Our featured guest, Anthony Santilli from the Fangs & Fur Podcast, talks about his personal journey feeding his pet, sharing how a crisis in the pet food industry compelled him to reevaluate his career path.

Witnessing the transformative impact of real, fresh, and raw food on dogs' health, he developed a passion for promoting healthier diets for our four-legged companions.

We delve into the connection between diet and health issues such as diabetes and kidney disease in dogs. Anthony offers practical tips to improve your dog's diet without breaking the bank, debunking the myth that natural food for dogs is always more expensive.

Taking proactive steps in providing better nutrition can save money in the long run by reducing the need for medication and veterinary care.

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Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle270Media Podcast Consultants.

Copyright 2024 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson

Anthony says dogs are not supposed to be gross. Dogs and cats for that matter. We think of dogs as like, these gross things

Anthony: Dogs and cats for that matter. But dogs are not supposed to be gross. We have a lot of, um, you know, if you I always tell people if you go to the park, you go to the dog park and, you know, and you pet a dog and it's, it's crazy. It's like their teeth are rotting out of their mouth. They have, they're, they're, they're oily. Like, you pet them and your, your hands are now oily and they smell bad. Um, they're pooping out cow, all pies. None of this should be happening, but this is how our mindset is now. We think of dogs as like, these gross things that live in our house. And I have three dogs, they're not gross. They eat the right diet and that eliminates a lot of these things from happening. So, um, just know that dogs aren't supposed to be gross. Dogs. I see a lot of it out there with all these, um, a lot of dogs who are severely overweight, um, have lumps all over them, uh, terrible teeth, and it's just starting to become the norm and I don't want that to happen.

Brett: Ah, we are looking forward our way from Studio C and the Five One One studios in the Brewery district at just south of downtown Columbus, Ohio.

Anthony: Hi. This is Bret.

Brett: I've been a pet owner for years. I think I've mentioned Miles on our podcast a few times and he's an important part of the family. Over the years, I've dealt with questions on what to feed him, what care is critical, how to budget to meet those needs. A few years ago, I met our guest, Anthony Sentilli, owner of Fangs and Fur. And be quite honest, he has a great podcast called Fangs and Fur as well. Uh, for those of you not familiar with this local independent owner operated shop, we're excited to have Anthony join us today. Thanks, Anthony.

Anthony: Appreciate it. Yeah, thank you guys for having me. I'm excited to get in our conversation today.

Brett brought Anthony in to talk about his Fangs & Fur Podcast

Brett: Cool.

Carol: Well, and this is pretty cool, um, I'm not a pet owner, so, um, Bret brought Anthony in and great plug there for not only his Fangs and Fur podcast, but Bret helps him with that podcast. So, very cool. We're keeping it in the family today. Yes, Anthony and I are both Italian. We've been over here comparing notes of who we know. So, Anthony, thanks so much for podcasting with us. Know, I have to admit, thanks. And Fur was not on my radar screen. Since I'm not a pet owner, you're committed to providing dogs and cats with food, supplements and accessories they need for a healthy life.

Hotatt's Australian shepherd struggled with food when he was a puppy

Carol: But let's start out first by hearing your story. Tell our audience about your background.

Anthony: Yeah, so, um, I'm actually originally, um, from here in Columbus. Uh, I moved out west after college and, um, of course thought it'd be a good idea to get an Australian shepherd, uh, get my first job, get my first dog.

Carol: How big is that? Was that dog?

