Does EU Regulation Work Against Shein & Temu? We Agree to Disagree — Live from DMEXCO #LTM165

A year ago, many retailers were calling on the state to rein in Temu and Shein. Valerie and Ingrid were sceptical at the time. Now the first EU rules are in force, and the question is back on the table: Is regulation actually working after all? In their first-ever live episode, recorded right in the middle of DMEXCO, the two assess the first signals – and reach different verdicts.

What it's about:

• What changes with the flat customs duty of €3 per product category and the handling fee from November – and what the planned European Product Act could mean for marketplaces
• First effects: fewer parcels in Hungary and France, Shein's slowing growth and the expansion of its marketplace business
• Why small and mid-sized brands, of all players, could end up among the losers of regulation
• Why TikTok Shop is being celebrated while calls for stricter rules on Temu and Shein are growing louder

For everyone in the European marketplace business who needs to assess what the new EU rules mean in concrete terms for competition, margins and expansion.

Foreign let's Talk Marketplace, the Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Vana Riedichte.

Hello and welcome to let's Talk Marketplace.

And today, for the very first time, welcome not just to everyone listening outside, but also to people listening here in live with us, because we are live at DMEX Company in the conference halls with our very first live podcast.

I'm a little bit excited actually, because the whole setup is different than usual.

Looks very professional.

Great.

Much better microphone than usually you might hear that.

So, yeah, let's see how that works out.

So, Valerie, what do you think about the setup?

Yeah, well, first of all, also welcome from my side, and I really have to say it feels very different because.

Because actually we are fully dressed up, first of all.

We're not sitting at home lonely, we're seeing each other.

It also has been a long time that we both were in the same room while we recorded the podcast.

And then now the first time on a conference.

So, yeah, very special occasion today.

And yeah, you also told me that you got a, I don't know, light and like a brain light tonight where you said, like, ah, you know, we were like, close to like, what do we talk about today?

And then you were like, okay, I couldn't sleep.

But I had a great idea.

Yeah.

Because I actually planned.

Because what we often do on let's Talk Marketplaces, we talk about the most important marketplace news of the last weeks and just debate it and have our thoughts about it.

And I looked at the news and was like, kind of, okay, you know what?

The real interesting question that has been popping up in my mind over the last weeks again and again is actually, does regulation work after all?

Because we have been seeing a lot of EU regulation getting into place in July, you might remember now we are already getting into new regulations starting up from the 1st of November.

There's been new things coming up from France just now, this week actually.

And again and again I have been asking myself, okay, does it really work?

I mean, because you might remember we have been talking about this when last year when we started talking first about TEMU and she.

And we had a lot of conversations with merchants and retailers talking about the state has to do something about those guys.

And our impression was, yeah, well, it might, that will not work.

But now the regulation is in place and I was wondering maybe it does work after all.

So I thought we could talk about that.

Yeah, that's actually quite interesting.

And there's a lot of things to talk about, I would say.

But I would say first of all, let's just quickly introduce us because I think many of our listeners maybe still don't know us.

And that's also we also did a conference pre conference event yesterday and we.

I got already the questions from our guests like so how is your business models?

Like how do you work actually, who are you?

What do you do?

So okay, what we do?

Well, we are more like a B2B media company I would say and we are thought leaders and influencers in the European B2C marketplace business.

Yeah, that sums it up, I guess.

Yeah.

And we have our.

You are our audience which we inform with our newsletter, podcast of course, on LinkedIn, on our website with webinars and we also connect you with great events, live events like we did yesterday.

So yeah, and you might know us from let's Talk Marketplace, our podcast, or from our Marketplace quadrants, which are great infographics that tell you more about which marketplaces might be the right ones for you and your product.

So if you've seen Those around on LinkedIn, that's us.

Yeah, yeah.

Well our business model actually is like we work with marketplaces and marketplace service partners together to increase the brand awareness.

So if you're a marketplace, for example, we work with allegro bool e eBay, Kaufland and yeah, if you hear news about them, actually yeah, that's why they talk with us and why we work with them for half a year, year longer and yeah, that's our job to inform you about what they want to share.

And who are you personally?

Yeah,.

And who are you as personally?

I am for 15 years in the fashion and e commerce industry.

But mainly I love to connect people.

