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Raising Your Podcast Editing Rates – PEM0047
Episode 474th March 2022 • Podcast Editors Mastermind • Bryan Entzminger, Carrie Caulfield Arick, Daniel Abendroth
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Raising your podcast editing rates...

It's scary.

It's necessary.

It can lead to GREAT conversations.

But if you're like me (Bryan), you might find those conversations hard to think about and even harder to start. Join us for this live recording of the Podcast Editors Mastermind as we share our experiences and perspectives and hope to hear yours, too.

We want to see ALL of us get paid what we're worth so that we can provide great service to our clients and customers and also live well, knowing that what we do matters and that we're compensated well for it.

Listen to Discover

  • Why raising rates can be scary
  • How many clients your Yetis have lost due to raising rates
  • One tool that can help make it easier to start the, "My rates have gone up" conversation

Links And Resources

Editor

This episode of the Podcast Editors Mastermind was edited by Alejandro Ramirez. You can find him on Facebook if you're interested in talking with him about editing your show.

Be a Guest

If you're a podcast editor, we'd love to see if you'd be a fit for a future episode. Fill out this form to let us know you're interested, and we'll contact you to see if it's a good fit.

Your Yetis Are

About the Podcast Editors Mastermind

The Podcast Editors Mastermind is for professional podcast editors who want to grow their business and get more clients. We’re creating a community of like-minded professionals that are passionate about the art and science of editing podcasts.

Our goal is to help you build your business by providing tools, resources, and support so you can focus on what matters most—your craft. This isn’t just another group where everyone talks about how great they are at podcast editing; we show our work!

Follow or subscribe and take the Podcast Editors Mastermind with you today!

Mentioned in this episode:

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Are you looking to start or improve your podcast editing business? To turn your DAW into dollars (or your favorite currency)? If so, check out Podcast Editor Academy and use the code "YETIS" to get your first 30 days free!

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Transcripts

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Uh, so how much

Daniel Abendroth:

is that?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And welcome to the podcast.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Editors mastermind me only podcast for the business of podcasts name.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I am your.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's for the evening, Carrie Caulfield, Eric, and you can find me@yayapodcasting.com with me,

Daniel Abendroth:

Daniel Abin drought.

Daniel Abendroth:

You can find me@rockmedia.audio.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm Brian and spring.

Bryan Entzminger:

You can find me@toptieraudio.com.

Bryan Entzminger:

And to my side is

Jennifer Longworth:

Jennifer Longworth, a bourbon barrel podcasting.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Now, if you're not familiar in, Jennifer is one of our original Cohoes who took a

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

hiatus and she thought this topic tonight was so fun.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

She wanted to join us.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So welcome back, Jennifer.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Thank you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So on top for tonight is a conversation that, um, I think is had all over the podcast, editing forums this time

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

of year, since it's the beginning of the year, we're starting things fresh and new lots of contracts expiring.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We're going to be talking about raising your rates.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Let me look at my little handy sheet here because so, okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

The first thing is why would you raise your rates?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Why not just keep clients, uh, the same pay rate?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I hope this is a pretty simple answer.

Daniel Abendroth:

There's a lot of possible answers to this one, but I guess the two that just

Daniel Abendroth:

kinda dumped in my mind, one inflation prices.

Daniel Abendroth:

Just go up price of goods and services.

Daniel Abendroth:

Always go.

Daniel Abendroth:

And we're no different and too, like, we get better, like I'm constantly improving.

Daniel Abendroth:

So yeah, like I'm just, I'm a better editor I feel than I was a year ago or like I'm

Daniel Abendroth:

offering better service than I was a year ago.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think you kind of lead into one of the other things that I see as a common thread.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like I'm raising rates because I'm adding video editing or I'm adding, I'm doing value added services.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think.

Bryan Entzminger:

Kind of two pieces of that, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

One is raising your overall rate by expanding the services that you offer.

Bryan Entzminger:

But the other is just like the cost of the actual service, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

So let's say that I've always added, or I've always offered video editing.

Bryan Entzminger:

I could potentially raise my rates for that, but also just because I add video editing doesn't

Bryan Entzminger:

mean that I can't also raise the rate for my audio editing as I get better as, as inflation happens.

Bryan Entzminger:

As we add new capabilities and new skills.

Bryan Entzminger:

There's a lot of different facets, I think.

Bryan Entzminger:

And like for me, one

Daniel Abendroth:

thing that I've added is quality check.

Daniel Abendroth:

So now, before any show goes live, there's at least one other person listening to every episode.

Daniel Abendroth:

That's just something that I've started doing to cover myself.

Daniel Abendroth:

But it's also like, Hey, you now have a little more peace of mind to know that like your shows are going

Daniel Abendroth:

to go out properly, like sounding the best they can.

Bryan Entzminger:

That actually kind of plays into one of the things that I've been working on in terms

Bryan Entzminger:

of my path in terms of pricing structure, right.

Bryan Entzminger:

Is building in pricing for continuity, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

So that as I start building out my small team and I have more redundancy than I'm providing a service

Bryan Entzminger:

to my clients beyond just what I deliver to them.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

Because as I get this built out, then they will know that there's a backup.

Bryan Entzminger:

If somebody gets.

Bryan Entzminger:

Things don't have to go down.

Bryan Entzminger:

If something was to happen to me, we've got something in place so that the work can continue.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, there might be a couple of bumps, but it's not just like, well, we're a hundred percent out of the game.

Bryan Entzminger:

Cause Brian can't do anything for a week.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know.

Bryan Entzminger:

Jennifer, what do you think?

Bryan Entzminger:

Well,

Daniel Abendroth:

I think

Jennifer Longworth:

that there's, you all have mentioned the good reasons to raise your rates, but we also, when we're in

Jennifer Longworth:

a traditional job, we always want the boss to give us a raise.

Jennifer Longworth:

Right?

Jennifer Longworth:

I always want to think of a raise when you're your own boss, the only person in charge of giving you a raise is.

Jennifer Longworth:

And at this time for you to get a raise due to inflation, due to increase costs, whatever the reason is, well, you have to do it.

Jennifer Longworth:

You have to make that move.

Jennifer Longworth:

No one can do it for you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm going to be a little, maybe controversial on this topic in, okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Just don't want more money.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like why do we always think that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We shouldn't have more money.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean, I feel like even as a culture, like, we're always like, oh, well I want to raise because, or I don't want like too much.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I want just enough, but I feel like there's a mindset there where it's not okay to just want more money.

Jennifer Longworth:

It's that scarcity mindset that the abundance mindset,

Daniel Abendroth:

right.

Daniel Abendroth:

There's a lot.

