Join host Erika Audrey on an inspiring journey through the creative process with special guest comedian Mark Kendall on this episode of Clover Club.

In this candid and engaging discussion, Erika and Mark delve into the essence of creativity, exploring how authenticity and humor play pivotal roles in the creative journey. From the sparks of inspiration to the grind of refining ideas, they share personal insights and anecdotes that illuminate the path of creation.

Discover the power of showing up authentically and embracing humor as a catalyst for innovation and connection. Whether you're an artist, writer, or simply curious about the creative process, this episode offers invaluable perspectives to inspire and uplift.

Tune in as Erika and Mark unpack their own approaches to creativity, offering practical tips and encouragement for anyone seeking to tap into their creative potential. Prepare to be inspired, entertained, and motivated to infuse more creativity into your life.

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Check out Cool Cool Cool productions here

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Welcome to clever club, a podcast

about curious conversations and stories

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intended to make you laugh and learn.

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I'm your host, Erica.

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And today I'm elated to be joined

by my friend, mark Kendall mark.

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Hi.

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Hello.

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How are you?

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I'm really good.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm thank you for coming.

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You.

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You know, you were one of the first people

that I've reached out to where I was like,

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he's not going to say yes to this, but

I need to just, I just am going to ask.

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I would also say I would

absolutely say yes, no.

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Very cool.

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Yes.

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You didn't just say yes.

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You said he asked him like

the most flattering way.

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You're like, oh, I like listen to it.

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Like, yeah.

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I was blown away.

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I enjoy the podcast.

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It's really nice.

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I, , you know, I love

the variety of guests.

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You have.

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I love the vulnerability of the stories

like from yourself and the other people.

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You know, people like

share their experiences.

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You know about like

successes and failures.

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Yeah.

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You know, I just really,

I really appreciate it.

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Well, I appreciate you.

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Appreciate it.

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So this is, this is a huge honor

for me to have you in the studio.

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, Typically mark.

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When I have people on the show that

I have mutual friends with and mark

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and I I'll give a tiny backstory.

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You were my improv teacher, like.

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Eight years ago for a hot minute.

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, and so we just kind of, we overlap

in the comedy circle a little, but we

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do have a handful of mutual friends.

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And so I've reached out to

people and I'm like, Hey, I'm

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recording with market Kendall.

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You have any crazy stories, any fun facts?

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Anything that can add to this interview.

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And the consistent

response from everybody.

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It was a, oh my God.

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We love mark.

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But also like you seem to be the most

unproblematic human being in the world.

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Like everyone's like, we don't

know actually anything about.

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Like he is just always nice.

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Always present.

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And like, I got no dirt.

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I got no dirt on you.

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So, I guess.

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Are you surprised to hear that?

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Uh, I don't know.

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There's definitely, there's

definitely dirt out there.

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I'm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well maybe.

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I need to do more.

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Where reconnaissance work.

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, but I guess like, do you go out of

your way to garner a good reputation

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or is, I mean that, like, I feel

like everything people said about

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you behind your back with lovely.

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This is what everybody would

want people to say about that.

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If they weren't in the room, you know?

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Oh yeah, no, I mean, I try to have

like positive interactions with folks.

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Uh, so I try to do that.

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Yeah.

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Uh, but beyond that, you know, not really.

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Just naturally fabulous.

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I just try, I just try to have

positive exchanges with folks.

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I remember when I was younger.

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, someone said something along the lines

of like, you know, you can, you know,

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make someone's day better or worse.

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And it's not like I necessarily go into

an interaction thinking like I'm going

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to make the day better or worse, but

it's just like, I don't want to make

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someone's day worse if I can help it.

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Yeah.

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Maybe that's in the back

of my mind a little bit.

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Yeah.

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That, that took root.

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I think that's a great way.

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Like I'm just going to not make the

world worse as I go out into it.

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I still do something.

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But like, yeah, I'm

going to try to try to.

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That's totally fair.

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, do you ever have bad days?

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely a bad days.

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I think.

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, uh, you know, I, I enjoy

doing morning pages.

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Have you ever done the artist's way?

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I haven't done the artist's

way, but I'm familiar.

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And I've been here with morning pages.

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Yeah.

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So it's like quick

description of artist's way.

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It's this workbook, basically.

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It's like a 12 week workbook where

you do creative exercises and read

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about creativity just in general.

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I did it maybe over 10

years at this point.

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Oh, I thought it was really beneficial.

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Yeah.

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One of the aspects of the artist's

way is you journal every morning

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for about like three pages.

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Okay.

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And so I don't necessarily

do it every day, but I have

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moments when I do do it a lot.

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And I found that it's just really helpful

just in terms of getting thoughts out and

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processing feelings and things like that.

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So that's definitely

one of the things that.

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I like, like to go to, if

I'm having like a bad day.

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And also like, , You know, creative

when I'm being creative, when

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I'm being creative with other

people that that helps a lot.

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It helps a lot.

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Yeah.

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That makes a lot of sense.

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And.

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You're coming about being

creative with other people.

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That's such a skill.

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And I learned throughout my, I had

probably like two years where I

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was like deeply dabbling in improv.

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And I learned I'm not good at

being creative with other people.

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And I was like, I think I should be

doing standup instead because I'm just

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like, not good at improv because I,

uh, I just, I think I'm naturally,

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literally not good at it cause I'm like

too controlling and I just try to fill

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in gaps, which is the opposite that

you're supposed to like, I don't know.

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, so are you naturally really good

at being collaborative or did you

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learn to be better through improv?

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You know, not, not necessarily.

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Yeah.

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I think that, you know, I'm more

naturally tend towards something

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like stand up things like that.

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And also too.

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I mean, like, you know,

I saw your improv class.

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You're not bad at improv.

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Very funny and, you know, I think.

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The other thing too, like when it

comes to doing something that you're

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doing as a group, no one's ever going

to contribute in the exact same way.

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And so the way I kind of see

it is like, all right, there

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might be some things that.

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Uh, you know, in the moment you look back.

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Or you look back and you're like,

oh, that didn't help the improv show.

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But also, it's just like, that's the

offer that you made, whatever that is.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So like in a perfect situation,

like, like in an idealized version

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of improv, it's like, whatever you

happen to bring is what you bring.

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And that's great.

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You.

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You know, so.

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All that to say is like,

I think I personally.

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Veer more towards, you know,

solo performance, solo,

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creative projects as well.

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But I like how I have to maybe

more for change in order to

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collaborate with other people.

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Yeah.

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Even if it's just being like an audience

member, you know, that makes sense.

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That makes a lot of sense.

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So, did you get your start?

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Well, let me even back up from there,

like how did you get into comedy?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, in college.

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Yeah.

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So, , in college I was a film

major and, you know, I was really

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into like, You know, writing

and directing and making films.

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Like I read spike spike.

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Lee had like these books.

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Uh, I don't remember these books.

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He did.

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So like, But like his first five films.

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Uh, he had like a companion

book that would come out.

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Sounds familiar.

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Yeah.

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And so it had like a journal that

he kept, it had the script and

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he was basically trying to like

demystify the filmmaking process.

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It was sort of like, it was like

director's commentary before

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DVDs and blue Ray were an option.

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That's awesome.

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That was like, man, filmmaking

is a processing, so cool.

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And I was getting really into that.

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So.

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In college, I'm a film major.

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And, , I wanted to get

experienced with equipment.

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, and there was a sketch group on

campus and YouTube was maybe just out.

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Like just like I'm dating myself.

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Maybe it was like brand new.

