The Judgemental Podcast – Episode 16: Piling On

In this episode, Hugh and Christine dive into two headline-grabbing legal stories shaking up the courts:

• The Armand Langford Case (Louisville, KY):
• The hosts break down the controversial shock probation granted to a man with 19 prior robberies, who was rearrested for a violent home invasion and bank robbery. They discuss the judge’s unusual handling of the case, the statutory requirements for shock probation, and the broader implications for judicial discretion and public trust. Hear their candid reactions to the victim’s impact statement, the judge’s decision-making, and the media’s response.
• RICO Lawsuit in Missouri Family Court:
• Hugh and Christine explore a federal racketeering (RICO) case filed by a seasoned attorney against the St. Louis family court system. They unpack the allegations of organized corruption, quid pro quo custody decisions, and the challenges of exposing systemic issues in family law. The hosts reflect on their own experiences in family court and the difficulties faced by litigants and attorneys alike.

Other Highlights:

• Behind-the-scenes insights from the hosts’ YouTube coverage, including exclusive access to court hearings.
• A critical look at media coverage, judicial accountability, and the culture of protecting the system.
• Listener Q&A segment announcement—submit your questions for future episodes!
• Housekeeping: Connect with the show at judge-y.com and follow on YouTube (@judgingthejudges).

Listen for:

• Sharp legal analysis, unfiltered opinions, and a call for transparency in the justice system.
• Real stories from inside the courtroom, with a mix of humor and hard truths.

Links:

• YouTube: Judging the Judges
• Submit questions: judge-y.com

Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on justice, accountability, and the stories behind the headlines.

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Welcome to the Judgemental Podcast.

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Today is a current events day.

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We're gonna talk about

the armored Langford case.

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Armand.

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Langford case out of Louisville,

Kentucky, where a man with 19

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robberies was shock probated.

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He was rearrested on a home

invasion robbery of a bank, a PNC.

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And allegedly stabbed a woman.

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All of these allegations are alleged.

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LOL, how many times did I

say that in one sentence?

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Yep.

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Also, we are going to talk about a RICO

case that was filed against family court

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out of Missouri last time we did our

recap of the five different divisions.

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So we want your feedback.

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Also we did a special on YouTube.

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We've had, we were the first

people to release the sentencing

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and the shock probation hearing.

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Of Armand Langford on our

YouTube, it is youtube.com.

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Our handle is judging the judges

and just Google or search judge

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y, but you wanna get into it?

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Sure.

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All right.

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So, Armand Langford this was in

front of Judge Jessica Green.

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Just a super, super short recap.

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There was, I think it was August

8th, there was a woman was in St.

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Matthews.

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A man allegedly entered her house,

abducted her and her two minor children.

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At knife point, right?

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Yep.

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Made her drive to a PNC bank on

Shelbyville Road, allegedly stabbed

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her in the stomach or something.

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Narrowly missed her lung.

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Oh my gosh.

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And yeah.

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Demanded $20,000 from the bank.

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The bank complied.

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Put $20,000 on the ground.

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He grabbed it and ran and was

caught later that afternoon.

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Just down the street,

allegedly, allegedly.

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And then when he was rearrested,

come to find out he was on probation.

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For 19 robbery seconds and one burglary.

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First he had 14 years.

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14 year sentence.

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Yeah.

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And , at the sentencing we got to hear

from one of the victims and how she

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was terrorized and permanently injured.

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Mm-hmm.

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And was never gonna feel

safe and secure again.

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She was a badass.

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She was.

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Yeah.

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And so it was interesting 'cause

we initially got the shock.

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And so shock probation is something that

the judge has absolute discretion to do

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if it's a probation eligible offense.

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And essentially it has to be filed

30 days after sentencing and before

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180 days because after that 180 days

you become basically property of

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the Department of Corrections and

everything's gonna happen through parole.

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And through the executive branch.

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And when we were watching the

Shock, I mean, we were watching

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the shock probation hearing.

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It seemed like a foregone

conclusion, right?

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No, it did.

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It really felt like, okay, this

is what's going to happen next.

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Mm-hmm.

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And at the shock, I mean, there were

several things that were notable about it.

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As we pointed out in the YouTube

videos, during the sentencing, the

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judge set a hearing for shock probation.

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And shock Probation doesn't happen

unless the defense attorney files

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a motion and it has to be filed.

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30 days after the sentencing, but Oh yeah.

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That, that is like something

that cannot be understated.

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And that's why we got the sentencing.

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'cause we watched the shock

and I was like, what the fuck?

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You can't, like, it made no sense.

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No, it made no sense.

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Yeah.

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And then, it just became clear.

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The judge set the shock, told

the attorney to file the shock.

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So it was like, this is going to happen.

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Uhhuh.

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It was predetermined.

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And so, and this is a

very intelligent judge.

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This is somebody that Uhhuh

doesn't, this was not, I mean, so.

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Former prosecutor.

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Yeah.

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This was somebody who really knows

what they're doing, which is what

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concerns me is because it just

seemed like this was happening.

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Mm-hmm.

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This was all put in

place, special treatment.

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It was all perfu perfunctory.

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It certainly seemed like special treatment

because this is not a case and, I'm

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not the criminal attorney in the room.

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Yeah.

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You were the expert at

those kinds of things.

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You, you've made very clear this

is not your normal case for shock

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probation, not 19 violent crimes.

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No.

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Then all of a sudden, , and

it is not even that a defense

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attorney wouldn't make the motion.

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Yeah.

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Because the defense attorney's

going to make the motion.

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That's their job.

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But it was just presumed that this

person was going to be before this

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judge for shock probation, and the

judge just went ahead and, and set

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the hearing and then approached it.