Daniel Abendroth:

We could dissect that goes into politics and socioeconomics.

Daniel Abendroth:

That probably be a little too controversial, but yeah, totally.

Daniel Abendroth:

We deserve more money because we want it.

Daniel Abendroth:

So

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

this is a concept that a client actually talked about on her show, which I don't know if that

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

was necessarily good considering she had a podcast editor.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I'm about to ask her for more money, but

Daniel Abendroth:

just be like, Hey, I was listening to this mic as a camera, which one?

Daniel Abendroth:

And the host said.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I should want more money, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's just okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To want more money.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I feel like that's very true.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like, um, I want to do more things and more things cost money.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so I want more, I want more.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Sorry,

Jennifer Longworth:

when I go on another cruise with my family.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Oh yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm actually really glad that you mentioned that Carrie, because it kind of plays into some of the comments

Bryan Entzminger:

that we saw when we asked this question in the Facebook group, the podcast editors, mastermind, Facebook group about

Bryan Entzminger:

people talking about questions, about pricing because of the.

Bryan Entzminger:

A number of comments in there that were related to things like imposter syndrome or feeling like I have to justify the value

Bryan Entzminger:

add, or like even some of the stuff that I've talked about.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's really more of a strategy than a why that I think is addressed by just understanding

Bryan Entzminger:

that it's okay to want to, to prosper and to do.

Bryan Entzminger:

Between you and Jennifer, we can probably just drop the mic and go home.

Bryan Entzminger:

Cause Jennifer had that quarterback like, yeah, see you later.

Bryan Entzminger:

You know, if you're, if you're your own boss, the only person to give you a raise as you like,

Bryan Entzminger:

those two are gold right there in my day job.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's okay for me to want more money.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I don't have to justify why I want more money now, whether or not I get it comes down to a negotiation between

Bryan Entzminger:

me and my boss and whatever structures are set in place to make that not happen, but that's not a bad thing.

Bryan Entzminger:

I think that's really.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I just want to take a quick second to welcome everybody that is going up and chat.

Daniel Abendroth:

Thank you so much for being here.

Daniel Abendroth:

If you're listening to the replay of this or watching the replay, be sure to join us every other Thursday at 9 0 5 Eastern time.

Daniel Abendroth:

Pretty regularly, Helen King said, yes, it is.

Daniel Abendroth:

Carrie is okay to want more.

Daniel Abendroth:

Kayla says preach Carrie.

Daniel Abendroth:

Totally cool.

Daniel Abendroth:

Just want more money, Mike Wilburn.

Daniel Abendroth:

Bravo and wanting more money, wanting to make money and then more money for what you dedicate umpteen hours to is a good thing.

Daniel Abendroth:

Don't bill a NYSE the want to make more money.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'm so tired of it.

Daniel Abendroth:

And I'll ask outlets of life.

Daniel Abendroth:

Andrea also says also your skills and expertise increase over time.

Daniel Abendroth:

So your rate should too.

Daniel Abendroth:

So it seems to be a common theme of like, yes, that's prosper.

Daniel Abendroth:

Let's all.

Daniel Abendroth:

What more money?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So the thing we do for our clients.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is hello.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Ma'am if they, you know, hopefully.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If they're running their podcasts as a business, or they're profiting from their podcasts in some way,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

we are giving them the means in which to do that because they do not have to edit their podcast.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We are doing it for them.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We making them sound awesome.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We were making it deliver a clear message.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You know, we're working with them to do all the things.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It is a transactional relationship, but as your client prospers more, you should also prosper more.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

At least that's my belief.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think also to tie into that, I think there's a certain level of peace

Bryan Entzminger:

of mind that we as editors might forget about.

Bryan Entzminger:

But for those of you that have been following the show for a while, we used to offer different people,

Bryan Entzminger:

the opportunity to edit the show for their portfolio.

Bryan Entzminger:

And we've stopped doing that well, because honestly it created a lot of uncertainty as to whether or not we

Bryan Entzminger:

were going to be able to deliver our episode on time.

Bryan Entzminger:

Partly because we're just working with a new person every time.

Bryan Entzminger:

But also partly because some of the people that thought they had the goods.

Bryan Entzminger:

And now that we've got somebody in place who does this consistently and we pay him so he

Bryan Entzminger:

can keep doing it, shout out to Alexandra.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's very encouraging to get that episode every time and know that it's going to be right now.

Bryan Entzminger:

There might be things that we would have done differently.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's fine.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like there are always stylistic things, but to know that we've got something that we can just take and publish is

Bryan Entzminger:

great as we provide that for our clients, that's a huge.

Bryan Entzminger:

And as we get better at doing that, and as we, as that relationship develops, there's no reason

Bryan Entzminger:

that our value to them shouldn't increase.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Absolutely.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So I'm curious as first of all, I'm going to have this caveat, like I say, this, this is kind of a new mindset for me, so

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I have not been great about raising rates until recently.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It was a conversation I didn't want to have, it was a conversation I forgot about like,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

just one day it's January, the next day.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's December.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So while I kind of have this mindset that, Hey, I need more glitter in my life and somebody has got to pay for it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's not going to be me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's easy to say that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's easy for us to all sit here with each other and be like, yeah, more money, but it's less easy to do it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

My first question for you guys and for everybody else in the chat is, so how often do you raise

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

rates or is it not a regular practice for

Daniel Abendroth:

you?

Daniel Abendroth:

Not as often as I should.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think it was 2020 when we last raise our rates.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think ideally probably yearly, but yeah, I'm not consistent with that.

Bryan Entzminger:

So for me, when it comes to new clients, I'm fairly good at keeping my rates updated for a while.

Bryan Entzminger:

I was actually, every time I got a yes, the next client, I charged more and I feel like I've gotten to a good place right

Bryan Entzminger:

now where there's, I'm getting enough, knows that I don't think it's time for me to increase my rates yet on that side.

Bryan Entzminger:

So that's been pretty, pretty good.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's the existing clients like Mike Wilkerson mentioned in the chat as far as like that uncomfortable conversation.

Bryan Entzminger:

I know for me when I talk about mindset, cause Carrie, you talked about how it's easy to talk

Bryan Entzminger:

a good game and not necessarily walk the walk.

Bryan Entzminger:

I've got one client who I should have had the right conversation with at the beginning of last year.

Bryan Entzminger:

So a year into the pandemic and I put it off because I was like, well, I mean, it's, it's a rough time.

Bryan Entzminger:

I probably shouldn't have that conversation with her right now.

Bryan Entzminger:

And then like, now I'm looking back and going, well, it wasn't rough for me.

Bryan Entzminger:

Just because it was referred.