Anthony: Oh, he's not very big. He's only like 30 some pounds, 32 pounds. Um, he's still here. Yeah, they're high energy. Um, which was great. He was great for me at the time. I mean, still is he's a great dog. He's still around, um, he's twelve years old now, but, um yeah, so it started with him, really. When I got him as a puppy, he was really struggling with food. Just couldn't digest food. If you know anything about Australian shepherds, they have really long hair. And so when they, uh, aren't processing food correctly, it's pretty messy on the back end. Um, so I was, um, constantly giving him baths because he just couldn't process his food, just diarrhea through vomiting. And the vet put him on all these, uh, medications and all this food, processed, um, food, and nothing was working. And it was getting better, or it was starting to get a lot worse. And so, um, I remember I walked into kind of a locally owned pet shop in downtown Seattle. It's, uh, called Mud Bay. And one of the ladies there asked me, she said, well, if you had a pet snake, what would you feed it? And I was like, well, I guess like a mouse, right? And she's like, well, yeah, why wouldn't you apply the same logic to your dog? And it was at that point, I never thought about what dogs would normally be eating if it wasn't up to us. Um, it certainly wouldn't be processed pet food, right. Um, and so I did. So she gave me, um, these patties, these raw patties made by Northwest Naturals, I think is the first one. Immediately. I mean, A, he liked it. He wouldn't even really eat the processed food. And when he did, he had massive issues. Um, so this, I put it down, devoured it, and I'm like, okay, well, that's good, but we'll see what happens on the back end. And within a day, he had solid stools for the first time I've had him in six months. Um, and his fur came back, his energy came back. He was like a whole different dog. Um, and so it was at that time where I just really started becoming passionate, started looking into what was going on in the pet food world and how we got here, um, as far as feeding our dogs. This ultra processed, super dehydrated, pretty, um, much pellets of corn, uh, with synthetic sprayed on top. And, um, at the same time, he actually had to go to the emergency clinic because he was eating these treats, um, that were advertised as, um, natural 100% Natural chicken jerky treats. Um, it turns out they were not made here in the US. They were made in another country. And they were using, um, a plastic resin. Uh, so he was vomiting and there were these pellets of translucent um, plastic, it looked like. My ex girlfriend and I live in this really small apartment downtown Seattle. It was, like, very small studio apartment. Um, so we knew everything he was getting into, right. And so we're like, what is going on? The only thing he's been eating is this chicken jerky. It turns out that, uh, this company was using a plastic resin, um, um, melanine, I think. I can't remember what it's called. Um, and eventually, it took him, like, two years to get it recalled, um know, knowing there's tons of dogs dying of this, uh, millennium poisoning at the, um, so all these things are happening at the same time. And I started looking into, um, gain nutrition and pet food and all that. Um, and I was working for Hyatt Hotels at the time, and all of a sudden, I'm at work, and I'm constantly talking about how am I converting all these people into feeding at least fresh food, adding some fresh food, or most likely trying to get some raw food in that dog's diet. Um, and I was having a really big impact on all these people and their dogs. And I wasn't even working for I was working for hotels. Um, so that's kind of where the idea came, where it started from.

Carol: I've helped people get jobs for decades. And I have to say, this is such a clear example of how something so different happens in your world and literally changes your whole career path.

Anthony: It does, yeah, 100%. I'd always been fascinated ever since I was a kid, I've always been interested in animals. It's just been from the start. So I always look back and it's like, I don't know why I didn't do something like this earlier, why I just kind of went down that path of, uh, doing what your kind of standard? Go to high school, go to college, and get a degree in political science.

Carol: Whatever be of that business.

Anthony: Yeah, it kind of makes sense that it kind of happened this way, I guess, but yeah.

Carol: Interesting.

Listening is the biggest thing I learned from hospitality

Brett: Well, your hospitality gig probably was a great training ground because you had face to face with a lot of people. Let's dive into you had that background, and then, okay, you created fangs and fur. Why? How do you think you're pulling your background? You've kind of alluded to it a little bit already, the passion, but some other things, like, I'm going to do this. Kind of walk us through that.

Anthony: Yeah. Well, I was an operations manager for Hyatt for almost ten years, and so it's kind of like you're running a business, right. Um, you're hiring and firing and financials, uh, and everything else. Um, but the big thing so it's just as far as kind of starting a business and understanding the business, I think it really helped. Um, but also, you really learn a lot about people in that business. Um, and I think that's something that at fangs and fur we do really well, is we treat everyone and we treat every pet as an individual because they're so different. Um, and it's not just the same, I guess, solution for every pet, it's going to be a little different. Um, and that was the same with hospitality. Whenever there's an issue with guests had an issue or whatever, everyone is so different. And so listening is like the biggest thing I learned from hospitality. It's just sometimes people just want to be heard. And, um, I think a lot of people come in, get frustrated, whether if they've been to their vet or, um, somewhere else and they felt like they weren't heard. Um, and so we do our best to try to listen and figure out really what's going on underneath surface.

Carol: Interesting.

How this huge pet food industry was created.

Carol: Great. So even for those of us who don't have pets, we're all bombarded by commercials. And, um, as Bret, uh, has taught me, it's called traditional dog food is Kibble, that dry stuff that bangs into the bowl. Um, so those dry pellets, we lug them from the grocery store to our house. How is this huge pet food industry? How was it created? Um, and how it such, um, awareness to push pet owners to fill those grocery carts with that Kibble type product.

Brett: So you've got that history walking into how we feed our pets. But there are new theories and research on correct food, better food. Our pets should have to live long and better.

Some veterinarians are advocating for fresh food over processed food for pets

Brett: Can we talk a little bit about that?

