Episode Summary: for the 100th episode of Carbon Session, we are thrilled to be joined by one of the most acclaimed best-selling authors Seth Godin, the ‘Host’ of the Carbon Almanac book. This influential project birthed numerous offshoot endeavours, including this very podcast!

In this insightful and intimate conversation, Seth touches on a wide range of topics including:

• how The Carbon Almanac is a project that has changed Seth “almost at the molecular level”
• his observations of what is going well and not so well in the realm of climate change
• how to elevate conversations when there are valid disagreements on both sides
• two significant changes that he's realised have an enormous impact on climate change (cows and flying)
• the need for creating cultural change that is focused on resilience and equity in addressing climate issues
• why it might be necessary to seek out solutions that require considerable effort and aren't always convenient
• what keeps Seth up at night (climate refugees and the global food system)
• how personal action can trigger systemic change (leaf blowers and community action)
• the concept of “page 19 thinking”
• strategies for challenging and changing the status quo (exemplified in the field of dentistry)

To listen to the episode on The Carbon Almanac Origin Story, Idea to Project in 24 Hours and Coming Together in Community to Change Culture

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon's best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

----- 

Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Brian Tormey, Olabanji Stephen, Steve Heatherington, Jenn Swanson, Rob Slater, and Kristina Horning 

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert, and podcaster from Paris, France. 

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US. 

Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria. He’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work.

From a  beautiful valley in Wales, UK, Steve is a Podcast Coach, Producer, and Alpaca Shepherd. Steve is fascinated by the ideas of regeneration beyond sustainability and is still a biologist at heart. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer, and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

Rob is from Birmingham in the UK, he is an orthodontist, triathlete, coach, and podcaster.

Kristina is working on design theory and using the design process in everything. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US.

----- 

The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington, and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Ima.

I live in Scotland.

Hi, I'm Jen and I'm from Canada.

Hi, I'm Aji and I'm from Nigeria.

Hello, I'm Leaky and I live in Paris.

Hey, I'm Rod.

I'm from Peru.

Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

A podcast with carbon conversations for every day with everyone

from everywhere in the world.

In our conversations, we share ideas, perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

So don't be shy.

Join our carbon sessions because it's not too late.

Okay.

Hello?

I'm.

I'm . I'm Christina.

I'm Rob.

I'm Jen.

I'm Steve.

And I'm Brian's.

And we are pleased to welcome everyone to today's episode of Carbon Sessions.

It's a very special day today because it's both our 100th episode and we have a very,

very special guest with us today, leaky.

Let me turn it over to you to do the honors of introducing today's guest.

Okay.

Thank you, Brian.

I'm very excited today to introduce you, our guest, Seth Goodin, the

founding editor, the brand instigator.

The maestro behind the Carbon Almanac, and behind.

So many other powerful projects have been launched within the community,

including these very podcast.

So SE is the offer of 20 international bestselling books and have changed the

way people think about work and have been translated into 38 languages.

SE writes the most popular marketing blog in the world and speaks

to audiences around the world.

Se is the founder of the old mba, the former of c e of Social media pioneers,

qui the former VP of direct marketing at Yahoo, and the founder of Udine, one

of the very first internet companies.

Welcome Seth.

I'm just so blown away.

100 episodes.

What a crew.

Wow.

Well done.

And thank you.

So Seth, you've got a great story about the genesis of the Carbon oac, which.

We talked through on the Carbon Collective Podcast, episode 15, one of the last, oh,

actually the last episode of the series.

So we won't go into that day, but we encourage our listeners to go listen

to that conversation Between you and Nikki, the editor-in-chief of Portfolio

of Penguin Random House, and it's a lovely episode, discussing why you

started this, where the idea came from.

And what you accomplished in 24 hours and how you choose

the Almanac format for the book.

So my very first question to you today, um, it's been 18 months since you've

started working on the Carbon Almanac product and almost nine or 10 months

since the carbon arm neck was published.

What do you think is going well and what do you think is going not so well?

Oh boy.

So much to cover.

Okay.

So the world has an epidemic of loneliness and we also have an

epidemic of, for, uh, following the place where we live, leaving behind

a mess for other people to clean up.

And they're sort of relating.

And one of the things that I discovered is that the internet is

a fine place to meet caring people.