Bryan Entzminger:

It doesn't mean that.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I know it sounds stupid when you say it out loud, but that's the head trash you deal with for an entire

Bryan Entzminger:

year going, oh man, I should've had that conversation.

Bryan Entzminger:

Well, but I mean inflation and well, but now I'm like a year past that I'm going now.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm going okay.

Bryan Entzminger:

We should probably be having a conversation about a 20% rate hike or more at this point based on how my pricing has

Bryan Entzminger:

increased over time while this client's has stayed flat.

Bryan Entzminger:

And now I'm going, can I have a 20.

Bryan Entzminger:

Pricing conversation.

Bryan Entzminger:

How do you sell that in to go?

Bryan Entzminger:

Because 20% is not insignificant in my mind.

Bryan Entzminger:

If I got a 20% raise at my day job, that's pretty nice

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

little race.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Mike Wilkerson said something really.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I think an important, if you don't initiate, then you'll get dragged into complacency and the feeling that you can.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Raise your rates eventually.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I think that's what you're saying, but you can't by the time.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So I actually experienced that, like one of my first clients, I didn't raise rates for like a year and

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it was a lot, so it was, you know, it was one of those, you start out new, you're doing a low rate.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And then I realize that like the time it takes to do all the pieces for his show, I wasn't even making minimum wage.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I put it off and I put it off and I let it go and let it go.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think like another six months went by and I remember talking to you guys about it

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

and y'all were like, yeah, raise weight rates.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think what I felt like I had to do was like, actually do the math forum about how many hours it

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

takes to do the work and show him that I was not, I was making like $3 an hour and that kind of.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Shocked him.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Not as much as it shocked me, of course, but then we renegotiated, but I felt like I had to

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

do that much justification of raising rates.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I'm still not great at raising rates regularly.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Jennifer, what about you?

Jennifer Longworth:

So I am not good at raising them regularly, but I am in the process of.

Jennifer Longworth:

You know, doing the new people.

Jennifer Longworth:

Come on, there's a new rate.

Jennifer Longworth:

People ask me how much I charge.

Jennifer Longworth:

I tell them the new rate.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm not even thinking about the old number now.

Jennifer Longworth:

Like it's the new number?

Jennifer Longworth:

Cause one of my people already pays that number.

Jennifer Longworth:

I just do a little extra for him.

Jennifer Longworth:

So it's like, oh, well he already pays it.

Jennifer Longworth:

Somebody else's already paying that.

Jennifer Longworth:

He just gets a little bit of extra love.

Jennifer Longworth:

Well, he's paying us.

Jennifer Longworth:

Somebody else probably will too.

Jennifer Longworth:

Right.

Jennifer Longworth:

Oh, wait, they're paying that now, too.

Jennifer Longworth:

Okay, great.

Jennifer Longworth:

But I'm not even having the conversation with the lower number.

Jennifer Longworth:

It took a while from my base rate of, you know, my first show man, $25 or whatever, I've come a long way since then, but

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

the

Jennifer Longworth:

the doubling and tripling the rate a few years ago.

Jennifer Longworth:

Well, like, oh, now I'm legit.

Jennifer Longworth:

You know?

Jennifer Longworth:

So for those of, I don't see anyone, any beginners in the chat, but for beginners who

Jennifer Longworth:

are listening and lurking, you know, it's okay.

Jennifer Longworth:

Just start out at the $25, but don't stay there for long.

Jennifer Longworth:

If you figure out what you're doing, have that conversation.

Jennifer Longworth:

As soon as you.

Jennifer Longworth:

Because Mike say, you're going to end up getting stuck there forever.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I had a client who wanted to stay at the 25, 30 $5 level.

Jennifer Longworth:

I was like, Hey, yeah, I'm raising it up to 50, which is not where I am now.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm higher than 50 now.

Jennifer Longworth:

But at that point I was like, I'm going to raise it to 50.

Jennifer Longworth:

And you all might remember my agony over that potential conversation.

Jennifer Longworth:

I was just going to go to $50.

Jennifer Longworth:

Uh, and they said, no, so I don't work for them anymore.

Jennifer Longworth:

And that's okay.

Jennifer Longworth:

Because now I have people paying me a heck of a lot more than that to do what I was doing before.

Bryan Entzminger:

The thing I like to remind myself, because I remember that with you is

Bryan Entzminger:

every client that you lose at the old rate.

Bryan Entzminger:

If you've doubled the rates, you only need half of a new client to replace that.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

So I understand that sometimes there are fixed costs that need to be covered, but a lot of what we do is really time-based.

Bryan Entzminger:

So it's really more variable costs.

Bryan Entzminger:

And so as long as your base costs are.

Bryan Entzminger:

Losing a low paying client is not necessarily a bad thing.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't like it.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't like to lose relationships.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think that's my challenge, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

To me, losing a client over pricing is like failing in a relationship.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I don't know why that is because I'm not even sure sometimes I like people, but there's that?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, you start to care, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You care about your client.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You're listening to them like every week, sometimes multiple times a week.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Just like a podcast listener, have that sense of intimacy with them.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But it's like a false sense of intimacy because they're not listening to your voice, every email.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, so I don't think they're as connected.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And where, you know, since we have that intimacy, we're putting so much, we're projecting so

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

much into that conversation in our head.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because they care and what if they're having problems and, oh, what are, we don't want to make it harder for them.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so there's this whole emotional baggage we bring to it, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That they don't even have, or even think about.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think the clients I have raised rates on or changed rates based on the scope of work, it was like, okay, it was easy.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It wasn't as hard or as like, I didn't have.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Do all is hoop jumping.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I thought I had or justification that I thought I would have to because they were looking at it as a transactional

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

relationship instead of an intimate relationship.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right?

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

I wonder sometimes if, maybe that's why it's so frustrating when we get crap audio to start with, and it feels like the

Bryan Entzminger:

client doesn't even care because that starts to like, maybe at some point we become over-invested in the relationship.

Bryan Entzminger:

To where we care more about the quality of what they put out than they do.

Jennifer Longworth:

I broke up with clients once in there, their message to me was, oh, these minor

Jennifer Longworth:

edits you do for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Jennifer Longworth:

I was like, oh no, no, thank you.

Jennifer Longworth:

We don't work together anymore.

Jennifer Longworth:

And, and I don't even remember what the rest of the email said, but the minor edits I do

Jennifer Longworth:

for y'all did you listen to what you said?

Jennifer Longworth:

Oh man.

