Chris Lindstrom and Lucas Smith from Baytowne Wine and Spirits explore the nuances of the Rochester scene and dive into some spirit tasting. Chris and Lucas discuss the importance of having a clear point of view when tasting and discussing spirits, enhancing the overall experience for both drinkers and listeners.

Lucas shares his vision for Baytowne Wine and Spirits, emphasizing the commitment to curating an exceptional selection and fostering an engaging atmosphere for customers. Their shared passion and enthusiasm resonate throughout the episode, making it an inspiring and engaging listen for spirits enthusiasts and newcomers alike.

Mentions:

• Baytowne Wine and Spirits (@baytownewine)
• Parkway Discount Wine & Liquor (@parkwaywine)
• Pinnacle Wine & Liquor (@pinnaclewine)
• Hampden Estate (@hampdenestaterum)
• Elijah Craig (@elijahcraig)
• Tree House Brewing (@treehousebrewco)
• Waterford Whisky (@waterforddistillery)
• Hollerhorn Distilling (@hollerhorndistilling)
• Drew Tschappat (@drewtschappat)
• Skurnik Wines & Spirits (@skurnikwines)
• George Catallo (@whiskeyjedi)

Mentioned in this episode:

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I'm Chris Lindstrom, and this is the Food About Town podcast.

Rochester.

Well, why Rochester?

Chris Lindstrom was a hoot.

He was just so much fun.

He never stopped talking.

I mean, it was great.

Here's a good idea.

Have a point.

It makes it so much more interesting for the listener.

Then we don't need any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.

Is that clear?

Because I'm a pro.

That's what pros do.

I'm a professional.

Look it up in the book.

But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.

And we are back with another episode of the Food About Town podcast.

I'm here.

It feels like fall.

It finally feels like fall.

It doesn't feel disingenuously like fall.

It doesn't feel like late summer.

It feels like fall.

And I'm here with a guest.

Guest.

Why don't you introduce yourself?

Absolutely.

I am Lucas Smith.

I am the spirit specialist over at Baytown Wine and Spirits, and Chris was kind enough to have me come on the show.

Yay.

So, Lucas, we've known each other for a little while, and we've had some chats because when, you know, I think when both of us bounce around because we talk to lots of people.

You talk to tons of people in the shop.

I talk to everybody about everything because I can't help myself.

Nothing wrong with that.

When you run across people that care as hard as you do, there's this kind of gravitation.

Very much that you find.

At least that I've found.

When I run into somebody, it's like, oh, I can tell.

Maybe they're still finding their way.

Maybe they're doing this not about you and me, but, like, I can tell, oh, somebody's finding their way.

They want to learn.

They want to get excited about things.

And then I can find people who are, like, dedicating their time to this thing, even if they're relatively new, you can tell that they're really investing very much.

And I remember meeting you for the first time, and I think you were still fairly early in learning about everything, but you're already working at the shop, and you were diving in hard at that time.

That's true.

What was the thing that got you into wanting to really dive in and spend your time into spirits?

That's a good question, Chris.

I'd say that for me, a lot of it was when I was in college.

I was.

I was in a similar role at another big store in town, and I kind of moved up into that role over the course of Being there, I just started there as a cashier, but I was a history major in college.

And so I kind of was coming at it with like, I already had an interest in spirits and that kind of thing.

And so then I kind of pursued it with my same research intent that I would buy, like, history stuff.

And coming at it that way, I really just, uh, was able to pursue it where you kind of have that great intersectionality of, of work and passion.

And I've just been going from there ever since.

And I just.

Every, every day I run into something that I'm like, oh, I.

This is something I could still learn more about.

So it just, it's.

It just keeps on giving.

If you like, research.

Yeah.

And I think that's, that's the thing for me, that is the core of everything I love is things where there is no end.

Yeah.

Where you can be, you know, it's something I've always considered myself as a casual expert.

I'm.

I try never to.

I try to classify myself as an industry level expert.

I get you.

Because my friends are industry level experts.

Yeah, right.

Those are my friends.

These are people who have like, national and international level reputation that are writing in magazines that are like the people who dictate, you know, they're the authorities in this.

And I, I am, I'm very knowledgeable and I know a lot about things, but it's one of the greatest things in my life to have so many people accessible to me that know way more than me about things that I know a lot about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's.

What a luxury.

And then now you get to both, you know, act as somebody who knows a lot, but you also now get to be around people who are way more knowledgeable than you.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

And that's one of the best things about it.

I agree entirely because, like, there are.

I definitely am frequently around people where I'm like, oh, this person really.

I mean, you know, Meredith, I mean, she's guided me so much.

I mean, I was into rum, but if it weren't for her, I would not know anywhere near as much as I do know now.

And then I, you know, it just continues on from there.

Well, speaking of which, why don't you pour a little bit?

Yeah.

So.

Well, so since we're talking spirits, we're going to be pouring a little bit.

Apologize in advance if you hear any swishing and spitting noises.

We're both, you know, we've both done a ton of tasting and I think it's something we should talk about just for a second.

So when it comes to tasting, if you're tasting one or two things with friends.

2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 things with friends, please enjoy it, drink it, have a great time.

Make sure you have proper transportation.

Yeah.

But I think we've both had the pleasure of tasting a ton of times.

Definitely.

Obviously, your frequency is higher than mine, but I think we've both had plenty of long tasting sessions when it comes to spirits.

And it's kind of become a force of habit when I'm tasting, unless I'm just like, hey, I'm having one.

I'm sitting down for a show.

Yeah, I'm gonna enjoy the one.

But otherwise, if I'm tasting multiple things, I'm not drinking much at all.

I feel the same way.

Yeah, exactly.

Because you just at a certain point, like, it's very enjoyable, but you do start to think of it kind of in that sense of, you know, of it being work.

Yeah, it's very enjoyable work.

But the process of tasting is very analytical.

But it does take something.

Does take mental effort.

It does, for sure.

To really work through things and give it the honest time that it deserves.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Right.

And I think, you know, thankfully, what can be kind of good about it, too, is that, like, you don't necessarily need to always swallow to be able to get pretty much everything out of it.

And, you know, a lot of the time, for me, because I agree.

I also like to, like, make sure I'm not consuming more in the day than I want to.

Then I might swallow, like, just one very small sip in a while.

I think it's actually part of the process to me that I need to have just a little bit to get the.

To get the finish, to get an aftertaste.

Exactly.

Because I think those.

Those retros, you know, whether it's retro nasals going through your nose, whether it's that little rays coming out of the swallowing process, that really does change.