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From the point of view that

she was granting it right from

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the very beginning basically.

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And the thing that's bizarre, like

when I saw it, I have never seen

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a shock hearing set at sentencing.

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It's not allowed by statute.

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It's KRS 4 39 2 85.

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I think that's right, but it has to

be after that 30 days, I reached out

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to an attorney in eastern Kentucky.

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I reached out to an attorney

in western Kentucky.

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I've never seen that happen.

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Thousands of cases I've watched.

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It was so bizarre.

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And I asked some Louisville

attorneys like, do you guys set

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shock hearings at sentencing?

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And then some of the feedback that

I got was, well, if the Commonwealth

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isn't objecting to shock as part

of the plea, they may set it for

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a hearing, which I still think is

a absolute violation of statute.

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Well, the statute says

how you have to do it.

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Yeah.

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And this is one of those things I know.

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It's like I get on my little soapbox,

it's super annoying, but I'm just like,

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Louisville makes up its own rules.

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Like, I was a practicing

attorney for almost five years.

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Tried, you know, class B felonies.

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I came into Louisville District

Court the first time I was here and

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I was like, oh, lucky, lucky you in

a different, a different country.

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Just because you guys say 17

acronyms doesn't mean you're smart.

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Like, it's like there is just this

in entitlement in the Louisville.

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Elected arena.

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Now, obviously I'm a big Louisville

fan as far as our food and our

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entertainment and blah, blah, blah.

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But I don't know.

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I was shocked that the judge did that.

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And then the fact that the judge

sentenced this man to 14 years and

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then probated him to his mommy's

house and to outpatient treatment,

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but also to mental health court and.

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Said over and over and over that

this was only gonna be if he

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gets accepted into mental health

court and is contingent on this.

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Yeah.

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He doesn't get accepted and then the order

comes out and never even mentions it.

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Yeah.

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So she didn't, I mean, you, we see

the order contradicts everything that

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she said in the sentencing, right?

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Well, and or I'm sorry.

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In the pro, , in the shock hearing.

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Well, it's like, and judges speak

through the written orders, which is

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like flashback to what an attorney

had to tell division five on Monday.

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That's true.

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I digress.

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But they do, they speak

through the written order.

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So in the, her oral rulings, I guess if

you wanna call 'em that is like, oh, I'm

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gonna shock you if you get into mental

health court, mental health court, mental

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health court, and I really hope you do.

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I really hope you do.

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And, and it's like, really

rooting for you here.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then he doesn't get in, it's

like, oh, I'm gonna do it anyway.

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And just says she was a, an order

that was, it was really shocking

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to release someone with I mean.

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One of my big takeaways from the

sentencing was that this defendant's

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mother is very impressive,

accomplished person, Uhhuh.

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Clearly he had a good family

system around totally to help and

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this stuff was still happening.

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And you, so the judge like

made the decision like, well.

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She's, she's smart, he's

got a good family system.

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We'll, just, , they're

obviously able to manage him.

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We're not gonna have, we're just

going to make him follow his

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mom's rules and live there and

not be accountable to anyone else.

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Yeah.

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And I'm a jackass.

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I completely interrupted you.

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We haven't even told everyone

listening about what the victim said.

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I'm so sorry about that.

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Oh, no, no.

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Go ahead.

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No.

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What did the victim, when she did

her victim in impact statement.

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Where she said that like

she was leaving a funeral.

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She was Oh yeah.

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Elderly.

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Oh yeah.

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She was going to the ATM to

buy the family from the funeral

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food, I mean, and got robbed.

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Yeah.

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So I mean it, it was

bizarre and it's bizarre.

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It's infuriating in and of itself

because there are victims here and

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another person actually got stabbed.

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And the kids, I think seven and

11 years old, one was autistic.

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Ugh.

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And had to sit there and ride

with the car, in the car with

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someone who had a knife up to

their, their mom's neck, allegedly.

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Allegedly.

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So that, that's infuriating.

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But it comes at a time politically

that this case is just, seems to be

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tailor made for people that wanna take.

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Some of the, a lot of the

power away from the judges.

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Mm-hmm.

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Who I still believe are in the best.

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Position to determine what happens

to specific defendants in their

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courts and the circumstances

and to look at it and mm-hmm.

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You ca if you legislating that

away and going back to cookie

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cutter, you know, you have to do

things this way every single time.

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It didn't work.

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It's been tried.

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It hasn't worked.

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Yes.

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Well, so, and I completely

agree, like this is the notion of

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separation of powers and mm-hmm.

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We have three branches of government and

that the judiciary should be in charge

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of what the judiciary's in charge of.

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Yeah.

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The legislature should be in

charge of what the legislature's

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in charge of, and now the

legislature, they were given a gift.

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They were given a gift by a judge

that made a horrifically bad ruling.

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Yes, absolutely horrifically

bad, wrong, awful.

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Don't have enough words to say how stupid.

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This decision was, it just makes no sense.

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No, and I think there's more to it.

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I mean, I don't think there's

any Now by law, the charges

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were eligible for probation.

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Yes.

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So she had the statutory authority

to probate them, although

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she didn't have the statutory

authority to set the shock hearing.

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No, but I think that was probably remedied

for legal gurus out there and I think once

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he filed the motion, yeah, it's really,

it's, it is important that we say that the

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judge had the authority to do this and.

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I still think it's a very

important authority and, and

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discretion for a judge to have.

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I think a judge should be able to

shock probate people and to look

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at the circumstances of a case

for a large number of reasons, and

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I don't, and, and I hate , that.

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That authority and that discretion is

being criticized based on a bad decision.

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There are gonna be bad decisions.