Anthony: Yeah. It's so funny to me because I never thought that advocating, um, for real food for our pets would be so controversial, um, because we're all biological beings, right? So they need fresh food just as much as we need fresh food. And we know there's not a physician on Earth that says, you need to eat more ultra processed food. You need to eat more synthetic food. No one says that. No one says I'm, um, Dr. Karen Becker, who if you don't follow her, she's fantastic. Uh, she's a veterinarian, really, um, big on feeding real food, fresh food. Um, but I'm, um, paraphrasing her, but she said, you know, it's really sad that my peers so other veterinarians are the last physicians on Earth to recommend, uh, fresh food over processed food. Um, so, anyways, to answer your question, there's a lot of studies now, but in my eyes, it's like, we don't need the studies. We already know fresh food is better. Right. But there are some really cool studies. Dr. Anna Bjorkman the biggest study to date is Dr. Um, Anna Bjorkman, who, uh, she's a, um, veterinarian professor at University of Helsinki in Finland. And, um, they have one of the largest studies to date on fresh food versus Kibble. And so they're measuring homocysteine levels, which is an amino acid in dogs. Ah. Essentially, dogs that were fed it's a disease marker. Um, and so they compared that with dogs that are being fed raw food versus processed food. And, um, they actually had four groups to kind of get into it. They had four groups. They had dogs that were on kibble and stayed on kibble, dogs that were on kibble and went to raw. Dogs that were fed to raw and stayed on raw, and dogs that were fed raw and went to kibble. Um, and so it was really neat. So, the dogs that were on raw food and stayed on raw food had the lowest levels of homocysteine in their bodies, which is great, which we already knew. Right. Um, and then the dogs that were fed kibble and stayed on kibble had the highest levels. But what was really cool is the dogs that went from kibble to raw actually had a huge decrease in homocysteine. So I always tell people, know, it's never too late, um, to transition your dog.

Carol: When you think about that, the reason Kibble has become successful is because they have convinced us it is real food, that kibble is real food. The marketing, the commercialization, what's written on.

Anthony: The packages, real food on the package.

Carol: And real dog, they might put a.

Anthony: Wolf on the package. It's like their ancestral diet.

Carol: Ah, exactly.

Anthony: It's not even close.

Carol: And so although the research is not really telling you anything new, the research is going to add to individuals belief that I can't believe that package. Just like, um, when you see something reduced sodium, well, it starts out ten times too much sodium and then it goes down to eight times too much sodium is reduced, but not really.

Anthony: Yeah, there's a lot of problems with dry food. And I don't want to shame, I never shame anyone for feeding dry, um, food or processed or kibble processed food, or whatever you want to call it. Um, it's just about how much real food can we get back into the diet? Mhm. Right. Um, so if you can only do a little bit, great. Um, the same, um, study, the dog risk study that I was referring to, they determined that just doing about 20% of the dog's diet with real food, so just 20%. So taking out 20% of processed food and putting 20% of real food in there can have a huge impact on decrease in disease, um, and increasing longevity. Just 20%. I always tell people if you're eating McDonald's three times a day and all of a sudden you're like, you know what, I'm going to eat a real meal for one of those meals. It's going to have an impact. Um, yeah, kibble is, um, the major problem with kibble is it's 40% to 60% carbohydrates. Um, and dogs being facultative carnivores. They have zero dietary requirements for carbohydrates. They don't need carbohydrates. Um, I'm not saying there's not a place for it in their diet in a small amount, but to make it the majority of their food is a big concern because all those carbohydrates convert to sugar in the body. They feed inflammation, they feed cancer, feed yeast. All these issues we see in our dogs diabetes, kidney disease, all these things that are happening, um, is directly tied to their diet.

Natural food, real food is more expensive. And many of our listeners are on fixed incomes

Carol: But one of the issues that people have because they hear this and goodness knows what they're reading to hear it, um, that natural food, real food is more expensive. And many of our listeners are on fixed incomes. How can we help them realize that you can do this without breaking the bank? You did mention just reducing a bit of the kibble. Are there other ways that they can still, um, get a better diet for their dog?

Anthony: Yeah, this is a really common question I like to tell people. And it's funny because when I start talking to people and listening to people, I find out that they're paying a lot of money for different kind of medications every month. I mean, 200, $300 every month. I'm like, if we could just replace their diet with an actually healthy diet, you would cut down those, if not eliminate those costs and medication. Um, so that's something to look at when you're feeding real food, when you're feeding raw food or you're feeding a fresh food diet, you shouldn't be paying much money at the vet office. That's the whole point, is to keep your dog healthy. It's preventative medicine. Um, I have a Samuel shirt and shepherd. I was talking about before Bozzi. He's twelve years old. He's never had a teeth cleaning in his life. He's got perfect teeth. Um, this is random, but Kibble does not clean your dog's teeth as a huge myth. If your dentist told you to eat a hard cookie, chocolate chip cookie every day to keep your teeth clean, you would never go back to that dentist.

