THE TELEPHONE LINE THEORY — A GAME-CHANGER FOR PARANORMAL INVESTIGATION

In this episode of Pursuit of the Paranormal, Greg and Sarah from Beyond Our Ordinary take over the episode to break down a brand-new way of understanding spirit communication — a concept we call The Telephone Line Theory.

This theory suggests that ghosts and spirits don’t just randomly appear…they communicate when people, objects and places align.

Just like a phone call, both ends must pick up the line.

Is paranormal activity truly random or is it synchronised communication based on People, Objects, and Places finally connecting at the same moment?

This episode blends science, psychology, energy, and real-world paranormal evidence to create a framework that could reshape how investigators work.

www.pursuitoftheparanormal.co.uk

Hello, Sarah.

Hey.

Here we are again on the Part 2 boo takeover of Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast.

Yes, we are.

And we've got some mad stuff to talk about tonight.

What the last few weeks it has been.

Has indeed. It has indeed. So.

I actually don't even know where to begin.

I know, because it's so chunky and where we've been talking about this, doing this episode for the last couple of days. I'm trying to put it in some kind of order. And this episode is almost like.

The.

Prelude to our workshop at Spooks and Spirits Fest on Saturday.

Yeah. And I'm really hoping that people understand all of this and it makes sense because it's very complex.

It's very complex what we are about to say. Yeah. There's a lot of information.

And we decided that we would get this episode out as soon as possible this week so that if people are coming to Priest College on Saturday, we have got. How long have we got on Saturday for our workshop?

I think it's 45 minutes, but we're gonna have to condense down the PowerPoint at the beginning.

Yeah. So the point of this episode is for us to do a slightly longer version of our explanation of our theory.

Yeah. So if anyone wants to know a bit more in advance or even after Saturday, they can listen to this and we don't need to go over it again and again.

Yeah. Happy to talk to people about it. But this is our way of getting it all down in a structured way.

Because the way we've been discussing it together for the last few weeks. At least few weeks. It's been longer than that, but it started to come together. The last few weeks has been very fragmented.

And as we've been, something else would happen and then that would slightly change things and something else would happen and we'd try something else and something else would happen and we would be like, okay, we need to try and get it in some kind of order. We'll get it down in audio form so people can digest it at their leisure, because.

And there's loads of branches coming off it now as well. So, like, we can go through the basics and the start of some of the little branches that we've now started to develop off this theory. There's a lot.

There is a lot.

And for people that don't know us, I'm one half of Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast, you're one half of Twinvestigate uk, and we've been working on this together for some time now. And we'll start at the beginning in a minute and explain how we even got to where we're trying to get to.

And that's quite cryptic, but you'll see what, see what we mean soon. And it's only when we've been looking over in prep that we realize that certain things that have happened have kind of helped us improve our theory.

And this weekend has really got us to that. That point.

Oh yeah, it stepped it up a notch.

This, this weekend has actually showed us or shown us that we're in the right direction, we're going in the right way with it and we could be on to something.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

So should we start right at the beginning?

Right. So to those that haven't pieced it together already, this is the telephone line theory.

Yeah. And when we start explaining it, hopefully people will go, ah, that makes sense.

Yes.

But what we. So for people that don't know about Boo and beyond our ordinary. We started almost a year ago now. It's mad the transformation of BOO for the.

Over the last 12 months. And we started looking at.

Because we're paranormal investigators, we looked at 3D printed equipment that we could use that was affordable for people and they could use it on investigations. And that's, that's where we started 12 months ago.

Didn't realize that 12 months later that our core, for want of a better phrase, items that we now sell are a world away from the original tripwire EMF meter that we started doing. And we've gone on a journey really of discovery, self discovery as well. Because we, we, we look at beyond our rod, me as more of a brand.

And as you can see, when the theory, we start talking about the theory, you'll see that it's, it's almost forced us to change where we're going with this a little bit.

It's almost becoming a research team, almost a bit of an approach to investigating rather than just an equipment company.

There's more to it and there's more to us. And if you see our videos on TikTok, you'll see that we do some funky dancing and stuff like that.

So we're, we, we, we're paranormal investigators at heart though. We absolutely are.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And through personal loss for both of us of a parent.

It, it's driven this a little bit.

Driven. Yes, it has. Yeah, it has. And this weekend really blew it all up in my eyes of what we're doing is the right thing.

Yeah. And, and we will get to it further down the line. So we, we urge anyone listening to to bear with us and stick with us through this.

Because Greg's been trying for 34 years to hear from his dad.

And we think that through our theory and putting our theory into practice, that we may have cracked those first little dribbles of contact and connection.

Let's just say it's a little nugget of teas. Three and a half minutes in two sessions over the weekend. Got more from essentially seven minutes over the weekend than having 34 years.

Yeah. All because of this theory.

Because of this theory.

Yeah.

Our experiments.

Yeah. So should we delve into it? Should we get going?

Let's go right back.

Start right in the bottom. Start at the bottom of the pit.

Gone.

So it all started with something that we. A discussion that we had again between me and you, me and Greg. And we were thinking about our equipment and what makes our equipment different.

And we decided that we were selling watts. So we have a. Sort of theory to put different types of equipment into different categories.

So, for example, cues are pieces of equipment that tell you that a change has happened, not necessarily paranormal, but that there's a change brewing. Something's fluctuated. Think your REM pods, pressure sensors, temperature sensors, things like that.

It's a queue that something paranormal might be happening. What are what we wanted to focus on? And they're things that an actual event that has happened. So a break in the trip wires that we sell.

Something's gone through the trip wires and created an event or a word being generated. Something's happened. And that was where we wanted to focus on the what's. And then we started thinking about the whys and why things happen.

And are we the. Are we sort of a trigger? Is it our perception? Are we needed in order for this to all be paranormal?

And that we decided that paranormal only becomes meaningful and only becomes paranormal when we understand the whys behind the what's and the cues.

Yeah.

Are you still with us, listeners? Are you still with us? Because even that one little bit.