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Anytime you give people discretion,

they're gonna be bad decisions.

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I don't like that, but , it

is just, you're right.

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Handing people a gift.

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It was handing the other side a

gift to politicize a, a weapon.

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Now , I do think, and I mean

this wholeheartedly I do think

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that it needs to be investigated.

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I think there was, it absolutely

needs to be investigated.

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I think there is more to the story

about why this young man got probation.

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I don't think someone with guys, and

we haven't fully explained this on

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this podcast, we're talking about nine.

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Teen individual robberies with

either A-G-U-N-A knife or a rock

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or physical force used on 19 random

people, including elderly people.

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Yes.

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That is not something, you know,

that should have been probated to.

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Fucking outpatient treatment.

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Like I said, on my appearance on WHAS

eight 40, everyone was set up for failure.

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If this true, if man has significant

substance abuse issues, they

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alleged mental health issues.

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Mental health issues, yeah, they

allege a traumatic brain injury.

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But he was set up for failure

by outpatient treatment and

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follow the rules of your mommy.

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Yeah.

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It just seemed nonsensical.

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, The court kept talking about the family

support, which clearly was there.

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Yeah.

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But those 19 things happened

with that family support.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so then going saying, well, clearly

the situation is good enough at home

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to make sure this doesn't happen again.

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This made absolutely no sense to me.

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None.

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, I agree with you.

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I am so not jump to conclusions about

anything, but the more we've dug into

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it, I, the more, I think there clearly

was something else going on there.

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Mm-hmm.

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This was, this was some form of a

favor or something like that, that I,

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I believe with it will be uncovered.

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There just isn't another

explanation for it, especially.

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That makes sense,

especially with the judge.

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That's smart.

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Well, especially with.

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It isn't like we had a judge that

appeared to be on the fence or

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against it had to be convinced.

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Mm-hmm.

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It, this seemed like this was

determined from the beginning.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that that just doesn't smell good.

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And it was like, come hell or high

water because it was like, okay, you're

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getting shock probated even though you

didn't get into mental health court.

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You know what I mean?

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Not that I think personally mental

health court would've been appropriate.

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I think inpatient dual diagnosis would've

been the absolute minimum, but I, I just

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can't foresee probating 19 victim crimes.

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My issue though is, is more that just

like the judge is very clear, I will do

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this, but only under these circumstances,

those circumstances didn't pan out.

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Something happened that we don't, I

mean, obviously something happened

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when the cameras weren't rolling

and when , the record wasn't on

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that just a decision was made.

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Well, we don't need

those extra protections.

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It was just, let's just grant

it and it doesn't pass the smell

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test to me, it really doesn't.

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I hope they do investigate it, and

I hope with everything that happens,

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like one, I get on my soapbox

about how the local media is just.

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Incompetent, frankly.

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And they don't report

on things accurately.

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They don't report on the things

that they should report on.

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But everything is nuanced and more

complicated, and I don't wanna make

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blanket statements, and I 100% believe

that people with substance abuse issues.

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Need treatment.

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I am all for probating

drug addicts to treatment.

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I treatment.

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I mean Purdue, pharma,

the devil, Sackler family.

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The devil all day.

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Like if there had been 19 robber or 19

thefts of a weed eater from a garage.

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Put the person in rehab,

inpatient rehab like all day.

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But you just upped the ante when you're

willing to traumatize 19 people, you know?

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Yeah.

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Well and physically injure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, he caused permanent physical

damage to an elderly person.

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Well, he was convicted of doing that.

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Yeah.

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So that's not even allegedly.

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And we heard a statement at the

sentencing from the victim, so.

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Yeah, just crazy.

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And then the media reaction, like you

said about just like the politics side

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of it is everybody just has their little

things out to be like, Ooh, how can I

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make this, spin this to my talking point?

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How can I spin this to my talking point?

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And it's like, let's actually

look at the root of the problem.

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One, the case needs to be investigated to

see if there's a connection Absolutely.

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Between the family and the judge

or something else going on there.

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And then two, there was a WDRB

article that of course made me mad.

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Can you imagine that?

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Hmm.

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About, they were just basically

saying, one, how it happened and

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that they used anonymous sources or

judges that wanted to have anonymity.

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Yeah.

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But I mean, they,

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we have anonymous sources.

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We Good point.

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We don't have anonymous sources

that we get up here and just

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say they are the victim.

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They are the victim.

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They are scared.

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They are the best mommy

that ever mommy a kid.

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Or they are the best daddy

that ever daddy a kid.

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That is true.

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That article was written like these

judges are just in such fear to come and

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defend their colleague and you know what?

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I'd be willing to bet.

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$5,000 to a charity of their choice

that these judges did not review the

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shock hearing, the sentencing hearing

and the file before they picked up

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the phone, the little anonymous source

phone to say, Hey, we're the victim.

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There's absolutely no way.

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Yes.

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I, I, I agree completely.

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So if there's a judge out there

that did all three of those things

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before you snitched to WDRB and just

said, oh my goodness, I'm so scared

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to go to the country club because

someone might, you know, threaten me.

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I don't believe it in any capacity.

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Well, also the threats

themselves are so problematic.

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Like who?

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I mean, I don't know.

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, I guess that's just where we are

currently as a society, but that, that.

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Is do Well, here's the

other flip side of this.

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No, you're right.

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Do not ever threaten a judge.

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That's insane.

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Don't threaten anybody.

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I mean, anybody like, what the hell?

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But the bigger thing is if there

were these salacious death threats.

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I didn't see any of them

mentioned in the article, did you?

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No.

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That had been, and I haven't, yeah, that

had been clickbait for WDRB all day long.

