Welcome to the Reality Check podcast. Psychosis is Real, so is Recovery.

On this episode, co-founders Dr Ashley Weiss and Serena Chaudhry speak with Father, Philanthropist, and Author Tripp Friedler. Tripp is the founding partner and CEO of FreeGulliver. He first wrote FreeGulliver: Six Swift Lessons in Life Planning and his second book, The Tunnel, is a powerful and haunting memoir that captures the raw pain of him and his wife, Heidi losing their son Henry.

On this episode we talk to Tripp about his son Henry who had bipolar disorder and died by suicide, the need for early intervention, and, the need for more empathy for those who struggle and suffer from mental illness.

For more information about Clear Answers to Louisiana Mental Health (CALM) and their Early Intervention Psychosis Program (EPIC NOLA) visit the website: www.calmnola.org

You can connect with Tripp via his website www.freegulliver.com and download or purchase his books from all good booksellers including Amazon.

Ashley: I'm Dr. Ashley Weiss, I'm a child adolescent psychiatrist. And I'm

Serena: Serena Chaudry. I'm a clinical social worker.

Ashley: And we are the co founders of Epic NOLA, which is the Early Psychosis Intervention Clinic in New Orleans. And also the co founders of CALM, Clear Answers to Louisiana Mental Health.

Serena: Alright, I'm so happy we're here today with Tripp Friedler, who is the author of the book, The Tunnel. Um, he's become a friend and he is the father of a former patient, uh, at the early psychosis intervention clinic. And we're really, uh, grateful for you to be here with us today, Tripp, especially this week, um, the anniversary of

Tripp: it's, um, thank you.

Serena: Right. I know that. I imagine one day doesn't necessarily stand out more significantly than the other, but all that to acknowledge, uh, that, uh, this week is and to, um, remember Henry.

Serena: So we wanted to, uh, start by having you read a passage from the tunnel so that our readers can hear, our readers, our listeners can hear. And then the book.

Tripp: So, um, clearly it should not still be affecting him. Um, and so that, and he had just gone to see my therapist. Um, to explain to him how crazy I was. So um, I'm going to read this. I hung up with Andre and immediately called Henry's friend, John, who I knew better than Steve. John told me that they had indeed ordered the mescaline online and that he and Steve had a normal psych, psychedelic experience and had come down from their high.

Tripp: John was concerned about Henry. When they had left him, they were still a little high, but everything seemed fine. Hearing my description of Henry worried. Henry stayed in this altered state for a few days. It seemed he had slipped from a masculine high to a more permanent altered state. I was confused.

Tripp: His voice was high pitched. Watching him, it seemed like he was experiencing everything for the first time. He would finish a sentence with a sentence with another sentence. Like his brain was sprinting, but his mouth was jogging. And what was coming out made no sense. His ideas were hard to follow at a normal pace.

Tripp: Throw in that this is happening to your son, and your own lostness is multiplied. Nothing made sense to me, yet everything seemed to make sense to Henry. He thought he had unlocked the answers to the universe, ready for whatever came his way. This person talking to me looked like Henry, but it wasn't Henry.

Tripp: It was beyond unnerving, watching your son fully awake and spouting nonsensical garbage is a waking nightmare. So that's one little, one little piece.

Tripp: Well, it's interesting, um, so I tell this story often, it's what affected, I, I read a, it's not really a poem, it's, it's called a poem, but it's. It's between, um, Kurt Vonnegut and Joe Heller. Um, Joe wrote Catch 22 and Kurt Vonnegut wrote Fahrenheit 451. And they're at a party at a hedge fund mobile's house. I was a billionaire, multi billionaire.

Tripp: And Kurt Vonnegut goes to Joe Heller, Joe, do you realize this guy made more yesterday than you made your entire career in Catch 22? And Joe Heller goes, well, that may be true, Kurt, but I have something he doesn't have. And Joe and Kurt goes, Joe, what do you have that he doesn't have? And Joe Heller goes, well, I have enough.

Tripp: And it became a catharsis, really, a way of me of working out my issues around how I was complicit, perhaps, or, or sort of my journey of, of dealing with my son's disease and dealing with his ultimate death. And, um, and so it really became a way for me to tell our story in a way that was helpful to me, first and foremost.

Tripp: So it's a way for me to own a story that, that other people really have no idea about. So that's how it came about.

Ashley: Yeah, that's um. You, like, feel that when you're reading it, uh, kind of this, like, push and pull between wanting to be a father, but also looking at your child who doesn't see, who's not themselves, uh, which creates distance, you know, it's kind of all happening at the same time.

Tripp: Right. It's, it's like living in, you know, never, never land. It's, it's, um, the interesting thing is, you know, first of all, when you deal with mental illness, which comes with a stigma that's so unjustified, um, and so unwarranted, You know, you tell someone your son has cancer and they're showing up with castles, you tell your friend, someone, you tell someone your son has bipolar disorder and it's.