Yeah. And it does make sense. So you've got the cues, the watts and the wise. And it's the whys that are driving all of this for us.

Yeah. It is the context and the reason.

The context is what makes it paranormal. And you will come on to this now that it's. It's difficult to. The next section will tell you exactly, and I think it will explain it.

But also as part of the whys, some of the.

The reasonings and the reason we've taken this angle is we wanted to know why did that happen to the person that happened to when it happened, in the place it happened.

And in that way.

And in that way, because somebody might say, I just heard something somebody next to him didn't. In the podcast, we. We speak to people who've had UFO experiences. Multiple people, and they've all had different experiences.

Yeah.

And that, again, reinforces the. Only the paranormal becomes meaningful only when you understand why. And that context is everything.

What's paranormal to you might not be paranormal to me.

It's subjective, isn't it?

It's very subjective.

And it kind of brings us to an example that we might as well address now at this point is one of the turning points for us was an investigation that we went to in the flower shop that first got us thinking, amongst a couple of other occasions, which we can talk about.

But when we went to investigate a flower shop in Whitchurch, and it was built on a Roman road and there were tunnels under the shop that monks used to use. There's a. A well there, and there's so much history there's in this building.

And we went to investigate and there were three of us there, and we were using a word bank, our word bank, our bor. And we got in this flower shop pretty much one after the other. The word Karen, which is my mom's name, and the word Monk, which is my mum's surname.

But it was then that we kind of realized that there were three different people in that experience at that time. And that meaning, that word meant different things to each person.

Yeah.

And to me, it was a deeply emotional thing and had nothing to do with the flower shop because it was Karen and Monk, and that was my mum's name. And to me it was just my mom. It was emotional and it was my mum. To you, it's mixed because you.

You kind of see, you perceive it as emotional because you were there, you knew my mom, you knew what I was thinking. But also because of the history of the building and the monks using the tunnels.

So it had a bit of moderate significance, but it was, you know, not quite as personal. And then Jen, who runs the flower shop, who owns the flower shop, for her, it was just quite fleeting.

Word monk, it, you know, related to the monks under the tunnels, and it was only a tiny part of the history of the building. It meant nothing else to her. And that was the first time we thought about these, how that was paranormal to.

To say two of us in some way out of the three and in different ways. And so with that, that got us really thinking about this Whole Why. Why did. Why again, the wise. Why was that paranormal and how.

It's subjective and it's your paranormal. And yeah, just one of the examples that we had.

It's interesting because had.

Had it been like say a public event, for example, and Jen didn't know you, you didn't know me, that neither of us knew each other and those words come through. I could have discounted the word Karen because it meant at that point would have meant nothing to me because I didn't know you.

I wouldn't have known your history, Monk. Maybe if I didn't know the history, I wouldn't have necessarily known Remon. Yeah, to Jen, absolutely. And you even more so.

So it's that the words are the meaning. The context is the paranormal meaning to you. So you.

If we'd have only had those two words come through the whole night, I could have gone away potentially and gone, oh, it turns out there were monks there and I'd have had kind of a. An almost a paranormal thing. I'd have gone, yeah. Jen would have gone, oh, that was a bit of a hit on the location.

And then you would have gone back to your family and friends and gone, oh, my God, my mum's name come through. But we had we not spoken about it afterwards and gone our own separate ways. Yeah, we would have had three different experiences.

Mine potentially not even paranormal to me at that point.

Yeah.

Knowing exactly you having this profound experience and Jen having an experience. So it again is all subjective and that proves that point. One thing I wanted to.

To lead just before we went to the flower shop was when we were at Priest Cottage.

This is where context comes into it.

100 and this was me and Ash were there. You're watching the Live as you do cheerleader for paranormal.

And we were getting the word apple through and me and Ash were just like, why is the word apple coming through a lot?

It's coming through a lot.

And we had it through on Spirit Box. We had it through on a boot core. It was coming through multiple times. It was just like, what the hell is apple all about?

And it was only when you kindly googled it, Apple, priests and church, that we discovered the link that apple was like a word that was used for.

Children, like a historical reference for children. Yeah, that was quite biblical as well. It was used a lot of. In a lot of texts as well, like a lot of older books.

I mean, we, you know, terms like apple of my eye, like it's. It's an older reference for children.

Yeah. And when you you text me it, because obviously we're on the live stream and I can see the text coming through. And then boom.

It goes from just a word on the screen of Apple to boom. It has a meaning associated with this location.

Yeah, the context added everything, didn't it? It completely changed everything.

Context made it paranormal.

It did. And then.

Just wanted to cover that a little bit. Sorry.

Yeah, no, it's fine. And then we. We added another example that now this is where it really changed for us. And we started really thinking about this theory is.

Now we have had results that we cannot explain. Now obviously we code it. It's a coded device, it has to be. It's an electronic device.

We code it to go off in certain circumstances and certain atmospheric changes.

But what we cannot code is why it selects that word and it random shuffles between each word and every time it detects a change that's maybe not quite hit the threshold to fire a word out, but it will randomize the words again every time it detects something. So it's constantly randomizing these words and we always get weird specific results. And this particular time was at Lost Soul Paracom, wasn't it?

And we were. We had the Boo core out. We're talking about the Buco and Dan Sprague and Adam Oakley were there and they came over to have a look.

And Dan Sprague picked up the Buchor and as soon as he did, his son's name came through. Noah, I think it was Noah. And it was like why? Why did that name of all names in that device, it chose to bring up Noah at that point.

And we started then thinking about the person using it. And again, context is everything. Because that would have meant nothing had it not been his son. But it chose him in that moment.

And we don't know why, but it's a great gateway, it's a great avenue for communication. And it was direct communication. Who from, we don't know.

But there was something about the person and we'll go into it deeper again shortly about this theory and why it didn't matter where he was, but he had the person there in that moment and that word came through. So then we dug a bit deeper and started thinking about why things happen. And this is where we came up with the telephone line theory.

So bear with us on this because this is where it gets muddier.

Yeah.

So pause it. Now go and get a cup of tea. Go and get a cup of tea or something stronger and get ready to be absolutely mind blown.