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I agree.

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I, in fact, I even happen, was reading

about, you know, reading one of the

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articles about this and I got a link

to something about a woman that got

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arrested in Indiana for making a

death threat to, to president Trump.

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So, you know that they would make click

bait out of death threats of some sort.

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So were there any death threats?

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Yeah, , I don't know.

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I mean, it just seems

that's, that's a good point.

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The notion that these judges

immediate, let me tell you something

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too about these district judges.

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I need a minute.

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Y'all will never be in a predicament

to experience having probated

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someone with 14 years, okay?

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It's not possible because you handle

traffic tickets and theft from Walmart.

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You are not important.

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You work part-time.

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You know what I mean?

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You do not have that level of

stress on you that you are going

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to potentially let someone out at

sentencing with years on the shelf.

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That's not the nature of our system.

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Is that wrong to say?

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You might let somebody out on bond and

something bad will happen, and I see that.

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But bond and probation are very different.

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Yes.

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Bond presumption of innocence.

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Yes.

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Sentencing guilty.

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District judges are not

victims of anything ever.

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They make $140,000 a year and

they adjudicate traffic tickets,

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misdemeanors name changes.

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Probate cases may be a

little bit more contentious.

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Anything else of importance?

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Guardianships?

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Yeah.

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Guardian jury does that.

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Well, that's true.

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Jury does that.

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No.

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So I just, the 16 district court judges,

well they're not always jury guardianships

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have to be in Kentucky by statue.

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You could have like pre stuff, but

like if you actually to get one Right.

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Am I wrong?

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I, you know, I, I I don't know of that.

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I've, I know I've had.

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A couple guardianship hearings

that were bench really hearings.

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Yeah.

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But I mean, they may have been.

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A change.

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You know, there may be some technical

reason why, the, they would be different

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under the statute, but I've never dealt

with, a jury trial on a guardianship.

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Well, in complete transparency, now

that I say this the only guardianship

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experience I ever have stopped in 2014

when I left the public defender's office

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and would watch those, if I certainly,

if wrong, haven't had any since wrong,

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mine might have all been prior to that.

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If I'm wrong, I completely apologize

and guardianships are a big deal.

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Yeah, no, I'll look into that.

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'cause that's, that could be very true.

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But you don't end up with, I mean.

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The idea of threats and the

idea that someone is going to

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threaten you for speaking out and

saying anything give me a break.

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Yeah.

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And just that, that's your first

thought after a woman, and like you

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said, an autistic child and their

sibling we're abducted is, oh my gosh.

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You know, we are the victims.

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Yeah.

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But none of that surprises

me, the judge, I mean.

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You're gonna expect the judge

is gonna back their colleagues.

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That's gonna happen.

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You're gonna expect the court

administrator is going to

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say something supportive.

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That's what he's paid for.

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That's not a surprise.

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Well, yeah.

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I mean, may, maybe not in writing, but

that's, that's what he's skilled at.

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He's a, he is a smart guy.

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He knows.

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What he's doing and he's going

and, and what he said on his

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face isn't, isn't untrue.

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That there, you can't foresee

what's going to happen.

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There will be bad things that happen.

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Understood This one though, you

didn't have to have a crystal ball

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to see that this was a bad idea.

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This was, this just was bad

from the very, very beginning.

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Well, and back to that, I'd bet my

house that guy was going to re-offend.

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Oh yeah, I, I mean I, my home just

looking, I mean, I've, there's so many

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times you're watching those hearings

and you can see, and everybody is

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acting a certain way in court and you

just have no idea that one, you could

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just, you could, I mean, I don't know.

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Oh my gosh.

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I forgot to tell you.

477

So we only release this on YouTube

and he mentioned, he mentioned

478

like at the beginning of the

hearing, like why is he smirking?

479

It was just.

480

It was, it was so bizarre.

481

Everything about it was bizarre.

482

But his demeanor, uhhuh,

that hearing nothing good was

483

gonna come of that happen.

484

I have gotten so many message

not happen messages and

485

comments and like Hugh's, right?

486

He is smirking.

487

Oh my gosh.

488

He's smirking the whole time.

489

What's on his face?

490

I completely forgot to tell you that.

491

And it's like, he looked to

me like medicated, like in a.

492

Mind altering way.

493

He, yeah, he looked like, he looked

like he was, he was having more fun

494

than everybody else in the room.

495

Which, and I mean, no disrespect

to mental health, like it's

496

just a sad situation all around.

497

And not to make like, but you have to,

if you're in that state for judge to

498

say, oh yeah, you seem like you're ready

to just go live back at home again.

499

Mm-hmm.

500

Everything's worked out.

501

Just look at this dude.

502

And so that was in.

503

July of 2024 re-offend,

504

Mm-hmm.

505

From the brief review of the court

file, it looks like there was a

506

little hearing in October of 2024.

507

So we don't even know what

the level of supervision as

508

far as the court involvement.

509

It looks like he was probably just on

probation and parole, which to your point.

510

Judge green said the whole time,

I think this case is too much for

511

probation and parole to manage.

512

Oh, yeah.

513

No, that was, it was interesting.

514

I, that was really notable

to me when she said that.

515

Yeah.

516

Oh, this case is too

much for them to manage.

517

So then why were they the only

ones that had to manage it?

518

Yeah, exactly.

519

I wonder if any family court

judges went to defend her.

520

I doubt it.

521

I don't know.

522

I mean, we have a lot of 'em

that had experience in district

523

court or you know, with, with

prac, I mean that understand it.

524

I guess.

525

We don't have anyone on the bench

that was over there anymore.

526

But I guess when you read the

article too, McKay is quoted.

