It’s one thing to create a document with declarations about who you are being in the world. It’s quite another to first do the deep work that uncovers the beliefs and judgments that have driven past behavior. Lisa Catto has been doing that kind of work on herself since reading The Ultimate Coach—and she continues to evolve every day as a result.

In this conversation with host Meredith Bell, Lisa describes how she’s developed habits around acknowledgements and gratitude. She considers herself a work in progress, and you’ll be inspired by her willingness to receive feedback graciously, without the need to defend or justify her behavior, in the spirit of learning and growing.

About the Guest:

Lisa Catto is known as The Business Catalyst. She’s acknowledged as a thought leader in the field of business growth using automation for small business and has won multiple awards for her work. Lisa has been a business owner since the early 1990’s, with broad experience and expertise in both business and marketing.

In the Being community, Lisa serves on the Leadership Team and has been invaluable in setting up systems and automation for Zoom calls, landing pages, and weekly emails. She’s also one of the administrators for The Ultimate Coach Facebook Group.

https://thebusinesscatalyst.co.uk/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lcatto/

About the Host:

Meredith Bell is the Co-founder and President of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes software tools and books that help people build strong relationships at work and at home.

Meredith is an expert in leader and team communications, the author of three books, and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast. She co-authored her latest books, Connect with Your Team: Mastering the Top 10 Communication Skills, and Peer Coaching Made Simple, with her business partner, Dr. Dennis Coates. In them, Meredith and Denny provide how-to guides for improving communication skills and serving as a peer coach to someone else.

Meredith is also The Heart-centered Connector. One of her favorite ways of BEING in the world is to introduce people who can benefit from knowing each other.

https://growstrongleaders.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredithmbell

The Ultimate Coach Resources



https://theultimatecoachbook.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theultimatecoach

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theultimatecoachbook

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14048056

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheUltimateCoachBook

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Welcome to The Ultimate Coach podcast conversations from being inspired by the book, The Ultimate coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan Thompson. Join us each week with the intention of expanding your state of being, and your experience will be remarkable. Remember, this is a podcast about be. It is a podcast about you. To explore more deeply, visit the ultimate Coach book.com. Now, enjoy today's conversation from being

welcome to another episode of The Ultimate coach podcast. I am one of your hosts, Meredith bell. And I'm very excited to have as my guest today, Lisa Catto. Lisa, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Meredith, it's lovely to be here.

Well, I'm just so looking forward to this conversation, because you've been very active in the ultimate coach, or what we call the being community on Facebook. And many of our listeners are probably very familiar with the work that you do. A lot of it is behind the scenes, such as the sending out of the weekly digest email. You're also a member of the leadership team, where you're really involved in guiding the direction of this community. So it's going to be fun today, I think to talk about your role there, as well as the impact that your involvement with that community and with the book have had on what you do in who you're being in the world today. So why don't we kick off by starting about how you first learned about Steve Hardison?

Well, I first learned about Steve Hardison. Back in around, I think it must have been about 2017, when a very good friend of mine called Jeff mask, who is the younger brother of cleat mask, who is mentioned in the book had asked me to watch a video TBO Li, T NFL, and at the time, unknown to me, it was I didn't know anything about Steven, at this point, or what this video was about, or what Bing was about and just kind of came at it cold, I was coaching with Jeff actually, at the time, Jeff had just created his mask, group coaching, which was mindset, actions, spirituality, and kindness. And he'd had this epiphany and he created this group, we were the only group that ever coached with Jeff, because after a year, he decided to go on one on one coaching, but all of us that were in that group are still very close, and very good friends today. And as part of that, he had us he asked us to watch the TBL it NFL video. And, you know, it's it's a different kind of Steve, when you you know, when you've got the context of the book, and you know, where kind of TBL it NFL fits in. As a standalone thing, it's a different experience. So I was already have a mindset around being and who I'm being and how I'm being and different beings that I have, depending on who's in my immediate environment, from my mother, to my children to work colleagues and annoying siblings. So in that respect, I was in the right place. So if you fast forward a couple of years to beginning of 2022 I'm still very good friends with everyone in the group. One of the girls that was in the group with me then who's also on the leadership team of the being movement now. I was much good, ah, the book, go get this book, The Ultimate coach, but and I thought she was nuts, you know, but she's one of my closest friends. So I kind of went with it. So I went and got the book and listen to the book, what I actually read the book, I've listened to the book and read the book since more than once. And it was the ultimate coach book, obviously. And you know, from there was the journey, a much deeper journey around being a whole different direction. And that's how I came to know Steve. So there was a kind of a soft introduction, shall we say back in 2017. And then it went much more full velocity as of the post the book publication.

