It's Buffy time and with me are the Buffy experts, the hosts of Fangs for the Memories, Kayte and Leslie.

Fangs for the Memories - Kayte and Leslie

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Track 2: This app has fun sounds.

Track 3: Yeah, it's very Lucasian.

Track 2: Yeah, bleep bloops.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: It does have lots of those. I don't know why it makes sounds,

Track 1: maybe just to let everyone know what's going on.

Track 2: Yeah, it's on.

Track 2: yeah i know i'm excited to talk about um a movie that i i don't think is very good but it's still fun.

Track 3: To talk about thank you thank goodness because i watched this today and i was

Track 3: like man i remember this movie being a lot better than it was but in my defense

Track 3: the last time i watched i was seven so okay.

Track 2: Yeah it's a great movie for a seven-year-old.

Track 3: Yeah Well, I don't know if that's true, but it's certainly a movie for a seven-year-old.

Track 1: I can think of worse choices, like when I watched The Exorcist or something

Track 1: when I was seven or eight years old.

Track 3: Oh, yeah. Or when my parents made me sit in the movie theater for Gettysburg.

Track 1: Oh, no.

Track 3: We got out of that movie theater at 11.15 at night. It was crazy.

Track 2: Wow. Not shelling out for a babysitter over at the...

Track 3: No, no.

Track 2: Rising home.

Track 3: I saw so many horse deaths in that movie.

Track 2: Aww.

Track 3: Real hard. But that's not what we're here to talk about.

Track 2: No.

Track 1: No. We have a little more fun, if not bad, but also, I think, fun.

Track 1: Some of the greatest, cheesiest early 90s one-liners that I can imagine.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Sit back in your seats, get something to eat, and watch this movie. I don't want to kiss.

Track 1: We'll let you hear the audio. Thank you.

Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan.

Track 1: Back again with another film discussion from the left. This week on the show,

Track 1: we are discussing the 1992 film Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which spawned a show

Track 1: by the same name five years later.

Track 1: And with me to discuss, I have the most buffiest of guests, host of Fangs for

Track 1: the Memories a Buffy Rewatch podcast Kate and Leslie thank you both for being here today.

Track 2: Hello we're the most Buffy I'm so excited I don't.

Track 1: Know if that's a verb or not I.

Track 2: Think it can be I mean Buffy is,

Track 2: Buffy words are in the lexicon I

Track 2: think of many people's I guess like colloquialism so yeah Buffy is I buff.

Track 3: You buff, he, she, they buff.

Track 2: We all buffing.

Track 1: And I did tell everyone that you do have a podcast. Do you want to expand upon

Track 1: that or we can just buff right past it? I'm going to keep with the Buffy.

Track 3: I like this. This is going to be like the Smurfs where they just smurf into everything. Yeah.

Track 3: So we're, we're a Buffy recap and rewatch podcast.

Track 3: We also do occasionally just horror movies in general.

Track 3: We just did an episode about the new Nosferatu Which we both had very strong

Track 3: and very differing opinions about So it was interesting to discuss and kind of compare notes,

Track 3: But yeah, we're towards the end of season 6 We're almost done And then one more

Track 3: season And then we'll both, I guess, die?

Track 3: I guess that's what happens Yeah, that's how it works When you're done with

Track 3: the show, you just perish.

Track 2: That's what we signed up for A watcher came to our houses and told us that we had to be with Buffy.

Track 3: Yeah, he made us sign a contract in blood, and I was like, well,

Track 3: okay, I got nothing else going on.

Track 1: Did you get someone as good as Donald Sutherland to do that?

Track 3: Oh, my God, no. We got, like, Ronald Sutherland.

Track 2: Oh!

Track 1: I actually, we were, Kate and I briefly were talking about Nosferatu earlier.

Track 1: I listened to that, because I also did an episode on Nosferatu,

Track 1: and I've had conversations where there's, like, widely differing opinions And

Track 1: that's the fun that's the fun of it, I guess.

Track 3: It's it's interesting. I mean, I like movies that do kind of elicit so many

Track 3: different differing viewpoints. You know, you can take a lot of different things from it.

Track 3: So that's the kind of movies that are like more important, I think,

Track 3: than everybody who just like agrees like it's OK.

Track 2: Yeah, totally. And I mean, we have wildly different opinions about Buffy.

Track 3: A lot of things.

Track 2: Too, which is great. No, I mean, that's like why it's interesting.

Track 2: If we were both just like, yeah, totally, it would be kind of a silly, very short show.

Track 3: Right.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Several people have actually told me that I should bring on like people with

Track 1: widely differing political views to discuss films from political.

Track 1: And I just thought, I don't really want to have like a podcast where it's like,

Track 1: you know, one of those. I don't know what those.

Track 1: I don't know what the word for that. It's like the Fox.

Track 2: Fox morning show.

Track 3: Pundit bullshit.

Track 1: I don't want that. I don't know.

Track 1: It doesn't have to agree that they like the movie, but at least relatively somewhat

Track 1: similar-ish perspective.

Track 2: Yeah. I mean, we both come at it, I think, from a left-ish, queer-ish sort of,

Track 2: definitely feminist side of things.

Track 2: You know...

Track 2: It's hard to talk about a show that was so important to so many fems of a certain

Track 2: age, I think, written by a guy that we now know sucks shit.

Track 1: I decided not to mention his name.

Track 2: Yeah. And like people, you know, at one point he was like, like some other people

Track 2: who have been recently called out for being absolutely disgusting.

Track 2: um you know he was seen as like a feminist and uh defender of women and you

Track 2: know so that's a we talk about that a lot because it's a tough one and like

Track 2: uh unfortunately his stain is on this movie too.

Track 1: Yeah he.

Track 3: Does he's he does have a little bit of stink on it i wrote down little joss

Track 3: stink one of my notes was um using a homeless as a as a noun like oh yeah that's

Track 3: a joss weed and flick all right yeah.

Track 1: Yeah well well yeah

Track 1: i mean it's as i didn't even mention that i wasn't

Track 1: intentional leaving it up so this film was written by joss whedon

Track 1: as people probably know it was not directed by

Track 1: him um it has the the main characters as far as actors are in this is christy

Track 1: swanson donald sutherland paul the late paul rubens rückenhower and luke perry

Track 1: of course you know his kind of height of his career or yeah it had to be right

Track 1: oh yeah 100 yeah yeah yeah yeah peak uh peak luke perry peak.

Track 3: Perry prime like uh tiger beat centerfold era absolutely yeah.

Track 1: Yeah this was um yeah i'm looking at his like the the tv shows and film like

Track 1: yeah this was man beverly hills uh started the year before two years before this so yeah oh.

Track 3: Yeah it's.

Track 2: So interesting because this movie is like so much more I feel like rooted in

Track 2: like late 80s stuff even though it's early 90s and like Buffy is so 90s you know.

Track 3: Yeah for being like yeah like late 90s and even into early 2000s yeah it is

Track 3: very like just very iconic for what we think of it as a which is interesting

Track 3: because like I feel that way and for a lot of different decades like some things

Track 3: that I think about in like the early 70s feel very 60s to me.

Track 2: Yeah. I mean, I think like, you know, fashion, people don't change their entire look like immediately.

Track 3: Once the clock rolls over.

Track 2: Right. Like this was filmed...

Track 1: Probably 91.

Track 2: Yeah. So, like, you're still going to have a lot of 80s stuff.

Track 2: And, like, Buffy in this movie is so much more Valley Girl than Buffy in the show.

Track 3: Mm-hmm.

Track 1: Yeah, that was one thing. One of the first things I wrote down when I was watching

Track 1: this was trying to think of.

Track 1: I mean, of course, there were super Valley-heavy kind of films earlier in the 80s.

Track 1: But this struck me as like the, I don't know, one of the other,

Track 1: like this and like Clueless, obviously Clueless was way better film and, you know,

Track 1: later on, but I can't think of anything else that was so Valley girl character at this time.

Track 1: Maybe I'm just not remembering. I don't know.

Track 2: I mean, I guess Beverly Hills, 90210, but yeah, that's a, I mean,

Track 2: Beverly Hills, not the Valley, but like similar, I think anyone who doesn't

Track 2: live in LA probably doesn't know the difference anyway.

Track 2: So it's just like, yeah, sure. Whatever. Rich, rich white people.

Track 3: Yeah. It's very time specific and it's also very geographical and tax bracket specific.

Track 2: Yeah, it's true.

Track 1: Yeah, it's like the way that they speak is equivalent to, you know,

Track 1: like the British monarchies version of British versus.

Track 3: I don't know. Right, yeah.

Track 1: The commoners.

Track 3: Exactly.

Track 1: And this is mostly, I mean, for the most part, like most of the characters with

Track 1: the exception of, you know, Luke Perry and his friend who is not long for this

Track 1: world or from the living or whatever you want to call it. Oh, David Arquette.

Track 3: David Arquette, yeah. Early, early David Arquette.

Track 2: Yeah. they're.

Track 1: All pretty wealthy I mean.

Track 2: Yeah Buffy's house.

Track 1: Is pretty is pretty nice.