Jennifer Longworth:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

Here's my session with 275 edit points in 33 minutes.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And Andrea has a good point.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

They also don't listen to their raw audios.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

They don't know what magic we produce though.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I have some clients who listened to the raw audio, so.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

They do know what magic I produce.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

They happen to be the higher paying clients, oddly enough, which is an interesting correlation.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So that's really.

Jennifer Longworth:

I have new clients now.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I'm listening to this about raising rates regularly.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm like, well, I'm more like have a rotating the word or a revolving door of clients coming in and out.

Jennifer Longworth:

So people are pod fading or coming back on or whatever.

Jennifer Longworth:

So they just come back and someone's like, oh, I'm ready to come back.

Jennifer Longworth:

Now.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm like, well, it's twice as much as when you left.

Jennifer Longworth:

So it's not like I'm raising rates on people regularly who are my clients.

Jennifer Longworth:

They just there's just enough turnover.

Jennifer Longworth:

Cause I had.

Jennifer Longworth:

Six years ago when I started doing this, I had a really crappy little clients and I'm glad I didn't work with any of them

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

anymore.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So I'm curious if you get pushback from people who come back and you're like, well, I've doubled my

Jennifer Longworth:

rates.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm waiting to hear back from that email it's happening this week.

Jennifer Longworth:

We'll find out what happens.

Jennifer Longworth:

Stay tuned.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

What about you guys?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Have you ever been in that situation?

Daniel Abendroth:

I think I'm going through that now.

Daniel Abendroth:

Well that like returning clients getting a higher rate, but just pushback on a new.

Daniel Abendroth:

And it kind of goes back to like the addition by subtraction.

Daniel Abendroth:

It's a client that I do.

Daniel Abendroth:

Audio editing was minor video editing.

Daniel Abendroth:

I don't do any major ones, but I still like take their raw video, throw on the intro and outro, clean up the audio and

Daniel Abendroth:

produce that along with show notes and like a descript captions.

Daniel Abendroth:

So it's probably like pretty time-intensive, but they're one of the lowest paying clients because they've been with

Daniel Abendroth:

us for a while and we liked the work that they're doing.

Daniel Abendroth:

So we've just kind of like been going along with the lower.

Daniel Abendroth:

Because of what they're doing.

Daniel Abendroth:

And it just got to the point where it's like, we dread working on the show and it doesn't help

Daniel Abendroth:

that we're also making so little money off of it.

Daniel Abendroth:

So the rate is more than doubling.

Daniel Abendroth:

So we're giving them, it's like the rate is like probably like 2.5, almost three times as much.

Daniel Abendroth:

And then we're giving them a little bit of discount because they've been with this for so long.

Daniel Abendroth:

We know like it's just not in their budget.

Daniel Abendroth:

So it's more than double what their current rate is.

Daniel Abendroth:

And so the response I got back is we're doing the budget soon, but it's probably not going to be feasible.

Bryan Entzminger:

I've never really had a customer leave and come back.

Bryan Entzminger:

I had one that had deposit show during a work transition, they came back or they restarted the show.

Bryan Entzminger:

At that point, the rate had gone up by about 20.

Bryan Entzminger:

But part of that was also, we went from monthly billing to per episode.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I just shared with them when I agreed to do this with you and this kind of timeline, I have to make

Bryan Entzminger:

sure that I maintain a certain amount of headroom in my workweek so that I can produce this show for you.

Bryan Entzminger:

So in order to do that, I'm going to have to charge a little bit more because the income is more variable, but so is the workload.

Bryan Entzminger:

And honestly, I'm thinking at this point, I'm wondering if double my monthly rate is actually the right price for intermittent

Bryan Entzminger:

episodes that aren't on a regular schedule, because if I've got my week fully booked in essence, based on what my clients

Bryan Entzminger:

provide me, and I've got a client that provides me a three track one hour episode that needs to be turned around in seven days.

Bryan Entzminger:

Just like everybody else.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's extra weekend work.

Bryan Entzminger:

Depending on the complexity of what they do, that could be 3, 4, 5 hours of editing is especially

Bryan Entzminger:

if it's like a host and two guests or something like that, where it's just a mess to deal with.

Bryan Entzminger:

So I'm actually thinking maybe 20% isn't enough of an upcharge to have an inconsistent workload.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so one of the things that I always say to like, not maybe to clients, but to other editors,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

is that it's not so much that they're paying for.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's that they're paying for a slot in my schedule to edit.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because my time is the most valuable thing I have.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I actually am kind of in the same situation you are Ryan where I'm, I'm getting ready to.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I have an inconsistent client.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I never know when I'm going to get a file.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And the last couple times they sent me something, they were like, oh, can you get this out?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

A's.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I'm like, what do you describe as ASAP?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like there's only so much flexibility here.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If you give it to me on a Thursday.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And usually the answer is, you know, no, I can have it by this date, but I can't have it by this date.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so I've come to a point where I I'm going to have to make a decision, whether to charge them

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

significantly more or to just drop them all together.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And there are so inconsistent though, and it's sometimes such a struggle.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's the other thing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

They want me to cut out, like all the adjectives that they have a legal review department.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So like anything that's interesting gets cut.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so it's incredibly sad to edit as well.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So it's not bringing me joy.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And it's inconsistent.

Jennifer Longworth:

Marie Kondo would tell you that since it doesn't spark joy, you should let

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it go.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Should we have that approach as business owners?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't

Jennifer Longworth:

know, but it works for clothing,

Daniel Abendroth:

paper.

Bryan Entzminger:

I think it works for possessions.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm not sure it works the same.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I want it to work for, I want the work I do to make me happy.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because otherwise, why am I, I mean, I could just go get a job somewhere else.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

A lot

Daniel Abendroth:

less stress that way for different kinds of stress, I guess

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you don't have to own no, because when somebody calls to complain, they're not calling you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Unless you're like, you know, a CEO or something of a company, I am being dragged out.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

What is being dragged mean?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like, I'm not sure

Daniel Abendroth:

what the drag he's referring to is a feeling that we all have one you're doing the work too.

Daniel Abendroth:

You're not being paid enough.

Daniel Abendroth:

The work seems like it's not stopping for you're quickly losing interest and footing for the job because you're on

Daniel Abendroth:

the cusp of being dragged and then you're being dragged.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yes.

Daniel Abendroth:

So it's just like that.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

Not making enough you're putting in the work and just like losing interest.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm just being, you know, they're just, they've got my arm and they're just pulling me

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

along and, and my clothes are all dirty now.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, and it's also,

Daniel Abendroth:

it's a disservice for you.

Daniel Abendroth:

But it's also a disservice for your clients because once you lose interest and you feel this obligation and discouragement about.

