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Health Fundamentals for Humans: Lucas Rockwood on PYP 612
Episode 6123rd December 2024 • The Plant Yourself Podcast • Dr Howie Jacobson
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Well, it's getting to be that time of life when I begin to realize that I'm mortal. Next year I turn 60, which, according to the Jewish blessing "May you live to a hundred and twenty," puts me smack dab in middle age.

I've been whole food plant-based for decades, and I'm pretty athletic. I meditate, and I keep a journal just in case I ever get the urge to write in it. I drink water, avoid tobacco products, drink about a quart of alcohol a year, and wear a bike helmet.

So you'd think that I'd be going into the second half of life all guns a-blazing, ready to tackle any and all challenges.

But you'd be wrong.

The area where I'm weakest is flexibility.

I'm working harder and harder to put my socks on. When I'm playing Ultimate or Padel, I have trouble bending down to catch a disc or return a ball.

I'm worried about turning into a caricature of an old man: shuffling around, complaining about the weather and my rheumatism.

I decided to do something about it.

Maybe I even mentioned this to my wife, because in no time my Facebook feed was swollen with ads for online stretching programs.

One caught my eye, because the presenter seemed real and down-to-earth. So I bought a "Science of Stretching" course from Lucas Rockwood, founder of YogaBody.

Then I realized that I knew Lucas.

In fact, he'd hosted me on his Age Less / Live More Podcast way back in March, 2014, where I talked about my goal of turning the world into a giant food forest. (Ah, permaculture :).

We'd first met, in fact, about 8 years before that, when we were both learning the ins and outs of digital marketing.

And one thing that caught my eye was that Lucas had settled in Barcelona, less than 30 km from where I live. So I reached out, and he graciously agreed to be a guest on Plant Yourself. I shlepped my recording equipment into the city, and we met at his studio and had a really good conversation.

Mostly we talk about how to maintain healthspan, particularly in the second half of life.

Lucas shares lots of valuable insights:

  • how our athleticism might evolve as we age
  • the balance between training and injury prevention
  • how to get the benefits of yoga if someone (ahem) isn't crazy about actually doing yoga
  • the power of intentional breath practices for regulating the nervous system
  • the science of flexibility training (and why it's more or less unknown in most gyms)

Lucas gives us the three principles of flexibility practice, and shares why most of the stretching we do doesn't actually increase our range of motion.

And he shares three types of breathing and how to apply each one in practice and in daily life.

We also cover some of the problems in the yoga community, including sexual exploitation. As you can see, our "range of conversation" parallels Lucas' own range of motion, and hopefully the one that I'm developing as I continue to deepen my own practice.

If you plan on living a full and vibrant life, and you're approaching A Certain Age, this episode may serve you — as it did me — as a wakeup call.

Links

YogaBody.com

Lucas' Age Less / Live More Podcast

My appearance on the Age Less / Live More Podcast

Job's Body: A Handbook for Bodywork, by Dean Juhan

Transcripts

Speaker:

So I've been getting creakier and creakier in my body over the years.

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I pride myself on staying very athletic, but that athleticism tends to be running or

strength stuff and very little flexibility.

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So when you see me like get up from the floor or bend down to pick something up or indeed

bend down to catch a low frisbee throw.

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you'll see on my face that I'm not very happy with that.

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And my movements feel pretty jerky and uncoordinated and limited.

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And it's been getting worse.

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So I saw on a WhatsApp ad the science of stretching and checked it out and looked good.

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And it wasn't too expensive.

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So I thought, all right, what I need is someone who's going to make me do this stuff every

single day.

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And then I realized that the guy who was running it, Lucas Rockwood, is actually someone

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that I've known for almost 20 years.

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We met when he was an up and coming entrepreneur and I was teaching digital marketing and

we worked together a little bit then.

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And then he became extremely successful with his company, Yoga Body.

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And he has a podcast about health span, about aging gracefully.

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And since I've been in the health field, he had me on his podcast.

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And this week.

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I went to visit him because I realized we're neighbors.

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He has a studio and a home in Barcelona.

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So we got together, had a wonderful time, discovered all these weird parallelisms in our

lives.

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In addition to both moving to Barcelona, I took out my little camera to record and he

goes, look, I've got the exact same camera.

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I came in wearing my minimalist zero shoes and he's wearing his zero shoes as well.

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So

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Clearly, we've been moving in a lot of the same directions.

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Big difference is he is very bendy and I am not.

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So we talked about the two biggest things that can help anyone, not just athletes, not

just yoga people, but any human being in their life.

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One is maintaining or regaining flexibility, the ability to move within a normal range of

motion and breath, the ability to use breath to both diagnose

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the state of our nervous system and influence it.

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And both of these are hugely important for anyone who wants to be an effective leader.

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I pushed Lucas on this a little bit about whether flexibility in the body can translate to

flexibility in in thinking and acting.

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He kind of rejected that, which I get.

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It's not really science based.

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I think there might be something to it.

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But in any case, we do talk about the practice of becoming more flexible is also the

practice of putting yourself in slightly uncomfortable situations and being able to hold

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those physically, which definitely in my experience and.

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experience a lot of people I've talked to translates into the ability to hold discomfort

and move through challenging situations with grace and with effectiveness.

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So if you want to watch, we're setting up in Lucas's studio.

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Otherwise, you can just listen the way you might normally do it.

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And I'll talk to you again at the end of the episode.

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Without further ado.

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Lucas Rockwood, welcome to the Plant Yourself podcast.

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Thanks so much.

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Happy to be here.

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Or should I say thank you for welcoming me to Yoga Body?

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Yeah, exactly.

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So we're going to talk about.

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flexibility, breathing, lots of stuff that's important for humans, for people interested

in performance.

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But first, tell us about yourself and what we're doing here in person.

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It's been years, I think, since I've done an in-person interview.

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Yeah.

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So just coincidentally, we've reconnected.

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How it was on my podcast years ago, I think it was eight years ago, nine years ago,

something like that.

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And I've been based here in Barcelona now for 15, 16 years, so a huge portion of my life.

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And we're sitting here in Yoga Body Studio.

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which pre-COVID we had a really active membership base and now we have a very active

membership base but mostly digitally so mostly around the world and my work really focuses

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around healthspan helping people live their best lives in the second half of their life

and with simple things like mobility, range of motion, strength, basic range of stuff,

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know nothing no bodybuilder or anything like this, cardiovascular health and a lot of

stress management and nutrition and stress management specifically using

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breathing exercises to help people modulate their nervous systems.

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Gotcha.

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And what do you know about this?

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Because you're only 23 obviously.

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Well, I guess, know, there's different phases of life.

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you know, in my 20s...

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I should make clear that was a joke.

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Whatever you're doing is working.

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Well, In my 20s, I was very much into the performative side of yoga, standing on my hands

and, you know, tricks and

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accomplishments and in traditional yoga, it's similar to martial arts in that there are

not belts, but there are sequential series and things like this.

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And as I've gotten older with kids and career and different objectives and optimizations,

like a lot of people, I think your priorities change.

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And really now my focus is on what we often call becoming like a lifestyle athlete,

meaning training, not to stand on a podium or to look amazing, although that would be

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great, but really just training to be able to enjoy your life.

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were talking about

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you know, paddle boarding, biking with the kids, carrying luggage, having energy.

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And I often just think about squeezing as much life from your life as you can while we're

here.

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That's really what our focus is on.

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Yeah.

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And, so I was very athletic throughout my youth and then I had kids and kind of dropped

off.

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Yeah.

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Like sort of my athletic midlife crisis was to become an ultra runner.

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Interesting.

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Which it gave me a lot of fun benefits mentally, but it kind of broke me down.

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Yeah.

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Physically.