And.

Holy cow.

So why don't you talk about this for a second?

So this is.

When you're talking about rum, this is a rum, forward rum that is rumored in every way.

You can be 100%.

Yeah.

No, no doubt that it's rum.

So why don't you talk about this for a second?

Because this is serious rum.

And when I say that, you know, if you haven't.

If you haven't had, like, rum that's from a place specifically, if all you've had is spiced, which is heavily sweetened, heavily flavored over extracted spices, they're not really.

There's no character of the sugar cane.

There's no character of where it was made.

It's a.

And it's not even agricultural product anymore.

It's an industrial product.

Yeah.

There's something about rum that's so of a place very much.

And how it was aged, where it was aged.

All of these things matter.

So this is part of the transcontinental rum line, which, if you're looking to get into, you know, better rum, this is a great way to do it.

They have a lot of great source stuff, some at very reasonable prices.

True.

Yeah.

So why don't you talk about this for a second while we're.

While we're diving in?

Yeah, for sure.

This particular bottle.

Thank you.

It's one that.

So of course, we do our fair share of picks at the store, and this is a.

It's actually a pick that was done a few years back, prior to my being there.

Side note, talk about.

Talk about what picks are before we dive in, because I think it's.

I think it's something where, if people really want to learn about spirits, going to a place that really knows what they're doing.

And I'm going to, you know, I know this is, you know, your show about Baytown and yourself.

Oh, you're fine.

I'm going to bring up, you know, the three stores I recommend people go to in the area, because I know the people that run them.

I know that they care like I care.

And if you go to those places, you're going to have a good experience.

Each one specializes slightly, but these are places where I know the people.

It doesn't mean there's aren't other good stores.

For sure.

Yeah.

But I send people to Parkway to see my buddies, you know, Matt Strassman and George Cattell over there.

I send people over to Pinnacle to go see Matt Yeager.

Does a great job with wine.

Good spirit selection.

But the wine side, they're so good at it.

And then I send people to Baytown.

Nice.

And part of that is because each place does things differently very well.

And one thing that you guys have done really well is barrel picks.

So talk about that for a second, because I think it's a great way to taste things that are specifically unique.

Yeah, agreed.

I would say it's something where within the spirit space, it's become more popular, too.

And it's.

It is a really fantastic way to have just an expression that, like you said, is very unique.

It's basically what it is, and it can vary a Little bit in specifics, but you get to taste samples of casks from a producer, and then among those samples, you select one that you find to be.

Of course, when you're barrel picking, you kind of had to not only choose what you would like the best, but what you think your audience is going to like the best.

And so that's what we've done for all the picks that are at the store.

And I inherited a whole lot of picks when I came over a little over a year ago.

And we've continued to go from there, and we've done some more picks since then.

In fact, we've even done another transcon on the rum line pick since I arrived.

But it's pretty neat because you most commonly, you'll have, like, bourbon barrels.

A lot of stores do bourbon barrel picks, and so they'll send you, like, you know, three to six sample bottles.

And among those you choose, which barrel you think you both like the best and is best for your audience.

So it's a pretty neat way to be able to sample the product of one singular barrel.

I mean, and having tasted through a lineup like that several times over, even when it's the same producer, same warehousing and everything, they can be so incredibly disparate, even if it's just like, you know, floor level or any number of factors in that regard, but they can be just wildly different.

Yeah.

So, I mean, and that's to, you know, differentiate it from what you're buying on the shelf, typically, which is a blended product.

So even at higher proof, like barrel strength things, it's almost always blended to get a consistent flavor profile.

Exactly.

And that's a great thing because you have a much higher chance of getting what you expect.

Precisely.

And when you buy something on the shelf, you're expecting it to taste like you expect it to taste.

Yeah.

So if you're buying, you know, I'll use a rum on my shelf.

Sure.

A regular Hampton estate.

Yeah.

And it's something that people, you know, that expertise of blending is there are people to do that full time and distilleries and multiple people.

And there's something about barrel picks.

There's a romance to it because you're getting a single barrel of things.

You're getting all this juice, and that's great, but it is.

The variation is wild.

Very wildly different from one to the other.

So you could do one and then, you know, Pascales and Syracuse can do the same spirit from a different barrel of the same age.

And they could taste very different from one another.

Yeah.

Because that lot of wood was different.

It was, you know, maybe the heat was just different on the level of toast or whatever difference it was.

And it's fascinating how much of a difference there is.

So.

Well, let's do some.

Let's do some smelling because this is weird as hell.

Isn't it though?

So this also has a little bit of darkness to it.

Yeah.

So we were smelling a rum earlier that I pulled down that was, you know, around.

That was very molasses forward.

I wouldn't say this molasses forward, but it really has some of that really dark, punchy brown, sugary kind of thing.

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's pure molasses, but it has that rich, you know, dark, sugary character.

So much so.

Bit of the kind of stewed fruits to it.

Yeah.

This has a huge.

So when we talk about rum like this, this has some of that salinity to the nose, that airiness and a little bit of that.

It's weird, this airy sea air, banana forward things very common in tropical rums that are aged in the tropics and fermented with open air and things like that.

Exactly.

And this really carries a lot of that high note character.

And this, this is stiff too.

This is like 126 proof.

Oh, yeah.

So this is.

This isn't like intro rum.

No.

But also somewhat approachable, I'd say.

So it has just a touch of volume.

Just has a touch of acetone to it.

Yeah.

I mean, a tiny amount.

I wouldn't consider it a fault, but I wouldn't not consider it a fault.

I get that.

I know there's an acceptable level for people in the rum community.

Right.

Is when you taste enough, you start to be able to pick it out at very low concentrations for sure.

And it does.

I still pick it as a fault, but in the context of something with this many flavors, it doesn't really affect it that much.

I know what you mean Entirely though.

That's like the most recent Hampton great house.

They have a portion of DOK in it and it's like that one definitely has like, you go to taste and you're like, there is some acetone kind of vibe to this.

Yeah.

This also has kind of a.

Kind of like a green apple.

Yeah, like green apple almost malic acid.

Like Crunchy green, something going on.

It's not quite like green apple candy.

It's more like fresh.

There's like fresh bright.

Bright like skins.

And the reason why we're doing this tasting this way right now is partially because I kind of want people to hear how the bounce between goes.

Yeah.

Because you can do this as a solitary exercise.

I love tasting with another person.

It's a lot more rewarding in some ways.

And it's not about suggesting.

