Tonight’s episode is about the legendary, movie pioneer, Robert Townsend, the actor, comedian, writer, and director behind Meteor Man, The Five Heartbeats, Hollywood Shuffle, Up Up and Away, B.A.P.S., The Mighty Quinn, and Little Richard (2000).

Our guest is Aishat Oduola-Owoo, a Nigerian immigrant and lifelong lover of Black film and television. Growing up in a semi-strict household, family-friendly shows like The Parent ‘Hood—her introduction to the brilliance of Robert Townsend—became formative touchstones. Inspired by stories her father shared about Cooley High and the cultural legacy it held for African men migrating to America, Aishat developed a deep curiosity for Black cinematic history. Through thoughtful conversation and cultural reflection, she explores Black storytelling, legacy, and joy—one frame at a time.

You can follow Aishat on https://www.instagram.com/sheknewnothing and also follow her podcast account (https://www.instagram.com/_skndeep) as well as listen in on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/skndeep/id1329428296

Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of tonight’s episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok & Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter (https://ourvoicesproject.us14.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=0975cb4063cade8f361060fda&id=81139d3995) for more information about what we do. We’ll be back with more episodes every Thursday with old and newly released movies that center Black, Brown, and Indigenous folks, general movie news, and interviews with film festival programmers/curators, film critics, and filmmakers!

Next week continues our series on Black filmmakers –their stories and contributions to cinema. We’re handing flowers to filmmakers that we should be talking about—some you may have heard of and some you may not have heard of. Either way, you won’t know until the show premieres so make sure you subscribe!

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

03:07 – Legend, Pioneer, Icon.

05:59 – Hollywood Shuffle & The Struggles Of Being a Black Working Actor

36:43 - Meteor Man: The Reluctant Hero, Being An Example, and The Love Of Community

01:04:28 – The Five Heartbeats: A Masterclass in Drama and Displaying Brotherhood

01:33:18 – B.A.P.S.: Sisterhood and the Power Behind Being Truly Seen

01:53:45 – Our Words for Robert Townsend

01:56:28 – Where You Can Follow & Support Aishat

01:58:01 - Outro

Mentioned in this episode:

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

It’s A Lot

Check out It’s A Lot on Lunchador! https://feeds.captivate.fm/itsalot/

Dialed In: A Coffee Podcast

Get Dialed In to the world of coffee with Aaron and Wade! Tastings, coffee news and opinion and more! https://dialedincoffee.captivate.fm

Hello pod.

We are wrapping up Black History Month, but we are going to continue throughout March to give our flowers to Black directors.

I'm your host, Jackie McGriff and if this is your first time listening to Representation in cinema, welcome.

We talk about the films that center Black Brown Indigenous voices as well as on the film industry itself.

I am not only your host, but also the founder, director and co producer of Our Voices Project, a production company that is committed to sharing the stories of of Black, Brown and Indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We are community engaged filmmakers who firmly believe that you cannot share the stories and lived experiences of Black Brown Indigenous peoples without being in community and in solidarity with them.

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And the little button to the little bell to get notified about new episodes as they drop.

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Rate us five stars and leave a comment to share your thoughts about today's episode and any any other of our episodes.

Tonight's episode is about the legendary movie pioneer Robert Townsend, the actor, comedian, writer and director behind Meteor man, the Five Heartbeats, Hollywood Shuffle, up and up and Away, baps, the Mighty Quinn and Little Richard.

Before I get into some background about Robert Townsend, I'm going to introduce you to our amazing guest joining us.

Aisha Oduola Owo is a Nigerian immigrant and lifelong lover of Black film and television.

Growing up in a semi strict household, family friendly shows like the Parenthood, her introduction to the brilliance of Robert Townsend became formative touchstones.

Inspired by stories of her father shared about Cooley High and the cultural legacy it held for African American men migrating to America, Aisha developed a deep curiosity for Black cinematic history.

Through thoughtful conversation and cultural reflection, she explores Black storytelling, legacy and joy one frame at a time.

Welcome to our podcast, Aisha.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Legend, pioneer, icon.

These aren't everyday terms that we typically throw around, but that we use in our case to to describe a respected artist who fought for opportunities to get our stories on screen and for the next generation of black filmmakers to take their place within the film industry.

If there was ever anyone to hold such a place in our society, that person is Robert Townsend.

Born and raised in the west side of Chicago in a poor neighborhood, his eyes were always glued to the TV screen.

Eventually, given the nickname TV Guide, he'd emulate the voices and remember the lines of the shows that air on primetime television.

While he wanted to be Bogard John Wayne and Ronald Coleman.

There was something else at the time that he noticed that he couldn't quite put a name to.

Whenever there was a black actor on screen, they're always portrayed as caricatures of themselves.

Images of enslaved Africans, pimps, gangsters and junkies constantly flashed across his screen.

It wasn't until he'd seen Sydney Poitier in a film that he'd experienced watching an actor who looked like him embody disposal, dignity.

Years later, he'd have an opportunity to ask Poitier as to how he got to have dignity.

Poitier responded with letting him know that he only chose projects with directors and writers who saw what was happening in Hollywood and wanted to do something about it.

It, of course, meant less work, but these images of Poitier would be the spark that got Townsend to New York City as a comedian and then eventually to LA as an actor.

He learned how to be a director from the many times he worked on set as an extra and would audition for roles that placed him right back into those caricatures he'd seen on screen as a child.

Using credit cards to fund his first film and planning with his writing partner, Keenan Ivory Wayans.

These first hand experiences gave us Hollywood Shuffle, a satirical film that addressed what it's like to be an up and coming black actor, the inner conflict between the pressure to find work and selling out, and a critique on the types of films that Hollywood deems worthy of acclaim.

For me, this is personal.

Filmmakers like myself and so many others stand on the shoulders of legends like Townsend.

You showed us that it was possible to become a director, that it was possible for us to be superheroes, to portray all of the beautiful and unique sides of us as the complex human beings that we are.

And you also opened the doors for actors and film workers that wouldn't have been there had it not been for you.

