Shownotes
This week for some Common Sense Ohio...
1. The Indictment of Donald Trump
2. Education and School Funding
3. Building a New FBI Headquarters
4. Proposed Amendment on Abortion and Reproductive Rights
5. Real Estate and Disasters
6. Ohio Budget Bills
7. JD Vance and the Trump Endorsement
8. Proposed Amendments in Ohio on Voting Requirements
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Transcripts
Friday, June 16. Common Sense, Ohio. Steve is not with us, but you got two, two legs of the three legged table. Brett Johnson's in here, Norm Murdoch sitting on the other side of the table. And Jeez, lots of stuff going on.
Norm Murdock [:A lot, a lot of stuff. Can, can, if you don't mind, can we talk a little bit about the amendment proposal that there's two amendments that are out there that are coming one in August on a special election, and then the next one, basically it's a one two punch. The next one amendment is going to be up for the voters to decide in November. The first one in August, and we've talked a lot about this on the show, is the constitutional amendment to raise the bar to 60% of the electorate needs to approve any changes to the Ohio Constitution that's going to be in August for people to vote yes or no. So it's going to raise it from 50% plus one to 60% plus. You have to have at least one vote on this in all 88 counties. They threw in a couple of other little things and I guess the idea is to make sure that the citizens, so somebody can't come in and supposedly just spend a lot of money and buy a constitutional amendment during a special election. The idea of raising it to 60% is to make sure that the public is very, very informed about the proposed amendment. And it is interesting to note that in the federal system, it takes 60% of the states to approve a change to the US. Constitution. So I think Secretary of State LaRose and the proponents of the August special election, the amendment on the ballot, I believe that they maybe modeled it in some respects after that precedent, at least.
Brett Johnson [:The numbers, at least the numbers, I can see the explanation of why 60 and not 55, 65. Right, yeah, I see that trail, at least.
Norm Murdock [:And I guess the idea would be that then you have not quite two thirds, but you've got a bigger proportion of the population saying, okay, we understand the issue, we're voting in favor of it, and an overwhelming majority says yes, we want this either deleted or added to the Constitution.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:So that's coming in August. And as we've discussed, Bret, mainly that has been proposed and that is on the ballot in order to try to defeat what is coming in November. Correct. Which is an amendment by pro abortion interests, in particular the ACLU, which is financing and actually wrote the issue. The amendment that people are going to vote on, the ACLU is deeply involved in this process. And what that is going to do, and I have been using a website which I'll give, and people can check this out and decide on their own, is a group that's against the abortion amendment called protectwomen Ohio.com. And if you go to that website, it will give you a list of what they contend, and I believe they're correct. So I'm standing with them. What they contend are the dangers of the pro abortion amendment. And this sounds odd, I wish it was just about abortion, but when they go through the language of the amendment, it is very clear because they don't use the word woman, they use the word individual person. They use language about having to do with reproductive issues, which covers gender changing because nothing touches on reproduction more than changing your ability to produce an egg or produce sperm. So gender identification then gets brought in visa vis this amendment. And also there is parental secrecy provisions having to do with children that are above age twelve, I think it is, or 13, but it's twelve or 13 that by virtue of other decisions around the country, those children above that age will be able school districts, for example, or counselors, will be able to legally hide from the parents that their children are seeking gender reassignment counseling or hormone blockers. And then finally and I'll let you talk, I apologize. No, I'm kind of hogging.
Brett Johnson [:No, I love setting the groundwork of what this is because I had read that. Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And a lot of this was a surprise to me because I thought it was just straight up abortion.
Brett Johnson [:That's what it's been talked about.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. And I think that according to Protect Women Ohio, according to them, when they talk to women who are pro choice and they find out about these other things, many are against this amendment because it covers other subject matter. So finally, the other thing is in the language they talk about, no burden shall be placed upon a person seeking reproductive surgery or reproductive decisions. And that language mirrors a whole bunch of cases again from around the country, that when you say in a law that there shall be no burden, that means taxpayer funding. That also means compelling insurance companies who now, some insurance, there's obviously religious organization based insurance, some insurance, some insurers will not cover abortion because of religious beliefs or ethical beliefs. And this law, because it says no burden by virtue of other decisions by other courts, will probably end up meaning that taxpayers will have to pay for gender changing surgeries for abortions. For all of these other issues, including children who are not yet 18, that are older than twelve years and seek behind their parents back, seek to have either an abortion or some sort of gender changing or gender identification, medical assistance. So I just want to lay that out so that people know what's coming right now in Florida, identical language is on the Florida ballot for Florida voters. Again, the ACLU, but the Ace, the ACLU draft resolution, that is before the proposition, that is before the Florida voters has left in the parental notification law in Florida, the Ohio one doesn't have that. That's the only difference between the two ballot measures. So in Ohio, we will have a much more aggressive if it passes in November. And that's why they want to raise the bar to 60%. Sure.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I've been on record with the podcast. I still don't agree with this whole notion of moving it to 60%. And a lot of it, as you just mentioned, it's supposed to stop, or at least I'll just say stop. Special money is coming in to influence us about amendments.