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So this sketch group, it was a video

sketch group, but they wouldn't

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even put their stuff on YouTube.

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It's like they would shoot stuff.

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And then at the end of the semester,

they'd have a show where they play

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video sketches for their friends.

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And that was kind of it.

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, so I was like, oh, great.

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I'll be a crew member for this.

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So I like on the weekends, I like hold

booms or put up lights and it was great.

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Okay.

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Uh, but another part of being

in the group is that every week

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they'd have writers meetings.

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So there's a writing team and an acting

team, and they would read these sketches

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and the crew would listen to the sketches.

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And then you give feedback event.

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It was like a really cool process.

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This is, this is fun., and then at around

that same time at the end of my freshman

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year, Comedy central had this program.

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It was start by Chris rock was called

the comedy central summer school.

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And it was an opportunity for

writers of color to spend the summer

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at comedy central in New York.

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And they would just kind of like

rotate you through departments.

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To expose you to different types

of jobs you could have as a writer.

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And I think it was partly inspired

by the fact that like when

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Chris rock was on us and now.

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I don't think there

were any black writers.

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So like experience of him

getting material on was like much

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different deal than other people.

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As I'm sure it was for like a bunch

of other groups that weren't like

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properly represented on the show.

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Yeah.

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So that was him and comedy central, trying

to like create ways to address that.

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Yeah.

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Uh, so, so that was freshman

year and I was like, oh, this

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is cool because it's like, this

is an internship that would pay.

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And, uh, they'd cover my

housing, all that kind of stuff.

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Uh, so I applied and I did not

have like prior comedic experience.

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I'm not like a class clown type

or anything like that, but I, I

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wrote sketches for the first time.

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And.

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And sent in an application and

I didn't get in, but they left.

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Like a very nice.

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It was a complete failure,

but I've got a great about it.

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Because I tried really

hard on that application.

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Beautiful.

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I didn't get in, but they

left a very encouraging email.

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Like we liked your, we liked

your application and we'd

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love for you to apply again.

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So I literally, I kept that voicemail

in my phone, like the whole year.

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And occasionally I listened to it, like.

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You know, they really

liked my application.

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I'm going to.

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Yeah.

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So then the next year.

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The next year.

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I submit again and, uh, and

this time the east coast.

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Director of development caught me up

because he was a Northwestern alum.

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Okay.

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I didn't get in the second year either.

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Did you go to Northwestern?

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Oh yeah, I did.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Those are the ones about.

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No, but random.

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So

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we went to the same school.

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That's why he called me up.

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And so.

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And, uh, and he's like, yo, I like your

stuff or whatever, but it's not really.

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You're not gonna like get

to the next level with this.

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And he sat on the phone with me.

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And, when you work in development,

you're the person that's kinda

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like deciding what scripts.

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You know, go from being

scripts to becoming TV shows.

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So you're like developing it.

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So this person.

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Is an expert on reading and understanding.

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Matches.

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What's funny, but what's also

a fit for comedy central.

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So he read my samples, which is wild

and kind of like walked me through them.

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And, , at the time I thought

my samples were great.

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Cause it's just like, My

friends thought they were funny.

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And he's just like, that's cool, but you

need to make a stranger laugh really hard.

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Yeah.

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I'm reading the words on the page and

I'm like, I really took that to heart.

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That's a good tip.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it was really great.

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Tip.

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And so then I sort of I remember that.

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And so then I applied to

third year and I got in and.

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Yeah.

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I was like, oh, fantastic.

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And , so I spent the summer in

New York and so you'd rotate

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through different departments.

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So you spent time in the development

department so that, uh, Northwestern

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alum, I got to work in his

department for a couple of weeks.

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Uh, and then they had a blog back then.

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So I got to like be at the

blog for a little while and

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I wrote a blog post for them.

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, I was in there on, off air

promotions, so I got to pitch like.

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Ideas to them, but the CRA.

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The fun part of the program was I got

to spend a week shadowing the writers

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at the daily show with Jon Stewart.

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And then I got to spend a

week, , shadowing the riders

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at the Colbert report.

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Wow.

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What that meant was I wasn't really

liking coffee or anything like that.

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I'd show up, I'd go to

all the writer's meetings.

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And then if I felt like,

and I'd pitch a joke or two.

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And, , it was a really eyeopening

experience because up until that point,

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you know, I've been a crew person.

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I had written stuff, but I'd

never been in a room where

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you're pitching jokes verbally.

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I'd always like been off in my own dorm

room, writing a script to myself and then.

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Shooting at myself or turning it in.

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What's different about these TV writers'

rooms or at least how they worked.

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In those rooms is like, , you are off

on a, on a computer writing stuff, but

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there are moments when you're pitching

concepts, you're pitching jokes.

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And what I had to learn to get better

at was one, like just pitching out loud

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in a room because I was not a performer.

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, and also, you know, you might write

something that reads funny, but can

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you give someone a line that they

then say later that evening out loud

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to an audience that's in their voice.

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That's also funny.

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So it's like a different skill kinda sure.

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And, um, and so that was

a great experience, like

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learning what that looked like.

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Uh, and, , one thing that was like a

really big confidence builder for me.

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Was at the Colbert report.

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I pitched a joke in a version

of that Roundup on the show.

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So like Cole bear said like a

joke that like started as my idea.

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And I was like, oh my gosh.

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And all the writers were very kind

and encouraging like, oh, good job.

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You know?

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And, you know, I really dug the vibe

of the Colbert report writer's room.

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And what I found out was that like a lot

of them were improvisers from Chicago.

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And I was going to college

in a suburb of Chicago.

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So a lot of those writers also went

to the school that I had gone to.

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. And they're like you should, , when

you go back to school, Try

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some improv, try some standup.

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Those are the things

that will help you pitch.

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So, because what I was observing was

like, You know, you go into the office

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each day with these writers, they'd

pitched these brilliant jokes and then

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they would then go to the clubs at

night and then do their own materials.

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So I started to follow them doing that.

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I'm like, oh, okay.

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This makes sense.

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They're not just writers.

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They're brilliant performers in their own.

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Right.

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Nearly all of them, even if they

weren't like performers, they had

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some kind of performance experience.

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So I'm like, okay, this is something I,

if I want to write, this is something

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that I need to learn, how to do.

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If I want to write in

these kinds of spaces.

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And so, uh, my roommate during that

summer, who was also part of the

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program, He was already a standup.

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So he was like going out each night.

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So I started following him and I went

up and did my first stand-up open mic.

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It was like in the

basement of this taco spot.

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And it didn't go good, but it's just

like, what I found was like, oh,

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like speaking in front of people

that doesn't really make me nervous.

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I didn't do that.

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Gray eye.

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You know, I was fine.

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So I'm like, oh, okay.

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I can do this.

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And I think also a certain

level of pressure was removed.

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'cause I'm like, I'm not

trying to be a standup.

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I'm just trying to do this.

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To get better at writing.

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So there was like a layer removed, whereas

it, maybe it would be a lot different if

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my whole life I'm like, oh gosh, I want

to be like Richard Pryor, Steve Martin.

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And I got to make this work you're

bad for a really long time, you know?

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So it's like, I can see

how that could maybe.

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Be a tougher thing, but, but to

me, I'm just like, I'm just trying

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to learn, write jokes, you know?

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Yeah.

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So there was a lot that

was removed from that.

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, and so then when I came back, To school

for my senior year, I started going

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to open mics for stand up on occasion.

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I took my first improv class while also

still, you know, riding and making stuff.

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So.

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That's kind of how comedy

kind of came about.