That is why, Robert Townsend, we are giving you your flowers.

Thank you so much for everything.

To our listeners and viewers, if you haven't already seen his films, we highly recommend that you do so.

And with that, let's dive into some of these films.

So just so you know, for our listeners or viewers, we are going to be getting to some spoilers.

Okay?

So if you have not watched these films before, listening, you have been warned.

All right, so getting into Hollywood Shuffle.

So, all right, I would like to know, because I definitely have some thoughts, right?

As always.

All right.

We wouldn't be here if I didn't have them, but I want to know your initial thoughts after watching Hollywood Shuffle.

Okay.

So, admittedly, it was my first time watching Hollywood Shuffle.

Okay.

And so when I watched it, I didn't necessarily have many expectations other than I felt like it was going to be a comedy.

When I finally watched it, I was like, oh, okay.

The representation that we talked about early on is such an interesting thing to see how important and how conviction plays in representation and how every actor has that form of conviction or should have that form of conviction on how you're representing yourself and how you represent your community and what does it.

But also the desire to survive is.

Is a.

Is a good.

Is a.

Is a play into the movie.

Yes.

One thing I appreciate about Robert Townsend is there are.

What.

There's stars studied.

It was just like, where are we getting all these people from?

Just people from different places in my childhood.

Different.

And I'm just like, yes, this was cast beautifully.

This was cast amazingly.

And I was just like, yeah, okay.

And he cast the same.

I was noticing a trend, too.

He tends to cast, like, the same people.

Yes.

In his films.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was like, wait, hang on.

That.

Right, right.

There was also this.

Yeah.

A thread.

A thread.

Which I love, because that's how you build community within your production.

You allow yourself to build with teams.

You know, same similar with the Wayans, similar with Spike Lee, similar with other black directors is we create with each other and we give each other opportunities.

Which I truly appreciated with Hollywood Shuffle was the see actors now that have done bigger and different things, and we see them now, we're like, yeah, no, definitely.

We see the origins of their start.

And it's.

It's great to kind of even witness that.

It's great to witness that.

Yeah.

And also for those, again, who are viewing or watching and viewing and listening, if you don't know what Hollywood Shuffle is, because, of course, I forgot to, like, say the.

I forgot to give y' all the synopsis.

But essentially, it's about an aspiring actor and hot dog stand employee, Bobby Taylor, played by Robert Townsend, who also directs the film.

Of course, because this is why we're here.

Catches the ire of his grandmother, played by Helen Martin, for auditioning for a role in the regrettably titled exploitation film Jive Time, Jimmy's Revenge.

When.

Yep.

Yes.

There's so much in this film.

When Tinseltown Studios casts Taylor in the title role, he has a series of conflicted dreams satirizing African American stereotypes in Hollywood and must reconcile his career goals with his desire to remain a positive role model for his little brother.

So you mentioned, like, early on, just like talking about your initial reactions to this film about the need for survival, there is this.

Yeah.

Reoccurring theme, you know, in the film, talking about survival because it's not only just him.

I mean, throughout the film you're seeing a ton of black actors, right, who are trying to get these same roles, right.

Knowing that they're bs, Right.

Knowing that they're stereotypical and yet it's like, it's work.

Like to them it is work.

It's not one of these, like, it's, you know, you have these jobs that, you know, we, we talk about being very dead end jobs.

Right?

There's nowhere to go.

And like with taking on a role.

Yes, it's, it's a terrible role and it's having us in stereotypical in these stereotypical, like AR scenarios.

Again.

Yeah, right.

But at the same time, it's also like to them, it's not necessarily a dead end because this could lead to the next thing and then the next thing.

The next big thing.

Right, the next big thing.

And also where they may not be playing a stereotype, there's always that hope, right, that it's going to be okay if I get this role.

There's going to be something bigger and it's going to be something bigger that puts me into stardom.

I mean, throughout, like, I love the, you know, when he's pretending to win the Oscar, there's that one instance where he's like, oh, I've won.

This is my, I didn't expect this.

This was my fifth Oscar.

I'm so, like, I'm so happy about this.

Yes, right, I know.

He's like, listen, no, it's not just one.

It's going to be multiple.

And like, and he's constantly imagining, you know, having on like this suit and having like the pretty women on his arms and walking down the red carpet and stuff, right?

It's this, it's this hope, right?

It's like, listen, I'm sick and tired of like working these dead end jobs.

I want something bigger for myself and I want something bigger for my family, you know, and so, you know, there is, there is the hope.

I, you know, I need to do this.

It's a, it's a terrible, terrible role.

But it's going to propel me to the, to the next thing.

Right?

Which is ironic.

This is ironic.

And so like.

Yeah, so when you're watching this film and I mean, it's, it's, it's of course supposed to be a comedy and I want to get your thoughts around, though.

Like, how.

Because when I was watching this film, I'm also just, like, as funny as many of, like, much of the film is.

It's also very disturbing.

It's very disturbing.

I wanted to get your thoughts around that.

He goes there.

He goes there.

I think there was so many.

I think when we see, like, exploitation movies, it was like an exploitation movie within the exploitation movie, doing the.

Doing like, a spoof of what has been done before.

So we have these slave tropes, we have the gangster tropes, we have the promiscuous black woman, the Jezebel trope, all of these tropes that we've seen.

And I love the breakout where he breaks the fourth wall and he's kind of like, giving us a piece of what's going on in his head because he's being imaginative.

And I think what was so wild about it was just the fact that although we have these ideas of.

I think it was the casting agent, the.

The director, and I think of the producer, the three white people in there, and the whole desire for them to tell these very black actors to be more black.

So blacken it up a little bit.

A little bit more.

Should we just be a little bit more black?

Like the favorite word.

Can you be more sassy?

Sassy.

Urban.

That's always the thing.

Can you be more urban, please?

We know what you mean.

We know what you mean.

Right?

And even still, it's like, this is my lived experience.

Like.

Like, I don't.

Right.

It's crazy.

And it's.

Which was crazy because the live experience was actually very calm.

