Metabolizing Shame: The World is Burning and We are Creating

Nic, Kelsey, and Amalia take advantage of the trust established amongst them to observe and digest their experiences of Shame when it comes to prioritizing their joy, creativity, peace, and satisfaction, even as the World Burns.

This is a raw and powerful conversation offering listeners an opportunity to challenge the black and white narratives that keep them in a disempowered freeze state and to calibrate to new conceptualizations that carry potential for real transformation. 

They discuss:

• Shame, Fear & Safety: how shame arises, how fear underlies it, and what conditions and capacities allow it to be metabolized rather than suppressed.
• Reflections on proximity to harm and the shame of being privileged while others suffer
• Creative Integrity in Crisis: staying connected to joy, art, and personal well being “while the world is burning.”
• The contrast between genuine embodied care and the social-media / shame based pressure to perform grief, outrage, or political awareness.
• Attunement vs. Shoulds: distinguishing inner guidance from the mental “should” voices that dictate what one ought to feel or do in the face of violence and oppression 
• Self-attuned Creative Living as a political and spiritual act.
• The fear of being exiled and the role of self rejection in the current State of things

🧪 This episode's Lab Partners:

• Nic is a 4/6 Sacral Generator with Probability View
• Kelsey is a 5/2 Emotional Manifestor with Power View
• Amalia is a 4/6 Emotional Generator with Personal View

You can find more about them and their other lab partners at kelseyrosetort.com/labpartners, including bodygraphs, natal charts, and ways to connect with their work.

💖 Stay tuned: New episodes of LAB PARTNERS are released weekly-ish, usually on the Moon’s day.

Intro & Music by Noah Souder-Russo

Lab Partners is a behind the scenes conversation series amongst eight folks who are in a season of experimentation with creativity, authenticity, relationship, collaboration and visibility. We're letting you in on our processes as we unpack them together.

Each of us speak the language of human design and some of us astrology as well. These frameworks for awareness have supported our embodied differentiation and relational understanding.

We invite listeners to observe us through these lenses too.

Today's conversation is between me, Nick Strack, a 4,6 sacral generator with probability view.

Me, Amalia, a 4.6emotional generator with personal.

View and me, Kelsey, 5,2emotional manifestor with power View.

You can learn about our astrology and designs in the show notes and find even more about us and our other collaborators@kelseyrosetort.com/LabPartners.

Cool. Do you feel like introducing that little plan, Amalia and getting us going?

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

So we're thinking that we might check in with each other.

I introduced this because I'm playing with how we can playing with dropping in and how can we find the thread that links us all and maybe links our listeners too quicker or more efficiently? What are the different ways that we are able to do that?

So I was thinking this morning that maybe we would start by just checking in with each other and like what we're carrying this Sunday morning that we're recording and also like what intentions we maybe have for this time together.

And we did not check in with each other prior to pressing record.

Yeah, yeah, we're doing this in process. Does one of you feel like doing that first?

I do. Hey everyone, it's Nick. I'm in a weird mood today. Like it's. I don't know.

What I haven't identified for myself what my experience of, like, melancholy is. But I wonder if this might be, like, a flavor of that. Because I feel kind of, like, subdued, but I don't feel, like, sad. So it's just.

I would describe it as lower than my usual. Just in the subdued sense. Energy. And also I'm so clear that I have so much energy for this conversation.

So my intention today is really, like, showing up really where I'm at. And I already noticed before coming on the call, like, oh, should I be, like, recording in this kind of a mood? Like, this isn't my usual tripper.

So already I am doing my intention and want to continue to. Yeah, just, like, show up here as me with whatever wants to come through.

You go next if you feel like it.

I'm feeling. I'm feeling tired and sad and I've been feeling really anxious. Like, I've been feeling a lot of social anxiety and dealing with a lot of insomnia.

But I'm also curious about this insomnia if it's like. Like I have a hunt.

Like, I'm, like, curious if part of what this current bout of insomnia is doing is trying to, like, aggressively change my rhythm to, like, going to bed a lot earlier and then waking up really earlier, really early. Because when I wake up really early, I like, like this space. Like, I like that it's dark. I like that, like, I'm. Yes.

I'm, like, thinking so fast, and a lot of it is, like, anxiety or just, like, mind stuff. But a lot of it is also, like, potent. And I like, have some of the best ideas at that time.

So I'm in this, like, sort of body moment of, like, of adjusting. And I think sitting with the anxiety and also being like, there's anxiety here, but there's also, like, excitement. And. Yeah.

So I think I'm like, just. I'm feeling. I'm feeling a lot of energy that's, like, kind of uncomfortable. But also I think I'm, like, trying to play with it a little bit.

And that's where I come. That's the storm I've been in.

I guess it's not really a storm, but it's like, maybe a whirlpool or something like that that I've been in today already. And my intention is to feel loose in this conversation. Like, even as I'm present with the social anxiety and the anxiety.

And we're going to be talking about shame and anx, or I'm gonna be talking about it at least and like, even with that like my intention, like I'm really interested in being like not curated, not like thinking too much about people hearing me. Like, I just, I'm just like honestly trying to have like a conversation with two people that I think are so awesome.

So I'm just trying to get out of the way. That's my intention.

I'm fine. Yeah, I've just been like.

I typed it out this morning in my, in the alumni channel on the orbit field discord that I feel like I've more often than not been in like transference fog for like a whole month at this point. And I'm always so curious. Like any. Anytime I'm here where I'm like, ugh, it's just cloudy, like the transference is just the weather right now.

And then anytime I'm like here for a prolonged amount of time and then or freshly on the other side of it, like the clouds have parted, I'm always like, I tend to come back around to this conceptualization of like there was no choice in that. Like just was cloudy and then it wasn't. And I'm always so curious about that. Tag it for our cosmology conversation, Nick. Like, right. Like I.

Because I don't feel like I'm doing it. I honestly don't even feel like I'm choosing the state of relaxation when it relax like when it. I don't necessarily feel that I had any agency in it.

So I'm kind of feel like I'm taking a very like, I don't know, passive in a way role in my life right now. Just kind of like waiting for the clouds to pass by.

But at the same time as I'm watching it, I am seeing more and more clearly the way that I'm engaging with not self narratives that perhaps are keeping me in the fog longer than I need to be. So I'm just kind of. That's like what I was thinking about ahead of this call because I was typing that out elsewhere.

Also, like, I think I mentioned this to you both yesterday.

I've been listening to the type lectures of my LYD podcast because I've been like nervous about them coming out because I'm like, what was I saying about type two years ago? You know? And I listened to the manifestor ones this week and it was just like crazy.

I just got schooled by a 2 year old, 2 year ago version of me and I was like, oh yeah, there's so much not self manifester shit that I'm like trying to, to wrangle right now or I'm trying to wrangle things in a very not self manifester way.

So yeah, I'm just having a moment where I'm like these moments are always so fruitful that there's a part of me that's like so nourished by them that some part of me is feeling really great right now because I'm watching like myself understand again more clearly and like feeling kind of mesmerized with the mechanics of it all, you know, so there's the innocence. There she is. But yeah, it's just, I feel just kind of like tired.

Like I, I want not even like physically tired, just like I really miss the feeling of the freedom of the spaciousness in front of me. And it's felt like yeah, I haven't like gotten a real good feeling of that in a while.

It's just felt like there's a lot on my plate and a lot that I have to try to keep up with and that's just like not a good feeling for me. Like anytime it feels like there's things I have to keep up with that take away from the spaciousness and the freedom of possibility in front of me.

It's just like those are just not the conditions for me to enjoy myself in any way. I think I'm like wanting to challenge this binary though of like those aren't the conditions for me to show up in integrity.

So that's, I'm kind of like, yeah, playing with some binary stuff right now where I'm like maybe this gets into my intention for today is like this will be like maybe the third or fourth lab partners feature of me where I've been like self assessed like in kind of distortion. And I don't feel that I've been not in integrity. So that's interesting. So that's kind of what I'm watching is I'm like in a little bit of a funk.

It's difficult. I'm having a little bit of a difficult time finding yeah, finding like peace. Like it's, it's.

There's not been a ton of peace on the micro levels of my days lately. And yet I don't feel that the anger is like necessarily requiring me to show up in some kind of distorted way.

Maybe because I'm not, not repressing it. Like I'm just being honest with myself about it. I don't know. So yeah, that's mentally how I'm orienting to my situation.

Um, so yeah, just like trying to continue to be at peace. With being perceived in anger and irritation perhaps. And yeah, I'm curious in terms of intention for today too.

I don't know if this feels like something we want to hit on together next is like intention for the topic as well. I was kind of wanting to also check in with you both on. So we had framed this per Nick's I think. Was it in your idea?

Was it our idea and you put it in the doc? Don't know.

We had framed it as like the shame around being a creative while the world is burning like focusing on our experiences of art and creativity and satisfaction and peace on a personal level while the world gestures wildly. And like you both also calling in from the Chicago area which feels relevant in this moment. Me having a lot of history and roots in Chicago.

Yeah, I'm kind of curious to check in with you also about like was a livery that shame right now? Because I actually don't feel any shame around that right now, like in this moment.

But I have and I feel like I work a lot with like specifically helping people alchemize that particular thread of shame. And I'm sure it's in me, you know, just in this moment. It's like doesn't feel like a knot that needs to tangled for me.

I can, I don't think I have like a full complete answer to that, but I imagine.

Well, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have as we go on podcast episode if you did. Probably.

Totally. Totally. I, I, you.