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And I think the other thing too was, you

know, Being in film school at the time

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you watch a lot of student films and.

381

At least when I was in film school.

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What I appreciated

about the comedy comedy.

383

Uh, once it was like, if something was

meant to be funny, like the audience

384

would either laugh or they wouldn't.

385

Yeah, but for other films, you know,

you're trying to make like a historical

386

drama, but on like a $250 budget, it

was kind of hard to determine, like, I

387

don't know, like your dorm room doesn't

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So.

389

So if that makes any sense.

390

So what I appreciate about comedy

was that like, oh, I like it where

391

it's like, you try to make the

audience have a certain reaction.

392

And they either do what they don't.

393

And then you kind of go

back to the drawing board.

394

If you didn't get what you wanted.

395

Um, and so that's the long story.

396

I love that story.

397

That's super, super cool.

398

Yeah.

399

, are there any people that were in those

writer rooms that have now gone on to

400

have big kind of individual careers?

401

Yeah.

402

Yeah.

403

So like, Uh, at the daily show when I

was there, it was like, why it's an X,

404

like first week or something like that.

405

Are you like just got there.

406

And so he went on to be like

a great correspondent and

407

then did a bunch of stuff.

408

Uh, John Oliver was a

correspondent at the time.

409

And as well as in the writer's room.

410

And I remember like the first or second

day at the daily show, there was like one

411

of those like office basketball goals.

412

And like, he was just very nice.

413

Like I remember like, he's like, I

forget how it started because I want

414

to play horse or something like that.

415

And like we played horse on

the thing and I lost and I

416

was going to pay him 10 bucks.

417

Like I can't take your money.

418

That's true.

419

They shouldn't be taking my money.

420

Um, , Oh, and, , also during the program,

, we'd go to like comedy central events too.

421

So comedy central had like a lot

of standup shows around town.

422

So it was, uh, so that summer I saw Bo

Burnham when he liked just moved to New

423

York, he was maybe like 19 at the time.

424

Oh my God.

425

He may have still been like

in school or something.

426

Yeah.

427

, I saw Hannibal Burris

before I'd seen them on TV.

428

I think maybe before each shown up on TV.

429

, Amy Schumer was still like very, very new.

430

So like, you'd go see these people

at the show and then they'd still

431

just be hanging out after the show.

432

And you would just be talking to them.

433

So I saw, like I saw Mike Birbiglia

for the first time that summer.

434

Just a bunch of people.

435

Yeah.

436

It was really, it was really nice.

437

Yeah.

438

I feel like when I hear stories like this.

439

It's like we more

cutthroat and I love that.

440

You're like, oh, I had a lovely

experience and everybody was

441

really uplifting and kind yeah.

442

I feel like that's the perfect

experience for you to have, because

443

that's how you show up in these

rooms now with other people.

444

Yeah.

445

Yeah.

446

And I will also say too, not that

it wasn't a lovely experience, but I

447

think that some things can feel rough.

448

So it's like I did also pitch

jokes that did not go well.

449

Sure.

450

And like you might get a look.

451

And so like, depending on what your

emotional state is on that date, maybe

452

that might make you feel really bad

or it's just like, people will give

453

you very direct, honest feedback.

454

Like this sucks.

455

And maybe they raise their

voice or something like that.

456

And it's not like nothing scary,

but it's like, depending on

457

the day or your temperament.

458

That might throw you off or whatever.

459

So.

460

Uh, but that said, I mean, these were

shows that were operating at like

461

a really high level, so they didn't

really have that kind of energy.

462

Like something that would

get said in the daily show, I

463

think was like best idea wins.

464

Meaning like they didn't care if

the intern had the idea or John

465

Stewart had the idea or whoever.

466

Right.

467

It's just like they're trying

to create an environment so

468

that the best idea gets heard.

469

So that can wind up on the show

cause that's good for the show.

470

And so.

471

There's that too, because I mean, not

all creative spaces are like that.

472

Some of them.

473

Much more toxic.

474

Yeah.

475

It's just for that particular program.

476

I didn't encounter much of that.

477

Yeah.

478

That's wonderful.

479

Yeah.

480

Oh, I love that.

481

And I'm so glad you got

finally got accepted.

482

Oh yeah.

483

Yeah.

484

Yeah, absolutely.

485

So, okay.

486

So you have this experience,

you graduate from college.

487

, I know there were probably a

couple of years in between that

488

and when I met you as an improv

teacher, so how did you get to.

489

Let's connect the dots for me between

there and now, because I've seen you

490

perform at the Alliance and your own solo

show, which I want to circle back to you.

491

, I mean, you've done some awesome shit.

492

, so yeah, like how, how has

all this unfolded for you?

493

So I came back to Atlanta and

originally I was like, oh, I'm

494

only going to be in, oh, sorry.

495

Are you originally from Atlanta?

496

Yes, I am.

497

Gotcha.

498

Okay.

499

So.

500

So I came back to Atlanta after

college, Atlanta is where I'm from.

501

And originally I thought like, oh,

because all my friends from college

502

were mostly going to the coast, like

New York or LA, because that's where

503

most of the filmmaking is happening.

504

But I came back to Atlanta and I was

very briefly for like a hot second.

505

I was one of the casting

assistants at Tyler Perry studios.

506

So it was back when they were filming

a meet the Browns and how's the pain.

507

And that was a really

great learning experience.

508

It was just a very short period of time.

509

But in that short period of

time, I got to see a lot.

510

So the casting department that

I was at, they were casting

511

for two shows at the same time.

512

So Tyler Perry, he kinda like

pioneered this, uh, style of shooting.

513

Sitcoms where, you know, maybe back in the

day, you'd shoot like a sit-com a week.

514

And then each season you'd have like 22

or 24 episodes at a certain it's not as

515

common to do that anymore, but yeah, but

that's kinda like what it was like, what.

516

Tyler Perry did with his studio.

517

He would shoot like four episodes a

week and shoot a bunch, uh, over the

518

course of like three or four months.

519

And then you'd have

like 80 episodes of TV.

520

And just have like much more.

521

Uh, and he was just doing

it for much cheaper.

522

So what that meant for the casting

department is rather than casting for

523

like, I don't know, like an episode

of TV a week, you would cast for

524

like eight episodes of TV a week.

525

So then you're seeing

that many more auditions.

526

Yeah.

527

Was that efficient or overwhelming?

528

, I was just an assistant.

529

I'm sure it was overwhelming

for some people.

530

But I don't know if my job

necessarily changed that much.

531

It's not like I was like doing eight

times as much, if that makes sense.

532

Okay.

533

So I'm sure that fell on someone.

534

It just didn't fell on me.

535

Yeah, but.

536

But what I.

537

Uh, what I got to take away from that

was, you know, Just how often, like you

538

would see, or this is just my experience,

but it's like, I'd see auditions

539

for Rome and I'd have my favorites.

540

Like, oh, that person

was clearly the best.

541

They wouldn't necessarily get the wrong.

542

You know, like it was super interesting,

like, or, , you know, someone

543

might not get a role for something,

but they made a great impression.

544

Uh, and so then they get

brought back into site.

545

Oh, okay.

546

Just worry about what

you can kind of control.

547

And just try and go and

have a good audition.

548

, you see like interesting choices, things

that are maybe more boring choices.

549

So like you see 20 people.

550

Do the same line.

551

And so you see how many people make

the same choice versus the people

552

that do a little something different.

553

, oh, that was really cool.

554

And then I met , , some writers of the

show at the time, some of the folk, some

555

of those folks I'm still in touch with.

556

And so.

557

Yeah, it was a good learning experience.