To make connections that could last a lifetime, that the internet enables

you to look at somebody who's only one inch by one inch on your screen, but

know that that person would put you up for the night if you were in town.

Know that somebody is walking in the same direction as you.

And in a world where so many people feel helpless or without meaning,

the last year and a half have shown so many of us in this circle.

That it's possible if you extend yourself, that others will extend them.

And that gives me optimism about our climate because the earth

doesn't care if the weather changes.

We do.

And it's beyond discussion.

People who care at all about their reputation is being thoughtful.

No longer talk about the fact that the climate is changing.

It is.

And then the question is what to do about it.

And.

What this crew figured out is that while the world wanted a shortcut,

they wanted a palliative, they wanted something that would make

them feel good for five minutes.

We refused to do that, and we just said, here's what you need to know.

Here's what you're gonna need to know, regardless of whether someone comes out

with single use laundry sheets or not, regardless of whether you decide to

fly on an airplane ever again or not.

Because knowing leads to conversation and conversations lead to connection.

And connection leads to better.

Wow.

Thank you.

Thank you for that answer.

Um, so today we're recording our hundredth episode of Carbon Sessions.

And Carbon Sessions is a podcast where we have conversations on

climate change and the environment, you know, with everyday people from

just about anywhere in the world.

Um, it's been a year and we've had so many fantastic conversations

on diverse topics like food.

Food systems, energy systems, transportation, health, and so on.

One time we interviewed, um, an E S G professor in London.

We've also had rare earth engineers in Australia.

We've had bikes, activists in the us, um, a tequila distiller in South America,

golfers and like so many people, um, that we've been privileged to meet.

When we started, we actually thought that we would run out of topics

or things to talk about very fast.

But the more we have these conversations, the more we want to

talk about climate change, the more we wanna talk about the environment.

We meet people that also want to do the same.

And so now we only don't know if we're ever going to run out, but we don't

want to and we don't see coming soon.

Um, but while we explore this multifaceted approaches to, to climate

change, sometimes we come across people that don't see the challenge

from the same angle that we see it.

Or do not necessarily agree with what needs to be done

or how it needs to be done.

We, we feel, we feel like climate change is a we problem, and that's why we're

here having conversations about it.

And we need to incorporate all the points of view since we can't

solve the problems by ourselves.

But to give you an example, um, some argue that clean energy is an excuse that some

people in rich countries used to prevent.

Poorer countries from economic development because the use of clean energy has

more constraints and it's expensive.

Um, they say that it's a way to sort of maintain economic dominion, but

the argument is that, well, the rich countries developed using greenhouse

gases and now they're saying poorer countries should not do the same.

and so the question for you is why should poorer countries.

Be limited to the use of fossil fuel resources since it's the

cheapest, the fastest way to develop.

And how do we respond with empathy to, to this discussion?

Oh, well, glad we're starting with something easy.

Um, here's, here's what my take on it is, speaking as myself,

not as an almanac person.

Uh, It is a we problem, but it does not need to be a unanimous solution.

There are no problems that are ever solved by everybody and at some

level, and not people you're talking about here, but in general at some

level we will encounter troll.

We will encounter people who profit from the status quo.

We will encounter people who like being the one who's shouting fire

movie in a crowded firehouse.

But we need to ignore those people.

And realize that systemic, cultural and technical change is the only path

we have for, given that that's the case, I have a take as a technologist

on what I think somebody in, uh, a country that has been disenfranchised

should want their country to develop.

But even before we get there, it's very clear that a.

Colonial powers will do everything they can to stay powerful, and b hemispheres

are still part of the big circle, and it doesn't do you any good to get

more rich if you're also under one.

So if you're thinking about a country like Bangladesh, Bangladesh is going to

lose tens of millions of people who will either perish or become climate migrants.

In my lifetime, that is more expensive.

Than solar power.

So I wish that Bangladesh going solar would be sufficient to solve the problem.

I'm only bringing it up because even though it's not Bangladesh's fault

that carbon has risen the way it has, they're gonna have to bear the brunt

of it because the earth doesn't care.

The Earth is doing, gonna do what the Earth does.

With all that said, my friend Jacqueline, Jacqueline, who runs the

Acumen Fund, has pioneered an enormous amount of work and off grid energy.

Off-grid energy is extraordinarily powerful for, uh, developing or

previously colonialized countries.