Norm Murdock [:Make it harder. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That's what we're seeing coming in to influence us to pass 60 40.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:So it's ironic.
Norm Murdock [:It is ironic.
Brett Johnson [:It's totally ironic, right. I personally don't think it's justified as of yet. And going to your point of what this? I'm not real happy with Laura's because he came out boldfaced at the very beginning saying this is not about abortion, and now he says it's about abortion. Boldfaced lied about it, which I think is horseshit. It's like, if it is, it is. You don't have to dance around it. And now all of a sudden that all the wagons are in line. Now you say it's about abortion. Well, that's right. Now, I don't like that about that. I mean, I like the guy just like tell the truth. Just tell the truth. Because it was that factual. But this is really enlightening about what? That amendment for a November election. I wonder, all the nuances you're talking about, I wonder if it's just going to be too convoluted that it won't pass just because it's too much, it's too loaded.
Norm Murdock [:It's too loaded, it goes too far.
Brett Johnson [:Because I would think pro choice people may not even agree with the gender stuff.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:They're going to say it's going to go too far, as most amendments are. Don't pass the first time, the gambling, everything that we do with amendments don't seem to pass the first time because they're too convoluted, too confusing. And people just go, no, I'm not going to because that piece is in it.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Water it down, take that amount, then I'll vote for this. The gender stuff is a totally different matter.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Honestly, the idea that you can treat and counsel and medically serve minors behind the backs of their parents, I'm sure that's objectionable to many pro choice advocates.
Brett Johnson [:Well, the part that you said, too, that there will be no, basically we're going to pay for this because no financial burden.
Norm Murdock [:No burden.
Brett Johnson [:So you know what's going to happen then? Insurance companies are going to dump a bunch of money into this saying, don't pass us because we're going to be burdened or it's going to ruin not ruin, but possibly make a bad situation of insurance companies here in Ohio. Well, they're going to drop clients, they're.
Norm Murdock [:Going to drop people, or they're going.
Brett Johnson [:To have to not work in Ohio.
Norm Murdock [:Or they're going to have to raise our premium or that too, which almost certainly will happen.
Brett Johnson [:This happens. This happens.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. The insurance companies aren't going to take the hit to their bottom line. They are going to pass along the cost of this to the taxpayers.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:And for those people who are uninsured or underinsured, if the law says there's no burden upon them, then the taxpayers will have to pay. And so it's going to come out of the state budget either way. We as taxpayers were ratepayers for our insurance. The other citizens of Ohio that disagree morally or ethically or are not pro choice are going to end up paying for abortions and gender reassignment services of all kinds.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know. The mindset of a lot of pro abortion people if they're willing to say the state should pay for that. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's the right to a.
Norm Murdock [:Choice is one thing, who pays for it is another.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. And state advocated that's a slippery slope, too, in regards to okay, yeah, you can because you're a person, but I don't necessarily want to have my money paying supporting you aborting right.
Norm Murdock [:It's kind of like a lot of thought process.
Brett Johnson [:There's a lot of things that people need to be thinking about.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's a little bit like cosmetic surgery arguments involving things like breast augmentation. Right. That is elective surgery. That is something that you do. Please, I don't mean this word like if somebody had a mastectomy because of a medical thing, then you're restoring them back to their appearance. That should be covered. Sure, right. But if somebody wants to augment for vanity reasons, I don't see the insurance companies or the taxpayers having to pick up that bill. I mean, that's kind of like that's not medically necessary. And you're not restoring tissue for somebody who had cancer or something along those lines.
Brett Johnson [:That leads to a mental well being, possibly.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. To me, it's like sewing a finger back on if you chainsaw off part of your hand. Well, they're putting something back that was removed, and it was removed for a medically urgent reason. And yes, that should be covered.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. No, I agree.
Norm Murdock [: up. This is an off year. It's: Brett Johnson [:But this measure may change that object.
Norm Murdock [:It may change because.
Brett Johnson [:How many things affect us as directly as pro life, that's a heated debate no matter what.
Norm Murdock [:If I can, I encourage people to go to this website, form their own conclusion. Correct. Educate yourself. It's protectwomen Ohio.com. The person running it is Amy Natosi. And Ms. Natosi, there's a downloadable brochure where you can read their interpretation of the ballot initiative on abortion. And her advice, which I think is advice to everybody, we should all register to vote, and we should then follow through and actually vote either on the day or get a ballot ahead of time or do an early voting opportunity with some of the boards of elections. So regardless of how you feel about this issue, I hope people go out and express their view one way or the other.
Brett Johnson [:Well, as I've always said, too, if you don't vote, you don't get a chance to bitch and moan about it.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:You don't have to say afterwards.
Norm Murdock [:You don't really have standing. You don't what you're saying.