527

And that's the court administrator,

BFF, and fan of the show.

528

Oh.

529

And then, but they just said

the judges want anonymity.

530

So, you know, we all, we've

talked about on this show how

531

judges are sources for the media.

532

So it could have been somebody from WDRB.

533

Yeah.

534

You know?

535

Yeah.

536

I, I don't know.

537

Anyway.

538

Yeah, we need Savannah, we need McKay on.

539

I, I wish he would come on.

540

Me too.

541

And I swear it would be polite.

542

I mean, oh, we would have

an awesome conversation.

543

He's, I'd have a beer with him.

544

Oh my gosh.

545

He is, I'd have six.

546

He is, he is hilarious.

547

And one of the more interesting

intellectual people, I remember he used

548

to give the the training for warning

orders to the young attorneys that

549

would get warning order appointments

really early on in the bench.

550

And he would make these references.

551

I think especially to Hitchhiker's Guide

and like half the room wouldn't get it or

552

most of the room wouldn get it before then

a couple people would laugh and he would

553

then make another reference about the PA.

554

Oh dude, it's hilarious.

555

I really would like to sit down

and talk with him 'cause I.

556

I really want to understand, yeah.

557

The point of view that he has on

the recording of social media in the

558

courtroom, because it's obviously

shared with a lot of other courts.

559

You go on TikTok, you have

judges who have channels.

560

Mm-hmm.

561

Selectively pick cases that

they're going to record.

562

I think that it is not as stretched to say

they probably act differently when they

563

are recording for their TikTok channels

than they would on the other cases.

564

I could be wrong.

565

But , I want to hear,

I wanna hear that side.

566

So anyway, let's well maybe went off on

a tangent, but just an open invitation.

567

Please come talk with us.

568

Yeah, no, and maybe we should reach

out to him and just say, Christine

569

won't be there, like you and him.

570

Just have a conversation here.

571

I'm fine with that.

572

I feel like it was clear we ran into

him at the courthouse and it was clear.

573

I think his exact words were me,

like, I hear you've been talking shit

574

about me, or something like that.

575

Oh, he did.

576

But he also, when you said like, sit

down with us, he said never gonna happen.

577

So.

578

Oh, I know.

579

But, but he, but that was us.

580

So maybe he would sit down with you.

581

I don't know.

582

But to segue on to that any

last thoughts on Langford?

583

Just like, no.

584

There, there's more there and, and

we have our ideas and suspicions from

585

what we've investigated and spent many

hours digging into it, but mm-hmm.

586

It's troublesome.

587

Yeah.

588

There, there, if.

589

What we suspect is there.

590

It's very troublesome, but

we, you know more to come.

591

Yeah.

592

And there are great judges.

593

We'll do that caveat too.

594

It's not all, but it is

so frustrating to me.

595

The exact same thing with like law

enforcement that when you saw everything

596

happen in 2020, the fact that judges just

blindly support other judges publicly.

597

Yeah.

598

Like that is not helpful.

599

At all to maintaining the

integrity of the judiciary?

600

No, that's right.

601

And just like with police

officers, just complete solidarity.

602

I mean.

603

There are horrible problems in the system.

604

Mm-hmm.

605

It doesn't mean that

everybody is terrible.

606

Yeah.

607

When no one is saying that, but these,

you know, it has to be addressed.

608

It can't just be, well,

no one has a crystal ball.

609

Yeah.

610

Let's just, I mean, that could

have been any, , any judge.

611

No, I don't think so.

612

That, that just, this is just, there's

so many red flags in this case.

613

Yeah.

614

Well and that goes back to, 'cause

I'm, I take the bait all the time

615

and like I know it drives you crazy.

616

It's like I take the bait.

617

'cause I'll be like, oh, you

district judges you don't work.

618

And there are district judges

that work really, really hard.

619

And I'm working on a story behind

the scenes about some of the

620

district judges that are working.

621

You know, we've never been to court

and seen more than nine judges

622

of the 16 with open courtrooms.

623

Right.

624

I think and typically it's

like four, six or seven.

625

Yeah.

626

But the notion, I think

it's usually the same ones.

627

Yeah.

628

So a lot of the same ones.

629

Yeah.

630

And the notion like circuit judges

have a really, really, really hard.

631

Job in a much different caseload.

632

Family court judges have a hard

job in a much different caseload.

633

Yes.

634

Than the responsibility.

635

Like the responsibility is much

different in those two courts

636

than it is district court.

637

I would agree.

638

And I just think district court going

and if it was them being like, oh, we're

639

scared of death threats and talking to

the media, it's just insulting to if

640

it's done properly, the work and the

stress that's done at a circuit level.

641

Yeah.

642

But I mean, the other thing is

they clearly talked to them.

643

Mm-hmm.

644

They were given anonymity.

645

They were still just blanket

support and, you know, saying

646

basically all the same thing.

647

So you were given anonymity

if you're really scared.

648

About speaking out that speak out true.

649

No one's naming you true.

650

Don't just keep saying the same

thing that everybody's saying,

651

repeating the same lines.

652

And we will obviously abide

by journalistic standards

653

and never reveal sources.

654

And if any judge wants to talk to

us anywhere about anything, we will.

655

But I will do the caveat.

656

There are judges that work extremely hard

in Louisville and throughout this country.

657

There's good, there's bad,

there's ugly, but it's just the

658

system, like you said, like.

659

Protecting itself.

660

That's so infuriating.

661

Yeah.

662

And I will say we will fiercely

defend anonymity of sources and

663

not giving up sources to the point

of going and being locked up.

664

Yeah.

665

And it is just something

we believe in to our core.

666

Yep.

667

Same as attorney client privilege, really.