Daniel Abendroth:

You're suddenly like not putting in the same effort as you would like the shows that you really love working

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

on Mike, can I come work for you?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And it sounds like you're good to

Daniel Abendroth:

work.

Daniel Abendroth:

You need

Bryan Entzminger:

to listen

Daniel Abendroth:

to the last episode,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

actually, I haven't, I'm sorry everybody I've had COVID so I've been away, but,

Daniel Abendroth:

um, that's no excuse

Daniel Abendroth:

types of people.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So that's, I don't know where I'm going with this.

Bryan Entzminger:

I did want to talk just a second about something that I'm considering that doesn't have anything to do

Bryan Entzminger:

with pricing, but I've considered making my minimum turnaround time for any show no less than the cycle between episodes.

Bryan Entzminger:

So if you have an every other week.

Bryan Entzminger:

I expect two weeks to turn around your episode.

Bryan Entzminger:

And if you've got a once a month show one month, that way that inconsistent workload can be spread out differently.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know if I'm going to go down that path, but it's something I've been thinking about because

Bryan Entzminger:

time management is one of my biggest challenge.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I've started with three to five days, three to five business days.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Turnaround is in my contracts now because you know, stuff happens like you get COVID and sometimes you can't do a quick turnaround.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, sometimes some shows take longer.

Daniel Abendroth:

Whenever I do my next updates, one of my policy changes is going to be how I handle rush.

Daniel Abendroth:

So right now, like I asked for seven days, but the brush Libby doesn't kick in until three days before release.

Daniel Abendroth:

And then there's like another upcharge if it's like within 24 hours.

Daniel Abendroth:

But now like I've done so much, like I'm not even gonna consider.

Daniel Abendroth:

24 hour turnarounds anymore.

Daniel Abendroth:

I

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

have that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I put it, I've been putting in my contracts now that just, this is a Steve Stewart thing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like he says, you have to buy his wife flowers.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I say you have to buy my family dinner at our favorite restaurant.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Now for 24 hour turnaround.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

My favorite restaurant, which is really expensive,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it's called

Jennifer Longworth:

the Fox hole and it's the one restaurant in her community.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

One nice restaurant.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's a one restaurant.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You'd get a steak.

Bryan Entzminger:

Uh, I'm wondering if you guys can help me because we've established that I need to have this conversation.

Bryan Entzminger:

So can you guys kind of coach me through how.

Bryan Entzminger:

How to key up this conversation with my client.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's been put off for over a year now, and this

Daniel Abendroth:

is about the turnaround time.

Daniel Abendroth:

No, no price.

Bryan Entzminger:

I've got this client that I was like, okay, it's COVID, I'm not going to pass that cost on.

Bryan Entzminger:

Now we're potentially looking down the barrel of a 20% increase, helped me get over my junk.

Bryan Entzminger:

It

Daniel Abendroth:

was a point that I thought of earlier and Mike, at some point brought it up.

Daniel Abendroth:

But it's the longer you put it off, the harder the conversation is.

Daniel Abendroth:

And not just because like, you've been doing it, like it's been so long, but also if you should have quote, unquote, should

Daniel Abendroth:

have, like, you felt like your ratio had gone up 20% last year.

Daniel Abendroth:

Does that mean that your rates should be now 40% over what they are?

Daniel Abendroth:

Because you didn't do it last year and every year you're not raising well, yeah, I was thinking like 10, 10.

Daniel Abendroth:

Sure, sure, sure.

Daniel Abendroth:

Oh, okay.

Daniel Abendroth:

Okay.

Daniel Abendroth:

So now, so now you're having a conversation about 20% instead of temporary.

Daniel Abendroth:

So if you are anybody listening, having a hard time, just know, like the, each year you put it off bigger, that

Daniel Abendroth:

kind of the heart of the conversation is because like the more you need to raise just to kind of stay on par

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you also present it as I have.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't know what, how you broach these conversations with clients, but, you know, could

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you just kind of high ball him and be like, wow.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I, this is how much I've raised rates for clients over the past two years or whatever in the

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

past year and do the, give them the 40% number.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And if they come back and say that you can't do that, then give them the break, which is really what you're asking for.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And then they'll feel like they're getting a deal, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like you're cutting them some slack and you'll feel like you're getting.

Daniel Abendroth:

Want to play devil's advocate to that.

Daniel Abendroth:

Cause I think actually you gave me, I had that idea at one time at one of our private meetings.

Daniel Abendroth:

And you gave me some contrary advice that sounds like not to discount your service, not to devalue it like that.

Daniel Abendroth:

Oh

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I don't like to discount surveys at all.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So

Daniel Abendroth:

I'm just throwing that out there.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I was just kind of a counter.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

No, I don't like to discount, but I, I think negotiating is a little bit different

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

than this kind of, I'm not going to give you a coupon.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But since you're a valued client, I'll give you like, you know, a price that I like still.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, the other thing is, are you okay with losing them?

Bryan Entzminger:

Brian?

Bryan Entzminger:

That's a tough one because there are a significant part of.

Bryan Entzminger:

Business revenue.

Bryan Entzminger:

They're probably 30%, so it's not an insignificant.

Bryan Entzminger:

So

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

that always makes me nervous.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, and that's one of the thing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, of course, because one of the things I have one big client and I'm, I've been taking on more clients.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

This is the, we don't have all my eggs in one basket.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause what if there's not an X project, but what if they stop podcasting and it's 30% of your business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Now, what did they decide?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

What did they die tomorrow?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean, we're in a pandemic that could actually, um, so what's the solution to that?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Would you be able to find a new client?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean,

Bryan Entzminger:

potentially

Jennifer Longworth:

replacement value, right.

Jennifer Longworth:

Or replacement costs, how much time and energy would it take for you to replace that?

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, honestly, I don't know how to answer that because I don't have a good marketing

Bryan Entzminger:

program, which is a completely different episode.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Your customer acquisition costs.

Bryan Entzminger:

No, I really don't because I, I probably acquire one or two a year.

Bryan Entzminger:

No, I wonder

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

how many people in the audience know their customer acquisition costs.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Steve Stewart.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's a good way not to tell us what it is.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Just if you know

Daniel Abendroth:

it, I mean, maybe mine would be zero because.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But now you still have to have a conversation with them.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You still have to write a contract.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You still have to like, um, figure out what it is they need.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

There's still work that goes into getting a customer.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I thought that, and I was schooled the other way.

Jennifer Longworth:

Or you can be a moron like me and advertise.

Jennifer Longworth:

Then that gets spend you lots of money and get you nothing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm sure it didn't get you nothing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I got you brand awareness.

Jennifer Longworth:

Yes.