Brett Johnson [:You don't. You just don't because you didn't participate. Then you can't complain about the end result. Right. But that one vote that does make a difference, but it's that you don't go out and do your civic duty. You don't have a leg to stand on.
Norm Murdock [:We don't want to hear your whining.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:Either. Participate.
Brett Johnson [:And that's your right to not participate if you so choose to, but don't complain about the result.
Norm Murdock [:A vote a decision not to vote is, in a way, a vote.
Brett Johnson [:Sure it is.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Because you can still go to the ballot box and not hit any button but one.
Norm Murdock [:Just like the old saying is, silence can be a lie. So when somebody says, does anybody know? Right. Does anybody know who threw the spitball on the blackboard here? Right. And the teacher asks the 31 kids in the class and nobody says anything, they all lied. Yeah. If they knew and didn't say. Constructive lie. You're constructively. Deciding not to vote is a vote.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I wanted to bring something. Insurance company, too. I thought, this doesn't affect Ohio directly. But I think it's really an interesting trend, maybe is that beginning, I think in May, California homeowners will no longer be serviced by allstate or state farm.
Norm Murdock [:Wow.
Brett Johnson [:New homeowners. They'll keep their old policies of those that have it because of what's going on with weather as well as other pieces.
Norm Murdock [:Well, they had that terrible fire.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:It basically burned down a whole town.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. From what I'm hearing, too. I was talking to a friend of mine who's in the roofing industry, and she heard as well is that the industry building homes out there aren't doing a very good job. They're trying to build all yearland now. She's in the state of Washington. She's in Seattle, but it's still that west coast feel. And she says that they're building homes during weather. They oughtn't be building homes.
Norm Murdock [:I see.
Brett Johnson [:They're just push and push and push, and they're using material that's cheaper. The OSB stuff yeah. In that kind of situation, shouldn't be so I think there are a lot of nuances to why those two insurance companies are pulling out.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Just a real interesting that I wish I had seen and I'm not advocating for or against global warming. I don't mean this, but there was some legislation. I don't know who the guy was. It's a YouTube video I keep seeing pop up every once in a while that he says that once, if global warming was really happening, then insurance companies would be not insuring, and they would be jumping on board saying, yeah, this is happening because it's costing too much and things. But I know this isn't all about global warming. It's about other I think there's a nuance to California, as well as that in their state law to be an insurance company servicing the state of California. You've got to look back two years, do an average of what you paid out, and it's a nuance of crap. Maybe every state has, but I imagine it's one of those, okay, they're tapping out. We're done.
Norm Murdock [:Well, we're done. So I saw Gavin Newsom recently in an interview talk about insurance for homes in California, and two things that he brought up, which I think are their windows into these business decisions. Yes.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:One would be if you take a very small lot with a house and maybe a kidney bean pool in the backyard, say, in Anaheim, that house, if you transported it to, say, Cahanna or Hilliard or Westerville or even Dublin, it might be a 300,000, $400,000 house because it's on a teeny tiny lot. It's in a packed neighborhood with in a pie shaped lot around a circle in a residential neighborhood. And we're talking about like, one 10th of an acre, like a really tiny little lot. Anyway, it might be in California, a one or a $2 million house. Right. So the same pack of matches that your kids are playing with while you're running to the grocery store and they set the house on fire and run out and watch their house burn down while Mommy's at the grocery store. Right. It hits allstate in California for maybe one or $2 million placement cost in Ohio, maybe $300,000. Right. So the other thing Newsom talked about was, take the example of Florida in the hurricane alley situation. There are fewer and fewer insurance companies that will take that deal, too. Same kind of thing. Just because, hey, we pretty much know once every ten or 15 years we're going to lose that house on the beach. It's going to be gone. Right. It's just inevitable that at some point, you know, a tidal wave or, or, you know, a surge, a storm surge or a hurricane wind itself is going to take down a swath of these homes, and it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, really.
Brett Johnson [:Yes, it is. Right. You're exactly right. I thought that was an interesting trend.
Norm Murdock [:It is.
Brett Johnson [:That when does this start to come into, like you said, the economic measures? When does it start to play in the Midwest?
Norm Murdock [:That's right. I don't know what it does make the Midwest more desirable from a cost of living.
Brett Johnson [:That's true.
Norm Murdock [:No question about it. For sure. We definitely are in an area that floods a lot less, forest fires a lot less. We're pretty earthquake free, although we're due for a big one, they say. But at any rate, yeah, that's pretty much why intel located in central Ohio.