And so talk a little bit about what your role is now on the leadership team and what the vision is a I'd like to have you share that because I think it's so be very interesting for the members of the community to have a sense that there's a bigger purpose at work here, not just the day to day operation of what's going on, let's say in the Facebook group, or one of the other groups they might be belonging to,

um, oh, so about a year, just over a year ago, which was also plate mass 50th birthday. So I know plates, as I have been involved with keep, since about 2012, when I became a key partner, and my world, my universe, my business is all focused around being an automation agency. So that's what I do, and keepers been at the center of my universe for a very, very long time. So I was out in Arizona at the keep offices, and it was close to 50th. And I was very thrilled about the book. And it was just before the ultimate experience London edition, which I actually came back from Arizona, for. And I was on Facebook Messenger, I think with Steve, because it was kind of late birthday. And I was seeing Steve and this is you know, anyone that does anything within systems and operations, as their job will see the frustrations when people don't use systems and operations. So when Steve, at the beginning of the journey was gonna ask me, you put your email address and message me and I'll send you an audio and all the rest of it, I met Steve, let me run a copy of keep for the movement, in order that we can really give people a great experience and you know, carry on the journey beyond you getting someone's email and sending them an audio. But my business is framed around the design and creation of an ideal customer journey. So that the whole customer experience for me is, is what I breathe, and live day to day. So as a result of that I was introduced to Eric Koloff home. And as a result of that, we have been as a team, a wider team and a more inner team now working on creating a great viewing experience for people that read the book so they can really have a depth to their world. I don't know about you. But I find that not everybody in my world has always done this work, whether it's friends, family, or colleagues, and to be part of a community of people who just kind of get it with no necessary explanation is a really comfortable place to be with language and ideas and not having people roll their eyes and think that you're slightly nuts. Which I don't mind, but it's just a really nice space just to kind of be around people that that don't that don't do that, if you know what I mean. So absolutely. Working with Eric and Dave and Tiffany, we meet weekly, I am at the moment responsible for all of the systems and operations that are currently going on in the Bing movement. So whether that's the landing pages or getting zoom links out to people or the weekly digest or I'm the Geek on the teeth. So together we're working, there's a wider team as well as you know of people you know, like Cordelia and Sarah 90 and Matt Evans and Fiona also lots of lots of other people and apologies for those that I haven't mentioned by name, who are all invested and round down obviously, who did Mumbai and Rafa everybody who invested in how they can give back to the world of being to help people on their journey, feel supported, and create this community and give it direction so that we can touch as many of the 7 billion souls on the planet as we possibly can.

I love that big goal, because and what you said about the community and having common language, common terminology, the ability to share their ideas, experiences that other people might not understand that aren't a part of that, that framework. So I'm very excited to see what is going to be coming out of this immediate leadership team and all the other folks that are involved with it, because the possibilities, as we know are unlimited. So I would like to zoom in now more closely on your own personal experience, and thinking about when you read the book, what were some of the either chapters or passages that were really spoke to you and talk about why that was.