Because, yes, you can suggest flavors that people will then confirm.

And they'll confirm or they will start to smell that, even if they didn't originally.

But I think there's something really fun about collaborative tasting because you learn something that you didn't know before.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree entirely.

Especially with people who are experienced in it like that.

Yeah.

Because I can sit and taste by myself and I could pick out a lot of stuff on my own for sure.

And we might come to the same conclusions or similar conclusions, but I just love sitting with somebody and that bounce between is very enjoyable, which is always why I like just doing this.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

Let's taste.

Yeah.

Ooh.

Wow.

So it really does carry through on the palate.

Right.

Some of that.

Wow.

Banana that you mentioned.

So airy.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

But you do get a little tobacco.

Yeah.

You know that.

To kind of round it.

How old is this?

It's actually.

How much.

How much age is it?

It's 18, I believe, total.

That would be why.

Yeah.

You get a little bit of barrel char on it.

But it's not like a bourbon that was over aged.

No.

And we're gonna talk.

Let's talk about that for a second.

Because, like, bourbon can quickly become overaged and taste char forward and not really good anymore.

And there's this misnomer about age being the real dictator of quality.

Yeah.

And it's something I've really worked to try to dispel a little bit.

No, it's a good thing to dispel.

Because I think it's, you know, it loses balance.

It does.

And man, this has some of those dark flavors as that, you know, almost that.

Some of those cognac, like, flavors with, you know, it has some of that, like raisiny dark fruits.

And it's got that.

That leathery, rich finish.

Almost has some of that, like, bouncy, not like grape middle, but that fruity.

Yeah.

That.

It's like mixed fruit.

It's almost like.

Almost like Hawaiian punch where it's really bouncy.

It's not that Red.

But you know what I mean.

It's got that.

Do I do.

And it's not tropical.

It's not like IPA tropical.

But it's got this like just bounce around of like orchard fruits, you know, cherries and apples and peaches.

But they're all so airy and bouncy.

This is an absolute blast.

Isn't that though?

And I should say too.

I just realized I didn't actually say it before.

For specificity's sake.

And yeah.

That's something about those long age Trinidad rums are just like wild and this.

Aged both in the tropics and in Europe.

Yeah.

In fact I was just taking a second look at that because I was trying to remember what the numbers ended up being.

Was actually in the.

Some of the transcontinental rum lines.

It really can vary in terms of if they spend more time at Origin or more time in Europe.

But in this instance this spent 15 years at origin.

So it was actually in Trinidad and Tobago for 15 years.

Which is tropic.

Aging for that long is a lot.

It's really a lot.

And so it's honestly kind of impressive that it's not over oaked like you said.

But they hit it.

Right.

And it's definitely a used barrel because the color would be like so dark.

Exactly.

If it was in a new barrel.

And that's something very typical in Scotch.

Very typical in like a lot of Irish whiskeys where you'll see older age statements because they're not.

They've already been used once so they don't get that hard.

Char.

But what a delight.

So this is the kind of thing where like this could be like the signature rum you have in your.

In your collection of something you can buy.

What is something like this.

And not to say there aren't more approachable things.

For sure.

So what does this kind of thing go for?

I know this has a lot of age, a lot of character.

This isn't going to be a cheap affair.

No.

It ends up being like just about 150 all told.

Yeah.

But here's the thing.

Like when.

When we're talking about.

We're going to talk about rarity for a second and then we're going to dive into more about like what is.

What is Baytown as a store.

Sure.

We're going to talk about rarity.

Because rarity is multiple different things.

Yeah.

Rarity is lack of availability and then lack of total amount of product.

Yes.

And perceived lack of availability.

It's all three of those things in different measures, depending on what it is.

And it's something that, you know, I've had some conversations with people about, and it's something I've been.

I'm starting to be more vocal about is my general distaste for perceived lack of availability and lack of availability instead of things that are really rare.

And my drive right now is to have people taste and understand what they like because they're tasting something they enjoy and learning about why, instead of getting things because they're rare and trying to flip them on secondary.

It's one of my least favorite things about the spirits hobby in general, and I think it hurts a lot of people, and it hurts the hobby.

It does.

It genuinely does.

It makes it worse for everyone.

It's worse for the people running stores.

It's worse for the people who are drinking, because you could find ways to enjoy yourself more instead of chasing things and flipping and trying to make profits on each thing.

And.

Yeah, you know what?

You know, if you do it occasionally, like, fine, have.

Have a great time.

I don't care.

Yeah.

But if that's your drive for the whole hobby, just to get the rarest and most expensive and things that are valued at five, ten times over.

Yeah.

It just drives me crazy.

I don't think it helps anything.

No, it really doesn't.

And it just makes it worse and harder for everyone who just enjoys it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm off my soapbox for a second.

Agreed.

So before.

Before we go into.

Before we go break, I want to talk about.

Talk about Baytown.

So you've been there for how long now?

I've been there for, let's see, about a year and a half now.

Yeah.

Year and a half.

So when you got there, the person I knew who ran it, James Palingra.

Yeah.

You know, great guy, you know, amazing, you know, amazing steward of the store.

Very much.

He was there.

And then over the last, you know, what, six months after you started or so he ended up leaving for another opportunity.

Exactly.

Which leaves you as kind of the sole person driving the spirit side of things.

Yeah.

That was kind of the setup with.

It was that with his departure, obviously, our wine program.

Not to, like, talk it up too much, but I will say Drew Chapet does an outstanding job with our wine direction.

Like, he.

He really built and curates a wonderful selection in that regard.

Let's talk about Drew for a second.

Yeah.

So I say this with the greatest respect.

Drew is a dedicated nerd.

Yeah.

About wine.

I love how much he cares about Things.

And I know if I go in and ask him a specific question with intent, he's going to give me a real ass answer.

Yeah.

There's no preciousness with what he does, but when he likes something, he likes it hard.

Very much so.

And Drew trained.

Trained sommelier.

He's worked in high end restaurants.

He ran the beverage program at Red when it launched.

You know, he's, you know, he worked at Farmers Creekside when I.

When I spent more time out there.

Yeah.

And he also worked at Red Tail Ridge in the Finger Wakes.

He is a well traveled person around wine.

He is a, you know, border and an expert in Riesling.

And having him at the store, what.

What an asset immense to have around.

Yeah, yeah.

So much so.

I mean, like, I just entirely defer to him in all that regard.

And.

And that's part of the reason why when James was leaving, despite the fact that James has such a strong basis in wine, there was like no concern on the wine side because Drew was there.