Brett Johnson [:It's a safer zone than anywhere else.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah, exactly. Let's see here. There is some pretty major news going down at the state House. So by the end of this month, the House and the Senate need to resolve their two different budget bills and give it to the governor to sign. So unlike the federal government, which is allowed to run at a deficit, ohio's Constitution demands that the budget be met, that the budget can't carry a deficit over year to year. So the income and the expenses have to zero out, or they have to or there will have to be a surplus, but there cannot be a deficit under Ohio law. So the Senate version so they have not resolved the two bills. The two bills are different between the House and the Senate. So they'll go to conference committee and work out the differences. I think most Ohioans want to root for the Senate version. Let me tell you why, brett, you tell me what you think. So currently, Ohio has four different tiers of income tax rates. The Senate is their version of the budget bill will get rid of two of those and reduce it to a flatter tax, not only a numerically smaller percent of an income tax, but only two levels instead of four. So we'll get an income tax break out of the Senate versus the House. And then the other big thing, and I'm sure there's 100 other things. But the other really big thing is we all know about education vouchers. So traditionally how that has worked is you had to be poor. I mean, let's just economically disadvantaged a low income person. They had within certain school districts, usually metro districts. There have been, over the years, various programs that Ohio has put into place. Like in Cleveland, where a family of very modest means, a poor family would get a school voucher that they could then spend, if you will, at a charter school, a parochial school, or any public school within their contiguous area adjacent to either the district they're in or a neighboring one. Okay? And they could take that voucher and go it was like dollar bills. They could go, say, here is my students, my son or daughter's tax dollars that follow that student and give it to that school of their choice. In other words, parents like, that right. That gives parents choice about shopping for a school. Well, the Senate bill is going to widen that program beyond it doesn't have to be a low income household. It can be people in the middle class that will then be able to do what rich people are able to do. And that is, like, not everybody has the money. For example, let's just say Columbus, to maybe get their kid into Columbus, what's it called? The Columbus Academy or whatever, or say St. Charles, which is a high dollar school. They'll go to Hartley, maybe, or they'll go to one of the other parochial schools, but St. Charles charges a much higher tuition. It's an all boys school. But anyway, Cincinnati and Cleveland, they have their examples of these academies that are quite expensive to go to. And a voucher program would allow somebody of modest means to at least partway pay for that tuition with the voucher. So we talk about choice and options. I think my point of view is market forces like vouchers will, over time, improve. Yes. Initially, people will say, oh, I don't want my kid to go to Columbus Public Schools. Maybe some people will say that, and I'd rather have them go to a neighboring school district like Gahanna or Hilliard or Westerville or to Columbus Academy or to St. Charles. There might be that initial impulse. But over time, when Columbus's school district sees they're losing pupils because of a voucher program to other schools, it puts pressure on them to improve their reputation. It's like anything else. When you have competition, it tends to raise all boats. And if you're perceived as the worst provider, the worst grocery store, the worst gas station, or the worst bookstore or the worst whatever, plumber, carpenter, you're going to lose business. So what do you do? You either go out of business or else you kind of pull yourself up by the bootstraps and you become a better plumber or a better grocery store or whatever it is. So I think that will happen with some public schools. Some public schools are off the hook. Excellent. Walnut Hills, for example, in Cincinnati is a public school district that is just phenomenal. National honor society people and scholarships. So I'm rambling a bit. But those are the two big things in the Senate bill, and it'll be interesting to see if they survive the conference committee.
Brett Johnson [:Right, yeah, because I heard initially about the expansion of the voucher. I don't know, I guess I'm on both sides of the fence on that one because I see the state failing our schools, not supporting them as much as they could. I don't want them coming in and running them though either. But it's that we have in law that they're supposed to do what they're supposed to do and they still haven't done what they're supposed to do with the schools in regards to funding and helping out. That doesn't mean throwing money at it fixes the problem. I don't mean that. I think Columbus Public Schools has some really smart people that are trying to do the best that they can. And there are a lot of problems with every school system. And maybe Columbus Public Schools, as probably Cleveland has them and Cincinnati has them, is the culture around could be simple as an elementary school that really has predominantly a lot of families that the families just can't support or don't support or help with their kids. They're working three jobs or they just aren't participating in school to help their kids. There's a lot to that because I think a school is its teachers and its parents and kids. And when you don't have that connection, the school is going to fail. So we have to try. And again, like I said, government throwing money at it's not necessarily the answer. No, it's not. And I think there's some really cool programs that are being done at Chicago schools and such that are actually lifting and helping.
Norm Murdock [:I'm sure there are bad schools just.
Brett Johnson [:Have not done well, and it's all staged on building up community.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah, I think Obama helps a lot. President Obama's, Secretary of Education was one of those reform reformers from the Chicago area, as I recall. Yeah, he was a very phenomenal reformer and he had some ideas that basically never saw the light of day and eventually resigned. And then I believe was it governor, I'm forgetting the name of the governor from Michigan. She came over and she was Trump's Secretary of Education, and she had some further ideas. So I think you're right. The thing is that the way education in America has traditionally been funded is at the local level, off of property taxes primarily. And the state of Ohio by losing that massive case, the Perry County case, and having to distribute state funds in a different manner. It used to be per pupil without any consideration of is that an impoverished county of very low income versus a very wealthy county, say, with a nuclear power plant or an automotive plant or some kind of other utility or industry in that county paying huge amounts of property tax. And therefore their schools would get, like, new buses every two years. Whereas in Perry County, it was dirt poor, their school buses were dilapidated, their roofs were falling in, they had asbestos mitigation issues, et cetera, et cetera. So what you're saying is true. However, with state or federal funding come those strings.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:And that's a part that I see. You don't like that.