Um, there's there's one that always springs to mind which is kind of story of an I have the memory of a goldfish. So a lot of it is just pictures in my head of just I think he was running through the desert doing one of his marathons, which he is known for, and the man is nuts. Let's face it. So he's in good company. And it was the repeating of his declaration, it's that when you when you you've got nothing left in the tank, and you think you can go no further is, is bringing back to front of mind. Who, who you're showing up as in the world who you're declaring yourself as being so that you can, it will, which gives you that extra energy, suddenly, you've just you rediscover, and you find the energy as to why you're doing something. And for me that has always, whenever I feel like I'm flagging, I just have this picture of Korean running through the desert, for some reason, it's at nighttime, I can't remember if it was in the story or not. And, you know, just that, coming back to your document, coming back to your declarations, when you're feeling like you're off center has been a very powerful tool for me.

Yeah, that that really struck me as well. There are so many really well crafted stories in the book that to me, you can carry with you and serve as an inspiration. So I'm assuming, based on the impact that Koran talking about his own document and drawing strength from his individual declarations, what was the process like for you, in creating your own document?

Well, for me, my document is living, I don't think it's created. It's not, it's never fully created, because it's always growing and living and adapting depending on on life, and the way we journey through it and what's showing up and going on. And so for me, the power in looking at the limiting beliefs that I had around myself and my life and my relationships. And I'm super lucky to have Tiffany Who sits with me on a lot of this, she's she knows more about me than I think anyone on the planet. And I'm looking at looking at those limiting beliefs and how they impact my life and the stories that I tell myself that those limiting beliefs are true. The behaviors that I have that reinforce them, so I can tell myself, you see, I told you that was true. So the stories, the reinforcing of it, the beliefs, looking back up, potentially where those beliefs kind of started or rooted, and being able to go back and, and recreate those stories for myself. So I don't have to live in the accurate memory that I have of them, so that I can create a more powerful life for myself. And for my children, one of my great, one of my great motivations is how I can show up for my kids, as an example and a role model for them for how they can choose to show up in their lives. And the calmness that has come over me since I've started work on my being of being as a parent. Because that's my primary role is I am mother and I'm loving, kind, abundant and patient, especially when my daughter's premenstrual that is one of my one of those one of my things is when I catch myself is that when you're triggered, because your children aren't showing up as their best selves, and then you go into a triggered mode is that no, no, this is the time I need to show up as that person the most. And that's, that's been really helpful to me to have that ever present for me to remember that and remember who I choose to show up as being and not be allowing myself to be influenced as much as I previously was because I'm human and have work in progress. And I'm certainly not the finished product. But remind myself that I have a choice to show up how I want to show up and nobody is in control of that except for me, I thought blame anyone else. And I can choose between stimulus and response exactly who I want to be. And that's really powerful for me. I've really acknowledging and stepping into that.

And so what have you seen in terms of your relationship with your daughter? And in looking at how you have shifted the way you respond to her when she's not being the person you hoped she might be?

Well, she's 20 My daughter, but I'll tell you, there's more to it than that, in my life. A lot of forgiveness around my mother, which is ongoing. I'm not quite there yet. But a lot of forgiveness around my mother has positively impacted my relationship with my daughter. as well. So my relationship with my daughter and that there's been certain situations, the minute that I've forgiven my mother around certain things is literally I can see incrementally my relationship with my daughter improved. And she and I are closer than close. And I don't know whether that's because she's coming out of puberty or whether it's part of this. But also she, I know, she's told me she modeled herself on who I am. So if she is showing up as a version of herself that she really likes as a result of being influenced by me, then that's all positive. And also coming from a space of pure love, and no judgment has been a really safe space for her to be able to share with me. So our relationship has grown deeper and deeper and more close.

That's beautiful. Well, you brought up something that I think is so important, when we look at the creation of our document, well, a couple of things. One is it is dynamic, because we are changing and growing, I find myself with my own documents, sometimes a single word change, yeah, can make a real difference in how one of my statements comes across. But also, I sense there's, there's a lot of work. And that's talked about in the chapter on the document, there's a lot of work that has to be done before you start writing out. Your declarations, they don't just appear out of thin air. And you talk a little bit about some of the work you did to get to the point that you could say, these declarations, and they come from within you. And they're really a part of you now.