This theory, as we have for the last few weeks and months. So introduction to the telephone line theory.

Here we go. I'm not sure how we got this, though. I don't know how we set this.

This first initial theory about what you're about to describe with the three avenues. I'm not sure how we got there, but we did.

Yeah. Because I think where we had. We discovered, like, apple at the location. So we knew that location was important. Dan Sprague.

We knew that the person was important, and then we thought maybe an object. So I've. I've been trying to communicate or get a message from my dad for 34 years. Never got one. And I've been taking photographs around everywhere.

No. No. Nothing at all.

And interestingly, something that was said at Lost Soul Paracon, weirdly, by GTI as well, when they were up on stage, they were saying, how come I could communicate. Try and communicate with Reggie Cray or whichever Cray it was at one of the prisons, because he'd been there. Oh, okay.

Yes, that was it. But that was another thing that sparked us. Yeah.

Yeah. And it was. Okay, so maybe it's energies.

So we were looking at the person, someone the spirit knew, maybe an object, maybe something that's connected to them, and a place somewhere meaningful to that person or somewhere where it's had an impact during their life. And it could be anywhere. It could be. And that would explain that side of it why I can't speak to Amberlynn in my bedroom now.

Because there's no meaningful connection to Amberlynn that I'm aware of in this room. So, yeah, we started to talk about this in depth. We. We travel up and down the country for hours at a time, and it gives us plenty of time to.

To chat about.

To have this conversation hours and hours, like, over and over.

And we do. And then we wish we recorded it, because we didn't. And then we come up with some brilliant scheme and theory, and we have to try.

Yeah.

Go back through our minds. Notes to go through.

So, yes, we do. And I think if you have those three things. So to put it simply, before we delve a bit deeper, is that a spirit needs.

And there are different versions of spirits that need this. So we. We have this theory on this is only applicable to recent spirits, recent people that have passed recently.

And by that, we mean someone who still has someone on this living side that knew them in person. They still have a physical anchor to this world.

So they're bound by certain rules, and that is that in order to have direct, relevant, and clear Communication with us. They need the person, the object, and the place, the pot.

However, during these experiments that we've been doing, that we'll talk about in a second, we have started to discover that if you have. If you have an emotional line, it replaces the line of something else. So we found that having emotion has replaced the place line of those three.

Yeah.

And we'll explain why that we think that and. And why very soon when we delve into the actual experiments. But that acts like emotion acts a little bit like the backup line in the telephone line.

It's the backup energy. It's. It's something that older spirits don't have. And emotion is a very strong energy.

And because our living energy and our emotion is so much stronger than a spirit, these recent spirits have to abound by these rules of three lines. Do you think we should delve into this, the older spirits?

Yeah. So just to recap, go back to their personal object place.

When we talk about telephone line theory, this allows a spirit to pick up the telephone line on their end. We pick up the telephone line on our end, and we have a meaningful communication line between the two.

So that's where we come with the telephone line theory, that the spirit has to be able to pick up the phone.

We pick up a phone, and only when we're picking up the phone at the same time with certain requisites in place, does it allow us to give us a strong communication line. Hence why we called it a telephone line theory.

Yeah, exactly. So going off the back of recent spirits, this is what brings us to older spirits.

And we ask the question all the time as investigators, why do we not hear of recent spirits? And the answer is simply, we're not getting the direct line of communication.

We're not putting those three phone lines in place to get the gold of communication. Older spirits, when they don't have anybody. So this is our theory on.

On the older side, is that when they don't have anybody here in the living anymore, Their phone lines are not as restricted, but they're never going to be clear and direct because they don't have that emotion line, especially they don't have the person. They may not have the object if needed. They don't have all three. But that emotion is a backup line and will replace one of the others.

And if there's no emotion, they're never going to be able to. So these older spirits are kind of. It's like static dial tone. They're picking up their phone, and we're picking up the phone.

But it's not strong enough, it's not direct enough. So we've, we found this in examples that themed words start happening when there's no emotional connection to someone on the living.

We get themed words and we saw that when, when Kalani went to hat green he was getting army related words. He was getting like and green. And I don't know what else he.

Got but he had the word ancient. And because he had some ancient words coming through, it was all ancient.

It was very themed, wasn't it? And that's because the line was never going to be direct.

It's, it dissipates over time, it doesn't become as clear and eventually it will completely disappear.

And that's why we don't see in our theory Neanderthal ghosts trying to connect with us or dinosaurs because their lines have faded so much that they're never going to be able to even pick up the phone anymore, never mind dial someone. And it's very scatter. It doesn't make sense because it's, it's themed words. We saw it at Priest Cottage with Apple.

The direct form of communication would be children, child, boy, girl. But it wasn't, it was Apple. It was a theme. It was the only thing they could, could select really.

If you think about it in that way it becomes less direct. And you know, maybe that's because they are throwing out their phone lines in the hopes that they will get some connection.

And that's why you start to see people able to connect to or get results from all the spirits all around different buildings and things because they're just chucking out their phone lines because they're in a desperate attempt to not be forgotten because they haven't got that direct line anymore.

We said, we've said how sad that is that they haven't got that and they're trying to get it.

Yeah.

And maybe they put their phone line in different, as many different places as possible when they're not grounded by certain places and certain people and certain objects.

Maybe, you know, that 14th century Scottish knight can now suddenly anchor himself in lots of different locations where he's been instead of just is home or something like that.

And that's why we hear a lot from these older spirits than we do the ones that are still relatively recent because they're the ones that are bound by certain, I say laws of physics.

Yeah.

It's not quite physics but it's, you know, this laws of this pseudo science incomprehensible world.

Yeah, yeah. And it makes sense. And the more we started talking about it. You go, actually, that makes sense. And that's. That's allowed us to form this.

This telephone line theory.

And it supports stone tape theory as well, that the older spirits become more residual because they haven't got direct line. So it's. That supports all of that. The footsteps, the knocks, the bangs, things that are replayed.

You hear the same things over and over because they're faded into just static noise now. But it also brings us on to people.

