Join us on this special episode of the No Grey Areas Podcast as we welcome Shannon Hatchett, the sprinting head coach at ASU, alongside her husband, Brent Hatchett. Shannon brings her expertise as a former D1 hurdler and sprinter at Florida State University, sharing insights into the mindset required for athletic success.

In this episode, we dive deep into the world of collegiate athletics, exploring the unique challenges athletes face, including self-doubt and mental health. Shannon emphasizes the importance of overcoming mental barriers and finding strength in faith, encouraging athletes to look beyond their limitations.

We also discuss practical tips for living a balanced life. Brent shares his struggles with leadership and how he’s learned to slow down and be present, while Shannon offers wisdom on creating intentional habits and maintaining structure at home. Together, they emphasize the power of positive self-talk, family values, and spiritual growth to win life’s race!

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No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com

Host

Today we have a special podcast episode with ASU track coach, former college athlete, mother and wife Shannon Hatchett. Joining me as a co-host, we have her husband, my dear friend Brant Hatchett. We discuss all the realms of work life balance, being a parent, the mindset of a college athlete, and practical tips how to slow down in our busy lives.

Host

Let's get started.

Pat McCalla

well, Brant and Shannon Hatchett, welcome to the No Gray Areas podcast. Brant, you're going to be kind of my co-host

Brent Hatchett

today.

Brent Hatchett

Let's go really

Pat McCalla

interviewing Shannon today and

Pat McCalla

we're going to jump right in. But you're a coach at ASU.

Pat McCalla

How long have you been coaching there.

Shannon Hatchett

so August will be five years

Pat McCalla

coached the sprinters,

Shannon Hatchett

Yep. Sprinters and hurdlers.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So part of what I want to do is jump into the mindset of an athlete because this podcast is all about the power and complexity of human choice, that we make our choices and eventually our choices make us. And

Pat McCalla

I coached, but not in a much lower level than your coaching at was a

Shannon Hatchett

high level in Montana.

Shannon Hatchett

Florida,

Shannon Hatchett

I am not a Gators fan. I'm a Seminole. I went to Florida State University.

Pat McCalla

And there's a big distinction between

Shannon Hatchett

those.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes. Yep. Yeah, I get it a lot when people are like, oh, you're from Florida. So the Florida Gators. No, we're biggest enemies.

Shannon Hatchett

Why why are they

Pat McCalla

Gators. Because that is everybody thinks of the Gators right away. And I probably can get in trouble for saying that to you. But

Pat McCalla

what is it about Florida where that's that's the school, isn't it?

Shannon Hatchett

Honestly, I really don't know. I think it's just University of Florida. It's just easier when you say Florida, whereas it's like, okay, Florida State. So I don't I don't know, I think it's just a preference because they're both kind of North Florida area. Yeah. Like they're two hours apart. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

So

Pat McCalla

and you actually grew up around where the Gators

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah I grew up in Gainesville, Florida.

Shannon Hatchett

I don't know where you were.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah, I actually kind of were. So you could call me a little bit of a traitor, but

Shannon Hatchett

I really wanted to get out of Gainesville. I didn't go very far. Clearly two hours up the road, but, I definitely don't regret being a Seminole at all.

Pat McCalla

did you choose that school was a based on coaching or any like, did you meet the coaches or was it the school or the coaches? What what drew you up

Shannon Hatchett

there? I think it was the coaches. I think my high school coach, she knew one of the coaches there, and I connected with her, and

Pat McCalla

Well, any I mean, I used to coach at the high school level and, but that I recognize some of the few of the athletes that I coached made it to Division one. Any college level.

Pat McCalla

I mean, it's almost a full time job for you, isn't it, as a, as a college athlete.

Shannon Hatchett

it is.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. So did you pick did you choose right.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes I did no I, I still talk to she's actually one of my mentors my coach from college. Yes. Carla, whenever I need advice.

Brent Hatchett

Now I got to ask this question. I know.

Brent Hatchett

You look at any time you want out of.

Brent Hatchett

all the schools in Florida,

Shannon Hatchett

which one

Shannon Hatchett

The most swag? Florida State, by far.

Shannon Hatchett

I know what he's thinking, but.

Shannon Hatchett

Why do you like I.

Shannon Hatchett

Mean, I'm not lying. I'm giving my honest opinion.

Shannon Hatchett

Hey, so you're saying.

Shannon Hatchett

No, he's not. He's talking about the you.

Shannon Hatchett

Not out to the. You know.

Shannon Hatchett

I don't even know who they are.

Shannon Hatchett

The University of Miami. Okay?

Shannon Hatchett

I'm not going to say the disrespect. Yeah, yeah. And also shout out to the Rattlers.

Shannon Hatchett

By the way, I.

Shannon Hatchett

Actually graduate.

Shannon Hatchett

Of.

Shannon Hatchett

University, but it's not about me. It's a bunch of you, right?

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So, so you went there, sprinting

Shannon Hatchett

Yes. Sprinter. A hurdler and hurdler. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

High school.

