Join us as we chat with Fred McCoy, the owner of newly updated bar and venue, Bad Ending.  We dive into his personal history with music photography, how that led to buying and restoring one of his favorite places in Rochester, and his vision for creating an inclusive space that welcomes different musical genres.

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Foreign.

Hi and welcome to Nights and Weekends.

This is Kate Rogers, your host and I am here with our special guest of the day, Fred McCoy.

Fred is the owner of local venue bar Bad Ending and also a photographer in the Scene.

I'm going to say hello to Fred and thank you for being on the show today.

Oh my God, thank you so much for having me.

I'm thrilled to be here surrounded by so many friendly faces.

Yes, we're so, so happy to have you on your venue.

And Barr has made such an impact on the music scene and that's what we wanted to talk about today.

I'm also here with Virginia and Joey, my loyal co host and we can just kind of get into the conversation here.

So, you know, we.

I think the Rochester music scene has been so grateful that we have another venue.

That sounds amazing.

Since you've taken it over and revamped everything, what was your inspiration behind starting something like that here?

That's a, that's a good question.

It's a loaded question.

So I, I have the pleasure of bartending on the side.

One of the many things that I do at the Rosen Crown and the previous establishment that was in the space, they did a lot of live music, but I would say they catered mostly metal shows, punk shows, just like, I would say skewed more towards like the hardcore scene, which was really cool.

Love that experimental stuff.

And then, you know, I wasn't necessarily thinking about keeping it open primarily as a live music establishment.

It was more so important to the neighbors in Upper Monroe that a bar or a gathering place still exists in that area.

But as we took it over and we were talking about, you know, how to run operations, like what was really important to us, one of the things that I brought up was just making sure that we fostered a space to have live performances.

And I say performances because something that I wanted to expand into was just, you know, beyond live music.

Like what other types of performances are people looking for a space?

And you know, we do comedy shows, we have a monthly drag show residency.

But you know, I think people have really started to see it as more an alternative space for different types of performances.

But you know, live music was definitely at its core.

I was just like, yeah, people are gonna, people are gonna wanna come back here to see that.

Yeah, I think what's different about the space and what's different about you as kind of running the show there is that you are open to experiment with the types of music and genres that come in.

The sound actually booked a show there A few months ago, and we were just bringing in some goth bands, you know, in untraditional, you know, maybe not have the biggest following.

And you were so accepting and open to that.

And I think sometimes when you're trying to book here or you're trying to play in any city, it's hard to find that level of acceptance because sometimes you're guaranteed to bring a certain amount of people or make a certain amount of sales at the bar.

And you're just kind of really open minded about that.

And I think that's why you're kind of creating and sparking more change in our scene here.

You know, I.

I appreciate you saying that.

Yeah, I think in a way, like all music genres are equal.

I'd prefer not to give any genre any sort of particular weight.

On a personal level.

I love all types of music.

It's more about am I able to form an emotional connection with the music that's playing.

And I listen to country, rock, hip hop, bubblegum pop, like, you name it.

I'll listen to anything that just makes me feel a type of way.

So it's kind of important for both me and my partner to make sure that like, as we book shows, it's less about.

Obviously, you know, we are a bar, we want to make money because we have to make money to stay open.

But it's not so much the crowd that we want to bring in.

I think every music genre has a different crowd that may be associated with this.

And I think it just gives us broader exposure to types of music also.

I just think it's great to bring in different types of music into the neighborhood so that people, you know, who don't see their music tastes typically represented in the music venues that are available, they're like, oh, wow, like that's really cool, that bad ending, like how to show like that.

And I think, you know, even the show that you were talking about, gothy dark wave show, that we ended up having another dark wave show after that.

And it was just so nice to see people that had.

I won.

I had never seen at any other venue in the city.

But also, you know, hadn't seen a bad ending, like come and have a really good time and like get to see the music that they wanted to see at a local venue.

It's really nice to see.

Yeah, it is.

And it, it's a vibe, right?

Like I went to that second Dark wave night and people were, you had the lights like so good and people were just like sticking around, ordering fries, having a beer.

And I Think that level of, like, I don't know, it's low stakes, right?