And just because you have, like me and my sister lost our mom and me and I. I have yet, even through these experiments, have yet to have something direct happen to me where I am, like, yeah, that is clear communication direct to me. In these experiments, obviously, we've had a name come through before, but in these experiments, I've yet to have anything.

And I wonder, I might be in the right place. I might have the right object. I might not be the right person. Maybe they can only choose one line while they're still anchored.

Maybe they can only choose one person and it's Emma or my brother. And maybe they'd get different results. And that's why you hear mediums say to people, oh, I've got a message, but it's not for you.

Or I think there's someone trying to come through, but I'm not sure because they just can't quite place you with this person, with this line. Your emotion line is not strong enough to that person that you want to come through.

And that.

That's actually a good point to make about the fact that mediums, they're not really connected to the person, not collected to the object, they're not connected to the spirit, and they're not really connected to the place. And that backs our theory that mediums are like mobile phone networks. They can replace certain elements of this. And that's why mediums get tired.

They have people queuing up to speak to them. Because these spirits know that they're a conduit. They're like a mobile phone.

And that supports the telephone line theory that they can be the location bit. Somebody will turn up. I say, for example, I could go to a medium. Chance I'll take a photo, take something off my dad's. Most people take something.

Yeah.

So the person.

Mediums say that as well. They know that. They know.

Yeah, absolutely. And the person's there, me, the objects there, whatever it is of my dad's. And the place is replaced by the medium.

The medium uses emotion and the energy that he or she has got to create that Third line or the third wrong of the line.

Exactly. Because emotion replaces the place line most of the time. Predominantly.

Yeah, it's been a man.

Exactly. And, and I hope you're still with us. I hope you still understand what we're, what we're saying. And it, there's a lot more to digest with it.

But usually the people that the medium goes to, and you'll notice it a lot more now is that usually a medium will say, you've got your mum's ring with you today, haven't you? Are you wearing a watch? You're wearing something. As if they know that they've got the object line there.

They can sense the object line, they can sense the person and they're replacing the place line. And that makes perfect sense. And I think we need to probably digest now our experiments and how we know that emotion replaces the place line.

Yeah, yeah, right. So we decided to do some experiments this weekend. We thought about, okay, what locations could we test this theory out with?

Now, I lost my dad when I was young. I don't have a great deal of objects. It's many photos, that kind of thing.

But one thing I do have is the plaque from the crematorium from when my dad passed and was cremated. So I do have that. It's been with me ever since.

And before we, we talk about the experiment, one thing that strange did happen to me over the last year that allowed me to think that the, the plaque could be something in it. I've never had any meaningful conversation and communication with my dad.

But about a year ago, for various reasons, I tried to make contact with my family again. Long story, doesn't matter. But I'd sent this relative a message via text, say on the the weekend and hadn't heard anything back for nearly a week.

So I was in the process selling my house and looking to move. So I was cleaning my dad's plaque and I became quite emotional and I said, dad, I'm trying to get the family back together.

I don't know what else to do. What can I do? I've sent text messages to this person and whatnot. And literally a week had gone by.

Nine minutes after I'd essentially called out for help, I get a text message from the person. And that was communication that started for a little while.

So whilst I didn't know about then, and it wasn't even on our radar for anything like this, it was something that showed that there was some kind of connection to my dad there somewhere. So we decided to do experiment on people, objects and place we were down south this weekend in Oxfordshire. So we said, what better?

Then we'll go to a cemetery where my nan and granddad buried, which was my dad's mum and dad. And on the headstone is my nana, my granddad. And also on the.

A headstone on the, the, the grave itself, because they're buried in the same plot, was my dad and my uncle. Their names and dates of birth and dates of death.

And whilst they weren't there, that was obviously a massive emotional sort of location for the family. Family. All the family weddings and funerals all took place in that church. So we decided, let's do an experiment.

Let's take my dad's plaque to that location and see if we can get any meaningful communication because we've got me as the person, we've got the object, my dad's plaque and we've got the location. But we also decided to try because we knew people would say, well, it could be biased. You do it. So we've done a blind test.

So we got two identical boxes. We put my dad's plaque in one box and we put a roll of Sellotape. It turned our packing tape into the other one.

We didn't know which was in each box and I turned my back and Sarah chose a box and put one of those boxes behind the grave. So there's no way I could have known what was in either of the boxes. Although I knew where they were, I couldn't see in them.

So we ran the experiment twice. Once with the object but not knowing it was the object, and once with the decoy, as we called it. Not knowing it's a decoy.

And because it chucks out words, we decided to just write down what words came through. When we asked a series of questions, there was no context put to those words at that moment.

We just recorded what word came out during a 45 second question and a gap, basically. Then we moved on to the next question.

We tried to keep it quick so there was no delay of words and you could wait for a word to come through that eventually just from probability would come through. So we kept it quick, short something we could replicate easy on a mass scale without it taking up too much time.

So we've got me, we've got my, my dad's plaque at the cemetery with. So we got three communication lines. The gold, like the, the, the golden triangle, as it were. The gold dust.

Yeah.

Connection. In our mind, that could be quite possibly the strongest connection we will get on the phone line theory.

So we decided to try this cemetery experiment.

We did. And we also. The questions.

One important thing to note is that we tried to keep the questions as simple as possible, as clear as possible, but we also had a control question so that we asked questions. I mean, I'll read them out in a second if, if you want.

We threw a random control question in there in case we did get intelligent results from the other questions. The control question, if we didn't, would mean that that person was not able to answer outside of the three lines and questions relating to that.

They weren't throwing out anything else. They weren't intelligent enough as such to acknowledge anything outside of whatever they've experienced or are aware of themselves.

And it also allowed us, because it was a controlled question that you couldn't, you couldn't sort of like stretch to an answer and go, well, it could have meant that. It could have meant that. As you'll hear when Sarah tells you the question, it's quite a blunt, straightforward. It's either right or wrong.

There's no real subjectivity in it. It's. It is what it is. So we've had the experiment twice. I done it with the decoy, not knowing the object, not knowing.

