This podcast episode features entrepreneur Chris Joyce discussing his company Gusher, which helps founders build startups without needing external funding. He provides insight into leveraging "sweat equity" and performance-based partnerships to get ideas off the ground. Gusher is a facilitator for startups, without a big investment needed.

Key Discussion Points:

- Origins of Gusher after seeing barriers entrepreneurs faced in securing traditional VC funding

- Using "performance-based equity" model to build startups with expertise rather than money

- Recruiting team members who believe in the idea and will work in exchange for equity

- Case studies of companies launched successfully on Gusher platform

- Mindset shift around believing you can start a business without seed funding

- Resources Gusher provides like support, structure, applicant pool to staff your startup

Guest Bio:

Chris Joyce is a prolific entrepreneur who has founded 24 companies across high tech, consumer goods, health, and manufacturing. His innovative products have reached over 11,000 stores in 23 countries, with tech users in 148 countries worldwide. Recognizing that many great ideas and entrepreneurs were being overlooked for superficial reasons, Chris created Gusher to ensure that anyone with a groundbreaking idea has the opportunity to succeed. His mission is to democratize the startup process, allowing the market to judge the viability of ideas rather than traditional gatekeepers. Chris's extensive experience and commitment to innovation make him a compelling guest with invaluable insights into entrepreneurship.

Company Bio:

Gusher democratizes the startup process, enabling entrepreneurs to launch ventures without traditional investors or capital. Using performance-based equity, Gusher connects founders with skilled collaborators, allowing ideas to come to life across various industries, including technology, media, health, design, finance, and gaming. By eliminating traditional barriers, Gusher empowers innovative ideas to succeed based on their merit in the market.

Quotes:

"I had to contact more than 500 food chemists that told me it couldn't be done. It shouldn't be done. It wouldn't be done. I had PhDs telling me to go F myself." (00:15:12)

Links Mentioned:

Gusher Website

Beefy Marketing

Small Business Origins Website

John Kelley's Links

Wingman (Sponsor)

[00:00:06] John Kelley: I love an origin story.

[00:00:10] Outro: Subscribe

[00:00:13] 5: They're gonna love it.

[00:00:17] Chris Joyce: Yeah.

[00:00:19] Chris Joyce: Welcome back to another episode of small business origins.

[00:00:29] Chris Joyce: You're tuned in.

[00:00:31] Chris Joyce: We're looking for entrepreneurs that have a story to tell.

[00:00:38] Chris Joyce: We've already gotten into it before the show started.

[00:00:41] Chris Joyce: But from Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania, I've got Chris Joyce with Gusher.

[00:00:47] 6: Hey, John.

[00:00:49] Chris Joyce: Man, it is our pleasure as always.

[00:00:53] Chris Joyce: Just I can tell from our quick chat before we got started.

[00:01:00] Chris Joyce: And today's icebreaker question is what do you call your grandparents?

[00:01:06] 6: That's number 1.

[00:01:09] 6: used to call my my grandma grandma.

[00:01:13] 6: Never and they were never in my world.

[00:01:18] Chris Joyce: Yeah.

[00:01:22] Chris Joyce: Right?

[00:01:23] Chris Joyce: Yeah.

[00:01:25] Chris Joyce: And I mean, unfortunately, I share the same thing with you.

[00:01:33] Chris Joyce: My maternal grandfather has passed away, and then both of my grandparents on my father's side have passed away.

[00:01:41] Chris Joyce: You know, I had, my grandma Arlene, my grandpa Kelly, my grandma Jean, but we also call my grandma Jean Nana.

[00:01:49] Chris Joyce: You know, and then my kids would call, like, my aunt Rhonda.

[00:01:54] Chris Joyce: My mother was called by all of her grandchildren, Momo.

[00:02:00] Chris Joyce: We got these southern draws.

[00:02:04] Chris Joyce: That's for sure.

[00:02:15] 6: They say mum mum, and they say da.

[00:02:21] 6: So they refer as mum mum and da.

[00:02:25] Chris Joyce: It's so interesting how you can find out about other cultures just by what they call the people related to them.

[00:02:35] Chris Joyce: My sister, is called John by all of my kids, and, you know, it's it's great, man.

[00:02:42] Chris Joyce: It feels special.

[00:02:51] Chris Joyce: So I wanted to hop into that, but we're here to talk about you, Chris.

