Shownotes
This episode dives into the importance of critical thinking and the effects of filter bubbles in social media. We chat about the recent buzz around Saturday Night Live featuring Chappell Roan, Kamala Harris, and that other guy. Plus, we also address a recent arrest in Iran and the dark realities of college culture in Australia highlighted by St Paul's College.
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✎ These are the links we mentioned:
- Dan Nigro Interview
- Bursting Filter Bubbles In A Digital Age
- Filter bubbles
- USyd's St Paul's College Scandal
- Iran Arrests Woman Who Protested ‘Abusive’ Dress Code Policing
- Astronaut Diwali
- Logan Paul & Rosanna Pansino Tea
We hope you loved the pod, hosted by your fave personality hires Simran Pasricha & Ryan Hamilton. Tell a friend about us and we'll love you forever! Otherwise, we'll see you next week with a new episode.
Recorded on unceded Bunurong and Wurundjeri country by two friends who met on Kombumerri country. This always was, and always will be, Aboriginal land. Join us in Paying the Rent.
Transcripts
Before we begin, Simran and I would like to acknowledge that we're recording this on the unceded land of the Wurundjeri Woiwurrung people of the Kulin nations. We'd also like to acknowledge that we met and grew up together on the land of the Kombumerri people of the Yugambeh language group.
And we'd like to acknowledge and pay our respects to Kulin and Yugambeh elders, past and present, and extend that respect to any first nations listeners
Simran:Always will be aboriginal land.
Ryan:Welcome back to Broadly Relevant.
Simran:I'm Simran Pasricha.
Ryan:I'm Ryan Hamilton and this is the.
Simran:Podcast for burnt Out Divas trying to stay Broadly Relevant. So we have a Broadly Listener of the Week. Is that what we used to call them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was so cute.
We were at a Diwali dinner this last week and Shruspi, she came up to us and we thought we were in trouble and we were sitting in the wrong spot, but she said, oh, hi. I listened to you guys on Broadly Relevant.
Ryan:This is crazy, getting recognized in public.
Simran:So anyways, we're leaving everybody in our old lives behind.
Ryan:I like famous.
Simran:Yeah, it's no big deal.
Ryan:Waiting for the Guardian to call.
Simran:Absolutely. It was wild. So thanks, Girly pop. We love you.
Ryan:This one goes out to you.
Simran:Thank you.
Ryan:Broadly Culture.
Simran:Lots happening in culture this week.
Ryan:A lot. A lot, a lot.
Simran:It's my favorite thing to say.
Ryan:What are we starting with?
Simran:Let's go with snl. Saturday Night Live was wild this week.
Ryan:No, because Carmela and Chapel Roan on the same episode.
Simran:I mean, did they work it out on the remix, though?
Ryan:Well, I saw, like, a hilarious skit which was, like, pretending to be one of the runners in the production, like, trying to keep them separate. I was like, I love that. That's amazing, because I don't think they interacted on TV at all.
Simran:No, no, no, no. But I can't imagine that they didn't, like, run into each other backstage. Right.
Ryan:Surely.
Simran:But she is vice president, so maybe she, like, didn't interact with anyone backstage.
Ryan:Yeah, maybe. Well, but then, did you hear Chapel did a new song?
Simran:Yes.
Ryan:Yeah. And then in her intro, she was like, the only person who knows how to treat a woman right is a woman. And I'm like, are you.
Is that a coded way of saying.
Simran:Yeah, if you have no idea what we're talking about? A couple of weeks ago, maybe a month now. So Chapel Rowan post a couple different TikToks about the U.S. election.
Ryan:It's a massive drama.
Simran:It was a massive drama at the time, mainly because she didn't endorse a specific candidate, but she did endorse the use of critical thinking. So she was just like, overall, like, not vibing with the candidates.
And she said, no, I'm not voting for Trump, and guess I will always question those in power. She said that she doesn't feel pressured to endorse anyone.
And she's, you know, previously, like, denounced the Biden Harris administration specifically around their failures to defend queer rights and also for their genocide. Exactly. For funding a genocide.
And so she puts, like, in another video, she says, obviously, obviously fuck the policies of the right, while also, you know, saying, like, some of the left's completely transphobic and completely and completely genocidal views are, like, something that she doesn't agree with. And she says, I'm not settling for what has been offered. This is not me playing both sides. This is me questioning both sides.
So I wonder if that was brought up in backstage as well.
Ryan:I imagine there are a lot of people pay a lot to keep them separate.
Simran:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Ryan:But.
Simran:But who knows about her new song, though?
Ryan:And Kamala's outfit. Not. Sorry, not Kamala's outfit. Chapel's outfit.
Simran:Yeah, Chapel's outfit even, like, in the promo vids were, like, incredible.
Ryan:Phenomenal. And who was the boy?
Simran:John Mulaney. Good for him that he got to stay, share the stage with Chapel Ride. Yeah, absolutely.
Ryan:Well, apparently he got chin, like, resurfacing or something.
Simran:Oh, I didn't know that.
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:Is that just a rumor that we're spreading now?