668

Yeah, absolutely.

669

So we, we welcome anybody to come talk to

us with any, any point of view whatsoever.

670

And , if you wanna do it off the record.

671

Do it.

672

We would much prefer to have

an open discussion so people

673

can hear everybody's opinion.

674

Well, do we really want 'em to call in

and crying about being the victim though?

675

I'm just kidding.

676

I'm kidding.

677

I'm kidding.

678

Give my number.

679

So there was a really,

everyone is tagging me in this.

680

We're gonna segue to family

court a little bit where.

681

Both of us spent the

majority of our career.

682

Yes.

683

I can still consider myself raised

as a criminal lawyer, but there

684

is a RICO case out of st Is it St.

685

Louis County or St.

686

Louis, or is that the same thing?

687

I, I don't remember.

688

It's outta Missouri.

689

Yeah.

690

I don't recall the county.

691

I, it's St.

692

Louis Family Court.

693

Is it?

694

Yeah.

695

Yeah.

696

Super fascinating.

697

It really is.

698

Now there are a lot of people

that you see litigants that are

699

aggrieved and they will go on a.

700

You know, they'll, they'll go

on a social media campaign or,

701

you know, something about court.

702

This, this person encountered what I

always refer to as the system where

703

you have certain judges and attorneys

and all, and they're just, they're

704

protecting this sort of machine

that's over there in family court.

705

And someone was just

sort of, , he spoke out.

706

He was critical.

707

About that system and was told by a,

allegedly, by a friend of the court or

708

a guardian ad litem, I think one that if

he rescinded or stopped being critical,

709

then he could have more custody time

and just made it very quid pro quo.

710

And then he saw the Supreme Court

allegedly introduced itself into the

711

case and intervened somehow, which is.

712

Wild.

713

Really wild.

714

So it just so happened that this guy was

a big firm attorney who handled class

715

action lawsuits and went to the federal

level and said, well, I'm not going to

716

get anybody that's not protecting the

system outside of the court outside of

717

the, you know, out inside of state court.

718

So I'm going to the feds Yeah.

719

And make this a racketeering case and.

720

, It's a fascinating case that he's laid

out because he is properly laid out, I

721

think the foundation for a RICO case.

722

And so RICO is organized

crime at the federal level.

723

Mm-hmm.

724

We actually do have a statute in

Kentucky, it's called Criminal syndicate.

725

It's, but it's basically

just organized crime.

726

And so he's alleging organized crime

by the family court system in Missouri.

727

I mean, that's, I I am

fascinated to see how that goes.

728

It is, it is a creative creative

argument that I think only a,

729

an attorney could come up with.

730

But , it's interesting because

he lays it out very well.

731

Yeah.

732

And there are a couple I've

seen percolating some like RICO

733

cases or allegations from pro se

litigants, and now I've never deep.

734

Done a deep dive into it.

735

This article too is from Legal Newsline.

736

And just to give like a li like the

allegations, like you were just saying.

737

First off, this is a father who is

like a well-seasoned litigator, right?

738

Like it seemed from the article.

739

Yeah.

740

I think he was a class action defense

attorney or a civil def defendant

741

against class action lawsuits.

742

And, family court attorneys that have

only exclusively practiced family law

743

somehow get the notion like sometimes

they can be too big for their britches.

744

Does that, is that wrong?

745

, I don't know.

746

I I do know.

747

I do know.

748

Okay.

749

I do know.

750

Okay.

751

Like family court attorneys

had, they've never tried a

752

jury trial, and I'm not saying.

753

Like, listen, I'm gonna tell

y'all like there's no way, like

754

as far as knowing the law, civil

law, you know it better than me.

755

Like no question.

756

Like it's not even you.

757

But I've never tried a jury trial.

758

You're an expert though.

759

Like in that capacity.

760

I know Everybody knows what they

know and smart people know enough

761

to know what they don't know, right?

762

Yeah.

763

I think that's the key.

764

Yeah.

765

And you don't fuck with a class

action lawyer at a big firm.

766

And he, he has.

767

He has the, and I can't remember

if it's friend of the court, it

768

was , a court appointed attorney.

769

Yeah.

770

That is basically in charge of the

custody determinations for his kid.

771

He has a recording of

him according to the.

772

Petition.

773

Yeah.

774

The complaint filed in this, he has a

recording of him saying, if you back

775

down on the criticism of, you know,

the system, this judge Yeah, whatever.

776

I'll give you more custody time.

777

You'll get more custody time.

778

Like just being told

that it's that simple.

779

Yeah.

780

You stop complaining and that

you might get what you want.

781

And if that's the case, first off the.

782

Guardian ad litem or whatever the

equivalent there in Missouri is,

783

they should be disbarred, obviously.

784

Let me read just like a little paragraph

from this newsline, is that what I said?

785

It was Legal Newsline article.

786

Matthew R.

787

Grant, a former litigation partner

at one of the hundred largest law

788

firms in the United States and

founder of Stop Missouri Corruption.

789

Contends the alleged enterprise

dubbed in his complaint as the Clayton

790

kids for Cash Scheme retaliated

against him for exposing corruption

791

cumulating in the loss of nearly all

of his custody of his teenage sons.

792

If true that is, that is sadly, I think it

should be shocking to people, but this is.

793

It just wasn't that surprising

to me that there were these

794

moving pieces that he alleged.

795

And I think if you, if this was in

a different arena and he had filed

796

this about something else, I'd be

like, oh God, this is so fanciful.

797

It's just, I've seen all of these

pieces and these types of things moved

798

around that, I mean, I've been told

by judges, if you don't stop this

799

other legal action that you filed

lawfully in another court, I'm gonna

800

take your client's child right now.