558

, it definitely wasn't what, , I

don't know what I was expecting.

559

Yeah.

560

But, but like, it, wasn't what I

was expecting, you know, like, , But

561

looking back on it, those, those are the

positive things that I took out of it.

562

Okay.

563

But then after that, that ended.

564

And I wanted to make sure that I

continued to work the performance muscles.

565

Uh, in addition to riding.

566

And so, , after that I became, , the

former artistic director at dad's garage.

567

His name's Kevin Gleason.

568

I was his intern.

569

So, , basically what that means.

570

I go on a couple of times a week.

571

And like, you know, help Tim

with stuff like admin stuff.

572

It looks good.

573

Yeah.

574

And then they gave me free classes

and, um, and that was really nice.

575

Cause it's just like, that helped me.

576

Be able to take improv

classes are expensive.

577

And Amber Nash.

578

She was the education

director at the time.

579

And I remember, I was like, Hey

Amber, you know, I get free classes.

580

Y'all have four levels.

581

Can I just take all four of them

at once and she's just like, yeah.

582

And so, so, so I had, you know,

extra evening time on my hands.

583

So I would just take

all the classes at once.

584

And I did that like maybe a couple

of times throughout my internship.

585

Wow.

586

, and slowly over time, like, Uh, you know,

intern, I would take classes at one place.

587

I start performing someplace else.

588

, And so over time, like I accumulated.

589

, like stage time.

590

And reps through that.

591

Cause I didn't really

study acting in college.

592

Not, not really.

593

I mean, And maybe took, , like

a couple acting classes,

594

but I wasn't like an acting.

595

, major and I think sometimes maybe felt

insecure, not insecure, but I didn't feel

596

like a trained actor because I had friends

that were like, that was their craft.

597

And I saw how seriously they took it.

598

, in college and like what that

looked like, and I'm like that Amy.

599

So.

600

And so, , I was trying to like catch up

isn't the right word, but I was like,

601

all right, I've seen how seriously.

602

My friends take acting.

603

I want to try to apply that to

like my improv stuff into this.

604

Comedy stuff that I'm going to do.

605

And so, yeah.

606

, I got to perform more at dad's garage.

607

, and something that is unique about

how that theater works earliest.

608

It was when I was there.

609

I'm not there currently, but

back when I was performing there.

610

, they're an improv theater.

611

So they put on improvised comedy shows.

612

They're also a theater company.

613

So they have like a scripted.

614

Season of theater that

they do each year as well.

615

And what was unique about the way

they did theater was they had the

616

improvisers write most of the scripts.

617

And so, , if you're a playwright,

at least like in Atlanta, you might

618

write a play, but getting a theater to

produce your work can be a challenge.

619

, if you don't have a relationship

with that theater, you know, , and

620

even if you do it can just be tough.

621

Yeah.

622

Uh, so, , what dad's

garage allowed for war?

623

Uh, newer playwrights.

624

Maybe you've never had anything

produced, but you could get

625

something produced, uh, there.

626

So, , I've been there for a little

while and I pitched a solo show.

627

, called the magic Negro and other

blackness, and it was a satirical

628

one person sketch show, looking

at the magic Negro archetype.

629

It pops up in American culture.

630

Uh, and, and so, yeah, so I got to

do that and then I was like teaching

631

improv and then touring what that

touring, what that solo show.

632

So that's the solution

I mentioned earlier.

633

That's how that came to be.

634

Okay.

635

That's interesting.

636

I didn't realize that

it had started at dad's.

637

That's awesome.

638

, I have a funny story.

639

Then I think of, and bring up with

a friend of mine that I saw your

640

show when actually fairly regularly.

641

So this show that mark reference,

he did at the Alliance theater, and

642

I took a good friend of mine and we

were like, We should get stoned first.

643

Do you, are you cool

with talking about weed?

644

Okay.

645

Um, first thing is really funny.

646

It's cause.

647

Like funny side story.

648

You're not the only person that's

come to see the show really.

649

a weird combination.

650

my favorite combination.

651

Um, so.

652

We were, we got there a little early.

653

Whereas sitting in the parking

garage at the Alliance.

654

And I had brought like

my weed, my grinder.

655

And like literally a bowl and

this friend that I was with, he.

656

Matt is married and didn't get out much.

657

And, uh, he's like my fun buddy.

658

And I'm like, do you want to hit this?

659

And he was like, I mean, yeah,

Um, and so I hit the ball.

660

I had him the wall, we're

passing it back and forth.

661

We're just like, hotboxing my little,

whatever car I drove at the time.

662

, just giggling, having a wonderful time.

663

And then he had one of those stone

thoughts of like, you know, how,

664

when you hit a bull, you like inhale.

665

Look, I wonder what happens if you exhale.

666

And so he exhaled and all

of this weed, it just goes.

667

my car.

668

Loved the magic track.

669

I mean, I, I sold that car and there

were definitely weed bits everywhere.

670

I.

671

It was like a bomb went off.

672

And I just looked at

him and I'm like, bro.

673

We just like, could not stop.

674

And then I was like,

well, I guess that's that.

675

Go keep it, keep it going.

676

And then we came in and

watched your show and.

677

Aye.

678

Um, it was great.

679

Start to finish.

680

Of course.

681

I think you're hilarious.

682

, but there's this one segment.

683

That I, I literally

referenced this regular.

684

But it's the part about Marta?

685

Oh yeah.

686

One of the funniest things

I've ever seen in my life.

687

I don't know if it's

cause I'm in Atlantan.

688

Lifelong and I just like, get it, but

will you tell me about the inspiration

689

for that and just kind of tell

people what I'm referring to you.

690

Sure.

691

Sure.

692

Yeah.

693

So I have a, a bit that

started from that show.

694

Called, you know, if Marta

expanded a cop county.

695

So in Atlanta, Marta is our

public transportation system.

696

, there's a train system.

697

, but it's fairly limited.

698

It's more limited than it should

be for a city of Atlanta size.

699

And then that contributes a lot to

traffic and a lot of other byproducts of

700

not having enough public transportation

and just people having the way

701

to get to where they need to go.

702

Yeah.

703

Cobb county is a suburb of Atlanta

and they have not allowed Marta

704

to expand to the suburb in the

way that it should at this point.

705

And for many years, a big narrative of

why, You know, public transportation

706

would not expand to that part of town.

707

Is because, oh, we don't want public

transportation to come here because

708

we don't want crime to come here.

709

Crime being like another word

for black people basically.

710

Yep.

711

Have you look at the history of traffic,

public transportation streets in Atlanta,

712

the way that it's carved up divided.

713

Yeah.

714

In general roads.

715

The ground you walk on.

716

Yeah.

717

Like a lot of the way that it's

been, you know, , manufactured is

718

due to, you know, racism and a fear

of societies and neighborhoods

719

mixing in one way or another.

720

And this narrative of

public transportation.

721

Bringing crime is a thread that you

even will still hear two days really.

722

It's wild.

723

Yeah.

724

But, I mean, but if you think about

what it would actually take for someone

725

to take tra public transportation, To

steal something that you value in your

726

home, like a television set or a sofa.

727

And then get back onto a bus and

then a train is wild, you know?

728

Uh, so that's kind of

what the bit is about.

729

I take on the perspective

of a, like a feat, a robber,

730

whoever I'm talking to my boys.

731

And I'm like, yo Cobb county

just opened the flood gates.

732

You know, Expanded Marta to Cobb county.

733

So we're going to Rob Cobb county night.

734

We're bringing black crime to Cobb county.

735

You know, and so I take

like a very detailed look of

736

what it would actually take.