Ryan:Yeah, but also the chat, not Chapel. Kamala was so fun.
Simran:Yeah, Kamala was so fun. She was marmala.
Ryan:And she kept her whole scene with Maya Rudolph where they just, like, kept saying, like, everything. Amala.
Simran:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep Kamala and carry on a lot. Yeah. So good.
Ryan:And we'll have a good Christmas. Fala Lala.
Simran:That one was my favorite. I love it. And I love that Maya Rudolph gets a job now.
Ryan:Yeah, she is in. And because I was looking at them and I was like, you do look very much alike.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And like, Maya in the whole outfit doing the laugh where Kamala, like, talked.
Simran:About her own laugh. Yeah.
Ryan:Kamala was like, surely I don't laugh like that. And Maya was like, you do?
Simran:Yeah. It was so good. I actually thought that they were going to bring out Liza Koshy. Do you know who she is? She's like a YouTuber.
Ryan:Is she the tiktoker who does The Kamala impressions.
Simran:She went as Kamala to Halloween this year. She was like an og, like vine user. Anyways, everyone thought that she was going to come out and I was here for it. I'd love to see them all.
All three in the same room.
Ryan:All the Kamalas?
Simran:Yeah. You've never seen them in the same room.
Ryan:That's interesting.
Simran:Yeah, interesting. Nobody points that out, you know, but no, back to Chapel. I was so excited that this is like a country song.
Ryan:Yeah, yeah.
Simran:And she, like, teased it a little bit on her Instagram, like last week, I think, with these, like, series of Polaroids that each had. Like, each Polaroid had one word on it and it was she gets it done. I think that's right. She gets the job done. Yeah.
Each Polaroid had one single word on it that spelled out, she gets the job done. People thought it was like her new merch, but new song. New song potential. Also endorsement of Kamala, who knows?
But it's very country vibes, which I love. And all of the headlines say, like, Chapel roans debuts lesbian. New lesbian country song, which I love. I think that's iconic behavior.
But I will come back to this and like the. I will die on this hill. The countrification of pop music is everywhere.
Beyonce, Cowboy Pope with Lana Del Rey's new album is also going to be a country inspired.
Ryan:Do you remember her boyfriend, how we all thought he was ugly in that one photo?
Simran:Lana Del Rey. And then they got married.
Ryan:But then I saw another photo. Apparently he's not ugly.
Simran:Oh, okay. You heard it here first.
Ryan:Saw it on Twitter.
Simran:You heard it here first. But I'm excited for the rest of Chapel's, like, new music. Dan Nigro, her producer, who also is the producer of Olivia Rodrigo, hinted and let's.
Let's pull up my soul, shall I? Yeah.
Dan Nigro, who produced Chapel's debut album and is also the producer for Olivia Rodrigo, recently spoke to the New York Times and revealed that they've actually completed five tracks together. Yeah. So, like, I think we're going to get like her new album or at least like a lot more new music very soon.
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:So she says, like, Chapel hinted at this country song, like, in like one of her concerts, and she was like, it's gonna be a Shania Twain, like, energy. And obviously it was. And then Dan said that there's going to be a couple of ballads and a mid tempo rock track. So I'm very excited to find that.
Ryan:I'm excited for, like, the young people of today to Grow up with, like, Chapel Roan is the reference.
Simran:Absolutely. As a country reference. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so nice. The new lesbian country song. Very exciting. Anything else? Oh, wait.
You know something else that I loved on snl?
Ryan:What?
Simran:The whole, like, oh, you can be president too, if you can open doors.
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:I laughed out loud not even knowing the context of that.
Ryan:I was a little confused. And then I watched the video. Have you seen the video?
Simran:No. Tell me more.
Ryan:So Donald Trump is a man, famous man, and basically he was, like, doing, like, a rally in some place, and he brought it like a garbage truck, because apparently. So Kamala called him garbage, and he was like, let me get a garbage truck to show her that garbage is cool.
Now, basically, he verbatim said that in a rally. He was like, yeah. Like, my aides say, garbage is in now. And I'm like, okay. Anyway, so he pulls up. He gets a garbage truck.
He gets a garbage truck, and he, like, goes to get in it, but, like, he reaches for the door, and his hand, like, doesn't go far enough. So he, like, puts his hand out and just, like, grabs nothing and then falls onto the door and then grabs it and opens it. It was very surreal.
And I'm like, diva. And then he gets into the car, and then he just, like, answered some questions.
Simran:I love that. And then it was an snl.
Ryan:Well, no. And then he was, like, in the garbage truck. And so you know how the. There was the comedian who said the mean things about the Puerto Rican community.
He was like, in the garbage truck. And then a reporter was like, so, like, what's your stance on that? And he was like, puerto Rico loves me. I don't know this comedian.
Who is he, like, I have no clue. And just denied everything. And it's like, do Diva. I just think you can. I don't think you can deny everything.
Simran:No. And Diva just needs to retire, actually.
Ryan:Well, yeah.