Track 2: Yeah parents always going away her parents are so different from Joyce you know

Track 2: like that Joyce that her parents are like,

Track 2: um i watched society not that long

Track 2: ago for uh my other

Track 2: podcast tender subject and her parents are like the

Track 2: society parents like they're always out they

Track 2: don't pay any attention to her whatsoever at one

Track 2: point she comes home really late and they're and like

Track 2: the mom is like do you know what time it is and she's like um and she looks

Track 2: at her watch and she's like oh good my watch is broken like yeah she doesn't

Track 2: care about yeah like she doesn't care about buffy at all meanwhile joyce was

Track 2: like fiercely protective yeah very much of buffy yeah i.

Track 1: Did love that joke actually i.

Track 2: It's a good one it's.

Track 3: Good yeah it's a good.

Track 2: Setup payoff there are some good silly jokes in this movie for sure yeah.

Track 1: The one of the other first things i noticed when i was watching it is the how

Track 1: i mean again i'm not uh my high school didn't have really have they had cheerleaders

Track 1: but it wasn't like a big thing we weren't like a sport kind of thing but the

Track 1: cheerleaders like at the beginning their routine is like pretty crappy.

Track 2: Yes like.

Track 1: Really yeah.

Track 3: It's definitely no um bring it on.

Track 1: Yeah they're just kind of like waving their hands around a few times and like call it a day right.

Track 2: It made me laugh because of how bad like there's some parts of this movie that

Track 2: are really funny because they're so unpolished and that was one of them like

Track 2: the cheerleaders are just like like they're really hot and popular but they're

Track 2: like not very good at what they do uncoordinated.

Track 3: And wearing like uh weird shorts like they're not they're not cheerleader skirts

Track 3: they have like a panel in the middle so it just looks like weird baggy shorts.

Track 2: Yes just.

Track 3: Really really crazy.

Track 1: Yeah,

Track 1: I don't know. I don't know where they were putting their effort into the film.

Track 1: Maybe they were like, we're not going to put a lot of effort into this.

Track 1: But it had a lot of people in it.

Track 3: Hilary Swank who I love Ben Affleck for like

Track 3: one hot second Ben Affleck for like two seconds yeah

Track 3: um I love the like subtle like queer subtext with Hilary Swank because there's

Track 3: a moment in the beginning where like a guy is sitting next to her as like she's

Track 3: in the bleachers for the cheerleader scene oh yeah guys a guy sits next to her

Track 3: and she just like stares daggers at him and then she starts It's like dancing with the cheerleaders.

Track 3: Like she's like so into it. And I was like, huh, that just made it maybe go

Track 3: like, oh, I see. I see what's going on.

Track 3: Which if you like if you have that thought in your head watching the rest of

Track 3: the movie, it makes a lot more sense why she is so much angrier than her other

Track 3: friends when Buffy like ditches her.

Track 3: It's like, oh, she's in love with her. Like, of course, like she's heartbroken.

Track 3: That makes a lot of sense.

Track 1: She gets the yellow leather jacket.

Track 2: Oh, man. And that leather jacket.

Track 3: Oh, so good.

Track 2: That's a pretty cool jacket. Another yellow jacket, a la the substance.

Track 2: Just, we have to, we love a yellow jacket in movies.

Track 1: I mean, and then to top it all off, just the fact that Donald Sutherland is

Track 1: in this, I was just talking right before this with my partner.

Track 1: I was like, how did they convince him to be in this movie?

Track 2: I know.

Track 3: Yeah, I don't know.

Track 2: And then Rutger Howard was hilarious.

Track 3: Yeah. so crazy yeah paul rubens who's like coming off of you know peewee fame

Track 3: like just insane ricky lake oh.

Track 2: Yeah ricky lake.

Track 3: Is the waitress that's so right apparently seth.

Track 2: Green is also in it but they.

Track 3: Cut yeah he's in the heart he's in the background and then you probably wouldn't

Track 3: know this if you don't know like voice actors but the principal oh is steven root steven root Yeah,

Track 3: who was Bill Dothrieve in King of the Hill. And he does like a billion voice actor voices.

Track 2: Yeah, he's in news radio. He's been in a bunch of like Coen Brothers movies, I think.

Track 1: Yeah, I was going to say, he's been in like No Country for Old Men, maybe?

Track 2: Yeah, I think so. A few other ones. But yeah, he's like a real intense, oh, Office Space movie.

Track 3: Oh, yeah.

Track 2: He's such a character actor.

Track 3: He's so good.

Track 2: Yeah. How did everyone in the world get in this movie? It's so weird.

Track 1: I don't know. I mean, literally, Donald Sutherland was in JFK the year before

Track 1: this and was like, sure, I'll do this.

Track 2: And he and apparently he and Joss Whedon hated each other, which is very funny.

Track 2: Joss had a major problem with how, I guess, like, pretentious Donald Sutherland

Track 2: was, like, on the set. And it's like, Joss.

Track 3: I'm done. That and also Donald, I guess, did a lot of ad-libbing and Joss absolutely fucking hates that.

Track 3: Yeah, he doesn't like when people don't respect his words. Because,

Track 3: like, his words are very precious to him. They're like little angels,

Track 3: yeah, that he creates out of the ether or whatever. So the fact that that Donald

Track 3: was like disrespecting his craft.

Track 2: Right. But at this point, he had only done like episodes of Roseanne, which like no shade.

Track 3: I know.

Track 2: But like still, he wasn't Joss Whedon yet, you know?

Track 3: Right. Yeah.

Track 1: Well, he was acting like it, though, because apparently one of the first IMDB

Track 1: notes was that he got so mad with how it was being like rewritten that he left

Track 1: production and then never came back.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: In the middle of it.

Track 1: What a dick.

Track 2: I can't believe he got a job after that. I know.

Track 3: It's so crazy. The writing was already on the wall at this point.

Track 3: I just don't, I don't know. I mean, we all were fooled. And I don't know how we all were fooled.

Track 2: We should have listened to Donald Sutherland when we could.

Track 1: That's like a wisdom for anyone to just listen to Donald Sutherland.

Track 3: That's true.

Track 2: That guy was cool as shit.

Track 1: Yeah, like Invasion of Body Snatchers. No one listened to him.

Track 1: and then look what happened.

Track 2: That's right.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Didn't he also go to like...

Track 2: pro-palestine marches and stuff he was pretty cool he.

Track 1: Did i think i think you're right.

Track 2: Yeah yeah we should make t-shirts well.

Track 1: And i was i was just looking at my nose and i also had wrote down what a homeless

Track 1: as like the just ridiculous things to say and then the i think actually the

Track 1: funniest bit in like especially in the beginning was when they're talking about

Track 1: the the like the dance they have to come up with like the theme for the dance and they had to come.

Track 2: Socially conscious.

Track 1: Thing and when one of the friends said like we should call it don't tread on

Track 1: me i literally just absolutely lost it.

Track 3: Yeah like um okay.

Track 2: Yeah and then buffy is like but you have to it's the earth,

Track 2: that's a pretty fucking good joke i

Track 2: love um the various threats

Track 2: to the environment or one of the

Track 2: big ones bugs yeah bugs suck that was a really good that would have been a great

Track 2: um theme for the prom bugs bugs suck um and then the other one was like the

Track 2: ozone layer we should definitely get rid of that,

Track 2: oh man oh but

Track 2: yeah i really liked um it had a very specific

Track 2: look like um everyone's outfits

Track 2: had like a really fun aesthetic that

Track 2: like um i think by

Track 2: like the time buffy the show comes on people

Track 2: are doing more of that like dark uh

Track 2: like dark 90s like pleather yeah

Track 2: and like combat food kind of like yeah choker looking thing and then this movie

Track 2: is all like daisies and actually there's one of the scenes um what's her name

Track 2: i think hillary swank is wearing like a daisy print she was.

Track 1: I saw that in like the script it was like a screenshot of her wearing.

Track 2: That which which i have okay i have like

Track 2: a deep memory of somebody in 90210 is also wearing like a daisy print shirt

Track 2: in like the opening credits and it was like a betsy johnson shirt that was like

Track 2: really expensive and I remember thinking about it as a child and being like wow,

Track 2: I wish I could afford something that cool right so like,

Track 2: Yeah, it was so tight.

Track 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Track 2: Yeah, that was such a time period. And, like, the 80s were so much about,

Track 2: like, 50s throwback stuff, you know?

Track 2: And so it was, like, all bright and flowery, and everyone's looks were, like, coordinated.

Track 2: You know, like, people didn't have their own, like, people didn't have their

Track 2: own look yet, really, like, in this movie.

Track 2: Like, everybody kind of just, like, coordinated with each other. right.

Track 1: They all had denim jackets on when they're at the mall i think like when they're.

Track 2: Going to see the.

Track 1: Movie and they're like deciding which they're like the the also the joke about

Track 1: like which movie theater to go to like.

Track 2: That was weird oh yeah yeah i was like is this an la kid joke like they know about just.

Track 3: Weird like product placement like joss doesn't know how to do product placement yet.

Track 2: They were like should we go to the amc oh no i don't like the project like the

Track 2: projector there whatever it's like what are you talking about what are you guys talking about,

Track 2: did they see what movie they go very funny i don't think so no it would have

Track 2: been funny if they did yeah oh man what movie do you think what movie came out

Track 2: in 1992 that they would have gone to see let's.

Track 1: See would have been well i guess would have been 91?

Track 2: Oh, Bram Stoker's Dracula. Oh! That's right. That came out at the same time.