So my superpower is networking and therefore I know a lot of like people and that's what I do.

I talk with people I see who can support whom.

And within our business I'm doing sales and the events.

Yeah, yeah.

And without you we wouldn't have any written content.

That's true because I'm Ingrid, I'm the journalist and content part of our company.

My superpower I guess is curiosity.

Always looking for news items, for new trends, for new things that are happening and maybe forming an opinion about that and also helping you form an opinion about it.

And I guess what I normally do is take it down a notch.

That's what I do best I thing because I don't like big great consultancy talk, people talking about absolute truth.

This is something that I don't like because I think things in movement all the time and it always takes.

It is always good to know a bit more if you want to have a good opinion on things.

Which brings me back to the topic that I wanted to discuss with you today, which is, does regulation work after all?

So yeah.

Should we dive into it and you can disagree with me?

Maybe, or maybe not.

I really need to think about it still.

I'm not completely sure what I will ask answer.

That's the best actually.

You should never go in a debate with a fixed opinion.

Yeah, that's true.

So I would say give me all the details.

That's what we do.

Give us all the details and then.

Okay, I will find my questions.

Right.

I will just sum up what has happened.

Okay.

Because please.

It has actually been a lot.

It's always interesting if you look back at news because things are happening so fast in our business.

Every day a new news is coming.

Up and then sometimes there comes new news or new regulations, but then sometimes it's just regulation ideas and they're not fixed yet.

And then you're completely confused what's really happening, what's just in discussion and what's really fixed already.

And it's always good to take a step back and just revisit what you have read before.

So that's what I. I will do.

So I think the first thing that I guess all of you have seen everywhere, all over the news, that was July 1, that was the big date.

And that was when the new regulation came into place that reduced or took away the 150 duty exemption.

So until that point, parcels that had a value of less than €150 that would be free of duty.

So that now is gone and now we have a three euro flat duty for every item type.

That's very important not for the package itself, but for every item type.

So if you have a package full of black socks from, I don't know, wool, then that is €3 for this parcel on duty.

If you have half of the parcel is wool socks, on the other half of the parcel is, I don't know, wool shirts, then it's six euros.

So that's the idea here behind that.

So that came into place that was actually pushed quite hard by France who has been after.

Yeah, after regulating especially she in but also TIMU for the last month and has been pushing the YIWU commission to move fast, faster.

Yeah.

And they did.

So this is now in place so.

This is like really like this parcel flawed, right?

This is.

Was a bit like decreased.

Well, yes, well it's, it's a bit soon to tell because the idea here was we have a bit of September.

Yeah, yeah, it's now September so it is a bit too soon to tell.

But I, I have seen the first.

Yeah, the first results of that.

For example, Hungary just said that they have been seeing much reduced packages that came into the country.

The same was reported from France and from some other countries in Europe as well.

So it seems to have an effect and we especially see that in countries like Hungary where TEMU for example is the biggest E commerce player.

So that's interesting.

It seems to be working.

So that was one of the things that happened.

And then really.

So something else that has happened last week is we had a leak on the European Product act that is supposed to be in place from November and there we will see even more push towards a digital product passport towards more responsibility and it will force.

That was the league says marketplaces to take over responsibility for the products that are being sold on the platform.

Big and crazy.

It's big and crazy.

The question here is how will you really push for it in reality, who's going to control all of it and.

How does it really work?

Right.

Yeah, but still.

But this is something that has been pushed forward for months and years, actually.

Years and years and years.

I think I have been doing reports on that and articles on that two, three years ago and it seems.

And now it's coming into place.

But this is also something which is planned.

Right.

And not yet fixed.

That's not yet.

That's what I said before.

It's like, okay, there's like things planned but yeah, yeah.

How does it, how will it take effect and yeah, who will be responsible really for it and like to enroll it and also to control it afterwards.

Right.

Why that's happening.

Yeah, yeah, let's go into that.

How we put it into, you know, action a little bit later maybe.

But okay, this is planned for November which has been pushed forward.

Yeah, so that is coming.

Also planned is the end of the flat rate for customs data hubs.

So lots of co regulations still coming.

I would keep those out of the discussion because we want to debate about is are we already seeing effects but Europe is doing things, let's put it like that.

And as I said, we have been seeing first effects in France and in Hungary.