Brett Johnson [:No.
Norm Murdock [:You want local control.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. There's a piece to it because the government doesn't know anything about education or that locality. They have known nothing.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, it might be a farm.
Brett Johnson [:Because industrial one, anything it goes through that is dictated by the government that you need to teach this now, or we're going to use this set of standards or testings or whatever, follow the money.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:You know why they've chosen to go that direction? Because somebody in some other states advocated this testing system is great. We'll be able to tell you exact down to the students brain what they were thinking this morning, what they had for breakfast, why it's not working, this test. And they sold them bill of goods, and it gets passed through. They know nothing around the corner, downtown Columbus. They know nothing about educating. They don't know anything about it.
Norm Murdock [:There's definitely some gray area between a standardized test that doesn't fit the facts on the ground in that particular district, and yet teaching that two plus two doesn't always equal four, which is absurd, which doesn't serve a poor person at all. I mean, you want them to know math and not to be taught that math is flexible.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Well, and I think it's been proven, too, and this is not on the public school level, but the college that during COVID the entrance exams relaxed the act and Sat scores because of can't take the test, blah, blah, blah. And it's working now. Universities are holistically, looking at students coming in, going, what else are you doing?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:We're not going to base it on if you got a 24, 23, 29, whatever the hell the numbers are for act. I love that because having two kids gone through it and you have two oh, sure, yeah. That going through those Sat and act tests, they come out and say, you will have to probably take this test two or three times.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah, it's a snapshot, which is horseshit.
Brett Johnson [:Unbelievable. It's a money grab that you have to literally take this test two or three times.
Norm Murdock [:It's a snapshot, too, of how the student performed on that test that day. And also, as you know, there are very intelligent, very capable people who do not perform under the pressures of a.
Brett Johnson [:Clock, especially on a Saturday morning at 730. Well, and it's a five hour test because you're doing the whole cabinet. Of an AC.
Norm Murdock [: ,: Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:To take these practice tests or to go to a class, that all costs money. So assuming you even did all that, when you put the mountain of pressure on a particular student that maybe has ticks or Tourettes or has other kinds.
Brett Johnson [:Of test anxiety, if nothing else yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Let'S just group it. Right. They're autistic, whatever. And they may be a brilliant student and able to answer under other conditions than thinking their entire adult life hinges on this one day, it's going to determine the trajectory of the rest of their life. Right. It's too much. Right? It's too much.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And then you have an hour for this section. There are 90 questions, and you need to answer them all. So if you get through and you see you have five minutes left, and you have about 20 questions left, just fill them in.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Tell me that does not make sense.
Norm Murdock [:And you'll have kids that get stuck on one question. Sure. And maybe they know more about that question than the person who wrote the question.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:And they're thinking of all the exceptions, why I shouldn't say yes. This always is the case when the amoeba is in a petri dish and it's frozen, that it always dies. Yes. No. And they go, well, wait a minute. Actually, in the Arctic, there are some bacteria that are still alive at 50 below zero, and so kids get stuck. And it's really I can see taking that score as one piece of decide small piece. It's an aspect, but it's look at other things.
Brett Johnson [:Look at other things. Plus, I guess I'm singling these two tests out because there is a monetary consideration for this. You have to pay to take this test for everything else that you do. Holistically, you volunteer.
Norm Murdock [:I think the GPA is a much better indicator, most definitely, because it's over four years and it's an average. And then what you have to do is figure out, well, was that student. Now, this is what is not actually, because I've talked to enough college counselors and admissions officers, they don't rank high schools. But unofficially, if they're looking over if a B student from St. Charles, let's say, or Walnut Hills is before the admissions committee, and that B student would be an A plus at any other school, but because they go to a much higher ranked school, the admissions staff understands that you've got to give them the ability to factor things. Right? Sure. And it can't just be a numbers thing.
Brett Johnson [:No, it can't. And luckily, of many positive things that came out of COVID there have been many. That's one that I love. And I keep hearing that it's really being downplayed, and I would love to see those two companies just go out of business. Honestly, it's just the most stupid thing. And it's gotten worse when you and I had to take the test. Okay? You have to take it. Take it once you're done kind of stuff. And that's what's what you look like today.
Norm Murdock [:But anyway, hey, let's follow up on this other case. So do you remember that case in xenia of the transvestite individual? It was a biological man who was very overweight, and he was at the ymcmca, the YMCA thing. So Dave Yoast, our attorney general, just issued this past week an opinion letter about whether or not companies, cities, nonprofits could because the YMCA said, oh, no, we can't tell people which bathroom to use. We don't have the right under the law to do that. Dave Yose just came out with an opinion letter that he gave to the prosecuting attorney in Greene County where this matter, one of the YMCAs was located, who wanted to find out, was the YMCA staff correct in interpreting state law that they had no right to tell a bioman that he could not use the female restroom, showers and dressing room. And Yoast opinion said yes at the end of his 30 page opinion or whatever it was. I read the opinion, and it's online. You can go to the attorney general's site and read the opinion. But his letter said, yes. You are allowed to distinguish between the bio sex assignment of individuals and that absurd case with this YMCA gentleman who is pretending to be a woman. I'm trying to be neutral, but yet be factual. So he still has his mail junk.