And the reason is it takes control of the power grid away from plutocrats

and people that would seek to extract the maximum amount of revenue.

And diversifies number two is over time it gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper.

So that bringing.

Solar lanterns to a small village is way cheaper than wiring them high power line.

And once solar lanterns show up, enough economic activity ensues

that you can afford to buy a solar generator and then something that

burns rice husks or whatever it is.

So what I have seen in, uh, in Kenya, what I've seen in India, what

I've seen in other countries that are adopting off grid energy is.

This is exactly what the rich companies would've countries would've

done in 1900 or 1800 if they had had the chance, but they didn't.

So the same way we saw South Korea leapfrog so much of the world when it came

to cellular connection, cuz they didn't have to get rid of their old system.

Were gonna see a lot of countries leapfrog in this direction as well.

One small side about South Korea in 1962, South Korea was the third poorest.

Country in the world poorer than Haiti, and now it's one of the five

richest countries in the world.

That happened because of a technical advance, not because they went back

and tried to start from 1800 and catch up, that the real win for countries

that had been left out of this conversation is not to go back to burning

whale oil and then follow the path.

The real win is to take advantage of the breakthroughs that have happened in

solar and other things, and leap product.

Oh my goodness.

Seth, two rants in a row.

Two questions, two rants.

We love it.

We love it.

Seth, that was, that was like an inspiring series of examples

that are sort of feeding into my question that I have for you.

You know, so for myself, since getting involved in the Carbon

Almanac, I've learned so many amazing things, which had both inspired me

to change my own behaviors as well as improve my hope for the future.

So from the bottom of my heart, thank you for getting this book and

the results and community going.

Um, I'm curious, is there a detail or a factor, a bit of knowledge

that you've learned from the Carbon Almanac community that still impacts

your behavior today or helps you to have more hope for the future?

Well, there are two to your question.

One is things I learned about the climate that have changed my behavior.

Um, the two biggest, easiest thing.

Are cows and travel and I can't stop drinking milk or eating

meat cuz I haven't in 30 years.

But it has made me aghast that even though there are people who are informed and

who care and who will acknowledge that between 20 and 30% of the challenge we

face comes from one thing, the billion cows on earth that we have not, uh,

Had a more significant conversation about just killing all billion cows and

moving on because we can and we should, and most people on Earth won't change

the way they eat or live if we do and right there, we will make a huge impact.

Um, but when I blog about things like that, that's when I get the

nastiest mail because I think that there are a lot of people who.

Would like to just pretend that they don't have to change anything in their life

or their livelihood to deal with this problem, that it's not important enough.

Um, and then the second thing is, uh, as somebody from the wealthiest

part of the wealthiest part of the world, uh, I'm aware that I gave a

thousand speeches and that I would fly there and fly back right away.

So I haven't gotten on an airplane for work in more than two years,

and I have no plans to do it again.

My life has gotten significantly better.

I've reached even more people.

The miracle of this conversation where we are on at least three continents,

um, is proof that if the airplane was invented today, it would probably

not be used very much for business.

And we are just, you know, profligately burning stuff because we're used

to it, not because we have to.

Uh, but I don't think either of the two solutions I'm talking about are the key.

I think the key.

Is creating cultural change that is focused on, uh, resilience and equity, cuz

they go together and, you know, we have 7 billion jobs on this planet in 1900.

There weren't a hundred million, 200 million jobs on this planet,

where'd they all come from?

The jobs came from us inventing them.

And the same way we know how to invent jobs.

We know how to invent a culture that is resilient.

And I am heartened that in the last two years, the conversations

about that are coming up often in many generations of people on

many countries around the planet.

So I'm not sure people feel technically competent enough to argue, uh, the

details of methane, but I think everybody understands that acting like a short term.

Uh, selfish person is not who they want.

Yeah, that's beautifully said.

As a as, actually, and I don't know that you know this, as a former,

I grew up raising cattle, beast cattle, um, that we were just joking

at the preamble at this session.

We, I now, we now switched over to cashmere goats and produced

fiber instead on the farm.

Um, that was a beautiful answer.

I, I married a vegan and happily lived this like gifted life of, of

dietary shift and it's, I will say for our listeners, it's so easy.

There's so many amazing tasting things out there, so help make that shift.

Christina, we're handed it over to you.

You said that you are so productive and impactful in your days.

Can you share with us how do you structure your day and how do you

balance work and personal life?