Pat McCalla

to the 400 hurdles

Pat McCalla

now for our audience that maybe didn't do track. We were talking before we turned the mics. I'm convinced the most painful race there is is either the 400 or the 800.

Pat McCalla

That's one lap around the track or two laps around the track. And the reason those are so painful is like the 400, somewhat the 800. But it's just you're just supposed to sprint that whole thing. It's not like you're pacing yourself. You just sprint it. But then hurdles, you put things that you have to jump over in the middle of that.

Shannon Hatchett

That's

Shannon Hatchett

because it takes your, like, you have to attack the hurdles if you run the event. Right. So whereas when your legs might start to feel lactic, it takes your mind off of that because you got to jump over that hurdle. Whereas when you're just running open, that's all you feel. There's nothing to block, that feeling that you're feeling.

Shannon Hatchett

So sometimes it can be a little easier is what I found for 400 hurdlers.

Pat McCalla

Well when you said that that makes sense. There's probably we could come up with a,

Shannon Hatchett

I'm sure. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

Because if there's a

Shannon Hatchett

down the line.

Shannon Hatchett

A straight.

Shannon Hatchett

Long ways to go. But

Pat McCalla

when there's a

Shannon Hatchett

Hurdle, you know you're a.

Shannon Hatchett

Little

Pat McCalla

closer to you, and you're saying that makes it

Pat McCalla

maybe a

Shannon Hatchett

little easier.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes. That's a mindset you can use to deal with it, for sure.

Shannon Hatchett

I never thought about that

Shannon Hatchett

crazy. We talked about

Pat McCalla

that when you when when you become lactic again. Some of our audience, maybe they didn't do athletics, but, you know, if they just go to the gym and they work out, they know what that

Shannon Hatchett

muscles fatigue.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

on the

Pat McCalla

run. Yep. And in the 400, when you come off that last, that last corner, that second corner, you got that

Pat McCalla

definitely you everything's lactic right.

Shannon Hatchett

Yep. Everything's lactic. So when we're training and I know this is going, but when we're training and we try to teach them how to through run it through the lactic controlling your breathing and things like that. So relaxed when you feel that.

Pat McCalla

Which is one of the things that's fascinating about watching high level track athletes, because you will see them a lot of times they're in pain and you'll still see. And that's the training

Shannon Hatchett

relaxed pace. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

and yeah, if you watch someone who's not

Shannon Hatchett

trained, athletes.

Shannon Hatchett

Can be pretty.

Shannon Hatchett

You're not relaxed. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Yeah. You could see the pain written all over them.

Pat McCalla

So one of the things we wanted to do, Shannon, is unpack a little bit. And Brant, you help me out, here's a

Brent Hatchett

you

Brent Hatchett

Yeah. Every

Pat McCalla

Division one athlete. I've talked to her interview, they're always like kind of downplay it. They're like, well, there's a lot of division. Not when you take the percentage of the totality of all the athletes in America, just our country. And how many of them actually make it to Division one level?

Pat McCalla

It's a pretty small percentage. So

Pat McCalla

I'm going to say you were a high

Shannon Hatchett

level one.

Shannon Hatchett

Okay.

Shannon Hatchett

And and then

Shannon Hatchett

mind.

Pat McCalla

what are some of the things that you see as athletes that really hold them back, their mindset that that you that you as a coach are often having to deal

Shannon Hatchett

with?

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah, mindset. the biggest mindset, honestly, is, having belief or confidence in their self, in their abilities.

Shannon Hatchett

time and time again, like if you're at that level, you're clearly talented, but sometimes they work hard. They put it all in, you know, put all the effort in. But then when they get to the big state, it's like they're doubting the doubt.

Shannon Hatchett

They're doubting their self, not trust in, the work they've put in, at least for track and field. That's what I see a lot, because you're on the line by yourself, and that's definitely something that's a little different from. Whereas like a bad sport, like basketball or football, you have your team with you track. Yes, we're a team sport, but it's you on the line by yourself.

Shannon Hatchett

You have to do it like there's nobody to come. Hey, bail you out. Throw the ball, pass the ball. Nope.

Shannon Hatchett

No one's carrying the.

Shannon Hatchett

You know, no one's helping you out. Yep.

Pat McCalla

So does that does that mindset, that doubting is that comes from self-talk. Is that a lot

Shannon Hatchett

of self? Yeah, a lot of self-talk. and I know,

Shannon Hatchett

mental health is like, I guess I would say is a lot bigger now than when I was in school. So just that with that being at the forefront, you just see a lot of athletes that they just, it will wear them down, to the point to where they'll run certain times in practice.

Shannon Hatchett

And then when I get to the meet, you wouldn't even think, they ran those times.

Pat McCalla

So they're that they do well in practice. But when they get in front that when it, when it matters

Pat McCalla

run those same times. Do you think do you think that this idea of mental health like it is common language now we talk about it. Do you think that's

Pat McCalla

been good or bad? Is that that help?

