In this episode of the Daily Bible Podcast, the hosts delve into the divisive topic of flat earth theory, emphasizing the importance of understanding biblical poetic language. They explore how some people use scripture to justify flat earth claims and discuss the implications of taking poetic passages literally. The episode also includes a discussion on 1 Samuel 13-14, highlighting Jonathan's bravery in battle and King Saul's rash vow. The hosts underscore the significance of understanding biblical context to avoid misinterpretations.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:22 The Flat Earth Debate

02:03 Biblical Language and Interpretation

02:49 Scientific Evidence Against Flat Earth

03:39 Personal Reflections and Advice

06:00 Upcoming Church Events

08:10 Daily Bible Reading: 1 Samuel 13-14

14:16 Closing Remarks and Prayer

Find out more about Compass Bible Church.

Learn more about our Bible Reading Plan.

Questions or Comments? Email us podcast@compassntx.org

Hey everybody.

2

Welcome back to another edition

of the Daily Bible Podcast.

3

What's up?

4

We are back to talk about something

that is man it's interesting.

5

It's out there and it was a niche

thing for a while, at least.

6

It's been around

apparently for a long time.

7

It has been, yeah.

8

Just recently started popping back

up and a niche thing, but it's a

9

niche thing that can become divisive.

10

It be, it can become something

that is, is problematic.

11

So it's important for us to address, we

wanna address it today with you guys,

12

and that is not the style of music that

we play or anything else like that,

13

but that is the shape of the earth.

14

It's clearly a cube.

15

Everybody knows that it's clearly a cube.

16

Yep.

17

The four, I don't know who

would say anything else.

18

The four corners of inside of the cube.

19

Four corners.

20

Rod: Exactly.

21

Thank you.

22

PJ: Yeah.

23

Rod: Finally we're talking about something

that I've been saying for my whole life.

24

PJ: Yeah.

25

It's a cube.

26

Yeah.

27

Okay.

28

No, but you may know or know

someone who per buys into or

29

even promotes the concept of.

30

The earth being flat And it

what originally it started

31

out as flat earthers.

32

It was a pejorative term

that emerged recently.

33

People going, oh they're flat earthers

implying that these people are un

34

unintelligent or just con conspiracy

theorist and everything else.

35

And we don't want to just write that off

and say hey, let's just, create the straw

36

man and say, Hey they're just they're

just conspiracy theorists and they don't.

37

Think about things correctly, but

a lot of times and the reason we're

38

talking about this on the podcast

is they'll appeal to the Bible.

39

They'll say things like the four

corners of the Earth, the Bible talks

40

about that the angels are being held

and restraining the winds at the

41

four corners of the earth, or it'll

talk about the ends of the earth.

42

And if you've got a sphere, pastor,

I, correct me if I'm wrong, but

43

spheres don't have corners or ends.

44

That's 'cause it's a cube,

but yes, that's correct.

45

Right?

46

What do we do with that?

47

And this is gained some steam

it's even impacted us a little bit

48

within our Compass Bible Church

family broader on a broader scale.

49

We had a situation up at one of our

other churches where this became

50

a point of division in the church.

51

And this was really problematic

because this person was promoting

52

this and teaching this to the

extent that it was against.

53

Church leadership and it, it really grew

beyond just this issue, but this was

54

one of the main issues at stake here.

55

So what do we do with that?

56

What do we do with this language?

57

I think the first thing that we

have to understand is the Bible uses

58

different genres of language throughout.

59

Its writing.

60

It talks about not only the

four corners of the earth, but

61

Jeremiah talks about the circle.

62

Of the earth, right?

63

And so there it's okay, so

are we dealing with a circle?

64

Are we dealing with a square?

65

How do we deal with this?

66

It also talks about the rising in the

setting of the sun which we know that

67

the sun doesn't technically rise,

that we are orbiting around the sun.

68

We're in a heliocentric solar system here.

69

And so it's not that the sun is

literally rising, but the Bible

70

talks about the rising of the

sun all the way to its setting.

71

I'm thinking of Psalm 19.

72

It talks about stretching the

heavens out like a garment.