Track 3: You know what? It would have been Last of the Mohicans.

Track 2: You think so?

Track 3: Yeah, that's such like a teen girly, like Oh, Cool World.

Track 3: Damn, 92 was great for movies. Batman Returns, Army of Darkness.

Track 2: Why do I get... It's so weird.

Track 3: Newsies, directed by Kenny Ortega.

Track 2: I feel like my computer knows who I am because it's like Barton Fink is the

Track 2: first thing that came up.

Track 2: And Delicatessen. I'm like, what?

Track 2: You know they loved going to see Barton Fink. Oh, Silence of the Lambs came out in 1991, too.

Track 3: Yeah, that's a good one.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Well, they could have seen Donald Sutherland in JFK, and then he could have been in the movie.

Track 2: And then they wouldn't have thought he was homeless.

Track 1: There's no way that I could see them sitting through JFK. they'd be like what is this.

Track 2: Yeah no they would be like who's this guy did.

Track 1: He die or something yeah.

Track 2: Was he like a president yeah this is let's see oh you know what else i thought

Track 2: was really funny was like at the beginning again like i feel like i can't help

Track 2: but just like compare this to the tv show,

Track 2: there's like the whole thing about how like you know there's a watcher one dies

Track 2: and the next is chosen and then like that happens in the dark ages and then

Track 2: um the valley in 1992 is the light ages l-i-t-e.

Track 3: Yeah love that love that good goof well.

Track 1: That's a that's like just generally being

Track 1: that you're uh you know the tv show experts like

Track 1: what do you think is the i mean i know that joss whedon

Track 1: like has said that he didn't like the direction of this and he

Track 1: was you know all of those things he really just like went the

Track 1: opposite direction and by the mid 90s you

Track 1: had a lot more things on tv that you know i think that they're probably the

Track 1: vibe they're going for so you think it was like that show is more product of

Track 1: like the mid 90s when tv was changing or i don't know what do you think was

Track 1: this is like that late 80s kind of throw throwback.

Track 3: Yeah we still i feel like i

Track 3: don't know i don't really know what could have happened like culturally or like

Track 3: historically to kind of make this change because that's usually what happens

Track 3: you know something happens and then it reflects in our culture like the thing

Track 3: the kinds of things that we want to watch so i don't know what happened to make

Track 3: us want to see like kind of darker things but you can definitely see,

Track 3: like Joss like butting up against that uh

Track 3: with with his writing and then the changes that they make because I read online

Track 3: that like there's like some pretty buck wild stuff that he wanted to include

Track 3: that the producers were like um we want like people to go and enjoy this movie

Track 3: so we're not gonna put that in there like Donald Southern was was supposed to

Track 3: commit suicide oh yeah killed,

Track 3: And I was like, what context would that even make sense for him,

Track 3: his character, to do that?

Track 3: And then also, which is funny because they do reference it in the pilot episode of Buffy the TV show.

Track 3: She's supposed to burn down the whole gym with everybody inside,

Track 3: including all the vampires.

Track 3: And that's what sets her up to go to the new school.

Track 3: But they thought that would be a little too morbid, so they just rode off into

Track 3: the sunset on a motorcycle.

Track 3: a stolen motorcycle but yeah.

Track 2: I don't i don't.

Track 3: Know what could have happened that made that kind of switch into something more darker.

Track 2: I think there is like in the 90s you know you get like the x-files you get twin

Track 2: peaks yeah um first hbo shows like yeah it was just really like.

Track 3: The birth of prestige tv you know.

Track 2: Yeah and like i think that i don't know to me i feel like if you were kind of like an

Track 2: alt teenager the x-files buffy

Track 2: and like twin peaks all kind of like belonged in in the

Track 2: same world and like i know twin peaks obviously

Track 2: is a million times more uh superior

Track 2: but if you're a teenager let's

Track 2: say aesthetically those things kind of all like smush

Track 2: together um and there

Track 2: was like a lot of vampire stuff that happened in like

Track 2: the early 90s um and

Track 2: like maybe just the like kind of silliness of the

Track 2: 80s i feel like like i said before the 80s were like very 50s throwback conservatism

Track 2: the 90s were kind of like um not that they were less conservative but they were

Track 2: rebellious yeah like i don't think that they they didn't have like there wasn't like a ton of,

Track 2: political um drive in like a lot of those shows like you know the x-files is

Track 2: like now we look at it and we're like oh it's kind of conservative but right you know aesthetically,

Track 2: it was more like all weirdo stuff yeah.

Track 3: On the on the surface.

Track 2: Yeah yeah.

Track 1: I was thinking too about the like x-files and twin peaks those are the first ones that came to mind as.

Track 2: Yeah like.

Track 1: Darker vibe of things being less i just

Track 1: try to make it more serious as opposed to being more goofy i mean i think there's

Track 1: still you know obviously humor but it's not the same kind of uh in this where

Track 1: i think when they're at the movie theater one of my absolute most ridiculous

Track 1: lines was when one of the friends of buffy says take a chill lozenge,

Track 1: yeah and where did that come from does that was that actually something that

Track 1: people said or did joss whedon just like pull out i mean i've.

Track 3: Heard take a chill pill.

Track 1: Right that makes us heard.

Track 3: That and was like well i i want a buck tradition and so i'm gonna make her say

Track 3: lozenge like like a 15 year old knows what that word is like yeah.

Track 2: It is a very strange thing to say.

Track 3: Yeah yeah.

Track 1: I don't know yeah i could i could see that him just being like i want i don't

Track 1: want to say the thing that everyone else says i want to say something different.

Track 3: Right she's a valley girl but she's not that kind of valley girl.

Track 1: That was that was the upgraded that's that was the elite you know valley girl

Track 1: you know they have lozenges not pills yeah.

Track 3: Right valley girl 2.0 yeah.

Track 2: And then like the two guys you know they're supposed to be sort of like oh the

Track 2: working class burnouts you.

Track 3: Know burners yeah but.

Track 2: Like they're so like when you

Track 2: get them alone i have like this i wrote down a few things like after they leave

Track 2: i think this is after they leave the theater and they're talking about like

Track 2: how much they hate like all the stuck up rich bitches they're not even human

Track 2: and then like one of them is like would you bone them though oh yeah definitely.

Track 3: But then he's not even a question but.

Track 2: Then he says uh i think this is what david arquette says but another shot of

Track 2: this and i'll have sex with you and i was.

Track 3: Like okay that's that's pretty dark.

Track 2: And funny like that was that is a weird thing to say in like an 80s or early 90s like.

Track 3: Teen it is it's a weird thing

Track 3: to say in an 80s teen movie to have that kind of like

Track 3: you know a homoerotic like bro-y

Track 3: relationship but it's totally a thing that like teenage boys do like it felt

Track 3: very believable to me it's like yeah we goof off about being like gay with each

Track 3: other because we're like best bros or whatever so like the way that they talked

Track 3: to each other in that scene felt like like a genuine moment to me yeah.

Track 1: The funny thing is afterwards i think he says the uh he says back like and then you'll never call me.

Track 3: Yeah he'll be like and you'll never you'll never call me back like

Track 3: like they'd have a goofy which is funny because like

Track 3: in in joss's tv version

Track 3: a lot of like the queer uh like

Track 3: moments up until you get to you know willow coming out is very like gay panicky

Track 3: especially like with xander and like the the football bully or whatever so like

Track 3: i don't know where this like weird little like comfortable gay moment came from

Track 3: probably not from joss but who knows well.

Track 1: I know there was a bunch of like being you know rewrites after you know that's

Track 1: what i think what made him so angry they probably changed it to being a little bit less whatever.

Track 3: Jossy and.

Track 1: Made a little.

Track 3: More.

Track 1: I don't know, a little better perhaps and that snuck its way in there. Yeah, maybe.

Track 1: He heard that joke and just ran off.

Track 3: Yeah, probably.

Track 2: Yeah, he's like, what, you'd have sex with him? No!

Track 3: No!

Track 2: Yeah, because there's no, like, Joss-like quips, and it's like,

Track 2: is it because there were so many rewrites, or is it because he hadn't,

Track 2: like, mastered his quips yet? We'll never know.

Track 3: I feel like it's a little, I think it's a little bit of both,

Track 3: because you do see some peeking out, like, I'll try to find one,

Track 3: but, oh, no, it's Donald Sutherland. makes a joke and.

Track 2: Buffy's like.

Track 3: Oh you made a joke do you need to sit down like it hurts it hurts the first

Track 3: time when you but you'll get.

Track 2: You oh yeah that feels.

Track 3: Kind of jossy to me.

Track 2: Yeah he was developing his.

Track 1: Uh his uh his style his whedonisms.

Track 2: Yeah buffy would definitely say that to giles

Track 2: and there's so like the their relationship is very yeah early early buffy to

Track 2: giles like he definitely was like working on it but i'm sure like because he

Track 2: didn't get along with donald sutherland like he couldn't really develop that

Track 2: relationship very well right.

Track 3: Yeah he probably didn't want to write more for donald than he.

Track 2: Had yeah he didn't want to be around him probably all.

Track 1: His lines are actually better than whatever was probably written for him it's probably why.

Track 2: Probably yeah like the scene where.

Track 1: They're in oh sorry go ahead.