Then Sarah also done the same thing and I swapped the boxes so she didn't know which box was which. And we repeated it. So we had an object, we had a location, but we didn't have the person potentially. So we decided.

So it was essentially a double blind.

Test and we wanted to know how significant the person line actually is.

Yeah, yeah. So what were the questions? What did we go for?

So we went far. We did change these because again, we'll come on to it. But we redid the experiment at a different location and we added another question in.

But the five that we started with were, can you give me a word that relates to where we are? Can you give me a word that relates you to me? Then we had a control question, can you tell me what the weather is like?

And then the last two were, can you give me a word that relates you to this location? So rather than a description of the current location that we're in, what relates you to it? To try and dig a bit deeper onto its intelligence.

And then the last one was, can you tell me something that relates to me? And it was the answers that, I mean, straight off, I can see of my knowledge there were three significant hits on those questions. You would say four.

And it was weird because once that particular box was done, I could tell straight away which box was which. It became obvious to me, which was quite mad thinking about it. And there's no bias in these words. No these words. I'm just saying what word came out.

It's not me going exactly like, it's.

This or you can't lie, you can't make it up. It's all factual. And so the. When we ask these questions, the words that we got for your. Your dad's plaque.

Yeah.

Was that was box A. It was the first one you did, but you weren't aware at the time. Can you give me a word that relates to where we are?

The word tower came through and it. It means, you know, doesn't mean it's your dad.

At that point, it was just whatever we were talking to recognized that we were stood beneath the tower. We were quite close to the church tower, weren't we?

And it's a big church as well. It's quite a prominent church.

Exactly, exactly. And then we asked, can you give me a word that relates you to me?

And the word mine came through and that instantly because I knew that was your dad's box. So when it came through mine, I was like, oh, my goodness.

Like, the question before could have been a very themed answer, but as soon as you were the one it was asking about, it was like mine. That was very clear. And then the last question for me was, can you tell me something that relates to me? And 49 came through. And you.

That's your next birthday.

Yeah.

Just to out you a little bit there on your age.

And just months.

You're going to be 49.

It's not exactly.

Exactly you. It's months away. And it's like when you get to your birthday, that's like months away. You start saying, I'm going to be 49 soon.

Or it, it stops being, I'm 48. It's, I'm gonna be 49. Or. And we've spoke about this in other parts of things as well. And then. So those three questions really stuck out for me.

The answers we had the control question.

Oh, yes, yes.

Can you tell me what the weather's like? And the word above came and I mean, again, you could argue that it's a theme.

You could argue, well, that doesn't really relate to weather, but above the sky is. That's where the weather is. So.

Exactly.

I mean, we, we didn't. We. We used it, but we, it wasn't as strong as the other ones. For definitely.

Yeah. And then obviously when we did the, the tape, the decoy box, the questions were the Same. And we've got nothing really of significance at all.

We didn't even get the weather on one of them. Not even no answer.

I got nothing. And, and so that was already a significant enough starting point because we don't know what we need to strengthen those lines properly yet.

But that was enough for us to think we'd aligned them perfectly. The telephone lines. He was there on his end, picking up and we were picking up and we were connecting somehow.

Yeah.

And the word mine made it personal. We knew then it must have been your dad who we were calling for, who we were asking for because of the experiment.

Like we put in his object in that place for you. As soon as he. It said mine, we knew that this was the person it was intended to be.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And, and then. But what is interesting to note is between the experiment of you and me, the word blonde came up twice on each box.

Yeah.

Before we started the timing of the questions, blonde came up and then blonde came up again when we were moving the boxes.

Yeah.

As if they were going, who, who's the blonde? Like, who's the blonde person? Or just acknowledging me somehow. So something was there.

Because you're relatively doing my life. Obviously not so much now. It's been a couple of years.

Yeah.

In terms of long longevity, in 49 years, two years is. Is not that long. So, yeah, it was an interesting nod to the fact that you, you were there as well.

Yeah.

And we. We did introduce you though, as well, didn't we, so.

Yeah, we did. Yeah. Yeah, we did. I mean, they might have been saying, I like the blonde.

I'm sure that's what.

He's the blonde, Greg. But what is interesting, though.

Oh, no, I thought it was when we boxes, but I'm looking at the paperwork and it was actually on the first question for each box.

Yeah.

So the paperwork. Can you give me a word that relates to where we are? This was blonde came through as the first word and that was for your dad's plaque.

But again it came through on the decoy box. Blonde for the same question. So what that means, I've no idea. But again, I didn't get anything at all, really. That, that kind of. That, that clicked.

So I didn't feel that I wasn't the right person. I was not the right person.

And that whole experiment proved that we had the place, we had the object, and when it was you, the person, we got connection with the person we wanted the spirit that we intended to connect with in some way. And bear in mind your Dad's not done it before, so it might. This is all quite weak.

And again, you can build that telephone line, you can build that connection. And that's why you go to a venue nine times and it's quiet, and then the 10th time it's busy, and then it's busy every time then.

And like, because are you, you know, the more you go somewhere, the more results you get. Because you're strengthening your phone line, because you're building that emotion as well.

Yeah, yeah.

But then we did a second test, didn't we?

We did, we did just to test.

The place with more objects.

So after the cemetery, we headed back to where we were staying and we decided that, okay, we've tested the location, a person, an object, and we had all three with me. So let's then try it where we were staying. So we.

Removing the location bit, but keeping the object in a person to see if by removing location, anything happens to the experiment and the strength of the communication. And interestingly, we had three boxes this time. So we had my dad's plaque with the roll of packing tape as the decoy.

And we had an object of your mum's, which was a dress that she'd worn. So we both had an object connecting us to people that we loved, that we've lost, and a decoy. So we ran the experiment three times.

But what we did was. So we got three exact same boxes. They're exactly the same size.

Weight's not an issue because the dress, a plaque, and a roll of Sellotape are different weights. But because we were unaware of the box's contents, we didn't move it. It was just in there. It sat there in front of us.