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Yeah, it's always a, everything has a push and a pull and everything has a heads and a

tails.

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if you're gonna look at something in terms of cardiovascular circulation and benefits,

it's very hard to find something that's as beneficial as running.

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And then this exact same conversation, if you want to find something that creates more

injuries per year, again, it's going to be running.

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And so it's one of those things, you just have to find out what works for you and what

works for you at different ages is also different.

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And I've come to realize that the whole concept of cross training was not to create this

Ironman triathlete, but was to keep people in middle age and beyond not broken.

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so hyper specializing on anything, whether it's yoga or running or cycling, it's very

difficult to maintain in the second half of life.

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diversity of stuff in terms of physical activity really just helps you to not get

repetitive stress injuries more than anything.

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And the two things that I discovered could mitigate the running and I would discover this

on like 50 mile, 50 K races is the imbalances.

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Sure.

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And know, to need to like, but you know, in the running community, we get lots of advice

about like stretching.

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You see people with their legs up here on the fence before a run, or people who say no

stretching at all, and the breathing to address parts of the body.

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By the time I was like, can't do that anymore, I really felt kind of broken.

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I could demo what it looks like when I try to tie my shoe.

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This idea of cross...

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training just as sort of mitigation of everything's heads or tails.

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Whatever we're doing if we do it to excess has a downside.

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The important thing to remember too is can happen with yoga, it can happen with dance.

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know yoga teachers who push things too far in terms of...

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We always use the term B-R-O-M, so basic range of motion, and a lot of friends and

colleagues push things too far, putting legs behind heads and doing crazy stuff, and that

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also has implications.

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I know a woman my age, has had double hip replacement, super athletic, super, but she

pushed her joints too far.

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So whether it's yoga or running, there's always extremes, and especially at this junction

of...

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social media and things like that there really is a pull towards extremes.

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People go from doing nothing to wanting to do an Iron Man or you know you see these crazy

people online a marathon a day for 50 days and you're just thinking maybe not maybe that's

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not the best idea if you're looking for joint health long term.

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Yeah, and so think so much of it comes from, at least for me, came from this desire to

prove myself.

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And it wasn't so much online approval.

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I haven't been a big online social media guy with like thousands of people, which I know

like people who've gotten successful at that, becomes a little self-reinforcing in a bad

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way.

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But just to be like...

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to be thought of like when I was just sort of casually mentioned that I had run a 50K that

weekend, like I liked, my God, I did it, right?

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As opposed to saying like, you know, I gardened for 30 minutes.

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I didn't get the same compliment.

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Yeah.

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A lot of it too is just like the fighting against the dying of the light.

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think a lot of it too, you just get to this point where,

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you want to make sure that you're still capable of doing things.

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You look in the mirror and you're wondering, I'm getting older and can I still do things?

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And whether it's social or not, think even if we were all alone, think we'd still try to

climb mountains and these sorts of things.

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And it's all fine as long as you don't blow out your joints and do permanent damage.

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So, I mean, one of the things I love about YogaBody, and I've been following you closely

for about a month since I just signed up, know, forgetting that we have history, just

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like, this looks good.

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I need the science of stretching, is how stripped down it is in terms of, and again, these

are not bad things, the spiritual aspects, the chanting.

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You just promoted a yoga training course.

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You have this great line.

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It's like most yoga training people sing songs and eat lentils, but they don't

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how to teach yoga.

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So how did you, can you talk a little bit about your yoga trajectory?

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Like where did you start and how did you sort of create the system and the ideology that

you have?

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Yeah, I guess the impression that people always have is that I'm a heretic or that I don't

like this stuff.

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And actually the opposite is true.

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I grew up in a really traditional, I came up in a really traditional yoga path and I spent

time in India and all the Sanskrit and studies and yoga sutras.

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And at one point I was trying to memorize the sutras.

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to only count in Sanskrit in classes and a big part of it is just like time with students

and perspectives change and so a big part of my early teaching and a big part of what

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you'll see people teaching is just when we have this focus on ourselves and we think this

is a stage for me to present the things that I love.

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It's almost like showing someone around your home.

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It's a wonderful experience for your brother or your dad but for the general public they

don't really want to see your home.

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They want to see their home and with that in mind I started saying

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yoga as a tool and as a service and I started listening to feedback from students and the

feedback that I got was your interests are cool I'm here for my hips or you know your

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Sanskrit terms are fine can you just count in English or in Spanish so I can understand

what you're saying and this convoluted three hour a day practice that you're doing is

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great but do you have something that I could do in 15 minutes and with kids and

responsibilities and I just started to understand it's just maturing in life and in the

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same way that like a collegiate athlete

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Might train three hours a day sleep three hours a day and then have a social life That's

really great and that just doesn't translate into anything that's applicable to anybody in

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the normal world And so just started really getting focused on like how can I be of

service?

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How can we be effective working with people and with that in mind?

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We just start stripping things down and focusing on meeting people where they're at

whether it's stress management whether it's tight hamstrings whether it's recovering from

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injuries and No big surprise, but we started I really have a much bigger audience thought

that I didn't have a successful teaching

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practice and doing things the other way.

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But I guess as a teacher, you do want people to connect at some level of scale.

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It's exciting to see that messages and teachings resonate.

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And it's not so exciting to feel like you're indoctrinating people into a lifestyle that

you love.

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At least for me, it's never been something that lit me up.

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It's always much more exciting for me to see people finding their own path.

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Yeah.

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There's a lot of the yoga that I've done.

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think the view is that it's the spiritual aspects that are really important.

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yet I found like it was actually through the physical that I gained access to like

emotional healing as opposed to like, okay, I'm just going to notice my body and achieve

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some sort of bliss.

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It was the physical that really took care of, OK, this is a good position for you.

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Hold this for so long that it kind of opened me up.

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was almost like instead of banging on the treasure chest with a hammer of spirituality,

it's like, let's let the body open it up and then things can kind of unfold.

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Yeah, it's really confusing to like what it what is spirituality?

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Well, it's 10 different things to 10 different people.

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For some people, it's a structured religiosity, something you could easily define for a

lot of people.

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It's a lot more squishy.

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People have spiritual experiences with their children and their dog and hiking and people

have spiritual experiences in temples and yoga studios.

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And it's all fine.

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But it's very difficult to I just think it's very difficult to decide or define that for

someone else.

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And I find that one of the best ways to like have a spiritual

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is like stop trying, just like live your life and people will have those moments on their

own and the forcing of spirituality onto so many different things I think is where people

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get into trouble, you know, it's like you see it lot in politics, the forced spirituality,

it's always the people presenting themselves as the most spiritual who just have these

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like atrocious lives, you know, and the same is true in most places, people who are openly

proselytizing are usually the people who are struggling the most to live a virtuous life.

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So yeah, so I want to get to the you know stretching and breathing, but I do want to kind

of maybe we'll cut this out.

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Sure No Like yoga has gotten a really bad reputation for sexual exploitation for for

psychological abuse What do you see and how do you how do you stay clear of that?

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Yeah Yeah, I've written about this a lot.

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I've had like campaigns we did fundraised back in the days and

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you know, really try to change things.

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for sure, so sexual exploitation has been rife in the yoga community since the earliest

days.

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Some of my teachers, after their death...

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big problems on video, groping women, all of the above, and worse and worse.

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There are legal action against people I've trained with.

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And it's really hard.

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I guess part of it is that this is not unique to yoga.

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It happens everywhere from the tippity top, top, top, and everyone knows who I'm talking

about all the way down, from politicians to school leaders to everything in between to

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church leaders and all of the above.