737

And as I'm breaking it down to you,

you're like, wait, this is impossible.

738

This doesn't make any sense.

739

And so that's kinda what

that, that bits about.

740

It's so, so, so good.

741

Oh, Uh, they just, or was

it an April fool's joke?

742

Did Kemp just approve

funding to expand Marta?

743

Or was that an April fool's joke?

744

Do you know?

745

Oh, well, I do know that there are a

diff additional Marta stops being added.

746

But I don't know if it's necessarily

being expanded to those spots.

747

So I'm not, I guess the short,

short way of saying is I'm not sure.

748

Exactly.

749

Okay.

750

I'll have to do a little research and.

751

Yeah, I will leave that in

the show notes, the shore.

752

Uh, I, uh, every time

Marta comes up, I'm always.

753

Because people naturally

they're like, oh, crime.

754

Like you bring up this part

of like bringing a baby grand

755

piano on the Martin buses.

756

No one's going to do that.

757

That's not how this works.

758

Yeah.

759

, so I guess you've done.

760

And continue to do a really nice

job of infusing, , a kind of social

761

awareness and politics into your comedy.

762

And that's brought you to kind

of where you're at now and

763

the podcasts that you have.

764

Sure.

765

So, will you tell us a little bit

about how you continue doing that?

766

Absolutely.

767

Well, you know, going back to

that experience at comedy central.

768

And New York that I had, you know,

Tom Purcell, who is the head writer

769

of the Colbert report at the time, he

was the person that would be reading

770

a lot of the writing that I was just

doing when I was there for that week.

771

And something that I wasn't good at

at the time, but he really pushed was

772

having a very strong point of view and

writing something that you care about.

773

And that like, you know what

you care about subconsciously,

774

but you may not necessarily know

what you have a point of view on.

775

Cause you just think about it every day.

776

And so for me, that experience was helpful

in starting to develop, like what, what

777

are the things that I do care about?

778

What.

779

, do I have a point of view on, and,

, and also being, you know, with the

780

Colbert report and the daily show,

a lot of it is simply like drawing

781

inspiration from current events,

, broader things that are happening.

782

, I think another way to look at is

like, you know, what's happening in

783

your own neighborhoods in your own

hometown, wherever that may be, you know?

784

, and so.

785

, using the martyr pieces as an

example about how that kind

786

of led to what I'm doing now.

787

So, you know, that was part of a show

that I toured for a number of years.

788

Uh, and, , bill Worley,

he's an improviser in town.

789

Uh, also a really talented

filmmaker and a quick sidebar.

790

So I've known bill for over

10 years at this point.

791

I mean, and I've been saying

that for a couple of years,

792

However many years that is.

793

Um, but, uh, we worked

on a project together.

794

It was a show we did.

795

It was me bill Worley and John Mangan.

796

Who's another great actor in town.

797

And John Megan had this idea.

798

That we both kind of talked

about called like magic and bird.

799

Who's like, what if we did.

800

A live stage adaptation of the rivalry

between magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

801

It was very, very silly

and very ridiculous.

802

And, , neither one of us looked

like magic Johnson or Larry

803

Bird, but it was very fun.

804

So we like had the jerseys and we're

doing like this live show and it was

805

just this bonkers bonkers show that

would also have like little documentary

806

snippets throughout the bill shot.

807

And we also did a sketch for it and

I just really enjoyed the experience.

808

Of working with bill and I was like,

yo, this was a great experience.

809

Would you want to shoot

something else with me?

810

It's like, yeah.

811

And so I had the sketches,

you know, from my solo show.

812

So we shot the Marta piece.

813

, and then like two weeks

later, the world shut down.

814

Yeah.

815

Yeah.

816

So like I wasn't performing

or anything like that.

817

And you know, that's most of

what I've been doing, I've

818

been going out every night.

819

Uh, you know, teach improv to

perform someplace, doing something.

820

And so we were just kind of

sitting on this sketch for months.

821

, but then after a while, we're like, I

think we should just kind of put it out

822

because it's like some of the things that.

823

It brings up a related to conversations

that were being had at the time

824

around like, you know, race equity,

you know, all these kinds of things.

825

Right.

826

Uh, and then that did well.

827

, it resonated with folks.

828

And what I kind of learned from

that experience was like, oh,

829

you know, a point of view can be

about something very specific.

830

To you.

831

So like, you know, this very like niche

issue in Atlanta, but what would happen

832

is because I was so specific with it.

833

When I talk to people in other.

834

, cities or I've even been to

Canada and done this bit.

835

It's like people all over the

country, unfortunately have some

836

version of what's happening in

martyr where people don't want.

837

Uh, group to be in a certain space.

838

You know, so they're doing

things to keep people out.

839

Yeah.

840

, and so that resonated with

folks and, you know, , again,

841

working with bill was fantastic.

842

So we kind of started putting out.

843

Safely.

844

Like these solo sketches that I had,

because we were able to either shoot like

845

outdoors or like socially distance and.

846

It got momentum.

847

And we were eventually approached by some

folks to make, Videos around voting.

848

Fair districting, all

these different things.

849

So we're like, oh, people are asking

us to, they want to pay us to do this.

850

So we formed a production company.

851

Awesome.

852

And so that production company is called.

853

Cool, cool productions.

854

. And so we've taken on, , clients like

new Georgia project and fair count.

855

We've worked with adult swim.

856

, you know, we're working with

United way of greater Atlanta

857

right now for a certain project.

858

And what we found is it's like the

things that bill and I just kind of like

859

naturally tend towards are things like

civic engagement, community building.

860

These are the things

that we just like anyway.

861

We like talking about Atlanta, right.

862

, and so the production company uses

comedy as a way to discuss these topics.

863

Something that we found was, you

know, if you talked to someone

864

about like boating, let's say.

865

Uh, it can be rough.

866

You know what I mean?

867

Cause it's like, especially

being at a place like Georgia

868

during an election season.

869

You find yourself being inundated, all

types of media, phone, call, texts, mail

870

knocks on doors, all that kind of stuff.

871

And it can be a lot, even if those

things are coming from a great place.

872

But what we found is with, uh,

comedy specifically comedy that isn't

873

attempting to incite joy in some way.

874

That makes you more likely to

take some form of an action.

875

You know, there's also really

important comedy being done this

876

like more satirical or whatever.

877

Yeah.

878

This also really important.

879

I think.

880

Necessary for like a dialogue.

881

Sure.

882

But it's just like, that may not

necessarily make you take an action.

883

So it's like a slightly different thing

to use a form of comedy that incites

884

some form of like joy specifically.

885

And those are also really useful tools

against like misinformation or just

886

like being depressed about a topic.

887

And so for these organizations that we're

working with, A lot of times they may

888

not necessarily use comedy all the time.

889

Some of them did, but.

890

But they may not necessarily

use comedy all the time.

891

And what they found was like, oh, when

we have like this dense, complicated,

892

new information that we're trying

to get to our audiences, What they

893

bought when they work with us, it's

like, oh, well, because we use comedy.

894

It's more surprising.

895

It's more engaging.

896

And a lot of times, if you, , here's

something new for the first

897

time, it can be challenging.

898

You.

899

Like I know in my experience,

I hear something new that runs

900

counter to what I already know.

901

I'm more likely to like, knock it down.

902

Sure.

903

But if it's something that's making

me laugh, as I'm hearing it, I might

904

be like, oh, that's kinda interesting.

905

I'm thinking about that.

906

And you're more likely to, you know,

think about that topic over time.

907

And maybe I might be more

likely to change my mind.