So I was like, nothing needs to be done there.

I think it was just that in his transition then he was wanting to make sure that there was still a curation of the spirit side.

And so that was why he had reached out to me, because he knew, like, kind of my interest because I had actually started shopping at Baytown while I was still in that, like, you know, liquor manager role at another store.

And a large part of that was just because of the selection that James had curated.

And it was enough to have me come over there as a customer.

And so it was on that basis that I kind of stepped into that role.

And then I've done my best to make sure that I continued the direction of that curation.

Yeah.

So when you're, when you're going into that side of things, so you've already done it.

Right.

But when you're taking over a program, that is a different kind of curation.

Right.

That is more specific from somebody's viewpoint.

Yes.

How.

How are you?

Did you already have an idea of what perspective you wanted?

Was it expanding?

Was it diversifying?

What was it about.

About where it was that you said, hey, this part is.

This is amazing.

I really enjoy this.

What were the kind of things that you were thinking you wanted to do to, you know, make it more of your program?

Yeah, that.

No, absolutely.

I think part of it is like, particularly within Rum.

I mean, like, rum was already in a spot where it was drawing me over there.

So clearly it was very well done.

And pretty, pretty clearly it was already the Best selection of rum Rochester before.

Right.

So I didn't necessarily need to change anything directionally there, but what I had to do was there's just.

There's so consistently, there's new independent bottlers coming out, there's new expressions from some of the best producers coming out.

And so just being able to try and keep a finger on the pulse of that and make sure that you can kind of delineate what is, oh, this needs to be represented at the store, versus, we don't necessarily need to have this on the shelf to still have the best selection available.

Yeah.

And so that's been a lot of that.

And then beyond that, some of it's just, like, areas of, like, personal favorites.

Like, I love rum, obviously, I love agave.

I also love Irish whiskey.

And we had some space to expand in Irish whiskey, so I've had a little bit there.

And also to that point of just trying to.

To make sure when we have, like, you know, the widest selection, I want to make sure that that goes, like, truly as wide as possible.

So, like, even if it's just one or two expressions, I want to make sure we had, like, a poutine on the shelf for Irish whiskey of just, you know, stuff that, like, it should have some kind of a representation, even if there's not much of a mark.

Talk about that for a second.

Yeah.

What is that and why are you fascinated by it?

It's.

It's unaged Irish whiskey, in a sense.

So it's kind of the, like, Irish equivalent of, like, moonshine, if will.

Yeah.

So we will also.

I'm.

So.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna get back on my soapbox for a second.

This is always, like, my opportunity to talk to people.

Like, I get in my little spirit soapboxes because I.

Please.

I have strong opinions.

Shockingly enough.

It's something that.

Something that, you know, having tasted so many unaged whiskeys in competitions over the years, how many times I've started to run into ones that are just really good.

Yeah.

And they're not just.

You know what?

We just didn't want it.

We didn't age this stuff.

We need to make money now.

So we just bottled it.

The same stuff we would have made to just go into bourbon barrels or American whiskey barrels or whatever else.

I think we're starting to see places make it on purpose.

Yeah.

And I think.

I forget if it was George I was talking to, but we.

I think we came to the conclusion, like, at the same time that especially when people are making a Product that's really good on aged.

We should really just call it like, like, like whiskey od.

Yeah.

Or.

Or like corn O d.

Like ever.

Backwoods moonshine kind of.

Right.

I think it's very.

I don't like fun.

Like, it's something I've.

I say that jokingly just as like a comment, but it's also fundamentally true with how I enjoy things.

I enjoy things hard.

I don't enjoy things part way.

No.

And like, when you could be making a really good product and you're just throwing like mediocre stuff in a bottle to sell it, when you're making a serious product that's unaged, essentially unaged whiskey, like, it should be kind of treated like a serious product.

Like something that is done purposefully, intentionally to be delicious.

Precisely.

And like, if we're calling it like whiskey eau de vie, like it is capturing the intent of whiskey on aged profile.

Might still have barley, might still have everything else.

Or it's just corn.

But call it corn eau de V or something else because it can be amazing.

Seriously.

So.

And I couldn't agree more.

And I think that it's such a mark of good quality distillation skill.

Like, because I had the.

The privilege of being able to try a little bit of Carl from Hollerhorn, who I know George is also very familiar with his new make on a new batch.

And I was like, this is outstanding.

And just, I mean, like, and it's something he's planning on aging, but the fact that the base spirit that he's going to then put age on is that good.

I'm like, this.

This is proper distillation.

Yeah.

Side note, now having tasted through that rum again and again.

Yeah.

Wow.

What a delight.

Isn't it, though?

I mean, I loved it right away.

Yeah.

But the more you taste it, you're getting some of those spices from it and they're not added.

No.

But you're getting some of those barrel spices and wow.

It's so crunchy.

Right.

That's a good way of putting it.

And it's like, like it leaves.

It has some of those tannins from the barrel, but man, that is character fall, isn't it?

And like, so fun.

That balance of, like herbaceousness alongside the stone fruit notes, it's.

It just grabs you in such a cool way.

Yeah.

So I think we're going to do.

We're going to take a break.

We're going to put more in our glass.

We're going to taste a little bit ahead of time.

And dive into tasting stuff.

Sounds good.

And we'll be right back.

And we're back with the second half of our conversation with Lucas Smith from Baytown.

What's the whole name of Baytown, by the way?

For sure, Baytown Wine and spirits altogether.

And I didn't put the plugs up front.

So where, Where's Baytown located?

Yeah, we're on Empire Boulevard in Webster, kind of the southern part of Webster in the Baytown Plaza.

The one with Planet Fitness at one part of the back and Walmart at the other side.

Yeah.

So an assistant.

If it's been a while since you've been over there, One, what are you doing?

And two, this is the new, expanded location.

And new meaning, like 20, 21, 20, 22.

Yeah.

Amazing size store, amazing selection.

This is again, one of the places I shop specifically because they care like I care.

And we are smelling a barrel pick from what is a classic bourbon brand.

Elijah Craig, indeed.

So this is one where you can buy the regular expression on the shelf for.

I assume it's still in like the low 30s.

Yeah, I think at this point, I think it might be about like 35, but still there about.

Yeah.

So that's like the mainline expression.

This is like when you're first getting into spirits and you're getting into bourbon, you know, you could buy your, you could buy your, your Jack Daniels, your Jim Beams, the original Evan Williams bottled and Bond, goodbye.

Definitely.