Right.

When he.

When he first comes in, he's coming out of his neighborhood.

Beautiful neighborhood.

People with manners.

People who are real people.

Neighborhood people.

There's no.

There's no character of the blackness.

It's to some extent, a little boring, a little bit.

Right.

Mundane.

Every day, black people just trying to do their thing.

Exactly right.

And then you get this opportunity and you practice this with your little brother.

And that's the thing.

That was the beginning scene.

The beginning scene of him just going over the lines with his brother.

Brother.

And just like, yeah, you know, it's so wild.

It's just like you're.

It's because your little brother's so proud of you.

I'm an older sibling.

I'm the oldest sibling.

First grandchild, first.

So there's a huge responsibility in terms of how you present yourself.

And that exchange is just like, I'm proud of you for going after your dreams.

But at what cost?

But at what cost?

At what cost?

And I'm constantly thinking, too, about, like, how I'll.

I mean, in.

In.

In.

In the modern day now.

Like, I'll.

I'll see these actors who.

I know that it's survival, right?

Like, this is a job that's paying.

Right.

It's paying the bills, but at the same time, it's at what cost?

At what cost are you playing that stereotypical role?

Because now that's something else to add on the millions of different images, right.

And footage that we have of.

Of black folks in these caricatures that folks who may not have.

May not be in proximity, right, With.

With.

With black folks think that this is who we are.

The norm.

Like, that is the norm.

And I'm just going, okay, we're still.

And, like, this is not who we are.

I'm like.

And I'd have to be like, who wrote this?

Like, who's behind the camera?

Right?

And so, yeah, like, when.

When I'm thinking about, especially, you hit the nail right on the head.

And you.

I mean, you have been like, throughout this entire thing so far, it's only been not even 15 minutes in.

Girl.

I'm just like, yes.

All of this is like him practicing these lines with his younger brother.

Yeah, that what hit me.

Yeah.

I think you hit the nail right on the head as far as, like, at least for me, on pinpointing exactly.

You know, what I found so disturbing about it is because, like.

Like, I'm used to seeing the tropes, right.

And it being so blatant and so obvious.

Right.

Of course, is the point.

Right.

But, like.

But like, his little brother, like, looking up to him and, like, cheering him on and everything.

Yeah.

Seeing him, like, play this role, like, you kind of see live.

Yes, live, live.

And you're seeing a little bit of that innocence, like, just kind of being, like, kind of, like, snuffed out of him.

He's like, the disappointment, even the disappointment,

the realization, the understanding of.

Because, yeah, we went over the lines.

But to actually see it, see.

Yeah.

To see it is.

Is a different thing because we.

We can hear something, we can even slightly participate in something until we actually realize our participation in it.

And it's.

And I. I love the.

The Just the kind of small nuances of his grandmother, who's also an actress.

Right.

Yeah.

You know, and who's also probably propelled to play Some type of mammy role in some shape or form, because those were the opportunities that was afforded.

So understanding that, and, like, even I, that created this pathway for you, didn't want you to have to walk the same walk that I had to for you to even be here, to even conceive the idea of doing it.

And now you're in a position to create a new pathway and you choose this.

Yes.

Yeah.

This is not what I set up for you.

Like, this is not the path that I wanted you to go down.

Like, you were supposed to be better.

You're supposed to be better than this.

Yeah.

And I.

And I'm sitting there going, oh.

And, you know, and it's.

It's.

It's so good that you bring that up, because I find I found myself going in between, like, the two of them and really conflicted, which I, you know, on the surface, I would have said I definitely am the grandmother, like, sitting there going, are you for real right now?

Like, there's, There's.

There's.

There's so many other options.

Like, what are we doing?

But, like, while I'm watching this and I'm seeing him, like, kind of like, battle that, like, it's a job.

But this is also.

Like, this.

Is this also doing a disservice to my people.

Like, this is.

But it's also my dream.

But this is also my dream.

And I'm like, if I don't take this, like, is there going to be another option for me?

And so, like, seeing him go through that, but then also her coming in and saying, this is not.

This is not the life that I wanted for you.

Right.

Him going between that, I'm like, oh, my God.

So I'm like.

I'm like, I'm rooting for him.

But also, I'm like, no, but I also don't want you to, like, it shouldn't have to be this role that you take, right?

Should.

There has to be another option.

There has to be another option.

But the scary thing is there's not always that many options.

And also, if you don't take it, there's someone else ready to get it.

Listen, that one dude.

That one.

First of all, first of all, oh, gosh, what's the actor's name?

Because he's also the.

Okay.

Because I, having watched Meteor growing up with Meteor Man.

Right, okay.

Right.

The minute.

The minute this man comes on screen, I go, golden Lords.

Like, I.

He's been a bad dude, the golden Lord.

And see, And I mean, I'm not even going to step too much into the village, like the.

The villainizing roles and then the light skin roles and how the need that part to be better, to be the worst.

Oh, my God.

And how that plays a part and how that does play a part to the point where he was conniving even during the.

The auditions, trying to, like, you know,

because I'm thinking we got somebody who, who is like.

I mean, I'm like, first of all, I'm like, yeah, what you're.

All of.

What you're saying is very real.

He's going, this is.

This is.

And then I'm going, but you're there too, sir.

So what?

Trying to get the same role.

I'm trying to get the same.

And then, of course.

And then it's revealed.

Like, he's trying to get this.

And I'm like, okay, see, like.

And I'm like, is he trying to, like, make sure that he gets into his head and, like, trying to get into his head and, you know, so that he has a better shot or whatever?

And then, of course, when he, you know, when.

When Robert towns his character, when he.

Bobby, when he eventually decides to, you know, remove himself from that role, then this man comes in and is like, oh, I can do it.

I can do it.

I'm like, okay, okay.

That's that.

That's that truck and jive.

That's that truck and job.

That's that checking job.

That's that I'm willing.

And that's the moral thing about it.

That, that.

That moral idea is that just because you come to a realization that this may not be good doesn't mean that someone is not willing to jump into the place of being deplorable.