Like, your.

Your covers are low, your food is in, beverages are, you know, approachable.

Step ins.

You know, you don't have to spend $1 million.

And.

And it kind of reminds me of 20 years ago and used to just go have a fun night out, not have to spend $50 just to have a good time.

And I think that's really, really important.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, if you spend $100, a bad ending, like, you are having probably the time of your life, and there's no way that you're actually drinking and eating all of that food.

I have to say, I really appreciate how the bathroom doors lock and the floors aren't sticky.

You know, it's the little things.

It is the little things.

You have the right vibe for me.

And the sound system.

I mean, I've played when there.

When it was Rose and Crown and the sound.

I'm not dissing that at all.

And I think, you know, any stage is, you know.

But you revamped the sound system.

You do sound there, right?

Yeah.

So revamped the sound system.

I.

A recurring complaint when I bartended there was about this, about the sound system, but at the time, I was just a bartender, so I was kind of.

Kind of like, I don't know what to tell you.

I can't really help you, but I hear you.

And then, like, just even as we were opening, there were, like, reviews, I think even on Reddit that were like, yeah, you know, like, I really hope they invest in the sound system.

It was kind of like, all right, like, if we're going to do this, like, let's do it right for everybody.

So we ripped out the old PV system that was in there that's now at our house.

It's kind of just like a backyard party set.

That's really all that it's good for.

But we ended up putting a digital mixer in and X Air, which is great because that helps us maximize the space in a smaller venue.

Just kind of keeping everything digital.

New microphones, new cables, new speakers, like, top and bottom.

Like, we actually have monitors for bands, which is nice.

But, yeah, it was just like, really about getting the basics.

And I think now that we have that in place, we're kind of looking at, like, what other kind of technology or kind of features do we want to bring in to, like, make sure that bands are really having the best time they could have?

Yeah, it's probably like you optimize as you.

As you go Exactly.

Figure it out.

So are you a Rochester native?

I am not.

I am born and R.A.

in the greatest state in the union, New Jersey.

That is where I am from.

Got it.

And so when did you move to Rochester?

So I got to experience the last Park AV Fest, which was utterly wild, in case any of you guys were there.

It was completely wild.

Also, like, so producer Chris Lindstrom here.

That is one of the things I really don't understand.

Like, Park AV Fest was never for me, but the fact that it doesn't exist anymore is really odd.

I don't understand it because it had everybody showed up to that, like, every year.

Like, how is that not a thing anymore?

Sorry.

Shouting to the void.

Apologies.

Bring Park FS back, everybody.

But, you know, we got to enjoy all of that.

Got to see everything that Rochester had to offer before, you know, we went into pandemic mode.

And it's been great to kind of see us come out of that as a community, see people walking the streets, going to shows, going to venues.

But, yeah, we've been here.

And what was your music scene in New Jersey like compared to here?

And what do you think we do better?

I was probably a little too young to appreciate the music scenes, so I spent the majority of my adult life, if not all of my adult life in New York City.

So, like, the music scene there, pretty vibrant.

I mean, there's just so many.

It has the advantage of having so many venues in a singular location of different sizes.

So super tiny venues that could maybe seat like 15 people to obviously, like 20,000 plus venues in some of the bigger auditoriums, but definitely varied.

I think it was cool going to college there and seeing a lot of, like, up and coming artists just kind of play around the city.

So I definitely miss it.

But something that I love about Rochester is that there is absolutely no shortage of original music and people looking to find their own sound and create their own sounds.

And, you know, I know that we were talking about this a couple of days ago, but nearly everybody you meet in Rochester has some sort of, like, creative hobby.

And I think a lot of that, you know, is often, like, photography.

But I would say, like, the second most popular, like, hobby that somebody has and, or just does as an additional thing is music.

And I think that's.

It's wonderful.

Yeah.

I mean, it really does make a big difference having all these things going on.

And I think part of the other thing about you Know where things are right now is you can start something without having an insane amount of money.

And that's kind of the biggest advantage in many ways of being in Rochester is you can just do something.

You can open a gallery.

You can, you know, open.

Open a new place that is taking over an old place.

You know, you can bring your art to a gallery.