Yeah, yeah, I, I got really curious about really curious around when I was triggered. So i When my kids were really little, I taught them a philosophy, which I call a potty training for behavior, which was when I didn't want to say that diaper or nappy depending on which side of the Atlantic you're on gut American guys, when I say nappy, I mean diaper. So when you when you're potty training a child, the child first learns when they have soiled their diaper, I've done a poo. And it's an after thought is that that happened, then you go through the I'm doing it, I'm in the process of doing it. And then it's you get to the point where you catch it in advance. And I remember doing it my daughter when she was about six, and she was standing there with her fists balled is because she you know, in anger and frustration wanting to shout at me. And then she caught herself, dropped her hands and walked away because she gave herself the moment of choice. And we all get triggered because we're human. Or we are beings having a human experience. And it's natural for us. But it's we have it really looking at what was triggering me and why it was triggering me. And you know, getting really curious and with no blame and no judgment and no going it's your fault. It was my parents fault. It was my brother's fault. It was my teachers fault, whatever it was, but really looking at what's going on and where am I feeling it in my body? And does that need to be true. And that's not an overnight thing. I think the first version of my document that I wrote was more affirmations than anything else. It was me trying to create who I wanted to be, rather than actually being that person, it was like I was working towards something versus going this is who I am showing up as and really understanding why that's important to you. And also why you've not been able to show up or why you feel or believe you've not been able to show up as that before, you know what's been holding you back. What do you what's been your limiting beliefs around that. So really getting curious around what it is that you want out of your life, what it is, how you want to show up, and looking at why you believe that that isn't possible. And then going back and looking at whether that is true. That that's that the Byron Katie, you know, is it true? Is it really true? It really drew and creating that choice for yourself. And sometimes that work has to be done on repeat because we might get it on a Monday and then by Friday, we've forgotten all about it. So it's constantly working progress and catching myself being judgmental or whether even judgmental about myself or giving myself a hard time and not being very nice to myself and it needs anyone on the planet who is as mean to me as I am. And you know really learning I came to a space which was what how, how can I truly love anybody else? If I don't truly love myself first and all of me, not just the bits of me that I think I like but you know the bits that I've been really mean to myself about as well.

I think what you're describing there is such an important step that but it really is impossible to love anyone else any more than we have come to love ourselves and not judging. And I think that's a difficult part to get to when we're willing to really look deeply at the ways we've judged ourselves and work through that. And I wonder is, is there anything that you did, that you found really helpful in? Once you started identifying those things that from the past that might have been holding you back some of the stories you were telling yourself that were impacting your beliefs about yourself? What was part of that process of working through those to get to a place where they don't, they don't hold the power they once did?