The first thing I wanna say is, uh, There's no such

thing as work-life balance.

There's just life and you can spend some of your life at work.

But this idea that there's some sort of magical balance is a myth.

And what I decided to do was embrace certain things that were

uncomfortable once and then I never had to deal with them.

So I don't go to meetings.

I don't have a staff.

I don't watch television unless my wife makes me watch a half an hour.

Um, and I write a blog post every day.

Well, that gives me seven hours that most people, and I don't use social

media, so that gives me seven hours that most people don't have every day.

I decided once.

And so now I have these habits and I'm actually not that productive.

I spend most of my day, if I had a camera in here eating chocolate

and wandering around looking at things, that's most of my day.

Um, sometimes more chocolate, sometimes less chocolate, but that's most of my day.

Um, But the difference between me and many people is I ship stuff and

you know, Netflix just announced that they're going to make quote,

fewer movies, but better movie.

And the guys who run Pixar told me that they were only capable

of making one good movie a year.

This is nonsense.

This is nonsense that you don't increase the quality of what you do by doing less.

You increase the quality of what you do by doing more and then picking

the good stuff and shipping that.

And so you haven't seen the 4,000 block posts I've erased and you haven't

seen the three entire books worth of writing I've done, then I've deleted.

But if I hadn't done that, if I just been sitting around waiting for

better, nothing would've happened.

Um, I think it's me.

Hi, Jen.

Hi.

Nice to see you.

Um, spearheading a project as big as the Carbon Allman Act is, is quite a feat.

Um, keeping volunteers on track and, and leading while not taking

charge in an overt way, letting people create and express themselves.

And, and now there's this global movement that seems to have a life of its own.

And so my question, I have two questions.

What do you hope for or dream for as far as this particular collective goes?

And as a follow up as far as the climate goes, what keeps you awake at night?

Um, I didn't spearhead the project.

I hosted the project and every time I felt like I needed to spearhead it,

I knew I was doing the wrong thing because I've made almanac before.

I could have done this myself if I had had nine or 10 years of time.

And the where was altar stick with it, but it would've been a tiny fraction of

the magic that is here now, that my most important job was to create the conditions

for each of you to do what you did.

People I have never met in person to connect with each other and

build something that I couldn't even have imagined, and I didn't

want my name to be on the cover.

The publisher insisted, it's not my book, but I was the hoax.

And what keeps me up at night is pretty simple.

It was 90 degrees here in New York, it's April.

That's what kept me up.

And um, the weather is not the climate, but the weather is here and it's here now.

And the question is, when this gets worse, it's going to get worse.

It's gonna get so much worse.

What will we do with the 50 million climate refugee?

What will we do?

With people who can't find enough to eat because our temptation as panicked

humans will be to just burn more stuff.

And so I'm not here to preach Armageddon.

I'm just here to say you're about to send a message to the you in five

years and the you in five years is gonna ask you what you were doing five

years ago when we were something to do.

And.

That doesn't mean we have to sacrifice our entire lives, but it means

this is the one, you don't have to have a political point of view.

You don't have to have seen any science fiction movies.

You just have to realize in this moment, industrialism isn't

the answer, it's the problem.

And we're gonna have to find ways that are inconvenient and filled

with effort to get back on track.

And I think there's all generation people coming along.

Who are aware of that?

Yeah, I think that's, that's very true.

Um, Seth, speaking of sort of, you know, those inconveniences and, and

getting uncomfortable, um, one of the messages in the Carbon Almanac is that

we need systematic change, but we also need individual change because it's the

sum of all of those individual actions and behaviors that create a culture.

In the site to stop and reverse climate change.

We need, uh, this drastic shift in our own mindsets and overall community,

uh, mindset in how we consume, how we travel, as you've just spoken about,

how we interact with each other.

So individual change, change is also important because it can help

lead to that systematic change.

Uh, we're very proud of our fellow Carbon Almanac community members

advocating for personal action change.

Like one of our prior guests, Josh Spick, uh, who sh shared

his sustainable life journey.

And travel, their lack of travel and many other changes on this podcast.

And our colleague Lori Sullivan, who has recently published a book titled A Shade

Greener At Home, um, a Room by Room Guide to Reduce Toxins, lighten Your Environment

to Footprint and Live Simpler and in honor that book and, and it's title.