I think what's alive in this moment is that I've been tracking, you know, I said I, I've been having social anxiety which has showed up a lot with y' all like in this container because a lot of my like interactions with people on a day to day basis right now are with the, the seven of you guys and, and also like y' all are like a quotes group. And there's always more anxiety for me with like groups rather than like one on one interactions or something like that.

Um, anyway, I okay from there I think that I've been tracking like just in the last week, one situation in a conversation that we were all having and one in my 3D life which still exists. I have to remind myself sometimes where I just noticed a lot of like fragility come up.

I mean there's a lot of words I could use for it, but I think like one of them feels like fragility in terms of like identity stuff or like privilege. And I think I just noticed that because I don't like it feels particular like that's not that common that I'm.

I'm like regularly tracking myself constantly as a hyper vigilant person obsessed with self awareness. And I. Yeah, I think I just. The fact that that came up for me like twice in the last week.

I've been thinking about that and like reflecting on what might that be, like why or what, you know, any. Just curious about it.

And I think I don't necessarily have answers in this moment, but I think that, yeah, I think like all that I can say in this moment is that I'm like. I think it's very possible that that's. It's alive because of the severity of what's happening on the ground in Chicago in this moment.

And just to name it, ice has descended in like a really, really intense way in a way that is close to what's been going on in D.C. recently. And I'm saying that partly to ground us and partly to say this is.

Who knows when people will be listening to this recording and that's what's happened. And I experienced that in a really.

My experience of that was being away for four weeks from Chicago and then coming back to a Chicago that felt really different to me. Yeah. So it felt really abrupt. It may have felt that way for everyone that was here already too, but I only have my own experience.

So anyway, I think that feels alive and I'm curious about if there's collective energy trails that have found their way into me.

These privilege feels weren't necessarily connected to being a creative, except for the fact that that is who I am and so it's all connected within me. But anyway, that's what feels present in this moment for me.

I feel like the privilege conversation is a massive part of this theme as it's. As it. I understand it for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Shame about not being the one experiencing the most dense version, the most in your face version of like, what's a better way of saying that? Because I'm not trying to dance like violence. Yeah. Like, shame about not being the most disempowered, unsafe, traumatized person in this moment.

AKA privileged.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

This, it's, it's.

I'm so glad that we're talking about this.

I have so much shame stuff that comes up around my, like, what I think a lot of people would probably think of as like ostrich in the sand kind of approach to news, but to me it's much more like I'm away in a room and Eric. Eric is my news summary person. And basically it's like we have agreed that I take in the news on a need to know basis.

And like that I need to know means that it's immediately and presently impacting like our daily lived life right now in such a way that I need to take different actions or do different behaviors. Like that's how serious for me, like how specific it needs to be.

And so even though just like down the street, so to speak, like Chicago, all of this stuff is happening, I am feeling quite removed from it. Both like in terms of how I'm living my life in my little micro family, but also just like in the suburbs where we live. And so it's.

I have found it interesting to watch myself try to avoid the shame, like try to mentally gymnastic away from feeling the actual shame of like, you know, like these pieces that we're talking about, like, oh, what is privilege?

Even?

Like all these different things. And so then I'll be like, whoa, I have brown skin. Well, like I have this, like I'll start to my mind tries to like pull in reasons why.

Like it does this fucking scorekeepy thing. And it's all, it all feels like a continuation of the same, right? It's like all of this fake hierarchy of people thing.

And so my mind is trying to do that with social identity. It's just like.

But the high, like the, the fake mental hierarchies are very really enacted, you know, Like I'm not, I don't mean to disregard that the way that systems of oppression are working are 100% as intended and are based on like fake made up distinctions that don't need to be the reasons why we're doing. I'm gonna stop that, stop that thread for now.

But yeah, so that's what I've been having shame come up around recently too of like, oh, it's very close to me. And someone even texted me like hey, what's the. Like what are the vibes in Chicago or something? And I felt like I felt shame that I didn't know.

And then I was like, well, should I know? And then it turned into a whole thing. So yeah, that's. That's all with me here today as well as I'm like live exploring those questions for myself.

Like, because there's a difference between like what should I be paying attention to and what does my energy in integrity actually have the energy for to pay attention to.

Nick, I'm wondering if it's like.

You.

Have this kind of system that helps you feel at ease with what feels organic for you in Terms of how you engage or don't engage with the news cycle and the news cycle. It's not just the news cycle. I want to name that. We'll use different words to talk about the stuff we're gesturing at. Right, right.

Like, it's difficult to articulate exactly what it is, but it is violence, oppression, trauma. Like, we know that.

I don't think that there's any, like, significant distorted bypassing happening, but I could feel like calling it the news cycle can feel that way. But, like, I just want to name myself and I trust for both of you that, like, we're not trying to minimize the gravity of this shit.

But yeah, I'm wondering like, if I'm curious. Like, so there.

So you have this kind of like, way that you and Eric navigate it together and then, then the circumstances changed in a way where it's like, okay, now it's closer to me. Now it's like my relative neighbors now people from outside of my region are asking me about it.

And so that kind of like changes the situation a little bit. And yeah, I'm just wondering, I guess, kind of like mechanically about your experience of that or your reflections on that.

Because, like, to put it plainly, if these circumstances changing needed to. Required a shift in your orientation to it, you would have a response for that.

I believe so.

Yeah. Right. And so you don't.

Correct.

Or at least at this point there's not been a response to like, maybe I need to reevaluate my relationship to my attention.

Right.

There's not been a response, which I've been to it.

Right. There's like, I mean, I did.

I have.

And then it's kind of like a. How often do I. I'm also.

Yeah.

Like, how often do I check in on it? So, yeah, we did. Like, because it's been several weeks now and so, yeah, my attention. And I still. Yeah.

Haven't had a response to do anything differently currently. While also, like, yeah, I am on Instagram. I know that, like, I do. It's not like I don't see what people post in their stories.

I just don't rabbit hole on them myself. And I go to Eric for like, the deeper stories. That's kind of what I mean by he's like my person for that.

I also wonder if there's like a framing in here too that could be useful to point out of, like, you're actually not. Not responding to it.

Right.

Like, you are navigating it.

True, true.

Navigating it in honor of the energy that your Body is moving you towards or away from in the moment. Like, you're here. This is part of it, right?

True.

This is in ways, the response to it.

Mm, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just so. It's so challenging to just watch, or it's just so present, I think, to watch.

Like, every time more horrifying violence happens, like, I. I watch myself go through a really similar process. And I am thinking. I'm just thinking it's grounding for me to think about the mechanics of myself. I think there's shame even in that.

I'm like, oh, like, you know, I'm like, I'm gonna be thinking about human design in the face of death and deportation and, like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, that. This is.

That's the beginning, you know, that. That is the process of the part of what I go through.

And I think I'm still in this moment and constantly holding onto mechanics because they feel so true and so real and, like, a grounding force to me and a way of not bypassing energy. And mechanically, I'm like. I'm so open that I think, like, that was a lot of my experience.

Like, I was voice noting Kelsey, when I first got back and I was walking through the park, and I'm just feeling. I felt so much fear. Like, I felt the presence of fear, and I felt my own. Like, I felt that in my body, you know, totally open spleen.

And I felt so much grief, like, around how empty and quiet my. Like, my streets. Like, the streets were. And, like, I think, where am I trying to get here? I think the.

The, like, mechanically speaking, I think my openness has to do with, like, what I'm processing. And then I'm like.

I think what I come back to often in these, like, spirals of, like, being again, like, really present to destruction and, like, devastation and, like. Like, it. It hits me in my heart so deeply.

The.

Like, just when I see humanity being or, like, when I. Like, when I'm privy to humanity being disrespected, obviously this is more than that, but any version. Like, when.

Whenever I'm privy to, like, like, someone's autonomy, someone's body, someone's humanity being disrespected.

Like, I feel it.

Like, my. I think maybe my defined ego feels really, really like, I'm like.

That's when I, like, it's like this, like, anger or this, like, line comes out, and I am, like, warrior, and, like, that comes out from me without me even. Like, it just comes through me in this, like, very forceful way. And I can like tap into that in this moment, feeling this.

And like, that feels true for me. And then it feels good to be like, okay, that's where you are. That's where my care is. Like.

And then there's this, like, that's part of it is me being like, okay, great, cool. I'm not totally, like you said, Nick, like ostrich in the sand. Like, I. I have this care.

And I'm also like, I don't know, like the scope of like, Like I just. I'm like, what am I here to do besides for witness, be present and move energy? Like, I don't. I just am like, that's.

And whether I'm like walking around Humboldt park, experiencing it real time, close up, moving the energy that I'm feeling in the form of like fear and trauma, or I'm like totally away. Like, I was on the west coast that was like very far from this and I was still doing a lot of alchemy work.

Like, I was still moving a lot of grief and I was still moving my own shit. And I, like, I don't think one is like, more. I don't know. I don't want to even.

That's the point right there though. Like, that are you following? Like, one is not. There is no homogenized right way.

Yeah.

And like when you were saying, when you were describing that feeling of like when you. When you feel the true version of warrior energy come up in your body.

When you were saying that I started getting this whole like, thing of this is attunement. Right? And like all three of us are very attuned to the not self mental should shit that tells us you should be doing this differently.

You should be showing up in a different way. You shouldn't be thinking about human design right now. You shouldn't be putting time, energy and resources into creativity.

Right?

Like, Right. But we are also, all three of us increasingly attuned to.

To the way that like, the fight and the care show up in our bodies organically, that feels distinctly different to all those things I just listed.

