Tons of brands say their packaging is recyclable. But what does that really mean—and how does it actually happen? In this episode of Barking Mad, we unpack the truth behind pet food packaging: misleading claims, infrastructure gaps, consumer confusion, and the realities that make flexible plastics so difficult to recycle. With expert voices from packaging engineers, sustainability leaders, and recycling innovators, we explore where the system is currently breaking down—and the creative solutions shaping a more circular future. From mono-material films to diaper-inspired designs and return-to-retail programs, this conversation is anything but trash.

Helpful Links

🚮 How much recycled content actually gets recycled? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chasing-arrows-what-does-mean-recycling-bsm-partners-tm80c/?trackingId=1suOpuDas%2BvZdnnFKVNzEQ%3D%3D

⛴️ Learn more about the US’s exportation of recycling waste: https://repurpose.global/blog/post/us-waste-exporting-explained

🌠 Read more about wishcycling: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2021/11/what-is-wishcycling-circular-economy/

🌱 Check out this study weighing the tradeoffs of bio-based packaging: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41578-021-00407-8

♻️ State-by-state comparison – how well does your state do recycling?: https://www.ball.com/sustainability/real-circularity/50-states-of-recycling

☕ Keurig’s expensive case of greenwashing: https://www.canada.ca/en/competition-bureau/news/2022/01/keurig-canada-to-pay-3-million-penalty-to-settle-competition-bureaus-concerns-over-coffee-pod-recycling-claims.html

⚖️ How state legislation can influence federal laws: https://bsmpartners.net/insights/capitol-copycat-how-small-state-laws-can-go-full-on-federal/

✒️ Learn more about Extended Producer Responsibility: https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/reports/2024/04/extended-producer-responsibility_4274765d/67587b0b-en.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

🎙️ Learn more about today’s guests:

• Tyler Packaging: https://www.tylerpackaging.co.uk/
• Veloflex by Thanh Phu: https://www.thanhphupack.com/veloflex.html
• Film Source Packaging: https://www.filmsourcepackaging.com/
• rePurpose Global: https://repurpose.global/
• Petsmart & TerraCycle: https://www.terracycle.com/en-US/brigades/petsmart
• Pet Sustainability Coalition: https://petsustainability.org/sustainable-packaging/

Show Notes

00:00 – Inside the Episode

02:31 – All The Things We Ask of Packaging

04:39 – Looking at the Full Life Cycle

07:51 – Why Are Multi-Layer Plastics So Hard to Recycle?

09:24 – Wishcycling

11:55 – How the Pet Industry is Innovating

12:34 – The Impact Hierarchy

14:53 – Leveraging Non-Virgin Plastics (And The Challenges)

18:44 – Breaking Down the Difference Between Biodegradable and Compostable

19:55 – Mixed Feelings About Bio-Based Materials

22:27 – Greenwashing: Buyer, Beware!

24:51 – From Diapers to Pet Food Packaging

28:11 – Bridge Solutions: rePurpose Global and PetSmart/TerraCycle

37:37 – Return-to-Retail Programs Across the Atlantic

38:43 – Investing in Curbside Collection

42:35 – State-by-State Recycling Rates

46:42 – The Hidden Impact of Secondary Packaging

49:49 – Certifications and Consumer Advocacy

52:46 – Understanding Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR)

54:58 – Inspiring the Future of Sustainable Packaging

57:17 – Today’s Key Takeaways

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Here's a not-so-fun fact. If you're listening to or reading this right now, you have microplastics in your body. We could say probably, but it's more like definitely. In your lungs, in your bloodstream—dare I say, new mothers, in your breast milk—or even your organs. And your pets? Woof, same story.

We now know microplastics are shedding from everything, our clothes, our furniture, our food packaging, and making their way into our environment and our diets, and that's how they get into our body. That's not just gross—it is dangerous. These tiny plastic particles are linked to inflammation, hormone disruption, and long-term health risks in both people and animals.

Jordan Tyler: In the United States alone, American households generate more than 51 million tons of plastic waste every single year.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Ooh!

Jordan Tyler: But here's the kicker: only about 5% of it ever gets recycled.

Jordan Tyler: So today, we're digging into what's being done about it, who's innovating, what's standing in the way, and why the future of sustainable pet food packaging is a lot more complicated than you might think. Buckle up—

Dr. Stephanie Clark: —and hold onto your microplastics. Welcome to Barking Mad, a podcast by BSM Partners. We're your hosts, Dr. Stephanie Clark—

Jordan Tyler: —and I'm Jordan Tyler. So, all those colorful, beautiful, glossy bags that have all those amazing imagery on it of what's in your dog or cat's food. Those bags do way more than just take your pet's food from point A to point B, from the factory to the store, to your house. They have so many other jobs like protecting the product from spoilage or from things getting inside and damaging the nutrients, as well as just keeping it safe during the supply chain process. You know, think about that like 60-lb bag of dog food getting dropped on the floor and spilling everywhere. Well, a good package makes sure that if it's dropped on the floor, it stays intact and you're not picking up kibble for the next three hours.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: But then we also ask it to be recyclable. Could you just do one more thing, packaging, please?