Pat McCalla

I'm

Shannon Hatchett

specifically talking about the athletic field.

Shannon Hatchett

I think it's oh, I think it's good because I think it is healthy to have someone, like, actually be able to express that dialog and not just be like, oh, well, get over it. So I do think is healthy, but I also think that, is healthy in a, I guess I want to say, contained environment. I don't know if that makes sense, but like in an environment where it's not being used as a crutch, sometimes, but where it's something like, okay, clearly you do have this mental block.

Shannon Hatchett

Let's figure out how we can get over this mental block, and not just use it as a crutch to get out of doing what you're supposed to be doing.

Pat McCalla

We had someone on the podcast, about a year ago or something, and she's a counselor, and she works with us. She's doing a lot of, like, study of the brain. And she said something I thought was so fascinating. She said the brain has been, until fairly recently, the least studied part of the human

Shannon Hatchett

body.

Shannon Hatchett

And

Shannon Hatchett

It.

Shannon Hatchett

You got to figure out how

Shannon Hatchett

Oh, 100%.

Brent Hatchett

100% pass. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

come for a message about your problem.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. And I'm also dealing with my own.

Shannon Hatchett

That's.

Shannon Hatchett

It's not just people. So

Brent Hatchett

so she's 100% spot on. And it's through those like tough spots that I've kind of learned to recognize. and I'll bring the spiritual perspective in there, that oftentimes that negative mindset is not my voice. It's actually the enemy's voice.

Brent Hatchett

It's a it's a voice of an adversary. It's a voice of the one that wants you to stop you from becoming who it is that God's called and destined and desired to steal, kill, and destroy for you to be.

Brent Hatchett

I think some of those ways as a part of mental health, I think a part of mental health is also just making sure you've got good spiritual health.

Brent Hatchett

So and I know at some point we'll talk about overcoming those mental obstacles. But one of the things that I see her do, and we practice it in our household is separately just having some quiet time, quiet time with the Lord, reading scripture, listening to worship. She likes to journal, and she can talk more about that. I'm a bit of a crybaby, so I'll my quiet time.

Brent Hatchett

There's a bunch of tears that,

Brent Hatchett

There's too many. Yeah.

Brent Hatchett

There's there's a bunch of tears that that flow in my quiet. but there's also just looking out for the little reminders of his truth, and not the truth I've made to be true. Yeah, right in his truth is this. I'm more than an overcomer in Christ Jesus. That his truth is he's for me. He's not against me.

Brent Hatchett

His truth is, even though I feel like I'm standing on the line by myself, greater is the one that's in me than the one that's in the world. I have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of me, and we can go on and on and on. But, man, these are all things that I see her not only implement in her personal life, but I see her try to implement it in the lives of the athletes that the Lord has.

Brent Hatchett

Trust her to do it. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Do you mind if I go back and ask a little bit about your spiritual

Shannon Hatchett

journey? You

Pat McCalla

grow up in a Christian home?

Shannon Hatchett

I did, yeah.

Pat McCalla

Okay.

Pat McCalla

was that connected with the loss of the athletic mind and the the spiritual mind. Were those connected for you? Were you connect you know, when you're trying to overcome your own negative

Shannon Hatchett

self-talk

Shannon Hatchett

time?

Shannon Hatchett

No, they were very intertwined.

Shannon Hatchett

as I've gotten older now, it's funny that you ask that, I realized as my relationships developed with Christ, it was a lot of then, like, God, do this for me, do this for me. And then if you didn't do it, like, help me win this race, it's like, dang God, like

Shannon Hatchett

failed me.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes. And now, as I've grown like in my maturity as a Christian, it's like, okay, well, that wasn't in God's will and I'm right where I need to be. That doesn't mean that I'm not good enough, doesn't mean he doesn't love me. So, that's kind of how I guess it played a part in, in my journey. with Christ.

Pat McCalla

That's huge though, Shannon, because I think that most people that are listening, that are people of faith, we have some that aren't necessarily that listen. But but anybody who's a person of faith, who's listening, I bet all of them would go back and go as they're doing their maturity, their their their journey of maturity,

Shannon Hatchett

sky.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

And

Shannon Hatchett

You know, I just

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. Because people

Shannon Hatchett

brought

Shannon Hatchett

Yep. Right. You even saw that as an athlete?

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Pat McCalla

What are some ways that you guys deal as a coach now that you help them overcome that negative self-talk?

Shannon Hatchett

So lots of one, lots of just communication, and pouring into them the positive thoughts. that's just self-talk like, hey, you've got this, but more importantly, showing them. So when we're writing our workouts is also want to train their bodies, but also to show them that you are capable of hitting the times that you may think that are far, far reached are that you can't hear so well.

Shannon Hatchett

in practice, I know, like a lot of people think me just go out there, run because I'm a track coach, but it's a lot more put into it. So breaking up the race to like where you should be at a certain point, just really breaking it down for them so they have no room for you have no room for self-doubt.