73

And we're not sitting here going,

oh, the heavens must be fabric

74

and they must be made out of.

75

Some cloth that's up in the sky.

76

We know, okay, this is poetic language and

that's what he's doing when he talks about

77

the four corners of the ends of the earth.

78

To embrace flat earth would

require us to to look at pretty

79

much everything out there.

80

All of the evidence, all of the images

that we have from spacing, including

81

things that are calculations that date

all the way back to the middle ages.

82

Pythagoras himself was even

calculating that the planets

83

were themselves spherical.

84

And so this is not

something that, that's new.

85

It's not something that's.

86

Only since we got into space

and took photos of the earth or

87

purportedly, as they would argue.

88

Th this is something that people have

embraced from much later times from

89

the middle Ages and even prior to that.

90

As, as well as just the idea that you

look at in modern technology and how we're

91

able to observe a lunar eclipse or we're

able to observe the phases of the moon.

92

Those really only make sense with us.

93

Spherical planet both

with Earth and the moon.

94

So there's science and then there's also

evidence in scripture for us to look

95

at this and say, you know what, it's

pressing it too far to look at the Bible

96

and say, the Bible teaches flat Earth pr.

97

I'd love to get some of

your thoughts on that.

98

Rod: Yeah I've heard of a few

people that support this ideology,

99

and part of it is through the.

100

The text of scripture that are poetic.

101

And I think that's what

really comes down to it.

102

I've tried to look at a handful

of the go-to texts that seem to

103

be used to support the flat earth

movement in the Christian circles.

104

And it's hard to look at that

and say yeah, I, that's an

105

open and shut case for sure.

106

And I think we were just talking

about this before we started

107

recording here, is that if the

Bible taught that we'd believe that.

108

I believe that and I have no problem

saying God can tell us up is down and

109

down His right left is, around the corner.

110

If that's what God wanted to do, and we

would be inclined to say, okay, if that's

111

what the Bible teaches, and so be it.

112

So it was not a matter of saying,

w we're just too well-informed.

113

We're just too scientific.

114

We're too western minded to believe.

115

We, the Bible's teaching.

116

The reality is.

117

Is that the Bible's just

not teaching it, right?

118

It's poetic language.

119

And to take any poetic language and

force upon it, a literal framework is

120

so dangerous, and often you're missing

the entire point of the text itself.

121

So while I do believe that there

are sincere brothers and sisters who

122

believe in this and have conventions

and have all sort, the publishing

123

materials and doing videos and things

like that, and I hear the sincerity.

124

I've listened to one

of their videos and I.

125

Man, the guy sounds passionate

and he sounds like he loves the

126

Lord and has a genuine desire

to know the truth of the Lord.

127

The reality is, I just think that they're

sadly not getting what this text is trying

128

to say, which is why it's so important

to read your Bible because you'll see

129

from a lot of it reading your Bible.

130

Is learning how to read within

the context and within the genre

131

that the scripture teaches.

132

And if you're willing to do that,

if you're able to do that, you'll

133

avoid a lot of the errors that

could come with something like

134

PJ: this.

135

Yeah.

136

Th this would fall into when Paul's

warning Timothy to abstain from

137

foolish myths and genealogies that

can cause quarrels and fights.

138

I, I, I.

139

Would say that something like this would

fall into that realm of things for us.

140

We want to be we don't wanna bury

our heads in the sands as Christians.

141

We wanna be open to the reality,

especially, post covid and things

142

with everything that went on there.

143

Yeah, makes sense.

144

Love, distrust.

145

Yeah.

146

And so we're willing to.

147

To hear arguments out.

148

But we also need to, at the

end of the day, say, okay, Lord

149

what do you want from us now?

150

And certainly it's not to be distracted

with matters like this, but to focus on

151

the matters that he's calling us to and

beyond that I do think the testimony

152

both scientifically and biblically is

the fact that we should trust in the

153

earth that we know to be true on the

globes that we have and everything else.

154

There's a book, if you're

interested in taking a deep dive

155

on this there's a book that might

interest you called Falling Flat.

