As the interview begins, Nick shares about his background, explaining that he is a psychologist by education and trade, and a computer scientist by life. Psychology came before his current work, and he came to UX through a chain of career events. Moving forward, Andy and Nick discuss the dichotomy between IT and digital marketing. Turning to agile, they consider its pitfalls and ways in which it may be fused with traditional waterfall methodologies to best meet customer needs. Nick then offers a rather controversial, but insightful and arguably correct, perspective: empathy is not a research method, as it is not always data-driven.  Through the conversation, Nick comments on the need to “educate up,” leadership roles, an agile mentality, creating transformational change, and more. Before the conversation ends, Nick offers thoughts on current demand for his work and provides advice to students.

Key Takeaways:

0:40 - IntroducingDr. Nick Fine his background

4:26 - IT versus digital thinking

7:04 - Ideas of a marketing mindset and an IT mindset

13:07 - The topic of organizations

17:22 - How leadership roles change in an agile space

18:04 - Nick argues what matters most is mentality

21:30 - Harmonization of agile with a more hierarchical element

23:06 - Agile’s usein startups and wider enterprises

25:04 - Nick isn’t sure “agile” is a fitting name

27:52 - Andy and Nick talk about creating transformational change

32:35 - The topic of empathy

37:50 - Demand for Nick’s work and shifting package design ideas

41:38 - Personalization is the future

42:45 - Nick offers advice to students and closing thoughts

Links:

Learn more about Dr. Nick Fine and the resources he recommends from Dr. Susan Weinshenk.

Learn more about Andy Murray.

Learn more about the “It’s a Customer’s World” podcast.

Learn more about the University of Arkansas and its Customer Centered Leadership Initiative.

Learn more about the University of Arkansas’ business school, Walton College.