Simran:Moving on to people who maybe just, like, need to, like, take a step back from the Internet, YouTuber Rosanna Pensino responded to Logan Paul calling out, calling out, calling out criticism about his new product, Lunchly. And Lunchly is basically the equivalent of Lunchables, which was, like, an American snack, like, food thing.
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:And doesn't Mr.
Ryan:Beast have, like, food as well?
Simran:So it's with him.
Ryan:Oh, my God. Yeah.
Simran:So it's like Lunchly is a LOGAN Paul and Mr.
Beast, like, collab, and it has, like, a prime drink in it and, like, things that you can make, like, you know, like mini, like, pizzas, things Depending on which flavor. But basically, he made this video. Oh. I also wanted to clarify that. I think that Logan Paul should take a break from the Internet.
Not Rosanna, but basically, Logan Paul made a video calling out a fake sign that said that the FDA had recalled lunchly packets. And this had come at a time where a lot of creators and just, like, random people on the Internet found mold in their lunchly packets. Yeah.
Like, it was so gross. And, like, the whole lunchly packets are, like, really? They. They're not. They don't give, like, nutrition for kids, you know?
And I thought that Jamie Oliver had already solved that issue. You know what I mean, guys?
Ryan:When he dumped the sugar from the. Yes, yes, the wheelbarrow. Yeah, the wheelbarrow of sugar. He was like, this is how much sugar an American child is.
Simran:Exactly. And he went around all those schools, and he, like, taught them how to, like, eat broccoli.
Ryan:You know that TV show is, like, foundational core memory.
Simran:Absolutely, absolutely. Anyways, this sign was, like, floating around social media that said that the FDA had recalled the lunchly, like, packets.
And he saw this sign and found out that it was essentially fake because the FDA did not recall anything. And that should be, like, public information. And he's right. Like, it was a fake sign. Right.
The issue is, is that he tracked down the store that posted it and then tracked down the specific employee and then, like, called him out on social media with his, like, millions of followers, this, like, personal social media account, and then, like, basically, like, doxed him a little bit.
Ryan:Oh, no, we don't do that here.
Simran:We don't do that here. And so Rosanna Pensino, who is a YouTuber, she's like, one of the OG YouTubers.
She's really good at baking, and that's kind of how she's made her empire. She called him out, and Logan Paul called her an hungry little clout goblin. Yeah. And then she was like, that's so funny.
You really can't come up with anything original in your life. You stole lunchly from a lunchable thing, and now you're stealing my own insults to use against me. Because she once called him, like, a money goblin.
But Rosanna Pensino has been on her, like, social justice warrior journey, and I'm absolutely here for it because she's also called out Mr.
Beast, who owns part of Lunch League, for his plethora of alleged problematic behavior, including all the way back from not providing water and having really bad environments for his game show called the Beast Games. And recently she has admitted that she Went to the FBI for America has so many acronyms.
Ryan:Acronyms.
Simran:I know, Totally. You're so right.
Ryan:Fda, FBI.
Simran:Totally. Just the two. But she went to the FBI because of her concerns with these. With a telegram channel from.
hannel that Mr. Beast used in:In the telegram channel, allegedly, there were, like, lots of contemptuous topics such as, like, cannibalism and sexuality. And, like, that is just not something that you talk about, obviously, like, with your employees.
Some people have been saying that it has, like, a lot to do with, like, Vore, like, the Vore King, like, and that's like, allegedly. What was in that.
Ryan:But why?
Simran:I don't know. I don't know. All I know is that MrBeast is so sus. Everything that's coming out of, like, his smile.
Ryan:It's a weird smile.
Simran:Sure.
Ryan:Also, didn't we cancel the polls?
Simran:Oh, yeah, yeah. The polls have been canceled.
Ryan:Like, why are we still. You know.
Simran:You know, my most toxic trait about me is that I had a crush on Logan Paul.
Ryan:Let me check.
Simran:It's the most. It really is the most, like, deepest, darkest secret of my life that I'm sharing with only the broadly relevant listeners.
Ryan:Simran. Why?
Simran:I don't know. I think it was internalized racism, like.
Ryan:And sexism, like, just like Paul Mescal.
Simran:Yeah. No, period. And then Paul Mescal, like, came to me and it was great. Oh, my God.
Did you see the thing with Paul Mescal and Sasha Ronan on the Graham Norton Show?
Ryan:Yes.
Simran:Yeah. That was crazy. Sasha Ronan, like, gagged.
Ryan:Paul Mascal and Eddie Redmayne.
Simran:And Eddie Redmayne. When they were talking about how funny it would be if you, like, pulled out your phone once. You're, like, getting, like, attacked or something.
Ryan:And then Paul Mescal was like, I bought that, silly.
Simran:Yeah, yeah. And then Sasha Rodman was like, well, women have to think about this all the time. And I was like, period. And then they went silent.
Ryan:Awkwardly silent.
Simran:Yeah, it was everything and more.
Ryan:Paul was in Sydney the other day.
Simran:Yes, I did.
Ryan:Yeah. For the Gladiator.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:You know who else was in Sydney the other day?
Simran:Yeah, tell me.