And it's like my experience of it is once I get a taste of like how it actually feels for power and resistance and warrior energy to like come through me. And maybe some of this is like my power view too. Like, I see that what works is being self attuned and being in my power.

And that that's actually, that's actually what works. Third color power view. Like, it doesn't work to be in that. Like, that's a Free state. It's a literal free state.

Like, us worrying about how we're supposed to be showing up.

Right.

Is the most disempowered place we could.

Yeah. And I like, okay, two things came through. We'll see if I can remember both of them.

But, like, one of them is that, nope, I already lost the first one. Okay, we'll go with the second first. That's the. That, like, I just.

I mean, yeah, I'm trying, like, I feel myself trying to hedge, but there's, like, so many soapbox things that want to come out that are not actually what I want to do.

So I'm trying to, like, reel myself.

In, but I don't know, I just. Yeah, I. I'm like. I'm like, I don't know, man. I just think so much of the, like, performative. Like, I. There's this thing that sticks out in my head.

There's something I. A social thing that I used to be part of now, like, a year and a half ago.

And I think that the moment that I was like, I must never be part of this group of people ever again was a moment that we did, like, a. We met. I mean, who knows what horrible things were going on. There's literally always horrible things happening and.

And we met and, like, did a check, like, check in, like, go around or whatever. And the way that the person opened the check in was like, it was like, I'm X, Y, Z.

And like, basically the check in question was like, how are you coping with how horrible everything is right now? And, like, there's like, probably a version and a setting for that question to not be as horrible as it was for me in that moment.

But, like, it was the most fucking performative. Like, we're not allowed to be anything besides for, like, sad boy right now, because otherwise we would be bad people.

And, like, what that brings me to is this, like, okay, I got the thing. The things are back. So one of them is, like, when we were. When we were first talking about this, like, I think there's just.

There was this wordplay that came up for me of, like, simultaneously, the world is burning, and I'm afraid of being burned at the stake. And I just think that there's, like, something about this burning. Like, I don't like the wordplay.

Maybe it's just wordplay, but, like, maybe there, like, really is something. Like, for me, there's just like, there's something about this, like, fire that I'm like, what are we using fire for? You know?

And, like, why Is it only, like, it's so often destruction. And I think there's, like, as we witness all of this violence, that for me, so much of the violence does come down to exiling.

You know, like, there's so much there, and it's like, so much of, like, power grabbing. So much of this shit is about exiling.

And I'm like, and then what do we do to each other is like, we try to exile each other if we're not, like, performing grief and like.

And then we're exiling the parts of ourselves.

Exactly. Because we're fucking scared of getting exiled, at least is what I feel like. And so I'm like. And that's so, like, that's a lot of the.

Like, this is part of my process that I have to come back to is like, if what is here for me is, like, joy and excitement about. I'm part of collaboratory now, and I'm, like, starting to create in all these ways and whatever.

Like, and that what's here for me, Like, I don't like that. Like, I just am, like, I don't. It is not correct for me to exile that so that I. It's like, why. Why am I abandoning that?

Like, I have to follow myself through this process.

And it's like, why am I abandoning that to go like, get stuck in, like, grief and not grief, but, like, the shame and the freeze moment that you were talking about. And I. It's like, because of this exiling. It's because of fear. It's because of fear of getting exiled. That's what it is for me. And I think.

Yeah, I think the other thing. I won't say much more in this moment, but I think the other thing that wanted to be said is just I talk a lot.

And we literally just recorded an episode last week about grief as alchemy. And I so often feel I'm here to grieve, and I know how to grieve, and I know how to open and do that.

But I'm like, joy is also alchemy, and that is this other fire. I'm like, we can't only be burning fires to destroy. Like, we also have to be burning fires to create fires. Literally, creation.

And, like, tending to our joy and creation is also part of the world. Like, the point of the world burning is so that we can create new things. Like, if we burn it all down and we don't do, like, what is the. Like.

Yeah, that's all for now.

Well, okay. You said scope a little while back, and then Like. Cause scope is such a huge part of what affects how I'm feeling.

Because essentially it's like, at what? Like, oh, God, no. Scope is turning into. Sorry, scope is turning into like semantic satiation.

So I'm like, I don't know how to use scope in a sentence scope. But it's like, what. What is this? What is the scope?

Context. Context helpful.

It's like, okay, I'm going to try a completely different. Just like, what is the level of zoom that I am considering when you're asking me how I'm feeling?

Because I'll tell you what, I don't experience the shame of not being informed when I'm just thinking about me and my peeps in this household, right? Like, if I'm looking at Instagram and connecting to the outside world and other people's opinions of how.

What I might be doing, then that's when shame comes in. I don't actually experience the shame when it's just me and Eric and the kids. Like, I feel clean and clear about it there.

So I feel like, yes, like, the scope of exploration, like, how zoomed in or zoomed out am I. If I'm at the level of strangers are going to judge me based on what I do or don't post in my stories.

There's a lot of space for shame to come in at that. Intangible and widely, widely scoped. I'm now using it like, that kind of level, but it's also, like, obscure.

And my shame can thrive there because there's still so many mysterious voices that it can churn up when I'm. When I'm letting it, when I. Like when I say okay, and then in.

I'm also considering Instagram when the scope is just me and my kids and my husband, we're chill. But then if I consider Instagram now, everything's getting changed. And that's because the.

This. The.

Yeah, just the level of eyes or the number of the number of eyes. And that's a huge part of this because the fucking performative aspect of it.

Like, because the actual individual in, like, the differentiated approach to what am I going to do in this moment and the next moment and the next moment. Like, it's going to be so different for every person. But we're out here putting stuff in the stories.

Like, well, if you're not feeling depressed when you see X, Y, Z, this is why you're bad for that. Like, stories that say shit like that.

And I get where people are coming from and it's probably going to, like, you know, shame some people into agreeing with them. But it's just. For me, that doesn't. It's not addressing the foundational, relational aspect of what's happening. Kelsey, what do you have?

At the risk of sounding like a cocky bitch, when you've stopped feeling disempowered by the presence of your own shame, when you've alchemized your own personal experience with shame, and this isn't a black and white thing, like, it's. It just shifts one day. Or is it, like, when you've alchemized your shit around shame? There's.

It's like, you see that shame is the reason for all of this.

Right?

Like, it's just. That's evident. And so anybody using the tool of shame and calling it a tool of empowerment.

Yeah.

They have not done the shame excavation needed to actually create a different way of being in relationship to self and each other in the world that won't lead to just as much violence and trauma. So, like, Nick, when you were like, I see where they're coming from, I'm like, okay, I see where they're. But I literally rolled my eyes.

Yeah.

You know, because, like, I see where they're coming from, and it's the same place that literally our oppressors are coming from.

Yeah. It's like a micro expression of that.

Ooh.

Yeah.

And, like, coming back to attunement, I'm thinking about, like, part of the reason that collaboratory is powerful, part of the reason that I believe so much in what we're doing with lab partners, part of the reason that this conversation feels important to me is because we're reattuning to a way of being in relationship to the horrors of the world that is different from the ones bred by our shame.

And, like, that's where it's like, you know, I'm always on my Aries pulpit, bringing in the self responsibility piece, which is a truth that I do not think we can negotiate with, and I think reckoning with that truth is a massive part of the current curriculum for the collective. And you also need. We also need. I also need the experience of calibrating to reality outside of my body, outside of my form, to. What's the word?

Like, corroborate? Is that maybe a good use of that word, like, to corroborate, to vibe, to like. Like, manifest this stuff that is alchemizing within me.

Like, it's only within me until it meets the outer world and some kind of relational, communal externalization experience of it. Can take it to the next step. And so like we have to do our own shame excavation enough to be able to show up to each other in this. In this setting.

Right. Amalia, Nick and Kelsey to be able to say to each other, I experience shame around this, but I am not giving into that shame.

Like, we have to first cultivate inside of us the conditions where we can bring it to someone and say, actually, actually. And then we are doing. We are already creating a new reality between the three of us. Right.

And like being able to bring these parts of ourself and let these other things catch fire. The other way of being in relationship to the horrors and to our art and to our joy.

Yeah, I think I'm. Oh, sorry, go on.

Just was. I was like looking for a way. Yeah, always looking for a way to punctuate it.

So I feel like I've talked about this with both of you in the last few days that, that tick. But the way that did come up to punctuate it this time is like it's back to the investment divestment thing.

Like I'm divesting from the shame endorsed way of being. And in, in doing that, what am I investing in? On one way I could answer that is like my piece.

One way I could answer that is like creating something that exists outside of this shame based structure.

Another way I could answer that is like I'm investing in authentic conversation with the two of you about the complexities of this experience and what my body actually shows me is true and works and is empowered. And I'm investing in like letting other people receive the benefit of the attunement that we're doing today by sharing this conversation.

Yeah, I think. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead. Amalia.

Are you sure?

I wrote it down. I'll come back.

I. I'm like this thing that I think what you just punctuated, Kelsey, is, is like similar to.

Again, I have these like two different thoughts that are probably the same thought, but like one of them was like what you were just talking about with investment and divestment. Like, I think I'm thinking about this. Like. Yeah, okay, so the two thoughts, one of them is about fear.

And I think I've talked about this, but I've just. I've been thinking about fear so much and I. I'm like curious about this is, you know, whatever my like usual emotional masturbation maybe.

But I think it's like, what is like fear and shame? Like there's. I'm sure that shame exists in ways that are, like, not necessarily about fear, maybe. I'm sure about that. But, like, I don't know.

Right now I feel like I can always find fear in my own shame, you know, there's always shame because of fear of what? It's like when I notice shame. What's the fear? Like, there's always fear somewhere. And I hear that a lot in this.