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I guess the reason that it's so common in community settings, whether that's like a

Catholic church, which I grew up in,

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or whether it's a yoga studio or whether it's a university professor student dynamic is a

big part of it is when somebody's in a we call it the Seeker's Dilemma and the Seeker's

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Dilemma is me in my early 20s with a health crisis with my umbilical cord in hand walking

around New York City trying to find a place to plug in and I'm looking at the raw food

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community and I'm looking at yoga studios and I'm looking at

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meditation, Vipassana meditation, I'm just looking for somewhere to plug in, because I'm

lost.

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And when you're in that position, you're susceptible to all kinds of things, ideology,

group think, gurus, financial exploitation, and because of male female, dynamic sexual

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exploitation comes into play as well.

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And of course, this is like 95 % male to female, but there's loads and loads of female to

male as well.

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It's just a lot less, it's a lot more dangerous for women to play in that space, but they

absolutely do.

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And there's quite high profile cases of women exploiting men in Australian yoga scene and

a bunch of other places.

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And I would love to say that it really comes down to something like virtuous about myself,

but really it's just, I grew up in a very, very conservative family.

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And like, it's just unthinkable for me to behave in that way.

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I am agnostic, but still I think that God will strike me down and I will burn in the

flames of hell if I were to treat women badly.

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And so I could pretend to explain it another way, but that's what's going on for me,

Howie.

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You you can take the boy from church, the church, some of these echoes, you there's a

real...

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One of the beautiful things about any kind of religious structure, ideology, and whether

it's plant-based or Catholic Church or whatever it might be, is it just gives you a

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framework for looking at the world.

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And of course it's so fatally flawed, just on its head it's flawed, but it's still helpful

to have something to lean into.

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It's helpful to have something to lean into.

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Like, I'm going to try to do as little harm as I can in the environment, or I'll try to do

as little harm as I can in my family.

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And of course we get it wrong, but yeah, if I had to give someone credit, it be my father

and the Catholic Church.

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probably.

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Yeah.

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Cool.

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So let's get into how you can, know, what you do and the yoga that you teach can help

people second half of life.

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I'm almost 60, so I'm on the cusp of the second half of my life.

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By my math.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Usually when people come to me, they're most interested in flexibility.

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That's one of the things that I've had the most traction and it's been a big part of my

story was flexibility.

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So the story I always tell is I had a health crisis in my early 20s in New York City and

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And like a lot of people, I ended up in a yoga studio.

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And it was a hot yoga studio, which means we had to take our shirt off.

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Everyone took their shirt off.

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And so I would take my shirt off.

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And I'm sitting there in the front row of the studio in Spring Street in New York City.

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And I was defining myself as sort of a bloated white whale.

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And I'd sit there and look at myself.

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just, you know, what happened to me?

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And stiff.

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My knees were up really high.

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And I was the youngest guy in the class.

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I was about 23 at the time.

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And I just had this moment.

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I realized.

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It's very, very clear what happens next.

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If I don't fix this, things go downhill.

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And like a lot of things, whether you're looking at nutrition or you're looking at

business or you're looking at...

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It's very hard to get clarity in terms of what actually works.

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You see people getting results, right?

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You see people getting results.

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They're eating better and they're getting results.

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They're going to yoga class, they're getting results.

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They read some business book and they're getting traction.

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And it's not working for you.

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And...

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you know, there's so many different conflicting advice.

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Somebody goes online, I always use nutrition as the go-to because it's so confusing for

people.

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You go online, it's like, eat all meat or I eat no meat or I eat ketogenic or I eat all

carbs and it's so, you know, I fight diabetes by having no carbs or I fight diabetes by

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eating 80 % carbs and you know, all of these things exist in any case when it came to

flexibility.

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I realized it was just like this black box and I was like, why is this so complicated?

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You can go to any gym in the world and you'll get pretty good advice in terms of strength

training.

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There's a little bit of arguments, like, you know, is it, I don't know, are your sets,

sets of five or sets of six to eight or eight to 12?

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Who really cares?

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It's not that big of a difference.

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With flexibility, it was everything from it's all in your head to stretch for 10 seconds,

stretch before, stretch after, stretch before and after.

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Put weights on your knees, don't put weights on your knees.

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And it was just so confusing and I realized there's just absolutely no way this could be

that complicated.

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And what I realized is most people just are not optimizing for this because no one really

cares.

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The bodybuilders really care about putting on muscle and there's this objective thing.

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flexibility, there was really only a few groups who really cared and that was martial arts

because they needed to these high kicks.

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Dancers because they just can't...

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they can't move.

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Dancers can't move if they don't have range of motion.

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And then yoga students, but even the yoga students, like you mentioned at the top of our

chat, they're really confused in a lot of cases about what they're actually doing.

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And a lot of people, especially back in the day, were like embarrassed to have a

conversation about flexibility because they thought we should be talking about Vishnu or

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like Hindu deities or chanting the Gayatri mantra or something.

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And I get a lot of pushback like that's so superficial.

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was like, call me superficial.

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For me, I would do a meditation.

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and I would like go to a zen thing and I would literally get whacked for fidgeting.

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It's like, boy, if my hips were just more flexible, then I would not, you know, the guy

would not smack me.

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Exactly, exactly.

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Could you give me a little bit of insight in terms of opening my hips?

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In any case, I just started having closed door conversations and what I realized it wasn't

a big mystery.

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People just weren't talking about it.

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But in the martial arts world, they talk about it.

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In the dance world, they talk about it and they have very specific practices and they're

really not that complicated.

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And I'll just share with everybody what it is because it's no big mystery.

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The first thing

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you should relax when you're stretching and the more relaxed you are the more your muscles

and the fascia that surrounds them often referred to as like myofascial units the more

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:

they'll relax and when people first hear that they go are you sure and I just help people

look at the other side and it makes them understand right away so if you're doing bicep

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:

curls and your trainer said relax as much as you can when you're doing bicep curls you go

no no no I should contract as much as I can great so we're doing the opposite we're trying

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to lengthen instead of contracting those

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They're called sarcomeres, these smallest contractile units.

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:

You need to relax them.

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:

As basic as that is, every week I spend hours talking to people about this.

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:

So I've gotten conflicting advice about that around putting yourself in a stretch where

your agonists are tight.

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:

Right?

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:

And so nothing I've done in the science of stretching.

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:

No, this is also true.

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:

Yeah, this is also true.

289

:

And again, we can come back to the strength analogy because what I just shared with

people, let's say someone's doing bicep curls and they're doing five sets of six to eight

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:

reps or something like that.

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:

Very common practice that people do.

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:

to do that twice a week.

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:

So this muscle group is gonna get let's say 10 sets of six to eight twice a week.

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:

And someone else says, you know what, that's really not necessary because I do pull-ups

and pull-ups sort of by proxy hit my biceps and I do pull-ups three times a week and I

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:

don't really work in sets of six to eight because I can't do six to eight.

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:

So I do like two or three pull-ups and do this three times a week and the answer is yes

and.

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:

Both things are true.

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:

Both things are true.

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:

But from an efficiency standpoint, if your goal was to build bigger biceps, you look at

the science, you talk to the bodybuilders, you talk to whoever you want to do, the better

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:

thing is going to be twice a week, six to eight reps, probably to failure, something

around there.

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:

And so it's not that other things don't work.

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:

This idea of contracting your glutes to relax your hamstrings absolutely works.

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:

But if your objective is, I'm approaching 60, I'm having trouble with a full butt to heel

squat, I'm worried about my lower back, and I'd like to fix this before I'm 60,

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:

If that's the priority, then there's a different calculus that comes into play.

305

:

And this is where a lot of things with strength and flexibility get really confused.

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:

People will see, for example, a great example of this is calisthenics athletes.

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:

It's a huge movement right now.

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:

Bar stars, and they do dips and pull-ups and handstands and push-ups.