But when you're looking to go one step up from that.

Yeah.

And start to understand different profiles that different manufacturers make and different brand profiles, this is one of the ones.

And this was actually the first one I ever bought.

Oh, really?

Was when it was Elijah Craig 12, which was the main line, that was the first one I ever bought.

And at the time was, you know, 25 bucks.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But that was the first spirit I ever bought.

Was cool because, you know, it had some age, it had some character.

And what I found when I bought it is I didn't and I liked it.

But when I tasted more, I'm like, man, I don't love the Elijah Craig profile.

Yeah.

And it's something that I love talking about because you have to find what you like, you do and learn out why.

So what we're going to talk about is the way this smells.

So this is.

So when people talk about bourbon smelling like peanuts, this is, this is very classic bourbon when it comes to the smell.

Caramel coated peanut brittle.

You know, it's got.

It's very distinctly peanut y and it's Weird that that's like a note that you can really pull out.

You can for sure.

But this a very prominent note of that I think would go really well in a high powered cocktail.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Something to, you know, maybe for me, balance out the peanut.

But most people love that.

That is true.

That's a very common favorite note.

Yeah.

And this is this one stiff too.

And it's something.

Elijah Craig.

When they do barrel proofs, they go pretty stiff.

This is into the 130s, right?

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

I think 132 points.

9.132.9.

Yeah.

And it's.

That's also something that's good to learn too.

If you're just reading things about spirits and they're like, oh, you got to go to barrel proof things.

You have to go to high proof.

Especially when you're getting into things.

You're not going to enjoy it.

No, you won't.

It takes time.

Exactly.

To learn how to taste.

Yeah, yeah.

Especially high proof things.

Yeah.

And I mean, I've.

I've definitely tasted through high proof things and like blown out my palate and like be like, oh, my tongue and gums hurt for the rest of the day.

And it's just not fun.

So it's.

You gotta like, approach it judiciously.

I do like the finish on this.

So again, you definitely continue on.

This is a peanut brittle bomb to me.

But in the middle of it rolling over your palate, you do get some of that, some of those cherry notes, those cherry candy notes, some of the.

Like berry pie kind of things too, right?

Yeah, for sure.

And that's where the complexity comes in.

Yeah.

And this is one where, like, I'm definitely a purist.

I don't usually drink things over ice.

Yeah.

This is one where you could definitively put ice on it for sure.

And I think diluting this is going to help you pick out more of those balancing flavors.

I think you're right.

Because sometimes when they're in the barrel, like if this hasn't been diluted at all, this is.

It could be kind of closed for all the sub notes.

Yeah.

Because those big notes kind of dominate everything else.

Right.

On the palate, which is why you need to taste things.

Exactly.

And one of the great things about Baytown is they also have a lot of their barrel picks like this.

You know, when people are around to.

They have some samples available for you to go in.

They have a nice little room and you know, on Friday afternoons you can go in and taste, which I love that you have the brands in to let you come in and taste.

And they want to talk about things.

Exactly.

And it's not just about the advertising.

Most of them just want to taste.

Yeah.

Want to show off what they do.

Very much so.

And we're lucky to work with a lot of really good reps who, you know, are really passionate about what they're doing.

Like, I know you know Nate from pm.

Absolutely.

A few different folks like that.

Shout out to Sam.

Yes.

Yeah, most definitely.

For Skrnick.

Yeah.

Who's.

I mean, she does such an amazing job between, you know, my friend Abel Gonzalez over there, who does great on the wine side of things.

Very much so.

You know, Samburr being, you know, a spirits expert.

And I've talked to other people in their organization that are really good on that side.

Great company.

And knowing, knowing, sometimes knowing the distributors, you can learn, hey, they're going to carry good stuff.

Yeah.

See what they're offering at the time.

Yeah.

Go to the store and see, hey, what's interesting right now, what do you like?

And then have them point you in the direction.

And that's something I know you can do at Baytown.

Definitely.

Yeah.

And that's something that we try to pride ourselves on because, you know, it's one thing if you're just trying to put stuff on the shelf, but if you're treating it like, oh, this is like a library of sorts that I had to curate and I need to have stuff that I'm proud to offer to people.

So I think that's, that's kind of the try to how I conceptualize it.

So I was like asking people this.

That are into spirits or other alcohol related things.

What was, what was your, what was your journey from first getting into things?

From first, you know, tasting alcohol to becoming a serious person.

Were you always serious or did you have to get into that?

You know, what was your first exposure?

Yeah, I think, I think that it was that I have a tendency just on a personal level.

And I think a lot of people who are into this field feel the same way and come at it the same way that they are just people who get really interested in like certain topics and will pursue it to death, like for sure, you know, and so that's definitely my case.

So when I first started, I was like, I want to know about whiskey.

And so I read a bunch of books and I, you know, I tried to taste a bunch of things.

In fact, it's kind of honestly a joke at this point.

But I, what I would do, I Would go to Canada before I was 21, and I would go and taste in.

In bars in Canada, and I would be like, you know, getting pores of things to be like, oh, this is my point of reference on this.

And thank you.

So, like, you know, I was still trying to have a good time, of course, but I also was already, like, kind of trying to approach it with that in mind.

And I still, at the time, I did not know much, but I was trying to learn as much as I could.

And that's, you know, I kind of started with Irish whiskey on that front.

And then.

Do you have, like, your first Irish whiskey you remember, like, really enjoying?

Yes, definitely.

Funny enough, it was.

I was in Toronto, and I was at a whiskey bar there, which actually, I had to admit I'm struggling to remember the name of now, but it was right next to a music venue.

I was going to a Flogging Molly concert, and I was like, well, this would be a perfect opportunity to try a couple Irish whiskeys for sure.

Right.

And so at the time, I had yellow spot for the first time.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm really glad that that bartender pointed me in that direction, because then I was like, okay, single pot, still Irish whiskey.

This is something that it's just hitting me in a completely different way.

And then I kind of went down that rabbit hole.

I bought Fanon O'Connor's book, and I'd sense, talked with him a bit.

Really, really helpful person in the Irish whiskey academia side of things.

But he wrote an entire book about single pot still whiskey.

And it's such a cool, like, specifically Irish kind of category.

So, yeah, I went down that rabbit hole.

And then later on during the pandemic, I got really into.

Into tiki and went down the rabbit hole of, like, rum varietals and stuff.

And then I just, from Tiki, went into rum and got to know Meredith and got even further into rum.

And speaking of how much.

How much fun was that first Rochester Tiki Week?