Well, there's definitely taking the time to do it. This isn't this isn't a fly by experience, this is committing to doing the work. And doing it the way in which it should be done. Not a five minutes here, five minutes there, but creating the space to really give yourself permission to rant and rave, and even if it's really unfair. So one of one of the exercises I've done is just to write out like just complain, complain, and complain, and rant and rave, and it's unfair, and you know, all the things that are terribly politically incorrect to write all of those out, and then go back and kind of see how much of that is actually true. And how much of that is story and how much it is like, Would somebody else looking at this or experiencing this would they think of it the same way. So taking the time and the space to write it out? Trying and it's not always possible to identify the root cause of when that started looking it more often than not, parents are probably involved or a third party is looking at forgiving that person realizing they're human, they don't always get it right, Tony, by becoming a parent myself, I began forgiving my mother for all the things when she was my parent, and I didn't realize how damn hard it was because no one gave her a book I had become me when I had two kids, I thought my second kid was going to be a clone of my first kid, not a whole independent personality of our own. So I'm really looking at that forgiveness of, and I'm really appreciating and having gratitude, not even just forgiveness, but it's having appreciation and gratitude, and then forgiving myself for the reaction that I had when I wasn't the best version of myself and my relationship with them. So it's kind of this whole time got and it's, it's writing the gratitude every day out as well, and bringing that into focus. So when you asked me about the process, it's it's, it's ongoing, always, for me of a recognize when I get triggered, looking taking the time to, to get curious, taking the time to look at what the stories are, and then really examine the truth or the lack of truth in those stories, and give myself permission to let it go and not have to live in it anymore. And something I'm actually working with Tiffany on right now is sometimes we have a lot of emotions, really locked deep down inside that we believe are not accessible anymore, or we don't have permission to feel them. Or we feel guilty for feeling them all these kinds of things. But it's actually processing it, it's that energy that's locked into our body. And we have to find a way to release it. Now whether that's lying down in a room in the dark, and conjuring up all of those episodes that really upset you so that you can really process it, and let it out and and release it and bundle it up with love and send it on its way and go thank you for serving the purpose that you did when I needed you. But now I don't need that anymore. Because that emotion was probably created for a purpose at some point, whether it was to protect you or you felt like you needed protecting all sorts of different personal reasons we have, but giving yourself permission to let it go but really to process the emotion to access it and process it and that's still very much working process for me. Mm hmm. Well,

it hearing you describe all that, when we think about how we really are creating ourselves a new every day. It's, it's, it's, you know, and throughout the day two, so it's looking at how am I being in this moment? And is this what I want for me and for whoever I'm interacting with at that given moment. I want to go a little deeper in the gratitude area that you mentioned, Lisa, because I think this is such a core piece that could sometimes be overlooked or minimized. What have you found to be the power of of having gratitude in the forefront of your thinking being and actions that you take,

I think it's very easy to take a lot for granted. And at a moment's notice, everything's in transition, and everything can change. My mother had a stroke about three years ago, and to go from enabled Polly person one day to a disabled bodied person, the next is a really, it's like, wow, that's, you know, witnessing it as her daughter, or, you know, putting myself in her experience of what that must be like to be a strong, capable individual that suddenly without, and transposing that thought, on to the, to other areas of my life of my children, my children are, you know, they're not in the house anymore. And I wish I'd be more grateful when they were in the house, even when they were driving me crazy, and making a big mess about the place is like when they're not here, as I miss them. So when they're here, now, I'm really grateful, it's like, I can really feel the energy in my chest and in my throat and in my shoulders of have like a tingle of pleasure at the gratitude that I have for, for for their existence, and for the lessons I learned for them. And the fact that I wake up and I can, I can breathe, and I can eat and, and all the wonderful things that I have in my life that we often take for granted. And I think for me is is, is I always try and find gratitude, in the little things that we can consider mundane, and that we take for granted, to really be grateful that I'm in a position to be able to experience that I don't get it right every day, I don't get it right every moment. And I forgive myself as best I can, when I'm not getting it right. But just that just that feeling of really having a focus, and bringing that positive energy, I really try and work to the positive is not even working away from the negative, it's just working to the positive, and keeping that mentality strong. Because I feel that that really creates a great flow for me, in my my day. And in my life, when I really appreciate the people around me and my team. And that's taken some work, I've led a life a little bit as a bit of a lone soldier of somebody that's, you know, being strong and supported myself, and, you know, being very capable. And that can be very excluding for people around me. And so I'm practicing a lot of inclusion in my life of really being super grateful for the people around me and not closing myself off. So the gratitude has really opened me up a lot more to people around me. And community, I'd say,

what does that gratitude practice look like? Is it you write out things or you take time to think about it or, and then also, how do you remind yourself of it throughout the day.