There's always someone willing.

There's always someone willing to come in and.

And take that spot, especially if it gives them notoriety, especially if they.

Pushes them to the next step the next day, even at the demise of.

Of the group, you know, and so I.

It's.

It's always so interesting to see just like, how competitive it is to be evil, to be grimy.

Yes.

That's the thing.

It's about this industry.

And he, like Townsend does.

I mean, what an incredible.

What an incredible talent, too.

Like, bring all of that to the surface, right?

Like, we, like.

I'm like, reflecting on, you know, how.

And it's a satire.

Like, so it's.

So everything is going to be over the top and ridiculous.

But then I'm like, is it really over the top?

Is it really that ridiculous?

Right?

Like, yeah, I'm Constantly.

Constantly reflecting on just, again, how we.

How we're constantly seeing these tropes that are.

That are.

That they're played out, like, in, you know, in all these different roles and all these different films and everything.

And for Townsend to speak to so much, to speak to the type of roles, to speak to the type of stories that they're interested.

The black acting school.

That was hilarious.

The black acting school.

The.

That in the.

In the beginning was.

Was insane.

Like, oh, my goodness,

what it is.

And it.

I mean, but, you know, it is.

It is.

It is wild to me, like, living.

I live in.

I live in Atlanta and just there's so many, like, you know, acting classes, class audits and stuff, and just so kind of seeing some of the.

Some of.

It's like, it is kind of like that sometimes where it's just like, you know, it's like, let's teach you how to give a maternal.

A maternal vibe to your conversation or.

Or how do we.

But then it's like, it borders the line.

Now there are some amazing acting teachers and coaches and people who truly care about the art, right?

But then there's people.

There's people that want to play, baby.

They play in your phase.

They play in your phase.

And it kind of is just like, why am I practicing how to be a.

Someone who struggles with addiction?

And like, why am I.

Why is this the first thing we're practicing?

Why are we doing self tapes?

Hello.

That is cr.

So, all right.

I just need, like, I'm sitting here and I'm going.

So now we have.

Because it's also.

There's.

There's so much truth in, like, what he puts.

I just.

It's again, I feel like Hollywood Shuffle should be required viewing.

Like, yeah, just.

Just.

Just studying, like, media literacy, right?

That.

That this.

This movie should be a part of that curriculum.

Because the thing is, is, like, so we're seeing them, like, act out like this, like.

Like escape, right, from slavery.

The slavery watch.

Yeah, this.

The slavery movie, right?

And so he's got, like, there's the two women, and then there's the white woman who comes along who's also in love, right?

I'm putting.

For anyone listening, I'm putting this in quotes.

Like, you know, who's in love, right, With.

With this white woman.

And so he runs off with her and leaves the two black women behind.

Then what really got me, what really, like, hit me that.

I mean, it was all hitting me, right?

And then to put the nail in the coffin, he.

He then acts like, step and for those of you who don't know, Step was a black actor, like back during the.

Again, I'm putting this in quotes, the golden age of Hollywood.

He would act out these.

He would, he would be put in these roles or put himself in these roles where he's playing the very illiterate, very unintelligent, the, the, the.

The lazadase lazy, like sort of black person.

Right?

The stereotype that black people are late or.

No, I don't know.

We, we built this country.

But, you know, that's another conversation for another day.

Right?

But.

But he would, he would play these roles and so, so often even back then, he would be criticized, right, by the, by the black community because the rest of us are like, this is not who we are.

But he would continuously play all these roles.

And so to see him kind of giving this reference to Step and fetch it.

Yeah, just like, like that, that kind of like when I say disturbing again, not only is he like, like, like, like acting out like some of these things and of course, like, this is all in his, his head, right?

But like, not only is it the reality of like, him, like trying to go for like these roles or going for these roles or having these roles is also.

And in front of his brother, but also like the reference to real life, not just in, you know, obviously the satire, but then also again, paying that reference, giving that reference rather to someone who was very much a reality, a reality and playing and playing these kinds of parts.

And yeah, that just.

That hit me.

I.

And what did, what did that do for you?

That, that.

Because the black, because the black acting school also too, there's like, there's, there's.

There's the Step and fetch it reference.

There's the slavery movie.

And then, right, they.

They yell cut.

And he has a full.

I think he's attempting a British accent

because, you know, the conversation about black British actors and, and it's crazy because some people believe that like, people.

This is very specific, you know.

Oh yeah, because there is there to specify because there is a beauty in distinction.

Right?

And unfortunately, there are people who are in the diaspora who are not black American who are willing to kind of take the roles of, and represent black Americans, but in a, in a way that is not truly representative of its goodness.

And we, and we find that it's easier for them to play those roles because the morality of it can be sometimes detached.

Yeah.

I hate to do it.

Because this is, because this is a, this is a point of contention across the, across.

I don't want to.

I don't want to participate in the Diaspora wars.

No, I know.

I don't either.

I don't either.

But, like.

But if we're going to be.

If we're going to be real about

it, if we're going to be.

Going to be honest.

Yes, if we're going to be honest.

There is, I think, lived experience.

Yeah.

Is.

Is very important.

And unfortunately, there's a different kind of lived experience elsewhere outside of America.

And it's easy to perform than to.

That's a word.

Okay, That's a word.

Yes.

Because I want to say, and I don't know if there's any black Brits that are listening and are watching this, but I will just say that would be like.

It would be like a black American portraying someone going through the.

The Windrush era.

Yes.

Right.

So having to go from, like, Jamaica.

Jamaica, even Africa, Trinidad.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And talk and, And.

And playing that role.

Because again, it's something that we.

Unless you're someone with that lived experience.

Yeah.

You won't actually.

You won't fully grasp, like, what that means to us.

And then so to see you perform that, again, it's.

You're very detached.

You're detached from what that very real lived experience is.

Right.

Right.

And you can pull.

You can pull from certain things, but it takes integrity to.

To truly either one, give the role to someone who is willing to actually who has lived that role.

But also if you can't, if you're not in the position to.

Right.