Oh, it was wonderfully done.

I mean, we had everybody over here, but, wow, what a great time.

And I got to meet new people, I got to go to new places.

What.

What a rousing success that whole thing was, for real.

And I think it worked on so many levels, too, because not only did it bring out all the people that, like, you know, are huge rum heads and, like, they're really active in the community and the bars scene, but it also brought out a bunch of people who I had, like, kind of met once or twice coming into the store to buy rum because they do a lot of tiki cocktails at home.

But then they started coming out for this, and it's like, okay, this is a strong community of, like, a wide variety of people who are connected on this, which is, like, the best.

Yeah.

And I think it's.

It's a great excuse because I think tiki brings a lot of nerds out.

It does.

Because I think, you know, people, like, it's goofy.

Yes, it's goofy.

It's this.

And, like, I just love all the flavors.

Like, it's just punchy, weird hands, odd.

And then, you know what?

For people that like fun, it's also really fun.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Right.

And going to different places and learning about, how do they do this?

How do I.

How do you do that version of that?

Where did you get that recipe?

How to figure it out.

It's really interesting.

Speaking of interesting, I want you to nose this.

Yeah.

Give me your first unvarnished reaction.

Okay.

I'm curious.

Whoa.

Oh, man.

Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah.

Oh, that's neat.

Oh.

So I described this whiskey to him ahead of time.

This.

This.

Like he knew what he was in for.

But it's still surprising.

It is.

This is.

So I've talked about this on the podcast at least once, just with me tasting.

This is one of the most singular whiskeys I have ever had.

Yeah, I could see that.

It's just specific.

So I mentioned this on the podcast before, but this is from Appalachian Gap Distilling.

This is.

They made essential Vermont malt whiskey out of finished switchback ale.

So during the pandemic, they had a whole bunch of extra kegs that they weren't going to sell because couldn't sell draft beer, really.

So Appalachian Gap distilled it all, put it into new American barrels, and aged it for, I think, two years or three years or whatever it was.

And they released this, and I was at a farmer's market going, you're driving up to Burlington from the Adirondacks.

And I just love stopping at farmer's market.

Yeah, definitely.

Because you never know what you're gonna find.

You're gonna find something weird.

Yeah.

And, you know, they were tasting.

I'm like, like, Carrie, you mind if.

I was talking about Carrie, do you mind if I taste for a little bit?

Sure.

No, you.

You're gonna enjoy that.

Yeah.

It's like 10 in the morning, and I'm whiskey tasting because.

Yeah, that's what you do.

That's what you do.

And I taste this.

I'm like, what in the hell did you guys do?

How did you make this?

Oh, man.

But isn't, like, that dense floral character?

Isn't it so interesting that that's the hop that came out immensely was.

It's so densely, like, medium floral.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, you know when you, like, you smell hyacinths and you get that almost overpowering mid to deep floral.

Yes.

This is like that, but the hoppy side of florals.

You know, if you have an IPA and you get some florals and that dense, almost a little dankness.

Yeah, this is that turned up to, like, 15.

Yeah, that's a perfect way of putting.

It because it's almost perfumey with how hop florally it is.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's so odd because it's almost fruity.

Yeah.

With how florally it is.

Oh, incredibly.

And you do get.

I feel like you get some of that, like, grapefruit pith.

You associate, you know?

Absolutely.

No, grapefruit's a great note.

Yeah.

Almost West Coasty y with that style.

But it's almost like grapefruit extract.

Yes.

With how intense it is because it's.

Not just like, oh, a bit of the flesh.

It's like this.

Yeah, no, that's a great, like, oils, too.

Right.

It's an oily smell.

Yeah.

I got to get into this.

Whoa.

So the hoppiness carries through when I say dank.

The dankness on the palate.

The dankness on the palate.

Very much so.

It's really dank.

Like, this is borderline cannabis dank.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would say so.

And.

And then the fun part, so take a little bit down, is that it actually finishes with hop bitterness.

Oh, it does, though.

Yeah.

It's not barrel bitterness.

It's hop bitterness.

It's distinct.

It's amazing how much hops they got into this.

That's probably one of the hoppiest things I've tasted, to be perfectly honest.

Right.

That's really neat.

And that's why, like, when I tasted this, I'm like, God damn, I can't believe that they made this on purpose.

Yeah.

And I'm so happy they did.

Exactly, exactly.

Because this is the kind of thing when I.

When I have people who are like.

Like, they taste a lot.

Yeah.

These are the things I pull out.

I have not tasted something like that.

Before because I know it's not distributed.

No.

Can't have made that much.

No, they made a few barrels of this, and that's probably the all they'll Ever make that'll ever be.

But your point of rarity.

Right.

But that's like.

It's a singular moment, and maybe they'll make it again because it was a success.

Yeah.

Maybe that's the thing.

But that's.

This is the kind of thing where I know if you were driving through Vermont, you're going to make a side trip just to buy.

I definitely would know because it is weird as hell.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the kind of thing when you.

When you sample somebody who's tasted so many things.

Yeah.

Tasted rare things, tasted expensive things.

And then you taste that.

Like, I could see you light up as soon as you smell.

Yeah.

Because it's not like anything I've had before.

So evocative in that regard.

Like, it.

It makes you think of, like, you know, times when you've been, you know, hanging out with people and they've been having IPAs, and.

But then there's other sense around, like the.

Like you said, just that very, very dank kind of element to it.

And like.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Almost kind of chocolatey at the same time.

Because it's still malt.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's weird.

Like, the malt doesn't come through all the time, but then it peeks out here and there because it's not like full malted barley.

It's already been processed into a beer.

So you lose, like, that distinctly, like, porridge y malt forward thing.

But it's definitely a malt still.

Yeah.

And it's interesting because to that point, I don't think I've ever had a whiskey before that finished in such a way that I could have been, like, tricked into thinking I just drank a beer.

But that's kind of how this finishes, I would say.

Yeah.

So just wanted.

I'm so thrilled to share this with people.

But I think that's part of the fun thing, too.

When you're tasting so much, what's.

What's one of the things you, like.

You were talking about, you know, the unaged Irish.

What's another thing that you've tasted over the last year, you know, year and a half of really tasting actively Baytown, that you're like, wow, I'm surprised how much I liked this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

There's a few things, in fact, to that point, of just talking about, like, stuff with other folks who are a point of reference.

I know Meredith has pointed out before, the thought of, like, you taste something that, like, rewires your brain kind of.