And yeah, the question here now is, okay, how could that really work out for merchants and sellers and will that really even the playing field?

And I know that we have been talking about that maybe a year ago and from that time your opinion was actually, no, it won't.

Because the Ti Munshi and whatever Aliexpress, they will just find a way around that and there's good arguments for that.

But you could also make a case for.

Yes, it's working.

So have you formed an opinion yet?

So, well, on the 3 Euro per item thing, I would guess that or per item category, sorry, item type.

I would say that also the consumers will think more about what they order maybe and how huge they order is.

So.

And how often they order.

Maybe they place now more a one order which is bigger than €100.

Like to just.

Yeah, to go outside of the €3 per category thing.

But to be honest, €150 on Temu.

Is a big parcel.

To be a big parcel.

I guess so that's what I think.

So it's not like, oh, we order three times a week now, let's just order one time in two weeks.

And so to be much more clear about what you want to order.

So therefore you already have less parcels.

But the question is, do you really have less turnover?

But on the other side, I wouldn't.

I guess that you're not dropping so fast fasts like, oh, I do here, €5 here, €10 here, €20 order.

Because yeah, I think if you pay €3 additional per item type, that's really a lot.

Especially if you think on the average sales price on temu, which is quite low.

Yeah.

So yeah, less parcels.

Yes.

But as you said, in Hungary, for example, it's still the biggest marketplace.

It is.

So they rely on that one.

And yeah, right.

I think the idea here is to level the playing field a bit more.

So just to make E Commerce as expensive for Timo and Jian as it is for everyone else.

That's sort of the idea here.

And it seems that that might be working in a way.

Way because for example, Shein is now pushing much more for in EU fulfillment in EU logistics, which means they have to build up all that infrastructure which costs a nice penny.

They are.

Or TEMU is now going much more for local merchants that should be selling on their platform, which is not working as well as they wanted to because European merchants are not reacting that well to that.

But that's what they are trying.

So they are trying to adjust their strategies and if they do, that could actually lead to leveling the playing field, making it more expensive for them and therefore giving European sellers more of a chance.

It will not lead to TEMU not being the biggest merchant in all of CE region, for example, from one night to the.

The other, because they have been building up that.

But it might be easier to beat them, hopefully.

But on the other side, if you think about who will get those €3 per item, it makes it also a bit different in terms of like the whole competition on the market.

Right, but because the three euro goes to the eu, Right.

Not to a marketplace, not to logistics.

Yeah, yeah.

So the EU gets a lot of money from this, but not the E commerce ecosystem, which is still covering everything.

Right?

Yes.

But you have to see that, you know, that kind of regulation demands people pushing that regulation through and the EU customs organization is badly understuffed to really take up that challenge.

So they would really need to increase the whole customs area, need to have much more duty officers to follow up on this regulation.

But is this really doable at the moment?

It's not.

Yeah, that's the other side.

Right.

So if you talk about also the topic of the European Product act, that marketplaces have to take the obligations as an authorized representative and.

Yeah.

Being responsible about all the imports.

Yeah.

So.

And then there is also this question, like, are they really able to keep track of this?

Yeah.

How.

I mean, we know how fast it is, how, how digital, how.

How the data needs to run.

And then we see the eu, which is really.

Yeah, that's definitely a problem.

Really big cruise ship, which is really.

Slow and not a speedboat at all, which we would need and which I like.

How are the tides are acting?

Yes, absolutely.

And so I think one of the dangers.

Absolutely.

Is that the package will just be waved through customs, you know.

Yeah, nothing to tell.

That's fine.

Just move on.

Nothing to see here because we don't have the manpower.

Well, let's see.

I think the other aspect that we might touch upon because we also have a lot of listeners from the uk, for example, or from Turkey or from other countries that are in the European space, but.

Or Switzerland, but not part of the eu because they will suffer, of course, from the same restrictions if they want to import into the eu as Timu and Sheehan is doing.

So.

Yeah.

Not so good news for the UK sellers, for example.

Something else to.

Yeah, that's the other.

Other side.

So that so many small businesses are affected as well.

So many small businesses who want to go international.

But now There are so many new regulations and it's also hard to afford this to really expand.

But they also have like this.

I know another topic.

But we have like this recycling guidelines since August, July.