[00:02:54] Chris Joyce: So where did you come from?

[00:02:57] Chris Joyce: What I ask everyone is, what's your origin story?

[00:03:01] 6: Sure.

[00:03:05] 6: I always say that I in the middle of farm fields and, factories basically near an air force base.

[00:03:14] 6: I started, literally selling I don't know if if anybody knows about it, but, like, burpee seeds, the seeds to, like, grow watermelons and corn and and sunflowers and all that.

[00:03:26] 6: That was literally my first, quote, unquote, business, back from being a kid.

[00:03:33] 6: I mean, I've done my own businesses, my own deals, pretty much ever since, And that was taking me in

[00:03:41] Chris Joyce: So So so you started there.

[00:03:50] 6: Well, it's funny because you were actually talking about your friend, with me in the beginning when, when we were off the air.

[00:03:59] 6: I have a friend named Brent, in Ohio also, and and we still do business to this day.

[00:04:11] 6: And we didn't go ahead and skip school to party or drink or do whatever else.

[00:04:23] 6: So we did, go into these senior core of retired executives and quite literally write business plans.

[00:04:33] 6: So we started writing business plans at an early age.

[00:04:42] 6: And from there, I basically you know, I had some businesses as a teenager, you know, the standard type of stuff.

[00:04:52] 6: But from then on out, I just started my own deals.

[00:04:57] 6: Everything from business brokerage to technical audio text companies, to manufacturing, to SaaS, Fintech, ARVR.

[00:05:08] 6: My products have been sold all across the globe in more than 11,000 stores, and I've got a couple patents out there.

[00:05:20] 6: So I've done an extensive amount of businesses or a wide variety of businesses.

[00:05:42] Chris Joyce: I like the challenge.

[00:05:52] 6: Yeah.

[00:05:55] 6: So I'll view it as alright.

[00:06:01] 6: I hate it also.

[00:06:03] 6: I don't even like doing the same industry twice.

[00:06:09] 6: But I almost view it as, you trying these different things or wanting to do different things.

[00:06:24] 6: Well, these days, you can't it's very hard to do that.

[00:06:34] 6: So fundamentally, whatever you create is going to be different.

[00:06:48] Chris Joyce: We've talked about this on several podcasts where, you know, like partnerships often work out pretty well because I say often work out Kelley.

[00:07:02] Chris Joyce: One, that's a dreamer.

[00:07:04] Chris Joyce: They wanna do it.

[00:07:09] Chris Joyce: And then on the other side, you have that very logical thinker who's analytical, who knows how to establish a business, who knows how to do certain parts of the business.

[00:07:20] Chris Joyce: Andrew and I's company is I'm the guy that has the operational experience.

[00:07:26] Chris Joyce: He's the guy that knows how to do the marketing.

[00:07:32] Chris Joyce: And he's the guy that has that business acumen.

[00:07:38] Chris Joyce: And I think it kinda plays into Gusher because with Gusher, I know you were telling me that this is kind of a thing where you can have that dream and not necessarily the idea to execute it.

[00:07:59] Chris Joyce: So let's just start with what is Gusher and why should we, you know, be talking to you as a potential, I dare to say, partner to kinda help us to bring this into reality?

[00:08:11] 6: Definitely.

[00:08:20] 6: I I was literally at a an event in Washington DC at a venture capital meeting, And there were certain entrepreneurs that, well, they didn't look like everyone else.

[00:08:31] 6: They didn't attend Stanford University and wear hoodies.

[00:08:44] 6: So, you know, what is Gusher?

[00:08:47] 6: Well, when I met these guys, there was a and women actually, Kelley across the spectrum.

[00:09:00] 6: Now I've always started my businesses fundamentally different.

[00:09:17] 6: I'd never needed anything.

[00:09:22] 6: I said, hey.

[00:09:30] 6: And so our process is using something called performance based equity.

[00:09:47] 6: And then how would you build your company?

[00:09:52] 6: Because what happens is that's done on Gusher all day every day.

[00:10:02] 6: So instead of needing all that all that cost there to go ahead and start up, to go ahead and cover the expertise to solve that problem or to build the company, You're bringing in people as partners to help build that company from the very beginning, and that's extremely important.

[00:10:17] 6: You don't need anything.

[00:10:22] 6: And so, you know, I never ask anybody for a cent.

[00:10:26] 6: Yes.