Like, you know, I know you are, you know, for behind the Glass coming up.

And Joey's done before as well.

Yeah.

Just because you want to.

Yeah.

I don't recommend trying to open a bar in New York City or live music.

That is a very expensive endeavor.

Yeah, I can imagine.

But I want to talk about your photography a little bit, because you.

I first met you as a music photographer and you were taking photos of some bands I was in or a band I was.

And I always loved your photography.

And so it seems like you were really immersed and drawn to the music world.

And I just wanted to hear a little bit more about that.

Yeah, it's honestly interesting or maybe even a little shameful how I kind of fell into it.

So the first time I ever took a single picture live music was actually in Rochester.

I've done a ton of street photography.

I do a lot of outdoor and landscape photography.

I'm a big hiker.

So, like, the harder it is to get to a place and take a picture, like, I'm all for it.

That's kind of what I do.

But one night I was just sitting at home alone and I saw that the Velveteers were playing.

And the little promotion at the Bug Jar had them sounding, like, kind of cool.

And I'm like, you know what?

I've got some free time.

I'm just gonna.

Just gonna bring my camera and go see that show.

And I went.

And the music was amazing, the band was amazing.

And I had my camera and I started taking pictures.

And, like, I got a couple of, like, really good ones.

And I'm like, oh, wow.

Like, I wanna.

I wanna do this again.

See if, like, I can get better at it and get better at it and get better at it.

And then I just didn't stop.

Well until I took over the bar.

And now I have no more time.

There's, like, a cap on time now.

Yeah.

Only there's only so many shows a week that I can see.

There is one show tonight that I'm hoping to get out to, but TBD will actually make it out there.

What show is that?

It's Miss Cherry Delight playing over at the Bug Jar, actually.

Oh, yeah, I didn't see that.

That's.

That'll be great.

Yeah, no, I think that's.

I wanted to talk about, you know, that intersection between art and music.

It comes up a lot.

It's a common theme.

And I think, you know, like you said before, we have the capability to, when you're not owning a bar, do a lot of things and, you know, have time for that here, which, which is great.

But.

Yeah.

So do you have a musician that you love to photograph?

I do love taking pictures of Croy.

They're all wonderful.

Definitely some of my better pictures, I think, you know, there's a lot of like, really fun punk and hardcore bands.

Like, I enjoy taking pictures of, you know, groups like Only Shallow or Debatably Stable.

I love taking pictures of Goat Farm.

But like, I love.

I love these groups that bring a lot of energy to their show because I think a part of it, you know, is obviously like, how well do you play your music?

But playing, playing for the radio or playing for streaming is a little different than playing in terms of performance.

And I think that requires a level of like, theatricality that, you know, is something that bands of varying degrees have.

And I think those bands that I mentioned have it.

And I think that is something where, like when you're taking pictures and like, you know, that drama comes out.

Like, that is truly like where the magic happens at least like behind the lens for me.

I really enjoy your band photography, like at live shows, like your playfulness with like light and shadow and like, you don't usually get like front facing.

Bands are usually like looking away in like a state of like, emotion.

There's like definitely a visual story there that I think is great.

One of my favorite photos you took that I've seen on social media, of course, was of Daniel Ponder.

Like the Rembrandt lighting I think you used was like beautiful with like the pink hues and everything.

I'm also a huge fan of hers.

So, I mean, Danielle Ponder does make taking pictures of her very easy.

She's unbelievably talented.

And I think when, you know, I talk about like that level of drama coming out, I think like there is such beautiful gravitas that she has when she performs that, you know, like, that is the thing that I want to capture.

And I think some performers, like, make it very clear like what it is that they're trying to put out there with their music and with their presence that like, that's what I'm going for.

Kind of like when I, when I try and take pictures it's just like, what are they trying to say to the audience?

And, like, am I even capable of capturing that?

I think one of the things that I love about your photography, Fred, is that you have this similar mentality that I do where you don't get in the way.

Like, you try to stay off to the side or a little bit further back in the crowd and try and get the shots that other people are not getting.

I love that.

And it's funny, I was actually talking to another artist for that behind the Glass episode, and one of the things that I complimented him on was, you know, when I met you, you were taking pictures at bad ending for a hip hop show.