Tripp: Which is a difficult thing for parents to, to get, to get their hands around because while it's Henry's journey, and as you all know, it's the family's journey as well. And so you're caught in this no man's land, given the fact that society is so judgmental, you're, you're just caught. And so, you know, it's one of the things that was a lifesaver to me, which you guys know.

Tripp: It's, it's no fun. So, you know, it's, it's really, it's really difficult. And, and having a community to talk to is hugely important. Hugely important, and it's hard to find.

Serena: Yeah. You, unfortunately, capture that feeling of being stuck and being uncertain of how much to share and what to share with whom. You captured that.

Tripp: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, You know, it's hard, I mean, it's hard on everybody, right? It's just hard. I mean, it's, you want to think it's not, but, you know, some people, some people have a little easier road than others and, um, but, you know, your heart goes out to the people who are struggling with it, both, you know, both the patient and, and the family.

Tripp: Um, because they're, they're just different kinds of struggles. And as you go through it, and people are witnessing it, and you know, a lot of times it's not just the mental illness, it's the, it's the drugs that they might take to mask their pain and all the different ways that they might act out. And so you're, you know, people are more than willing to give you advice on how to raise a child.

Tripp: And so, you know, the wings could both fall off and the engines all fall off, but yet it's pilot error. And if you think about it, it's a survival mechanism, right? It's what they do to go up in that plane. And I think parents, God bless them, would like to think that if they're a good parent, this won't happen to them.

Tripp: You know, I don't know what it's like to personally experience it cause I, I was, I didn't suffer from bipolar disorder. I just know what it was like from the outside and, you know, and, and then all the parents saying, well, you need, you need to be tough love. You know, I, I love that concept of tough love. I don't think there, I think that's a ridiculous notion to be honest with you.

Tripp: I don't think anyone ever exercises tough love. My belief is you just get so exhausted that you have nothing left,

Ashley: right?

Tripp: And you just

Ashley: I don't, uh, it just like struck me that like we were kind of doing this together and that.

Tripp: Yeah. I mean, it was everyone's loss, right? It's not just our loss. And so, you know, one of the things I, and through the book, you know, I'm pretty hard on myself in the book and it's very, extremely vulnerable in the book, but I come to the end and, and I think the point I try to make and the point I would tell you.

Tripp: Clearly it's, it's definitely true. Emotionally, it just doesn't register. And so, you know, you just have to wrap your head around the fact that it's a horrible loss and you did the best you could, you know, and you know, it's just. At the end of the day, um, that's all we can do is the best we can do and, you know, there's a great, my therapist gave me, um, a great analogy of a, of standing, I'm standing on my father's shoulders.

Tripp: And he goes. He can't see it, right? And so sometimes we, we fault people where they have literally no ability to do anything. And so we all come to the world with our own histories and our own versions of everything and, and our own stories. And that's how we build our future stories. You know, we can only be, we only grow through events like this.

Tripp: And an incredible ability to see the world differently and to be a little more empathetic and to be a little more compassionate and to be a better person. And for that, I am grief, though, you know, I wish it had never happened.

Ashley: Right. Well, that's the, that's exactly the simultaneous having two things that exist, you know, that

Tripp: exist out there.

Tripp: Yeah. It's, you don't get to choose, right? I mean, it. You don't get to choose. And so my heart goes out for people who are experiencing this now Because it's rough. It is rough. It's i'm not going to sugarcoat it It's doesn't have to end the way my ended but it no matter how it ends and hopefully it never ends Um, it's still rough, you know, it's not fun

Ashley: Yeah, and I think people want to want though to make sense of it and to blame, you know, and You know, no matter, like, no matter what, because it's just too hard.

Ashley: It's like too painful to think about it. Tolerate. Right.

Tripp: That's for sure. Um,

Serena: for sure. Uh, you said a couple of things I just wanted to circle back to when you talked about doing the best you can and how, uh, you know, y'all did the best you can. We the other providers in Henry's life did the best they could and he did the best he could. Right. He engaged. He engaged.

Serena: He tried. You know, Yeah. Yeah, the best is. the best and we work hard and just the reality that it isn't enough, but trying to, uh, remind people that others are doing their best, even if that doesn't seem obvious from the outside. And then the other thing you said before is it's, you know, an The individual who's struggling and it's their challenge.

Serena: Clear answers to Louisiana mental health and our attempts to. to, uh, intervene early, detect psychosis early, and de stigmatize because this one, this one illness in these young people has a ripple effect that is strong and devastating and destructive.

Tripp: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, um, you know, when I was, when I passed somebody, you know, talking to themselves or on the street and clearly in some form of psychosis, you know, my first thought goes to Henry, um, and, but for the grace of God, you know, and so, you know, it's just, it's just so harsh to judge and, and really there's no win in that anyway.

Ashley: Or no one, no one even to.