Ryan:As in today.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:Ariana Grande and Cynthia Rivo.
Simran:Yeah, they're here for the Wicked premiere.
Ryan:The world premiere.
Simran:Isn't that crazy? I thought that was so bonkers that Australia got the premiere. And same as Gladiator. Like, that's like, why?
Ryan:What is Sydney doing?
Simran:What is Sydney doing? I don't understand.
Ryan:No, but good for them.
Simran:Yeah. So proud of them.
Ryan:Yeah. I had some friends who, like, went to see Paul Mezcal.
Simran:Oh, yeah?
Ryan:Yeah. Like, they just got to see Paul Mezcal.
Simran:Well, that's so fun. To be in there in his, you know, presence is so lovely.
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:Last thing on the docket is it was Diwali this past week. Maybe some people are also celebrating this week. You know, do your thing with Diwali, I guess. I don't know why I'm speaking so awkward about it.
I celebrate Diwali.
Ryan:Who would host to party like a week later?
Simran:I know, I know. Okay. I did want to, and it was a whole thing anyways.
But the most iconic thing to come out of Diwali, at least in my opinion, is that, you know, the NASA astronauts that are stuck in space still.
Ryan:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Simran:Okay. So one of them is Indian. Her name is Suni Williams, and she sent a happy Diwali message from space.
Ryan:What did she say?
Simran:She was basically just like, I want to extend my warmest wishes for a happy Diwali to everyone celebrating the Festival of Lights today at the White House and around the world. So it was, like, shown at the White House's Diwali party.
And yeah, she said, this year I have the unique opportunity to celebrate Diwali from 260 miles above the Earth on the ISS. And I think that's hilarious.
Ryan:Well, tea with the ISS.
Simran:No, tell me.
Ryan:You know they're going to shut it down soon.
Simran:Wait, I didn't know that. Hey, what's the iss?
Ryan:So the ISS is the International Space Station. It's like a space station. It's like the space station. It's been around for like, 20, 30 years.
And it was made by a collaboration between a bunch of different countries, but basically it's reached the end of its service life. And in that next, like, five years, they're gonna stop setting people up and they're gonna just crash into the ocean.
Simran:Oh, my God.
Ryan:Well. Cause it's. It's done.
Simran:Oh. Cause it's done. You can't.
Ryan:Yeah. And it's, like, really hard to, like, bring things back because they burn up in the, you know, in the air. There's like fire and so they.
Oh, so they're just gonna dump it in the ocean.
Simran:Sure.
Ryan:I know. Really sad.
Simran:Very sad. But everybody's in the Indian community is loving that.
She wished everybody happy Diwali because it was so, like, brown, like, perfect brown daughter coated, because she was basically like, happy Diwali. Do stay like, she was, like. And obsessed with that for her and so glad that she took the time.
Ryan:Broadly news. Would you like to start with the bad news or the bad news?
Simran:What about the bad news?
Ryan:I'll bring you some bad news.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:So there was a woman who was arrested in Iran for her protest about the abusive dress code there, which requires, like, mandates headscarves at all times. And so. So basically, she was being harassed by a paramilitary force at Tehran's prestigious Islamic Azad University.
And so in protest, she just stripped her underwear, walked outside and then got arrested.
Simran:God.
Ryan:And now everyone's calling for her release for good reason.
Simran:Absolutely.
Ryan:Free her.
Simran:Yeah, absolutely. It's.
It's very sad that, you know, obviously we, like, have known about these restrictions in Iran for a while, especially when those, like, mass protests happen.
Ryan:Two years ago.
Simran:Two years ago, after the death and.
Ryan:Custody of Mahsa Amini, an Iranian Kurdish woman who had been arrested for an alleged breach to the dress code.
Simran:Exactly. But since that two years, I don't think that I've spoken about it very much.
And this is, like, definitely, like, on us as well, but I feel like we don't remember that the laws that are put in place are, like, consistently oppressing people until somebody has to put themselves on the line of fire, essentially.
Ryan:Well, that's the thing with the news.
The news only reports change because I was reading a really interesting analysis of the conflict in the South China Sea, which was basically because it's incredibly.
It's an incredible conflict, but nothing happens there, so it never gets reported on, so nobody knows about what's going on because it's just nothing material happens for photos to be taken off, you know.
Simran:Yeah, absolutely. And someone who works in the news. It's a very conflicting thing to be a part of this system, I guess.
Ryan:Are you meant to just put out a daily reminder that here are all the injustices in the world? Yeah, maybe.
Simran:Maybe. I don't know. Maybe that's something we can start doing here.
Ryan:Start a spreadsheet.
Simran:Sure, Yeah. I don't know.
Ryan:Do you have any more bad news?
Simran:What's the other bad news?
Ryan:Is it me? Oh, it is me. Yeah. But, yeah, in other news, I guess it's like less bad news and more like controversial news.
The Liberal Party in Australia is accusing Anthony Albanese of, during his time as the Transport Minister, calling the then Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, who was a gay Irish man, not relevant to the story. But I think it adds color, a little pizzazz. I like imagining him as a Leprechaun.