Shannon Hatchett

I think that's the biggest thing. Clearly we have, like you said, having the right people around, and we have, actual mental health coaches for them who also help them off the track to, you know, clear their mind. and to be able to whether it be journal are positive affirmations, whatever it may be, so that they can get get through the race, get through the races and get through practice.

Pat McCalla

this is why I wanted to have you on here, because

Pat McCalla

knew this was going to go in this direction, because it's so fascinating that this in the coaching world now, I there's probably hardly a professional team out there that you wouldn't have someone who's not just coaching them on how they make the right block or how

Shannon Hatchett

they get

Shannon Hatchett

up here.

Shannon Hatchett

Yep.

Shannon Hatchett

And and

Pat McCalla

and there's a reason for that.

Pat McCalla

Right. Because our self-talk, it's just like you said, they can run a certain time in practice, but also they can't do it in the game. And I think, again, for our listeners, we have the same thing.

Pat McCalla

There's probably more self-talk going on with every single one of us than than we really

Shannon Hatchett

yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

We really

Shannon Hatchett

the

Brent Hatchett

I would never say those

Brent Hatchett

myself and I didn't then I don't even realize I'm saying it to myself sometimes.

Brent Hatchett

Right?

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

Yep. That's something I do. And I've noticed like some of our athletes, they'll do that as well. Like before the race when one of the girls and I know a few of them do it. But like, you know, she's writing down and she's actually she's writing down her scriptures or she's writing it down because she gets so nervous.

Shannon Hatchett

So that helps her to calm her nerves. That's what she's figured out for her. So you find everybody has something different that helps them calm their nerves, are prepare their mind, whether there's music or a certain routine they have to do. I think that's why you see those things with different, even in different sports, because that's what helps them to clear their mind so they can perform at the level that they're being asked to perform it.

Pat McCalla

The imposter syndrome,

Brent Hatchett

is what we talked about.

Shannon Hatchett

I think I

Shannon Hatchett

here.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah

Shannon Hatchett

Okay

Pat McCalla

I know you two struggle with imposter syndrome, and I. Do.

Shannon Hatchett

this back on me

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

with?

Shannon Hatchett

You're not. Oh, you

Shannon Hatchett

some time

Pat McCalla

with God that you have to try to

Pat McCalla

put

Shannon Hatchett

I mean, this is a great question right now. Like I told you, we just came back from conference. So in our conference meet was not we didn't perform where we needed to. So as mean for me as a coach, clearly we evaluate the athletes. But you also have to evaluate yourself. So for me it's like, okay, am I supposed to be am I supposed to give the profession like, hey, I got to step up my recruiting game.

Shannon Hatchett

Maybe I'm not good. And like, you know, so those kind of self-doubts come in for me as a coach because a part of our job is more in recruiting. So we have to recruit the right athletes. We have to be able to make those connections to get them to come, to the school. But also we have to coach them when they get here.

Shannon Hatchett

So,

Shannon Hatchett

that's definitely right now. Self doubt as far as just life and what I'm dealing with right now.

Pat McCalla

What about you,

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

for sure.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

I mean no not at all. Yeah. No, no

Brent Hatchett

I would say the one that I probably have dealt with and I'm using the word dealt as in past tense. Okay.

Brent Hatchett

But it's this idea of being an insufficient leader. And one of the reasons why I think I got caught up on being an insufficient leader is because I found myself just being too anxious.

Brent Hatchett

Right. I have an accomplishment. I've had done enough, haven't let enough. And one of the pictures, right?

Pat McCalla

self-talk.

Brent Hatchett

It's the.

Brent Hatchett

Self.

Shannon Hatchett

haven't had to correct.

Brent Hatchett

And whether it's an

Brent Hatchett

correct. All of our listeners

Brent Hatchett

have.

Brent Hatchett

Correct. So essentially I'll give you two, two analogies. One, there's this moment where, Jacob wrestles with God and he says, man, I'm not going to let you go until you bless me. Indeed. So a part of me overcoming my inability and feeling like an insufficient leader. I've had to wrestle with the Lord to have him literally say, hey, I can't.

Brent Hatchett

I can't keep living like this. I can't keep going down this road like, you got to help me overcome this, and I'm not going to let you go till you bless me. Indeed. so that's one thing. And I remember there was a window where I was, I don't know, in a 48 hour period where I was running on maybe four hours of sleep, like literally just wrestling with the Lord.

Brent Hatchett

But then secondly, here's a picture that the Lord just kind of gave me as far as what it look like for me to to walk in this, imposter syndrome. So my pace in my mind was doing this.

Brent Hatchett

And then one day it was very simple. He was like, you just need to settle and settle. Looks like this.

Brent Hatchett

Right. And then as this is going on, here's instead of me listening to the thoughts of the enemy, I have to remind myself that, number one, God is sovereign. So where I am right now, in this moment, he knew I would be there from the very beginning of time. So I'm not insufficient. This isn't catching him by surprise.