And you were being very gracious to the guests and getting out of the way and being spatially aware of, like, what's going on, knowing that, like, you know, you're here to take pictures.

Sure.

But everybody else who's paid for a ticket is here to simply enjoy the show.

And I think that's.

That's a big part of it too.

You know, it's just like, you're in a way, interrupting the space because you're not.

Even if you're going there to enjoy the music, you are still doing an additional activity on top of that.

So I think that's a key part is, like, how do you do this?

But also, like, let everyone still have fun.

Yeah, it's.

It's a balance.

Absolutely.

And a lot of photographers, I think, are not the best at that.

One of my biggest pet peeves is people that use flashes at shows.

And, like, I try not to, and when people ask me why I don't, I always give them the answer that when you're shooting in a larger venue, you are not allowed to do that.

Yeah.

And so it's almost like a challenge to not use it at all.

No.

And I think, like, that's some of the fun with music photography is, like, you are in harsh conditions.

Like, there's a lot of movement, there's.

People, there's no light.

God forbid there's.

There's no light.

God forbid there's a mosh pit.

Like, there's just a lot of things that you have to be aware of.

But I think, like, that is the technical challenge.

And like, I would say, like, for any photographer who is learning to get better at their craft, like, the more you put yourself in extreme situations where the odds are stacked against you, you really start to learn, like, how to manage the settings on your camera, like, how to either take a shot or, like, start thinking about how am I going to, like, edit this in post in a way that, like, brings out, like, what I was going for.

But I think that's.

That's a lot of the fun.

Oh, absolutely.

That's how I really got to figure out how to use my camera.

Yeah.

Like, you learn how to do things when you are pressed to learn them, but, like, if there's no challenge, like, you just kind of probably stick with whatever it is that you've always been doing.

Exactly.

I think it's really funny that you're talking about all of this because I've been on stage and I've also been in the audience, and you don't ever notice a photographer unless you notice a photographer, like, performing.

You're like, oh, no.

Like, there's a flash in my face.

And I was once at a show where the photographer was, like, taking pictures of the band and I was kind of in the front row, and they were just, like, almost, like, pushing me over.

So.

It's crazy.

It is crazy.

I mean, like, I will go on the record for saying, like, flash is fine.

Like, if you need to use the flash, like, use your flash.

I don't want.

I don't want people to think that, like, I'm anti flash, but, like, I'm anti flash.

It helps to at least ask the band, like, hey, do you mind flash photography?

And, like, if they're like, no, we don't.

We love it, or, like, whatever, then, like, there's your permission.

Either get permission from the venue, getting permission from the band, otherwise, just, like, maybe err on the side of caution, maybe don't.

But don't fire your flash every two seconds.

That's just it.

And again, like, that goes back to, like, people are trying to enjoy the show.

Like, firing a flash once in a while, that's not gonna bother people.

But if you're, like, constantly, like, hitting that button, like, maybe think about, like, is this about you or is it about the band?

Yeah, that's a really great point.

Yeah.

And, yeah, I think it's really interesting because you're talking about, you know, talking about enjoying the show, but to enjoy the show, you also have to enjoy some ads.

And we'll be back in a flash.

Hi, everyone.

This is Kate Rogers with nights and weekends brought to you by the Sounds and Lunch Adore podcast network.

We're here with Fred McCoy, who is the owner of our local bar and venue Bar.

Bad ending.

I want to talk to you a little bit about the Rochester music scene.

There's a lot of strengths and we talked about a lot of those strengths here because this show is about, you know, change makers in the community.

I wanted to talk to you about what you think could possibly grow in Rochester.

What could be changed for the better.

What are we lacking?

What do we, you know, where can we improve?

Yeah, that's.

I will give my take.

Please don't hold me to any of this too much.

But just kind of based on what I've seen, there's a couple of things.

Like one I love, I love the original music scene here.

I think, I think it's second to none.

Especially if you're just thinking about how much original music is packed into the size of city that we are.

I think it's probably some of the best in the country.

Where, where I think it gets a little interesting is the support from the broader community.