Track 2: Oh no no i was just gonna say i I thought it was also funny that Buffy,

Track 2: so like in this version of Buffy, all the Slayers have like a birthmark.

Track 2: And he's like, oh, let me see. Do you have this birthmark?

Track 2: And she's like, ew, I had an ugly like mole removed. It was disgusting.

Track 3: I love that. Yeah.

Track 2: So perfect.

Track 1: That entire scene where they're like where she's like confronts him for the

Track 1: first time and she's just kind of like not even that phase that you're just

Track 1: some old dude just kind of chatting with her in the gym. Like just everyone else around.

Track 1: Then he's also in the locker room, too, which is a little creepy.

Track 2: She does tell him that it's a naked place.

Track 3: Yeah, that's also a very, like, Buffy thing to say.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Yeah, you can definitely tell that this was a pre-9-11 movie.

Track 3: Because of the way that they just, like, don't give a shit if people are in

Track 3: the school or outside of the school or.

Track 2: You know.

Track 3: It's very, like, loosey-goosey, not locked down, you know?

Track 1: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you couldn't make this movie late. Well,

Track 1: I mean, for a variety of reasons, but.

Track 3: They tried. they tried josh said in 2018 he'd be up for a reboot and i was like.

Track 2: Absolutely the.

Track 3: Fuck not oh man not in a million years.

Track 2: They've talked about yeah like rebooting various things forever like you know

Track 2: the show or the movie yeah i think sarah michelle geller never do wants to reboot

Track 2: the show but yeah i don't know we'll see it seems like inevitable nowadays right everything yeah,

Track 2: Why would you think of something new to do if you could just do Buffy again?

Track 3: Again, yeah.

Track 1: And especially if the main person wants to come back like i think i saw this

Track 1: is unrelated but since you mentioned x-files like david duchovny still wants

Track 1: to do more x-files but jillian anderson's like no i'm done with that yeah.

Track 2: Because she's got a really kick-ass career.

Track 1: Yeah she's doing fantastic.

Track 3: And looks amazing yeah yeah.

Track 1: Why would she do any.

Track 2: Anything new although david duchovny great little turn and the reboot of the

Track 2: craft oh yeah that's right i remember he's.

Track 3: Still getting work too.

Track 2: He's fine yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Track 1: He uh he actually belonged to the same gym that i went to and would get personal

Track 1: training done like in the middle of the main like gym floor hilarious when he

Track 1: could easily just afford his own gym or whatever you know he.

Track 2: Just wanted everyone to look at him.

Track 1: A hundred percent Amazing.

Track 3: Just wanted everyone to see his, like, glistening peck.

Track 2: His sod.

Track 1: Yeah, and he would always have, like, a...

Track 3: His californication?

Track 1: ...sleeveless, you know, tank top on, you know, just doing his...

Track 2: Grunting. You don't have to cut this out. Oh, that's the best of a day.

Track 1: Well, and he, like, I don't live in the same neighborhood anymore,

Track 1: but he also would, like, be walking his dogs also in the park,

Track 1: and I would sometimes see him walking my dogs, and,

Track 1: like, I never actually talked to him more than just being like,

Track 1: hey, and then that albeit because our dogs like sniffing each other and then

Track 1: you just kind of but I always joke that like I you know David Duchovny could have been my friend.

Track 3: That's why i couldn't live in la because every time i

Track 3: saw a celebrity i would be like hi please please be my friend so i could tell

Track 3: other people that i know yeah like oh man it's uh what's his fucking name jack

Track 3: quaid please be my friend jack quaid like i couldn't do it oh man one.

Track 1: Of the One of the other, like maybe this is a Joss Whedon one,

Track 1: when Sutherland throws a knife, I think she calls him a sconehead.

Track 2: She does.

Track 1: And that was a pretty incredible quip or I don't know. It's not really a burn. No, that one was great.

Track 3: Yeah, that's a good one.

Track 2: She also, that's when she says her life goal was to graduate high school,

Track 2: go to Europe, marry Christians later and die.

Track 3: That's how you know it's a 90s movie, because Christian Slater was even a going concern.

Track 2: Would you marry him in Europe or would you go to Europe? Like,

Track 2: that's not where Christian Slater probably is.

Track 2: I guess those are two separate things.

Track 1: She would go there on like a teen, like one of those, you know,

Track 1: after college European tours and then come back.

Track 3: Yeah. go on a backpack self-discovery tour.

Track 2: Right across the swiss alps and then go back.

Track 3: And christian's just waiting right there.

Track 2: Oh and then she could die on the altar immediately she says i do.

Track 3: And she doesn't even get to say i do because she.

Track 2: Just immediately dies but it's i mean i guess like that leads into the whole

Track 2: conversation about like you know being the chosen one and like um the thing

Track 2: that the movie has that's similar to,

Track 2: the tv show is that like you know buffy was this kind of like fun vacuous like

Track 2: silly person who just like wanted to have a good time and then like suddenly

Track 2: has this like weight on her shoulders and like how does she deal with those two things right.

Track 3: Tries to balance.

Track 1: Yeah she when she's in the graveyard i think she says like i i don't i've you

Track 1: know i didn't don't want to have to be here like with you in a graveyard on

Track 1: a school night like she just wants to go.

Track 2: To cheerleading.

Track 1: Practice and go to that you know bar restaurant that they go to.

Track 2: Oh yeah like the bronze yeah the bronze yeah i guess the version of that but

Track 2: yeah like she's like her life is like ruined.

Track 1: Right like it's basically.

Track 2: Yeah well and she becomes like kind of a pariah because she's not like her friends

Track 2: anymore because she has this like other she has like knowledge that they don't have you know yeah.

Track 1: In the show it's been a while since i've watched it like do they.

Track 2: Do they.

Track 1: Before buffy starts because like you know as she's the show the show goes by

Track 1: is she meant to be like a really good student she was right or no.

Track 2: Yeah it's pretty smart but she's pretty smart but it's yeah it's.

Track 3: Also very like um plot convenient.

Track 2: Yeah like um she doesn't.

Track 3: Do well in school and so mom her mom is mad at her and so that that's a plot

Track 3: thing but then also she like nails her sats she gets like a perfect score or

Track 3: like close to a perfect score so it's like very inconsistent.

Track 2: Yeah they.

Track 1: Make her seem really they make her like seem like she doesn't care and is dumb

Track 1: but then she actually is seemingly you know smart so.

Track 2: Right i think it's kind of that like

Track 2: um she is uh assumed

Track 2: to be an idiot because she's like a blonde girl

Track 2: who likes clothes you know right and like

Track 2: she's playing against type and like in

Track 2: the in the show in the show you you kind of get more of an idea like because

Track 2: you know in the show the backstory is that she burned down her old high school

Track 2: and she's like kind of more of a badass like people think she's like more of

Track 2: a bad influence rather than like right,

Track 2: like a dumb dumb,

Track 2: Right.

Track 1: OK. But yeah, they're afraid of her there.

Track 2: Or just like intimidated by her

Track 2: also because she's from la so like she's from

Track 2: la and then moves to sunnydale which is like a suburb so

Track 2: people are like ooh badass she's like

Track 2: exotic chick from la yeah um who

Track 2: burned down the school uh but yeah like she is often like she might be like

Track 2: sleepy during the day because she like had to save the world the night before

Track 2: and her teachers don't know that you know so there's like that kind of like

Track 2: um tension i guess but it's not like,

Track 2: not that often is she seen as like a dumb dumb it's more like she's seen as

Track 2: like someone who's not applying herself yeah particularly in those.

Track 3: Those high school days like the first like three seasons.

Track 2: Yeah i guess you.

Track 1: Could argue that's the same in this right she's just kind of trying to fit in

Track 1: with her friends and just kind of seem like she says like i think she says she

Track 1: gets like a c on a test and they're like mad that they had copied off her and uh right.

Track 2: Oh right like.

Track 1: She could have been applying herself she just you know chooses not to perhaps they don't.

Track 2: Really it's not yeah like.

Track 3: It's not cool to be a brain right.

Track 2: Right yeah she strikes me as someone who's probably very smart and like just

Track 2: like eventually she needs that to be a vampire slayer but like she doesn't,

Track 2: um yeah like she wants to

Track 2: be cool before being smart yeah and like she gets to use like in the show too

Track 2: like Buffy is different because she has friends and like in the movie she's

Track 2: different because she yeah I guess she also has friends but like she's she uses like her,

Track 2: knowledge of like clothes and

Track 2: stuff like the you know the thing where she the

Track 2: hairspray like you know it's kind of the idea that like she wasn't trained from

Track 2: the beginning in like you know martial arts or some shit but she has like various

Track 2: little like silly kind of i don't know they're not street smarts but it's just

Track 2: yeah ingenuity yeah yeah.

Track 3: Exactly yeah specific to her You know, when Donald Sutherland is dying,

Track 3: he's basically saying, like, you know, don't do things by the book like I've been teaching you.

Track 3: Kind of come up with your own methods to, you know, kill the vampires and do

Track 3: what you need to do to save the day.

Track 3: So that's why she, yeah, she burns Rucker Hauer's head with a thing full of

Track 3: hairspray. Like, it's crazy.

Track 2: Which I thought was going to be how he, like, dies.

Track 2: And he just, like, sort of shakes it off. but I guess it stops him for enough time.

Track 3: Yeah, pauses him for...