We couldn't have told the weight anyway, so we couldn't see it, we couldn't feel it for weight, so we didn't know what was in the box.

And the other person had moved them.

Yeah, so the other person moved them. And the other person also had the option to swap the objects between boxes.

So we couldn't recognize which box had which object because obviously we're moving them backwards and forwards and whatnot. And where we introduced the third box, it was a fresh box.

So it would have been quite obvious that that box was not quite as worn as the others who've been in and out of my car all day. So we had three, three experiments to run.

We done it at 30 seconds instead of 45 seconds because we recognize that time doesn't seem to be a factor in this.

And if we're going to get responses quick, they're more likely to relate to that question rather than waiting two minutes to see if something comes through, which, in terms of science.

I know we're not doing science, it's not controlled in a massive way, but it just means we can rule out any sort of vague word that comes through that wasn't meant for that question, but we kind of tie in. So that's what we did. We ran the same experiment with the boot.

Same questions.

Same questions, same questions. Although we added one question in at the end, which was.

It was, can you tell me about this object? Because we recognized that the questions before were all about the person and the place and we didn't really ask about. About the object.

So, you know, I don't know why, why we didn't. But we decided, you know, we'll add it in here on this one. So we had six questions to ask.

We did. So on the. The farm, we'll call it, because we stayed on a farm, there was no connection in terms of place. So that place line was missing.

We had two objects that resonated with both of us and a decoy. So we could now see if the place line being missing caused the sort of connection to be weaker. And hopefully we were able to prove that.

And we kind of did. We kind of did, yeah. So nothing massively came through that. No, like.

Like at the cemetery, nothing specifically came through that you could go, oh, actually, yeah. We couldn't tell either of us which was which box, really. No, it was a bit, bit. It was a bit scatty, bit scary, bit random. Not really, no.

Couldn't really relate to the words. I mean, only vaguely.

There was a couple of things that might have tallied up very, very vaguely, you know, such as when I was using Mum's dress and I got. The question was, can you tell me something that relates to me?

And the word Michael came through and that very, very loosely sort of connects to me because Michael was Mum's funeral director and he was a brilliant guy and my mum would have loved Michael and we said all the story throughout this whole process that my mom would have loved Michael.

Yeah.

And that's the only thing I could do, I could think of that really, that. That kind of connected, but not. Nothing strong enough.

Yeah, yeah. So we run the experiments and we, we.

It almost confirmed the location bit for us that you need the location even if you've got the object and the person. This is all blind tested as well. So we said, well, we are just reading words off a screen. It's not subjective, it's completely open.

There's no hiding from the word. So we said, why don't we take the objects out of the box? Let's look at our objects. Let's.

Yeah. And it is, it is important to know that we had discussions that day about emotion replacing the plait line.

Yes.

So it wasn't completely random. That decision is. We didn't get any hits and we weren't in the right place. So we were like, let's test it then.

Let's test it and open our emotion up by knowing what we're speaking to, knowing the object in front of us.

Yeah. And see if that makes a difference. And, boy, that made a difference.

Oh, yeah. Before we'd even began the. The next experiment with emotion involved, you got massive hits instantly.

So we. We changed it to three specific questions for this. One was.

One was, tell me about the object. Tell me about yourself and tell me about me.

Yeah.

Very, very personal, very specific emotional questions, really.

And literally before I'd even asked the first question, the initial B came out twice and the name Gregory came out. Now, to other people probably wouldn't mean much to Gregory. Might, but.

But the plaque, my dad was called Doug Douglas, but that was his second name, his first name. And on the plaque is Brian. That was his real name. So we had B come through. Then we had a second bee come through. My mum's name is Brenda.

And then after that, the name Gregory came through. And whilst not specifically my name, and I will fucking argue that till the.

Death, you are just Greg.

I'm just Greg. The name Gregory come through, which is essentially the name Greg. And we had discussions about this ourselves, saying, am I really a Gregory?

Did your dad want to call you Gregory?

Yeah.

Did he prefer it?

So I actually text my mum and said, random question, Mum, was I ever going to be called Gregory? She said, no, I haven't explored it further than that.

But yeah, I mean, you never know your dad. Your dad may never have told your mum, but he might have always thought it should be Gregory. But he's never said it to your mom.

Yeah, exactly. But the fact that Gregory came through when my name is Greg is quite prominent. Even more so with the two. The. The initial B coming through twice.

Essentially, you've got all your names in your family all of a sudden, all at once. Like your little family unit that you had with your mum, your dad and you was suddenly all named.

Yep. And I'm an only child, so there was no other it. There was the three of us.

Yeah, it was like as soon as, I mean, before we'd even started the experiment, we'd have the object and the person there for a long time before that emotion side because we were doing the experiment.

So as soon as we opened up the floodgates of that emotion which replaced the place sign, suddenly it's spouted all these words from your dad, hopefully, because he was already there and waiting and he just needed that connection to be strong enough. And as soon as it was B.B. gregory come through.

I mean, I, I got mine when, when I did the emotion line experiment with my mum again, I didn't get any massively strong hits. But with the question, tell me about this object. Now, I didn't use my mum's dress this time, I used my mum's wedding ring.

And on that question, tell me about this object, the word emerald came through and you could at a stretch relate it to jewelry and rings. But I felt like the words were very themed.

Yeah.

And not really specific.

But again, that leads us to an experiment we need to do even more, which is what if I'm not the chosen person so she can only throw themes at me and nothing direct because I've got a twin sister and I know that Emma would have needed my mom in life and did need mom in life more than I did. So in spirit, my mom is going to be with Emma because Emma would need her more in spirit than I'd need her.

And so I don't think my mom would have chosen me as the direct line if she could only have one. So I feel like, although she kind of resonates, she's not my direct line, I'm not her direct line person wise. So I'll only ever get themed.

But one other thing quickly to, to note on both of us is we both got the same answer on the same question. Again, what context that is, I don't know. But we both got the word close or close, whichever one when we asked tell me about this object.

And we're obviously both close to the objects that we're holding, but we both got the same word. And there was a lot of that repetitive pattern throughout our whole weekend of experiments.