But basically, the Liberal Sir Peter Dutton is accusing Anthony Albanese, who's the current Prime Minister of Australia, of calling Alan Joyce and asking him for free flight upgrades. So politicians have to keep a docket, like a register of every gift and thing they receive. And Albanese's list does have flight upgrades.
Like, he has received flight upgrades. But basically he was like, yeah, but I've declared them, reported them all, and none of them happened because I ever called Alan Joyce.
In fact, he denies phone calls with Alan Joyce. But the Liberals are like, no, we're taking you to court over this. So it sounds like they have some dirt on him. And he's like, help me.
Simran:Interesting.
Ryan:But anywho, that's the tea of Albanese. And that's been, like, over the news the whole week. The whole week.
Simran:Yeah. It's so funny. I haven't seen it at all. And we'll come back to that.
Ryan:We'll come back to that. My whole news this week has just been like, Albanese called Alan Joyce.
Simran:Unfortunately, my whole news this week has not been very fun at all. I've really been hyper fixating on this story about the St. Paul's College. St. Paul's College is a residential college at the University of Sydney.
And they were in the news this past week for a serious bullying incident which resulted in expelling six students and suspending another 21. Trigger warning essay.
tiny over its culture back in:So this was when the former sex discrimination commissioner, Elizabeth Broderick conducted like.
Like that investigation that, like, you know, uncovered lots of issues about, like, college life, including, like, binge drinking, sexism, and, like, ritual humiliation. And St. Paul's was part of that report. They.
In the report in: Ryan:What?
Simran:Yeah, absolutely.
Ryan:Wild, raw or.
Simran:I don't know.
Ryan:I think that does change it.
Simran:I don't know. I'm gonna say raw, probably.
Ryan:Well, because people do, like, eat hard, right?
Simran:Yeah. But I don't know if someone should be forcing anyone to eat anything.
Ryan:I agree. As a vegetarian, totally.
Simran:And they would also regularly celebrate different achievements, like sporting achievements, by taking girls to a room. Room that were like. That was lined with mattresses and it was coined the bone room.
Ryan:Oh.
Simran:Yeah. It was literally very much like blink twice energy.
And it was like they would invite These girls, like, on a date and like, wine and dine them and like, make them dress all, like, fancily and then bring them back to the bone room. Allegedly.
Ryan:Hang on, I'm just googling. Blink Twice. I'm not sure I understand your reference.
Simran:Blink Twice was a movie with Channing Tatum and Zoe Kravitz and it was about bringing women to this island to essentially like, like sa then.
Ryan:Oh, no me gusta.
Simran:Yeah, but sorry, that was a major spoiler. Spoilers. Yeah. Anyways, yeah, and it happened like during O week, apparently.
According to Oni Swee, the student newspaper at University of Sydney, they said that the O week bone Room, kind of like the pressure was compounded by the fact that the girls had only arrived on the campus a week before. Anyway, anyways, fast forward to this past week when St. Paul's College Village was in the news again and they, you know, expelled all those people.
It was because of this mock trial that had gone horribly wrong, essentially.
According to reports, there was this trial and like, a group of students appointed themselves as like, judge, defense attorneys and like, prosecutors and found the defendant, quote, unquote, guilty.
And in like a weird, like, disturbing twist, the fake judge reportedly ordered the others to gag the student with a sex toy style gag and force it into the student's mouth.
And then reportedly the student sensed around verbally abusing the victim until they eventually left the room and like, went on with their day and obviously really, really, really fucked. It's, I guess it's like a good thing that the St.
ia of students tearing up the: re is not good. And after the:Paul's College was like, we will take the recommendations on hand and we'll like, do better.
Ryan:Yeah. You know, colleges are fucked.
Simran:Yeah. Six years later, like, what happened? Yeah.
So no, like, the New South Wales police is, like, aware of the media reports, but no formal complaints have been, you know, lodged by the school or like the wit victims or anything. Yeah, really, really fucked. Colleges are fucked. Yeah. But anyways, not good, man. Not good vibes all around.
So sorry that News was a bit of a downer this week, but on.
Ryan:The bright side, Coldplay was here. Broadly D. Did you know Coldplay was here?
Simran:I did know Coldplay was here.
Ryan:I didn't.
Simran:Yeah.
I didn't until I randomly saw people on my Instagram who I didn't think would go to a Coldplay ticket, like, a concert and, like, buy tickets at the Coldplay concert.
Ryan:Well, this morning, I saw someone wearing a Coldplay T shirt.
Simran:I saw someone with a hat the.
Ryan:Other day, and I'm like, that's crazy.
Simran:Yeah, crazy. I have a Coldplay T shirt. Coldplay was my first concert ever. It was me, our friend, our mutual friend from high school, and my dad.
, maybe, like,: Ryan: of the time. That's okay for:Like, my brain cannot believe that they're still so big, because I'm like, I've not heard them on TikTok. I don't see them on Instagram. Except now that they're in Melbourne and everyone's like, ohplay.