Track 3: a decent amount.

Track 1: Well they i mean in this they also they allude to her like being like having

Track 1: been like a tumbling or i don't know from her you know they just show her just

Track 1: like doing like backflips and just oh yeah yeah yeah yeah doing all these things

Track 1: and just she has this natural talent somehow yeah.

Track 3: They said she well yeah she she has an innate slayer talent that donald sutherland

Track 3: helps her develop so that's that's part of it but then also i think they mentioned

Track 3: that she is not only just not only a cheerleader but their dance captain.

Track 1: Yeah so.

Track 3: That might have have something to do with it too i i don't know what kind of

Track 3: like dance captain-y stuff y'all had in or like flag core or whatever that y'all

Track 3: had in your high school but mine was definitely not up to anything you know

Track 3: anything that buffy could do.

Track 1: Well she clearly wasn't using those skills in her cheerleading routine because

Track 1: because they were just i mean maybe she didn't want to show off in front of

Track 1: all of her friends and they're just.

Track 2: When they're just doing the funky chicken.

Track 3: How funky is you know i

Track 3: i sing that to myself like occasionally in the shower or whatever and i've never

Track 3: remembered where i got it from but i guess i guess seven-year-old me like we're

Track 3: just like really like clung to that little fucking stupid how how loose is a goose.

Track 2: My goose is totally loose.

Track 1: I just actually remember so the Ben Affleck you mentioned Ben Affleck was in

Track 1: it but there's also another actor who was in it for like a second at the like

Track 1: right before you see Paul Rubens for the first time in sort of that like amusement park or like,

Track 1: around there's another actor who's in it there's some other actor who was also

Track 1: in Days and Confused and I know Ben Affleck was in that and i think there was

Track 1: one other person too i just oh yeah must have been intentional is that who it was who were.

Track 2: They in days and confused i love that movie it's okay if it's too hard.

Track 1: Don dawson.

Track 3: Hmm the the guy with like the the crow magnon shelf forehead oh.

Track 2: Yeah i think he was one of the like bullies right um.

Track 3: That was like chasing after the freshman yeah the basketball bully yeah.

Track 2: Um i could know that was after.

Track 1: This no sorry go ahead.

Track 2: What in the world was going on with their basketball coach who.

Track 3: Was i i thought that was so interesting and i i

Track 3: thought like oh this is definitely an early Joss

Track 3: thing because like instead of making

Track 3: the basketball coach like a you know a yelling

Track 3: screaming meathead jock you know

Track 3: former player who now like teaches these kids

Track 3: he's like a 90s business manifestation motivational

Track 3: speaker yes and I was like

Track 3: that's such a powerful choice and like so funny because that was also a big

Track 3: thing in the 90s was like you know align your chakras or whatever like all that

Track 3: witchy like turquoise jewelry crystal voodoo shit like yeah that was just so

Track 3: hysterical and like such a funny a funny choice to like,

Track 3: again buck that kind of like stereotypical role i.

Track 1: Kept thinking that maybe he was like he you know because he's he's doing this

Track 1: as a basketball coach at a high school it's not like a you know maybe he was

Track 1: like an 80s uh i don't know some kind of like someone from glenn gary glenn ross uh film like.

Track 3: And he just like was in.

Track 1: Like an mlm and he like failed and now he's like a high school teacher.

Track 3: That's exactly what he's like yeah.

Track 2: Like he was in a.

Track 3: Culty mlm and.

Track 2: He dropped out and like now he's a basketball coach it's it was such a choice.

Track 3: Yeah like but so weird the story that i made up in my head is like because like

Track 3: in my high school our driver's ed teacher was also our football coach,

Track 3: they just needed to have him on payroll so they could keep having him do football stuff.

Track 2: Sure.

Track 3: So my thought was this guy's like a,

Track 3: not like home ec but like a business prep like a kind of a weird um elective

Track 3: teacher and then their basketball coach like quit or got fired so they put him

Track 3: in that role and he was like well i'll just mold the two together i.

Track 2: Could see that too it's a very funny i really like it as a choice for like a

Track 2: high school in la i think it's.

Track 3: Really funny but so.

Track 2: Weird like so specific.

Track 1: And he's looking at the the like the board he's like are we x's or o's like he.

Track 3: Doesn't even actually know anything about basketball at all upside down yeah incredible stuff.

Track 2: Like really funny and i also love that their their like team like mascot is like a pig.

Track 3: Oh that mascot costume at

Track 3: the beginning was that man is an

Track 3: actual nightmare weaver yeah that was so fucking

Track 3: terrifying it reminds me of those like old those really really old pictures

Track 3: of like creepy kids uh dressed up for halloween in like the 1920s or whatever

Track 3: where they just have these really fucked up masks i was like that thing is going

Track 3: to haunt my nightmares i'm never gonna eat bacon again yeah creepy it looks like um.

Track 2: The like the killer in motel hell.

Track 3: Um where he's like he's.

Track 2: Wearing like a pig mask and he's like wielding a chainsaw.

Track 3: Like it's so scary oh it's awful really gross that's like this.

Track 2: That was the scariest part for you right leslie.

Track 3: Yeah absolutely yeah i actually turned it off i haven't seen the rest of the

Track 3: movie i got too scared after that part and then i just you know.

Track 1: It's what's funny though in general is that there is like lots of things about

Track 1: this movie that are clearly funny, but I don't know if it's necessarily like,

Track 1: ha ha, funny, like you're watching and you're just laughing constantly.

Track 1: It's just like, oh wow, that is just, it's a funny choice that they decided

Track 1: to make in this, in this movie.

Track 1: And like the plot, I guess we kind of didn't really, I didn't really sketch out the plot.

Track 1: I mean, it's kind of very, if you've seen the show or you know the,

Track 1: the film, like the, you know, the vampires slowly take over the high school

Track 1: and then there's a huge you know final kind of battle at the high school and.

Track 3: Yeah it's also very like yeah it's also very like classic like hero's journey

Track 3: with all the different steps you know like she rejects her calling something

Track 3: happens where she finally picks up the mantle a final conflict at the end and

Track 3: then and then a denouement at the at the end so it's very classic I know.

Track 3: Hey, I took French in college.

Track 3: Whoa. But you know that,

Track 3: The beats are very familiar.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, that's true. It is very, very similar. And yeah, and we briefly,

Track 1: I mentioned that like Luke Perry is, and we haven't really talked about his character.

Track 1: I think you did say, Kate, that he was like this, you know, like the working

Track 1: class burnout who's really good with cars.

Track 1: And I think also he, his boss, his boss like brags about paying him like too

Track 1: little for like to go to work.

Track 1: It's like, oh, way to be just exploited by this guy and like not,

Track 1: open your own shop. I don't know, do something.

Track 3: Seriously.

Track 2: Yeah, I couldn't tell if he was like, was he older, like a couple of years older

Track 2: and then just kind of stayed in town?

Track 2: Like what his story was that about that?

Track 1: But like Buffy didn't know who he was, right? They didn't know that he was or did they?

Track 1: I don't think so. When they were at the restaurant, they didn't know who they

Track 1: were. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure like much older.

Track 3: Either yeah either he had dropped out or was not for some reason not attending

Track 3: high school or like buffy was so like plugged into only like the popular group

Track 3: that she like never even noticed him in the hallways you know what i mean.

Track 2: Right yeah yeah um yeah and then very his best friend,

Track 2: um gets turned pretty early

Track 2: on and like that that scene where um

Track 2: he's like floating like i

Track 2: guess for like luke perry lives in

Track 2: like a i don't know like a shipping container like

Track 2: above the the car

Track 2: repair place or something i don't know i mean that makes

Track 2: sense yeah i would yeah so um

Track 2: you see uh david arquette's

Track 2: character like look into

Track 2: his window and he's like hey man you gotta let me in

Track 2: and like that's you know one of the rule the vampire rules

Track 2: that carries on um carries on through buffy and i guess like many other things

Track 2: you know that they have to be invited in and um he's like he's like let me in

Track 2: man and the other guy pike is like you're floating i'm not letting you in,

Track 2: he doesn't even like think it's weird he's not like he's not like why are you floating,

Track 2: he's just like i'm not letting you in because you're floating and i think that's

Track 2: sort of weird but i don't want to know anything yeah he's very like.

Track 3: Accepting of it.

Track 2: Almost yeah okay this.

Track 1: Is happening well he says something like there's something weird going on in this town it's like.

Track 3: Mellow about it.

Track 2: Maybe he's like the proto.

Track 3: Like the proto oz because.

Track 2: Oh yeah step green in the tv show he just kind of like immediately.

Track 3: Accepts everything that's.

Track 2: Going on he's like actually.

Track 3: That makes a lot of sense like with all the things going on and the weird things

Track 3: in sunnydale so well then he.

Track 2: Then he.

Track 1: Has the oh sorry.

Track 2: Oh no no i was gonna say like what you said leslie that was a cool moment when

Track 2: um christy's when buffy is like haven't you guys noticed this place is weird,

Track 2: right because that's like a thing that people in the tv show are always sort

Track 2: of trying to like push to the back of their minds you know like they don't want to think about or.

Track 3: It or just.

Track 2: Ignore it entirely.

Track 1: Like yeah yeah well then is it i think it's right after that scene when he uh

Track 1: like realizes like he his friend's floating he's like i'm not gonna.