I wanted to ask you.

Sorry, your comment.

Is there any personal action or systematic change that you'd like

to share with our audience today?

Something that maybe we can all consider enacting to help our world

be a shade greener, or maybe just a lens for which you look at your

individual decisions or actions and how they can influence systematic change.

I th I think that personal actions are important for two reasons

and not important for a third.

They're important if they change the way.

The people around you act and they're important if they remind

you to keep doing systemic work.

So I have enough of an ego that I think that me not flying to conferences makes

it more likely that conferences invite some speakers to speak virtually.

And if some speakers get better at speaking virtually more conferences

will invite speakers to speak virtually, and then conferences won't

have any attendees in real life.

And so me not flying has this really significant multiplier effect perhaps.

Plus, every day that I'm giving up 80% of my income by not flying,

I'm reminding myself that I have put my money where my mouth is.

So I bet put my mouth back in because what's the point of putting

your money where your mouth is if you don't put your mouth in?

On the other hand, I do not believe that me.

Recycling.

One square of aluminum foil is going to do anything to the

climate that anybody can measure.

That's not a good reason to do it.

So it's this weird dilemma, which is, yes, the system is the sum of our action.

The question is, which act?

So the example I like to give is, in addition to cows, one of

the most egregious, easy to fix.

Problems with climate in the United States and Canada is two

stroke engines in leaf blower.

Using a leaf blower for one hour produces as much nitrous cells, whatever, uh,

carbon equivalent as driving a pickup truck from New York to Los Angeles.

Now, if you had a neighbor who regularly just sent pickup trucks from New

York to Los Angeles for no reason.

You would point out to them that that's sort of stupid.

But there they are with, they got a tussle in their garage, but they're

using that leafblower for an hour.

So you could do the first thing, which is, I'm not gonna use a leaf blower.

That's nice.

But what you really could do with almost as much effort, not much more, is make

leaf floors against the law in your town, because as soon as leaf floors

are against the law in your town, people just switch to rakes or battery operated

leaf floor and the problem will go away.

And in my town, leaf floors are against law for six months, a year.

That makes no sense.

And I'm pushing, I'm pushing for 12.

Why isn't it happening?

Because there's four landscape contractors who are used to the old

way, and so how to get them to change.

They don't live in town.

Well, the way to get them to change is to have their clients say, we

don't want you using that on our yard.

And if only 10 clients said it, they would stop.

So these sorts of action.

Cuz if it's in three towns, then the contractor's gonna just give up, right?

And then it's gonna be in 20 towns and it's gonna be, and then all of a sudden

leaf blowers, the manufacturer can say, it's not worth making them anymore.

We're done.

That's so much more impactful than you quietly in the safety of your own homes

using one less piece of aluminum foil.

So yes, I'm totally in favor, personal action, but I wanna remind people.

All systemic action that we are proud of in our world has begun

with people taking community action.

I love that.

Well, Ted, hi Seth.

It was such a big project, this getting the, the Almanac done and,

and almost when it was done, when it was published, that was the end.

Well, no, but it wasn't.

And there's still a process that's still going on, but when, when you

doing such a big thing, the early steps rarely look like the final destination.

Mm-hmm.

So I just curious about the, did the progress that the work took that, did

it follow the path you were expecting?

Well, or was it a surprise and, and was the No, it's a great question, Steve.

Um, and how is Dylan, because we haven't heard an update about Dylan, is he Okay.

He's doing really well, actually.

Yes, he's doing good.

Um, new house, but he's doing well.

So, uh, Brian asked or somebody asked about post publishing and leadership.

The thing that is so thrilling for me is that this thing that you're doing

has been going on for a hundred episodes without me even participating in any way.

That was the goal is to have dozens, hundreds of leaders who then bring on.

Dozens, hundreds of other people who lead to more leaders.

It wasn't about making a book, it was about making a community of action

as for what it was like to bill.

So I've done 140 books, 120 as a book packager, 20 as a quote author.

Never missed a deadline.

I've never gotten over budget.

So people in publishing know that if I say something's gonna show up,

it's gonna show up and September.

Was fascinating cuz we weren't exactly sure about so many things.

But November and December, very scary because I thought one of the

straightforward problems to solve would be taking finished information and

laying it out in InDesign and we didn't have anybody who was ready to do it.

And.