[00:10:30] 6: Gusher itself is a performance based equity player.

[00:10:36] 6: That's it.

[00:10:50] Chris Joyce: Yep.

[00:10:53] 6: Our numbers work out to about the following.

[00:11:01] 6: So they don't necessarily even have a solution.

[00:11:06] 6: And the point of going ahead and putting that team together is to solve that problem.

[00:11:12] 6: It's for the founder to really get the right people to solve that problem and get it out the door in terms of a productive way to be self sustaining.

[00:11:25] 6: So typically what happens is they may have actually raised around a venture capital, or they may have raised a round of seed funding or a friends and family around.

[00:11:49] 6: And so what I say to all technical companies, you'll like this because it serves your purpose.

[00:12:03] 6: You're not there sitting there solving this problem.

[00:12:19] 6: And that's really what people do ask backwards.

[00:12:24] Chris Joyce: I mean, say it again for the people in the back.

[00:12:30] Chris Joyce: I mean, without it, where's your company John to go?

[00:12:41] Chris Joyce: You know, talking about, for instance, companies that sell products like retailers.

[00:12:46] Chris Joyce: Are you not looking for agencies that provide services?

[00:12:53] 6: No.

[00:12:54] 6: We we're really market agnostic.

[00:12:58] 6: So we have everything from dog food companies to textiles, to SaaS, Fintech, AR, VR, AI, gaming, PropTech.

[00:13:06] 6: We've got it.

[00:13:10] 6: The real main thing is the following.

[00:13:19] 6: The the main point about Gusher is and we have a saying about it.

[00:13:25] 6: 1 plus one equals done.

[00:13:27] 6: That when you're recruiting your team, when you're putting your team together, bringing on one person for performance based equity, that's the key metric.

[00:13:23] 6: 1 plus one doesn't equal 2.

[00:13:26] 6: What do we mean by that?

[00:13:35] 6: If a founder is able to do that, those are the companies, those are the 80% that go on to succeed, that become self sustaining, that are able to grow.

[00:14:00] 6: So it's basically a form of market validation.

[00:14:05] 6: If not, it dies there right in the beginning as it should.

[00:14:10] Chris Joyce: That's a hard pill to swallow, I think, for some people.

[00:14:22] Chris Joyce: And then you're like, alright, so how would we actually do this?

[00:14:27] Chris Joyce: Next idea.

[00:14:28] Outro: go on to somebody else.

[00:14:31] Chris Joyce: What are you talking about?

[00:14:33] 6: But here, you know, I look at it somewhat maybe differently.

[00:14:38] 6: So if I get pushed back on an idea, that's not necessarily a red flag.

[00:14:45] 6: I I had a company that grew very, very large.

[00:14:51] 6: It was a low carb manufacturing company.

[00:14:56] Outro: of thing.

[00:14:57] 6: first started that company, I was basically penniless at the time.

[00:15:06] 6: And I had to contact more than 500 food chemists that told me it couldn't be done.

[00:15:13] 6: It wouldn't be done.

[00:15:17] 6: And each time I heard that, I was like, no.

[00:15:20] 6: They're wrong.

[00:15:29] 6: I'm not the science.

[00:15:31] 6: I I don't know that.

[00:15:37] 6: So it's the resilience of the individuals to go ahead and take it many times, the negative that really decides whether an idea will go ahead and fly.

[00:15:52] 6: It morphs into something else.

[00:16:00] Chris Joyce: Problem solving is the key to entrepreneurship.

[00:16:12] Chris Joyce: I mean, just the idea alone that you came up with as a company should have some problem, as you said, that it's solving.

[00:16:20] Chris Joyce: And and you're right.

[00:16:26] Chris Joyce: But I love the fact that most of the people that we have on the show absolutely come from that where they were told no by so many people.

[00:16:40] Chris Joyce: So if I have one of these ideas and I'm like, you know what?

[00:16:46] Chris Joyce: What does the application process look like to speak with you?

[00:16:54] 6: Well, here's the thing.

[00:16:58] 6: So that's number 1.

[00:17:01] 6: A person just joins Gosher, you're in Gosher.

[00:17:08] 6: And so our system automatically walks a founder through or a potential founder through.

[00:17:15] 6: So we jump in and say, hey.

[00:17:18] 6: Figure out the best ways to present it.

[00:17:24] 6: Usually, it takes an hour, 2, 3 hours depending upon the founder, and then they're up and running.