Track 2: I'm not gonna hang out with you.

Track 1: And then he like.

Track 2: He's then driving.

Track 1: He's driving again like in that same they keep driving along that like bluff

Track 1: above the town or whatever like they just keep going to that one spot and he's

Track 1: driving and then he gets chased by the vampires there and has to you know you

Track 1: know he cuts off it or i guess accidentally cuts off his arm right like he hits the oh paul rubens.

Track 2: Yeah just pulls paul rubens arm off and then later calls him lefty which was

Track 2: very funny that's very funny.

Track 3: I like that his van is the same color scheme as the Scooby-Doo Mystery Mobile,

Track 3: and Jax would later call the team the Scoobies, so I thought that was a nice

Track 3: little sign of things to come.

Track 1: Interesting. I didn't catch the color of the van there.

Track 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's blue and green of the Mystery Mobile.

Track 2: What did you guys think of the vampire um just like the vamp look and yeah aesthetic of vamps.

Track 1: Do you think that it kind of had the vibe of the the bram stoker's dracula from

Track 1: i guess what like the year before like that kind of uh once he's changed not

Track 1: like at the beginning of the film like this very i don't know.

Track 3: It's um it's interesting that

Track 3: this might be for like budgetary reasons but there wasn't a whole lot different

Track 3: about them their ears were a little messed up and they also like they were paler

Track 3: and had the teeth but like the the buffy in the show they get very monstrous

Track 3: they have very like pronounced like forehead ridges almost like uh,

Track 3: like the guys in star trek you know um oh my god people are screaming at me

Track 3: because i can't remember what they're called klingons there we go thank you um,

Track 3: So, yeah, I like the TV look better because it is more monstrous.

Track 3: And also, they have to consciously shift into more humanoid form.

Track 3: And so they have to constantly be thinking about, okay, I have to almost doing Kegel exercises.

Track 2: Jesus Christ.

Track 3: You have to be tightening that muscle that makes you look more human.

Track 3: instead of just like letting it all out and turning super vampy.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, Paul Rubens doesn't really look anything other than just kind

Track 1: of his face has, you know, like makeup on it.

Track 3: Yeah, like the goatee does more for Paul Rubens than anything else about him.

Track 3: Like, holy shit. Can we talk about him?

Track 2: Yeah, let's talk about Paul Rubens.

Track 3: And entrance, him like viciously lapping on that merry-go-round as it slowly

Track 3: turns and he's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, I'm gonna fuck you clean up.

Track 3: oh i i've never i've never thought the word sexy when i think about paul rubens

Track 3: until i until today when i rewatched this because i was like holy shit like

Track 3: i never knew he was right there all along yeah.

Track 1: He and like his uh his attire too again is very it's not like particularly fancy but yeah he looks uh.

Track 3: No yeah he's very like yeah like like big fat uh leather jacket and like the hair like crazy you.

Track 1: Know he looks like um um he looks like one of the he looks like keifer sutherland like the lost boys.

Track 3: Yes this yeah sorry oh i'm kidding i'm kidding the vibe no they're not not as

Track 3: cool but yeah they definitely have a lost boys ish yeah i.

Track 2: Mean that makes sense it's right around the like,

Track 2: that era like that they would be copying that look probably right i.

Track 1: Think i saw that that was one of joss whedon's like inspirations maybe that seeped into my brain.

Track 2: Yeah it's definitely that was like four.

Track 1: Years before it.

Track 2: Low low budget lost boys outfits

Track 2: um yeah but

Track 2: paul rubin's amazing i do love that

Track 2: he just like appears it was kind of funny because

Track 2: he's like just cackling on the carousel and like it doesn't really get a lot

Track 2: of attention like they just kind of are like oh this guy's laughing on the carousel

Track 2: and then like scene yeah Finn yeah right no he's just incredible like the whole van.

Track 3: Riding thing with the arm was very funny.

Track 2: And the first thing he says.

Track 3: Afterwards is like you messed up my jacket man.

Track 2: I think he just was like listen i'm in this movie i'm gonna give it my absolute all yeah that's.

Track 3: The thing is nobody's phoning it in in this movie no not a single person which

Track 3: is like that's the mark of like a great bad movie.

Track 2: Yeah like when.

Track 3: When either somebody is really committed or like so not committed that it's

Track 3: just absolutely fucking insane and funny yeah.

Track 2: Does not.

Track 1: Mail it in.

Track 2: No it's like everybody's in

Track 2: a different movie maybe but they're all in a movie that they're like working

Track 2: really hard to be in because the tone shifts in this movie are insane and like

Track 2: the other thing I think that was really hard was like the music,

Track 2: is oh god it's.

Track 3: So crazy the scene where she is fighting the guy in the alley.

Track 2: Yeah it sounds.

Track 3: Like it sounds like a mix between like circus music and the.

Track 2: Kind that you that you that.

Track 3: You hear when you get put on hold at your dentist office.

Track 2: It's like what is this yeah like

Track 2: listening to it's so not scary or

Track 2: like um like thrilling or yeah

Track 2: there's no like like suspense at

Track 2: all it like cuts out all the suspense fucking goopy

Track 2: and then there were moments yeah i

Track 2: don't know and then there were like moments of like there's

Track 2: fighting where there's it's like silent which is

Track 2: also weird right yeah they ran

Track 2: out of budget or something yeah i also think my

Track 2: movie was mixed i think like the sound was mixed really weird uh the one that

Track 2: i watched because it would get like really quiet and really loud sometimes and

Track 2: like for instance at the dance it was like insanely quiet and i wanted the music

Track 2: to be like really loud yeah it was weird oh that's funny yeah yeah.

Track 1: Looking at the soundtrack there's a bunch of like there's a bunch of very era

Track 1: specific bands i don't know what.

Track 2: Song was playing.

Track 1: In that scene but there's like an ozzy song they have the rem song which wasn't

Track 1: on the soundtrack i guess maybe whatever reason towed.

Track 2: The wet sprocket pantera.

Track 1: At the end.

Track 2: Oh, yeah.

Track 1: Interesting soundtrack.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: I don't know if it doesn't fit the vibe.

Track 2: I think they just could have used the music, like, more to their advantage.

Track 2: Like, there was no music that, like, kicked in real hard, you know,

Track 2: where you're just like, oh, they're about to fight.

Track 2: Like, play Pantera really loud at, like, the dance when everybody's fighting

Track 2: or something. I don't know.

Track 1: Yeah, there was no good, like, needle drops.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah, and like there was a DJ vampire.

Track 1: That's right.

Track 2: Like he should have come in and really done a needle drop, but he didn't.

Track 3: Yeah, some like Depeche Mode or something.

Track 2: Yeah, vampires love Depeche Mode.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, think of all the good music in Blade. Like that movie had like tons of.

Track 3: Oh, fuck. Yeah. Oh, man.

Track 2: Yeah, I do want every vampire. like anytime there's a club scene in a vampire

Track 2: movie I just want it to be like a blood rave you know I feel like that's what

Track 2: it needs that's like the height of like a vampire club scene.

Track 1: If they had the money they could have you know if they turned the entire school

Track 1: at the end instead of losing they could have then had some blood squirting out of the school's.

Track 2: Sprinklers That's right. There wasn't really any blood, was there?

Track 1: No, not really.

Track 2: Is it a PG?

Track 3: No, yeah.

Track 2: Is it a PG-13 movie? Maybe it is.

Track 1: I think it had to be. There weren't, I don't think there was any.

Track 3: Yes, there was.

Track 1: Oh, PG-13.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: There's no, they don't say fuck, I don't think, even once.

Track 2: Yeah. So, like, they can't have that much blood. And then, like,

Track 2: yeah, the vampire's dying.

Track 2: I wish that they had come up with some...

Track 3: Oh, yeah, they just kind of die like people, which I really don't like.

Track 2: No, I really want them. I love when they dust or something.

Track 3: Like, yeah, because it solidifies that they're no longer human beings, you know?

Track 2: Yeah, exactly.

Track 3: Paul Reuben's just fucking, Paul Reuben's, like,

Track 3: corpsing for, like, almost 45 seconds, going, like, and then finally dying,

Track 3: like, in the stairwell is, like, so, like, so, like, degrading and undignified. It's like, no.

Track 2: For a vampire.

Track 3: Yeah, for a big, powerful, the second-hand commander to fucking Rutger Hauer,

Track 3: he needed to do a little more pizzazz in his death. I don't know.

Track 3: Yeah, a little more oomph.

Track 1: I couldn't find anything that said this, but I almost wonder if his death scene

Track 1: was like, he just did that on one of the takes.

Track 1: And like, this is actually really funny. We should just do that.

Track 3: Oh, yeah.

Track 2: A hundred percent.

Track 1: Right? Yeah.

Track 3: You know, yeah, they were in fucking stitches and they were like,

Track 3: you know what, let's just keep it in there. Because at the end,

Track 3: like, during the credits, they play more of it.

Track 1: Right. They probably have five minutes of that.

Track 3: Yeah. They really, really thought that was just fucking the bee's knees. Like, loved it.

Track 2: It's funny. I mean, yeah. I'm sure they just were like, yeah, sure.