309

:

And they're incredibly fit, and they often work out for two or three hours a day.

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:

And it's just a very inefficient way to train.

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:

It's awesome, but just not really practical for...

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:

normal people who have families and responsibilities.

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:

So in any city in the world, you can go find these calisthenics athletes who just have

really exceptional range of motion strength, all of the above.

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:

But if you look at their training routine, you can't replicate it.

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:

You can't make it work.

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:

You don't have the disposable time or access to any of it.

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:

And so if you're looking at an efficiency standpoint and you are, especially with

flexibility, I find that people are using it.

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:

They have a very clear objective in mind.

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:

with other things.

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:

You mentioned ultra running, with cycling.

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:

even the calisthenics athletes, enjoy the thing.

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:

Meaning, going to the beach and doing pull-ups and hanging out and high-fiving their

friends, stretching doesn't have that cool factor.

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:

You're not running 50 kilometers and eating bananas at the aid stations.

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:

It's just you and your living room and people want to get it done.

325

:

And so with that in mind, I often just encourage people to make a small commitment, make

it daily, get really clear on your goal and any of the other stuff you do, awesome.

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:

But make this a supplement.

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:

The analogy I often use is like a vitamin D supplement.

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:

Take your vitamin D and probably go out in the sun sometimes too, you know.

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:

Don't skip the sun, but it's meant to support, not become a destination.

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:

Support whatever activities you like to do, not become a destination in and of itself.

331

:

Yeah, because that's one thing, like I would do these yoga classes and it would be like an

hour, typically an hour long class.

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:

like nine minutes in, I'm like fantasizing about Shravastava.

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:

It's like...

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:

other people, I look around and people are like, they're having fun and I'm not.

335

:

Yeah.

336

:

So I really like, like, so in science of stretching, it's 15 to 17 minute videos.

337

:

Yeah.

338

:

And it's pretty uncomfortable at times.

339

:

And then I'm done.

340

:

Yeah.

341

:

Yeah, I think I appreciate sharing that because I think it's really important for people

to get honest about what they actually like doing because so many people are trying to

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:

force themselves to do something that they just hate and it with fitness.

343

:

It happens more than anything and you know, like tonight on Wednesdays, I teach an hour

long class and the people who come to that hour long class, they love it.

344

:

But you're right.

345

:

The vast majority of people don't want to do an hour long class.

346

:

They don't need to teach themselves to love it.

347

:

They just need to figure out a way to make it work.

348

:

Similar again, I come back to the food analogy.

349

:

A lot of people just don't like

350

:

to cook.

351

:

Figure out a way to work around that by you know do meal prep in advance or find a way to

get healthy takeout or whatever it is.

352

:

You don't have to love to cook in life it's it's okay you can figure out a way to make it

work.

353

:

All right, so number one was, yeah, wet noodle.

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:

yeah.

355

:

So there's three principles of for stretching.

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:

The first one is wet noodle.

357

:

And the basic concept is your muscles will strengthen best when contracted and they'll

relax, they'll stretch best when they're relaxed.

358

:

So when you're in a stretch, a forward fold, a squat, whatever it might be, the ideal when

you're when you're stretching for flexibility, there are different reasons to stretch like

359

:

warming up and things.

360

:

But when you're stretching for flexibility, we call it wet noodle, like an overcooked

spaghetti noodle relax your body as

361

:

much as possible.

362

:

The second concept is a breathing concept.

363

:

It's a breathing technique called breathe to relax and inside your muscles.

364

:

So if we were to think about your hamstrings, for example, there are these little sensory

organs, organelles, and they're called muscle spindles and they're like to think of like a

365

:

filament in a light bulb and it's a sensory organ.

366

:

So it's like a trip wire and inside your hamstrings that sensory organelle is worried that

I'm going to stretch either too far

367

:

or too fast.

368

:

And when that little sensory organ gets that signal, it sends a impulse to your spinal

cord and then back to your hamstrings.

369

:

And that was a very complicated way to explain that.

370

:

We have something called the stretch reflex or your myotactic reflex.

371

:

And essentially that hamstring that you tried to relax starts fighting you and it goes,

doosh, doosh, doosh.

372

:

And many of you have experienced that before when you go in a forward bend, you just feel

it's almost like this stomach churning feeling where you hate the feel, you hate the

373

:

stretch and you want it to stop.

374

:

and that physical resistance where you feel like you're coming up against your own body is

a real thing and it's a nervous system response.

375

:

It's an electrical response.

376

:

It's actually not a hard stop.

377

:

It feels like a hard stop but it's not.

378

:

So to help dampen that down there's a bunch of things you can do.

379

:

You can just stay in the pose longer.

380

:

That helps.

381

:

practice more consistently that helps habituation helps but breathing is the most

effective way especially in the short term and so we do a very specific breathing

382

:

technique where we breathe in through our nose to the count of four and then we breathe

out through our mouth with a ha sound to get kind of a visceral release and on a very

383

:

simple level it gives us something to focus on it slows our respiratory rate to about

three and half three breaths per minute which promotes a parasympathetic response it makes

384

:

you kind of sleepy but on a really biomechanical level it just helps it

385

:

off that dampened down that stretch reflex you can go deeper.

386

:

So the stretch reflex is in itself it's a sympathetic response it's like danger danger?

387

:

It's your body trying to keep you safe yeah yeah so if you imagine let's imagine you're

388

:

ice skating, this happened to my father not too long ago, and your skate slips out from

under you and you kind of drop down into the jazz splits, but you didn't mean to.

389

:

Your body's, that's an extreme example, but your body will do everything it can to help

you not rip your hamstrings off the bone.

390

:

And so that signal from those muscle spindles really fast, your body tries to go, don't,

please don't rip your hamstrings off your bone.

391

:

And...

392

:

A lot of people can't really relate to that.

393

:

It seems like a really overreaction, but this happens a lot.

394

:

People rip their hamstrings right off their sitz bones.

395

:

Biceps tendon rips constantly.

396

:

These kinds of things do happen.

397

:

And especially if we were living any kind of like primal life with full shoulder flexion,

hanging from our arms, throwing probably muscle tear, tendon tears would happen a lot

398

:

more.

399

:

And so these responses are designed to protect us and that breathing really effectively,

that puts it down.

400

:

So I like the way you described it because I had read, I think probably in 1990, I read a

book called Job's Body.

401

:

Okay.

402

:

By Dean Juhan.

403

:

Okay.

404

:

And he used the example and this stayed with me as a kind of indictment of myself.

405

:

said you take it like a really old man who can barely move, you put him under anesthesia

and he becomes all floppy.

406

:

Yeah.

407

:

And so I interpreted that as this is all in my head.

408

:

Yeah.

409

:

So there is...

410

:

There's a half truth to this so you'll hear this under anesthesia I would be able to put

my feet behind my head and that's not true unless you could put your feet behind your head

411

:

normally and so the people who like to talk about this are actually people like me who

have quite a bit of range of motion, will still wake up stiff and Dancers who have range

412

:

of motion from their younger years, but still wake up stiff and for them their blockages

might be mostly nervous system But for most of us there's a yes and so there's a nervous

413

:

system as well as a physical hard stop that happens

414

:

from tissue length.

415

:

So if you and I were under anesthesia, you're absolutely right.

416

:

We would gain inches in our forward fold, but you would not become the gumby person that

you think you would.

417

:

There are manipulations done under anesthesia and this is what people are often thinking

of.

418

:

They might have seen them on social media or something like this and most commonly now

they'll do them post problematic knee replacement.

419

:

So joint replacements, hips are most common, most successful, knees would be number two.

420

:

Knees have a lot more problems but still

421

:

pretty successful.