And there's been a few things for that for, like, for me, this was a little bit longer ago, but when I first tried the.

And I was like, whoa.

I mean, I'd had, like, some Jamaican funk before, but talk about.

Talk about that experience of tasting something like that.

Yeah, it's.

It's just.

It hits you in a different way and that, like, you can taste plenty of things where you're like, oh, this is enjoyable.

This is something that I find interesting.

And I like.

But there's other times where you taste something and you're like, this is just.

Thank you.

Like, nothing I've ever had before.

And, like.

And I think I want more of it.

And that was how I felt with that in particular.

I was actually, when I was in New Orleans a couple years ago, and I was at Canaan Table, which is.

I definitely highly recommend, really, really good bar program.

But they had a bottle of thank you, Hampton, great house there.

And so I went to try some, and I was like, this is.

It's, like, decadent in a way.

I've never had anything that was.

And it just.

It, like, lights up.

Like, it almost makes you feel like you're hitting, like, neurons that weren't firing before, kind of thing is the sensation, I would say.

And there's been a couple things that I've gotten that with, but anytime I do, it always, like, proves to me.

It's like, this is something that I need to pursue further.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, and that's.

And that's why, you know, I think with a lot of things, we talk about this on some of the other shows on the network about, you know, photography and art is showing up.

Yeah.

Showing up in person.

And I think being present with all these kind of things and, like, really enjoying things is one of the great things about tasting.

One of the great things about doing these is when you get that moment of, man, I'm so happy.

Yeah.

That I got to experience something so special.

Right.

And sometimes it's the.

I can't believe somebody decided to do that.

Yeah.

It's a delight where you get surprised.

And when you're talking about Irish, like, I had one with friend Chris Carlson, who we were talking about originally, who.

I've got four and a half pounds of Vietnamese peppers fermenting in my kitchen because of Chris Carlson.

Like, he had this.

I think it was a single malt Waterford.

Oh, sure.

From the Irish.

Yeah.

And I tasted it there.

I'm like, oh, my God.

Yeah.

What a.

What a revelatory taste.

Where absolutely this is what you can do with Irish whiskey.

And it was distinctly Irish, but so complex.

Interesting.

I'm like, wow, it twists things on its head.

And that's one of the great things about this whole thing is you're never bored.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

You can be annoyed, you can be.

Angry, you can get jaded to certain elements of it, for sure.

And I think it's almost inevitable where at some point you're like, man, I can't believe they tried to send this.

I can't believe that they thought that this was okay to ship and sell.

Yeah.

And I've.

It's so weird when I've had that reaction when judging where we're supposed to send tasting notes or comments.

Yeah.

And the only note I can think to send is you should taste this against similar products on the market.

Yeah.

And see what you think in between.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's one of the.

It's one of the most valuable things is to taste side by side, to figure out what you like.

Yeah.

And I know, I'm sure you've done tons of side by sides wine tastings.

Yeah.

Just to see.

Do you like this?

Regardless of label, without your prior knowledge.

Yeah.

It forces you to be really attentive of that.

Yeah.

Well, it's also hard because, like, sometimes you have to know, but then you have to learn how to separate what you know.

Yeah.

From what you're actually experiencing.

Yes.

Yeah.

Which is difficult.

That's.

That takes time to.

It does.

To learn how to do that.

Yeah, exactly.

And I mean, like, I've tried before based on, you know, my own experience and based on what other people have presented of.

Like if this was just liquid in a bottle and there was no label on it, it was just, like, there for me to drink.

Yeah.

Would I actually want to purchase this unlabeled liquid for this amount of money and then consume it?

Yeah.

And I always try to conceptualize it like that because if the answer is no, I mean, obviously there's a lot of factors at play, but if the answer is no, I don't think I want to present it to offer to people.

Right.

You know, one.

I think that's where the challenge is.

Right.

Like, because obviously you need to sell volume things as well.

Yeah.

And there is a balance between everything else.

Of course.

You know, you don't.

It's part of the.

It's part of the truth of the industry.

Right.

You have to have the basics.

The basics that people want to buy in volume and frequently and that people store in their House all the time.

That's an important part of the business.

It is.

But it's also, you hope to have the opportunity to get people excited about things, too.

And when you.

When you find the people that want to dive in, you know, getting them to get excited.

Speaking which, I want you to take a nose on this.

Let's see.

So this one I haven't talked about on the podcast before.

A few people from work were driving through Massachusetts and stopped at Tree House.

What everybody knows Treehouse for is being one of the drivers of the modern New England ipa, the hazy IPA movement, which obviously started in Vermont with, you know, Heidi Topper and those people of that time, and then evolved into Trillium and Treehouse, really being the drivers of the what is now referred to as a New England ipa, you know, dry hopping, everything else.

But in the last few years, with all the farmland they have and everything else they've gotten into, you know, farm to farm to glass spirits.

And they've got a lot of different things going on.

I've got one of the rums on the shelf.

They've got other things, but this is.

When I saw this on the.

When I saw this on their list, I'm like, man, this is either going to be awful or it's going to be something that when I serve this to people, they're going to be like, why can't I get this in my shop today?

Yeah.

I'm having a feeling like it might be that for me.

Yeah.

So the label on this, for me, this looks a lot like Brutal Americano's label.

Yeah.

It's very evocative of that.

It feels very Italian in a beautiful way.

Definitely.

It's got this citrus feel to it.

It's got this beautiful green.

And this is grain neutral spirits, so gns, which means they're not really necessarily producing it there.

Yeah.

As the base spirit.

Because this isn't about the base spirit.

It's not.

It's about making sure there's no faults.

Yeah.

But this is about all the flavors.

And this is a Key lime aperitifo.

So when I see that, typically, I'm thinking that this is likely going to be herbaceous, maybe a little bit bitter, but on the nose, man.

Does that smell like.

Like lime?

Yeah, lime.

Like when you're juicing limes and it gets on your hand and.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's got that little bit of darkness to it.

It's like.

It feels like it's beautifully ripe.

Yes.

And.

But not juicy.

It's very.

You can Almost smell the herbaceousness of the bitter.

You can smell like the gentian.

I was going to say it almost comes across like there could be like quinine or something of that, like kind of barky.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm interested.

So go ahead and, go ahead and taste because it's a beautiful nose.

But this is going to be one where.

Oh, wow, like I didn't pour a ton.

This is one you're like, oh, yeah, okay.

Well, this is.

If I'm, if I'm going to finish part of this, this is going to be one of those.

Yeah.