And I think related to this whole, like, I don't know. I. I just. Yeah, I want to say that.

And I think, like, in this piece, that's like, okay, so that's related to the second thing, which I started talking about with this, like, divest or leading from Kelsey's divestment comment. Like, I think there's something about deconditioning to a certain level that it's like.

Like, speaking for myself, I feel like I've deconditioned to a level that I get to have fun now living my life, you know? Which, like, was the fucking point. Like, thank God. Holy shit, that's possible. Oh, my God.

And now I'm scared of people knowing that it's possible because I'm scared.

Like, I'm afraid of being, whatever, exiled again, you know, like, and it's just this thing of being like, this is maybe the point of divesting is so that you can get to this place, but then you're like, oh, my God, it's scary over here. Because, like, what if, you know, like, there's, like, this thing of being like, you know, I'm like, it's not cognitive dissonance.

It's deconditioning, you know?

Yeah.

And that feels really true.

Underline that.

Yeah.

Say that again, I think.

Yeah, it's not cognitive dissonance. It's con. Deconditioning. Yeah. And it's like. But it, like.

But I still, of course, have conditioning in me, and that conditioning is like, is it cognitive dissonance? Is it cognitive? Like, are you doing the wrong thing? You know? And I'm like, no, bro, this fucking feels good. I'm telling you.

Like, it feels really good over here. Like, just. Can I just be here, please? And the other parts are still like, but, but, but, but, but. And I'm like, no buts.

Like, I, like, worked so hard to, like, not be governed by the butts, but the butts are still there, and those are the parts that keep me, you know? I'm, like, so grateful to be in this place that are. That, like, I'm. Yeah, the butts aren't leading my life, you know?

And it's like, it's a funny thing.

To see the double meaning of not be governed by the butts.

Listen, I went here so I could be governed by the right butts. That's what I will tell you.

I'm, like, enlivened by this thread of cognitive dissonance, in case that wasn't clear, when I shouted at you to say, beautiful, but I don't want to leave behind the threads Nick had. But I just. Yeah, cognitive dissonance.

I. I think I'm going to want to return to that at some point, because I'm wondering about, like, what's the difference between cognitive dissonance and, like, dissociation and, like, homogenization's tendency to put us in that dissociated free state via cognitive dissonance by convincing us that there is a right way. And then we're just. And then the body. The individual body's way of helping us navigate that. Okay, sorry. I said, let's put it to the side.

And then I put it right here. But I just gave you an appetizer size of it.

I love it. I was having a similar. A thing of, like, when I was listening to Amalia, I was like, oh, my God, listen to the systems working exactly as intended.

When you talk about experiencing joy and then questioning it, you know, like, that's literally what.

Exactly.

It's a cont. And just the thing that I wanted to say was just. I'm realizing, because, Kelsey, you had said shame is the reason for all of this.

And then I realized, I think the more specific thing is, like, an incompetence to metabolize shame.

Because what you were saying is, like, once we get past, it's not like we don't still experience shame, but we are more competent to relate to our own process.

We're not exiling it.

Right. And so it's actually, like, a little more specific than just shame itself.

It's actually like, what is my skill to encounter or be with or metabolize shame?

That.

It's the lack of skill that is at the. Like, that's what's fucking us all up.

Yeah, the shame's not the problem. It's the shame about the shame.

It's the. Well, it's still, like, not knowing how to be with shame. Because even if you feel shame about that, right?

Because, like, ultimately, yes, it's the shame. Chicken or egg? But yes, yes, yes.

Is it shame or shame first? Which one came first? Shame or shame?

Because it's like, okay, if. If shame is a.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh y', all, my fucking brain needs to say this. Okay, so it's like, when we identify it as the incompetence to transmute shame, then we have a specific thing to look at, right?

There's actually, like, a potential way out because it's not shame, because shame is a guarantee before, during, and after all of the transformation. But if the skill is how to be with shame, like, that's something that, you know, for the.

I think I didn't necessarily know for a long time that, like, ultimately that was the thing that would be, like, such a huge part of what I would need to build, because the more I could build my capacity to be with my own shame, then the more I could be with my, like, the more capacity I had to be with my own fullness. So the shame to fullness thing, for me feel really. Yeah.

Related.

So anyways, I think, yeah, my brain wanted to bring it to, like, a practical, ish piece of, like, it feels, I guess, disempowering to be like, well, shame is the reason for all of this. Um, not that you were, like, saying it like some big statement, Kelsey. I literally just wrote it down, and I was like, ooh, I have stuff on this.

So that was my thing. Ouch.

Sorry. Wait, can I ask it? You're saying it feels disempowering to you to say shame is the reason for all this. Is that what you were just saying? Correct.

Like, to point to shame, because shame itself is an experience that is a guarantee for everybody.

Whereas, like, pointing to the specific thing that is missing, which is the skill to be able to be with and transmute the shame, that is what I have as being as the actual thing. Because that the disempowering part of, oh, it's shame means that no one has any control or power over it, I think.

Totally. Yeah, I hear that distinction. Yeah.

Mm. I'm thinking about, like, I've been thinking a lot as several conversations in the lab have been around, like, emotional alchemy lately.

I've been thinking about my first house, Sagittarius moon, and how there's just an innateness to the movement of the energy around shame and a transmutation of the shame. To me, that's just what I'm thinking about as I'm listening to these, like, yeah, very.

What feel, like, very precise, correct, true things that you're saying. Nick, is like, I think. Yeah, is this an innocence thing? I'm just like, yeah, you transmute it.

Yeah.

Like, I think that's maybe a second line thing. Too. I'm just like, the. I didn't. I didn't have to learn how to transmute shame. I don't think I had to learn that.

I don't know if that's true, but that's what it feels like to me. Like, maybe I've become more skillful with it and more aware of what's happening, but, like, not.

Not to say there weren't, like, shames that have sat in my body for a long time, but, like, yeah, to me, that it feels. But I. But I. I agree 100% with what you're saying. I think I just.

It almost confounds me that people can go through so much of life without, like, wrestling and being with. You know, like, I see that. It's true, but it's, like, a thing that I genuinely have a difficult time relating to.

Like, you feel like you've never repressed parts of yourself?

No, no. I 100am always repressing parts of myself, but just, like, the kind, like, being able to trace.

Like, I. I don't have a. I can't think of a moment when I, like, realized that, oh, we have to alchemize this stuff. Like, I feel like I've just been doing that always, but I guess what's.

The difference between that and, like, what's the difference between not realizing you have to alchemize stuff and repressing parts of yourself?

Well, I think there was, like, unconscious repress, like, repression happening. It's kind of like how I sometimes talk about, like, okay, fire. You brought in fire, right? Like, I'm extremely fiery. So much of me is fire.

Yeah.

You know, like. Like, mutation is just, like, what's happening in my system and around me. I'm on the cross of upheaval.

39, 55, you know, like, so I do think it's just, like, this is just, like, the part of the human experience that I kind of, like, exist in. Like, it's the part of. And you both have undefined throats, right? I also have motors to my throat.

So just the process of moving this energy in and out of my body. That's kind of what I was thinking about when I said my first house. Sag Moon. It's right here.

So, yeah, I think it's like, yeah, there's something here to this. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's actually important for this conversation. I just wanted to name that it was coming up for me.

It feels kind of like a. It feels like a second Line thing because I'm like, everything you're saying, Nick, I fully trace and agree with.

And then I immediately am like, I'm not necessarily the person to walk people through that because I didn't have to learn how to do that. Like that happens in my system. But. Oh, the thing I was going to say that when I went here is like.

You know how I sometimes talk about Exalted sun and Aries? Privilege is like. People think it's courage and bravery, but it's actually just an extreme.

In my experience, it feels like an extreme intolerance for discomfort. So like the. The thing that's wanting to be repressed is there, but I get. I don't have the stamina to repress it for very long. So I'm like.

When I'm saying this, I'm not saying it. Like, look everybody, I'm way better at shame transmission.

It's just like once it hits a certain level of my system where it's like undeniably there, like it will be transmuted because I do not have the patience to stay with it any longer.

When it becomes conscious, do you think?

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, when it becomes conscious now, the way the shame shows up then for me. Undefined Ajna shit.

All of us with our hyper vigilance on self awareness stuff is like now I'm like, oh, it's been here for a whole week. Like that's how I arrived to the hall today. Totally. You know, I've been in this fog for a month. What the fuck? I've been in a fog for a month.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like a month for me is a long fucking time to be feeling foggy. Yeah, yeah, but that doesn't mean that I like, like when I clear it, another fog comes in. It's just like a faster. But is this like.

I mean we could look at this so many ways. Like which. Okay, yeah, the. The one of the things that we said we were going to talk about is specific.

Like we're talking about shame, which is very fucking cool. And same around 5th house shit is really what we came here to talk about. Fifth house shit for Nick and other non astrologers.

Like joy, creativity, leisure, fun, satisfaction, generativity, like creation, gestation, creation. Like I live in that space, you know? Like that's. I have a stellium there. My son is there. That is where I have Aries. So like.

Yeah, I guess there's no if I'm in a freeze mode because the world is burning and I'M not letting myself experience joy and creativity as a fifth house fucking sun. You are also a fifth house sun, Nick. Like, as a fifth house Venus. As a fifth house Mercury. I have no life. That is where I live. That is who I am.

Sorry, I don't mean to monopolize this, make it about me. I was like. I was just very. Yeah, I was very. I felt everything you said, Nick. I was like, fuck, yeah.