Carol: Boy. But does it sound good?

Anthony: Yeah. And people like to hear it. But I thought Kibble cleaned their teeth. No. 80% of dogs in this country have periodontal disease before they're three years old. But going back to Mozzie, I mean, he's never had a teeth clean his life. He's been raw fed since he was six months old. Um, and he gets raw meaty bones all the time. But anyways, I do blood work with him because he's a senior. So just to test, um, make sure everything's good. That's the only money I spent on him as far as vet bills. Um, and we've had my vet on the podcast before, but you didn't bring.

Carol: Him here for us today, so I know.

Anthony: No, uh, he's a great guy. Um, but he said something too, I think, on our podcast, actually had mentioned that in China when you get sick, you don't go back to that doctor that you had been going to because they didn't do their job to keep you healthy.

Carol: Interesting.

Anthony: So it's all about preventative care. Mhm. And um, that's kind of his aspect to it too. His perspective on it too.

Brett: That's good.

Why do you think owning a pet is so important for individuals and families?

Brett: We've read that, um, and you've heard that pet ownership is vital for many people, especially older adults who are not able to socialize as they did in their earlier years. Why do you think owning a pet is so important for individuals and families? Because obviously you see that dynamic walking in your store every day. So you knew something about that beforehand, but you're seeing it in real life with the store. What do you think, uh, what's your feelings about why it's so important and how to cultivate it?

Anthony: Well, it keeps you moving, it keeps you active. You got to and it gives you a sense of purpose as well. You're taking care of something that you really love. And um, I saw this question and I thought, there's one customer in particular. She's older, she's in her eighty s and um, she just got a golden retriever less than two years ago. And this thing very well, the way she takes care of it's probably going to outlive us all. Um, but it just gives her so much purpose and it keeps her so active. I feel like she's so much healthier, um, because of it, um, because of her dog. And her family helps her out and she has plans in case something happens, um, what happens to the dog and all that, but this dog gives her so much life. Um, obviously I don't recommend rescuing a 70 pound pit bull from the pound. Not for everyone. Right, right. True. Finding the right dog, um, maybe or on that same token, like, not getting a border collie like I have super active doesn't stop, there's no stopping those dogs. Um, but finding something that's a little more laid back. But, um, as far as for the older generation, I think it brings you a lot of joy, it brings you a lot of happiness. Um, I think we all saw during COVID how detrimental just being, um, secluded, being lonely was to a lot of people. And so having that pet in your life can really bring you a lot of joy. And I think there's also a lot of good data, good research showing what it does on your stress levels, decreasing, uh, stress levels and keeping you active and, um, actually extending your longevity as well.

Carol: Really giving you a positive outlook on life. Um, as you said, um, when, um, you have something, someone to focus on, to help and support, um, it's really helping you, too. So you're reducing stress, you're getting more exercise, positive outlook.

How can we make pet ownership easier for older adults? Are there other tips

Carol: Next logical question. How can we make pet ownership easier for older adults? Are there any other tips that you might have for them?

Anthony: Yeah, well, again, I think breed is important. I think paying attention to what kind of breed you're getting is, um, really important. Getting a really big, strong dog might not be the best bet.

Carol: I've seen that in my neighborhood. People who are just like, the leash is taut as the dog is dragging them.

Anthony: There's a place for little smaller dogs in this world. Teacups yeah, I think finding the right dog is probably the most important thing.

Carol: One of our, uh, previous, um, podcasting experts came in and um, one of the local food banks, more m than one of the local, but many of the local food banks, um, actually get donations of pet food to help people who are also using the food bank. Um, that's all kibble, that might be a strategy that we would want to look at and say, what can we do to help the dogs stay healthy? Because that individual, that older individual, if they're using a food bank, they don't have money for a vet.

Anthony: Yeah, um, there's an interesting, um, case to be made for, uh, specifically like, homeless people that have pets. Um, they're actually really healthy. I mean, a lot of times they're really healthy. Metabolically. They're really healthy because they're walking a lot, they're outside a lot. They're being able to use their senses and smell, uh, and investigate and being in different environments. It's more like their ancestral living than being stuck in a back in suburbia, in the backyard whole entire life. Um, and I also think those animals too, I've seen a lot of them and most of them look really healthy and I think they're also getting fed food. So we think that I hear a lot of times people say, we don't feed any table scraps. And I'm like, what does that even mean? I mean, food is food. There's not human food and there's not dog food. It's just food. Right? So knowing what foods dogs can eat and what's good for them and being able to supplement with that I think is really important.

Carol: And too, I think the message is that when I'm thinking table scraps, I'm thinking food that has been cooked in a way that's not good for an animal. So there's that differentiation.