156

A refutation of flat

earth claims falling flat.

157

A refutation of flat earth

claims by Danny Faulkner.

158

Now just know this is this is meaty.

159

You're gonna get into the

weeds on this one big time.

160

If you're interested in learning

more about that, Danny Faulkner's

161

book would be super helpful for you.

162

Rod: And maybe you wanna

start reading that tonight at.

163

Campus camp.

164

Out campus.

165

Camp out.

166

I was, 'cause I was gonna call it

something else and then I realized

167

that's not the name anymore.

168

Yeah.

169

'cause someone else has it in

their calendar as the wrong thing.

170

And I'm gonna correct

'em about this later.

171

But it's tonight.

172

Maybe they wanna read it tonight on

their Kindle as they sit in their

173

lawn chair in front of their tent.

174

Yes.

175

Are you excited

176

PJ: about this or what?

177

I'm I am excited.

178

I am ecstatic.

179

I have a tent ecstatic that

has not been opened yet.

180

That will be opened and will be set up.

181

This is at some point.

182

Yep.

183

That's great.

184

Yeah.

185

So is it a two story tent,

central AC and heating it?

186

Yeah, it has a big screen TV in it.

187

Wifi.

188

Yep.

189

Bluetooth.

190

Yep.

191

All sounds great things.

192

No, it's gonna be awesome.

193

Mark is gonna be teaching

us all as we're out there.

194

He is got a devotion to bring to us there.

195

And there's gonna be a lot of games.

196

I gotta sign a family color for this.

197

I apparently wore light orange.

198

Light orange, so Annie

was not dark orange.

199

Yeah.

200

Light Ali sent us our family color.

201

She was like, so feel free

to wear, light orange.

202

I'm like I don't, I have nothing.

203

I have nothing light orange.

204

Even if I went to the Goodwill,

like you have to do with family,

205

with youth camps and things like

that to give your team color.

206

I don't think I would find light orange.

207

I don't think so either.

208

Peach, she told me my

team color was black.

209

Rod: Okay.

210

How did you black swing that?

211

She said dark black.

212

Yeah.

213

Something about my soul.

214

Okay.

215

And appropriate color.

216

I forget what she said.

217

PJ: Yeah.

218

Oh no.

219

Wait.

220

It says red here.

221

Nevermind.

222

Even red.

223

Red is light.

224

Light orange.

225

I don't think I have red though.

226

Honestly, your color is chartreuse.

227

God, we know.

228

Or to begin with that one mauve.

229

Yeah.

230

Anyways, it should be an awesome time.

231

Can't wait for it.

232

It's it's gonna be a good

time with our church family.

233

And then everybody will be bright out

and bushy tailed on Sunday morning,

234

the day after for set up, right?

235

Yep.

236

That's the plan

237

Rod: every, we're gonna,

we're gonna bring the coffee

238

PJ: guys.

239

Don't worry.

240

That's the plan in the prayer.

241

We're gonna

242

Rod: have

243

PJ: so much coffee flowing.

244

It'll be coming outta your eyes.

245

It will be yes.

246

Yeah.

247

Hey, let's jump into our

daily Bible reading for today.

248

We are in First Samuel, just

two chapters today, 13 and 14.

249

First Samuel 13 and 14.

250

We are continuing Saul's

reign as King over Israel.

251

And so 13 one, it says Saul lived for one

year, then became King, and one he had

252

reigned over for Israel for two years.

253

Then it goes on.

254

Now, that may look odd to you and

if it does, welcome to the club.

255

There's a lot of people who believe

that this was perhaps a situation where

256

the number actually dropped out here.

257

That it used to say something else and

that then it was perhaps his age when he

258

came to the throne or how long he reigned.

259

But when you read this and

you go, th this doesn't.

260

Seemed to make a lot of sense.

261

That's why the second half, I think

is setting up the timeframe for

262

the conflict with the Philistines.

263

I think that makes sense to me.

264

But when it says Saul lived for one year

and then he became King, I, it, there does

265

seem to be a textual variant that, that

we don't have in the Masori text anymore,

266

that would've made that more clear.