So I, I have a journal, and I will write in the journal every day. And if I've got a mind block around what I'm writing, I've got a post it note in the beginning of lecture notes to remind me, and I will sit quietly, and I will really think about the fact that I have clean water to drink and how I can just go down and put the kettle on and make a cup of tea or you know that my kids are healthy and living their best life. And I keep I have on my desk, some totems of things that are specifically there, to catch my eye there in my line of sight that when I look at them is like well, this, this is just a reminder to just take a moment, take a pause, and to really appreciate the the lovely things that I have around me that I'm very privileged.

And like that, you've got those, I'll just call them triggers for that triggering and a good way to make you think about the things that you are grateful for. I love the habit you have and what you've established there for yourself. And I think taking the time to write in the morning, just simple things that we're grateful for. I think for me, I had to also work on not having it become like a list of things, you know that I had a certain number that I needed to come up with. So it was more it felt like a requirement as opposed to a natural, flowing. I have a feeling gratitude about the things that I'm writing about. And I think that that can carry over throughout the day. I love also that you've talked about not being so much of a loner and being more inclusive and that takes greater awareness too. Don't you think too. realize where you've been, and where you want to be in terms of welcoming other people into your world.

Definitely, definitely. And I like what you're saying about the gratitude because that that's when I'm thinking about gratitude in the morning, it really is an energy flowing through me. So it's kind of like my gratitude flowing back out into the world and possibly focusing on like one of my kids, if I'm really grateful for them having to, you know, put the lid back on the milk in the fridge, you know, it can be it can be super heated, I like the amazement of when you know, they take the laundry out the machine and actually hang it up. But you, you spoke a minute ago to just kind of gone out of my head, sorry, this might add brain. So we're talking about gratitude and flow of self awareness. So what I've found is, is the, we are so unaware often, of the impact that we have on those around us with our behaviors that we're we're stuck in what is normal to us, and we're not always conscious of the impact that we have on those around us, whether it be with our language, our attention, our body language, and how much that can really impact those around us. I'm someone that works at quite high speed. And that can be tricky for my team. And I'm super grateful for my business partner who will, with great love, and no ego, hold a mirror up to my face, or tell me that my behaviors, and my intentions are not currently aligned. And I will hear it. So you know, I can be in full operations mode of, you know, just bashing out instructions or replying to staff, and a simple pause to put a thank you or a little kiss at the end of the message or mentioned someone's name. Or if you're in person to touch their arm, touch them on the shoulder, look them in the eye can have such a huge impact. But sometimes I found that I can be caught up in my own space of doing that I'm missing out on being and who I am being while I'm in doing is not a great experience for those around me. And as much as their feelings are not my responsibility. If who I'm being can impact somebody more positively, because I'm more thoughtful, more paused, then that's who I want to be. So that's who I'm trying to practice. So that kind of self awareness of the impact that I'm having on those around me is something that I am growing with every day.

And you're so fortunate to have someone who feels safe and comfortable in giving you feedback. Because sometimes, because of who we're being with others, they hesitate to be honest with us, because they might be afraid of our reaction or for a myriad of reasons. But in your case, you've got the gift of someone who's willing to let you know when your behavior is causing problems for other people. So that's so great. What you were just describing to Lisa, to me is another aspect of this whole being community that I personally love so much. And that is this whole skill of acknowledgement, the ability to really publicly acknowledge someone for who they are being or for something they've done. And I'm curious to know how this you just gave a couple of examples of when you do this, I'm just curious how you apply this in other areas, as well say with your family,

I think is taking the time to pause and recognize that what we consider as an expectation or an everyday act, somebody else is doing deliberately one way or another and to not take people for granted or situations for granted. And to appreciate that somebody has put time or energy or resource into doing something or making something happen, or creating something and actually pausing and taking the time to acknowledge that rather than just gloss over it as a matter of fact, oh well they did that. You know, of course they did they washer or you know, we a lot of the time we find ourselves wanting to be right, making someone else wrong, or we want to look good. And I'm getting okay with not looking good and not being right. In fact, I take quite a lot of pleasure in admitting I'm wrong these days. And being grateful for those around me that tells me I'm wrong. As long as it's coming from a space where they're not trying with their ego to look good or make me look bad is Creating an environment where that's really safe. Is, is a thing that I am grateful for, because with my children, especially for me to be able to feed back to them and then not feel like they're being judged or that I'm in a bad mood, or that we can actually have these open conversations is really important, I think for their growth as well to feel safe, that they have grew up in an environment where you have to get it right all the time, you know, this kind of strive for perfection, which, ultimately, you're never going to reach. It's a fool's gold.