Jennifer Longworth:

I've gotten my brand awareness, but it's the overprice brand away referrals,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

everybody and experience as well.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, and then you pass that you pass those costs to your customers.

Bryan Entzminger:

I guess one thing I, as we were talking, I did remember, and I think we talked about it last week,

Bryan Entzminger:

privately as well in terms of starting that conversation, if that's uncomfortable and you're a member of the podcast

Bryan Entzminger:

editor academy, there's actually an email script in there.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's under the sales scripts section.

Bryan Entzminger:

And that's something that I probably should have remembered was available to use because that will at

Bryan Entzminger:

least help take some of the emotion out of writing.

Bryan Entzminger:

Email.

Bryan Entzminger:

So you don't have to sit there and stare at a blank screen in fear.

Bryan Entzminger:

You can instead take a look at what somebody else wrote and then tweak it to meet your needs.

Bryan Entzminger:

So that's maybe one good way to start the conversation or at least to, to send the information off.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

So what we did last time we raised rates was, went through each client, how much they make

Daniel Abendroth:

getting Bubba, blah, kind of did the numbers.

Daniel Abendroth:

And then we sent out an email being like, here's our new rate?

Daniel Abendroth:

Here's the date that go into effect.

Daniel Abendroth:

If you have any questions, if you want to get on a call to talk about it no more than welcome.

Daniel Abendroth:

My initial reaction was like, I feel like this should be a face-to-face conversation.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like I need to like talk to them on a phone call or I got a video call to explain this and our business coach.

Daniel Abendroth:

And my wife was like, no, we don't need to do that.

Daniel Abendroth:

We just send the email because this isn't a big deal.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like this, our rates are going up.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I think are really kind of on emotional way to start the conversation is by sitting out this email,

Daniel Abendroth:

like I'll break down, like here's the new rates.

Daniel Abendroth:

Here's when it goes into effect, do you have any questions?

Daniel Abendroth:

And then they can reply being like, Hey, blah, blah, blah.

Daniel Abendroth:

And then it kind of have that conversation back and forth.

Daniel Abendroth:

Then I think the easiest way to start it is through just kind of sitting at email.

Daniel Abendroth:

Brian, I'm

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

curious, I'm just thinking about like the mindset side of this.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So how many clients have you raised rates on?

Bryan Entzminger:

Zero, but I've seldom raised rates without an additional value exchange.

Bryan Entzminger:

So most of my, I had the one that went on hiatus and came back on a different production model.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

So they went from every other week to whenever they could get one done.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I've had a couple where adding value added services have impacted the pricing in a way that

Bryan Entzminger:

out of scale with what it takes for me to do it.

Bryan Entzminger:

So it's increased my.

Bryan Entzminger:

As well as increasing my rate, but it's not just like your editing cost is going up to say

Bryan Entzminger:

zero is a little bit unfair, but also true.

Bryan Entzminger:

So really the only one that I've ever raised rates on just purely rates is this quiet that I need to have the conversation with.

Bryan Entzminger:

I did raise rates on her from 19 to 20.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's really that 20 to 21 and now 22 gaps that I need to close.

Bryan Entzminger:

So there's

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

a chance that she knows she's lucky.

Bryan Entzminger:

Everybody knows.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, what is wrong for just raising the entity rates?

Bryan Entzminger:

It's just an unknown.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't like things that I can't plan and strategize and having contingency.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, you've known each

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

other.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, if I can't write it down in my playbook and have like, okay.

Bryan Entzminger:

In case of do this, it's tough.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And Bethany makes a good point.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is she always tries to keep in mind that podcasting is not really an assessment.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We don't owe anyone affordable editing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And she says, she's still working on getting her rates up to where she needs them to be.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And that's true.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So I feel like if you are a podcaster and you are paying for editing, then that is part of hopefully a business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Or your hobby expenses.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so that you can afford that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So I don't think there's anything wrong with raising rates on just editing, but maybe another way to approach this.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Brian is doing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I have one client who actually his podcast editing is paid for by fundraising that he does.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, it's through the university of Texas.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So like they also control the money.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is it a situation where he only has so much left in the budget for the year?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So we had to figure out how I could keep editing for him and he keep the show going without me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Taking a severe pay cut.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I wasn't going to do that essentially.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So one of the things that we decided is that we would drop some services.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So now I only do editing for him and it works out that I'm actually making a little bit more

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

money because it was the other stuff that was more time-consuming oh, Mike you'll disagree with me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

There's surprise there.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So the one thing Mike said was he'll disagree with Bethany only that it is a necessity for the client

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

they're paying you because it isn't necessity.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I, I agree with that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean, they're getting something from it, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And they're not editors.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And then.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You know, but that, I mean, I guess that's a very nuanced conversation that we don't have time for today.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And then Mike's going to go ahead and disagree with me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't know what happened.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, never worked backwards on a service that, um, I can't afford and then let's start pruning shears and whatever.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

In this case, Mike, I was very glad because it was actually, I don't want to do that other stuff.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I just want to.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I got to do what I wanted and make more money at the same time somehow.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But I think that, you know, if you really want to keep a client, I don't think there's anything wrong

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

with just trying to find a creative solution to that.

Jennifer Longworth:

Since someone bring up Steve's comment about I'm about to have the raising rates combo with.

Jennifer Longworth:

So I'm about to have the raising rates combo with few clients.

Jennifer Longworth:

They are invited to schedule a call before the new rate goes into effect in two months.

Jennifer Longworth:

And then another email reminder, two weeks later, and a final the week before is the only way I can

Jennifer Longworth:

stir up the courage to bring up the conversation.

Jennifer Longworth:

It's like, uh,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you already are my client funnel

Daniel Abendroth:

about it and it's out of your hands.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah, no, I like that.

Bryan Entzminger:

This is a question for Steve.

Bryan Entzminger:

Is that something that you schedule at the time that you set your pricing in 11 months, send

Bryan Entzminger:

this first email out or whatever that timing is?

Bryan Entzminger:

Or do you send it out?

Bryan Entzminger:

Like, do you actually send it out two months prior?

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm wondering like, are you working up the current.

Bryan Entzminger:

When you it's

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

random,

Bryan Entzminger:

that's even better.

Bryan Entzminger:

Okay.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm just, I'm trying to think, like, is there a way that I can get myself over the courage by like claiming the wind that I just

Bryan Entzminger:

closed this client to get that prescheduled and forget about it.

Bryan Entzminger:

So, I mean, maybe that's an idea.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So one of the things I've done to initiate conversations with clients more recently,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is have my husband write the emails, take out all the, you know, I tell him to take out this, this, and that

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it's much easier to like, be bossy to him than it is to like sit down and like look at it and write it myself.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So that has been a strategy that has been successful.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I feel like Daniel.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Has that same strategy,

Bryan Entzminger:

right?