[00:17:30] 6: And then based upon what happens in the marketplace, which is the way it should be, either they start getting applicants, they start getting people where their idea is resonating with somebody or it doesn't.

[00:17:48] 6: There have been companies that I said, and I've got a j score rating, an internal rating of these 10 things, that we track companies on.

[00:17:57] 6: But we go ahead and track them, and there have been so many instances of stuff that I thought, this is dead on arrival.

[00:18:05] 6: Nothing.

[00:18:06] 6: And then sure enough, I'm like, holy Chris, they got a team.

[00:18:11] 6: Holy crap, they got sales.

[00:18:15] 6: And I don't know if you can see it.

[00:18:20] 6: You know?

[00:18:25] Chris Joyce: So is this kind of like a, a crowdfunding of people willing to buy into your idea?

[00:18:32] 6: Okay.

[00:18:34] 6: What it is is, like let me give an example.

[00:18:39] 6: So this is, pharmacological smooch.

[00:18:44] 6: It's kind of a really neat neat thing.

[00:18:55] 6: He needed to have a chief marketing officer to go ahead and identify the target markets and personas.

[00:19:07] 6: He needed to have a food scientist, a food Chris, to make sure as the formulation scaled up, they wouldn't run into any problems, which they did.

[00:19:17] 6: He needed to have, you know, sales validation and the ability to penetrate, these other things there with biz dev.

[00:19:31] 6: So what he did was put together this complete team from the very beginning, and then the product leapfrogged generations.

[00:19:50] Chris Joyce: I realized I I posed that question completely wrong.

[00:19:54] Chris Joyce: I meant to say not from an not from an equity or financial standpoint, but from a buy in of, you know, I'm good at marketing.

[00:20:02] Chris Joyce: Someone comes up with this idea, and I'm like, I know how to market this product.

[00:20:09] Chris Joyce: So you're kind of crowdsourcing people to work in your business, basically.

[00:20:17] Chris Joyce: We'll come in and be the financial partner for that, performance based equity.

[00:20:22] 6: Well, what we do is just provide the structure.

[00:20:26] 6: We we had a company on we have a company, a very success story.

[00:20:32] 6: So I'll I'll save you the long story, because of time, but Happy Howell went ahead.

[00:20:38] 6: And he had a really sick dog, and, you know, he took it to the veterinarian.

[00:20:46] 6: Dog kept dying.

[00:20:51] 6: He went ahead and put his dog on it.

[00:20:58] 6: When he first came into Gusher, he didn't listen to our process and how to do it.

[00:21:06] 6: They have managed 50,000,000, 100,000,000, 200,000,000 budgets.

[00:21:11] 6: You have their products on your shelf.

[00:21:15] 6: 6 weeks later, 7 weeks later, the whole company imploded.

[00:21:30] 6: They just got all these big chain contracts and everything else.

[00:21:36] 6: The first team did not.

[00:21:40] 6: It's a dog food company.

[00:21:48] Chris Joyce: They know things about dog food?

[00:21:51] 6: They Okay?

[00:21:53] 6: Okay.

[00:21:54] 6: They don't have cats.

[00:21:56] 6: Okay.

[00:21:58] 6: They're dog parents.

[00:22:01] 6: They've been freed, lived, and pooped out the market.

[00:22:06] 6: Though every last member, if you take a look at his pitch deck, of his team has a dog.

[00:22:19] 6: Same type of thing.

[00:22:21] 6: That's called the vested interest market, the VIM.

[00:22:31] 6: And that's what we go ahead and take the founders through how to do.

[00:22:36] Chris Joyce: Look.

[00:22:40] Chris Joyce: Okay?

[00:22:42] Chris Joyce: I I love when I get these questions on the show, but 100%.

[00:22:47] Chris Joyce: I mean, I said they understand dog food.

[00:22:51] Chris Joyce: You know?

[00:22:52] Chris Joyce: No.

[00:22:53] Chris Joyce: I think that there's at least a good chunk of listeners who are either business owners currently or they are someone who would like to own a business.

[00:23:17] Chris Joyce: So I'm just trying to think for the person that's sitting there listening right now saying, okay.

[00:23:24] Chris Joyce: And I hope that they go to our show notes, click your link, and find out more about you.

[00:23:40] Chris Joyce: How much am I going to have to pay you?