And then immediately this, like, second line thing came in that was just like, I just do that. And I think it. This is really important. It's very important for people. Yeah. That distinction you made feels very important. And I just wanted to. Yeah.

Process aloud.

I'm so glad, though, like, I. Outside of my experience of relating to shame, like, I didn't have a different one.

So I'm so glad that you're sharing yours because I feel like more people will just get to maybe bounce around their own experience of shame off of, you know, like, hearing what our different ways of navigating it are or have been. Because I do feel like mine. I don't know though. Like, this is so funny. Just, like, on a much more zoomed out level in general.

Just where I'm at right now, deconditioningly speaking, let's say, is like, just really wondering how much control I had over all of the choices and stuff that I made in the past. And so I'm also not holding my mental stories about what used to be true for me as. As the whole picture anymore.

So it's also just like, a lot of things in my mind, I feel like, are all kind of falling apart at the same time.

So.

There was something in there. Shame, Kelsey. I was glad to hear your experience of it. And then, I don't know, some other stuff.

Yeah, well, let's just name. I've had.

I've been having shame come up now about, like, just sharing all of that and, like, shame come up about, like, am I gonna listen back and feel like I'm not even saying what's actually true for me, but I was just like, in the moment trying to, like. Yeah, like, I was excited by what you were saying, and then I was, like, trying to relate to it, you know?

Yeah.

And I think, like, the dis. Yeah. That I just could keep coming back to, like, that distinction is so important.

And I think what happened was it made me wonder why I hadn't seen that distinction as so important.

Oh, interesting.

And then I was like, oh.

Because I feel in my own system, for me, the distinction maybe isn't actually important, but I can see from, like, a practical perspective that that is where, you know, I'm literally. I framed it as, like, I am confounded by that people don't see this, but it's because I'm so in my own experience of it, which is impatient. Right.

Which is, like, not going to sit with it for longer than it has. And that is not universal. So I'm having, like, a very helpful second line shit, like, moment of, like, oh, okay. That is natural to me.

That is not natural to everyone. So when sit here with my angry power view and my channel of judgment and my 17.5 heresy, son, that's like, what. Don't. What aren't you guys getting?

Like, you just showed. You just, like, really articulated for me a thing that a lot of people aren't getting.

And that's, like, very helpful for me to be able to see as somebody who is impatient with. With the speed of transmutation outside of me.

Oh, I love it. I love that. Because it's like, now I feel like I can give your impatience a little bit more of a specific direction to point people in.

Kelsey, do you think, like, was that what just happened, what you just articulated, like, your own momentary shame spiral? Like, was that a microcosm of this thing? Like, were you, like, in this place of being?

Like, what if I am embracing the fact that this thing was easy for me when it's hard for other people?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, because that's kind of what we're talking about, right?

Yes. Yes. That's so related to.

On two episodes ago when you and Noah were like, we've never seen you, like, in a moment of, like, this is what it looks like for me. It's like. And this is like, I take. I take up space and do it right now because I can't do it right now.

It's so meta. It's so interesting. You're so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, first house moon, like, first house fire moon. It's like, it's here with us. The alchemy is in the room, and it's loud and it's bold.

Yeah.

I mean, I've been thinking a lot about safety, right? Because I'm like, okay, well, what does it take to transmute shame? Like, for me, I'm like, again, this connected to that fear piece. I'm like.

I think a lot of it is, like, safety. Like, when you were describing the second line thing, like, of, like, what I.

For me, at least, was this, like, there's a moment, like, what I'M hearing from you is like, once it becomes even a little bit conscious, you're like, time to take up space, time to transmute it in this very fucking moment. But there is a moment where it is repressed. Like, where it's still unconscious. Like, it's only when it's.

It, like, peaks its head out, and then you're, like, ripping it out. Now. Do it now. But before that, it's. No, no. Okay, I think.

Okay, so using this microcosm. This is fucking fun. I think what happened was. It wasn't repressed. It was, like, right here. And I was like, I'm gonna say it.

Because that's what feels natural and organic to me, is like, yeah, here it is. And then I start to realize, oh, I'm taking up a lot of space, and I don't know exactly where I'm going. And am I shaming?

Like, my conditioning as a extremely defined, manifester, single definition, like, my.

I'm.

My conditioning is very different than a lot of people's. Like, it's like I am way too much, and I literally, mechanically am a lot. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's not. It's not a narrative.

Like, I am too much for a lot of people in a lot of moments. And, like, so then it starts coming out. And now I'm like, now I'm starting to repress it. So now I'm like, I'm talking about. And it's happening.

I'm like, oh, am I not supposed to be doing this? Is this too much? And that's where their oppression started. And I think, like, I'm in a season right now of. I'm.

Most of the fucking conversations I'm having are, like, recorded, you know? Like, so I'm, like, really embracing. In the past, I wouldn't be that nervous to show up to a conversation most of the time.

But as this, like, live alchemy, it's vulnerable. It's the thing about second lines. People don't see that we are also extremely fucking vulnerable. It's always about the insecurity of the first line.

But the second line is splenic, binary, too. Like, we're also very vulnerable, but it's. It's not a vulnerability. That's about, like, wanting to protect by getting all of the foundation.

It's like, I'm in the pro. It's happening. I'm not. Like, there's an obtuseness to it, obliviousness to it. It's just happening. And then it's like, oh, it's happening.

Is it okay that it's happening? But it's, like, not something that was prepared for in any way. It's just me.

I use the metaphor a lot of, like, being a voice major in college with a lot of instrumentalists, you know, like, this is me. This is me here. And so if it's being received in any negative way, oh, I'm actually not safe. But I don't. It's not a preparation thing.

So all this to say, like, the. The repression in this microcosm, which I feel like does match the macro of how it works for me, is like, it's. I'm not actually repressing it.

And then it's out. And then it's like this retroactive. Should I have repressed it? And then it starts. Then it starts being distorted. And that's like, what we all saw.

But right now, I'm like. I'm in a container with people that feel safe to me, where I'm like, okay, it's happening. But they.

Nick and Amalia have watched me take up, quote, too much space so many times, and it's okay, right? Exactly. And I have this, like, I'm working with. I'm experimenting right now with this hypothesis that, like, when. That is my uniqueness.

So when I do that, it is actually good for all of us. Like, there's alchemy happening for all of us right now through the microcosm of me taking up too much space.

And I have been fucking insecure about that, and I have shame about that. But I've seen that to be true enough enough times. And I've also just seen it to be fucking inevitable. Which brings me back to choice.

Like, I can't not do this. This is how. This is how energy moves through my system. I can't do this.

I mean, I think that that was what. What I was maybe getting at, though. Like, these pieces where you're like, there is a piece where it's like, you do also feel.

I think my sense of you is like, your mechanics, your astrology, everything about who you are. You're also in some ways, predisposed to feel safer. In some ways, like the exalted sun stuff in your fifth house.

But the element of safety, the being of safety still feels present to me in this conversation. And trying to ripple that outward, I think for me, the experience of safety still feels present in a larger conversation about feeling safe.

Like, shame has to feel safe enough to be able to be surfaced so that it can be released and not released in. I'll Never have shame anymore. Way to Nick's point.

But released in a way that's like, I can have a different relationship with shame and it doesn't need to govern my life. Right. Governed by the butts. Call back. And, like, I think also bringing it back to, like, the fifth house stuff, I think.

I don't know, it's just like, the pain of it all is that I'm like, we want joy so badly. We want a new world so badly. We want all these things. Like, I'm like, Can I say this without. Yeah, I'm, like, trying to not.

I think we want all these things so badly, and we're so scared of actually living in them, you know?

And again, I think deconditioning is about, like, for me at least has a lot of, like, it's like getting to this place where we get to live the world that already is the world that we want, that the world that is already here. Like, and the fear, like, it's like, continuing to work. This part that's like, can I really do this?

I'm like, we have to keep asking this question and answering, yes, yes, we can. This is the fight. The fight is actually the lesson.

This is the actual truth. The actual truth is that we can.

Yes, we can. We can be here. And, like, I don't know. I'm just thinking about so much of the. Like, of course safety is here for me now.

I'm, like, thinking of, like, ceremony I went through recently where, like, I came through it being, like, it is safe to love now. Like, I can just be open now. I can just love. I can just receive love. Like, it's actually safe now.

And, like, so of course I'm like, okay, well, of course I'm bringing safety in then. But I'm like, that just feels so true. It's like, I can want a thing so badly. Want joy, want love, want play, want fun.

But, like, when I really face it, it's like, I'm scared. Like, there's this, like, fear of, like, is that. Yeah, I don't know.

I think I'm just circling around now, but I think, yeah, it's just like, the fucking. Yeah. The world we want, like, the fun we want, the joy we want, the connection we want. Like, the fifth house we want is here. It's in us.

We all have a fucking fifth house, you know, and we get to be there. We get to be there right fucking now. And it doesn't make the violence go away, but the violence doesn't make this go away either.

Like, they are both here right now.

I was really hearing, like, I'm just hearing so much of like capacity building and what you're talking about, Amalia, in the sense of like, if we are so attuned to what's not working and wanting more and chase, chase, chase, then we are. We may not have that capacity to actually be with joy or recognize it or pay attention to it, attune to it, whatever, when it's here.

And I think that's part of what I have.

And it's magic.

And it's fucking magic. And literally magic. It's fucking magic that nothing.

I feel like in the summer I had a really cool opportunity to just take a lot of like mental conditioned expectations off of my plate and really just like sink into focusing on my relationships with myself, my husband and my children. And like, that was really my priority. And I was very surprised to discover how.