That's so true. And I just love what you said about this whole thing of being willing and actually eager, it sounds like to admit that you're wrong, looking for opportunities to say, Yeah, I was wrong about that. So I have two questions for you around that. One is what it takes. What did it take for you to get to the point that you're okay with that? And then the second part is, what do you see as the impact that that has on other people and how they respond to you

permission to get it wrong, permission to be vulnerable? Thank you. Brene. Brown, permission to be imperfect. has been a massive part of my journey over the last few years. I, everyone, I'm quite a strong character. And so people believe I know what I'm doing. I charge through life, making decisions and doing things in front of me because I know how to do it, and other people don't, or they're not moving fast enough. And as a result of my attitude, and my can do and my, my actions. I've somebody that people look to as like she knows what she's doing. But is someone put me in charge, I don't know who put me in charge. I seem to put me in charge. So being able to take a step back from that I've had a number of experiences over the last few years, where I have had to look at my behaviors and my actions, some of which have been catastrophic. A few more catastrophic is a little bit of a strong dramatic word, I might have to retract that. But the I did a business deal a few years ago, that cost me a million dollars of my own personal wealth, that decision and being stuck in that decision because I needed to be right. And I couldn't admit that I was wrong to get out of the impact of that decision sooner, which would have cost me less money, less grief, less, less heartache. That needs to be right, that need to not be wrong, cost me a million dollars, literally. So I had to process quite a lot of information at that point around Who Was I being that allowed that to happen? Who Was I being that got stuck. So in being right, and massively impacted my relationships with friends and with my children, and obviously my finances, I ended up having to sell my house. So learning the lessons from that of not always needing to be right and to surround myself with people who will be able to talk to me that I will listen in such a way that they all they want is my my well being and what's best for me. being coachable. And learning how to listen has been one of my great practices, which I'm definitely getting better at. But it was it was those hard lessons. Sometimes the universe will keep battering you around their head when you didn't listen this time or how about you lizard this time, and it just gets more and more dramatic? Until finally you know it's like do or die and the universe is just getting more and more heavy duty trying to teach you the same lesson. So universe, I heard it I listened. And you know, that's that's where I got to with the listening and then not always needing to be right, because I had such a dramatic event in my world as a result of being that guy. And it was like yeah, I don't want to be that guy anymore. And I gave myself choice and permission. There was a lot of self forgiving that had to go on and a lot of acceptance there was you know, there was a good six months worth of work to dive into there to look at and get curious with who I'd been why I'd been how I would not be again, what were the red flags, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

It's quite the journey. I think, for me when I've had that need to be right. It's from a place of losing respect or losing face, you know, with whoever it is I want to be right with. And instead I think a key Word that you just use there is listening. Because when we're truly curious, and we're willing to listen to another person's perspective, then we open ourselves up to learning and realizing you don't necessarily have to have the answer all the time, and others have often got even better ideas that we can adapt, embrace, learn from. And so, yeah, you've had the experiences that really opened up your mind and heart to say, you know, it isn't paying me to try to prove myself to be right here. I think it also result in you being more relaxed, because you're not in that. I won't say fight, but defensive mode, the even the attack mode of waiting to prove your point? And what is the impact on how others respond to you, when you do it one way versus the other way?