[00:23:45] 6: But Yeah.

[00:23:53] Chris Joyce: You know, how do I kind of get that across to that listener?

[00:23:56] 6: Think of it this way.

[00:23:58] 6: It's a straight equity position.

[00:24:07] 6: If you're not, we get nothing.

[00:24:15] 6: Same thing with your teammates.

[00:24:19] 6: It's a 5% equity position, but it's not granted immediately, and it's only granted if the company succeeds on Gusher.

[00:24:28] 6: Zippo nada.

[00:24:31] 6: You've gotta pay x amount per hour or x amount per month or, hey.

[00:24:36] 6: Scusher doesn't even have, like, a merchant account.

[00:24:42] 6: We accept equity.

[00:24:45] 6: That's all we have in ownership in.

[00:24:49] Chris Joyce: with I think it's a great it's a great way to kind of do business because, you know, it does free up.

[00:24:57] Chris Joyce: I love it.

[00:24:59] Chris Joyce: If they like business stories, surely they like Shark Tank.

[00:25:11] Chris Joyce: You know?

[00:25:18] Chris Joyce: And I know that sounds strange to some people where they're like, how's $200,000 a small chunk of change?

[00:25:27] Chris Joyce: $200,000 should be nothing for them after year 1 or year 2.

[00:25:36] 6: Well, our our go well, Shark Tank is one thing.

[00:25:41] 6: Shark Tank, it's great entertainment.

[00:25:44] 6: So meaning that most of the time, we we would call that, basically parasitic fishing, or what were the birds that that go ahead?

[00:25:54] 6: Those types of deals, usually tank a company and leave the founder upside down the way they're structured on TV.

[00:26:07] 6: I one of my attorney friends is a representation on that show, so I know the numbers that actually do go through.

[00:26:14] 6: So they're very, very low.

[00:26:16] 6: On the other side, you have to think of it this way.

[00:26:25] 6: Our goal Kelley and we don't make in our own eyes a damn penny on a deal until that company is able to really reach the 10,000,000 in valuation.

[00:26:34] 6: So if a company goes ahead and and they're doing a quarter million revenue or half a 1000000 or a 1000000, that's a great lifestyle business.

[00:26:48] 6: But in order for it to really have impact, you have to have something that's generating at least 10,000,000 after a couple years and really growing rapidly after that, in order to move the needle on us.

[00:27:05] 6: I need money to get a business started.

[00:27:09] 6: 0.

[00:27:10] 6: You know, I get that there's a desperation there and that you may not see that, but you only don't see that because you haven't been shown that.

[00:27:19] 6: We show them step by step how to do it.

[00:27:23] 6: It just takes time.

[00:27:31] Chris Joyce: Yeah.

[00:27:41] Chris Joyce: You know, they were digital nomads.

[00:27:47] Chris Joyce: Right?

[00:27:47] Chris Joyce: I've got kids, all these things.

[00:27:51] Chris Joyce: I said, well, because I'm married.

[00:27:53] Chris Joyce: And she was like, you've been trained to think this way since you were born that a home is security.

[00:27:59] Chris Joyce: But what better way to teach your children besides homeschooling them going across the country, viewing these historical places that they're learning about and actually taking part in it versus being at home all the time and learning about it from a textbook or online.

[00:28:17] Chris Joyce: That's the way we've been trained.

[00:28:23] Chris Joyce: I'm 34 years old, almost 30 5.

[00:28:32] Chris Joyce: I'm an everyday man, and I've got things that I've understood from being in certain industries.

[00:28:49] Chris Joyce: And it sounds like to me, what you're doing is turning that upside down and saying, screw that.

[00:28:54] Chris Joyce: You don't need to have money first.

[00:29:04] Chris Joyce: You need you don't have to worry about the money side of it.

[00:29:10] Chris Joyce: And talk about it.

[00:29:15] Chris Joyce: Because it does take money to start a business.

[00:29:17] 6: that sound doesn't.

[00:29:20] Chris Joyce: See, maybe I'm wrong.

[00:29:22] 6: Listen.

[00:29:33] 6: Okay?

[00:29:35] 6: When it when it's pharmacological, that started this company, you know, he doesn't have a pot to piss in.

[00:29:48] 6: A graduate student, you know, struggling to pay rent in Philadelphia, and he wanted to do this idea.