Just not people necessarily who are a part of music, but the people who just like go enjoy music, listen to music in their daily lives.

I often find that cover bands probably get the greatest share of people who go out to see music.

So, you know, you'll have.

And cover bands are great.

Love Grateful Dead, you know, love Pink Floyd, love all of these wonderful bands.

But I would almost say like, I wish there was a way to convert some of the fandom that is honestly like fervent behind these cover bands to also having that same level of energy towards those creating original music.

Like, you know, what if nobody supported Pink Floyd when they released their first song?

Where would we be at?

It'd be a terrible society for one.

But we definitely, I think would stand to benefit from more local support for our actual local music scene.

And I think, you know, we've got a ton of venues.

I think it may be useful to even start thinking about like how do we create more flexible but also larger space venues.

I think we only have like a couple of like fairly large venues.

But, but the problem with a large venue is if you're not constantly booking shows, there's really no financial incentive to own a venue.

Like if I'm like, if I'm just purely based for shows and I'm not bringing in shows every day, then what am I doing?

It's just a waste of money.

So like, it would be interesting just to see like how, how the city could solve for situations like that through like multi use spaces rather than just like looking at larger spaces.

Only for music venues.

Yeah, I think.

Well, first let's, let's talk about COVID bands first.

I think, you know, that's, that's a really Great point.

You brought up Joey's laughing.

I.

I mean, I mean, this is.

This is a thing we've discussed.

We.

It's.

It's a controversial.

It's not controversial.

It's a.

It's a hot topic.

I think that depends on who you ask.

Okay.

I get.

I get a lot of negative feedback when I include cover bands on the sound.

And I think, you know, I think like, there's two worlds.

You're a musician, you're.

Is a.

If you're playing big band music and you're playing your trumpet in a classical band playing Mozart, you're, You're, you know, like, that's a cover band.

Okay, wait, wait.

The Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra is a cover?

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you.

But that's why I like Fred's perspective.

Because it's not.

There's no problem with that.

It's.

It's that people will rally to go see, you know, a Billy Joel cover band on a Friday night and not go see a local act they've never heard of.

And I think there's two different crowds there.

I think there's passion that comes out in different ways.

I think they need someone to say, oh, you, you love this Billy Joel cover band here, check out this local band that is in this genre or.

Start a new social media or like.

The drummer from that cover band is in an original band.

You should go check it out or something.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I think, like, we could do a lot of that work if we had more time, but I think that's something like, that needs.

It's awareness.

Right?

It's.

It's finding out what's actually happening, which is kind of our goal, but it's also making the associations with the types of music that would be relevant to what you like.

Yeah, I mean, no shade against cover bands.

We live in a capitalist society.

We gotta make money.

So, like, however you choose to make your bucks, like, that's entirely up to you.

Because playing music is hard.

It doesn't matter if you're playing original music or if you're playing a cover.

Like, it's technically challenging, it involves a lot of skill and everybody should be compensated for that equally.

Ideally.

I would definitely love again to see, like, how do you get original music in the hands of people that would probably enjoy the music, but otherwise either have no idea that these bands exist or just need a strong enough reason to go out and go see these bands?

Yeah, it's.

It's a topic we could probably discuss for A long time.

But I appreciate that, that perspective on it because I think a lot of the times it's like, boo cover bands.

But there's so much more and it's so much more complicated than that.

And I.

And like you said, playing music is hard and no one really gets paid.

And if you can, if you want to play and you have fun and you enjoy that and it brings you joy and it brings all the people there joy.

Like, I think that's the most important part, at least in my brain.

Yeah.

It's almost like there should be a festival just for original music.

Just think about that.

Mull that over in Rochester.

In Rochester.

I like that.

Get all the local venues to partner together.

Get some original music.

Just throw a big festival.

Share it with everybody.

We could call it Park AV Fest.

These are really good sound effects.

Yeah, I'm really enjoying using the board today.

I'm having a great time.

So the question that we ask every guest on the show is, who do you consider a local change maker besides yourself?

And that's.

We put you on the spot for a reason.

And because Fred was definitely gonna say himself when he answered, it's obviously to.

Me, guys getting to know tiny, tiny little bar.