Brent Hatchett

It's just catching me by surprise. Number two, I don't have to stay here. I can continue to grow, but I don't have to make anything happen. I just have to trust his plan. Walk in obedience, keep clean hands and a pure heart. Now I'm listening to a different voice, which is really scripture. And all this is helping me do is just, oh, I can be settled.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah, yeah.

Brent Hatchett

I can be settled.

Pat McCalla

Wow.

Pat McCalla

By the way, you kept a pretty good beat

Shannon Hatchett

I know.

Shannon Hatchett

That's.

Shannon Hatchett

Just.

Brent Hatchett

Hey.

Pat McCalla

So

Pat McCalla

what what did you found that, you know, because you use this and you go on, and this again, I think a lot of our listeners are going. That's how I'm living life right now.

Shannon Hatchett

That's what it feels like.

Brent Hatchett

Right.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

What were some of the practical things I think you mentioned, some of them that you, you two have figured out to do to, to get life to do that more

Pat McCalla

to, to slow down

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

I know one thing he said is the quiet time. two just I mean, it's a simple thing. I know people like not everybody likes vision or goal, but like, having that goal, but also just knowing that giving your self, I guess, grace to like, mess up and know that. Okay, if I didn't do it this time, God still got me.

Shannon Hatchett

And like, that's what I'm telling myself. Not necessarily. All the athletes are telling myself that myself, but, you know, just giving yourself grace. Okay? I messed up this time. That doesn't mean that I'm a failure and I'm never going to run that again. So that's

Shannon Hatchett

the part of the positive affirmations or whatnot. I don't know what else.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. So on

Brent Hatchett

a practical level, just good, good people around you, good mentors who can call you out on your crap, who can tell you the truth when the enemy is trying to speak lies. So that's one thing.

Brent Hatchett

And you're

Pat McCalla

still in your life

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah, yeah.

Brent Hatchett

But then the second thing that I'm learning is,

Brent Hatchett

as a believer, but I. There's no way I can mess this up. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

If I

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

me from talking too much. But

Brent Hatchett

but, like, Peter's my favorite character in scripture, right? Because he's. And here's the reason why he's one of the most gifted individuals. And out of all of the disciples, number two, he is in the top three. As far as being closest to Jesus. But then number three,

Shannon Hatchett

bigger than that,

Brent Hatchett

he just is a goofball, like he's a hot mess.com.

Shannon Hatchett

how messed up

Shannon Hatchett

the worst times.

Shannon Hatchett

And

Shannon Hatchett

to you, father. Heaven.

Shannon Hatchett

oh, you can't die

Pat McCalla

Yep. Yeah, I can still it's. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

three times.

Brent Hatchett

After saying I would

Shannon Hatchett

die for you. But

Brent Hatchett

then we fast forward to acts chapter two. And

Brent Hatchett

this is the man who stewards the greatest move on the earth that has ever happened the day of Pentecost.

Brent Hatchett

So all those failures.

Shannon Hatchett

You

Brent Hatchett

can't mess this up.

Brent Hatchett

They weren't.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah, you cannot mess this up.

Pat McCalla

And I

Brent Hatchett

think we're done.

Pat McCalla

like is it whether you're an athlete

Pat McCalla

this is where the faith part goes in there. You coach a lot of people that don't come from a

Shannon Hatchett

place of right good

Pat McCalla

with people.

Pat McCalla

when we have that, like when I recognize that my standing before God has nothing to do with what my time is on that track.

Shannon Hatchett

Right.

Shannon Hatchett

And

Brent Hatchett

that's

Shannon Hatchett

Right?

Pat McCalla

That's that's huge, isn't

Shannon Hatchett

it.

Pat McCalla

So what else do you guys. Because quiet time. I find that interesting. You guys were actually made this part of your family.

Pat McCalla

Like, is this a practice you do as a family or you got to.

Shannon Hatchett

help your kids or not.

Shannon Hatchett

And

Pat McCalla

Okay, there's no such thing as quiet time with nine and three

Shannon Hatchett

hours before they get up.

Shannon Hatchett

Okay. So you try to.

Shannon Hatchett

Go for that. Yes. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

But that's a great point though because again, some people are listening and they go, well I can't do that

Brent Hatchett

Yes you can, but

Shannon Hatchett

You guys are in a

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

She's better at me than I am.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

it's only the last eight months

Pat McCalla

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

Yeah, yeah.

Pat McCalla

so you're getting up at five.

Pat McCalla

For.

Pat McCalla

Congrats. And then you moved two years to six.

Shannon Hatchett

But I still get up at five so I can have my ready to go. Yeah. Yes.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

I think I've just developed it. and I think being an athlete has really been a big part of that amount.

Shannon Hatchett

Why put the other one up,

Brent Hatchett

FAM. Do y'all see

Shannon Hatchett

these vain.

Shannon Hatchett

Oh my gosh. That's just because I've always had that.

Shannon Hatchett

Even fam that's up 10% body fat.