Brett Johnson [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:And the judge in that case it was a municipal judge refused to hold him guilty because I think he just in his mind, he believed, I think is the reason he ruled. He didn't see the harm. I think the rest of us think he was wrong on that perception. But his ruling was that his flab, he was so grossly overweight that the flab, in his opinion, written opinion, probably covered his genitalia, which, I mean, it's an absurd kind of decision.
Brett Johnson [:So if he'd have been in with a towel wrapped around him, same scenario.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah, I guess. But if he had been a thin transvestite and no flab, then I guess then under this analysis, the judge would have found him guilt. It's just crazy. So yoast is basically his opinion, if you boil it down, says, oh, no, you can in fact, bar a bioman from using bio female facilities. I just thought it was important to revisit that story, because that was the big defense that the YMCA staff raised, is they said, oh, we don't want to get into judging people and telling them that they can't do something. And Yoast is saying, oh, no, you have that power. You can't skate on that anymore.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, exactly.
Norm Murdock [:Let's talk a little bit, if you don't mind, unless you have some no, that's good. About the Trump indictment.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. So we have some real heavy hitters from Ohio that have either been by virtue of their committee appointments or just have decided to insert themselves into what I think most people think is a political prosecution, in essence, and I'll get to that. And people like Senator J. D. Vance, for example, and Representative Congressman Jim Jordan and other Ohio congressmen are involved in one way or another in reacting to the indictment. And some would say persecution, not prosecution, of Donald Trump in a very unique and novel set of indictments. So just without my opinion, just to state the facts, he was indicted on 37 felony counts. 31 of the 37 are espionage violations, and six, the other six of the 37 are process crimes, such as conspiracy or other obstruction of legal proceedings, and that amount to a felony. Those are the accusations. That's the indictment and as we all know, a grand jury doesn't get information from the other side. It's only the prosecution appearing before the grand jury. So the grand jury hears one side, and the prosecutor doesn't have to call contra witnesses. He or she calls on the witnesses that help the prosecution get the indictment. So there's the old saying in law school, you can indict a ham sandwich. Right? Right. Sure. Okay. Because it's a one sided thing by design. By design. That's how our system is. The grand jury system is one sided by design. There is a judge in the grand jury room, and if something, according to the judge, is out of order, the judge will step in. But otherwise it's completely the prosecutor can present pretty much whatever he or she wishes. So, okay. The grand jury hands down an indictment, 37 felonies on Trump. The trial court at this point is going to be in Miami with a federal judge. It'll be in federal court. Trump has appeared already and has pled not guilty to all charges. And at that point, Brett, is there anything you care to add to that?
Brett Johnson [:I think it's early for me to understand there's some nuances to this that I'm learning in regards to what does that mean, what does this mean? What does that mean?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:It sounds as though there needs to be some flushing out of what conversations happened, who told what to whom, who signed off on what that maybe shouldn't have, or was the information incomplete, possibly. I think the conspiracy stuff is probably a little bit far fetched. Probably. And I think that's just headline making. That's headline making and maybe looking at it as, okay, those are throwaway charges. Here's what we're really going to go after and such.
Norm Murdock [:Do you mean the espionage?
Brett Johnson [:Yes. I didn't mean conservative.
Norm Murdock [:I said that wrong, I know.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Those are probably throwaways. Let's get him on this? Well, Capone did a lot of bad stuff, but we'll get him on the tax stuff.
Norm Murdock [:Kind of, kind of like that, kind.
Brett Johnson [:Of I'm not saying Trump yeah, they.
Norm Murdock [:Didn'T get Caponed for bootlegging, right? They didn't get him for murder. They got it for tax evade. They got it for tax evade.
Brett Johnson [:So they put everything on the wall that you can that can stick, I guess, sort of thing. We had discussions before going on and just that it's a slippery it's going to be messy. Yeah, it's going to be messy. Beyond what happens with Trump, what's the next thing that's going to happen? We're just weaponizing the government. Stupid stuff.
Norm Murdock [:When you are acting out your political battle by indicting and charging and trying to jail your political opponents, it takes it to a whole nother level.
Brett Johnson [:It's a whole different level.
Norm Murdock [: he has endorsed Trump for the: Brett Johnson [:He's playing hardball because this is politics and everybody's probably saying, hell yeah, that's what we should do. You're slowing the process of due process, though. Do we really want to the courts are going to be jammed up. Well, nothing is going to get resolved.