Because we're not as talent, you're not always permitted to make those type of executive decisions.

Copy.

Then do the work to make sure that you are surrounding yourself with people who can give you the feedback, who can give you the honesty, who can give you the perspective that is going to help you drive that story and honor that story.

Because I think it is about honor.

And sometimes for me, and mind you, I'm Nigerian.

I'm sorry to say it, but I'm Nigerian.

And I would feel some type of way.

I personally would feel some type of way if somebody was like.

If a certain actor from somewhere else was just like, you know what I'm about to play Falakuti.

Huh?

You want to play for La Coutine?

You don't know.

You don't know his vibe.

You don't get his.

You don't get how he moves.

You know what I'm saying?

And I can only imagine just seeing.

It's like you.

You hear your people, but you don't See your people type John.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Even though our people.

But you don't.

You don't.

Is.

Is different peoples.

Yeah, yeah.

Different parts of the family.

Hold on, hold on.

Just you.

You said John, and I've only heard Philly people.

Oh, for Philly.

Philly John.

Yeah, well, you know,

I was like, I was like, wait a minute, hold on, hold on.

And mind you, I'm not, you know, I'm not, I'm not from Philly, but I've heard philly people, specifically St. John.

Yeah.

They say.

Yeah.

So I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

I grew up in New York.

My sister went to school in Philly, and I was always in Philly.

Okay, all right.

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh, my goodness.

Oh, my goodness.

Was there.

And so.

And I appreciate you also like, having that, like giving us that perspective and also like saying it.

And I think.

And I don't think anyone, you know, is going to come for us as part of, like, contributing to the diaspora wars, because we're not about that.

We're not.

We're not.

We're unity.

But.

But it's also a very, It's a very real sentiment and I think that's something that is worth having a nuanced conversation about.

And so.

No, I appreciate that.

Now, with this film, was there anything that, like, any more takeaways just in terms of like, either the theme or, or maybe technical aspect or anything else that you really wanted to express about this film?

Honestly, it's, it's.

I'm just, I'm this.

I'm starting to see a thread with Robert Townsend is just the, the desire to dream past your reality and, and, and the cost of it.

And, and the end.

The, and the integrity and power that comes with being honorable.

And the way he does it is not in a beat you in the head type way, but that's what I love is the comedy aspect of it.

It's just the fact that, yeah, we can kiki and have a good har har, but don't forget the message.

Don't forget that you do have a choice even when things feel limited.

And doing nothing is also a choice.

Yes, yes, for sure.

One more thing before we move on to our next film.

I also have to point out the conversation in the salon that he has with his father was everything like.

Yeah, as.

As many, you know, not as many more of like a lack.

Right.

Or the, the, the trope.

One of the stereotypes.

Right.

Is like the father not being an important or not being like someone who is Aware here.

Present.

Right present.

Or someone who has like, who is really someone he can look up to is, you know, someone he can take advice from and follow through with.

You know, his father telling him like to go after his dreams.

That's what, that's what made me.

That's.

That's what I started to think of when you started to mention.

To dream bigger.

Right.

You know, and everything.

That's.

That's very much in.

In theme with what his father was trying to tell him.

And you know, giving the example of, you know, I've let so many people tell me what I couldn't do that I started to believe them.

As an artist, that hit me so hard, you know, but you know, at the end of the day, as we see it in the film, and I really did appreciate, you know, this, this film's ending.

There's always a job at the post office and the way that it's done right.

It's like acting in a commercial for the post office.

I just loved that.

That's such a like happy camp to like.

Exactly, exactly.

I'm like, oh.

And I'm like.

And I hope he goes on to do more.

To do more.

To do better, you know, things, you know, greater things.

Rather not necessarily better, just greater.

But yes, no, I really did appreciate this film.

Yeah.

Like I said, it should be required viewing.

Yes, yes.

You know, for.

Especially for those studying media and ethics and ethics.

Media and ethics.

Media and.

Yes, please.

Oh my God, yes.

Maybe someone should sit down.

You know, the writer and director behind One Battle after Another.

That film is going to continue to catch strays.

Okay.

For me, just.

Anyway, before it's gonna.

I'm gonna move on before I get.

Not that I'm gonna.

I.

There's.

Girl, there's so much I can say about that.

But we are going to move on to Meteor Man.

So a brief.

So a short synopsis.

So for Meteor man, this is a film that I grew up on.

I grew up.

When I tell you I wore out that VHS tape, I meant that thing.

So Meteor man is about an unassuming teacher, Jefferson Reed, played by Robert Townsend, who lives and works in an urban area plagued by a tough gang.

When a falling meteor hits Jefferson, he discovers that he has gained numerous superpowers.

Encouraged by his father and mother, Jefferson sets out somewhat awkwardly to become a crime fighting hero.

While he manages to improve his community, he finds out that his powers aren't limitless, making his efforts more challenging.

So Meteor man, oh my God, first of all, was obsessed with this film.

Was Obsessed with this film growing up.

I know it like the back.

Okay.

Of my hand.

It is so.

It is so ingrained.

Like, I didn't need to.

I, I, I watched it recently, but, like, not, like, not within the past couple of weeks.

It was maybe like back in December or something.

Or, like, I, like, I was like, oh, you know what?

How does this, how does this film feel now as an adult?

So this is watching it as a kid, right?

As watching it as a kid, I'm like, oh, my God, A superhero and he's fighting crime, right?

And I don't necessarily know if I, like, connect.

Like, like, was like, it's a black superhero.

It was just like, like, so, like, like something different, some.

Something new and seeing someone, like, just like, helping out his neighborhood.

Right?

It wasn't like him going all over the world.

Right.

I grew up being a very.

A huge, huge.

Still am to this day, a huge Superman fan.

So to see Meteor man was this, like, was like something different.

It was.

And it was awesome for us.

Like I said, I wore that VHS tape out, okay?

I was obsessed.

So I wanted to get.

Because this is your.

I didn't grow up on Meteor Man.

And so when even just the ABC boys being in there and just like.