Anthony: Yeah. Um, obviously cooked bone is not good, right? So bone is the ancestral diet of a dog, right? So, um, uh, most of our diets are about 10% bone. Um, we have a lot of people that do DIY that 50% of the diet is turkey necks or chicken necks or uh, wings, things like that. Um, because dogs are meant to digest raw bone. But uh, when it's cooked, the collagen hardens and can splitter and can cause some choking, intestinal damage and things like that. Um, but yeah, there's obviously some foods that you want to avoid with the dog. But um, most of the stuff it's funny. Um, we did a podcast with Dr. Ian Billinghurst, who's this, um, he's an older vet from Australia. He's not practicing anymore, but um, in Australia he's talking about on the podcast, everyone was feeding table scraps for up until like the mid eighty s and the ninety s. Everyone was just feeding your dogs table scraps. Whatever the kids were eating, the dogs were eating too. And his dogs were healthy. The dogs that are coming in his practice were healthy dogs. Almost no cancer, uh, no kidney issues, the diabetes, uh, dental health was good. No periodontal disease. It wasn't until they introduced processed pet food down there. Um, around that time when you started seeing the Uptake and all those issues.

Carol: Okay.

Brett: Yeah. Working with you has opened my eyes to what I do with our dog. And also I'm an advocate of just when the conversation comes up about what they feed their pet, kind of talking about what you've talked about without telling them what to do. It's like I've heard, I've heard, I heard like working with fangs and fur, it's kind of fun. But when we first started working too with the podcast and me learning Too cost factor came into mind, going, yeah. And me looking at the price point, going, I want to do better for the miles. But yet there's a cost factor. And I think anybody listening to the podcast would think that as well, too. And I think it's that you kind of walk into it. But as you mentioned earlier, too, there's that cost of the vet. Well, if you don't do this, you're going to have to pay for it at the vet as well, too.

Anthony: You're going to pay for it eventually.

Brett: Yeah. And I'm going to give an example of how I jumped into this. And I want you to go further with this. You mentioned no kibble shaming. And you mentioned in one episode, just add water to that kibble, and it'll be amazing what it'll do. So let's take that to the next steps. Like, what are some simple things that are cost effective? Yeah, cost effective. They're on a fixed budget that, you know, I want to do better for him or her, but I can't do that. I can't do that. But maybe list some things that are just really easy to do that are already in the house.

Dogs aren't good at absorbing carbohydrates, so getting natural enzymes is important

Anthony: They really start to decline. Um, so getting those natural enzymes in there. So goat milk is really relatively inexpensive. You add a couple of ounces in their bowl. And it can go a long ways. Um, bone broth, just, um, be careful. There's definitely certain herbs you don't want to use and you don't want a lot of sodium in there either. Um, but there's a lot of good companies that are doing, uh, bone broth for dogs, specifically, crude carnivore and Phyto's bone broth and, um, green juju. These are all ones that you can find in a lot of your better pet food stores. Um, and so those are some great additives. Um, even at home, if you're going to feed like, fruits and vegetables, that's great. Um, I always tell people the more you break down the fruits and vegetables, the more they're going to be able to absorb it. So dogs aren't good at absorbing carbohydrates. Um, they don't have any salivary amylase, which is an enzyme that we have in our mouth that breaks down carbohydrates. They don't have that. Um, and they have very little, if any, in their gut. So, um, if you puree, let's say, a carrot, or you steam a carrot, the dog will actually be able to absorb that nutrients. Um, so I see a lot of times people treat with baby carrots and stuff and I'm like, but have you seen the carrot on the back end? And they're like, yeah, because it doesn't change. You see that the carrot goes in, comes out the same way it went in. Um, because, uh, they can't break it down. They have a hard time breaking down cellulose, which is like the cellular wall of plant cells. Um, pureeing or steaming the fruits and vegetables.

Carol: Um, and that's not a difficult process either. You're not doing anything special to it. I mean, many of us vegetables, yeah.

Anthony: You can actually steam it or puree it and then stick it in the fridge and just use it as like, a topper if they like it. Um, I'm also a huge proponent if you're feeding processed food, they're getting a lot of carbohydrates anyways, so I'm a big proponent of giving them some more organ meat or some more just meat in general. Um, raw meaty bones is a great raw chicken necks, raw turkey necks, raw duck necks, things like that are great additives to their diet. Um, those are nature's toothbrushes. Um, you look at wild canids, they don't have dental, you know. Um, as a matter of fact, they don't have a lot of the issues our dogs do.