Bryan Entzminger:

His emails too.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I call Carrie's husband

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

birthday.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean, you can all can like for like 25 bucks, he'll Rachel's raising rates emails.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I have a good system with my wife, with the uncomfort email.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I'm much more blunt in my email, whereas she has much more empathy, but written in.

Daniel Abendroth:

So like if somebody says like, Hey, I had COVID I'm so sorry, my stuff's late, blah, blah, blah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'm like, oh, okay.

Daniel Abendroth:

But you're like, oh, I'm so sorry.

Daniel Abendroth:

You had COVID.

Daniel Abendroth:

But like, and just like much more.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I, you know, I didn't tell me this is interesting, cause I didn't tell my clients.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I ain't COVID at all.

Daniel Abendroth:

Oh, sure, sure.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'm just going to throw it out.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like whenever a customer, a client, I sent me an email, I'm like, oh, okay, well here's what you need.

Daniel Abendroth:

Whereas Michelle is just like much more conversational.

Daniel Abendroth:

So like she'll start to process.

Daniel Abendroth:

And then I'll go and be like, okay, wait this week, that will kind of go back and forth a little bit and then just send

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it out.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So she's your John.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Exactly.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

It's a lot easier for both of us to do this process.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I don't know what that means for you, Brian.

Daniel Abendroth:

It may be.

Daniel Abendroth:

John can write the email for you to

Bryan Entzminger:

I'll probably just have to start with Steve's template.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah, there you go.

Bryan Entzminger:

Which is again, podcast editor, academy.com.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's just one of the things that's available.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I should remember that it's there, but sometimes I forget, but I think the one question that I'd

Bryan Entzminger:

like to ask for the chat is if you haven't had this rate conversation, when are you going to do it?

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'll pick it while we wait for that to come in.

Daniel Abendroth:

I do want to point out Steve's comments.

Daniel Abendroth:

So we're going back to him raising his rates.

Daniel Abendroth:

And he says he hasn't raised rates in a long time.

Daniel Abendroth:

So like don't beat yourself up.

Daniel Abendroth:

Don't feel guilty if you've been pushing this.

Daniel Abendroth:

I've been doing it.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think Carrie said you were doing it.

Daniel Abendroth:

This is something that we all do.

Daniel Abendroth:

We all struggle with this.

Daniel Abendroth:

I like, there's no reason to feel guilty.

Daniel Abendroth:

This is just some advice and help that we're all trying to take in, in order to make sure that we're getting paid.

Daniel Abendroth:

What we

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

deserve.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Another moment I had.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So in, you know, working for a corporate podcasting company, I was privy to like a sound designer team.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Who got an episode.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And they said, oh, I mean, the, literally the email they said was, this is 30 minutes beyond

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

what we agreed to and we need more money for it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like literally that was her email.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And that was kind of a mind flip for me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like, and then I guess the producer wrote back.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think Andrea mentioned earlier about, um, SAS companies raising our rates.

Daniel Abendroth:

I use Dropbox.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think a lot of people here do they raise their rates last year?

Daniel Abendroth:

They didn't say anything about it.

Daniel Abendroth:

They didn't justify it.

Daniel Abendroth:

They just said, Hey, our rates are going up and we're going to pay it because we have to, I didn't

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

even know they raise rates.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And to be honest with you until you just

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

update my expenses spreadsheet, but yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Oh Bethany, you said she had the same rates since 2018.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

She did a two-step process.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

They went up.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

In January, I will go up a bit more in July and went over well.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Wow.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's awesome.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's encouraging.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That is, did you lose, I'm curious.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Did you lose any clients Bethany while we wait for that for Bethany?

Daniel Abendroth:

I did mine, I think, like I said, in 2020 and went over well as well.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think I had like one or two people kind of question.

Daniel Abendroth:

But nobody left.

Daniel Abendroth:

I mean, that's awesome.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I started doing it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, last year I did one last week.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I still haven't heard back from him, unfortunately, and I didn't, I only raise it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, I raised the rates 25%.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I have some wiggle room in there if he comes back to negotiate, but I still have a couple more I need to do.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I'm just one.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm just putting off.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's not a fun.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

No, it's not a fun conversation at all, but it's a

Daniel Abendroth:

fun outcome.

Daniel Abendroth:

If everything goes well,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it is a fun outcome.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It is.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And like, this is probably honestly the one in putting off, this is one of the shows.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It takes me the least amount of time to do, even though the rates aren't super high, but I have, I

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

like, you know, it takes me like an hour to do her.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so like, I put a lot of money in my pocket.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I do it myself.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And, you know, I get paid a lot an hour to do her show, but simply because they haven't raised rates in

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

so long, I feel like it's, it goes back to that thing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like, is it complacency, you know?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, oh yes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm dragged.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

All right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I just don't like people rejecting me, ultimately.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I think.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because it's not one of those things where I hate the work or it's hard to do or whatever is this.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't want her to go somewhere else.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think that she's one that potentially could

Jennifer Longworth:

Netflix just raise their rates too.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Everything's going up actually,

Bryan Entzminger:

right.

Bryan Entzminger:

There is the number one reason to raise your rates as a podcast editor.

Bryan Entzminger:

If Netflix is raising their rates, then you need to write.

Bryan Entzminger:

Otherwise, how will you listen through all those shows and find all of the errors in the dialogue

Bryan Entzminger:

editing to make sure your skills are up to snuff.

Bryan Entzminger:

Are we ready for the pod?

Bryan Entzminger:

Next question of the day did, did, was there anything we needed to hit that we didn't?

Daniel Abendroth:

Uh, did you want to come back to Bethany's response carry?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

She said, no, some of my clients are still on hourly.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I was worried about them because I went from $30 an hour to $50 an hour, which is actually.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You know, I would go up from that when I guess she said she was getting her rates where they need to be all right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'll stop.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

The flat rate.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Clients felt easier to pitch to, but nobody left me, which is, has me questioning that I'm still too low.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And yep.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Where is Brittany Felix today?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because she would say, yeah, that's absolutely true because people need your rate.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

What does she say?

Bryan Entzminger:

50%.

Jennifer Longworth:

Yeah, but if like they're still out until somebody says no, but everyone

Jennifer Longworth:

keeps saying yes, you can still keep going up.

Jennifer Longworth:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And that's what I do with new clients, but I still would like to have the conversation eventually to get everyone on flat rate per

Daniel Abendroth:

episode.

