have to give us a huge commitment, because that's typically they're just, uh, doing something part time for us, or they're just doing referrals and sending us leads. So I think everybody's comfortable in that relationship because it's not a full, uh, time commitment. They can kind of be wherever they want to be. We have them all over the US. So that's where I think our social media and, um, our online presence is really growing that program for us. But when it comes to our core team, like the people here or the people in California, somehow I have to have one or two nice touch points with those people before they can kind of come through the gate and chat with us.

Carol: Okay, so we told Jamie we were going to have fun today, and we were going to just have a conversation, which has been wonderful. One, um, of the things we always do is to ask our guests for their last words of wisdom. Um, things that maybe we didn't talk about or something. To reiterate, the audience, um, wants to know what it's like to be a small business owner out there.

Brett: More tips on ironing dollar bills? Yeah, I think we could explore that a little bit more.

Jamie: Starch is important, let me say. I might always suggest Rowenae. Uh, Rowena Iron. It's pricey, but worth it. It's like the Cadillac of irons. And I prefer Faultless Starch. Uh, not a fan in Iegra.

Carol: Okay.

Jamie: Prefer, um, faultless. Yes. Just so you know that's my ironing tips of the day.

Carol: I have a great ironing plate.

Jamie: Less starches, more. I think people saturate too much. And make sure that your plate is very clean the ironing plate.

Carol: Okay.

Jamie: A lot of people leave some water stains, things like that. So hopefully I've added some value there. There you go.

Carol: I told you, Brett's, a great editor.

Jamie: Wisdom never to be honest, I think to forgive me, to regroup here. Come on, James, be professional. Question. No, I asked the question, but you knew. I know you're going to go there.

Brett: It's great.

Jamie: Here I come. Um you know what I think the biggest thing I tell people is you really need to listen to your gut. I know when you start a business, a lot of friends and people come out of the woodwork and I know they care about you, and it's like, suddenly they have all this advice to offer. And I'm like, but you work for a huge company, too, and I know they want to help you and whatever. I think you really have to listen to yourself. I think you really have to listen to your gut. There have been times where I didn't because I thought, well, I don't know what I'm doing, but there's something innate as a human that you can just if you're still and you listen to your soul and your mind. Every time I've done that since then, I have not regretted it. So I know that sounds like a bit of a fuzzy piece of advice. I think that's it. I think, uh, you have to really listen to your gut, listen to your heart. I think a lot of entrepreneurs I talked to feel like they should have started a lot sooner. They're like, I'm late. And I go, no. Because, uh, frankly, looking back now at this, I wish I had started five years minimum earlier than I had. But I knew I didn't have the negative experiences, the bad environment, the bad bosses, the panic attacks, and knowing that I would never do X to somebody. Um, I think that all set me up for something. So I want all entrepreneurs or people to think you're right where you're supposed to be. And so we're not in charge here in the universe. I know that sounds a bit next thing, I'll be reading your tarot. Um, but I think that's really the thing. I think everybody's where they're supposed to be in this journey, in this universe. And I don't want people to think that they've missed out because they're getting started at that point in time for some reason, in the universe. And maybe they were just supposed to wait to have another experience, to meet another contact, to make a decision on what problem they were going to solve. I think that's a big thing. Yeah. You're not just not fully baked yet, so don't be upset.

Carol: Right.

Jamie: I think the other thing, the third thing I just have to say is I think you just have to get out there. You have to network, because I guarantee all of people I met you right, Carol. It's, uh, all because I, uh, went there for another reason. And then I also connected on a completely different front. And I think you have to realize that you may go to events and you're not going to get to the people you were thinking to. But, oh my gosh, you just met another ten people. That who knows where that can go, right?

Brett: Jamie, thanks for joining us today. Really appreciate the time, listeners. Uh, you can join, um, us online. And also don't forget to check the show notes. We'll have all that stuff on the website as well, too. Contact information resources. That website is looking forward our way.com, and we look forward to seeing hearing your feedback on this and any of our podcast episodes.

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