And mind you, my name is Aisha, so I've been serenaded my whole life from people saying Aisha.

And I had to learn, where did this come from?

Whose song is this?

And why are people singing this to me?

And then I get this.

Find out who the ABC boys are.

Then I see just.

And then you see them in the movies and you see how their small roles.

Not small, but very big roles in a sense, because they are a piece of the thread when it comes to the.

The makings of a Y N. Right.

The makings.

How.

How certain decisions can be made, even at early ages.

But yeah, I was.

I was actually.

I was very.

My initial thought about the movie was, wow.

Because he, the main character, didn't necessarily.

Wasn't about saving the community.

It wasn't about.

He wasn't necessarily someone who.

If there was a problem, he felt it was his responsibility to fix it.

It was just.

It was somebody else double it and give it to somebody else.

It's not my.

It's not my thing.

His dad was more so.

I'm not afraid.

Afraid of it.

I'm not willing to whatever.

But he himself.

He himself was not.

There was trepidation in being responsible.

It was trepidation in being to.

To actually want to.

To assist.

And so, you know, as I'm watching this, I'm just like, okay, I'm seeing it.

And now, mind you, I may have not fully watched it when I'm growing up, but I would always see glimpse and I will always see, like, small, Small, like small moments, especially with the Eddie Griffin, because we.

We love.

We love Eddie.

That's the Eddie I recognize.

Oh, my goodness.

He's funny in this film.

And I feel like.

I think it gives us this.

Like,

it's.

There's so much.

There's so much.

But initially my thoughts were, wow, this.

It comes with comedy and it comes with jokes, but it also comes with.

With.

With this push for responsibility.

It is not.

Nobody's going to save us but ourselves, but ourselves.

And.

And with.

With great power comes what.

Great responsibility.

Great responsibility.

And that in this movie truly embodies that.

Even if the power that is given to you is not something that was naturally innate.

Yes, that is very much it.

Because it is very.

It is.

And it just like I was like super geeks like Washington as an adult, seeing the parents, like, the mom is like the different costumes.

Like, the costume and everything.

And everything.

I love the Polaroid one.

The Polaroid one.

You've been caught.

Yes, right.

My God, that was crazy.

I'm like, listen, don't.

She's.

They're giving us.

I'm saying, I'm Madam Stark.

He's giving room.

The original Iron Man.

The original.

The original.

The OG Yes.

But yeah, and I.

And I really love that there is this.

And in his films, like, we'll see this throughout, you know, our.

Our talk.

But like, supportive, like having supportive parents, like, supportive parents and like, whatever you're handed.

Right?

And.

And like, that's what I.

That's what I, I love seeing.

Right?

That's what so many of us know is something that is also not enough pushed right in.

In film.

And so to see it again, right?

They are more excited than he is.

And of course, obviously, because, like, what he's dealing with is like, I just want play my bass, right?

To like, and talk to girls.

I just want to play my base and right.

Talk to girl.

Like, talk to women.

Like, I just want to.

I want to have a girlfriend.

I want to have, like, I just want to be able to continue in, like, you know, teaching, like, because he's trying to live a normal life.

He said, run away.

You don't need to fight.

Yes, you don't need to fight.

You don't need to fight.

She's.

I love her so much.

I love her so Much.

That's great.

Oh, my gosh.

She's.

I'm like, I look at her and go, you know what?

Like, I want to have.

When I get older, I want to have the same energy.

I want to have the same energy.

Just like she does not give.

She gives.

0f.

She's like, she is exactly who she is and we appreciate her for and is.

But okay, so.

Yeah, no, I love seeing that montage.

I loved and I love again, like, you bringing up like, the reluctancy, like in.

In.

In, you know, first of all, being.

Being given these powers.

And also, mind you, in a very violent way.

In a very violent.

Like, it's not.

Like, it's not something like, again, because you mentioned, you know, where comes great power comes.

So Spider man.

Right, right.

Gets bitten by a spider.

Right?

Okay.

This man is like running down an alleyway and is this.

This giant meteor and it's.

And the way that it's inside of him body.

They said it's not on you,

it's in you for real.

Like, it's a part of you now.

Yeah, it's just you.

And like, it's.

That's a very violent.

I mean, this man is like, like in the house, mind you.

He was already running away.

He was already, already running away.

And now you got this giant meteor headed straight for you.

Like, it has a vendetta, like, and there's nowhere for him to go.

And so it's a.

The way in which he's receiving these powers.

Can we not.

You get in here preaching.

Oh, my gosh.

When purpose.

Listen and let the church say.

For the Muslims.

I mean, I mean, here.

Yeah, yeah, There you go.

There you go.

Yes.

Because it is Ramadan, okay?

Ramadan.

Mubarak.

Yes.

So, okay, this can't take us anywhere.

Can't take us anywhere.

Jesus gracious.

Okay, so.

But it was violent.

It was violent.

It was violent.

It was violent from the alley.

It was intense.

It was intense.

Was.

It was.

But I think one thing that I saw about that even, just like it was.

It was even when he was getting transported to the.

To the hospital, you see outside, his family and neighborhood still shows up.

They still show up.

There's still a concern.

You're still ours.

You know, we have to.

Not only do we have to worry about gang members, we have to worry about supernatural things happening to you.

Huh?

Right?

Yes.

Right.

And it's the fact that so many

people know now that mama was a snitch.

Okay.

His mama, she had no truth to me.

Like, first of all, None.

None whatsoever.

But, like, usually is.

She was like.

She's like, and my baby.

My baby got power.

So if you need help.

But you got hit by meteor, okay?

So if y' all call my baby.

That's my baby.

That's my baby.

Right?

I'm just like, ma', am, he's got powers.

What?

They didn't.

They didn't read the superhero guidelines, the user book, the manual.

They didn't read it.

I mean, they didn't read it.

Not even for 30 seconds.

I'm telling everybody.

No.

And then she's telling him.

Yeah, because then she's like, telling them about, oh, hey, this person needs, you know, you know, help with this.

And.

And, like, she is basically like, no.

Yes.