Jordan Tyler: It is, we're asking a lot of our packaging, and that's why we wanted to kind of dig into the landscape as we see it today, the key challenges that are kind of standing in the way, and what some industry players are doing about it, as well as how consumers can really get involved. Because recycling is not always easy.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: It's not always cheap…

Jordan Tyler: …and it's not always even recycled.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Oof, womp womp. Today, we have the privilege of Oksana Lylak, the Director of Packaging Engineering at BSM Partners, on today as she'll be talking about what does it really mean to make a sustainable pet food bag.

Oksana Lylak: It's really not about using less packaging or plastic and slapping a recycle label on the back. It's really about, you know, the packaging's full life cycle and its role in the broader pet food system. And one of the ways that we can get there, you know, comes from materials that we choose, how they're manufactured, transported, and ultimately disposed of while still doing its core job, which is to protect the product.

So, sustainability is really about balance—functionality, safety and performance on one hand, and then recyclability resource efficiency and end of life cycle solutions on the other.

Jordan Tyler: Oksana mentions life cycle solutions here, and that’s just a fancy way of saying we’ve got to look at the bigger picture. When we assess for sustainability, we’re not just looking narrowly at one part of a process or one aspect of a product—we need to dig deeper. Where did that material come from? What inputs were used to turn that material into a package? What resources did it take for that packaging to be transported across the country to arrive at your doorstep, and how will that package’s end-of-life—once it’s empty—impact the environment and our communities? It’s really about taking a broad perspective and considering all the factors that make something sustainable or unsustainable, and there will be tradeoffs, I promise—that’s not just for sustainable packaging, but really any sustainability initiative in general.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Right, and we’ll talk a lot about recycling in this episode because that’s really at the crux of our flexible plastic packaging problem right now, but looking at the bigger picture, there’s a difference between recycling and sustainability, too. Recycling can help reduce waste and conserve resources, sure, but it’s only one piece of a much larger puzzle. True sustainability means rethinking how we design, produce, consume, and dispose of everything—not just how we deal with the aftermath. So really, without reducing consumption and building out these more circular systems, recycling alone won’t get us to where we need to go.

Jordan Tyler: You’re spot on there, and that just speaks to how complicated this issue is—a fact with which Adam Kay, Sales and Technical Director for Tyler Packaging based in the United Kingdom, is all too familiar.

Adam Kay: Pet food packaging is quite a tricky category. I don't think people appreciate how hard it is in terms of the weight of the packaging. So, for example, if you just take basic kibble in the US you can have bags that are 44 lbs. So, the structure of the film has to be incredibly strong in order to withstand the supply chain, holding the food, a barrier for the food, palletization, shipping all the way across many states by road, going into store, and still looking amazing on shelf. And then you've got kind of all the shelf-life requirements, things like that. So, it's not an easy category at all.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. Coming back to the size of some of these bags, right? I have two big dogs. Two big dogs equal two big ol’ bags of dog food. So, it's pretty safe to say getting my dog's food is like my weekly arm workout. And you know, I really should work out more, but I'm totally counting it.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Hey, are you flexing on that flexible packaging? So, it is good that they're durable because, I mean, we're throwing them around. Not only are they being thrown around at the manufacturing facility, but when we go and pick them up, and it's not like you can even recycle that when it's all said and done. So, I’d really like to take it back to Ana and really figure out why are multi-layer flexible plastics so difficult to recycle?

Oksana Lylak: Well, flexible pet food packaging is difficult to recycle because of the mix of material complexity. There's infrastructure gaps as well, and then there's consumer behavior. So, most of our pouches and bags for kibble and treats are made from multiple laminate materials and each one of those layers in the laminated material have a specific role like keeping oxygen or moisture out and providing durability. But those layers are often made from different materials that really can't be separated in the current recycling streams. And that means that, ultimately, they end up in a landfill.

So even if there's technically recyclable content inside, it doesn't matter. And even when a package is designed to be recyclable, like for example, the mono-layer polyethylene, it's not always accepted curbside. So, this is where the infrastructure comes in, which, you know, then restricts it to store drop-off programs. And that's really where we run into the biggest hurdle. It's consumer confusion and then the access. Most people just don't know which flexible films they can recycle, where to take them, how clean they need to be. And with pet food, even empty packaging can have residue that needs to be cleaned out, which is a barrier to recycling.