Brent Hatchett

Those are earned. so

Pat McCalla

when you look back, you said you think you learned it through athletics. You weren't just naturally a disciplined person when you were a little girl

Pat McCalla

or were you somewhat. And then at the athletics time just really

Shannon Hatchett

I think within athletics, I honed in on that, having a goal, I guess, that I wanted to achieve. And okay, I'm very I think even within our family, I'm very much like, okay, we want to do this. How can we do it? Like it's not just going to happen out of thin air. So we're going to, yes, plan steps.

Shannon Hatchett

How are we going to get there clearly now I mean even then I knew God. You know, he always has a plan. I know that if you have a plan, it can, you know, derail sometimes because it's not always what you think. But I always I fully believe you should at least have some sort of plan. Our where you're going to achieve whatever goal it may.

Shannon Hatchett

May have to change.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

Guaranteed. Not to get there. You have no plan.

Shannon Hatchett

Exactly.

Pat McCalla

yeah, that's what you're saying. But that, you know man, this is why it's so good having you on here. Because again, we talk about the power and complexity of human choice as people of faith.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah. I think it's

Shannon Hatchett

choices.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

That

Pat McCalla

with it, but our habits,

Pat McCalla

mean this we could do a whole podcast on just

Shannon Hatchett

it. Yeah. It sounds

Shannon Hatchett

Whatever, whatever it is.

Shannon Hatchett

Without habits. And

Pat McCalla

usually little habits, you know, get up at five or get up at six or and then the accumulative,

Pat McCalla

you get up at six, you're not going get rid of the dad bod getting up at six one day. Right.

Brent Hatchett

No, you got to do.

Brent Hatchett

It every day.

Brent Hatchett

Compounding.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So that's that's part of the choice thing. And you see that was that's why I think that the athletic mind is so important. No one who's an athlete who's going to do go to a high level

Pat McCalla

is going to get there without good habits.

Shannon Hatchett

Correct. Yeah. Yeah,

Pat McCalla

anything else you want to say on, on on self-talk, negative self-talk?

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. I mean, it is, it is, is big.

Shannon Hatchett

it could take a whole season or two seasons for somebody to have a breakthrough. And I think that's the same kind of like what Brant was saying. It could be the same applying to just your everyday life. Like your self-talk can hold you back for years.

Shannon Hatchett

so until you can speak that positivity or find a way to have somebody speaking to you or whether it's through the word or whatever it may be like, it just it can affect your life.

Shannon Hatchett

daily.

Shannon Hatchett

breakthrough.

Brent Hatchett

and subconsciously

Shannon Hatchett

No. So

Shannon Hatchett

scripture brought

Brent Hatchett

through fear. Yep.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. Which

Brent Hatchett

So what you're talking.

Brent Hatchett

Yep.

Shannon Hatchett

Okay.

Shannon Hatchett

someone who's talented.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

Yep. Okay.

Pat McCalla

Wow.

Pat McCalla

So so let me let me transition a little bit then.

Pat McCalla

You're a mom.

Pat McCalla

We already talked about

Shannon Hatchett

right?

Shannon Hatchett

You

Shannon Hatchett

Yep.

Shannon Hatchett

Three year old.

Shannon Hatchett

Yes.

Pat McCalla

we're sitting in the studio and we just celebrated mother's Day last weekend. I don't know when this will drop. He'll probably drop in a couple of months, but we just came out of Mother's Day. That's a that's thing that I think any mother today is half honor to to wrestle with trying to balance this.

Pat McCalla

You're a

Shannon Hatchett

coach and.

Shannon Hatchett

Working.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. How do you how do you deal with that. How

Shannon Hatchett

Again, it does. It comes down to a lot of choices. And that's even with that question you asked before. That's another thing that sometimes, you know, that self-doubt can creep in because it's like, okay, am I doing enough as a mother? I have to do this with my job. So, like you say, so just a lot of choices.

Shannon Hatchett

I have to decide when I'm going to put my family first and not necessarily want to put my job first. But when I'm going to, how I'm going to prioritize, prioritize, those different things. So for me, it does. It takes a lot of self-discipline. it takes a lot of planning. on my part in structure. that's the only way I'm able to be able to function.

Shannon Hatchett

But also, like I said before, it takes me giving myself some grace just knowing that, okay, I'm not going to always get things right. because I can be hard on myself. sometimes when it comes to. But I'm not good. I'm like, I'm going to be a perfect mother. I don't think anybody's perfect.

Shannon Hatchett

I guess just with juggling being a mother, working and being a coach, I just try to find some time for myself every now and again, but know that especially at this stage, I think right now the biggest thing we are struggling with is finding a little bit of structure with me traveling a lot right now

Shannon Hatchett

and then being a minister or a pastor, but at a new in a new church still kind of not even a year yet, learning his way around that. So just finding that structure to make sure we have time and that we're stewarding our arch elbows very well, in this season and for what they're called to do.

Shannon Hatchett

So I guess that's some of the things that are on our hearts right now as far as when it goes.

Shannon Hatchett

So just

Brent Hatchett

Shannon Hatchett

I would, you.