This is really interesting because like for everything that on the nose is like that lime oil and everything that it's still very much lime on the palate, but like it shifts so much so into that, like you said, a campariesque bitterness of like that, you know, Italian amari, where like you get that specific kind of like incense herbaceous bitterness.

And it's like that comes to the fore in a way that's unexpected from the nose.

Right.

Yeah.

And essentially in the best possible way, if I were to describe this in two words, it's lime campari.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It sums it up, but I think.

It'S a little bit more complex.

Yeah.

With the level of herbaceousness.

But really it's lime campari.

But like what an amazing thing.

Yeah.

That it's lime Campari with more complexity.

Yeah.

Like, how do you beat that?

Right.

I mean, that's, that's fantastic.

And that's so cool too because it just reminds me one of my best friends, he actually is the spirit specialist at Market View and he is really good friends with my brother in law.

He made a key lime liqueur for my brother in law using a bunch of key limes.

And my brother in law loves very, very bitter things.

And I feel like part, part of what happened for me with this is that coming to the palate, I kind of forced me to re.

Index and be like, oh, yes, key limes, they might be made into a pie, but key limes are a bitter thing.

And like in the best way, like in a very complex and interesting way.

But this is a roundabout way of saying like, oh, yeah, this is a complex bitterness.

Yeah.

And it's crisply bitter.

But you're right, it's.

You're getting some of that lime bitterness, but it's definitely got that gentian bitterness or some other bitter root.

Yeah, well, it's crisply bitter.

This isn't like, this isn't aperol bitterness, which is softer.

No, this Is crisply bitter.

Like for me this makes me want to make a green Negroni with like a, not like a dry, dry vermouth, like a sweeter driver mousse or like your like a Cocci Americano or something like that.

And you know, another citrusy gin where you get that lemon lime profile or.

Something almost like Sprite Ask.

Uh huh.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh man, that's going to be something that's going to be really good.

That'd be a cool experiment for sure.

And unfortunately I don't think they distribute at all.

Now I'm going to check the price posting because I'm like, that's pretty neat.

I think you're correct.

Presumably.

But still it's also like $30 retail.

Really?

It's like 30, 35 bucks retail.

Very fair for a 750.

Like it's really not that different price from Campari itself.

Yeah.

And I love, I mean Campari is like a necessity at a bar.

Yeah.

But like now that I have this, like, man, this is like next time I'm not buying one, I'm going to have multiples of this because this has to be on my shelf all the time.

Yeah.

You're going to have to keep me posted with like what you do cocktail wise on that and also just sourcing it because like I'd love to see what you work on with that because I mean.

Yeah.

Oh, and just I swallowed a bit there and I'm just thinking like it comes back to the lime too.

Like it, you know, the post finish.

Brings it back to that like almost lime candy.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But not in a fake lime extract kind of.

Not at all.

And not, not at all cloying either.

And it is sweet.

It is.

But in the same way that Campari sweet.

It's like so much lime Campari, but it's so real lime.

Yeah.

Instead of like orange X not extract.

But like this tastes like real lime.

Yes.

Which is like.

Oh my God, it's, it's so.

Yeah.

That really, it.

That's pretty cool.

I had to say.

See this is the thing like when I say I want you to bring something and it's because I want to do this too.

Yeah.

But I don't want to always just do that side.

I love the process of that.

So while we're getting towards the end, let's talk about, you know, where, where are you going?

Where's Baytown going?

Yeah.

As a place, what's is there, is there like goals that you are all working on?

Right now, obviously, you know, continuing to grow sales and everything else for sure, but other, like, specific goals that the whole team's working on.

Yeah, I think a couple of different things.

I think one thing that we're working on, we're trying to make sure our partnerships are really alive and well because we're.

We're lucky to have a lot of friends in the community.

And I think that we want to make sure that, like, we have.

We're lucky that we have such a vibrant.

To your point about Tiki Week, such a vibrant cocktail scene and bar scene here in Rochester that, like, I think we have a connection on that front and not something that's super common for the retail store to have that level of connection.

And that's something that we're going to continue working with because we've had people who are friends of ours who are kind enough to contribute, like, featured cocktails in the past, and that's something we want to keep going with.

Obviously, we just want to keep our curated selection.

Like what I was saying about the Ramen mezcal.

It's.

I want to keep on top of that, make sure we continue to have the best things available and things that I'm passionate about, that we're all passionate about.

Drew with his selection of, you know, he went down a Corsican wine rabbit hole very recently.

So, yeah, you know, just stuff on that front and keeping it.

Injecting that level of fun and passion into what we're doing, I think is a big part of it.

And just.

Yeah, more.

More collaborative work.

Like, even.

Just not even in the space of, like, industry partnerships, but even a little outside of industry that, like, I've done one or two things with the Women of Laughing Gall as, like, oh, they're awesome.

They are so cool.

They really are.

And they're great people.

They are.

So much so.

And I love what they do.

And it's something where we did one seminar with them, planning on another one.

So stuff like that.

Where.

And, you know, to your point about.

We were talking about coffee earlier.

Like, I'd love to be able to pair up with.

With some of the local folks on that front, you know, because that.

I've got you covered.

Very good.

Happy to help with that.

Thank you.

But that's one of the great things is when you have.

When I've.

When you got friends who are just trying to do good things.

Yeah.

There's so many people that just want to contribute.

Yeah.

And that's what I think is the best about it.

Yeah.

And, like, I Would love to, like, come up with a cocktail to put in there.

Yeah.

Oh, please.

Seriously, that would be fun.

I love the process of doing that.

Yeah.

And making syrups is so much fun.

Isn't it, though?

So, yeah, let's.

Let's finish off with that.

Have you.

Do you make syrups at home at all or.

I do, and it's something that I.

I want to experiment more with.

But, like, I.

There's a, like, one cocktail build that I've been working on of my, like, an original that I've been doing for, like, years.

And so every year when, like, the cherries are ripe and I can get like a nice bag of ripe cherries, I make a cherry demerara syrup, which is honestly not.

Not like, as complex as it could be.

I know some people are like, oh, I've got these several spices in it that are toasted to different levels.

And, like, I'd like to do more of that.

But right now it's.

It's just like a cherry demerara.

But it does come in handy both on the tiki side.

And I haven't experimented with it as much on this side, but I think it would work really well with just like a more cherry forward.

Bourbon is like an old fashioned, so that for one thing.

And yeah, when you're into tiki, you're kind of forced to make a fair amount of syrups at home too.

That's fair.

Yeah.