Jordan Tyler: Too many layers, none of them really get along in the recycling stream… It's tough out there.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And at the end of the day, is it even broken down? Probably not.

Oksana Lylak: And I think for consumers, you know, it's one thing I throw something in my recycling bin, it gets picked up, and then I feel good, right? Because the package says it's recyclable, I've recycled it. But man, do I think consumers would be really disappointed to find out that at the sorting facility, it actually can't go or be used where it needs to be used to be recycled or upcycled.

Jordan Tyler: According to Adam, this is because recycling plastics isn't always profitable.

Adam Kay: It's not easy to recycle it. If it was easy to recycle, this would've been happening for years and years and years. There's no money in it. Anything's possible, but the cost to recycle it is worth more than the value of the polymer at the end of the process. That's why there's not a business, and that's why it's not being done.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Money talks.

Jordan Tyler: This is the part of the sustainable packaging equation that really gets under my skin. So, instead of building up our own recycling infrastructure to make sure that it's easier for consumers to recycle plastics, the United States every year exports, roughly a third of its recycling waste to developing countries. Is it even getting recycled over there? Who knows? So, it kind of brings us to the whole concept of “wishcycling,” right? Like is what I'm putting in the bin really making it all the way through the system and getting recycled, or is it just something that's making me feel a little bit better?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Ever since we started doing this episode, I really started thinking about this and when we export a third of our recycling waste to developing countries, do you think that is like a large-scale way of when we throw away something. Like, it's out of our house. It's in the garbage can, and then that garbage can goes into the garbage bin, and then it's picked up by the garbage truck—out of sight, out of mind. I feel like that's what we're doing here, and we instantly, in our brains, we have this like auto-delete where I don't even realize how many things I've put into my trash or how many trash bags are being picked up each week, but it's out of my house, so isn't that great?

Jordan Tyler: It is such like an emotional thing, like recycling has become such an emotional thing, right? It's like, it's almost kind of like a virtue signal because the infrastructure just is not there, and so we're all just kind of like putting it in the bin and hoping for the best. It's like, no, we shouldn't be doing that. It's not our fault. But you know.

Let's come back to Oksana to have her tell us a little bit about what the pet industry is doing in terms of innovating sustainable packaging.

Oksana Lylak: First, there's that shift that we're seeing in the trend towards or the adoption of the mono-layer or mono-material packaging, usually polyethylene or polypropylene, and they're much easier to recycle compared to the traditional multi-material laminates. And then behind the scenes there's a lot of R&D happening, especially around high barrier mono-materials. So those are designed to match the performance of the current multi-layer films, but with the benefit of being recyclable.

Jordan Tyler: So, I wanted to talk a little bit about something that I learned about recently, and it's called the Impact Hierarchy. And it's basically kind of the pyramid of the different approaches to more sustainable packaging. And this is true of the pet food industry as well as any other CPG industry or industry that's trying to work toward more sustainable packaging.

So, basically at the bottom of the pyramid or at the lowest hanging fruit level…

Dr. Stephanie Clark: The base.

Jordan Tyler: Thank you. That's the word.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I was like, yeah.

Jordan Tyler: The base of the pyramid is to reduce, so you want to use minimal packaging, as little as you can, whether that's the amount of plastic that you use, the thickness of the plastic that you use, that's basically the base of the pyramid. The next level up is reuse. So, this kind of takes us into reuse and refill models, which have some challenges when it comes to packaging. Like, you know, if you go into a retail store and you see a refill bin. How do you really know if that container has more than one lot of pet food in it? Do those two lots have the same expiration date? Do they have the same shelf life? We've got some stuff to figure out there, but it's essentially the idea of like, you know, you take your canvas grocery bag to the store instead of using the plastic ones.

The third tier of the pyramid is recycling. It's designing bags to be recycle ready, which essentially means they can be recycled in a Material Recovery Facility, which are called MRFs. This, as we've touched on a lot so far in this episode, is kind of a Catch 22 because our recycling infrastructure isn't great, and so we'll get into a little bit later ways that the industry is kind of working around the infrastructure to still recycle flexible pet food bags.

And then you have the tippy-top of the pyramid, and that is renew, basically using renewable materials instead of relying on fossil fuel-derived materials. So, we've heard things like seaweed and sugar cane from Brazil. So, just shifting away from plastic and into materials that have less of an environmental impact.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I'm so glad you said “tippy top.” Because that's what I was thinking in my brain. And then you said it and I was like, “Yes.”

Jordan Tyler: Now, coming back to the reuse part of the pyramid, one interesting approach is incorporating what's called post-consumer recycled and post-industrial recycled content. So that's PCR and PIR. And to kind of explain the concept of this and some of the challenges that we're experiencing with it right now, we have Yann Cerf, National Account Manager for Film Source Packaging in Florida.