That is a good.

Give me one second, I'm gonna think about this really quickly.

And we can come back to it too.

I mean, like, this is gonna sound like a cop out answer, but I think, like, everything like Richard's doing, like you guys are doing like behind the glass.

Like, I think it matters and you know, just like drawing in my own background, like, I started taking like street photography in New York City.

Do you know how many street photographers exist in New York City?

Like, no one will ever hear of 99.9% of the photographers in that city.

But, like, here you have a platform to connect these photographers with a broader community.

Like, that's massive.

And like the fact that you do it month over month and you're probably going to continue doing it year over year, I think like, that is change.

That's change, I think in a really valuable space in the art community.

Yeah.

And I think that's, you know, that's the message we're trying to get out as a network too, is you can build the community you want to be in.

Which is why when, you know, when Kate and Joey brought this, brought this to me, I was so excited.

Yo.

And getting to know YouTube was like, hey, we're.

This is building the community we want Rochester to have.

And talking about the ups and downs.

I love that and thank you so much for giving us the platform to do that.

That's so much fun.

It is a lot of fun.

Yeah.

So I.

I guess my last question for you is, what are you listening to right now in the local scene?

I listen.

Besides Croix, I've had the song Loser by Clayton Duffy on repeat.

So Clayton Duffy is based in, I believe Buffalo.

Played a show at the Rose and Crown, was supposed to be a full band.

Ended up playing as a solo set that evening.

But that song really stuck with me to the point where Spotify is like, hey, you've been listening to the song a lot.

I'm like, I know.

Yeah, definitely Clayton Duffy.

I probably am also listening to a lot of stuff by the Docent.

So I guess not really a local band.

They came through New York City, but they just happen to play in Rochester a lot.

But I love listening to you guys.

I love listening to Bad Bloom.

Definitely top of the list.

But I think I've had a lot of fun listening to Chores lately.

They're interesting because I like them when I first heard them.

Didn't listen to them for a while and then, you know, they released some new stuff and then I came back to them and then I just started listening to all of their stuff at large and I'm like, wow, like, these folks are like really talented and these lyrics slap.

So I've been enjoying that a lot.

Yeah, we just had Scar on the show.

Nice.

And he was telling us about, you know, I mean, I've been a Chores fan since day one, so that's a solid pick in my book too.

No, they're great.

Also, I get to hear them again on Thursday.

Oh, yeah.

The big release show.

Big release show.

So it's Thursday.

Is that October 24th?

Thursday, October 24th.

I'm just gonna say doors at seven, I think.

Music at eight.

I could be wrong.

Please, please look us up on Instagram and confirm those details.

Nice.

Also gonna say that it's a double release show.

Oh, yeah, Good call.

Comfy.

Also doing a release at that show there.

They've got Alex Northrup opening as a solo set.

All of them unbelievably talented.

It's going to be a great night.

And tickets are only $5, which is unheard of.

Unheard of.

I want to have a hundred dollar night at Barbada.

It's going to be a sloppy night, guys.

I want to have a $95 with your cover.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean this.

So I'm really glad we got to talk about this today.

And you'll learn more about a venue that is really trying to do their part and by caring about everything that they do means a lot to everybody.

So, yes, you can get food there, yes, you can get good cocktails there.

Yes, you can hear great music there.

And hear it in the best way you can because Fred did the work, which I appreciate.

And speaking of doing the work, make sure you check out all the other shows on the Lunchadore Podcast Network.

I'm going to bring up one of our other shows that's a little less local called Punches and Popcorn.

It's a martial arts movie podcast.

So if you're interested in the martial arts movies from, you know, the 60s, the 70s, and all the way up till now, take a listen.

The guys do an amazing job and they're just coming back from New York City Comic Con.

I'm sure they're going to have some great stories coming up very soon.

So thank you so much for listening.

We'll be back next time with more on the nights and the weekends.

This has been a presentation of the.

Lunch Roar Podcast Network.

I will lose myself tomorrow.

Crimson pain.

My heart explodes, My memory in a fire.

And someone will listen, at least for a short while.

That's Goth.

That's the Cure.

That's Robert Smith.