Norm Murdock [:And here we go.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Situation, Bret, there's a million other things that they can do.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:So right now, I don't know. I took a tour of the FBI headquarters in DC many years ago, right. It was falling apart back then. The building itself is crumbling. So you go in, you take the tour, you see J. Edgar Hoover stuff, and they shoot a machine gun for you. They show you all this cool stuff and they give you the history of the FBI. And it's really impactful in my family. My father worked for the FBI for a little bit. So it's one of those kinds of tours where you have some reverence for what that institution at least used to stand for. And I have some problems with the FBI in the last ten years, but I have reverence for that institution, for what it stood for, for what I hope it will stand for once again, once it's depoliticized, and for the very straight laced enforcement of the law that the FBI always did until very recently. Now, that's my opinion.
Brett Johnson [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:I just want to say that other people may differ with me, and I'm sure many do, but at any rate, there is an expenditure that is before Congress on building. I mean, this has been going on for a long time on financing a new replacement headquarters, either on the same land or a different site, a new building. And under these circumstances, I've heard many of these politicians say, well, they can forget about their appropriation for a new FBI building given what the FBI did, that raid on Mar a Lago and some other things that people perceive as interfering with the process that Trump was doing with the National Archives. They were negotiating in real time right up to the raid. And in fact, the FBI gave Trump's people instructions on further securing the room where these other records were that were in dispute, that that were that were being negotiated about, and then they raided, like, you know, and I think some of the reaction by the trump team has been well, wait a minute. We were talking with you in good faith about whether this record or that record is part of what we need to give back to the government or not. And we were hashing that out. And in the middle of this, Merrick Garland told the FBI, in spite of the FBI apparently blowing back a little bit, there's been some whistleblowers within the FBI that have said many of the people were essentially saying we need to slow down. This is not the right way to proceed with a former president. This is a special case under the Presidential Records Act, and we should continue these negotiations and only if at some point it's very clear that Trump is going to defy the law and there's something serious enough to national security that we need to raid we shouldn't do it. But in spite of that, Garland told him to do it. That is what came from the FBI whistleblowers on this. And so people are saying that the indictment is unfair in that it is not about so Jack Smith, the prosecutor, he is not suing Trump as a civil matter. Like the Department of justice sued Bill Clinton. They sued George Bush. They sued Obama. They sued Richard Nixon. Many of the former presidents were brought through a civil process, not a criminal process like this, but a civil process under what's called the Presidential Records Act, whereby the president has the right to not only declassify, but also keep all kinds of records for their putative presidential library, for their archives, et cetera. And naturally, that's in dispute with the National Archives. That's fine. I could see a lawsuit or I could see civil actions brought, but I think a lot of the American public is saying, well, wait a minute, you impeached Trump because he picked up the phone and asked that his political opponent, Joe Biden, be investigated by Ukraine. Okay? And so you thought that was outrageous that he would involve himself in something potentially involving his political opponent. Okay? But now with Trump being Biden's political opponent, biden's administration is prosecuting Trump in essence doing the very same thing that Trump was supposedly impeached for. Biden is doing the very same thing using not Ukraine, but the organs of the United States federal government. So there are a lot of issues. There was also the piercing of the attorney client privilege. And during the grand jury process, some of Trump's attorneys were brought into the grand jury and forced by the judge to answer questions about what should have been confidential communications between an attorney and a client. And so that is in dispute. So at any rate, many former federal prosecutors have laid out all kinds of problems with this indictment. And it seems to me that probably, Brett, this issue will not be resolved in time for the election. There was going to be so much maneuvering, so many hearings, so many decisions. I heard Alan Dershowitz, the former Harvard professor, was talking about just finding jurors who are able to hear national security documents that are going to be brought forth in this trial. They're going to have to vet the jurors for their background on whether or not they're compromised. They're also going to have to they're going to have to vet the attorneys and the prosecutors for the same thing because they're now going to be reading classified documents, right?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And so Dershowitz is saying that'll take a year right there. So more than likely, this is Norm now playing crescan. So I got my crystal ball, right? I am saying, more than likely, it's not going to be resolved. We're not going to have a trial. We're not going to get to a resolution on this espionage case, right, which is a joke. We're not going to get a decision until it won't happen before we have the election next year, is what I think. And if a Republican replaces Biden, whether it's Trump pardoning himself or Nikki haley has said she'll pardoning Vivic Ramaswamy here from Upper Arlington in Ohio. He said he will pardon Trump. And there is pressure now on Pence and Chris Christie and the whole the rest of the gang. Tim Scott. He said he'll pardon Trump. No question.
Brett Johnson [:You know what would be really interesting? If Holistically, the next president, let's say it's a Democrat, whatever it is, whoever it is, pardons Trump.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, I think wouldn't the move of the century be right now for Biden to pardon Trump? Because it would show Biden has a big heart.
Brett Johnson [:It shows Biden respects the office of.
Norm Murdock [:The presidency because he could get caught.
Brett Johnson [:Up in that web as well, or any future Democrat get caught up in that bullshit.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, he's got the Corvete Garage records, right?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:The records at Penn State.