100% the listening in order just to respond, versus the listening for the listening? Absolutely. I used to be someone who needed to have all the answers, I think a lot of my worth was tied up in being the person that could solve the problems and being the person that had all the answers, and loving myself. And recognizing that my worth is not stemmed in that it's not rooted in that and finding other amazing ways in which to love myself. It all comes from self love bound, we're looping back to the beginning of this conversation around, if you love yourself, you can, you know, really love everything else that's going on around you. But when you're self critical, and you're beating yourself up, and you're stuck in being right, I mean, I see now, people around me, I recognize the behavior. And I love those people, because I recognize how I was when I was stuck in needing to be right. So when I see other people stuck in that need to be right, I just love them. Because I want them to get it out of their system is that you don't need to be right. It's okay. Not to be right. No one's judging you. No one's gonna love you any less. Well, it's, it's becoming more and more evident, to me who I was, feels like a different human being now, who I once was and who I am now it's I kind of stopped watching watching an old movie of myself in my memories. Do you ever have that? And? Yes,

I think it's a it's a great image to bring up because I think as we evolve and grow, we can look back and say, Wow, that didn't serve me very well to be like that. And we can see the differences. And I, I really like your emphasis Lisa, on this whole idea of forgiving yourself, and probably quickly. So we don't lapse into self blame and judgment, that then bring us down and take us out of that evolutionary mode that we are in, you know, you've done so much work. And I think this is the key, taking the time, to me as one of the threads, you know, through this whole conversation, is you've been willing to slow down and examine where you were getting in your own way where what you were doing was not serving you well. And looking kind of peeling back the layers of the onion to disk to discover what's underneath all of this. And I think you hit on a key word there a minute ago around worthy, because when you peel it all back, that's when a lot of meeting to the right, you know, needing to do and accomplish. It all has to do with proving our worth to the world. Instead of recognizing we're worthy just because we are

absolutely our own self value. I was having a conversation a week or so ago where someone was asking, Well, how long does it take to do this transformation? How long does it take. And it takes as long as it takes, obviously, but it's also around how much you're prepared to change how much you're willing to let go of all the things that you believed to be true, that have been so ingrained as part of who you are and your world up until now that wanting you know your beliefs around people or your religion or your purpose for being whatever it might be is if you continue to hold on to those beliefs and you don't create the space to be able to create new beliefs then Your, your velocity and transformation could be drastically reduced. If you if you make a choice of being able to let go of all the beliefs that you have about yourself and your environment and your upbringing and everything you believe to be true, and give yourself a clean slate and go, anything is possible any belief is true. And your beliefs, even though I don't agree with them could also be true. As much as my beliefs that you don't agree with could also be true. And both things can exist and be true simultaneously. And that's how fast transformation happens. That's how fast being deciding to be happy or choosing to be happy can be is how fast you're prepared to let go of the beliefs that you have that especially the ones that are no longer serving you once.

It's great, I love I love that wisdom that you've just shared because and that in itself, I believe is true. That our beliefs and our willingness to explore them and change them has everything to do with what we even see as possible. For us and for others. Lisa, is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners before we wrap up?

No, I would just invite any listeners to to share their stories with people around them. Be brave, be bold, and know that anybody can be a catalyst for transformation. You don't need to be a Steve Hardison, you don't need to be a Tony Robbins, you you by your being and by showing up as somebody who is open to being and to change and to changing their beliefs can be a great catalyst for creating transformation in the world. And that is what the beam movement is all about.

Thank you, and how can people connect with you, and even learn about your work?

Well, I'm known as the Business Catalyst. My website is the business catalyst.co.uk You can come and find me on LinkedIn, you'll find me on the Facebook group of the being movement, the ultimate coach book, Facebook group, you'll find me as one of the admins on there, come say hi.

At that's great, Lisa, I want to acknowledge you and who you are in the world, the work you have done on yourself and then the contributions you're making. To this being community. There are so many pieces in the works and the system that you're helping to create and put in place is is going to impact so many lives. So thank you for everything you're doing.

Thank you. Thank you.