Shannon Hatchett

Know, we meet

Brent Hatchett

every month. Usually it's the end of the month, the last Sunday of the month, and it's, I don't know, maybe 30 minutes, 30, 35 minutes.

Brent Hatchett

it's not that long, but it's.

Brent Hatchett

You

Pat McCalla

can't have a long meeting with a three year

Brent Hatchett

Old.

Shannon Hatchett

I know. Yeah, she's.

Shannon Hatchett

Hasn't really participated.

Shannon Hatchett

But it's

Pat McCalla

then you.

Pat McCalla

Oh, man, I love that. So your kids are doing that

Shannon Hatchett

too.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

has very good constructive criticism.

Shannon Hatchett

He does.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah, yeah, yeah. but it's

Shannon Hatchett

now.

Shannon Hatchett

He's he's great at complimenting. He's. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

Making it

Shannon Hatchett

here's your great.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. Correct. So he'll be like

Brent Hatchett

that. That is the one thing I want to say. You're just you're really, really great, dad. They're really great, dad. And I'll wait to give you that constructive

Shannon Hatchett

for later. Right. So tell me that. And it was

Brent Hatchett

criticism?

Brent Hatchett

All right. So you're really, really great, dad, and this is a real one. He said, but here's what I want you to do. I know that you're always with me, but would you be a little bit more present,

Brent Hatchett

like when you like when my nine year old, he was like, when I play the game, would you play the game with me and not just watch me play the game?

Shannon Hatchett

Whoa, whoa.

Brent Hatchett

you know about that, though, man. I love our audience. Takes

Brent Hatchett

Congratulations on the

Shannon Hatchett

grandkids now.

Brent Hatchett

I'm present

Brent Hatchett

not.

Brent Hatchett

He's in one. And he said it like that.

Brent Hatchett

I want you to be more present.

Brent Hatchett

Yes. Oh, oh, it's wild

Shannon Hatchett

as well. But a lot of it just

Pat McCalla

there like.

Pat McCalla

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Yeah I think yeah.

Pat McCalla

Part

Pat McCalla

Yeah that

Shannon Hatchett

Good.

Brent Hatchett

follow this routine.

Brent Hatchett

So yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

He's been doing better.

Brent Hatchett

These we know better?

Pat McCalla

that's a great idea. You know I hope I hope maybe some of our audiences have kids at home. Might be something they want to implement, like have a family meeting and then, you know, open it up to have everybody share something that, that, an encouragement to everybody, but constructive criticism as well.

Pat McCalla

And then, man, how why do you can start that.

Pat McCalla

Like where'd that come from.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

So

Shannon Hatchett

I don't know it wasn't this end was this. It was this year. But we want to I know last year I think it wasn't intentional. Last year I was. So we started off with having words of the year. Our like what we felt I guess God or the Holy Spirit was telling us the last year. It was intentional faith.

Shannon Hatchett

It was intentional. So within that, I and I think we both felt by felt like we need to be more intentional about, I guess, just being a family and one just what God meant to our family. So within that, we started the family meetings. one also to make sure we had a scripture of the month which that's still.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah, we still working on that. But like, I guess just to really make sure we're living out the word and not just, you know, going about our day because for me and I, this kind of goes off. But I did I grew up in a church, but I didn't necessarily have a relationship with Christ until it was later on.

Shannon Hatchett

That's because it was just a routine. Okay, let's go to church. Okay. You better listen. You better do follow the Ten Commandments. Do this and

Shannon Hatchett

I know I didn't want that for our kids. So for me it's like, okay, yes, we're going to church, but you have to have a relationship. Like you need to know why you're doing these things and not in a forceful way, like, hey, you better not soon, like so letting them just kind of figure it out.

Shannon Hatchett

So I feel like with us having those meetings and being able to just to talk about, hey, I messed up, like sometimes I would to be like, hey, talk about how you feel. I'm messed up in this area and I'm sorry, but this is how I know I need to change you. This is how God, addressed it to me and let him in it, too.

Shannon Hatchett

But letting him actually see that that we're human. And it's not like this. Just picture perfect, like, follow God, and you're never going to mess up and give yourself.

Shannon Hatchett

And

Brent Hatchett

And to just add to it is really two parts. There's one part where it's family care, but then there's another part where it's discipleship.

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah. So

Brent Hatchett

especially for our kids, right. It's training. So, we say it all the time, we don't just want to raise our kids. We want to disciple our kids.

Pat McCalla

know, if I had to put a theme on what we've talked about, like, kind of wrapping it up now, I think what's come, come around from even talking about you. How do you balance your life as a mother and what things you brought up that I want to point out is, is you were saying, you know, the family's most important.

Pat McCalla

But then there's times where you go and that doesn't mean because that's, that's sometimes that's just thrown around like, okay, put your family first.

Shannon Hatchett

Okay? What about when you can't.

Shannon Hatchett

Hear.

Shannon Hatchett

Like, you have a job, you can't, like

Shannon Hatchett

track.

Shannon Hatchett

Right.