So I don't know.

But if I would be owner of an online shop and or like of a brand and want to expand, I would be totally overwhelmed by all the different, different regulations and stuff which is coming up and up and up and which is decreasing my margin day by day because it's so difficult to keep up, to keep track.

And then you need a new service and a new service provider to help you that because you're not able to solve everything by yourself.

And this is also what I hear from small brands.

Like, yeah, we were already in the Netherlands with a small amount, but now we stopped it because it's not profitable.

Yeah, yeah, it absolutely favors bigger companies.

Yes.

Like the bigger gets bigger and the smaller stop.

Yeah, that's true.

Or they have to go to.

Stay in their country.

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Still, maybe one, one point in case of.

Yes, regulations do help.

That might be she in.

Let's look at that.

Because I, the fashion lady here in this room, Shein, is creeping up in every conversation that you are having, I guess with brands and retailers from that section.

And the interesting thing about Shein, because Shein has been this immense growth story in the fashion overtaking left and right and center, everyone pulling ahead of Zalando in many countries.

And then they wanted to have an IPO this year start at the stocks and they released a few interesting papers and these papers showed that, oh, the numbers are not as good as we thought.

Really interesting.

Growth has been shrinking, shrinking, shrinking.

Now it's just on level actually with other fashion players in the EU that are just doing just as well or even better in the case of Zalando, for example.

And she in named as one of the reasons for this stop in growth or this difficulties.

They had the EU regulations, which I find interesting.

I heard different people saying, yeah, that might just be a ruse.

Actually the main problem is not the EU regulations, but it's competition from for example, Timu, who are also pushing much into fashion and addressing the same low price area.

But I still find that interesting.

Do you think that EU regulations could really do anything to Shein?

I think that it has an influence, obviously and it makes it more difficult to really get the, like sell all the cheap clothes.

But I mean they are still one of the biggest marketplaces in several countries.

So yeah, they have their relevance.

They have their Status already.

And yeah, it's just depending on how much more does it cost for the consumer to buy at those marketplaces.

Because if I want to buy a dress for 5 Euro, I need to pay another 3 Euro.

That is like, like more than half of the price for customs.

Yeah, that's what I think will have an influence.

I think it might change the business model of chain as well.

We have seen that in the numbers as well.

Because if you look really deep into those IPO numbers, you can see in the service revenue, which is the overall category for everything that she earns with third party sellers as well.

And so I looked into that and I saw that this service revenue has been growing quite immensely.

And if you estimate from that sort of a marketplace GMV, you arrive at 20 to 30 billion US dollars actually.

So that would make up about 14% of the GMV of Shein is already in marketplaces and has been growing strongly last year.

So this is something I guess that they are doing also to push inside the EU to get sellers on board that could use their marketplace and have original stocks inside the eu.

So pushing away all this regulation problem.

But from your talks to brands and retailers from the fashion industry, do you think anyone is considering Shein as a marketplace?

I would say the big brands, they are like really rely on their brand awareness.

They are not interested, but everyone is keeping an eye on it to see what they are doing, how they are growing.

And I mean, 15 years ago when I started at Amazon, there was also like, oh, there's Amazon.

Can you please leave our floor at the conference at the trade fair and I was like, go away.

But Amazon is quite reliable.

And now imagine like now marketplace business is like 60% already Amazon.

So yeah, you have always to start somewhere.

So I would say never say never.

If they take the turnaround and if they do it well, yeah, let's see.

Because the air on the marketplace, especially in fashion, gets smaller and lighter and lighter.

Because I mean, about you and Zalando connected now, because Zalando bought about you then what else do you have in Europe?

Right, across Europe overall.

Yeah, across Europe.

That's the point.

Yeah, that's it, yeah.

I mean we have like some local players in every country, smaller or bigger.

And Boninger, for example, is also growing on a more European scale now.

But of course that's also in Germany and we have.

Yeah, of course Bull is also selling clothes.

Right.

But mainly fashion players, there's not so much more.

And if you are a brand which is not well established yet, then that could be a good start for you.

To be very honest, I actually think that these kind of absolute answers that we often hear in conferences like this as well.

I just heard a few of those on stage and was like, come on, you know, that's the way.

That's the truth for today.

And you have to follow this path.