I mean, it took, I will say it took like several weeks, I think, for my mind, for the, for my mind's story of all of the capitalismy things of like, I'm like, I should be doing more and more and like the mind, even in the moments where I was like, okay, now I'm gonna rest, my mind was like, no, you're fucking not. Cause you're gonna think about everything that.

You should be doing.

You know, like, it took a few weeks for my body and my mind to kind of both settle into being like, okay, what if for right now my primary responsibilities are like the four of us? And I was very surprised with that.

Like, it genuinely, it genuinely took like a committed effort for me to keep not giving in to my mind being like, do, do, do, do do do do do do do, do, do more, do more, do more. Which isn't to say I wasn't doing anything. It was just I was doing things that felt more led by my body. I was doing more creative stuff.

Random quote, unquote, random things just because they felt fun. Oh my God, how dare I, right? And like these things.

But it really genuinely took like a capacity building, like, pay attention to that stuff, to then like prioritize that stuff, to like, to be with myself. Because sometimes it takes my bi.

It takes me a while to drop into my own creative space and process because my mind is like, oh my God, can we really. Is this really, truly, you know, like, it's still my habit is still that I. That doing things for fun is a waste of time.

That like resting my body means that I'm lazy and lazy is wrong and bad. That like Anything creative, any sort of creative expression that comes out of me should be monetized in some sort of a way.

Like, all these different things, you know, like, these habits of thought that my brain has been wiring. I am actively rewiring them in slightly different directions, it feels like.

But yeah.

So to circle back to what you were saying, Amalia, the capacity building feels like a huge. A huge piece of what's missing. Because when people maybe have maybe there, the joy is there. And like, you're saying the joy is there.

It's available right now. And do they have the skill, intent, and attention to put toward that?

I'm kind of interested in, like, looking straight into the eyes of the narratives or the opinions or the mindsets, whatever they are, the judgments that are, like, why don't we think we can have that? Like, yes, we. It's shame. Yes. But, like, can we actually. Can we. What are the. What are we saying to ourselves? What are people saying to themselves?

Like, let's look at it. Because this group of three has a very, very, very wide capacity to be with our shame. Like, you know, and to be with it, with each other.

So maybe let's take this opportunity to, like, let's look at that shit. Why? Why can't you. What. What is coming up in you that says, why? Why can't I enjoy?

Why can't I look out the window, the literal window of my apartment in Chicago or the window of my Instagram screen where all three of us have shit, tons of people in the city of Chicago? These, like, incredibly, like, objectively horrible things happening. Why can't I still.

Why do I think I can't enjoy also creating while I'm watching that?

Okay, well, this brings in a whole piece that I also have thought about of, like, what our nervous systems are literally capable of. Like, just the.

The, like the technological advances in this one period of time that we've been alive or like, ish, since, like, you know, the 80s till now, let's say.

The scope of what we are taking in and the frequency with which we're taking it all in also is tremendously complicating this conversation, because suddenly, because of Instagram, now, I need to care about people in every. I must actively and showing, like, performatively care about people in every single fucking corner of the globe.

And the truth for me is, like, I don't have the capacity to care about 8 billion people. I think there's a part of it for me that's. I guess I just needed to say that, like, I think I, I, I hold myself. Wow. I'm, like crying.

Yeah.

I think there's this aspect of the Instagram part which I think has just, it has exacerbated the structures that were already within me of, like, doing things for myself is selfish in the bad way. Selfish is always bad. You need to be selfless. Selfless is the goal.

So caring about other people, like, allowing myself, this is that I'm daring to let myself care about myself, my energy, my time, how I want that to be feeling and how I want to move my energy, I'm like, daring to let that be in a moment more important than what somebody else wants or something, you know, like, in that way, it does feel like a. Yeah, just like that.

Core, core.

Some of the really core people pleasing, like, self betray in order to please others kind of stuff. For me, a lot of the shame comes down to that.

Like, how dare I take time for myself when the house is messy and I have children who want to spend time with me and da da da, da, da, da da.

I have so many answers to this important and beautiful question. Thank you for asking it, Kelsey. I think that one, one answer here is like, for me, I think of my ancestors.

Like, I was raised by Holocaust survivors and I was raised with this. Like, like, my grandfather used to talk. One of the stories I was told over and over again was his role. He was in Auschwitz and he carried.

He, like, this is about to get graphic, but he like, his role in Auschwitz. And actually part of why he survived was to cart dead bodies to the city center and then back every day.

And he would talk about the people's shutters as he walked down this, as he carted down the street, he would see shutters close. And so I was raised with this story of, like, don't be the person that closes those shutters. Don't look away.

And I think I still do, like, carry in me a deep desire to witness. And I think for me it's about, like, in this moment at least, what feels important.

And I don't think I strike the balance in the way I would like to a lot of the time. But I think what I strive for, like, what feels like, what I would like is to have my shutters open and to watch and to not respond immediately.

Other, outside of responding to my shutters, to my, to my sacral and to my, like, mechanics, like, it doesn't mean, like, I mean, what, what, what would those people. I, I don't know. We don't know the answer. And like, war is in My blood. War is in my home. War is in my body. Like. Like, to. And that's. That's my.

That's one of my personal stories of why it's so hard for me to. To, like, reckon with. Like, what. What often to me, feels like shutting the shutter so that I can create inside of my own home.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so visceral, and I'm so glad you brought it in. And, like, yeah, just more questions are showing up for me, and it's about, like.

It's around, like, even, like, the binary of the shutters being open and closed. And, like, before you spoke, Amalia, too, I had. I was having this.

Like, I was recalling something I was asking Nick months ago, and now I feel like it applies to this, like, in our own processes of orienting to, like, the important and true sensation of shutters opening or closed, of, like, welcoming acknowledgement of the grief of the horrors in ways that actually feel true and empowering and disempowering and the sacred mix of empowering and disempowering as it's meant to show up in each of our bodies. It's like, I was just remembering this time I asked you neg. And I asked you. Because I've had to ask myself this so many times, like, can.

Do I believe in the goodness of my own heart? Do I believe? Do I believe that the shutters.

Do I believe, believe in the relationship to the shutters I have right now is the one that I'm able to have and carry with the most integrity and love? Do I believe that about myself? And the answer is pretty much anytime I'm lost in the fear through these narratives of safety, the answer is no.

Like, and it's been difficult for me also not to look at a lot of the pieces of this conversation through mechanics, you know, like. Like, for you, for both of you, like, spleen stuff is gonna be really close to the core of this for me. It's Ajna.

So this question of, like, can I believe in my own goodness or bad? Do I believe in my own? Like, that's what. That's the end of it for me.

That's where I get completely trapped, is my own belief that I might not be good, my own belief that I'm wrong. Like, that's the whole thing for me, and that's part of it for all of us, because Ajna distorts for all of us.

But then underneath it, you know, for both of you, there's spleen stuff. For Nick, there's ego stuff. And Solar plexus stuff. But that piece of it, that Ajna piece of it, it's like, that's a huge piece.

If we can give our own selves the grace and the benefit of a doubt, we believe in our own goodness, our own wholeness. That includes. Maybe I literally do need to shut the shutters today. Can I still be good even with the shutters closed for 10 minutes?

You know, and, like, it's also. It's like, it's not. They're never actually closed because even when we try to repress our shit, it's still there. It's still part of the ecosystem.

So it's. It's like the thing. Where were we talking about this? Amalia? We were talking about this somewhere recently.

Like, where are we allowing our attention to go in any given moment? Like, it's Pisces shit. It's like we're all, everywhere, everything everywhere, all at once is the truth.

But are we allowing ourselves to actually digest Virgo? It's Virgo, Pisces shit.

Actually digest a fragment of the experience in any moment, can we believe in our goodness and our wholeness and our sanctity, even when certain parts of the experience are not the ones at the forefront getting digested in this moment? Which brings us back to.

If we can't and we think that we're only good if we're always digesting the pain and the hard parts, then we are succumbing to. We are consenting then, to a life where we don't get to digest the joy as well.

There's this, like, this elephant in the room for me. I'm realizing that, like, I think what I come back to, like, what feels like the truest truth is that, like, it's. Yeah, it's no choice. And.

And so in that way, if I'm listening, like, I believe, for now, I really believe in human design as, like, a system of, like, it's not about, like, I believe in human design. It's like, I believe in energy, and I believe that human design really helps us listen to energy.

And I believe that, like, if the energy is here for me to close, close the shutters in this moment. Like, it's not actually really my choice.

And, like, in fact, I'm not supposed to be witnessing if that's what my energy is telling me to do, you know, Or I'm not supposed to be helping, or I'm not supposed to be doing school watches right now in the moment that I'm not supposed to be school watching. And I am meant to be doing it when I am called to.

And I think like, the elephant I speak of, and this feels like really a lot for me to say, but it is like, for now, what feels true for me is like, in the same way that I believe in my own life, I believe in my emotional wave and I believe in my life.

And I believe that all of the trauma I've experienced, you know, it's not like I try to stay away from being like it was meant to happen or like it happened so that. But it happened, period. And I do believe that it's like part of how I got like. And I also believe in the power of trauma to be initiation.

Like, I believe in the power of trauma as alchemy.

And I, I like, what I'm trying to say is like, in the same way that in my own life I understand, like, the rocky and the most horrifying and the most violent and like, most near death experiences I've had, like, are also so much a part of my life. Like my lifeiest life experiences that I've had. I also believe in that framework for the world. And I believe that like, if I closing my shutters.

And of course it's not always about closing the shutters. Like, sometimes they're open. And I'm still choosing to create, you know, in this particular whatever conversation.