Brett: Um, because I started giving miles, uh, the turkey necks and chicken necks. Yeah, it's kind of gross at first if you're not used to it, of course. But it's so fun to watch him go in the backyard. He'll take it and he sits in the backyard and he just starts chewing on this thing. And his eyes close. He's enjoying it. Just pure bliss. Just loving it, whipping it around, just trying to get at it. It's just so fun to watch him because he just loves that moment of eating it.

Anthony: Yeah. For me, I don't think there's anything better for their teeth. A, um, lot of times, people feed, like, greenies and things like that, but you have to understand, those are mostly just rice flour. Um, I think that's the first ingredient in most of those, and going to that vegetable oils and seed oils and things that they should never be eating.

Let's talk about ingredients just for a bit. So you're conscious about the treats you want to buy

Brett: Let's talk about ingredients just for a bit. So you're conscious about the treats you want to buy. And there's some good ones on the shelf that are not multi ingredient. So what are the ingredients we should be avoiding? The carb stuff that actually is carbs, that it says grain free, but maybe it's not, because you're specifically looking for some grain free, but you're trying to reduce those carbs.

Anthony: Yeah, grain free doesn't mean carb free. It's kind of a marketing scheme. Right. Um, grain free just means there's no grains, but they use legumes or beans, um, things like that, um, which are arguably worse. So, uh, for me, a lot of the treats we sell in the shop are just single ingredient treats. Beef liver, chicken jerky, um, bison liver. Um, or we have some, uh, lake green juju has, like, a freeze dried treat. And it's like bison is a main ingredient, but they have beets and, uh, blueberries, just like other lower glycemic vegetables or fruits in there, um, which are all really packed with antioxidants and really important vitamins and minerals form. Um, you just want to see whole foods. That's all you want to see.

Brett: You're trying to do the right thing, but then all of a sudden, they're packing in this. Yeah, and I've read that, too. I'm going, oh, I put it right back on the shelf. And I'm looking at, in other places, like, not mislabeling, but kind of deceptive. Grain free. Grain free. It's like, well, wait a minute, it has tapioca and rice flaw going well.

Anthony: Yeah.

Brett: Okay.

Anthony: There's a lot of things the marketing is a big issue. Um, there's a lot of people pushing for a more, um, accurate depiction of what's actually in the bag. Um, because right now, if you flip your bag of dry food or kibble over, and you look at the guaranteed analysis, and you'll see protein, fat, moisture, ash, you don't see carbohydrates on there, because legally, they don't have to put carbohydrates on that label. The sad thing is interesting. Yeah, it's very interesting, because the majority of the diet is actually carbohydrates.

Carol: Right.

Anthony: But yet they're excluding that from the list. Um, so if you subtract those things from 100, you get your carb count. It's usually 40% to 60%, which is an extremely high number. But carbs are really cheap. Um, and then the ingredient label, um, a lot of times, people will find it's by weight. Right. So you'll see, like, beef as a first ingredient. However, they're allowed to put that on the ingredient list. Before it's processed. Everything else on that list is processed, but the meat one isn't processed. So it's 80% water. So once it's processed, it's down to almost nothing. It really should be the maybe twelveTH or 13th ingredient on the list. Um, so that's another. There's a whole bunch of every nutritionist.

Carol: Who talks to somebody who's trying to reconfigure their own diet. They all say, you've got to not just read that list, but understand what's there. Boy, this is even more critical because, um, the regulations are so loose, very loose.

Anthony: Um, there's a company that, um, they did a DNA analysis on a kibble just a few months ago and it was supposed to be a simple lamb and rice formula. Um, and they found out that there was also turkey, there's chicken, there was venison, there was beef. Uh, but there's also dog in the dog food. Um, because a lot of these companies are getting meat from rendering facilities which are using meat. They're using euthanized animals, they're using dead, down, diseased animals, 40 animals. They're using, um, grocery store meats that aren't even unwrapped. They're still wrapped in the plastic. And, uh, you just throw it in a huge VAT and cook it all, um, into a powder and sell it to a lot of these pet food companies. So, um, yeah, you got to be very careful.

Find a vet that's open to, um, feeding real food

Carol: So how many times have you heard clients talk about going to the vet and discussing the issues their pet has? And the vet's off on one tangent, they're off of another tangent. And, um, there's just no real conversation. What do people need to be aware of? And what do they need to know when they're going to talk to the vet about their pet's food choice?

Anthony: Yeah, I'm a big proponent of finding a vet. I have some customers that just don't tell their vets. And I'm not a big fan of that, to be honest with you. I want them to know what my pet's eating. It's really important, if not one of the most important things that they're doing. Um, yeah, I, um, would say first, find a vet that's open to, um, feeding real food. Which sounds so stupid to say. Um, but they're out there. But they're out there.

Carol: For those of us who have never been pet owners, this is, um, you.