We could be a bit more careful with those because as you said, things, if you asked people in the fashion industry 20 years ago about Amazon, you would hear the same things that you hear today about Shein.

So keep an open mind.

Yeah.

And now Zalando is one of the biggest customers at all for so many brands.

Yeah, that's absolutely true.

Yeah.

Okay.

But then we have like one other Chinese platform, TikTok Shop.

Yeah.

And those are sort of the nice, the nice guys.

Guys in a way.

Yeah.

This is strange really because they are also a big Chinese player entering the EU market, searching for new areas, for new growth opportunities and still everyone is really excited about them.

And they are also going around these regulations by just using, using the local players in the country.

So they're not bringing Chinese players with them normally, but getting in touch with the local brands, the local retailers and inviting them to use their platform.

So that might be a good move.

And also.

But why are they so sexy?

I can imagine because as a brand you have much more in your own hands to really be able to, to decide also how your brand is presented and you can also choose the influencers, for example, who are representing your brand and that's.

Yeah.

If you get them.

I just heard yesterday at our conference at our Connect event that people had trouble connecting to creators on TikTok shop now because all the big brands are catching up, the creators and the smaller brands don't get.

I can imagine in this because I mean this is another point.

In the UK for example, TikTok shop is there already for some years and they have ecosystem.

You need to really sell on Tik Tok Shop because it's not like, yeah, click and you have another marketplace online.

Yeah, okay, you have it online but you don't sell anything because you really need to go a lot like work to push tick tock.

And,.

And if you don't do this then yeah, you don't can serve the, you can serve the influencers, etc.

You need some agencies, you need maybe a live studio, etc.

And this is what, for example, we are in Germany.

Yeah, it's still working, still lacking a lot.

So the brands are thinking about like how do we do it where do we do it?

So does anyone has a pod, has a TikTok shop, studio or video studio in their headquarter?

I would say 95% not.

I mean, yesterday they told me that they are built a new logistic hub.

And then in the logistic hub there's also one student.

You.

Okay, interesting.

But these were also Chinese guys who are selling in Europe.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, they know how it's done.

They know how to do it.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Still, it's.

It's still just amazing to see how like one Chinese player is being welcomed, the other is being pushed out by regulations.

Yeah, yeah.

But still our time is running nearly up, my dear.

So maybe just the final round.

What is your final verdict for now?

Regulations good or bad?

Gray.

Let's focus on grey.

Okay.

It's depending on from which side you should think about or from which side to speak of.

I would say it's good in a way, way to get more fairness in the market.

On the other side, it makes it for other people or other parts who are not violators, much more difficult and expensive to really stay in the market.

I talk about small and media business, small and media, small brands.

So these are the losers in this game, I would say.

And overall, let's sit and wait.

What the EU does, how much more regulations are coming, because more regulations is always a bit annoying for everyone.

Yeah, it regulates the market.

But we, we are already so much slowed down, I would say in our market due to these regulations that sometimes this is also a blocker.

What's, what's your 50 cent on that unpopular opinion?

Good.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm actually, I know EU regulations have a very bad reputation and they are, as you say correctly, slowing things down and hindering business in many ways.

But I also think that they are sort of a USP because we have the opportunity to form equal playing field for everyone involved.

If we really push that through what we actually have on regulations.

And I think in general this is a good idea.

This is something that makes the European market unique and special and much fairer than it is in other areas and in other regions of the world.

And I think we should push for that actually more, but it has to come together with more digitalization with an easier access to everything that you need, so that also smaller companies can really, you know, just follow the regulations and then be ahead of the game.

At the moment, this is hindered by bureaucracy and just, you know, too much fax machines.

But yeah, so that's my five cents.

Yeah, that was a nice discussion and also was happy to see a few people joining in from the outside listening to us.

I hope what we said today was interesting to you as well.

And do let us know your thoughts on this matter.

On this debate.

What do you think about regulations?

Are you following Valerie's gray, gray assessment or my white assessment, or do you differ?

Maybe.

Let us know.

And yeah, do follow and subscribe to let's Talk Marketplace.

And we'll be happy to welcome you back very soon in the next episode.

Talk to you next time.

And bye bye, bye bye.

For now, You listen to let's Talk.

Marketplace, the Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Valerie Dichtel.