My life, my career passed before my eyes in that moment because this was a step

I didn't anticipate, and it was fraught cuz we didn't have time to screw around.

Fortunately, a whole bunch of people showed up in a way that was

generous and thoughtful and selfless and magically through enormous

amounts of effort made it happen.

And that's what happened with every page of the Almanac.

In fact, with every fact, with every cartoon, with every fact check, it was

like, well, we don't know who's gonna do this, but someone's gonna do this.

And then they did.

And after the fact, we can point to any, you know, cathedral in e

in Europe, uh, any, uh, you know, the IBM 360 codebase name it.

Nobody knew when they started exactly how those things were gonna come together.

But the fact that we can talk about them afterwards is cuz they came together and

the key for me as the host was making sure the right people were in the room.

And most of the people who were in the room were people I didn't know in advance.

And they saw what needed to be done.

They brought page 19 thinking and they did it.

And the thrill to me, After the thrill of holding the book and

being so proud of what you did is knowing that you're continuing to

do this and that you don't need me to tell you or approve of any of it.

Cuz it's not mine.

It's just a party that keeps going.

Rob, it's your turn.

It's always your turn.

We're all admiring your headphones.

Rob.

Hide my ears.

So, um, I, I'm a work in progress, um, as you can see.

Um, and uh, in this last year I've made, um, um, a huge network of friends and

um, and I think that there's a lot that's changed in me in this last 12 months.

Uh, I have you and my network of friends to thank for that.

And I'm just wondering, Seth, um, how you feel the project has changed you?

How old?

I had to get chopped up, up.

Um, this has changed me at a very deep, almost molecular level.

My new book, which is out in a couple weeks, is part of this, the, one of

the symptoms of that different voice that's in my head, one that's about

humanity and possibility, uh, about, uh, generative as opposed to scarce solution.

You know, everybody on this call, everyone who's listening, either got sick, knows

someone who got sick or passed away.

From the worldwide pandemic that we don't even talk about it anymore.

Um, and so we're all older than we used to and we're all looking

about, how will I spend tomorrow?

Cause I don't get a chance to do it over again.

And when I think about the comfort and confidence and beauty that I

felt every single day, I mean, I was in discourse for 10 hours a

day, every day, seven days a week.

For nine months.

And I did it partly cuz it needed to be done and partly cuz I couldn't believe I

was able to do it, that I was lucky enough to hang out with this crew of people.

And I don't think I'm ever gonna go back to the person that I used to be.

It uh, there's a lot of sadness and grief about the state of our planet, but there's

also a lot of humanity and humility.

And joy that comes from seeing other people maybe who didn't win the birthday

lottery, maybe who have been on the short end of some stick when it comes

to social status or castor class.

But to see what humans are capable of when they're in sync and when they set

aside, you know, scarcity, it's thrilling and it gave me great hope for the future.

Thank you, Seth.

That's a beautiful answer.

The humility, uh, that you talk about, um, I suppose brings me onto

my next question, um, because in our business we're wrestling, uh, with

how we can influence our customers, uh, regulators and our suppliers.

And I'm just wondering how, if you have any thoughts on that.

Um, there is, there is a, a kind of supply and demand thing

in terms of sustainability.

I, I don't know which business you're in.

Does it matter?

Um, I happen to be an orthodontist.

So we use a lot of plastic, and I've been to exhibitions and

people have said, can we help you?

And when I ask them what their sustainability plans are and they

have this large quantity of plastic in front of them, um, it makes

them feel a little embarrassed.

Um, and I understood.

So, so I have a, I have a small rant about this.

You may have noticed, um, that worldwide, The Olympics, hold cities hostage against

them to bid against each other, to host something that's not gonna make money.

And in North America, and also with, with football, soccer in uh, Europe, the

same thing goes on with team ownership.

You know, the place where I'm from, a little town, uh, eight hours

from New York City called Buffalo, just spent a whole bunch of money.

They don't have to build a stadium they don't need for a football team

that doesn't care about Buffalo, but.

The game theory of it is if we don't, they're gonna go somewhere else.

Amazon did the same thing when they got cities to bid against each other

from the headquarters they never built.

And what I blogged about, and I was hopeful but not surprised when it didn't

happen, um, is that the city should just get together and sign a contract with each

other, and they should form a union and say, we're never gonna, we're gonna, there

are penalties for breaking this deal.