Simran:Yeah. And I think that's kind of what got us thinking about this week's Broadly Deep, is that if we don't see it on our algorithm. Is it true?
Ryan: e way I didn't know about the: Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:How did I miss that?
But there's so many things that, like, we, like, fall into these little bubbles about, like, you know, K Pop's massive, but I reckon there's so many people who, like, don't even know who blackpink is.
Simran:Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I, like, I included, like, I only know, like, the peripheral things about K Pop and Cat's Eyes, like, my life and joy right now, but I'll never forget that.
Ryan:But do you remember Fred again? Yeah, he was massive. And I was like, where did he come from? Because suddenly he was in Melbourne and people were running to find his hidden merch.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And I was like, I'm sorry, what?
Simran:And I know this kind of just sounds like, oh, people just have different interests and sometimes you just won't like everything that everybody else likes.
Ryan:But it's not that. Because it's not that I dislike Fred again. I'm like, like, people. People as a. As a collective, a lot of us liked Fred again.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And I think it speaks to the way that, like, on social media, you don't realize, like, it feels so isolated and so personal, and then it's like, oh, like, we forget community, you know?
Simran:Totally. But I think that's, like. I don't know if that's, like, so different to how it was, I guess, like, pre social media and like, how.
I guess, like, the punk kids, like, would know, you know, like, all the punk divas that they, like, listen to, but, like, the pop divas didn't know the punk people, I guess.
Ryan: , pre social media, it's like: Simran:Oh, TikTok by Kesha. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, it's TikTok by Kesha. Totally. Totally.
Ryan:On my little, like, SanDisk MP3 player.
Simran:Yeah. But I guess it's not exclusive to music, right? It's, like, different things. Well, it was. Sometimes I heard someone say, like, who is Chapel Roan?
And I was like, oh, my God. What?
Ryan:But, like, I get it. Because, like, so, like, everyone's like, oh, my God, Chapel Roan is like, a huge, like, famous star.
But in my head, I'm like, the only time I see Chapel Roan is on my little phone.
Simran:Yeah.
You know, it's like when there's, like, a sound that you think, like, you keep seeing in your algorithm, and then you're like, the sound isn't popular. You're just on queer TikTok, and you're like, yeah, totally.
Ryan:So consistently. And it's like, oh, my God, it peaked at 300 uses. Oh.
Simran:And you're like, this is in my head and in my dialogue every damn day.
Ryan:But then the crazy thing is, like, the people you're closest with, you go and say, like, you say the sound, and they know the sound. And it's like the way it, like, puts you and just a couple people, you know, in that tiny little section of the Internet. Fascinating.
Simran:Very interesting. I guess that is a part of a community, Right?
Ryan:But there's a term for this. It's called a filter bubble.
Simran:Okay, tell me more.
Ryan: that was initially coined in: Simran:I'm going to go with Eli.
Ryan: Eli Pariser in:So he wrote a book called the Filter Bubble, and he predicted essentially, that individualized personalization by algorithmic filtering would lead to intellectual isolation. Intellectual isolation and social fragmentation. And I don't want to. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I think Diva hit the nail on the head.
Simran:Heads were hit.
Ryan: s exactly what we saw. Right.: Simran:He did.
Ryan:Sorry, did you say you did?
Simran:He did.
Ryan:He thought he was going to win. I was going to bring up the fact that you.
Simran:No, you can't keep bringing this up.
Ryan:Simran once told me that they were both as bad as each other.
Simran:It was before I knew anything.
Ryan: It was September: Simran:And I didn't know anything. And I was 17. I was 16.
Ryan:But like no one actually thought he would win. And then he won.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And like that was crazy. And I think it really punctured like the fact that like everyone lives in their bubbles.
But yeah, and it speaks to that, I think like the way that like on social media it is such like an isolated and lonely experience. Like you're just like giving. You're like just receiving what the algorithm's giving you.
But then I've been thinking about, you know how like Instagram has like Instagram notes and like when you like something sometimes like you see the little like bubbles of other people.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:It's interesting the way that like social media platforms are trying to like push against that isolation and make you feel like it's community.
Simran:Oh, interesting.
Ryan:Have you noticed them?
Simran:Yeah, especially on Instagram. I would.
It's funny because like I feel like I find more like community vibes on TikTok, but I don't interact with the community the same way as I do on Instagram. I feel like, you know, I have more of that. Like I'm like allowed to interact more on Instagram than I am on TikTok, you know?
Ryan:Yes. Yeah. I don't comment or do anything on TikTok really that much, but Instagram, it's very like.
And it's also because you know how like nowadays we have to like control the algorithm and like teach the algorithm what we like.
Simran:Yes. Yeah.
Ryan:That's so important. But then it's also this like double edged thing where I'm like, if I like something, my little profile picture might pop up on it. So it's like.
Do you know what I mean?
Simran:Yeah, absolutely. No, no, go again.
Ryan:So it's like you have to not only try and teach the algorithm what you like, but also in liking something, choose if you want to be associated with that.
Simran:Right. And show. And it kind of comes down to this whole thing.