But I think like, me listening to the energy and doing my best to listen to what the energy is telling me is my role in this moment is part of the world going through what it needs to go through to get to where it's going. And like, that feels so fucking hard to say because I'm like, It feels like I'm saying, like, these people have to die.

These people, people have like these quote unquote people. Like, I hate that phrase, what I just said, but. And I'm like, you know what I mean?

Like, that's the whole thing is I'm like, I don't not like I value every single fucking human life so fucking much. Like, I value it. So I value it so much. And I also believe that, like, we are here to have an experience.

Like, I am here to have an experience, and we collectively are here to have an experience that feels like a lot of what human design has taught me. And I don't know what the experience is, but I believe that like, energy moving through the world does.

And so I kind of feel like this no choiceness, I come back to this no choiceness of like, it's just not about what our heads think of whether we're good or bad. Like, good or bad, we have to just do what we're doing and watch what happens. And that feels like, resonant to me.

The mind is only ever going to be able to put us into these binary buckets of good or bad. And so, like, to your very powerful point much earlier, Nick, like, the shame is an inevitable part of all of our experiences.

Because in this dimension, the one where we're trapped in these human bodies, it includes being trapped in the illusion of the binary and of duality. And so we're not getting rid. We're not fully stepping off of that hamster wheel fully.

But there's wisdom from other realms in each of our bodies, showing us how to process and metabolize and digest this stuff. So it's like that thing, Nick, the distinction you made, it's not about the shame. It's about the ineptitude at metabolizing the shame. The aptitude.

Is that a word? Aptitude? The ability to actually metabolize.

The shame lives in our ability to be present in the moment with what the wisdom of the body wants to do and where the wisdom of the body wants to point its attention. And once you've. I mean, I hate to say it like, there's things you hated to say when you were articulating just now, right, Amalia?

Same.

Because we're like, this is words, this is language. This is Maya. But there's truth. There's frequency underneath it that we are resonating with. With each other.

Which is why I'm able to be like, yeah, those people. I don't even have to hear those words that you said because I'm resonating with the frequency underneath what you're saying. And I've felt that trut.

Truth myself. And like, same thing right now.

This is the getting out of our way thing that, like, we want to do is like, I'm trusting the frequency that I feel moving through me hitting you. I'm trusting it hitting our listeners. I'm trusting that there will be people who can't hear it and will villainize. And I'm trusting that.

And that's like. To me, that's like. And is. Ah.

It's this thing you're talking about of, like, I was getting vision visuals of, like, the world card, the world tarot card, where it's like, it's all part of it. This is part of it, too. This is part of it. And in me accepting that this is part of it, too. In me accepting that, like, consciousness wants to.

Has to is going to metabolize every potential permutation of possibility that is going to happen? Am I going to shame consciousness for existing and wanting to cover every possible permutation?

Am I going to shame God for wanting to experience it all? I mean, yeah, I am. And. And yeah.

I am really. I am really wanting. I don't know, I'm feeling a want to like, make it practical. There's something about what we've been talking about which feels.

Yes.

What I have.

Well, well, I just. I have an op. Like a storytelling that might be practical. But continue with your. Okay, that's all you want. That was the point.

As in like, I move, I want to move toward practical. You've got something, let's go.

So, okay, let me like introduce it first and get some sacral validation on whether this feels like a direction to go in. But I had a moment, like, I've had a couple of these moments, but a more profound one.

I've had a couple of these moments in the last couple of months where I felt my body tell me to orient to the news gestures wildly in a different way than I have been. And like.

And then I had a few experiences that helped me see in the aftermath that that was my splenic definition showing up in my body in a particular way. Okay, thank you for the yeses. So, okay, basically I.

Okay, the Charlie Kirk assassination for some reason made me like, made my spleen hairs stand up a little more. And just to be clear, I'm the only one on this call with a defined spleen. And it's not my authority, but I'm single definition.

So like my splenic stuff is all wrapped up in all the other stuff happening for me all the time. And I have access to it in the wholeness of me in every moment. And I don't think about my spleen in terms of the safety stuff all that much.

Like for some reason, maybe it's one of those things that's just like so part of my system that I take it for granted. Like the sense of security. Right. But like. And obviously I think about my emotional process a lot more. That's the thing that I get pulled into.

That's why it's my authority. But my spleen, I get hit, I get hits. And then my emotional authority contextualizes them over time. And the spleen is about safety.

And I hadn't really been consciously reflecting on my access to a sense of security that much. I reflect on my spleen a lot as like my instinct and my intuition that I Have access to. Not always, but often.

But then, like, something happened with the Charlie Kirk murder where, like, this was one of the less profound one. But I just, like, felt this shift. Like, I felt my spidey senses perk up a little bit where I was.

Like, something about it felt like, as I was watching reactions to it, it felt darker to me.

Like, it didn't feel different than how I'm used to engaging with and watching the news, but there was something about it that felt, like, darker to me. And so I was, like, registering that. And I remember processing in Jess's direction a little bit.

Like, I don't know why, but I, like, actually felt, like, scared this time. No fucking binary partisan reasons around that. Like, they were just, like, watching people react to it.

I just felt myself be like, okay, this feels different. Like, it felt symbolic in some way. And then this happened much more substantially with the Descent of Ice in Chicago.

And, like, there's lots of reasons my mind could pull up for why, Like, I used to be a teacher in Chicago. I have a lot of teacher friends in Chicago. I have a lot of friends in Chicago. Like, my 3D body is much more attuned to what's happening in Chicago.

Even though I'm not there anymore, I'm seeing it more because I have so many people in Chicago.

And I think there was also stuff around, like, the, like, the very first incident that, like, made headlines of the South Shore apartment complex in Chicago's when you were out of town, Amalia. Like, something about being a parent now, too, I think is part of that too. Like, the visceral.

Like, I could, like, picturing someone coming into my home and taking my child away. Right? And so it's like that. It's also that, like. Like, it's more relatable. It's also like, it's in America.

Like, this is happening in America in a city I know, in a city that's not that different from one I live in. Like, all this stuff, it just felt closer to home. And I felt myself perking up differently to it.

And I felt myself being like, I need to pay attention differently now. But not in a way that felt like I invalidated the relative distance that I'd been keeping.

Like, the relative detachment that I'd had to the news cycle in quotations. And, like, I was just. I was watching that, and I was wondering.

And I was watching my mental desire to, like, establish to Budway and other people that I'd been talking to about it that I. I wasn't trying to I didn't want to invalidate the detachment I'd felt up to that point. Like there was something in me that wanted to be. Be clear on that.

Maybe a little bit of not self stuff, but also just like my emotional process is continuing to show me like you didn't need to pay attention and now you do. And I just like really felt the splenic piece of that in retrospect, like watching it. And yeah, I'm just bringing it up as an example.

Sorry, that was longer than I meant for it to be. I didn't know what parts would be relevant.

But to say that like, yeah, my spleen did not activate and that didn't mean that I couldn't be present with and watch and look, my spleen just was not telling me, like, it's time to be very fucking aware for the sake of the safety of yours and your tribe. Right, which is largely what the spleen's about or even the collective.

I mean, yeah, my splenic channels are individual and collective, so I don't know why I'm talking about the tribe. But like there was a part of me in recent events that went, okay, time to pay closer attention.

Time to digest this a little differently than you have been. And that's the spleen, right? It's like in the now, now this affects the safety and security or not.

And like the narrative would be, oh, you were safe before, so you didn't want to pay attention. How privileged of you. And it's like, well, yeah, like, what if I just go, well, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, like, yeah, I was.

I did have the privilege of not having my life in a me, you know, like, yeah, what if there doesn't have to be shame around that? What if it's just.

Well, yeah, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to like see it in this way through this alternate framework without the map of human design.

That's not, it's not justifying anything necessarily, but it's giving me a sense of like, why my body does and doesn't plug in and unplug and assess and pay attention to and lend energy to all this stuff that the whole globe is metabolizing together. But we all, as a cell of the ecosystem, of the whole globe, of the whole consciousness, have our own way of navigating that uniquely as us.

And so, yeah, it's just been comforting for me to be able to like, see retrospectively.

And I've found that it has been supportive for other people to like, hear a version of that because My undefined Ajna, my open head, my undefined sacral, have these narratives of I need to make myself available all the time for this stuff or I'm morally wrong. So to have, like, distinctly felt the difference of my body going and specifically. Sorry, I think this will be the last thing.

Specifically feeling like it was me and it was my integrity both times, both in remaining detached and in starting to pay attention in a different way. It wasn't shame that made me shift. It wasn't guilt or obligation. It was.

My body was registering a frequency differently because that's the thing about reality that my body wanted to point my uniqueness to metabolizing in that moment. Why? I don't know. I'm still safe. I'm still in Vegas. ICE isn't here in my neighborhood. I haven't gone to Chicago to do anything. You know what I mean?

Like, the why. I don't know why, but I felt the wisdom of my body showing me how to move in and out of the Maya in this way.

So I don't know if that's actually practical, Nick.

Okay, well, I loved that I would it.

Okay, here's what I would love to share with our listeners that I'm taking from that in case it feels practical for folks I'm hearing so much of, like, the awareness that you bring to your body's experience. Like, you were a. You could feel the. Yes. Like, you're calling it your splenic yes.

And for folks who don't necessarily know how their authority works, I think there's a degree to which it's like, do you feel like I'm just think about it as, like, does it feel like this is making my energy expand more or constrict more? Like, the thoughts that I'm thinking in my head, does it feel like these are leading to me expanding my energy or constricting my energy?