[00:29:54] 6: Well, in order to do that idea, Matt would have either been had the have gotten capital from a VC, which the odds are 1 in 700 to 1 in 5000, very, very low.

[00:30:15] 6: You know?

[00:30:19] 6: What what does what is the major cost?

[00:30:22] 6: Let's say you had a 1,000,000, $2,000,000.

[00:30:30] 6: And I don't care what the industry is.

[00:30:37] Chris Joyce: Building I mean, for me, personally, what I think of first is establishing the company LLCs, the documents formation, and then going into the marketing side website, you know, that kind of stuff.

[00:30:49] 6: But that's because you're starting off as a solopreneur that's gonna do everything.

[00:30:54] 6: If I'm starting a business, my number one cost is literally labor.

[00:31:01] 6: It's Oh,

[00:31:05] 6: So by bringing people on for performance based equity, the labor cost is basically eliminated, but it's exchanged for equity.

[00:31:16] 6: If you got $2,000,000 from a venture capitalist, and he owns 20% of your company with a 10,000,000 valuation of it, post money valuation afterwards, What are you gonna use that 2,000,000 on?

[00:31:33] 6: You're gonna be using it on the CMO to go ahead and figure out the marketing plan.

[00:31:42] 6: Well, guess what?

[00:31:55] 6: That's 1 in 5,000.

[00:32:03] 6: And so usually there comes a time Kelley quickly, once they can bring that first person on into their team, they're like, oh my god.

[00:32:12] 6: So they may think it's BS to begin with, but the second they get that first person, oh, then Chris is god and Gusher is god.

[00:32:21] Chris Joyce: I don't I don't think it's BS, but you can absolutely see where the things that are beat into our heads, man.

[00:32:31] Chris Joyce: So it's not even that Gusher's providing any type of money or financial Right.

[00:32:37] Chris Joyce: Right?

[00:32:42] 6: or or the, applicant's phones or Right.

[00:32:46] Chris Joyce: But the goal the thing here is is that you're not saying, we love the idea.

[00:32:51] Chris Joyce: Here's $2,000,000 make it happen.

[00:32:56] Chris Joyce: For me.

[00:32:59] Chris Joyce: You know, like Outro Flask, I had Travis on the show.

[00:33:11] Chris Joyce: And your point is is that if I've got a really good new tumbler I wanna create and this person buys into it, their sweat equity is going to be, I can develop that product for you, and I have a source that can build it for us.

[00:33:29] 6: Listen.

[00:33:32] 6: Okay?

[00:33:48] 6: Alright?

[00:33:52] 6: There's plenty of manufacturing in the US.

[00:33:57] 6: Contrary to belief, we've got an eff load of manufacturing here.

[00:34:03] 6: So electronics, high end electronics companies, we've created from the ground up using nothing.

[00:34:10] 6: Where do you get that first order from?

[00:34:13] 6: If you go ahead and join Gusher, we sit down and actually go over that with you and how to do it.

[00:34:26] 6: You need us in, CES, to go ahead and close, the ex chairman of well, I can't say the bank anymore because they had issues recently, to invest in your, in your company.

[00:34:38] 6: So, you know, we help you every step of the way, but you don't need money.

[00:34:44] 6: 0.

[00:34:46] Chris Joyce: Yeah.

[00:34:56] Chris Joyce: So

[00:34:59] 6: It's so every somebody out there controls every resource or every service or whatever it is that you need.

[00:35:08] 6: Now imagine that person is your best friend.

[00:35:18] 6: Well, guess what?

[00:35:24] 6: Alright?

[00:35:27] 6: So we just simply teach founders how to do that, how to go about it.

[00:35:31] Chris Joyce: This is amazing.

[00:35:35] Chris Joyce: Like, where do I need to go to find out more and learn from you?

[00:35:38] 6: You just go to Gusher.

[00:35:41] 6: We operate in our own world.

[00:35:48] 6: And, again, it doesn't cost anything.

[00:35:51] 6: And if you, need to schedule an appointment with me, I'll find you.

[00:35:54] 6: But I'm very, very reachable, and all our people are very, very helpful.

[00:36:04] Chris Joyce: Is it a good idea for me to join up if I don't necessarily have a company I wanna start or a product I wanna start, but I think that I could be a good addition to someone's team?

[00:36:13] 6: Absolutely.

[00:36:16] 6: It it just depends on what you do and what you're looking, to go ahead and be a part of.