422

:

But one of the things that will happen is after knee replacement somebody might only be

able to get to 90 or maybe they can get to 80 or 70 and they'd like more and so they'll go

423

:

it's a pretty gnarly thing to watch but you can see it on YouTube if you want.

424

:

But under anesthesia the doctor does a manipulation but it is not that the person suddenly

they're putting them on anesthesia because it hurts.

425

:

They're forcing the joint and they're either micro tearing or literally tearing connective

tissues to

426

:

force that range of motion.

427

:

So yes and and depends on the person but as much as 50 % of your range of motion might be

nervous system related might be.

428

:

Another way to think about this that people often relate to is most people on any given

day, if you were to poke around in your upper traps, you'll feel tension.

429

:

You go, yeah, what's that doing there?

430

:

And that tension is just resting muscle tone and that is limiting your range of motion.

431

:

And a lot of us have a real hard time switching off that upper trap tension.

432

:

Other areas, not so much.

433

:

But if you think of that tension in other areas of the body, that's a nervous system

element more so than a hard stop in terms of tissue length.

434

:

another example.

435

:

the martial art that I've done is called Sistema.

436

:

Okay, I don't know.

437

:

It's a Russian form.

438

:

Interesting.

439

:

And it's sort of like street fighting, like, you know, no rules, so...

440

:

your eyes out, kicking the grid.

441

:

Well, yeah, mean, basically, I'm some like, know, Russian special forces.

442

:

Interesting.

443

:

So any sort of combat rules, sports rules would get in the way of your instincts.

444

:

Okay.

445

:

So we would train a lot with like fake knives and guns.

446

:

Interesting.

447

:

And so one of the things is, so if you're going for your

448

:

knife and I want to reach for you and I realize I'm gonna get there too late I have to if

I can't be effective in Moving my body with we have sort of selective tension unless I'm

449

:

able to fall down backwards And like there's no so like falling backwards for me, and it

was on a mat.

450

:

Hmm, and I couldn't do it

451

:

Right.

452

:

it just felt like, like, know that falling backwards onto this mat would be safe.

453

:

Like my head knows, it's almost like I can't let go.

454

:

can't let go.

455

:

Right.

456

:

Right.

457

:

Right.

458

:

You can't let yourself fall.

459

:

Yeah.

460

:

Interesting.

461

:

Interesting.

462

:

That sounds like a really valuable practice to learn to let go and roll.

463

:

I'd like to try that.

464

:

Yeah.

465

:

It's needing, you know, more and more cushions.

466

:

Yeah.

467

:

Yeah.

468

:

Yeah.

469

:

Yeah.

470

:

Take a half an inch off every week.

471

:

So that's two.

472

:

Yeah, there's three basic principles and the third one is the one that nobody likes and

that's we call it time under passive tension and again these are deliberately juxtaposed

473

:

to strength training because people often understand that.

474

:

Let's come back to the bicep curl.

475

:

Let's say you one bicep curl a week.

476

:

It's just not enough time under tension and so tension is what triggers muscle

hypertrophy, muscle growth and with

477

:

Lengthening of tissues.

478

:

It's the exact same process.

479

:

This is an oversimplification, but it's helpful to think about if muscle hypertrophy for

strength is girth muscle hypertrophy for flexibility is length and There's more to it than

480

:

that But it's a helpful way to think about it because it's a the process is way more

similar than it is different And you just need a certain amount of time in a pose or your

481

:

body doesn't get the signal and our bodies are these homeostatic

482

:

homing pigeons.

483

:

They just want to stay exactly the same.

484

:

And exactly the same might be, if you're really lucky, super fit.

485

:

For most of us...

486

:

where your body wants to stay is somewhat annoyingly out of shape.

487

:

That's where we want to live.

488

:

And people always doubt this.

489

:

That's not true.

490

:

My body's always changing.

491

:

Kind of.

492

:

Let's say somebody's carrying some extra weight.

493

:

Super common.

494

:

Somebody's carrying 20 extra pounds.

495

:

They'll carry that 20 extra pounds for like 20 years.

496

:

It's like, how?

497

:

Are they counting their calories exactly?

498

:

No, their body's just driving homeostasis at all costs.

499

:

A little bit of cravings here and...

500

:

So what that means is your hamstring range of motion left unchecked will stay exactly as

it is or get worse.

501

:

Yes or yes.

502

:

And so the only way to break that is with a little bit of discomfort.

503

:

And what that comes down to is time under passive tension.

504

:

In terms of.

505

:

exactly how long this is something in the community we argue about and we talk about we

try to get some definitive answer I don't really know the exact number but somewhere

506

:

between two minutes and five minutes is ideal with bigger poses so compound stretches so

big joints like your hips where we might have half a dozen even a dozen or more tissues

507

:

involved we'll often push that time up for smaller more leveraged joints like wrists and

shoulders we'll often push that time back down but

508

:

As a general rule, two minutes as a minimum, five minutes as a maximum, and somewhere in

there is the sweet spot that I wish there were way to do a muscle biopsy and probe, but

509

:

that's where people get stuck, because they don't like to, nor do I, hold poses for a long

time, but you just don't get results if you don't.

510

:

So I think, you as I think about the stretching that I have done, it's almost never been

that long.

511

:

Yeah.

512

:

Right?

513

:

Because you wouldn't.

514

:

Why would I want to do that?

515

:

It's almost like I've, you know, I've got like a lock with four, no, and I've done three

of them.

516

:

Yeah.

517

:

And I've actually never made progress.

518

:

Yeah.

519

:

Yeah.

520

:

And your experience is typical for everyone.

521

:

And again, I always come back to the strength analogy because everybody also does a little

bit of strength and also don't make progress.

522

:

So Camila, who's one of the teachers at Yoga Body, he always makes the joke that your

average guy, when he feels like doing a little something, will do like 10 pushups and like

523

:

a couple of crunches.

524

:

And he's been doing that for like, you know, your average person does that just here and

there, you know, you're in a hotel and you're gonna do a little something, you 10 pushups

525

:

and a couple of crunches.

526

:

And it's not that it does nothing, but it definitely doesn't drive change, you know,

527

:

You never meet somebody who says like, I was in bad shape, but then started doing those 10

push-ups.

528

:

Just big breakthroughs.

529

:

The only way is to do more push-ups than you'd like to.

530

:

That's the only way.

531

:

It's always more than you'd like to, and there's usually a grunt at the end.

532

:

There's usually a squished up face and some tension.

533

:

It's unpleasant, and that is how physical adaptation happens.

534

:

We already know this, but stretching is a little weird, so we don't think that that's the

way it works, but it's the same thing.

535

:

It's the same thing.

536

:

You need enough time to be a bit uncomfortable.

537

:

So how do you help people be a little bit uncomfortable?

538

:

Because like, you know, I've hired a personal trainer.

539

:

get out of the beach and see each other twice a week.

540

:

Yeah.

541

:

And every single time he makes me do things I don't want to do.

542

:

Yeah.

543

:

And I like him.

544

:

He's nice about it.

545

:

I've had trainers who are like, are you pushing?

546

:

He's very he's very supportive.

547

:

That wasn't terrible.

548

:

It's come on.

549

:

Let's do another set.

550

:

But you know on my own You know and I'm doing the videos and you're you're very nice in

the videos and I know it's only 15 minutes Yeah, know you care about me.

551

:

Yeah, but like if I didn't have all that Yeah, I don't know what do you recommend for sort

of autonomous mental approach?

552

:

Yeah, like we talked about earlier I think it's really important that you know yourself

and also just appreciate that so you mentioned you don't like going to an hour class Just

553

:

accept that and move on you mentioned that you like going to the beach

554

:

in heaven this trainer, accept that and move forward.

555

:

know, and so at home practice works well for a lot of people.