801

Like as we sit here, like I've

seen this actually happen.

802

That , this is fascinating to me just

because I, is this happening every

803

day, everywhere, all over the country?

804

I, I don't know, but it, I always

thought about, okay, this is how it

805

is in my world and here I have no idea

what family law is like in other places.

806

And reading through the allegations that

this person is making in his complaint.

807

Yeah, just, it just sounds way too

familiar to me, which is crazy.

808

And I think we're gonna see a lot

of these RICO cases, we need to

809

do a full, like true journalism.

810

We're just kind of shooting the shit,

talking about our reactions right now.

811

Yeah.

812

And we've read one article about it.

813

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

814

And so the lawsuit named, and I'm just

reading from this, but it named the

815

judge, the former commissioner, the

guardian ad litem, the children's mother.

816

The children's mother's attorney, two

and two relatives of the children.

817

So this is like the whole organized

crime sphere that's alleged in this rico.

818

And they say he's got a recorded phone

call where the GAL offered to restore

819

custody if dad would publicly reran recant

his corruption complaints or claims.

820

Sorry.

821

Yeah, that's, that's shocking.

822

And part of, part of

the allegation is that.

823

They've sort of set up this system

that just generates attorney's fees

824

for the court appointed attorneys.

825

And I mean, I know that's been a big

criticism of yours for a long time.

826

Yeah.

827

That we're getting all

these people involved.

828

They are just billing, billing,

billing, and almost looking for,

829

looking for something to justify

them still being on the case.

830

And a lot of times that

results in just creating or.

831

Inflating conflict so that they

can continue to be involved.

832

I know that, I've seen that.

833

Well, and it's, it just shows the

reason to, I tend to believe these

834

allegations because I think only

someone that took court appointed

835

guardian ad litem work would be stupid

enough to say that on a telephone.

836

Thinking they weren't being recorded

speaking to a high powered lawyer at

837

a one of the nation's largest firms.

838

You know what I mean?

839

Like, no way in in hell would you,

you get, you get treated, and I mean,

840

in some of the court appointed people

actually have immunity from anything.

841

And you just, I, you know, the attitude

that I encountered so often from certain

842

people that were court appointed was that.

843

You can't do anything to me.

844

I can say what I want because

nothing's gonna happen to me.

845

Oh, speaking of, we forgot to mention

on the last episode one of the GALs that

846

we talk about all the time, we started

off our Monday at motion hour with what?

847

Him walking out of the back.

848

Oh yeah.

849

Oh yeah, sorry.

850

We walk into court, he comes straight

outta chambers back where the, you know,

851

the judge and the judge's staff are,

and it's like, yeah, of course you do.

852

So this is the guardian ad litem regularly

appointed in Louisville, Kentucky,

853

literally walking out from the back where

the judges are at the be of motion hour.

854

And you were just like, oh my gosh.

855

But there is, that's what I'm like,

the godlike power like complex.

856

Is that there, is there another

word for that that I'm missing?

857

I mean, at the very, very least.

858

The impression of, you know, for

anyone that's, that hasn't just seen

859

it so much, they've become numb to it.

860

If you're coming from the outside,

you're a pro se person in that

861

courtroom and he's walking out

from where the judge comes from.

862

And this was, you know, it's one

thing if you're back there getting

863

a date at motion hour, some of the

courts, and you go to the back.

864

This is the beginning as it starts.

865

Like we were having

breakfast, this, you know?

866

Yeah.

867

That's where he was hanging out.

868

I mean, it just.

869

Everything about it just smells so bad.

870

And this is what I

thought was interesting.

871

And I would love, if you are listening,

we need to find this attorney.

872

We, I'd love to have him on

the podcast that's filing this.

873

Oh, I agree.

874

But he says that he has obtained text

messages, court transcripts, recorded

875

conversations and internal communications

that he plans to present witnesses

876

from other cases with a similar Yeah.

877

Pattern.

878

Of conduct, which we've seen

a similar pattern of conduct.

879

Now I've never expressly seen if you do

this, I'll give you more parenting time.

880

Now your case is egregious.

881

The one you've mentioned that

Yeah, about that case makes me ill.

882

But I mean, this, the, the, what's

interesting about him being a seasoned

883

attorney, he knows that, you know,

okay, the public can get certain

884

information through information

requests and things like that.

885

But as soon as you have a lawsuit,

he gets it through discovery.

886

Mm-hmm.

887

He gets all of these things and

he knows exactly what to look for

888

because he's a seasoned litigator.

889

Oh.

890

And is just, I mean, he's thought about

it enough to think, okay, where if

891

I, if this type of activity existed,

where would the evidence of it be?

892

Yeah.

893

And where would it be in other

cases and where would it be?

894

In, in billing records and things like

that, and he's going after all of it.

895

So I'm, I'm, I can't wait

to see what he's got.

896

Well, speaking of last night, I had a

genius idea about what we could ever

897

do if we ever got sued by a judge

for like defamation or anything.

898

You know, what we could

do during discovery.

899

We could ask for their Planet Fitness.

900

Check in and check out.

901

Oh, man.

902

Yeah.

903

So yesterday after division five, I

literally Okay, y'all, we I was not right.

904

Like we talked on the last podcast.

905

My anxiety was like a 17.2,

906

and I've been like keto and

like eating super clean.

907

I was just like a nervous wreck

going to court for some reason.

908

Just like all of the traumas.

909

And so then we watched, it was like,

you know, in the last episode it

910

started out pretty good and then it

was just like this dramatic downfall.

911

Oh, the train wreck at the end?

912

Yeah.

913

Yeah.