[00:36:30] 6: If you look at that idea and you say, you know what?

[00:36:34] 6: I wanna make an impact in a big way, then you join it.

[00:36:41] 6: Transactional teams don't typically work.

[00:36:51] 6: Those are the teams that and companies that work.

[00:36:54] Chris Joyce: Can we all agree that any type of transactional business should just be eradicated from the world?

[00:37:02] Chris Joyce: And I'm saying that from an honest perspective of I don't do sales transactionally.

[00:37:10] Chris Joyce: I wanna know who you are.

[00:37:12] Chris Joyce: And I wanna know if you can be a benefit to me and if I can be a benefit to you.

[00:37:17] Chris Joyce: And now don't get me wrong, it is very transactional.

[00:37:22] Chris Joyce: You could pay for my service.

[00:37:24] Chris Joyce: Whatever the case may be.

[00:37:32] Chris Joyce: So, yeah, let's get rid of transactional based business all the way around, man.

[00:37:36] 6: But but that comes from a very old phrase in a way that, you know, don't take it personal.

[00:37:41] 6: You know?

[00:37:48] 6: I take it personally.

[00:37:54] 6: To me, they're family.

[00:37:59] 6: His family member, his brother was actually dying in the hospital.

[00:38:03] 6: He calls me, because literally, we talk and we discuss everything.

[00:38:14] 6: And sometimes you have dysfunction, just like any other family, but it's definitely not transactional.

[00:38:26] Chris Joyce: Yeah.

[00:38:28] Chris Joyce: I, I was just joking yesterday about because, you know, I made some comment or did something to Andrew and I was like, oh, I'm a be, oh, I was gonna be written up for eating his cookie at lunch yesterday.

[00:38:37] Chris Joyce: And, I don't eat very many cookies.

[00:38:45] Chris Joyce: But, so I made that Joyce, and I was like, yeah.

[00:38:50] Chris Joyce: Excuse me.

[00:38:55] Chris Joyce: We don't have to have that corporate structure of, yes, there's a handbook.

[00:39:00] Chris Joyce: And, absolutely, if he needed to do something, he could do that to put it Intro writing to terminate me or whatever he needed to do, but we'll never get to that point.

[00:39:10] Chris Joyce: If he doesn't like something I do, we're gonna talk about it as friends, as, you know, basically brothers at this point.

[00:39:17] Chris Joyce: And if I'm wrong and I I can't get over it, then I'm going to leave and say, hey.

[00:39:24] Chris Joyce: Like, I'm gone.

[00:39:25] Chris Joyce: I get it.

[00:39:26] Chris Joyce: There we don't need that transaction of you're my employee.

[00:39:31] Chris Joyce: Do as I say.

[00:39:32] Chris Joyce: Do all this.

[00:39:34] Chris Joyce: We're in this together.

[00:39:39] 6: And and that goes with the size of company.

[00:39:43] 6: That's why I like entrepreneurial companies.

[00:39:47] 6: The second they become a bureaucracy and have to have that in place for certain legal reasons, yeah, I lose all interest.

[00:39:56] 6: You know?

[00:39:58] Chris Joyce: Dude, what a hell of a conversation, man.

[00:40:01] Chris Joyce: Sure.

[00:40:07] Chris Joyce: So hopefully, we'll drive some of our listeners over to check out Gusher.

[00:40:07] Chris Joyce: So hopefully, we'll drive some of our listeners over to check out Gusher.

[00:40:17] 6: Thanks for having me, John.

[00:40:20] Chris Joyce: Absolutely listeners.

[00:40:25] Chris Joyce: What a great episode, a lot of stuff to unpack there.

[00:40:32] Chris Joyce: All you have to do is go to www.smallbusinessorigin .com to check out everything you want about the show.

[00:40:40] Chris Joyce: I'll create a blog post for it.

[00:40:49] Chris Joyce: But that's it for us.

[00:40:54] Chris Joyce: I hope you check us out on the next one next Thursday as we release every single episode every Thursday, we've got another great company and entrepreneur for you on those shows.

[00:41:04] Chris Joyce: Stay beefy, my friends.

[00:41:12] John Kelley: I love an origin story.

[00:41:14] Outro: what you just heard, leave us a review, subscribe,

[00:41:18] Chris Joyce: Guys, check this out.

[00:41:20] 5: You're gonna love it.