267

And it probably was his age.

268

He lived for so many years and then became

King to give us an understanding of how

269

old he was when he came to the throne.

270

Your thoughts on that?

271

Po

272

Rod: Yeah, I agree with that.

273

It seems like it's lost to history.

274

We don't know exactly what it said

275

say that he reigned for 40 years.

276

So we at least know that the

second part he reigned for 40

277

years is more than likely the case.

278

But what it said before that.

279

It's difficult.

280

Only God

281

PJ: knows.

282

Yeah.

283

Difficult to ascertain and that's okay.

284

It's this is an example of a situation

where textual criticism showed us, shows

285

us the veracity of the text that we have,

because we can look at the text and figure

286

out, okay, something dropped off here.

287

Now does this change anything?

288

Inherently about your convictions

or beliefs in the inher seeing

289

the authority of scripture?

290

No.

291

Does it change anything about doctrine

or who God is or anything else?

292

No.

293

Is there a reasonable explanation

for what happened here?

294

Yes, there is.

295

And so this shouldn't undermine your faith

in scripture, but what happens in one

296

Samuel chapter 13 is that there is an.

297

Early victory from Jonathan over the

Philistines, which sets up a dire

298

situation for the Israelites because the

Philistines come out in retaliation and

299

there's a massive force that emerges here.

300

And Saul's supposed to, at this point,

wait for Samuel before acting on anything.

301

But Samuel delays, he doesn't show up yet.

302

And so Saul decides that he's

gonna offer sacrifices to the Lord.

303

Unlawfully because only the priest was

meant to offer sacrifices, not the king.

304

And so Saul does this against the

law, and Samuel shows up right after

305

he finishes here, and un understands

and knows because of God's revelation

306

to Samuel what had taken place here.

307

And so Samuel announces to Saul at

this point that his dynasty is done.

308

That there's not gonna

be a dynasty anymore.

309

That Saul is going to be the last one

of his line, that God is gonna choose

310

another man, a man after his own heart.

311

That's the famous line there.

312

And and so Saul is gonna be rejected.

313

His line is gonna be rejected here.

314

And then the chapter ends bleakly with

Israel mustering what little weaponry

315

they had to go to battle against

the strong imposing Philistine army.

316

Chapter 14.

317

Then we've got Jonathan

and his armor bearer.

318

And we don't, I don't believe

get the name of the armor bearer

319

in here, unless I missed it.

320

But this guy is, this guy's impressive.

321

In and of his own read.

322

Jonathan's the hero clearly, but

this armor bear, he's a brave guy.

323

And I was reading for actually

tomorrow's reading just about the

324

significance of the armor bear.

325

The armor bear was somebody

that the man who was.

326

Being served really trusted and loved.

327

This is not just a random guy.

328

This is somebody that, that, the

armor bear was somebody that the guy

329

who he was serving said, I trust you.

330

I love you.

331

Let's go to battle together.

332

And so that's what's going on here.

333

Jonathan and his armor bear, they

go up and they launch this attack

334

on this Philistine Garrison, which

is an uphill attack at, there's a

335

lot stacked against Jonathan here.

336

And yet Jonathan wins the battle.

337

Saul makes a rash vow saying nobody

should eat until the battle is done.

338

Jonathan eats.

339

It's discovered.

340

And Jonathan should die

according to the vow.

341

But this time the people of

Israel, they step up and say, Hey

342

Saul, you're not gonna do this.

343

And they rescue Jonathan

from Saul fulfilling his vow.

344

Which is interesting because that's not

one of the means or methods that are

345

allowable for breaking a vow in scripture.

346

Yeah, I think.

347

Rod: The only reason God tolerates it

is because the vow was a sinful vow.

348

A sinful vow that should have

been broken in the first place.

349

'cause there is provision in

scripture, four vows that were done.

350

I don't know, I don't wanna say

impetuously, but vows that were not good.

351

You should break the vow.

352

You should pay the fine for breaking

your vow because even though the

353

vow, you said Christ, I don't

even know why he would say this.

354

I think it was right

for them to defend him.

355

I don't think it would've been right.