We both got the words, I say words, we both got the number 91 through which obviously that's the year that your dad died. And yeah, he, you know when you asked your dad's plaque, tell me about me and 91 come through.

Yeah.

It could be saying like I left you in 91, do you know?

Yeah.

About you in that way. And we got it on something else as well without. I've not got it directly in front of me, but 91 came true again. One more talking about your dad.

And we. This is all learning for us. So we're, we're. We're on a bit of a journey and I think we're. It could well be that my dad's on a bit of a journey now.

Now we've opened this communication line and we realize that there can be some kind of communication. Like I say this weekend I've had more communication with my dad. I say my dad, I don't know. Obviously nobody knows who it is.

But I've had more communication this weekend than I've had in 34 years by asking specific questions that we needed to know. I had an object, the person and location, and then we removed the location. But I still had the person and object, me and the object, the plaque.

And the emotional line was open because we were looking at these objects. So it's. It's been a revelation.

And it, for me, it confirms more the telephone line theory, the fact that there is somebody on the end of the phone now, like when I'm trying to communicate and I pick up my line.

Yeah. And it's, it's a. It's a chunky one to digest.

Yeah.

But we think we are potentially on to understanding the why is behind the best way to investigate. Now this obviously doesn't stand for capturing an apparition on camera or a spirit box because we've not at that stage to look at that.

But this is just purely for direct communication. And obviously the bu. Cor. Words are a good way to hit emotion. And emotion is playing a huge part in it all. It's replacing lines.

And words are the best and easiest and quickest way to get something across when you're communicating. So a word bank is a really useful tool and the one we've developed.

I know this sounds very salesy of me, but the one we've developed has given us the best results we've ever had. And even when we were experimenting, it has really proven our theories. And I would highly recommend you get one.

Yeah.

And, and that's not just me saying that I am not. I'm. I'm obviously biased, but I'm not biased when I say it. But this whole basis of the theory is basically to put it in. In simple terms.

But recent spirits need three lines to connect direct communication with the living.

Yeah.

They need to pick up their end of the telephone and we need to pick up our end of the telephone. And to do that and lines, you need three conditions to be right person, object, place.

If you're not in the right place, emotion can substitute that line.

And when they don't long, when they no longer have an anchor to the living or you're not the person that they are choosing to communicate directly with, things become a little bit more residual, a little bit looser, a little bit more themed rather than specific. And the longer that goes on then the more residual it becomes until communication dissipates completely.

Yeah.

And, and that's it basically in a 20 second nutshell.

It's, it, it's quite complex really when you dig into all the little bits and pieces, but generally you're picking up the phone and you need three conditions to do so.

Yeah. And that is our theory condensed down from weeks and months of just testing things out, saying, what about this? What about this?

Oh, we've had that result there. What maybe that means that. Oh, what if that means that?

Or maybe location is important or maybe it's just a person or maybe need the object and that has given us that those three person, object and place pop.

Yeah.

It'S, it's been insane and, and just to go back to like the book or we've, we've had like weird residual responses, me and Ash, when we've been at Cannock Chase, we've been talking about our book and the word book came through of all words and then forest and then spooky. Just weird stuff.

And very strangely going on to specifics is when we were, I was having a conversation with my sister about someone, someone that we know. So obviously Craig owns Stock Museum and, and the house with gti.

We're just talking about that and we mentioned Craig's name and Craig came through on the boot core at that time.

Yes.

And we were like, oh my goodness, what are the chances? And it happens all the time.

The, the week before my mum died and I've got no problem coming out with know I have before but my mom drowned and there was a certain person involved and their name came through the week before on the buoy and the words were very much water pool. And we actually made a point of saying it's very water themed this week. These words are very water themed.

And then my mom drowned the next week and obviously the name that, that was thrown out at the same time that weekend was, was a person sort of semi involved in all of that and it was like everything just again, without context. It wasn't paranormal until we knew what, what had happened.

But these words coming through, whatever it is about the Buchor and that's the next thing is we need to try it with different spirit boxes and things like that and different words. Of course we do. But if it, if, if it doesn't, there's something about the Buchor that just nothing else has.

And we need to look at why that that is the case.

And it's like you say, we've had so many remarkable words come through that have been super relevant and maybe because we use it so often, like all the time we're using it, that we recognize that the words have got more meaning. Maybe, I don't know, maybe because we use it all the time, we're aware of what words have come up before.

So if we go back to Priest Cottage, for example, and we get the word apple come through, that really just reinforces a lot of the stuff that. What why is it's got no location based triggering. It's got, hasn't and doesn't use microphone.

It's all coded based on environmental factors and certain movement triggers. And it, it's irrelevant really what the trigger is the fact that a word's coming through exactly.

Like you mentioned right at the start, the word is what gives it context and I mean even context. It's not paranormal.

No, it's not. But I mean, I've even thought about, does the Buchord detect changes in our own like, you know, bio energy and.

Yeah, is, is that what it's detecting and picking up on it sort of tapping into our emotion and all of that and our personal motion line and you know, I don't know, I've no idea.

Is the sensitivity so much that it can detect that when Dan Sprague picks up the device, his son was there emotionally and it, you know, fluctuated and flung out his name. We just won't know.

Yeah, it's interesting. And just taking it back to another podcast that I'd listened to just in recent episodes about EVPs and, and such like, and spirit boxes.

There's a box called Frank's Box and that used a cheap electric condensing microphone.

Right.

This guy who developed it, he was allegedly told by aliens and entities to put this particular type of microphone in.

Didn't know why, but they theorized on this podcast, the people that do helia and develop the Estes method, they were saying that some of the cheap electronics and like the cheaper side of it allows the spirits to manipulate stuff easier. So like the word the Buchor itself, it doesn't cost.

It's not cheap, by the way.

It's not cheap, but it's not like you're not talking hundreds of pounds.

No.

You're not relatively inexpensive piece of equipment.

Yeah, it is, really. And it's not unobtainable to the everyday person.

No, exactly. You're not talking. You don't have to be a rich person to invest in the equipment to get some what appears to be incredible responses.