No, we're going to.

Okay, so you have these powers.

We're going to get you a suit.

We're gonna, you know, literally the road

manager and stage manager.

For real.

For real.

She's like, all right, I got this.

I got this.

I got this.

She is.

She is.

The manual.

She made the manual.

She.

She's the one that's like, you know, we don't need to be secretive about this.

No, no, we.

This is.

This is how we're going to go about it.

Love that.

Okay.

Also, I. Oh, this makes me laugh every time.

We got to talk about the Golden Lord.

The Golden Lord, The Golden Lords.

The Golden Lords, the Baby Lords.

They were sharp, though.

What are we.

They were sharp.

They were sharp, color coordinated.

They make Brazil very happy.

They had everything.

Everything was on point.

You know what I'm saying?

Exactly.

Exactly.

I'm like, I have never seen a group that was so.

A gang that was like.

So just again, very, very precise, militant, put together, like.

Okay, yes.

That's what I'm saying.

And I'm like.

I'm like, oh, this is.

This is very interesting.

I also just thought.

I was like, this is a very.

This look is very much a choice.

It's very much a choice.

It's.

Yeah.

And I don't know how I feel about that choice even today, because I just remember one.

It's a distinction.

They were like, we had to be different.

So we're like, we're going to be different.

That's okay.

Also, Don Cheadle.

Who knew he could be blonde?

Don Cheadle.

Isn't he like.

I'm going.

I'm like, oh, my.

Oh, my God.

That's really.

Right.

I mean, there's so.

There's a bunch.

There's so many people in this movie.

Mufasa, can we.

James Earl Jones.

Mufasa.

Like, James Earl Jones.

Right.

Daddy Kane.

Like, you have Luther Vandross.

That's right.

He.

He also makes an appearance.

Oh, my God.

Like, this is so many.

And that one, too.

Like, all the people.

Oh, my God.

Even Bill Cosby playing an entire hotel.

Me off guard, paying entire hotel Simbad was.

I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, Bill.

Bill Cosby.

Yes.

He was in there.

And just.

Just.

It's a disappointment, which is a For real disappointment.

So, like, I. Yeah, there's a man.

Yeah, he really stacked that cast with, like.

And that movie was in theaters.

That movies was in theaters.

93.

That was.

That was.

And it was a $20 million budget.

Like, that was a $20 million production.

And unfortunately, in the.

In the box office, it didn't do as well as the other movies that were coming out.

But when I looked at the other movies that were coming out, yeah, these were.

These were bangers.

These were.

These.

It was.

It was.

It just wasn't fair.

It just.

It just wasn't fair.

It just.

It just wasn't fair.

But one of the movies was.

What did I see that was on there?

Tank.

I mentioned if you can't remember the names.

There was a few.

There was a few.

Like, I think December.

There was a few movies that came out.

Do a little research, make sure I saw that.

Like, one of the things that I really appreciated was that I think there was this scene where Meteor man, you know, he finally gets his, you know, powers and whatnot, and he's actually utilizing some of his powers.

And there is this kind of turf war.

Not turf war, but there's this battle between the police and what is assumed to be the Crips and the Bloods, and they're, like, going against each other in some shape and form.

And I think Cypress Hill was one of the.

The group.

Cypress Hill was one of the gang leaders of those.

I think one of the Crips or the Bloods or whatnot.

This.

They assume they was wearing the blue and they was wearing a red, but we don't know what the name of them were.

But it was so interesting to see how.

Because, yes, in one stance, we need police, but the other stance, we need community leaders.

Unfortunately, the community leaders or the people that are leading the community are gang members.

And how do we allow the gang members to still assist with the community and.

And what truly makes it.

And who are they fighting against and what are they fighting for?

And this idea of neighborhood and this idea of, you Know, and then you got this, this.

The.

There's.

There's gangs, there's.

There's drug dealers, there's all these other entities of, like, corruption and.

And destruction and just beef.

And it's just like.

It's not useful, but it's also.

It's not useful, but it is very active.

It's very active.

Yeah, there's.

There's.

Oh, there's so much of what you said, because that's some of the things that I found myself, like, going back and forth about and like, having.

Being in conflict with because, well, one.

One, though, that I was like, again, there's like, so many.

There's so many different things that you just hit.

So there's.

We're not only seeing, like, again, kind of like the.

The.

The.

The conflict between, like, the rival gangs and stuff.

What we're also seeing, though, is like, what's behind the machine lords, right?

So it's like the machine like, we're seeing.

But you have a ball boss.

You have a boss that you answer to, right?

And so, like, I loved that we got to see that.

Which again, is its own commentary.

But then also, too, what I found myself conflicting with and it's.

This is something that they bring up during the neighborhood meeting, right?

Is like working with the police in order to.

Right.

Get the gangs out.

And that's where I.

That's.

That's where I was really struggling with, because I am, like, in this.

In the society where we're constantly seeing police brutality and everything, there.

There were talks even, like, back.

I remember there's a lot of conversation around this with Black Lives Matter.

But even during that time, Rodney King

seeing a lot of conversation, too, with.

Well, r. Like, not to say that that was the only time, of course, but like, I'm just like.

Right.

Like recent terms.

But yes, thinking.

Thinking through the conversation that folks who live.

Who live in these same neighborhoods wanted to still have.

You know, when we're talking about defund the police or abolish the police, there were still also people who felt that the police needed to be around because there were other threats that were.

That were present in their neighborhoods, like gangs, like criminals, right.

That, you know, folks didn't feel safe.

And so it's kind of like this duality, this conversation, right?

Like talking, having.

Having all of these conversations around police, all of this.

Like when I watched it recently, watched the film recently, it sprang back up in my head again.

And so again, there's so much in this film, especially when it comes to social commentary, right?

Like It's a, like, at the surface level, it's about someone reluctantly.

Right.

Accepting these abilities that he now has limited, by the way, as well.

I have to bring that out because they're there.

But like, it's also bringing up so many social issues, especially within black communities.

And I just thought that that was.

It's brilliant.