356

I think it would've been held

accountable for Saul to not only.

357

To fulfill the vow, but it would've

been a sinful fulfilling of the vow.

358

PJ: Yeah.

359

Yeah.

360

What about what goes on here

with Jonathan in the Philistine

361

garrison, 20 men at least, that

he takes out here in half an acre.

362

Should we see something supernatural?

363

There is this just Jonathan's

military prowess that enables

364

him to do 20 guys against one.

365

And you think about the fact that at

least somebody up there had a spear

366

or perhaps a bow, that they could have

dispatched Jonathan from a distance.

367

This is.

368

This is unique.

369

What happens there?

370

Rod: Yeah, I'd have to see

that part of it at least was.

371

The Lord doing something because

verse 15 says, there was a panic in

372

the camp, in the field, and among the

people, the garrison there, there was

373

a great panic and then the earthquake.

374

So God is intervening, but I

don't know that there's anything

375

inherently special that, Jonathan's

not a ninja, I don't think.

376

I think God empowered him just to do

the job, and God has supported that by

377

causing them to freak out and start.

378

I don't know, running amuck

and maybe killing each other as

379

on as well, or on top of that.

380

PJ: Yeah.

381

Yeah.

382

Speaking of ninjas, I just

learned this recently.

383

Did you know in Japan there's something

called ninja floors or anti ninja

384

floors, and they're anti ninja floors.

385

They're intentionally made to be

squeaky interesting and creaky, so

386

that a ninja can't sneak up on you.

387

Wow.

388

So I've installed those in my house.

389

I could see that.

390

Yeah.

391

I'll look forward to sneaking up on you.

392

Good.

393

Yeah.

394

Yeah.

395

Yeah.

396

You can Google it.

397

It's true.

398

They do.

399

They have anti ninja floors

in Japan, which is crazy.

400

That is crazy.

401

I also appreciated somebody that

said, what if the Japanese ninjas

402

were just the worst of the bunch?

403

And that's why we only know

about ninjas from Japan.

404

Rod: Yeah.

405

I believe that one actually, of

all the things that you said, this

406

episode, that's the thing that I

find to be most credible because

407

PJ: we wouldn't know if the

ninjas were really good ninjas.

408

America could have the best ninjas.

409

Yeah, around the German ninjas.

410

Have you heard of those guys?

411

Yeah.

412

There's a reason why.

413

No, that's, yeah, exactly.

414

Exactly.

415

They're overweight ninjas and

later Hoen creeping around.

416

Anyways, that has nothing to do

with anything, but let's let's

417

wrap this episode with some

prayer and then we will be done.

418

Lord, we are thankful for your word.

419

That does give us

understanding and knowledge.

420

And while it doesn't give us

all of the facts and all of the

421

scientific points that we could wish

that it would, sometimes it does

422

give us a general understanding.

423

It gives us guidance.

424

And certainly we do understand

that your word speaks differently

425

in different ways, in different

genres and different methodologies.

426

And poetic is the poetry is

definitely one of the main.

427

Ways that you reveal yourself

to us and way the way that

428

you describe things to us.

429

And so we wanna be humble as we come

to your word, as we come to creation.

430

And yet we also don't wanna be

people that are overly skeptical

431

just for the sake of being skeptical.

432

So keep us from cynicism.

433

Keep us from pride.

434

Lord, keep us from being divisive

in any way, shape or form.

435

God guard us from the endless

myths and genealogies that

436

Paul talks about with Timothy.

437

And help us to seek first and foremost

the glory of God and the glory of Christ

438

through fulfilling the mission that

you've given us to fulfill as a church.

439

So we ask this and pray

this in Jesus' name, amen.

440

Amen.

441

Keep you in your Bibles.

442

Tune in again tomorrow for another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

443

Bye folks.

444

Bye.

445

Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

446

This is a ministry of Compass

Bible Church in north Texas.

447

You can find out more information

about ourChurch@compassntx.org.

448

We would love for you to leave a

review to rate to share this podcast

449

on whatever platform you happen to

be listening on, and we will catch

450

you against tomorrow for another

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.