556

:

Most of us need something.

557

:

Back in my early days of yoga, I started practicing so long ago, I had cassette tapes of

my teachers and I would put cassette tape in and press play and I'd practice along with

558

:

them.

559

:

I have discipline to burn.

560

:

You know, if you told me eating rocks would make me live forever, I would dine on gravel

every day.

561

:

And yet still, I also need motivation.

562

:

And so everybody's different, but most people.

563

:

And by most people I mean like 80 90 percent of people do not have the motivations to roll

out of that and just do the thing and so by whatever means necessary For a lot of people

564

:

it's yes end so it's go to a class go to a personal trainer twice a week and Have that

person hold you accountable for the stuff you do when you're not with them Push play on a

565

:

15 minute video with me and then maybe once a week or once a month go to a class the the

566

:

We'll always do more for someone else than we will for ourselves.

567

:

And so anytime you can anchor your motivation in someone else, and that could be some

random trainer you're paying, it could be some class you go to.

568

:

It's really helpful if there's like something at stake, whether it's kids or a spouse,

whether it's a fear of loss of something you love doing, whether it's hiking or a trip or

569

:

whatever it is.

570

:

It's really helpful if you get anchored in something else.

571

:

It would be great if we cared about ourselves more than other people, but we really don't.

572

:

And this is why group classes are so powerful.

573

:

weird things kick in.

574

:

You really care with this random stranger who you're never going to talk to, thinks about

your tree pose.

575

:

So I'm going to try really hard to impress this person who I don't know and don't care

about.

576

:

And we could fight social dynamics or you can just leverage it to get results.

577

:

And so I always encourage people just to try that.

578

:

All

579

:

Physical stuff is incredibly it makes everyone self-conscious, you know We're sitting here

next to these mirrors the first thing that happens when you stand in front of mirrors you

580

:

just go my god, what's going on?

581

:

When did this happen?

582

:

You know, it's just like this this slow train wreck of our health and so whenever you do

something new you mention personal training people will go to a Pilates class you'll go to

583

:

a bar fit class you go to yoga class you just feel clumsy and awkward and uncoordinated

and

584

:

What people think is that's why I shouldn't go, but it's actually why you should go.

585

:

And if you can get over that and just understand the reason I'm going is to get

comfortable with these movements in these places.

586

:

That's when people start to make changes, but that, that tendency to withdraw, especially

with fitness, it really goes to bad places pretty, pretty quickly because, know, a year

587

:

you haven't been to the gym, a couple of years you haven't taken a class and you're

playing some YouTube video, but you're kind of doing scrolling on your phone.

588

:

You're kind of not doing anything.

589

:

social engineering.

590

:

for yourself is a really important part of the fitness psychology.

591

:

And that puts a big responsibility on you to create an environment where people can come

in and feel safe.

592

:

I remember there was like Planet Fitness like tried to install like a no grunting.

593

:

Women would come in and feel comfortable.

594

:

There's hundreds of ways in which people can feel comfortable or uncomfortable being that

vulnerable with their bodies.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

Yeah, for sure.

597

:

For sure.

598

:

So before we get to breathing, maybe we should have done this in reverse if we're being

good marketers.

599

:

What are the costs of not addressing flexibility?

600

:

I can say for myself, I play ultimate frisbee on the beach, which means diving is no

longer a problem.

601

:

played grass ultimate for 40 years in the US.

602

:

I got more more scared of diving, but here it's just sand.

603

:

But I'm still like, ugh.

604

:

You know, like, I didn't go for that because the back was speaking to me.

605

:

what do you see in terms of the costs of not addressing flexibility?

606

:

Yeah, it's really, it's hard to focus on flexibility because it's often a long game.

607

:

It's very much like nutrition.

608

:

Nutrition can affect your weight in the short term, but like the other stuff that takes a

really long time to play out You know people are pretending like they're worried about

609

:

like yellow number five for cancer risk It's like come on.

610

:

Are you really thinking about that?

611

:

It's like not really But we need to be because all that stuff compounds over time, but

it's really hard.

612

:

So that's the way flexibility works Let's come back to your example of like the ultra

runners fantastic cardiovascular shape really great bone density But if you watch people

613

:

as they get older they curl up they curl up, you know, and so their whole body

614

:

starts to get tighter and what does that matter?

615

:

It kind of doesn't matter until it does but when it does it's usually a hard stop and the

hard stop looks like knee replacements, the hard stop looks like a major back problem and

616

:

It's very difficult to go stiff body joint replacement, stiff body injury, but it's

definitely a long mad journey.

617

:

It plays a part of that journey.

618

:

And so I often encourage people to watch a foot race, like watch a half, especially a long

one, like a half marathon or a marathon and watch the final stretch because this is when

619

:

people's movement dysfunctions come out.

620

:

And I'm absolutely, I mean, if you watch me coming across the finish line, it's you know,

it's, it's, it's a, a shit storm of, of, of things happening there too.

621

:

But this is when you see people's movement patterns.

622

:

out and you will see legs swaying to the side and you'll see heads down and then you think

okay what happens if this person doesn't fix those biomechanics or what if that becomes

623

:

their normal way of moving and then you just become susceptible to these stair-step

moments where a back injury or hip injury or a knee injury is so severe that you can't do

624

:

the thing that you do the defining part of your life whether that's cycling or running or

even active stuff.

625

:

So it's hard for people to see.

626

:

Can stretching prevent injuries?

627

:

Absolutely, but indirectly.

628

:

It prevents them by helping you to move better.

629

:

And so it's sort of like, having a standing desk or a dynamic workstation keep you from

ever having back problems?

630

:

No.

631

:

But can it contribute?

632

:

Yes, it can help.

633

:

And so it's important to give people realistic outlook because stretching is not a

panacea.

634

:

But especially when people are looking to have an active lifestyle and travel and move

around.

635

:

Really what we're thinking about long term is joint health.

636

:

And really what we're talking about is back and knees and hips.

637

:

That's usually where we end up in terms of the big problem on shoulders of course come

into play as well too.

638

:

So one more element that I've heard from people about like when I go to someone, a physio

for various dysfunctions that I have is they also talk about strengthening.

639

:

Now I know science of stretching isn't about strengthening, they would say, this muscle

here is really weak and so you're compensating

640

:

in ways that aren't helpful?

641

:

Can be, yeah, can be.

642

:

It's challenging because strength and flexibility, they're complete opposite sides of the

pendulum, and yet they do work together.

643

:

A really mobile joint that's not strong is dangerous.

644

:

That would be like a shoulder that dislocates.

645

:

And a really strong joint that has no mobility is also dangerous.

646

:

And that would be like a bodybuilder that can't scratch his own back.

647

:

both imbalances can lead to problems.

648

:

I guess the reason that a lot of people come to me is because of the strength aspect.

649

:

They're able to understand and wrap their head around.

650

:

In many cases, they have developed at least to some functional extent.

651

:

But if somebody is not doing any kind of strength work, absolutely.

652

:

It's equally important in some cases, even more important depending on which joint we're

talking about and what people are working with.

653

:

And finally, I know you'd like to stick to science and the body.

654

:

I like to go to metaphors.

655

:

Do you see flexibility in the body play out in flexibility in mental states?

656

:

I don't know that I draw the pliability of your body in terms of mental pliability, but

the practice of putting yourself in an uncomfortable position.

657

:

It's not meditation, but it's meditative.

658

:

And the practice of sitting with discomfort, the practice of commitment and setting a

goal, setting intentions, setting a timer and sitting still, that plays out very, very

659

:

clearly.

660

:

And especially when you couple it with breath, it really does become a mindfulness

practice.

661

:

And that has very real world stress management, resilient nervous system.