908

As opposed to like holding tighter

to what I already think to be true.

909

, and so that's what we've found.

910

And so we've gotten a chance

to do like a lot of really

911

cool projects because of that.

912

, one of them.

913

Uh, is our podcast we

have in collaboration.

914

With w a B E a, which is

called what's good Atlanta.

915

And so as a podcast, I cohost with

the great comedian data, Purdue,

916

not the politician, the community.

917

Yeah.

918

And we take, we take, you know, positive

uplifting stories in and around Atlanta.

919

And we kind of just

talk about what's good.

920

Literally it's a, it's a very

short 10 or 11 minute podcasts.

921

Bill will also do person on the

street interviews with folks

922

where he'll literally go to like

Piedmont park or wherever he's at.

923

And ask people like, Hey, what's good.

924

, and so, yeah, so that's kind of how

that, that, that partnership came to be.

925

That's so awesome.

926

Do you enjoy podcasting?

927

I do it's it's, uh, it's definitely

like a skill like, so, , bill and I,

928

we had a podcast with iHeart media

for awhile called ridiculous news.

929

And that was a great learning experience.

930

I enjoyed that too.

931

I enjoyed that very much.

932

Thanks.

933

Thank you.

934

But what I learned is it's like I had to

learn, I had to learn a bunch of things.

935

I mean, like, it was, there's

definitely like a learning curve.

936

I think for me when I first

started podcasting, I got, so

937

self-conscious about just saying.

938

The wrong thing.

939

And I think what has helped since

then is knowing like, I'm going

940

to say the wrong things sometimes.

941

Cause I'm like an imperfect person.

942

Sure.

943

I might say something that

I'm embarrassed by later.

944

, but, uh, I've learned to kind of

let that go a little bit more.

945

, because being in my head about

that doesn't really help me.

946

Okay.

947

Uh, and then also just working with

folks that I think are great, like

948

David and bill and our producer.

949

Scotty.

950

You know, All that helps, you know, So.

951

Uh, so, so it is

something that I do enjoy.

952

Yeah, but it was also very much

like a learning curve for sure.

953

Yeah.

954

I can obviously relate

to that learning curve.

955

Yeah.

956

But I think rewarding.

957

Yeah.

958

And it's leading you to tonight.

959

You're doing a live show.

960

, I have this podcast.

961

Yes.

962

Did you ever do anything

live with ridiculous news?

963

Will this be your first

foray into live podcasts?

964

So for ridiculous thing for a friend.

965

Yeah.

966

So for ridiculous news,

we never did a live thing.

967

And with WBE, I think, cause it's a little

bit more locally focused, like WBE they're

968

out in the community a little bit more.

969

So the, and because David and I are both

lie performers, it kinda makes it a little

970

bit more organic for us to do live stuff.

971

So for example, last week we

did our first live episode.

972

There was four or four day.

973

So we were at 4 0 4 day

and we did a live episode.

974

We talked to Tori who is one of the

founders of Atlanta influences everything.

975

It was a really nice time.

976

And so, , with this show, this

tonight, I'm very excited about it.

977

So.

978

, it's going to be part comedy

variety show part, David and I like.

979

, hopping on Mike's to

record our podcast as well.

980

She's going to be a

little bit of everything.

981

It truly is like an experiment.

982

Uh, and it came about, , because, , I

do work with this organization called

983

the center for artistic activism.

984

So I was a fellow of their as last year.

985

And occasionally I'll I'll help

facilitate workshops with them or

986

collaborate on different projects.

987

Uh, and they provided some funding

to basically carry out a civic

988

experiment, being like, Hey, how can

you, , increase excitement around

989

voting in a time when people are not.

990

You know, and so my pitch was, it's

just like, all right, well, I'm

991

going to put on this variety show.

992

, I'm going to give out free donuts.

993

I'm going to give out thank

you cards that I've written.

994

And I'm going to bring folks together

and, , we're going to have standup comics.

995

When I have poets, but in the middle.

996

, we're going to talk

about civic engagement.

997

So we've invited and say, Ooh,

fought, who is a brilliant mind.

998

She, , used to run new Georgia project.

999

Does all kinds of really cool

voting work around the world.

00:40:31,822 --> 00:40:33,682

, and you know, the goal for tonight.

00:40:33,712 --> 00:40:36,202

I don't know what we're going to talk

about, but the goal ideally is that we

00:40:36,202 --> 00:40:40,612

talk about, you know, how she finds joy

in her work, how she finds joy in voting.

00:40:40,732 --> 00:40:41,092

Yeah.

00:40:41,122 --> 00:40:44,152

And then we're also interviewing

a former guest of yours actually

00:40:44,182 --> 00:40:45,112

saw I was listening to you.

00:40:45,232 --> 00:40:45,742

Podcast.

00:40:45,802 --> 00:40:48,022

Uh, research, uh, Alex,

the Atlanta magnet.

00:40:48,982 --> 00:40:50,092

Yeah.

00:40:50,632 --> 00:40:51,292

Need royalty.

00:40:54,382 --> 00:40:55,012

Yeah.

00:40:55,042 --> 00:40:57,622

So, so listening to your

interview was amazing.

00:40:57,652 --> 00:40:57,712

It.

00:40:57,952 --> 00:41:01,732

I mean, it was a great interview,

but, , and so what was funny was, , we

00:41:01,822 --> 00:41:03,802

talked about him on the podcast once.

00:41:04,072 --> 00:41:05,812

And we're like, oh, it'd

be cool to talk to him.

00:41:06,172 --> 00:41:10,972

And then I found like, oh, Eric has

talked to Alex before and he I've

00:41:10,972 --> 00:41:12,832

lived next door to him for 16 years.

00:41:14,392 --> 00:41:14,692

Yeah.

00:41:15,112 --> 00:41:15,232

And.

00:41:15,622 --> 00:41:17,902

What's great about the

work that Alex does.

00:41:18,202 --> 00:41:21,112

Picking up the nails and

debris from the road.

00:41:21,502 --> 00:41:22,402

It's like, isn't it.

00:41:22,432 --> 00:41:24,802

It's like just another

form of civic engagement.

00:41:24,982 --> 00:41:30,502

You know, And so what I'm curious to see

is like, you know, talking about voting

00:41:30,502 --> 00:41:34,072

directly, but also talking about other

forms of civic engagement and just how

00:41:34,072 --> 00:41:36,112

there's a lot of different entry points.

00:41:36,502 --> 00:41:38,272

And just from two

completely different people.

00:41:38,692 --> 00:41:40,552

Um, and so, yeah.

00:41:40,552 --> 00:41:40,762

Yeah.

00:41:40,822 --> 00:41:41,002

And so.

00:41:41,062 --> 00:41:41,662

That's kind of cool.

00:41:46,582 --> 00:41:49,222

So it's really just kind of

like an experiment in the

00:41:49,222 --> 00:41:50,212

center of artistic activism.

00:41:50,212 --> 00:41:53,662

They're like, it's an experiment, meaning

like it can be a success or a failure,

00:41:53,662 --> 00:41:55,402

so don't be afraid to fail with it.

00:41:56,122 --> 00:41:58,432

I'm trying to remember that

because I think a lot of times.

00:41:59,092 --> 00:42:00,532

I'm going to produce a

live show or whatever.

00:42:00,532 --> 00:42:02,782

Um, Hosting something or making a video.

00:42:02,812 --> 00:42:06,982

I'm like, I cling tight to it being

like, it's gotta be good success.