Can you just like what you want to like without feeling pressure not only to, like, how you'll be perceived about liking something, but also not feeling the pressure to. You have to like, actively seek out things outside of your bubble. Because sometimes I just want to be silly, goofy on TikTok.
Ryan:Right? Yeah, yeah.
Simran:And like, having to fit, like in the back of my mind, knowing that if I like too many of these things, then this is all my algorithm is going to be and this is all I will see and this, like, part of the world.
Ryan:It's kind of stressful.
Simran:Yeah, it is kind of stressful in the sense that, like, this is like the least stressful things in the world. And like, there's so many other bigger things, but, like, sure, let's like, it.
Ryan:Is, you know, but yeah, so there was some research that was done on filter bubbles and stuff because, like, it's now like a, like a filter bubble. It's called a filter bubble. But there was some research done on how social media networks can change and increase polarization amongst people.
And so these researchers took like Reddit and Twitter. And so Reddit used to. It's now changed, but it used to not have an algorithmic feed.
It was just like, look, I mean, in a strict technical sense it was an algorithm because it's all an algorithm.
But it wasn't algorithmic in the sense that like, we understand TikTok or like Instagram reels to be an algorithm, whereas Twitter has been algorithmic for like a long time.
And basically they found that using personal or personalized networks increased polarization by 400%, while using like, non personalized networks increased it only by like 4%, which is like, that's like a big difference. Yeah, that's like 396.
Simran:It makes sense. Okay, quick, bad. It makes sense, right, though?
Because you want to just like, look at the things that you want to look at, you know, as opposed to having to expand your world view all the damn time, you know? Yeah, I know that sounds so not what we stand for in our lives, but it's the way that the algorithm has trained me to think.
Okay, but echo chambers can be very scary. I mean, that's how like, you know, Trump won the election.
Even like our own, like, Australian election, like the echo chambers that existed on TikTok itself and like the referendum vote.
Ryan:Yeah. And you end up just like, just believing everything that is in that comes across in your filter bubble and it's like, kind of scary.
Simran:Absolutely. Well, I always thought that it would be like, like we would get the yes vote because everybody I knew was like voting yes, you know.
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:And then actually obviously not like the majority said no.
But then when I spoke to people who like just like new people that I hadn't, that weren't part of my immediate community, they were like, obviously it's going to be a no, like I'm voting yes. But like everybody that I'm speaking to is like voting no. And the echo chamber kind of like keeps you in that.
And then like obviously like your friends are your friends. So then you're like like only adding to that.
Ryan:Well, and I think it's really hard to gauge because like when you, you like talk to your friends, you're in your head, you're like, I've only spoken to five people. But then you go on the Internet and you're like, well on the Internet there's like 8 billion people here.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And you assume that what you're receiving is representative of that 8 billion. But it's like it's not.
Simran:It's the same thing with Palestine.
Ryan:Yeah, it's the same thing with Palestine. Like it's the fact that like there are Zionists out there who like genuinely don't think they're in the wrong.
And I'm like I, I cannot fathom that one iota. But like of course you think you're in the right, of course you do. That's, that's the story you live in and the story you're told.
Simran:Yeah, absolutely. So what's the solution? I guess.
Ryan:Yeah, that's a question.
Simran:Yeah, that's the question.
Ryan:There's been like some examples of like news sources, news sites where they're like explicitly include multiple perspectives. So like rather than like the ABC which like just like tries to be neutral, what is neutrality? Great question.
They'll explicitly include the right wing takes on a news thing and the left wing takes and kind of like expose you to like this is kind of what happened, this is what this team is saying. This is what this team is saying.
And for example there was this one site called the Perspective, this is a Science Direct article I read which found that amongst 400 respondents, those that read more articles that explicitly include both perspectives were more open minded towards in this case study they looked at Black Lives Matter than the control group weren't looking at like multiple perspectives.
And so like kind of by teaching yourself to be exposed to multiple things you like can redevelop those that critical thinking which like is not taught in schools. And so you can actually like Assess things and make your own decision.
Simran:Interesting. Very interesting.
I mean, I guess it's like very much like practicing that critical thinking skill so that it's like second nature and you don't have to do it so consciously that it becomes a chore then.
Ryan:Critical thinking is hard, though.
Simran:Critical thinking is absolutely hard. But, like, when you're like, mind, like, like, directly goes like, oh, who is posting this? And, like, what did they stand for?
And then therefore, like, you kind of know the context of the story. I feel like we were taught that in school in ib.
Like, that was like, you know, like in history, we're like, okay, so this is where the source is from. But, like, who is the sources from? And, like, what is their history with whatever that they're saying?
And we're like, lucky enough that, like, we've kind of, like, brought that through in our lives. Maybe that in a sense, like, if you continuously, like, practice it, then it becomes second nature.
Ryan:I recently got an ad for a play.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And so I. I get like, lots of Instagram ads for plays, because plays, targeted advertising, works, divas. But it was for. It was basically like, it was called.
I'm not going to say what it was called, but it was describing itself as a play that celebrates the beauty of masculinity. And I was like, interesting, because, like, that is interesting.