Shannon Hatchett

then. But yeah,

Shannon Hatchett

So you brought up again

Shannon Hatchett

having grace.

Shannon Hatchett

And I think also for me is like, I feel like you may not be able to be somewhere, but you can make sure is covered in that area. So making sure either brick has it or we have somebody helping us out, like, I'm not going to be in town, but okay, maybe call my mother, our mother in law.

Shannon Hatchett

So just thinking through like, okay, I know I have this coming up. What can I do? And that's the planning part of me. And that's also the part that I struggle with, too, knowing that, I'm not gonna always be able to plan and make sure everything. So, like I say, giving myself some grace, like it was going to be okay.

Pat McCalla

Because and again, I think this would kind of this is the theme of what we've been talking about today is, is the truth that we're not going to arrive as an athlete. They're never going to arrive

Shannon Hatchett

As

Shannon Hatchett

But having

Pat McCalla

the grace then to go like it's okay. So once somebody told me this once years ago and it really helped me

Pat McCalla

because I kept thinking like I was going to, I was going to wake up one day and I was going to arrive and he said, I don't know if you had these when you were younger because I'm like two decades ahead of you guys, a decade and a half ahead of you guys.

Pat McCalla

Remember those? The we called them teeter totter.

Brent Hatchett

Oh yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

and what do they call it?

Brent Hatchett

Seesaw.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

right.

Shannon Hatchett

And you'd walk over and.

Shannon Hatchett

You go down that way, you walk back.

Pat McCalla

that's a little more how life is.

Pat McCalla

And the journey with Jesus is, and the journey with us as a mother or a father or a or a person or a spouse is oh, oh, oh, I'm over here to fight, I need to, then you move back over and having the grace to do that.

Pat McCalla

And that's kind of the theme I've heard, whether you're talking about coaching athletes as a mom is having that, that you're not going to arrive

Shannon Hatchett

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

and it's okay.

Pat McCalla

yeah.

Pat McCalla

Anything you want to add to that,

Brent Hatchett

man?

Brent Hatchett

Let me just win some brownie points. Let me just say that you're amazing.

Shannon Hatchett

Oh, gosh.

Shannon Hatchett

I

Brent Hatchett

love you so much. Thank you for letting me have the opportunity to be on your pod today. I have can I get your.

Shannon Hatchett

Oh my gosh, stop it. He's too much.

Shannon Hatchett

I get to

Brent Hatchett

address. I got a pen here and everything.

Pat McCalla

do appreciate you being on here. Shannon. Thank you for first. And then my co-host,

Brent Hatchett

kind of said.

Shannon Hatchett

Thank you for.

Shannon Hatchett

Having you

Brent Hatchett

can help.

Brent Hatchett

Yeah,

Brent Hatchett

about it

Pat McCalla

those are all important things.

Pat McCalla

All right. My favorite part of the podcast,

Shannon Hatchett

Okay. I'm ready.

Shannon Hatchett

You got to you got to go.

Shannon Hatchett

competitive all. Let me see if I can get three

Shannon Hatchett

Okay. All right. Ready? I'm ready. All right. I have a sweet tooth. I double majored in marketing and sports management. I am one of four children.

Pat McCalla

I you got a sweet tooth.

Shannon Hatchett

That's. I think I'm going to say that because

Shannon Hatchett

really, really disappointed. They're the ones who say, like, I have a sweet tooth. Like I said, negative. Yeah, but it's not. It's just a reality

Shannon Hatchett

that was.

Shannon Hatchett

Mine is really bad. But yes.

Shannon Hatchett

Really bad. Yeah, really bad breath

Brent Hatchett

It is. Yeah. It is.

Shannon Hatchett

Oh yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

If I had to choose like one.

Shannon Hatchett

You're going to go get what.

Shannon Hatchett

Some cookies and cookies. Yeah. Some. Yeah. Soft cookies. yeah. Oh my gosh.

Shannon Hatchett

We crumble crumbled.

Shannon Hatchett

Crunchy on the outside. Yeah. Chewy

Pat McCalla

on the inside. Okay. so now we have your one of four.

Shannon Hatchett

Or you double major.

Pat McCalla

I'm going to say you double major. That's

Shannon Hatchett

I did double major but not in sports marketing. Oh it's management. Yeah.

Shannon Hatchett

Okay.

Shannon Hatchett

You pulled on it though. Yes.

Shannon Hatchett

So what did you double major.

Shannon Hatchett

marketing and finance

Pat McCalla

Okay. Wow. High.

Shannon Hatchett

You ended up the coach.

Shannon Hatchett

Yep.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Well, Shannon, thank you again for being on here. Brant. Good that you're. This is the

Brent Hatchett

second, second time. Let's go in the hot seat now. Yes, yes. Love it. Love having you guys.

Shannon Hatchett

Thank you. Yeah.

Host

incredible episode that was with the hatchets. So glad we could have them on. If you liked this episode, be sure to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. And if you're tuning in on YouTube, leave a comment below on one of your biggest takeaways. We'll see you next time on no gray areas.