Yes.

Right.

To put it in this film.

I just.

The talent that is.

It doesn't, it doesn't end.

It doesn't end.

I think there's either.

Right.

I think one thing I really truly appreciate about Robert Townsend is the fact that he is constantly still dreaming.

He.

He creates these characters, these male characters that are fueled by wanting to be more but not always knowing how to go about it.

And there is this constant storyline of, yes, this is my environment, but how can I utilize my environment to either get me out of my environment or to better my environment?

And I think that when, with this movie Meteor Man, I saw that there was this.

Once the power is finally assumed and whatnot.

And, and, and, and, and it's fine.

He finally understands that this is the power.

I'm.

I'm.

I'm going to accept this role because you still got to accept it because you.

Because, because there's people who did receive power but didn't accept the responsibility.

You know what I'm saying?

And sometimes you.

You can have a call in but not answer that call, you know?

And so I think with him, it's just that he answers this call and he finally decides that this is what I'm going to do.

And you do it for a community that you love and care for.

And how easy.

How easy it is for that same community to turn.

To turn.

Yes, that was.

That caught me.

Yes.

So off guard.

The same person that will say, hosanna's hosanna.

The same people who would dislike.

You're saving us is also the same people who be like, give us more of us.

Give us like it.

Get like it.

Be your own people.

And I understand the fear because, you know, if things got worse so much.

There's so many threads and there's so many things that came with it.

And you're just thinking, oh, I'm just gonna laugh.

Oh, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna.

I'm just gonna come here for a little Kiki.

But you find out.

No, actually, you start thinking about it.

You start really.

You start really just imagining yourself.

And it's like if given the opportunity, not even opportunity, but if given the power to do the supernatural Power to be more.

To do more.

What would I do with it and how, you know, because he had beneficial powers that can be used selfishly.

He had the ability to see through things.

Yeah, he had the ability to see things.

He had the ability of wisdom, even if it was for 30 seconds.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah.

The ability to do certain things.

But how he uses it, what he uses it for, is so important.

And I. I just.

I really enjoyed it.

I. I enjoyed.

And I also enjoyed as a chocolate assistant myself.

I enjoyed that every form of affection or attraction was always towards a chocolate sister.

I was like, I see myself in this.

The teacher, the goose, Costa, the nurse.

I was like, yes, let's see what's everywhere.

This is representation.

Yeah.

And we love that.

We love that.

We love to see it.

Yes.

We are a point of affection.

We are a point of desire.

And.

And I really.

I really.

I don't know why that was.

That stood out to me, but that was super.

It was so good to see and feel and just like, you know, like to actually, like, see these, you know, different points of affection and muses and, you know them.

You know, when people say, I do it for the.

I do it for those.

Eddie Griffin and Robert Townsend is the definition.

Yeah.

Yes.

They were so great in this film.

The dynamic between them was.

I love, love.

I love their friendship.

I love their friendship and living.

Me too.

By.

By the way.

So I did look up.

So it was released, by the way.

So the.

The films that were out at the same time or, like, near.

That were.

So you have films like the Fugitive that were released earlier that summer.

Jurassic park was released.

You also had.

I'm trying to think.

I'm trying to look through here around, like, the time of August or even, like, July.

You also had Poetic Justice.

You know, they came out with Janet Jackson and Tupac.

You had Hocus Pocus that had come out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A Rookie of the Year that came out.

Yeah.

In.

In July that summer.

You also had Sleepless in Seattle, which came out in June.

So, like, there's.

You had the Firm that had come out in July.

So, like, there's.

You're.

You're up against some heavy hitters, you know, with that, you know, And I'm trying to think of, like, what else is in.

And there really wasn't.

Oh, okay.

That's kind of disappointing.

So Super Mario Brothers made more than Meteor man, which.

The sandlot also came out.

Actually.

No, that was.

Sorry, that was earlier in the summer, so that wouldn't have necessarily interfered with the.

That.

But still, like.

Yeah, yeah, Meterman only made.

Yeah.

And that's challenging.

That's challenging.

I mean, to even get that type of budget.

20 million, it's really hard to even get.

And the fact that.

But you know what's so crazy, And I will probably talk about it towards the end in terms of just like the Roundabout, but I genuinely feel like Robert Townsend would have excelled with the streaming community right now, 100 dominating.

And I know you want him to, like, you know, just.

Just pop out with new stories and on Netflix, Amazon Prime.

So, Aisha, there is, again, I believe that Robert Townsend is so.

I mean, like, we.

We know this man is incredible.

And.

And it comes through his films.

Just the way that he's able to introduce, like, so much nuance, so much of the conversations that we are having within the black community, especially when it comes to poverty and crime and, like, the support of the community.

To be in community.

Yeah.

Right.

With folks.

How community can turn on you.

Right.

You know, but then it's.

But also then bringing out the understanding of that piece.

And as you were saying, like, again, how he shows how, you know, men are, like, dreaming bigger.

Yeah.

You know, than themselves.

Far beyond, like, you know, what their circumstances or what have you.

Like just being able to dream bigger without guidance.

But no.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

For sure.

Any other takeaways before we move on to our next film?

Honestly, it's just another reminder of this.

Like, you get to be who you want to be if you know what is out there.

And I'm seeing this common thread with Robert Townsend.

It's just this idea that just because you didn't have examples doesn't mean you can't create a new example and be the example that you would like to see in the world.

So it's a beautiful.

It's a love story of community.

And I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed it.

Yes.

He absolutely loves his people and we love to see it and we love him.

Yes.

Um, okay, so moving on to the Five Heartbeats.

I don't know why I said it like that, but, yeah, you might as well sing with it.

Might as well sing.

So to give a synopsis.

So this film was released.

So it's actually released before Meteor man.

It's about the coming in.

It's coming in on the tail end of a rhythm and blues R and B.

Singing group explosion, the Five Heartbeats rise and fall within the space of seven years.

Along the way, the group deals with all manner of fame and fortune.

Distractions, jealousy, greed, too much womanizing and drugs all take a toll.