00:42:07,222 --> 00:42:09,982

And what I'm trying to remind

myself for this is like, you

00:42:09,982 --> 00:42:11,722

know, it's okay if it's not.

00:42:11,752 --> 00:42:12,082

And.

00:42:12,502 --> 00:42:14,272

I don't think it was

going to be a good time.

00:42:14,362 --> 00:42:14,512

It's.

00:42:14,662 --> 00:42:19,072

Not that, but it's more so just allowing

myself to just experiment with it.

00:42:19,362 --> 00:42:20,322

, and being like, all right.

00:42:20,322 --> 00:42:23,442

So like we're trying to

mush these things together.

00:42:23,712 --> 00:42:28,422

If at some point it gets Rocky learn from

that, because then I can do another one.

00:42:28,482 --> 00:42:29,052

It's something like.

00:42:29,472 --> 00:42:31,662

And so that's kind of like the, the.

00:42:32,502 --> 00:42:33,522

The, , the attitude.

00:42:33,672 --> 00:42:35,082

Yeah, I'm trying to

take into this evening.

00:42:35,322 --> 00:42:39,072

I think it's wonderful because I think

for me, I'm such a perfectionist.

00:42:39,882 --> 00:42:43,872

And when it comes to creative endeavors,

those two things don't necessarily mix

00:42:43,872 --> 00:42:45,942

because you have to just put it out there.

00:42:46,182 --> 00:42:47,892

And kind of see what happens.

00:42:47,922 --> 00:42:48,162

Yeah.

00:42:48,732 --> 00:42:51,492

I mean, that's just the best attitude

to have of, you know, we're going to

00:42:51,762 --> 00:42:56,172

learn from this one way or another,

and I think defining success and

00:42:56,172 --> 00:42:59,982

failure for yourself to you as, you

know, Like just a individual thing.

00:43:00,042 --> 00:43:00,402

Yeah.

00:43:00,462 --> 00:43:00,642

Yeah.

00:43:00,732 --> 00:43:00,972

Thanks.

00:43:00,972 --> 00:43:01,422

I appreciate it.

00:43:01,752 --> 00:43:05,892

Uh, like a goal for mine like this just

in general, creatively has been to try to

00:43:05,892 --> 00:43:08,772

like, just put more out there in general.

00:43:08,772 --> 00:43:12,942

Like, I think that there are seasons when

like I'm doing more or I'm doing less.

00:43:13,062 --> 00:43:16,812

And I was just kinda like, let me

say yes to a few more shows that

00:43:16,812 --> 00:43:18,492

normally I may or may not normally do.

00:43:18,492 --> 00:43:20,922

So I perform with people that I

haven't performed with before.

00:43:21,252 --> 00:43:25,032

Let me do, let me apply to some things

that like I wouldn't normally apply to

00:43:25,032 --> 00:43:26,532

just for the sake of doing it, you know?

00:43:26,952 --> 00:43:30,582

So I've been trying to do more

of that, knowing that is not

00:43:30,612 --> 00:43:32,022

going to be perfect each time.

00:43:32,892 --> 00:43:35,472

But I feel like when you're

putting that energy out there as

00:43:35,472 --> 00:43:37,362

is, I wanted more of that feeling.

00:43:37,782 --> 00:43:39,402

Um, being like, oh, what about done?

00:43:39,432 --> 00:43:41,352

You know, Yeah, I like that a lot.

00:43:41,352 --> 00:43:43,632

And that was one of my favorite

takeaways from doing improv with

00:43:43,632 --> 00:43:47,592

like driving home after an improv

class and like analyzing what I did,

00:43:47,652 --> 00:43:48,942

what I would've done differently.

00:43:48,942 --> 00:43:53,052

And it's like these little quick kind

of forays into being vulnerable and

00:43:53,052 --> 00:43:57,552

trying new things with kind of a low

bar of risk at the end of the day.

00:43:57,942 --> 00:43:59,532

, May I have a quick question for you.

00:43:59,532 --> 00:43:59,682

If that's.

00:44:00,432 --> 00:44:00,672

Yeah.

00:44:00,672 --> 00:44:00,972

Yeah.

00:44:01,692 --> 00:44:02,202

Yeah.

00:44:02,412 --> 00:44:05,682

So like when, when, when you're you

mentioned being a perfectionist.

00:44:05,952 --> 00:44:08,112

Like, I, I feel like I am as well, like.

00:44:08,412 --> 00:44:09,552

What are the things that your birthday.

00:44:09,642 --> 00:44:10,692

Uh, the 15th of September.

00:44:10,902 --> 00:44:11,592

Oh, you're a Virgo.

00:44:16,542 --> 00:44:16,782

sorry.

00:44:17,172 --> 00:44:19,302

I was like, I already know the

answer to this, but let me just.

00:44:20,112 --> 00:44:20,742

Um, okay.

00:44:20,742 --> 00:44:21,552

Sorry to interrupt you.

00:44:21,612 --> 00:44:22,482

What were you asking me?

00:44:22,512 --> 00:44:24,282

So you mentioned, you mentioned

being a perfectionism.

00:44:24,462 --> 00:44:27,822

I'm curious, like for yourself,

like what do you do to.

00:44:28,242 --> 00:44:29,382

Either balance that out.

00:44:29,472 --> 00:44:31,002

You know, like w what, what are you.

00:44:31,242 --> 00:44:32,412

When Matt comes up.

00:44:32,802 --> 00:44:33,792

That's a wonderful question.

00:44:33,932 --> 00:44:40,592

, so I find that if I do a lot of, kind

of legwork in advance and I can use

00:44:40,592 --> 00:44:41,762

here's the, here's a really good example.

00:44:41,972 --> 00:44:45,902

, This past Sunday night, I hosted

a sound bath here at the shop.

00:44:46,132 --> 00:44:48,082

, there's this woman, Natasha riles.

00:44:48,112 --> 00:44:50,362

Who's a Atlanta woman who is awesome.

00:44:50,362 --> 00:44:52,102

She just does these amazing sound baths.

00:44:52,402 --> 00:44:56,362

And I wanted to kind of introduce

that to my clients here.

00:44:56,462 --> 00:44:59,312

, but again, I'm very kind of

particular about the flow of things.

00:44:59,822 --> 00:45:05,162

So I literally meditated and I just forced

myself to just picture, like, start to

00:45:05,162 --> 00:45:07,862

finish how that whole experience would go.

00:45:08,102 --> 00:45:12,752

Um, and then I wrote it all down

and then I, uh, in a non meditative

00:45:12,752 --> 00:45:15,222

state, read through it and just

kind of pictured analytically,

00:45:15,222 --> 00:45:16,122

like how's that going to work?

00:45:16,152 --> 00:45:16,302

Dah.

00:45:16,662 --> 00:45:20,292

So I really, I think I go out of my

way and maybe it's a little anxiety to

00:45:20,292 --> 00:45:24,492

you, but to kind of in advance, figure

out, oh, that's not going to work or

00:45:24,492 --> 00:45:26,292

here's the pitfall potential here.

00:45:26,532 --> 00:45:29,562

, so I like to eliminate kind of obvious.

00:45:29,862 --> 00:45:32,382

Issues or failures that

could come with an idea.

00:45:32,662 --> 00:45:37,582

, and then I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm more

relaxed and I can show up to this and be

00:45:37,582 --> 00:45:41,302

kind of open and just let it unfold and

things didn't go exactly the way that

00:45:41,302 --> 00:45:43,252

I had written down in my little list.

00:45:43,372 --> 00:45:45,292

On Sunday, but they probably want better.

00:45:45,412 --> 00:45:45,892

Right?