But you have to remember what's paranormal to me may not be paranormal to you. And that's why we've One of our sort of like taglines for beyond our ordinary is. It's your investigation, it's your story.

Because the word Gregory B and B coming through to Margaret down the road, who's got one, potentially means absolutely bugger all.

Yeah.

For me, at that moment, that time, that location with that object and those words meant everything to me.

Exactly. And even now, even this telephone line theory, to someone listening to this, they might be thinking, oh, what a load of rubbish, it's coincidence.

But to us, this is very interesting stuff. Potentially explains a lot of the whys around paranormal or the house. Never mind the cues, the what's and the whys. This is covering the how.

Yeah, but.

And this isn't us just coming up with it just before the podcast and talking about it. This is us. We've been thinking about this over the last year. We've.

Yeah, we've been putting in place and recognizing patterns of information that's come through when we've been out on location, multiple locations, different histories, different people, different objects. It's. This is a culmination and an ongoing piece of work for us to come up with it. And we've come up with this theory which makes sense.

You pick up the phone line, the spirit wants to pick up the phone line. If you pick it up with the right conditions and at the right time, boom.

And we've proven it so far.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. And I mean, if anyone's listening. Yeah, go on, what were you gonna say?

No, you carry on.

I'm just gonna.

I was just gonna say if anyone's listening before Saturday, before we do Spook and Spirit fest on the 29th, we would love to, if you're coming along, come and chat to us about it. And we'd love to know what you think about this theory before then.

If there's any questions that you've got or anything you want to do, and if you want to bring an object along with you, feel free. We're going to have Boxes we're going to have paperwork. Take paperwork away with you. Use a word box, use our word box.

Document your own findings under the same experiment. Let us know, come and chat to us. And if you've listening after Spook and Spirit Fest, I hope you bought a buco.

I hope you bought a book or and I hope you took away a pack to, to do your own experiments under the same conditions with or I hope you did it with us there and I would love to know your thoughts on all of this. Would you want to hear more? Do you want, do you want us to delve into this more? Are the different ways you want us to look at things?

Does it hold up for you?

Like let us know your thoughts on, on this and you know, and, and message pursuit of the paranormal or message beyond our ordinary on socials as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

This is an opportunity for us to get people to try the experiment even if you don't use it and I don't know why you wouldn't use it with our equipment but if you want to use it with your own word banks, if there are any. But joking aside, we can give you.

I can download the template from the website, we can, we can sort something out anyway but if you come and see us on Saturday at Priest Cottage, take a couple of sheets of paper, we'll print out a load, take some, try it, try it on different locations, try it at your own house, try it with your friends, photocopy it, get it out to as many people as you want. We can email it to you, we can all. What. I'll tell you what we can do. I'll tell you what we can do. We can put it on beyond our order me shop.

So our website, we can put it as a free digital download as well. So you can just go on there and get it for free and you'll get the PDF version. We'll sort that out this week as well. Before Saturday.

Yeah, definitely. I don't know how we're going to condense all of that into like 10, 15 minutes. So we're going to have to really think about.

Because we're doing a workshop. So we're going to be doing.

I don't know if you, if you know, if you've obviously not been yet, we're doing a workshop and we are going to do a very brief 10 minute cover of this phone line theory and then we're going to do an experiment there and then on Saturday we're going to replicate what we've done on Saturday and we are going to see what we find, see if we can repeat what we've already had. You know, do it blindfolded, do it not blindfolded and just see if. If that emotion line plays into it again and it's interesting.

So yeah, it's going to be a good day I think for boo.

Yeah, I believe it is. I believe it is. And we will have a boo call for sale, probably only one and we'll be taking back orders if people are interested in them.

But come along and have a look at the device. They're a great piece of kit. I know we're biased certainly to a certain level, but we believe in it. We believe in the device and people.

That have used our device have. Have gotten excellent results as well.

Yeah, there are a few of these out in the wild as well. So it'd be interesting to speak to people. There's one of them in America for example.

So we are only going to be able to gather more data to prove this theory the more people we get to do it.

So at the very least come and take a sheet of paper that we've SARAH has developed to allow us to record questions, record the answers and certain key information on there. Not loads, but enough that we can get the information we need. And all you're doing is writing down on the sheet the words that come out.

We're not asking you to answer the question, just record the answer and highlight.

The ones that you feel were meaningful to you.

Yep, yep. And that way we can try and work out which one is the most important person object place. Because we can only do so many experiments between us.

Exactly.

And we need the wider audience to help us. So come and see us Saturday. Spooky Priest Cottage. Army Road leads. We're there all day. We got T shirts, we got trip wires and a boot core.

So come and say hello.

Absolutely, Absolutely, absolutely. I do like that. But yeah, thanks for getting to the very end of this. It must be about an hour and a half long.

At least.

At least.

So yeah, thanks all and let us know your thoughts. Welcome.

Any feedback, let us know if you want a boo. Take over part three.

Yes. It'll be good to like months down the line. So in the new year sort of recap any sort of sheets that have come back to us.

Anybody that's contacting us what happened as spooks and spirits fest. I think it'd be really cool.

Yeah, I did. And if all of this theory comes to nothing, the journey getting there was interesting.

Oh, we've enjoyed it and when people say to us, what do you do in spare time? Well, we're working on this theory and talking for hours. And if we're not doing that, we're in a church in a lost village somewhere in Oxfordshire.

Oh, don't.

Because we'll be here for another hour and a half talking about our whole weekend and our abandoned church experience in this abandoned village where the church was open at night. Greg, maybe we should just start our own podcast. Sorry, Ash.

Maybe we should. Maybe we should start one Pursuit, the Paranormal Podcast Network.

Yeah, there you go.

That'll be another one. Yeah, the list.

Oh, the adventures of Sarah and Greg. Yeah, the stuff we get up to. Yeah.

Anyway, right, we're going. It's half past eleven at night. I still need to edit this and we want to get it out now, so I'll speak to you in a bit.

See you later, guys. Thanks for listening. Bye.