Track 3: It's funny. But again, it's, like, tonally weird. Like, it didn't.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: I think the whole, if they had toned down some of the cheesiness and went more

Track 1: with maybe not quite the darkness or the level of the show, they could have would have just been,

Track 1: like, they could have still used, like, the funny Valley Girl stuff,

Track 1: but made it seem, like, fit in with, like, a darker sound.

Track 1: I don't know. Something to meld it to.

Track 3: Yeah. I think a little more contrast would have been nice.

Track 1: Just too too much cheesiness and then it ends with like the most silly death

Track 1: of like any per any vampire any movie.

Track 2: I can think of or.

Track 1: Any any death really it's just ridiculous yeah.

Track 2: Yeah and like it's i mean i feel

Track 2: like yeah there's so this weekend i i re-watched um scream one and two,

Track 2: and um which are both just yeah it's

Track 2: just like so speaking of david arquette speaking of david arquette

Track 2: um who like i see i feel like yeah at that point was like much much more of

Track 2: a known entity as david arquette um but you know there's like the whole thing

Track 2: in in scream that the self-consciousness of like um,

Track 2: when someone dies like they didn't really die you

Track 2: know you got to check on them one more time and like

Track 2: i wonder if they were doing kind

Track 2: of something in that world but like it didn't really hit you know it's like

Track 2: oh well you know maybe pretend to be dead and then she like looks over and he's

Track 2: like ha ha still not dead yet you know like i don't know it needs something like that but um yeah.

Track 3: Like um maybe like at the end of the buffy versus dracula episode.

Track 2: Oh right where.

Track 3: He's like a he's like a smoke entity and she's like get get out of here and

Track 3: then he comes back and she's like i see you like.

Track 2: Yeah i know you're there i know you're still

Track 2: there i know you don't actually die um yeah

Track 2: oh you know what i was thinking it was funny that we just talked about

Track 2: well we all have talked about nosferatu like in our

Track 2: own our own podcasts but like

Track 2: um there's a similar thing again

Track 2: another like sort of vampire trope that like

Track 2: the master vampire and buffy

Track 2: like like belong together which is

Track 2: interesting um and in this

Track 2: like you know there's no establishment of

Track 2: why so you're just kind of like uh

Track 2: okay like it's not believable at

Track 2: all but like in you know I was thinking about because we

Track 2: all just recently watched Noseratu like how well how much more that's established

Track 2: you know that like um there's there's no reason I don't think why he would think

Track 2: that Buffy like belongs to him as far as I could tell.

Track 3: Yeah it doesn't really tell you it doesn't really show you how they're interconnected

Track 3: I guess just because he's evil and she's good and good always you know triumphs

Track 3: over evil but evil's always around so it's just sort of like that vague general

Track 3: concept that we all like kind of agree on.

Track 1: And they used those flashback dream scenes, I guess, in the beginning,

Track 1: where they just try and make it seem like as long as history has existed,

Track 1: these two fought against each other, they should just be together instead.

Track 1: It's better. I don't know. Some kind of...

Track 1: i don't know what the what that would be exactly.

Track 2: Yeah yeah i just thought it was interesting that

Track 2: it like became it was like part of this movie too

Track 2: that it's like enough of sort of like a well-worn um vampire trope you know

Track 2: that they were like oh throw that little bit in there too that like they belong

Track 2: together because they're you know like good and evil yeah rather you know yeah.

Track 1: Like they purposely don't they like keep letting her live you know quote end

Track 1: quotes like letting her live so they could have the final battle you know or the final showdown.

Track 2: Yeah right which is a very yeah that happens on the show a lot too where it's

Track 2: like oh don't kill her yet like we gotta torture her more which is hilarious

Track 2: you know that's why buffy never ends up getting killed because like spike will

Track 2: be like i'm not gonna kill her yet i'm gonna make her feel really bad for a

Track 2: while yeah maybe maybe that's.

Track 3: Why josh left the movies because they were like we don't want you to torture buffy the character and.

Track 2: Josh was like oh that's all.

Track 3: I want to do.

Track 2: He's like really that's the only way i can finish oh god sorry but you know what i mean like yeah he.

Track 1: Couldn't finish the movie so yeah.

Track 2: Yeah that's what i meant finish the movie yeah okay cool cool,

Track 2: um but yeah it's i don't know that's that it just made me think about how like

Track 2: there's that whole thing always that's like we're made for each other like you

Track 2: always have to have like the sexiness of the vampire that's like yeah come be

Track 2: with me we will live together forever yeah.

Track 3: That's a little hard to do when your partner is rutger hauer like he's just

Track 3: not very also in like a Rutger Hauer in like a Party City.

Track 2: Dracula costume complete with spats. Like literally a $10 cape.

Track 3: And like the fucking like the most village people ass gay little mustache I've ever seen.

Track 3: Like holy shit. I'm just like no I don't think so sir. I don't think so Mr. Mr.

Track 2: Hauer.

Track 3: Mr. Hauer no thank you.

Track 1: I was looking at his like filmography photography.

Track 1: I don't know if you could guess how many movies he's been in that have the word

Track 1: blood in them. Oh, yeah. It's a lot of them.

Track 3: A lot. Yeah. He was big in those B-movie action movies. He did a lot of stuff

Track 3: with, fuck, what's his name? Cameron Mitchell.

Track 3: So that's kind of like the caliber of the movie he was working with,

Track 3: especially late in his game.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: He was in a movie called Dracula 3, direct-to-DVD.

Track 2: Yeah, that's right.

Track 1: Which I have not seen, but it sounds... I didn't know they made a third one of that series.

Track 2: That's pretty awesome that they just were like, let's just call it that.

Track 3: Let's just call it that.

Track 1: Dracula 3 Legacy.

Track 2: Nice.

Track 3: Hobo with a Shotgun, though, that's a good-ass movie. Hobo with a Shotgun's

Track 3: very good. Anyway, sorry, that's not what we're here to talk about.

Track 1: No. Well, he was also in, was he in Batman Returns? No, he wasn't.

Track 2: I can never get any of the Batman.

Track 1: No, he wasn't. I only say that because I think that Paul Rubens was in Batman

Track 1: Returns briefly. I saw that.

Track 3: Oh, you know what? I think you're right. One of them.

Track 1: Yeah. That was his first, like, this was like his first big movie back from

Track 1: his, you know, legal troubles of his arrest.

Track 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Track 1: Pee Wee Herman gets in trouble.

Track 2: So weird.

Track 3: That's my favorite one of his movies Pee.

Track 2: Wee Herman Gets in Trouble.

Track 3: Pee Wee Herman Gets in Trouble that's.

Track 1: A sequel to Big Adventure.

Track 3: Underrated yeah really good one one last thing in my notes that kind of plays on the like kind of,

Track 3: like innate nature of buffy's like

Track 3: you know being the chosen one or whatever is that

Track 3: um in this one she she almost

Track 3: has like a physical like bodily reaction whenever

Track 3: there's oh yeah vampire nearby she basically has

Track 3: like pms cramps she calls them but i thought

Track 3: that was like i thought that would or it could be

Track 3: a very cool concept that her literal

Track 3: biology plays into her being

Track 3: the chosen one like to emphasize that slaying is literally written into her

Track 3: dna yeah um but because i know it's joss i know it's just kind of like it's

Track 3: got this kind of creepy veneer on it that just kind of ruins the whole idea that's like oh it.

Track 1: Seems like that was like just for a joke where she would be like oh so i have.

Track 3: Yeah just to say yeah she's got pms and

Track 3: it's also like her her vamp detector and it's like yeah

Track 3: yeah you're right like that

Track 3: could have been really cool like if

Track 3: it was written by a sensitive person exactly yeah

Track 3: and that like how many times have we talked about stuff

Track 3: like that it's like this could have been such a neat idea but because joss doesn't

Track 3: know how to handle it it just gets totally like ruined yeah like it doesn't

Track 3: go far enough or it like totally misses the mark it's like this is like this

Track 3: is like core joss right here is this like this choice to do that well.

Track 2: It reminds me of like um ginger snaps where.

Track 3: Yeah well you.

Track 2: Know where it's like it is like you know how often we talk about how buffy the

Track 2: show is about being a teenager,

Track 2: and it's, like, a heightened experience of, like, how fucked up it already feels to be a teenager.

Track 2: And, like, part of the experience of being a teenager, if you have a vagina,

Track 2: is, like, you're going to get your period and, like, that would...

Track 2: And it's difficult and confusing and, like, it would be cool if that was,

Track 2: like, part of the Slayer experience, you know?

Track 2: If it was done, like you said, in a way that was, like...

Track 2: not creepy because you know he.

Track 1: Was thinking a creepy way.

Track 2: Yeah because yeah absolutely interesting yeah

Track 2: like here's this other thing that you're like sort of you know it's like people

Track 2: colloquially call like getting your period the curse and it's like here's another

Track 2: part of your curse as the slayer is this these like weird cramps you know right.

Track 3: Yeah vamp vamp dousing cramps.

Track 2: Vamp cramp.

Track 3: A vamp cramp i hate when that happens.

Track 2: Oh man i got a vamp cramp it would be like oh you're like walking around in

Track 2: the in the cemetery and like a vamp's about to come up and like you get a little

Track 2: cramp yeah vamp cramps that could be the name.

Track 1: Of it that sounds like a good name for a band.