Daniel Abendroth:

I like the flat rate perhaps.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I do monthly because I don't want to spend the time calculating every month, the way, how much their invoices.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Hourly is eventually like this one client show.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If I were to charge her hourly, I wouldn't make as much money because it only takes me an hour.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah, I do want to hit Mike's last comment.

Bryan Entzminger:

Not only are they raising, he's talking about Netflix, not only are they raising their rates, they aren't raising the quality.

Bryan Entzminger:

In fact, I would argue being a Netflix.

Bryan Entzminger:

That the quality has actually degraded over the past couple of years, and yet the cost is going up, which

Bryan Entzminger:

makes me feel like maybe I shouldn't be scared to raise my rates since the quality of what I'm doing is at minimum

Bryan Entzminger:

as good as what I did before and in my opinion, better.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

In my ever so humble opinion of my own abilities.

Bryan Entzminger:

I think it's gotten better.

Daniel Abendroth:

I don't think anybody argue with you on that

Bryan Entzminger:

one?

Bryan Entzminger:

Oh, you've heard the early stuff.

Bryan Entzminger:

Is that what you're saying?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Uh, I remember when I thought I was so good.

Daniel Abendroth:

Oh my goodness.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

Are we ready for quad?

Bryan Entzminger:

Next question of the day?

Bryan Entzminger:

Yes.

Bryan Entzminger:

Are we ever, Jennifer says here our special guest, I need a number from one to five.

Bryan Entzminger:

So nobody has a leg up on the question.

Bryan Entzminger:

Number three.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's

Daniel Abendroth:

a magic number.

Bryan Entzminger:

Oh, this is too easy.

Bryan Entzminger:

All right.

Bryan Entzminger:

If you had to teach a class on what's on one thing, what would you teach?

Jennifer Longworth:

Change it because we all know the

Bryan Entzminger:

answer and it can't be podcasting.

Bryan Entzminger:

How's that

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

can't be podcasting.

Bryan Entzminger:

So Daniel you'd teach karate.

Bryan Entzminger:

No, I would be

Daniel Abendroth:

hilarious.

Daniel Abendroth:

I have no idea what I be doing.

Jennifer Longworth:

Networking, like how and why?

Jennifer Longworth:

And I did it at pod Fest origins, and

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I've told her she should teach networking.

Bryan Entzminger:

I would probably teach a class on how to use Excel to do things you never thought Excel should do.

Bryan Entzminger:

Oh,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I can see that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I would actually teach researching your family tree.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Ooh.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

With a focus on understanding, um, how to gather information from a census dot.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Oh, wow.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because they can tell a stories.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's crazy.

Bryan Entzminger:

Daniel, I'm coming up blank.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm thinking like basic PHP.

Bryan Entzminger:

My sequel.

Daniel Abendroth:

Very basic.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

Outdated PHP practices.

Bryan Entzminger:

Steve says personal finance basics in one.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Daniel.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I know there's a secret talent there somewhere we're not talking about it may not be suitable for a family show.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So

Bryan Entzminger:

Steve, I would love to see you have a basic business finance class.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's something I'm always wondering from the podcast editors academy.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah, I suppose we're not supposed to host this show and ask other people to do stuff though.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's what I do.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's my skill.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's what Carrie could teach a class on how to ask

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you to do stuff for me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Oh dear.

Jennifer Longworth:

Well, Andrea says singing and Helen said I would teach people how to pick things up with your

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

feet valuables.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Mike Wilkerson said I would toss paper airplanes in Brian's class.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Most everyone would.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And he said he would teach people how to raise the rates of their karate instruction, karate, karate, course, whatever.

Jennifer Longworth:

I can teach people how to raise their.

Bryan Entzminger:

It was the joke based on Daniel's thing.

Bryan Entzminger:

I

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

completely ruined the joke, which is probably why.

Bryan Entzminger:

Sorry, Carrie,

Daniel Abendroth:

if people are watching live, then they got appreciate the joke before it was ruined.

Daniel Abendroth:

So you should join us two weeks and join us alive on the podcast.

Daniel Abendroth:

Editors mastermind on Facebook, just follow the page and get notified when we go live.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And she's only 9:05 PM.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Eastern time.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And, and if you, oh, I

Bryan Entzminger:

was just gonna mention, uh, I'm really excited about the episode that we have planned for next week.

Bryan Entzminger:

We're still working out some of the details.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm sorry.

Bryan Entzminger:

In two weeks, we want to talk podcast websites for podcast editors, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

So what needs to be on your site?

Bryan Entzminger:

What doesn't need to be on your side?

Bryan Entzminger:

What are some basic best practices.

Bryan Entzminger:

We're hoping that maybe we can bring on a guest who will do a live tear down of our sites here, like just a short

Bryan Entzminger:

one, just to sell us all the stuff we're doing wrong so that you can all learn from what we've done wrong.

Bryan Entzminger:

And then hopefully a way that we can connect people to that person to take it further.

Bryan Entzminger:

If they want to go further, because building websites, that's not my core skill.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's something I can do, but it's not a thing I'm great at.

Bryan Entzminger:

We want to bring on somebody.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's great at that to help give us a leg up.

Bryan Entzminger:

So I'm really excited about.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm still working on the guests, but I'm really

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

hopeful.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And if you guys know any money that you would recommend, or that works on your website as a podcast editor in L a hundred, you can

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

cut this out in post, but just leave it in the chat and we will.

Daniel Abendroth:

Do you the rest or email us at, uh, Amiya

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

podcasts, editors, mastermind.com and, um, Daniel, if they would like to

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

be a guest on the show, how do they go about I'm doing

Daniel Abendroth:

that?

Daniel Abendroth:

I get a good do is go to podcast editors, mastermind.com/be a guests.

Daniel Abendroth:

Fill out the form.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think it's finally, my email system has got itself sorted, so it's not automatically marking it as spam.

Daniel Abendroth:

So there's a good chance that it won't go to my spam folder.

Daniel Abendroth:

Before I see it is that

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

it is that all that

Bryan Entzminger:

stuff we need to do.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm just lost.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know what to do if it doesn't go to Daniel's spam folder.

Daniel Abendroth:

Fair

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

enough.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, we appreciate all of you being here with us alive.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Don't forget to join us for the next one in two weeks.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cut that out in post.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I am Carrie Coffield.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Eric, you can find me@yayapodcasting.com.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'm Daniel Abendroth.

Daniel Abendroth:

You can find me@rothmedia.audio.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm Brian.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know why you'd want to, but if you do, you can find me@toptieraudio.com.

Bryan Entzminger:

And next to me is

Jennifer Longworth:

the bourbon barrel podcasting.com.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And we will see you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Uh, so