Brett Johnson [:That would be amazing. I know. He'd be true Blue would probably say.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, they'd have a cow.
Brett Johnson [:They'd have a cow. They say, you're shooting your own foot. But it's like, good God, the guy's 120 years old.
Norm Murdock [:Right?
Brett Johnson [:Pardon the dude.
Norm Murdock [:Right?
Brett Johnson [:Biden's done. I mean, if he gets another four, his political career is done.
Norm Murdock [:And let's face it, Trump's old also, right? I mean, pardon the dude.
Brett Johnson [:Pardon the dude.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, it's ridiculous at this point.
Brett Johnson [:And respect the office and forget about the guy.
Norm Murdock [:Gerald Ford pardon?
Brett Johnson [:Nixon. Right.
Norm Murdock [:And he didn't wait until after a trial. He did it before Nixon was ever tried. He just said, really, the country needs to heal.
Brett Johnson [:We need to get over that. We need to get past stop the insanity.
Norm Murdock [:Stop the insanity.
Brett Johnson [:But I think they get all it's that now they get all hot fired.
Norm Murdock [:Up about it now. Ford did that, and then he didn't get reelected. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Maybe we didn't need him in there either. But at the same time, because he.
Norm Murdock [:Took over when Nixon resigned, gerald Ford became he was vice president, then became president. He ran for election, won the first.
Brett Johnson [:Time, and that may not have been.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, excuse me, he did not win.
Brett Johnson [:No, he did win. No, he had the two remaining two or a year and a half.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. And then he lost to Carter. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, and that's probably why I think the American the American people still had the stench of Watergate in their mouth, maybe, and they just said, you know what?
Brett Johnson [:Ford did the right thing, though, I think. Oh, my God, you got to get over it.
Norm Murdock [:Can you imagine Richard Nixon in Leavenworth? Former president, the guy who ended the Vietnam War. Right. We're going to put him in prison. The guy who opened up relations to China because we had following the Korean War, where we fought China in a hot war. Our relations with Mao at that time were very strained, like they are now, once again, because Xi is very aggressive.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, well, we'll keep updating on that because I think it's a very nuanced case.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:I like our perception and looking at it as what if this what if that right. And what could happen there was a.
Norm Murdock [:Terrible so we talked about the death penalty in two shows ago with Paul Scarcella, an expert, an assistant attorney general here in Ohio, and that was a great show. I encourage people to go to the website and download that show. It's a great show. We just had in the last couple of days a Claremont County man, 32 years old. This I can't almost I can't say the words. He shot and killed his three sons, little boys, and he shot his wife. She did not die, but his three sons did. And I'm just thinking, man, if they ever use a death penalty again yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you three you shoot your three sons.
Brett Johnson [:I know, and I think that episode really dives into that. Every case is unique. Does it do what it's supposed to do? What do you do? I don't know. What do you do? Obviously, the guy's got to screw those well, obviously.
Norm Murdock [:If you're done being a father and you hate your wife and you despise the fact that you have these dependents, hey, go get counseling, walk away, get a divorce. Why would you kill your sons? I mean, it's unbelievable. It's so monstrous.
Brett Johnson [:It's hard to get your head wrapped around.
Norm Murdock [:I hate to end the show on.
Brett Johnson [:A downer, but you're right. I'd encourage anybody to listen to that episode is really good because it gets you thinking about the death.
Norm Murdock [:Sure. Got me thinking.
Brett Johnson [:It does. In regards to what it does and doesn't do. And then you have this situation about okay.
Norm Murdock [:It reopens that thought, man. You're just thinking back in the old days, daniel Boone days. Hey, boys, go get a rope. Honest to God. I know, right? A guy wipes out his family, they'd have just hung him.
Brett Johnson [:It's done. Yeah, it's done.
Norm Murdock [:They'd have just hung yeah, exactly. They'd had a quick trial. Did he do it? The guy probably say, yeah, I did it. Go ahead and hang me.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, he wants it done anyway.
Norm Murdock [:Probably.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:How horrible.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, we haven't updated blogs in a bit, but I know I'm working on one. It just doesn't get up there. You're doing a lot better job. I know Steve's going to get up there, but yeah, we have a lot of information on the website. Please go to it. Commonsenseohioshow.com. Obviously, we're cranking out episodes here. You got any ideas or would have an idea for a guest, please let us know, contact us. We'd love to parse that out and have people on because obviously we're open to guests just to have a really good discussion, civil discussion, and walk away from the table. Still friends, but bringing up every angle for any type of topic that makes sense and affects us in Ohio. But yeah. Common sense. Ohioshow.com. Check us out on Social as well, too. We try to keep the social media channels busy. Video is probably coming soon. We keep hearing that from Steve, but he never turns the camera on. So you and I get pretty DUP if we just don't get the camera on. But we'll have him back soon. Called away for this episode. But yeah, check us out. CommonsenseOhioshow.com and that's all we got for this week. Thanks for listening.