662

:

I don't know that I draw the parallel meaning if you're flexible in your hamstrings you're

gonna be flexible in your marriage I'm not I'm not sure if that's I'm not sure if I go

663

:

that far but absolutely the mental fortitude and nervous system and train That happens

from deep breathing coupled with uncomfortable movements that definitely has carryover

664

:

Cool, I like that.

665

:

When I fly off the handle, it's because I can't handle something in a moment, that I know

I have capacity, I have bigger capacity that if I built it, I'd redline a lot less

666

:

frequently.

667

:

Cool, all right, let's talk about breath and breathing.

668

:

And here, I haven't studied with you on that, so I'm a beginner.

669

:

The way that I look at breathing is generally our breath reflects our nervous system.

670

:

And so we often talk about reading people's body language.

671

:

Like I got the sense that you're calm today or I got the sense that you're...

672

:

Usually what we're talking about is breathing.

673

:

That's the most clear thing If we had sound off on a video and watch people when we watch

their body language We're very often watching breathing and what people say is no I'm

674

:

watching their face and their face is reflecting their breathing our shoulders and their

shoulders is reflecting their breathing and so our breathing pattern often reflects our

675

:

Physiological as well as psychological state of being on a very simple level someone

finishes a hundred meter sprint in there

676

:

and that's an appropriate response and yet it's a very different response than when

someone gets a bouquet of flowers.

677

:

and have that long prolonged exhale.

678

:

And all of this are things we understand intuitively from being socialized beings.

679

:

What people don't understand is if you imagine like a sand egg timer in the kitchen, you

can flip it over the other way and you can breathe as if you just ran a hundred meters,

680

:

even if you didn't.

681

:

Or I can breathe as if I just got a bouquet of flowers.

682

:

even if I didn't.

683

:

And interestingly, that pushes back on your nervous system, like the solar panels pumping

juice back into the grid.

684

:

can pump juice back into the grid and you can nudge your

685

:

nervous system in different directions.

686

:

Sympathetic, activated state or a parasympathetic resting focused state and it's a very

interesting tool to play around with.

687

:

as long as you understand the rules of the game, which really come down primarily to rate

of breathing.

688

:

And like everything in health and wellness, the nicknames and the nomenclature and the

brands and the gurus and the techniques, it all gets really confusing, but you can distill

689

:

everything in breathing down into three basic categories.

690

:

And the analogy that I always use is if you start studying nutrition, it gets so

overwhelming so fast.

691

:

But if you were to start at one place, the smartest place to start, if we were to go to

the grocery store over there, is just to figure out

692

:

What are the carbohydrates?

693

:

What are the proteins?

694

:

And what are the fats?

695

:

That would be the best place to start.

696

:

If you knew nothing about food, just to understand when I'm looking at the fish, this is

protein.

697

:

When I'm looking at the bread, this is carbs.

698

:

And when I'm looking at the oils, this is fat.

699

:

Just fundamental before we can do anything with food combining or calorie counting or

anything like that.

700

:

When it comes to breathing, it really comes down to the rate of which you're breathing is

how it's either reflecting or affecting your nervous system.

701

:

of a five-year-old and his teacher has taught him when he gets a little emotional.

702

:

working on his motions.

703

:

He's working on his motions right now.

704

:

And when he works on his motions, he does a belly breath.

705

:

He says, Dad, I gotta do a belly breath.

706

:

And he's five years old.

707

:

And the reason I'm sharing that is because he...

708

:

There's way too much complication with this whole thing.

709

:

He's five, he gets it, he understands.

710

:

If he's overwhelmed with his motions, he doesn't need to, he understands that he needs to

slow down and low down his breath.

711

:

With that in mind, we lump our breathing into three categories, like fats, proteins, and

carbs, and we call it water, balancing practices, whiskey.

712

:

Relaxating practices and coffee stimulating practices and if people don't like those terms

I don't drink or anything, but you might call them water and ice and fire if you wanted to

713

:

use different terminology, but water whiskey coffee is how we Categorize them so you

remember and it has everything to do with how fast or how slow you're breathing

714

:

And the way that we think about breathing practices are like tools in your toolkit that

you can use to modulate your nervous system instead of, not all the time, but instead of

715

:

the things we usually reach for, which are Netflix and half a bottle of red wine and

cannabis and doom scrolling and all these things, sleeping pills and all these things that

716

:

work and have a time and a place.

717

:

And I'm not talking about being a Puritan and that's not what I'm talking about.

718

:

But if and when you'd like to make a healthy option.

719

:

If and when you need something that can scale, can't drink wine forever.

720

:

This is when breathing can be a really effective nervous system modulator.

721

:

And most people don't realize that all day, every day, they're reaching for things to

self-soothe, reaching for things to stimulate.

722

:

All day long, we're...

723

:

titillating titillizing our nervous system or down regulating it intuitively in the

grocery store on the screen all day long, we're doing these things without being aware of

724

:

it.

725

:

When you're aware of it, and you've isolated a problem like great to have a cup of coffee.

726

:

Why did I have 12?

727

:

Right?

728

:

Maybe I need to figure out a way to modulate my nervous system.

729

:

It's great.

730

:

I had an ice cream.

731

:

Why did I eat the whole pint?

732

:

Right?

733

:

This kind of thing.

734

:

And people can start to utilize breath in a tool that way.

735

:

And so that's primarily what we teach.

736

:

And the rate at which you're breathing

737

:

is the most important thing.

738

:

So we teach breathing practices designed to either promote balance, rest and digest, like

a sleepier response, or a stimulating response that we use a lot more sparingly.

739

:

So one of the things I find really poignant is your five-year-old has learned that their

emotions are...

740

:

under their control.

741

:

That's way of agency.

742

:

I didn't learn that.

743

:

I don't think I was in my 40s.

744

:

If you'd said, you're really upset, you're overwhelmed, breathe.

745

:

It's like, no, you don't understand.

746

:

It's because of what they did.

747

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

748

:

Yeah, it's true.

749

:

It's true.

750

:

And I guess the...

751

:

The challenge with breath is the thing that's hard is the tools that we have right now,

work really well, like really well.

752

:

I'm not sure if you know about like these new energy drinks, but these things are

incredibly powerful.

753

:

You know, they have taurine and caffeine and guarana and all these crap.

754

:

I mean, they really stimulate you, you know?

755

:

So you can go into your average grocery store or your average phone.

756

:

mean, this is just like a, this thing is just lit up with brain stuff, you know?

757

:

And so these things we have, they work.

758

:

And it's important to recognize we're using these tools, not because we're crazier,

because

759

:

addicts, although we might move towards addiction, but we're using them because they work.

760

:

You drink a bottle of wine to fall asleep because it works, it makes you feel good.

761

:

And that's not wrong or bad, but when it creates things that are wrong or bad, like

screaming at everybody in your life, like not waking up for work, liver problems or

762

:

whatever it is, then let's look at some other options.

763

:

And that's where breathing can come in.

764

:

Breathing is not the superpower energy drink, it is not half a bottle of red wine in terms

of its potency, but it does scale over time.

765

:

And I often think of a bottle of red wine, sort of like a hammer, breathing practices more

like that same hammer but wrapped in a pillow.

766

:

It's a softer nudge, but it can scale and it can really serve people long term.

767

:

And so we've gotten really great results with it.

768

:

So when people do the wine or the whiskey or the, does their breathing change to reflect

it?

769

:

Normally our breathing reflects our nervous system state.

770

:

So if you were really anxious and worried, most likely you'd breathe what we call high

costal breathing, which is short and shallow, high up into your chest.

771

:

And if you were relaxed and calm and centered, maybe doing some deep cognitive work, maybe

having a meaningful conversation with a loved one on a phone, your breathing would tend to

772

:

be low and slow.