00:45:46,072 --> 00:45:46,792

Great feedback.

00:45:46,792 --> 00:45:48,052

And it was a wonderful event.

00:45:48,352 --> 00:45:53,392

, and yeah, so I think I just, I try to get

ahead of potential issues from the jump

00:45:53,602 --> 00:45:57,742

and then just know like, Hey, you've done

what you can, as far as that goes, Now you

00:45:57,742 --> 00:45:59,392

just have to show up and just be present.

00:45:59,542 --> 00:46:00,292

Wow.

00:46:00,322 --> 00:46:03,232

I love the, uh, what you

mentioned about meditating it,

00:46:03,232 --> 00:46:04,222

writing it down, reading it.

00:46:04,372 --> 00:46:05,662

Yeah, I'm going to take that.

00:46:05,782 --> 00:46:06,382

You should.

00:46:06,952 --> 00:46:08,842

, and I'm sure you know this

with your morning pages.

00:46:08,842 --> 00:46:11,152

It's like, there's something

about pen to paper that.

00:46:11,242 --> 00:46:16,822

Like really just it's that does something

in your neuro pathways that a scientist

00:46:16,822 --> 00:46:20,122

could tell you about, better than I

can, but I really do like, feel better.

00:46:20,122 --> 00:46:22,762

Just kind of physically getting it out.

00:46:23,102 --> 00:46:26,222

, so yeah, that's a very, very

important part of my creative process.

00:46:26,282 --> 00:46:26,882

Yeah.

00:46:27,152 --> 00:46:27,902

That's really helpful.

00:46:28,142 --> 00:46:28,742

To hear that.

00:46:29,402 --> 00:46:29,702

Yeah.

00:46:29,822 --> 00:46:30,632

I feel freedom to freedom.

00:46:31,232 --> 00:46:31,742

Sure.

00:46:31,902 --> 00:46:33,432

, I remember what I was

going to ask you before.

00:46:33,732 --> 00:46:38,832

So what you referenced COVID are you,

is this your main source of income?

00:46:38,832 --> 00:46:42,432

Like how did you fare COVID cause

as a creative and same for me, like,

00:46:42,432 --> 00:46:43,512

I didn't work for three months.

00:46:43,512 --> 00:46:44,622

I had no income for three months.

00:46:44,652 --> 00:46:45,522

It's scary.

00:46:45,772 --> 00:46:47,002

, so how did you navigate that?

00:46:47,002 --> 00:46:48,082

How did it impact you?

00:46:48,292 --> 00:46:49,762

Oh, it changed.

00:46:49,822 --> 00:46:51,322

I mean, everything went upside down.

00:46:51,622 --> 00:46:57,142

It's just like, fortunately

like certain gigs that I had did

00:46:57,172 --> 00:46:59,032

move to being virtual, you know?

00:46:59,032 --> 00:47:02,532

So like, , rip creative circus, for

example, like that's an example of

00:47:02,532 --> 00:47:06,042

like a gig I had where I was teaching

in person and that moved to virtual.

00:47:06,072 --> 00:47:06,342

Cool.

00:47:06,402 --> 00:47:09,552

Fortunately it's like,

things like that did happen.

00:47:09,852 --> 00:47:13,152

And like, because more things were

moved, moving virtually more gigs moved.

00:47:13,512 --> 00:47:18,082

Virtually, which was nice, but it

really like shifted a whole bunch.

00:47:18,142 --> 00:47:18,352

Yeah.

00:47:18,382 --> 00:47:21,952

Because I mean, before the pandemic,

like I mentioned, I was mostly saw

00:47:21,952 --> 00:47:24,112

myself as like a live performer.

00:47:24,472 --> 00:47:28,992

And post pandemic, I still perform

when I can, but so much more of

00:47:28,992 --> 00:47:33,432

my time now goes towards things

that are in some way related to.

00:47:33,782 --> 00:47:35,612

, you know, building up

this production company.

00:47:36,002 --> 00:47:40,742

Whether it's like trying to plan for a

shoot, but also more so just like building

00:47:40,742 --> 00:47:46,622

relationships with folks that we work

with or are in similar fields, like not

00:47:46,622 --> 00:47:50,132

even necessarily to work with them, but

just like to build these relationships.

00:47:50,132 --> 00:47:51,572

So it's just like the way.

00:47:52,022 --> 00:47:55,202

Uh, also like I went from being

like a night person, you know?

00:47:55,202 --> 00:47:58,142

Cause it's just like, you

just be out all night.

00:47:58,562 --> 00:48:00,572

To now, like, I'm like, oh

man, I think I've been a

00:48:00,572 --> 00:48:01,682

morning person this whole time.

00:48:02,162 --> 00:48:05,882

So, so it was like, you know, like, and I

can do the late night thing, but I think

00:48:05,882 --> 00:48:07,712

I'm more naturally like a morning person.

00:48:07,712 --> 00:48:08,462

So interesting.

00:48:09,032 --> 00:48:12,632

Like I could probably talk for a

while about all the things that

00:48:12,692 --> 00:48:17,702

that changed, but it was definitely

like of like a very big shift.

00:48:18,092 --> 00:48:19,712

But what, what about Joseph?

00:48:20,102 --> 00:48:21,782

, it's interesting, kind of similar to you.

00:48:21,812 --> 00:48:25,802

I learned, I took

advantage of the downtime.

00:48:26,042 --> 00:48:30,272

And I did kind of learn about

myself in ways that I didn't have

00:48:30,272 --> 00:48:34,562

the opportunity to when you're just

like, You've got your schedule.

00:48:34,592 --> 00:48:36,722

You're like, I'm going

to work on these days.

00:48:36,722 --> 00:48:37,892

I sleep at these times.

00:48:37,892 --> 00:48:41,402

I socialize at these times, everything

was kind of pre prescribed and I'd been

00:48:41,402 --> 00:48:42,962

doing things the same way for so long.

00:48:42,962 --> 00:48:43,202

I.

00:48:43,412 --> 00:48:46,472

I there wasn't an opportunity

to take a step back and assess.

00:48:46,862 --> 00:48:51,962

Is this in tune with my natural,

like inclinations and body rhythms

00:48:51,962 --> 00:48:52,982

and all of that type of stuff.

00:48:53,262 --> 00:48:54,882

, so kind of like you I'm like,

yeah, I looked a little.

00:48:54,912 --> 00:48:55,902

Go to bed kind of early.

00:48:56,152 --> 00:48:58,552

, I wouldn't call myself a

morning person either per se.

00:48:59,422 --> 00:49:00,442

I just like to sleep.

00:49:00,472 --> 00:49:02,602

I really, I enjoyed the leisure.

00:49:02,852 --> 00:49:04,772

, but I enjoy an income even more.

00:49:05,162 --> 00:49:07,502

, but there was, , Actually, I

don't know if you remember this.

00:49:07,532 --> 00:49:08,552

It was when you were teaching.

00:49:08,702 --> 00:49:09,902

I broke my finger.

00:49:09,932 --> 00:49:10,292

Do you remember?

00:49:10,322 --> 00:49:11,672

I came in for like a giant cats.

00:49:13,152 --> 00:49:18,192

, but that planted the seed of like, I

need to have like revenue and income

00:49:18,342 --> 00:49:23,442

that isn't based solely on me cutting

hair or being physically present at work.

00:49:23,622 --> 00:49:25,782

, which kind of for you as a live

performer, it's like, okay,

00:49:25,782 --> 00:49:27,072

there's you gotta diversify.

00:49:27,312 --> 00:49:29,622

And so COVID kind of really was up.