The deal is we're not gonna bid to steal a team from another city.

In the end, and then all of a sudden their power goes up.

So if I was an orthodontist doing important work that helps people for

the rest of their lives, I'd figure out how can I get an hour a day or an hour

a week to organize all the other odds?

Orthodontists I know who care about them.

Because if you are part of a group of a hundred or a thousand or 5,000

orthodontists, who can point and say this vendor instead of that vendor,

because we're keeping track of this.

You can back.

The vendors are gonna pay attention in a way they're not paying attention now.

And I think that it makes sense to form cartels that work to make

things better as opposed to cartels that just try to sell drugs.

Thank you, Seth.

I'll talk to my national society about just what you said.

They won't do it because they're filled with fear.

You're gonna have to do it without them because.

Think about what kind of person gets the job of executive director of a

national society, of whatever, right.

They signed up because it's a job where the phone doesn't ring very much.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, I, I did a talk years and years ago for the American

Heart Association and I bought my friend who's a cardiologist, and I

said, I don't think you guys really care about solving heart disease.

This was after like three hours of ranting and raving about the

marketing that leads to heart problem.

They said, you know, of course we do.

I said, I can tell you one thing right now that would save a hundred thousand

lives a year and you won't do it.

And they're like, yes, we would.

And I said, all you have to do is announce that every Tuesday is no

meat Tuesday, and use all of your connections and all of your leverage

to, and they said, we can't do that.

The farmers will be mad at us.

I said, like I said, you don't really care.

And the kind of people who work at the American Heart Association mean well,

but they also represent the status quo.

And if we're gonna change the status quo, we're gonna need to make new

associations, new cartels, new stories, because the very people who are

keeping us in place are the status quo.

Wow.

Thank you, Seth.

Maybe you can ask your question and then Jen can close the conversation.

Yeah, sure.

Um, and, and I had a question about your book, the Song of Significance,

but I'm glad that you, you sort of talked about it a little bit, um, in

answer to another question, but, So set.

Today's the day that you're traveling out of the planet Earth and you might

not be coming back anytime soon.

And, , you have a chance to leave the, the earth with three lessons,

maximums that everyone would live by.

What will those be?

Well, the first one's easy one in doubt.

Ask Alo Bji for advice.

That's the first L rule that everyone needs to learn.

Um, you know, the maxim makers have been very consistent for thousands of years.

Hmm, right?

They've come up with very simple reflexive rules about.

Treating the future like it's now about treating other people

the way you wanna be treated.

They're not very hard.

They have been abused for many generations by kings, by people who

seek power and by industrialists because you know, the invisible hand

of the market does solve a lot of problems, but it needs guidance and.

Culture doesn't exist to enable capital.

Capitalism enable is there to enable culture.

So I don't think that's a maximum, but I think the reason we need people

to remind us of what's important is because we have been so indoctrinated

by profit and power seeking folks who don't care about the walk.

So I have no great wisdom for you that I haven't blogged before.

But I will be bringing chocolate with me on my trip away from Earth.

Love it.

As you should.

Thank you so much.

It's a beautiful answer.

So, Seth, thank you so much for your time with us today.

This has been a marvelous carbon, uh, conversation,

carbon sessions conversation.

We're thankful that you sparked this wonderful project that has

grown into a highly interconnected international community.

That is making meaningful impact and impactful decisions

to help improve our future.

And, uh, and we are so, so grateful.

So do you have any final words before we sign off?

So, usually when I sign off, I tell people to go make a ruckus because the

implication is that they're not already.

And to the folks on this call, all I can say is thank you.

Thank you for helping me raise my game.

Thank you for trusting me.

Thank you for caring, and thank you for leaving.

Because you are making ruckus.

Thank you.

That's amazing.

Thank you, sauce.

Beautiful.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Take care everybody.

You've been listening to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with carbon

conversations for every day with everyone from everywhere in the world.

We'd love you to join the carbon sessions so you too can share your

perspectives from wherever you are.

This is a great way for our community to learn from your ideas and

experiences, connect and take action.

If you want to add your voice to the conversation, go to the

carbon almanac.org/podcast.

And sign up to be part of a future episode.

This podcast is also part of the Carbon Almanac Network.

For more information to sign up for the emails, to join the movement,

and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, go to the carbon almanac.org.

Be sure to subscribe and join us here again, as together