914

And so I was like, I'm gonna, I went home

and I was like, I'm gonna go to the gym.

915

I was at the gym.

916

I did a little cryo machine.

917

I went to one I don't normally

go to, and it's four o'clock.

918

I mean, I'm seriously out in St.

919

Matthew's.

920

So that's what, that's 30

minutes from the courthouse?

921

20.

922

20, yeah, 20.

923

But I mean, getting, if you're

a judge, like getting on the

924

elevator, changing clothes, getting

out of the secured parking lot.

925

I mean, and I run into

Bryan Gatewood right there.

926

I mean Division eight judge.

927

Yeah, family court judge.

928

Yeah.

929

And I mean I was just, it was a work day.

930

Yeah.

931

Yeah.

932

Four o'clock on a Monday and he

933

He's the judge we talked about at his

934

Like so many of the

files weren't brought up.

935

But yeah, so you know, I think

going to the gym is great.

936

I think take care of your

mental health is great.

937

Yeah, absolutely.

938

And I.

939

Trust me, I don't get

paid by the government.

940

I'd love to I I have never, I've known a

lot of people that work for the government

941

that were not allowed to go Yeah.

942

Middle of the workday and work at the gym.

943

I've never had an employer that

would've put up with that in

944

any job that I've ever had.

945

If in the, in the middle of a workday

I'm working out at, at the gym.

946

Yeah.

947

Especially if I'm not getting orders out.

948

And I, I am personally aware of cases

that I worked on that were in front

949

of him that have been sitting for.

950

I wouldn't be surprised if some

of them are still sitting after a

951

year that haven't been ruled on.

952

Mm-hmm.

953

I don't think you're, you're writing

those orders while you're at the gym.

954

No.

955

And I don't think this violates

our judgey confidentiality.

956

If it does, we'll take it out.

957

But ironically enough, if you

saw some of the submissions that

958

we've got over the last week, how

many were Bryan Gatewood cases?

959

Eight and four are the

ones we we see the most.

960

Yeah, I was gonna say eight, four 10.

961

About getting orders out.

962

I mean I'm Oh yeah.

963

About getting orders out.

964

Absolutely.

965

Yeah.

966

I get a lot of those obviously are a

little lovely seven and shockingly enough,

967

I'm getting a lot more about two lately.

968

Could be very brief on this, but so.

969

There are gonna be

complaints on every judge.

970

Yeah.

971

Obviously ly absolutely.

972

And judges aren't gonna

get it right all the time.

973

Absolutely.

974

Well, they make somebody

upset with every ruling.

975

Just about, yeah.

976

And even like, even if they're

batting 85%, like I'm not necessarily

977

viscerally angry about that.

978

I don't mean that in a condescending

way, but we have judges like

979

Bryan Gatewood that are just.

980

Literally not keeping their docket moving,

yelling at people, things of that nature.

981

You know what I mean?

982

Yeah.

983

That's very different

than a one-off situation.

984

Yeah.

985

But we get complaints about almost every

judge, but there are judges that get

986

the majority of the, the percentage.

987

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

988

I mean, go, go look at the go look.

989

Louisville, Jefferson County Family

Court and look at the responses and they

990

primarily focus on one judge mm-hmm.

991

Of the reviews.

992

So, but anyway, I mean, it's

interesting to think about a RICO

993

perspective in Louisville, and

obviously I don't want anybody.

994

To get in trouble, like, but that's

just like so valley girl of me.

995

But it's also like there are consequences

for actions and I just think the system,

996

you always talk about it in a way that's

like much more articulate than me.

997

It's this huge machine that's only

protecting itself, but the outcome of

998

that is hurting families and hurting kids.

999

Oh yeah.

00:41:39,369 --> 00:41:39,879

I mean, that's how I always felt.

00:41:39,879 --> 00:41:43,779

I just, it just, it just killed me

every time someone, especially someone

00:41:43,779 --> 00:41:45,249

court appointed where I would say this.

00:41:45,654 --> 00:41:47,004

Doesn't happen, the statute says this.

00:41:47,454 --> 00:41:47,754

Oh.

00:41:47,814 --> 00:41:50,064

But that's, that's just how we do it here.

00:41:50,094 --> 00:41:51,564

That's just the way that it works.

00:41:51,564 --> 00:41:54,714

It's like, but that's not the

way that it, that's not lawful.

00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:56,415

All right, thank you guys.

00:41:56,415 --> 00:41:57,495

Little housekeeping stuff.

00:41:57,495 --> 00:42:00,565

Remember, send everything to judge-y.com.

00:42:00,585 --> 00:42:04,305

Also, we're gonna start a new segment

where we answer your questions.

00:42:04,605 --> 00:42:08,625

You can submit them to me to judgy

anywhere, and we are going to do that

00:42:08,625 --> 00:42:11,715

exclusively for our YouTube followers.

00:42:11,925 --> 00:42:14,655

Our YouTube handle is judging

the judges, or you can just

00:42:14,655 --> 00:42:16,825

in the search bar, judge-y.

00:42:16,845 --> 00:42:18,375

Thank y'all so, so, so much.

00:42:18,375 --> 00:42:18,855

Anything.

00:42:19,065 --> 00:42:19,335

Nope.

00:42:19,605 --> 00:42:20,115

Bye.

00:42:20,175 --> 00:42:20,505

Peace.

00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:23,320

/ Next call.

00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,525

We need some justice, justice, justice.

00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,340

And I wanna ring bells in public.

00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:30,070

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

00:42:30,130 --> 00:42:31,965

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

00:42:32,165 --> 00:42:33,725

I To the fo Yeah.

00:42:33,805 --> 00:42:37,445

I to the fo fo teaser.