Track 2: The vamp yeah it would be like a weird i i guess i'm just thinking about the

Track 2: cramps but yeah it would be like some sort of like rockabilly yeah i was thinking

Track 2: like surf rock like yeah yeah yeah off holy shit yeah okay well that's.

Track 3: That's kate and my new project.

Track 2: Yeah when we're done i'm gonna learn how to play guitar i guess.

Track 1: Yeah you could you could regain that uh the joss whedon you know cruelty into

Track 1: uh bringing it something,

Track 1: bring it back yeah.

Track 2: All right we're doing it stay tuned for our debut album of the vamp cramps.

Track 1: You need to i think your first song would have to be like a theme song or no

Track 1: you just have to re redo the music for this oh.

Track 2: Yeah oh my god yeah perfect We're like the nerf herder of 2020.

Track 2: What year are we in? 2025?

Track 3: 2020.

Track 2: 2020. 2020's nerf herder, the vamp cramps.

Track 1: I forgot to mention the beginning. The movie was budget was only $7 million. So that's all these.

Track 3: $7 million, yeah.

Track 1: Just crazy. You think about $7 million. Even at that time, that's maybe like

Track 1: $20 million now. it's a pretty low budget.

Track 2: Yeah it made 16.

Track 1: Million so it did not.

Track 2: It's more.

Track 1: Than doubled its money but like as far as a you know a movie that gets just

Track 1: like you said how did he then get another job after just you know.

Track 2: Just the luck of being a white guy in the white guy in hollywood,

Track 2: and that still meant something i suppose hey it will again don't worry,

Track 2: yeah you must have just had a good idea yeah I mean somebody must yeah must

Track 2: have just been like this is a cool idea like I don't know but yeah it's funny

Track 2: it's like I can't imagine anything like that ever happening,

Track 2: to anyone like in our,

Track 2: time period you know yeah.

Track 1: No definitely not.

Track 2: Just like let me take a chance on a young kid.

Track 1: Yeah 100% no two years after this film he rewrote the script for Speed yeah.

Track 2: What like just for fun or on purpose well no like you know they hired him to

Track 2: rewrite the script for fun yeah no he was like they're like he also rewrote twister he.

Track 1: Rewrote the movie twister the screenplay.

Track 2: Oh yeah water.

Track 1: World which he didn't do anything he didn't do much for that.

Track 2: No uh.

Track 1: X-men the original one man like he was just getting getting work.

Track 2: Yeah i always forget it's funny

Track 2: i made like a joke about joss whedon's like writing style

Track 2: on twitter and i was viciously

Track 2: attacked after a certain amount of time and

Track 2: like it's because i completely forgot that like he's also known for like superhero

Track 2: stuff yeah like i just think of him as the guy who wrote buffy and like angel

Track 2: you know and like dollhouse and whatever but i think like avengers right Yeah,

Track 2: like I think of him very much as being this like 90s sort of like early aughts

Track 2: kind of like sci fi fantasy writer and not like a superhero dude.

Track 2: And I and I realized I like crossed into territory that I like was not that

Track 2: I never spend any time in.

Track 2: And I was like, oh, no, what have I done?

Track 2: It was crazy. I was not prepared.

Track 2: yeah he's one of those people.

Track 1: That's revered in a large swath of the internet.

Track 2: Yeah oh gross yeah yeah i'm like we think critically about joss like that's

Track 2: really important to like our podcast is that you know we're not joss worshipers

Track 2: and even if like he does a good job i'm still kind of like yeah.

Track 3: We we grit our teeth when we have to say like oh that was a good.

Track 2: Yeah moment.

Track 1: That he did maybe someone else did it and he didn't do it.

Track 2: Yeah i mean there is a writer's room.

Track 1: Yeah exactly yeah one.

Track 2: Of the writers had.

Track 1: A good idea and then he just took credit for it.

Track 2: Right exactly.

Track 1: Perfect. Well, I don't know. Did you have any last thoughts?

Track 1: I think you had the PMS one, but any last buffy buffs?

Track 3: That would be a good one to go out on.

Track 2: Yeah, I think that's the way to do it. Yeah.

Track 3: I mean this would be a funny.

Track 2: A fun movie to just like yeah like hang out with your friends like get stoned

Track 2: to or whatever like you know.

Track 3: It's a good movie to just sit.

Track 2: In like and watch and like you know put on in the background it's.

Track 3: Silly yeah there's a lot of there's.

Track 2: A lot of like holy shit that guy's in it you know.

Track 3: Yeah this is like prime dishwashing show dishwashing material you know what

Track 3: i mean yeah because you can you can turn and then yeah you'll see ben affleck

Track 3: and be like wait what the fuck yeah that happened yeah.

Track 1: Lots of little lots of cameos yeah i think i mean sometimes i don't always ask

Track 1: this but i sometimes will say like would you recommend for people to watch it

Track 1: if they haven't you would say yes but not like i'm watching the height of cinema right now.

Track 3: Right yeah i

Track 3: wouldn't i probably wouldn't if they if someone asked me like hey you know should

Track 3: i i want to get into Buffy should I start like at the at square one I would

Track 3: be like no I would direct them more to the the show I feel like or even like

Track 3: um some of the later comic books even yeah.

Track 1: Well I mean I think he said too that this movie has no influence officially on like the show.

Track 3: Yeah he's he's made it clear it's like non-canonical right.

Track 1: Yeah yeah yeah I would I mean I would say I agree.

Track 2: Yeah. Like, I would say if somebody was like, I've never watched any Buffy before,

Track 2: should I start with the movie? I would say, no, start with season one.

Track 2: And we stand firmly on starting with season one, because some people will be

Track 2: like, you can skip season one.

Track 2: And you shouldn't skip season one.

Track 1: That's silly.

Track 3: No.

Track 2: Why would you do something so silly?

Track 1: If you're going to go for it, you've got to start from the beginning.

Track 2: Yeah, I agree.

Track 1: I can't think of any show where you wouldn't do that.

Track 2: Yeah, it would be really weird. Maybe like The Leftovers. I don't know.

Track 3: Yeah, or like Parks and Rec where it's more of like a weekly thing.

Track 2: Right, there's nothing. You could start, yeah, like 30 Rock.

Track 2: You could probably start at any season.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: But like, yeah.

Track 1: True.

Track 3: I feel like Buffy's very strong right out the gate. You know,

Track 3: it's not it's not one of those episodes or one of those shows that takes a couple

Track 3: of seasons to find its footing or like rearrange its writer's room.

Track 3: And like it, I feel like it's not like season one is vastly,

Track 3: vastly different from season seven.

Track 3: Of course, like any TV show is going to be like that.

Track 3: But season one definitely has its foundation set where a lot of TV shows do not.

Track 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Track 1: So listeners out there, you should watch the TV show Buffy and maybe not watch

Track 1: this film, but I think it's worth it for laughs, you know, if anything.

Track 2: Yeah. Put it on like at a, have an 80s themed vampire party and put it on the background.

Track 3: Yeah, that's fun.

Track 1: Take out your $10, you know, costume and, you know, and buff it.

Track 2: Yeah. Throw an environment themed dance.

Track 2: yeah hug the world yeah and watch the world and watch this movie.

Track 1: A bug dance that's what you said.

Track 3: A buff dance.

Track 1: Or no do you think you said before like didn't they say like bugs oh.

Track 2: Yeah oh yeah a bug themed uh buffy dance yeah.

Track 1: And you just got this playing perfect perfect well uh leslie and kate uh it's

Track 1: been great to have you on to talk about the i guess the og buffy vampire slayer.

Track 3: Film yeah yeah thank you so much for having us.

Track 1: Of course of course and uh people can follow your podcast uh thanks for the

Track 1: memories i know kate you mentioned your other ones i don't know if you want

Track 1: to mention any other things you have going on or other projects.

Track 2: Um, I have another podcast called Tender Subject that is about, um,

Track 2: art and film and books, um, and through,

Track 2: like, the lens of cannibalism and body horror, and I have had an extremely lazy

Track 2: January and haven't put out a new episode in a while, but we are coming back

Track 2: soon with an episode on Yellow Jackets Season 2,

Track 2: getting ready for Season 3, which is going to come out very shortly.

Track 2: um yeah and that's pretty much it but you can follow me on tender subject um

Track 2: on all of the things and i also do a lot of collages and like art for the podcast too which is really fun,

Track 2: and then i almost called you buffy leslie buffy has all the information what an honor yeah um Yeah.

Track 3: So you can find, you know, our show on your podcatching app of choice.

Track 3: All of our personal social media is linked.

Track 3: And then also links to our Patreon where we do like special after dark episodes

Track 3: where we just kind of like shoot the shit and talk about whatever we want.

Track 3: You can check that all out at fangs.zone.

Track 3: And then personally for me, I do voice acting and I just wrapped an episode

Track 3: of a web series called Sonic Ops.

Track 3: about Sonic the Hedgehog, where I play Miles' Tales per Hour.

Track 2: Yay! That's awesome.

Track 3: So yeah, you can check that out. You just go to YouTube and look up Sonic OPS.

Track 1: Awesome.

Track 2: Nice!

Track 1: Well, I can link all of those fun things.

Track 1: And obviously, if you're listening to this show, you can continue listening

Track 1: in the same place you already are listening.

Track 1: And we will catch you next time on Left of the Projector.