Ashley: acknowledge that, that there's pain or there's confusion or lost time with people that you love or lost time in school or in work. And it's, um, you know, I think that Serena and I talk a lot about, you know, we talk a lot about stigma and talk a lot about empathy and then, you know, that there's this super strong relationship.

Ashley: Between them, because it's, I think people don't want to step into the shoes of someone that might be going through this, like it's too weird, it's too scary,

Tripp: you

Ashley: You know, when society thinks about, thinks about bipolar disorder, thinks about schizophrenia, thinks about someone that's psychotic, the, the image that automatically pops in their head is so far from like Henry.

Tripp: Right. No, and Far from reality. Right. Mm hmm. It's, I mean, yeah, I, it's, you know, life is hard regardless, right?

Tripp: Life is just hard. I mean, anyone whose life is not hard, I envy them, but Well, life is hard. I mean, every day you wake up and you do the best you can and you try to move forward. And then when you're confronted with something that's different, right, we, we like to say, you know, the human nature to say, well, that's them, not me.

Tripp: I'm like, I'm like, man, this is where society really let this person down. Because one of the interesting things that I'll never forget. Um, I think it was Serena. You told it to me, but it's every time you go through psychosis, it's like, it's like being in a car accident, right? And you hit your head and it's just, you know, it, it's, it's a definite injury.

Tripp: Now, if you don't want to spend it, that's on you, but money for the solution, you don't have a problem. But some problems there is no money for the solution and believe me we try Putting money towards this solution It's just there's you know at the end of the day. It's it's not a money problem You know, it's it's a [00:25:00] societal problem that Society has to be willing to embrace these kids really while they're kids and be willing to do something try something different to make to give them a chance at a decent life because When you see those 40 year olds on the street, talking themselves.

Tripp: Those are people who at 20 never had a chance

Ashley: Right exactly and it kind of not to get on the soapbox But you know you mentioned like other than and it's such like an other ring type of thing happens and with all of what it's all everything that's happening now in the world with Like equity diversity inclusion and this like spirit of that.

Ashley: They're people.

Tripp: And they're not,

Ashley: it

Tripp: doesn't matter if they're young, it doesn't matter. They're somebody's child. Right. Or somebody's husband and somebody's, you know, it's somebody's baby. And so, yeah, it's really, really tough. I'd I'd You know, but, but then again, have some empathy. I try to have empathy for others and understand that, you know, they just don't know.

Tripp: And that's one of the reasons why when you read, that's one of the frustrations when I have people I know well, who say, well, they don't want to read the book because it's too painful. Well, no shit. Excuse my language about living through it, right? And just because you don't read it. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Serena: Right. And it's not going to happen again.

Tripp: To gain a little insight into what it might be like. You know, God bless you.

Ashley: Yeah.

Tripp: Um, God bless you because you're never gonna, you're never gonna evolve into the person that you could be.

Serena: Well, that I think is a fair place to, uh, wrap this up. And I think the call to action is to read the book, spend the seven and a half hours.

Ashley: Like, you know, everyone's asking you to go and change the law and change, like, asking you to do it. We're asking you to do, like, a little bit,

Tripp: right? I mean, you know, we have a saying, ignorance is bliss. Right. Well, it truly is, right? So if you want to live a blissful life. Be ignorant. Right. If you want to leave a meaning, if you want to leave a life worth living, be curious.

Serena: Mm hmm. Absolutely.

Ashley: Well, uh, we're so happy that you are here and that we're still a part of your life. Well, yeah.

Serena: appreciate you. And I often think about how lucky we are that you still, yeah, that we're still part of your circle.

Serena: Because I imagine that there is value in that. There's also pain in that.

Tripp: Yeah. But the, yeah, there's pain in a lot of things. I don't feel an ounce of pain anytime I'm around at all. It's nothing but good. It's nothing but good memories. I think about Henry every day, all day, 24 hours a day. When I think about y'all, I think of the good things about Henry.

Tripp: I don't think of the bad things. So, um, you know, that's the other thing I can, I could leave you with is that if you, you know, if you come up, if this ever happens, if you ever have a friend or a loved one or anyone who goes through what we had to go through, just understand that. If you bring it up to them, they're thinking about it anyway, so, right.

Tripp: You don't have to worry about, about bothering

Tripp: You don't have to worry about icebreaker. Breaking up a subject that might make them upset. Trust me. Right. You know, they will be. They will be. They might be upset, they might cry, you know? But one of the things that I talk about a lot, which I believe is in life in general, is.

Tripp: You just got to learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And you know, you guys do it for a living, but you just have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. That's what your friends want. That's what they need. Yeah. That's the greatest gift you can give

Ashley: them. Yeah. Love

Serena: that. Thank you.

Tripp: All right.

Serena: y'all. Until next time. Thanks for taking the time to get your reality check. And remember. Psychosis is real, so is recovery.

Ashley: If you have enjoyed this episode or found it useful, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from and check out the website, calmnola.org.