And I think as an artist, I think there is something in exploring the beauty of masculinity. That specific phrase is interesting to me.
So I clicked on it and I was trying to read through, like, the bio and I was like, I can't decipher what they're trying to say. So I like, look up the playwright. Playwright attended the. All the protests during lockdown.
The anti lockdown protests, regularly attends them, has a podcast, like an anti vaxxer podcast. And so then I go back and look at this play and I'm like, reading it and I'm like, oh, like, they're using these words to talk about masculinity.
And like, what I would interpret, it's almost be like a queer, subversive feminist lens, but, like, meaning it in such a different way. And I was like, I'm have. It's such a mind. Also the fact that a member of the alt right is making a play.
I was like, I thought only leftists made theater.
Simran:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ryan:Which was like, shocking to me. But yeah, I always find it so interesting when, like, you get alt right or, like, far right stuff across my feed and, like, I love consuming it.
Is that problematic?
I don't know, for example, you know how there's that trend of, like, alt right folks who go into public places and film and they're like, oh, I'm just conducting an audit. And basically they're just like, trying to provoke people and trying to, like, prove that the left doesn't like people film.
Yesterday I spent about, about two hours just watching videos of, like, these interactions with, like, police, and they were, like, going to, like, to public libraries and stuff in Melbourne just like, watching, like, these interactions where people are like, you, you just can't. And they're like, no, no, no. But it's, it's, it's legal. I can.
And it's just so interesting the way that like, even, like, the way they speak is so couched in, like, all these euphemisms and stuff. Anywho, I feel like it was good to expose myself to all that, to like.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:Interpret that more correctly.
Simran:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess it's like, again, that's where like, the critical thinking skills come in.
Because, like, if you' exposing yourself to it and you get exposed to it, you know, like, there's the chance, the risk that you, like, kind of like, adopt the thinking.
Ryan:Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Simran:And that's the point of the videos, I guess, you know?
Ryan:Yes.
Simran:So I guess moral of the story is saying that communities and different communities have always existed and sometimes you won't know about a separate community until you're exposed to it. But I think the isolation of those communities is exacerbated by social media.
Ryan:Yes, but then also. So here's a hot take. Maybe also the Internet is our salvation.
Simran:Okay, Tea?
Ryan:Because I think, and like, this is like, wildly and maybe like, stupidly optimistic.
I feel like because you do the Internet in private, for the most part, you can, like, engage with ideas you may disagree with without having to perform your reaction to them. Does that make sense?
Simran:Yes.
Ryan:Like, if I was having a dinner with you and our friends and I said, actually I like Trump's policies, I'd get shut down. But privately, I don't like Trump.
Simran:For the record, don't click this. Clip this.
Ryan:Yeah, but privately I can, like, go and research Trump's policies and, like, engage with them without having to, like, respond to them.
Simran:Yeah.
Ryan:And then in that privacy, like doing the Internet privately, I can decide how I want to feel about that. And I feel like maybe that's good.
Simran:Yeah, I think it's good. Also, like the.
Have you seen those ads of saying that, like, you can basically cancel out your, your partner's or, like, father's vote from Kamala's campaign.
And it was basically saying that, like, if you're in a partnership where your husband is, like, pro Trump, you can still, like, the vote is anonymous. So, like, you can still vote for if you want to.
Ryan:I mean, they were funded by Kamala's campaign, but they weren't even saying, vote for Kamala. It was just like, your vote is private.
Simran:Yeah, yeah.
Ryan:That was the whole, like, message. That's brilliant campaigning.
Simran:But I guess the other side of the coin is that it also allows people to be their most, like, unhate self, you know?
Ryan:Yeah.
Simran:Like, that's where like, online bullies come from.
Ryan:And incels.
Simran:And incels. Yeah. So I guess there's like, two parts of the spectrum of it, and it's how do you regulate that?
Ryan:Yeah. Brave new world.
Simran:Brave new world, baby.
Ryan:Anywho, well, I'm gonna keep using Instagram.
Simran:I'll keep using Tick Tock.
Ryan:Should we check out?
Simran:Let's.
Ryan:What was the favorite Halloween costume that you saw?
Simran:Cub Sport being Camila Cabello and Shawn Mendes walking slowly on their, like, COVID lockdown walks. I was like, everything to me.
Ryan:I saw someone being Cub Sport and I was like, brilliant.
Simran:Well, I once spilled a drink on Cub Sport, and that's, you know, one of the members, and it was very exciting for me.
Ryan:Core memory. Yeah. I saw one of our friends who dressed up as, like, the red devil from the Powerpuff Girls.
Simran:Oh, yeah.
Ryan:And it was such, like, a perfectly executed costume. I was like, yeah, you are in the Powerpuff Girls universe.
Simran:Yeah. Tea. Bring back Powerpuff Girls.
Ryan:No, bring them back.
Simran:Yeah. They could save the day for sure. Thank you so much for listening. If you like this episode, please tell a friend and leave us a review.
It'll be so, so helpful.
Ryan:We'll see you next week.
Simran:Love you by CIA.