Anthony: Know, there's the American, um, Holistic Veterinary Society. I think it's the website, if you google it, um, the website pops up and it will find holistic veterinarians in your area.

Carol: Um, so that's something that we should put into our show notes to make.

Anthony: Sure people can find or integrative looking, uh, for integrative vets as well. Usually the integrative vets are going to be, um, either proponents or advocates of feeding more fresh food. Um, like my vet at Dr. Carlson at Lifetime Pet is a very big proponent of it, um, just because he is. Kind of interesting story, but long story short, is he saw the difference that whole food vitamins made compared to synthetic vitamins. And that turned them on to said, wait a second. The dogs that I'm treating with whole food vitamins are doing way better than dogs that are not. Um, so then that turned them on to whole food and then that was it. Um, you have to understand, and I don't blame vets for this, actually. I've talked about this before, but I I blame the the education system.

Carol: Um.

Anthony: Uh, I think they're failing the veterinarians and the veterinarian students. Um, they're not putting enough emphasis on nutrition. And the nutrition education that they're getting is highly, highly, um, um what's the word I'm looking for? Very influenced by, um, the big box pet food companies. They have feeding programs for the veterinary students. So these vet students are tens of debt. Um, they're given free food to or like, heavily discounted food. Um, so that's kind of how they get them hooked. Um, a lot of these colleges or universities don't want to have, um, someone with a PhD in nutrition come teach about nutrition. They just would rather have, like, a rep come in and talk to the students about the food. So you have all these dry pet food and they won't allow raw food companies in there. Um, again, uh, I feel bad for the vets because they're not getting, um, the proper education on nutrition. Um, and I think they're being failed. Um, but I think it's looking into what you're feeding. I can't tell you how many times I've had a customer come in and tell me, yeah, I took my dog to the vet and they did a full analysis of my dog, and they just couldn't believe how healthy he looked compared to the last time they saw him. And, um, they asked me, what have I been doing? I said, well, we transitioned to a raw food diet. And then they just went off my customers. And I told the vet, like, you just told me my dog was the best he's ever looked. He's the healthiest he's ever been. And now you're saying what I'm doing is wrong. Um, which is just kind of sad. If the evidence is right in front of you, smacks you in the face, you still don't see it well.

Carol: And an owner is going to feel like, oh, my gosh, person in a.

Anthony: White jacket tells that that's wrong.

Carol: Right?

Anthony: Uh, so I think finding the right vet is going to be the most important thing. And I think that'll draw a lot of vets into who are kind of I mean, there's some veterinarians that really dug their boots in about this, but there's some veterinarians that are still very open minded. And I think it'll turn more veterinarians to be more open minded about this when they see, um, more and more people feeding real food, fresh food, raw food, and their dogs, they see their dogs and how healthy they are. Um, and people being honest with them and what they're doing. I think a lot of veterinarians, too, are concerned that people are doing, like, DIY diets, which I'm okay with, as long as you've done your research.

Carol: Tell me what a DIY diet is.

Anthony: Just, uh, like a do it yourself diet. So, um, they'll home cook for their dogs or put together a raw meal for their dogs. Um, this is funny. Dr. Billinghurst, uh, the Australian veterinarian I was talking about before, he's like, you know, wolves and dingoes and coyotes, they don't have spreadsheets out there in the wild, you know what I mean? And there's a lot of raw feeders that I mean, I swear I used to be one of them that had spreadsheets because I used to do a lot of DIY. Just make sure my calcium to phosphorus ratio is a one to one. It's crazy. And then you watch, uh, there's a really cool documentary on, I think it was a Netflix. It's called the Kingdom, uh, of the White Wolf, I think, is what it's called. It's a National Geographic one. And this guy is essentially going around like the arctic Circle following these pack of huge arctic wolves, right? And these pups are eating, like, they might get a bone once every, like, four days. And we're talking right in their prime growing stages. And they grow up to be these huge arctic wolves, beautiful arctic wolves, you know what I mean? And believe me, they're not eating, uh, a complete and balanced diet by AFCO standards. But what they are eating is real food. When they do get the food, they are eating real food. Um, I'm not saying that you shouldn't take it seriously and you shouldn't try to balance it. Um, but getting a lot of variety in the diet is a good way to avoid deficiencies and making sure there's a lot of good books and a lot of good resources on doing DIY diets. Dr. Judy Morgan is a really she's got a famous pup loaf, which is like a recipe online. Um, uh, just some raw food, um, recipes as well. But she's a good person to know.

Carol: Anthony's giving us a lot of tips and people and we'll get all of this information in our show notes so our audience can hear it again.