773

:

And so those things are true.

774

:

And when we manipulate the breath, we breathe as if dot dot dot.

775

:

So we breathe as if we were having that

776

:

conversation so we'd slow down the breath and to piggyback on your question does that

affect the breathing after in an ideal world it does it doesn't always work right if

777

:

somebody's in the middle of a big anxious moment and they force themselves to do slow

breath for two to five minutes which is our typical practice it might be that they finish

778

:

and they bounce right back to their anxious state but the more you do it the more you do

it and the more it spills over into the rest of your life it's nervous system and train

779

:

that your body really gets used to the things that you do

780

:

So one of things that I help clients with is a practice that I learned from ACT,

acceptance and commitment training.

781

:

Interesting.

782

:

Which involves, so like, you the issue is like someone loses it at work or they lose it

with their kids.

783

:

And they know like this situation triggers me and I'm going to sit down and I'm going to

meditate for 20 minutes a day and they do it.

784

:

And it has no effect because it's not the same situation.

785

:

And so the bridge is, I'd say to them, you know, think of something that activates your

786

:

stress response on like a one or two out of 10.

787

:

And while I keep thinking of it while you go into relaxing breath, and then expand it

expand it until until you've rehearsed.

788

:

Yeah, like me seeing you and we're about to lose it.

789

:

Like your face becomes a trigger.

790

:

Rehearsed the stress.

791

:

That's interesting.

792

:

Rehearsed.

793

:

Yeah, like exposure therapy to yourself.

794

:

Yeah, that's interesting.

795

:

Yeah, that's interesting.

796

:

So how do you know so someone's listening to this watching this like, okay,

797

:

I get why breath would be more useful, more accessible, more convenient, cheaper, safer

than what I'm doing now.

798

:

How do I start?

799

:

Because I learned about breath very young in my 20s and probably like then nine years went

by before I took my next conscious breath.

800

:

Yeah.

801

:

Yeah.

802

:

mean, with anything.

803

:

So I've been, I've been teaching yoga and nutrition and wellness now for like 22 years or

something like that.

804

:

And so there's so many things that are learned that are so amazing.

805

:

And then I always think like, why am I not doing those things anymore?

806

:

You know, why did that fall away?

807

:

And so one of the cool things about doing something for so long is you think about what

sticks and what sticks is usually the stuff that you really value or really gives you

808

:

value.

809

:

And with that in mind, the simple stuff that you can integrate into your life.

810

:

That's what I find really sticks.

811

:

So we teach a protocol that's basically five minutes, three times a day.

812

:

And the reality.

813

:

It's actually less.

814

:

It's like two minutes in the morning two in the afternoon and five at night but we call it

15 just to just to set expectations and What that means is it doesn't impose upon your

815

:

life at all and it can usually give pretty good results The challenge is there's so many

amazing things like you've talked about meditation.

816

:

I've done tons of meditation I've spent something like 45 days of my life all in all

completely in silence locked in various places in China here in Spain and Thailand and

817

:

India and in the US and

818

:

And I love meditation and I am a student of meditation and it's very unpredictable what

happens.

819

:

And if you look at the research it's very unpredictable.

820

:

If you talk to meditation teachers it's very unpredictable because you can easily spend an

entire hour or an entire day or in my case once an entire 12 days just ruminating,

821

:

ruminating on some relationship that's gone bad.

822

:

a lot of people say, but Lucas that's the point.

823

:

And it might be the point.

824

:

But like it's Wednesday and I've got stuff to do and the kids are going to finish school

in four hours and I don't have

825

:

that luxury of like self-indulging like I used to to just go hang out at a meditation

center until I work through my stuff.

826

:

just don't.

827

:

Maybe that will come again but at this juncture in my lifestyle I need something a little

bit more predictable and that's where breathing I think really has some unique advantages.

828

:

really is it's forced mindfulness and so you can't effectively complete your 10 rounds or

whatever it is without staying present and so that that's a benefit in and of itself.

829

:

The way in which it affects your physiology, your heart rate drops, your blood pressure is

very predictable.

830

:

And just that reliability is so valuable for me.

831

:

And it doesn't mean that it's better, but it's better for me and better for many people

right now at this time.

832

:

I feel like we've come to a good place.

833

:

You're wearing the shirt that says where people can go, but lot of people, most people

listen to this and don't watch.

834

:

How can people find you and get started?

835

:

Yeah, everything I do is at YogaBody.com and I teach stretching classes, teach breathing.

836

:

Occasionally I have in-person retreats at different parts of the world and I'd love to

connect with people online or in person, anywhere that you like.

837

:

If you come to Barcelona, we have a class on Wednesdays.

838

:

You can come join us.

839

:

Cool.

840

:

Did you buy YogaBody for like the register?

841

:

It's such a great URL.

842

:

domain.

843

:

Yeah, it's a funny story.

844

:

I waited 10 years.

845

:

Some domain squatter had it.

846

:

I think he wanted $100,000 or something.

847

:

I was just waiting him out.

848

:

was like, at some point, there's just some guy, I think he was in Maine or something.

849

:

was like, at some point, he's gonna need to buy a ring, or he's gonna need to buy a car.

850

:

I'm gonna wait it out.

851

:

I put a little thing in my Google calendar.

852

:

Once a year, I'd email him.

853

:

You wanna sell it?

854

:

Finally, he sold it.

855

:

I think it took 10 years, something like that to get it.

856

:

yeah, yeah, Commitment.

857

:

All right.

858

:

Slow.

859

:

Just as with practice.

860

:

Yeah, exactly.

861

:

Exactly.

862

:

Cool.

863

:

Lucas, thank you so much.

864

:

Thank you for welcoming me here and for sharing this.

865

:

I feel like I found you and your approach just the nick of time.

866

:

Amazing.

867

:

So I appreciate it.

868

:

Good.

869

:

And that's wrap.

870

:

You can find the show notes, links to everything we talked about and ways to get started

if you're interested in joining me on my own yoga body journey at plantyourself.com slash

871

:

six one two.

872

:

So movement news hasn't been all that much kind of taken a few days off.

873

:

It's Thanksgiving week here.

874

:

I just so my body told me to to just really

875

:

rest a lot, which I've been doing.

876

:

Got some tournaments coming up.

877

:

as you know, the the big the big movement news is kind of being still and doing these

daily stretches planning on joining the daily yoga daily.

878

:

So I'll be adding 15 minutes of yoga strength routine and of course, continuing my work

with Jay.

879

:

Hey, something I wanted to mention is, you know, I have stopped mostly doing health

coaching.

880

:

And people have been asking about that.

881

:

And I've been mostly working on larger scale things, executive coaching, leadership,

trying to move the needle on some of the biggest issues our planet faces.

882

:

And my strength is helping people be more effective and work together better.

883

:

However, I have been hearing from folks who are looking for health coaching, and I'm

thrilled to let you know that my daughter, Yael Zivan, is a coach.

884

:

And she is a trauma informed coach.

885

:

She has studied with some of the greatest behavior change and inner transformation folks

around, including Tori Olds, including Richard Schwartz of IFS, including Bruce Ecker, the

886

:

co-developer of coherence therapy.

887

:

And she is, you know, hanging a shingle and open for business.

888

:

So if you would like to work with someone I think is far better than me.

889

:

and helping people make these fundamental shifts.

890

:

You can drop me a line right now as she sets up her business.

891

:

I'll put you in touch.

892

:

You can drop me a line at HJ at PlantYourself.com and you can then set up a conversation

with the Elzevon and see if it's a direction you want to go in.

893

:

Other than that, got some great calls coming up, some great conversations in the books in

the next few weeks.

894

:

I look forward to seeing you again in a future episode.

895

:

As always, be well, my friends.

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