So, like, if, Kelsey, if you're having, like a splenic yes for something, perhaps you have a sensation of, like, you're now open to that. I think you even described.

It was like, then you were like, wanting to take in that information about what was happening around the charter Charles Kirk murder. And then it wasn't even necessarily about.

Taking in the information. Like, I'm thinking about the difference between the spleen and the. And the sacral here. Right?

Like, the sacral is like, yeah, I'm like, I'm magnetized towards that more energy expenditure. It wasn't even like that with. It was like, does it matter or not? Like, does it move this ecosystem or not from.

Does it matter in this moment for me or not? Because, like, I've not actually been ignoring. Like, I take.

I'm watching everything, but I felt the difference between my body being, like, literally, like, I mean, I'm getting. I'm trying to. I'm, like, wanting validation from YouTube.

I don't know that you know what a splenic hit from your own body feels like, but you know what a splenic hit. You actually know what a splenic hit feels like even more than me because you're amplifying really big ones. Yeah, but, like, the.

Just the feeling when I get a hit of, like, threat, I'm like, pay attention. Because that's how my body operates. When you both get hits about threat, that doesn't mean shit unless sacral and.

Or emotional authority is corroborating it. Right. But for me, like, I really noticed my body with the Charlie Kirk stuff was like, there's a threat here.

Like, I felt like the hairs stand up kind of thing. And it's not a threat. Like, oh, Charlie Kirk got murdered. So now I'm like. You know what I mean? It's not. There's no ration.

Right, right, right.

It's just like, oh.

I. Oh, wait, was that just. Yeah, I, I'm. I have a. It feels practical to me.

It's still conceptual, but I, I. Yeah, I think something that, to me, helps me lean back is just remembering the size of me, like, remembering, Like, I just, like, constantly. And I've learned this from, like, from so many different teachers in so many different ways, though, like, the importance of. Right.

Sizing myself, you know, And I think my mind really doesn't know how big I am. My mind is like, save the world. Save yourself. Save your lineage.

Like, you know, my mind is like, feel, feel shame, feel guilt, like, all of these things.

But, like, I just trust my body so much to know how big my body is and to know that, like, it's not just about, like, there's dimensionality in terms of, like, my size, my literal size. Like, I'm one person that, like, cannot actually stop a genocide. Right.

But then there's also time of being, like, in this season, you know, like, in this season, I'm doing what I'm doing, and in other seasons, I will be doing what I'm doing then, and I don't actually know what I'll be doing then, and what I'll be activated to do then. And Kelsey doesn't know when her spleen is going to activate or why? Right, But I think there's like, it's like the right sizedness. Like I'm.

I'm the size I am no matter what I'm the size I am. And I exist in this one moment in time. Like my body, like my mind, my soul, my spirit exists in all moments, right?

But like my body exists in this moment and that's just, that's like the earthly truth of it. And I think remembering that feels really, it does feel practical to me. And, and there's grief in that. Like there is grief.

Like there's both relief and there's grief and the fact that like I actually can do what I can do. And if what I can do right now and what I want to do, what my body is telling me to do is to create, then that's what I do. And I trust it.

I just really trust it.

I trust that what's good for me, I trust that like not just what's good for me, but like I'm trust that the energy moving through me is like to listen to the energy moving through me is actually for all of us. And that does feel like human design wisdom.

And it feels like wisdom of so many different systems that support energy flow is like what, what we are able to do in this short amount of time in these bodies is flow. And like to some extent it's like, yeah, like attuned to the shame, right? Like it's here.

So we look at it, but it like this shit is like, you know, like it's here or there. Like all we can do is, is all we can do. And that's just it. It's like we've got the fifth house. We do have the eighth house too.

We have these karmic, murky, shame filled connections. Like, yeah, let's be with that. Let's also make some art.

Let's also have some conversations that are fucking messy, you know, I don't know, I'm like, what? Like we're tiny little monster creatures. Like the idea like we're brilliant and wide and vast and we're also like weird little trolls.

And like, I think there's just like that's what we're doing right now. And I don't know, I think to like try to be bigger or different than that to me feels like hubris.

And it feels like it keeps us locked in this old world system. When a new world is emerging and present right now.

The two little threads that I want to follow that keep sitting with me as I take in that beautiful summation One feels like it's supposed to go before the other, but whatever, we're going to go in the way they're coming. That was such a beautiful conceptual summation that you started by saying, I think it's practical, but it's still conceptual.

And I just couldn't help but track the whole time that you were talking just now that, like, the conceptualization is practical because what we're doing is attuning to new conceptual frameworks that help free us from the old ones where we feel disempowered. And that this, like, dosage, your word that you're talking about, right? Like, this is the attunement, this is the transformation.

And it is in fact the most powerful form of resistance and efficient form of resistance that exists.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

And the other thread that feels back to Kelsey Land and it's personal. Like, maybe less heretical and powerful is. But maybe it. I don't know.

When I had my spidey senses click and I went, oh, it's actually time to pay attention differently. There's a threat here to several news events as of late. What did I actually do differently? Nothing.

Like, the thing that actually changed in terms of the behavior that people see from me. Like, it inspired me to write a little bit directly about, like the Chicago stuff, but what did I write about?

The fucking same shit I'm on this podcast preaching about that the state reigns out there so long as it reigns within.

Like, I wrote about specifically this thing that, like, even though things seem dire, I still fucking think learning about yourself and freeing yourself from your mind is the most radical, powerful thing you can do. Right? So it's like my spleen, my spleen told me pay attention differently, but that was for my own internal metabolic process.

And I still, I didn't, wasn't consciously thinking about this, but I still ended up showing up in the same way as me, which in another way just felt like an additional self fortifying experience of like, yeah, me.

And it's making me think of what you shared earlier, Amalia, of like, when we feel the way that the warrior actually shows up in us through our uniqueness. Like, it felt very validating for me that, like, yeah, this is how I do that. This is how I do that.

And even when my spleen's not telling me, pay attention, pay attention, pay attention. I'm still doing that because that's how wisdom, that's how consciousness moves through me as a microcosm that is a part of this whole.

Yes, yes, okay, I wrote down self fortifying experience. And I think that is something which feels really relevant to this whole conversation that we've all been having.

Because I think I don't know where this comes from, but I have this thing in me that's like, okay, but like how if we go from shame through all the things we talked to, talked about, maybe this is just mental shit because maybe the frequency attunement will be enough. But there is an aspect of like, okay, so if people listen to this and they're like, okay, well what now?

I think this phrase, self fortifying experience, another thing I wrote was be present to the wisdom of the body. That's what you were talking about, Kelsey. Like you said something says something. Be present to the wisdom of the body.

And the first thing I thought was like, okay, well how. Right? And so that's for folks to discover on their own, right? The dis.

This discovery process for each person of how they become present to the wisdom of their body or how they're creating their self fortifying experiences. That's going to be individual based on every single person who's listening.

But I do, I just want to point to like everybody, you're already getting to have experiences in your daily life which will give you opportunities to reflect on where you're at with your relationship to shame or whatever it is. And I just feel like giving yourself permission to.

Because I know we are all talking a lot about like, I trust my body and we move with the body and stuff. And I think for me that felt really far away from me at the beginning of like exploring some of this stuff.

So like it's okay if you don't trust your body. Just maybe go through the experience. Your mind doesn't have to know if it's like the right thing or the wrong or is it correct or is it not self.

It's just kind of like, I don't know if it feels small enough stakes, like you could encounter the consequences either way and like be okay in the aftermath of whatever you decide.

I highly encourage just like, like getting out there and putting your body through experiences to then gather the data so that you can create this like self fortifying, like sense of self. I just love that self fortifying piece because it feels like that's.

It's like how I'm continuously gathering more and more evidence now that shows me that I can trust my body and that is a different style of attunement that I have to myself. And it's also a different mental attention. So I just wanted to name all those Things.

The, the awareness that we have through because of a lot of different modalities that have supported us. And one that we have in common, that's been a huge part of all of our processes.

That being human design, like getting that attunement to the way energy moves through us, AKA the way our bodies inform us. It shifted things, but it was able to like we were able to retroactively then rely on our entire life of experience with the new awareness. Right.

And like whatever system you're using to examine your experience and gather the data, as Nick's saying is like not, not all is lost. That's another way that like binary and shame shows up.

Like, everything you're experiencing right now, everything you've ever experience is a part of how you learn, how you attune, how you self fortify. That's a big part of what I was hearing from you. But also my impatience is like. And also, if you don't know what the.

If you're listening and resonate with these themes, but you don't know what the fuck we're talking about in terms of the specificity of trusting our bodies, here's another invitation. Perhaps go learn a little bit about your design. There's some good free resources out there.

Yeah.

Because it is, it is very like clarifying in the field of the Maya and all the information. It's a very like immediate. It can be. If it's the right moment for you, it can be a very immediate attunement to yourself.

So that you can both in the present, past and future, use your life experience. How about this? Use your entire life experience as an experience of self fortification.

Yes.

Which is what incarnation is, in my view is supposed to be. Is meant to be.

Love that.

Are you feeling shame about being a creative right now?

Not in this specific moment.

I feel like we just worked me through my cycle. You know how I'm like, I always got to go through it and I feel like I got. I got there.

Any last words? I'm sorry, I'm reading that we're done. Am I reading? Am I amplifying your sacrals correctly that we're done?

Yes, definitely correct. 100%.

You are indeed tuning in.

Done. Past last words. Last words have been spoken.

Yeah, I think so.

Love you.

Love y' all so much.