There's a ton of research out there online on dog nutrition

Brett: Well, as you mentioned, there's a ton of research out there online. Where would you suggest, if you're just starting fresh, the best resources to just dive into as a beginner, as a I'm interested, who should they look at first?

Anthony: Well, my podcast, of course.

Brett: Uh, I was just going to say you do a good job of watering this information down and then wetting the listeners appetite, going, I want to learn more about Karen Becker and Dr. Ian Bellenhurst, that sort of thing. It pulls you in. It really does, because it's interesting.

Anthony: Yeah. But there's a lot of good resources. Um, I mean, there's good people to follow, right? So you have, like and then maybe that's the best way to do it. Yeah, I think it know, everyone's attention span is too short these days. Social media is a good way to kind of get started, and if you're really interested, you can take it further. But following Dr. Karen Becker and Rodney Habib, they kind of are, um, a pair. And, um, following, um, dr. Judy Morgan. Very active on Facebook and Instagram.

Brett: Um, well, even our friend, uh, Girls Gone Raw yeah, she does some good stuff.

Anthony: Yeah. Following, uh, Lauren Becks on Girls, uh, Gone Raw, um, her Instagram, she's very active on and does really good job on educating people. Um, she's not afraid to put information out there. So a lot of times and stuff.

Brett: That doesn't work for yeah.

Anthony: Yeah, a lot of times I'll put out information and people from all over who don't follow me start chiming in, and I got to turn the comments off because I just don't have time for that. I, um, feel bad for your dogs, but that's a whole nother thing.

Carol: Um.

Anthony: And there's tons of good books. There's kind of what I would call a revolutionary book. Um, The Forever Dog that came out is it last year, maybe two years ago now. It was very dense with a lot of research and data and some really awesome studies, um, showing how beneficial but it went through a lot. It kind of talked about how toxic the world is that we live in, and then it's kind of doom and gloom, and then it's about, okay, here's what we can do about it. Um, and feeding real food, feeding fresh food was one of the biggest things you could do.

Carol: Anthony. This has been phenomenal. Uh, and even though I don't have a pet, I have favorite pets, so I do have to give a shout out to my neighbor's pet, Toby, who's one of my favorite little dogs. She's absolutely adorable. So, um, I hope Toby is listening today.

Anthony: Just know that dogs aren't supposed to be gross

Carol: We always give our guests an opportunity to give, um, words of wisdom. What have we not had a chance to talk about today? Or something that you really want to make sure people have heard?

Anthony: Yeah, I don't know if I have words of wisdom, but I guess specifically to the topic we're talking about, and I say this a lot, Bret hears me say it a lot, is dogs and cats for this matter, too. Um, cats, by the way, are obligate carnivores, so there's absolutely no reason why they should be eating dry, processed pet feed. But that's a whole different story. Dogs, um, and cats, for that matter. But dogs are not supposed to be gross, so we have a lot of, um I always tell people, if you go to the park, you go to the dog park and you pet a dog. And it's crazy. It's like their teeth are rotting out of their mouth. They're oily, like you pet them and your hands are now oily and they smell bad. Um, they're pooping out cow pies. None of this should be happening. But this is how our mindset is now. We think of dogs as like, these gross things that live in our house. And I have three dogs. They're not gross. They eat the right diet. And that eliminates a lot of these things from happening. So, um, just know that dogs aren't supposed to be gross. Dogs. I see a lot of it out there with, um, a lot of dogs who are severely overweight, um, have lumps all over them, terrible, um, teeth. And it's starting to become the norm. And I don't want that to happen. I'm afraid that's already started to happen. But, um, we can do better. And then also just honoring your dog's ancestry, I think, respecting their evolutionary history. Um, there's a book called Embracing Your Dog's Wild. I think it's by, uh, gosh, what's his name? Brian Bailey, I think is his name. Um, he's a dog trainer. And this is more of a, uh, behaviorist kind of perspective, but just, um, embracing the wild in your dog. I've said this a lot. Dogs, they're not wolves. I'm not saying they are, but they do share 99.96 of their mitochondrial DNA with the wolf. Um, it is their closest living ancestor. They do produce viable offspring with wolves. Um, there's wolf dog hybrids out there. So my point is that they are very similar. Their physiology is almost identical. The way they eat food, the way they break it down and assimilate it is almost identical to that of the gray wolf. So, um, getting back to those kind of roots, especially when it comes to diet, um, is really important.

Brett: Well, thanks, Anthony. Fangs and fur. Podcast fangs and Fur store. Keep that in mind. Uh, go to their website and lots of other resources there as well, too. And listeners, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to check out our show notes for contact information and resources that we talked about in the episode. And you can find all this as well on our website, LookingforwardOur Way.com And we are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.

Anthony: Bye.