Yann Cerf: PCR is post-consumer recycled, right? And then PIR is post-industrial recycled. There's no virgin materials used.

You know, the quality and the performance of the resin you're going to be repurposing, is a huge deal. You look at PCR resins here and you look at a lot of manufacturers that are using PCR resins, they don't really know where it's coming from. It's really important to know, you know, was it shrink film? Was it stretch film? Was it a bottle? Really important to know where it's coming from so you can maintain your quality and repurpose it.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, Yann has a lot of really excellent points here. Plastic is used for a lot of different things. We think of, you know, shampoo, cleaners, beauty products, detergents, diapers (wait for that later in the episode). But it's not all food-grade. Right? And this is something I learned. You need food-grade PCR or PIR for packaging that will come in contact with other food, like pet food bags.

So, let me take a step back and explain this. It's not that these plastics have to be food grade as we see food grade raw materials or ingredients, it's, we don't want to use a plastic that maybe was used for a bleach bottle or a household cleaner to then be recycled and used for your pet's food. Those chemicals can leach into the plastic and then they can come in contact with your pet's food. So, when we say food grade, meaning plastic that has been in contact with food products.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, and kind of as Yann said, there's not a really great way to verify where PCR and PIR is coming from right now. And so, it's kind of a crapshoot, you know, whether or not you're getting food grade material. So, you’ve got to be really careful.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I mean, that's even if you can get it, right? Because it all depends on the consumer recycling the plastic. If they're not going to recycle the plastic, you have no plastic to be recycled and reused.

Jordan Tyler: And we go around and around and around…

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And sadly, yeah, it's not happening on a large scale. At least not at the current.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. And the same goes for PIR. I mean, not the same, but the same concept, right? Post-industrial recycled content comes from packaging suppliers that have waste material at the end of their processes. So, they're making these bags for other brands, and they have some scraps left over, and they throw that into a bucket that goes to PIR. That goes to, you know, become a brand-new package.

The point really is, what packaging manufacturer out there is like, “Yeah, today we're going to have enough waste to generate a bunch of PIR.” No, nobody with a good business plan is planning on generating waste. So, it is kind of a Catch 22, the PCR and PIR equation. As recycling infrastructure improves, it could definitely be a better solution, but right now it's pretty limited.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And on a cost standpoint, right? It's cheaper to make new than to reuse, and I think that's going to be the crux of all of this. You know, businesses are not trying to increase their bottom line. They want to try and cost optimize and reduce their overhead.

Jordan Tyler: Absolutely. Sustainable packaging is an investment and it's complicated if you haven't already picked up on that. And because there are so many ways to get to more sustainable packaging, there are people out there taking all sorts of different approaches, like compostable packaging was one that I thought was interesting.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: This is something I learned when going through this episode is there is a difference between biodegradable and compostable. And we have Adam here today to talk about the differences.

Adam Kay: Biodegradable means how long it takes for something to break down. Everything breaks down. It's just how many years? So, it could be a thousand years, it could be 20 years. Compostable is, it breaks down in a certified timeframe. So, predominantly, most industrial compost products are breaking down within 12 to 16 weeks.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Adam mentioned compostable packaging is facing the same issue as recycle-ready packaging—there just aren’t enough industrial composting facilities that accept these materials quite yet. We’re working toward it in the United States, as well as in the United Kingdom, but collection and disposal remain a key barrier.

Jordan Tyler: Coming back to the tippy-top of the Impact Hierarchy—renew—many of the renewable materials like seaweed and sugarcane that we mentioned earlier fall in a category called bio-based packaging. Basically, this means packaging made from plants, like corn or sugarcane, instead of petroleum (AKA oil AKA fossil fuels, depending on how fancy you want to get). This sounds super eco-friendly, and in some ways, it is. Using plants instead of petroleum to create plastic can help lower carbon emissions.

But here’s the catch: not all bio-based packaging is the same. Some types can be composted—but only in special facilities. And as Adam pointed out, there’s not a lot of those to be had here in the United States quite yet. Other types of bio-based packaging can’t be composted at all. And even if it’s made from plants, it might still act like regular plastic in a landfill or the ocean, meaning it sticks around for a long, long time—longer than a certified compostable package would.

There’s also a tradeoff, as there is so often with sustainability. Think about if we start growing tons of crops just to create more bio-based packaging. Well, that means we’ll need more land and resources, and we’re already looking for ways to keep up on these fronts with food demand. This means more water, more fertilizers, more energy—all of which plays into the equation of what’s truly sustainable.

So, while bio-based packaging is a step in the right direction, it’s not a magic fix. There are mixed stances on bio-plastics, but if they’re going to be a viable solution, we still need better systems for composting and recycling—and we still need to use less plastic overall.

And while I’m talking about this, I’m thinking about greenwashing and how it can be really easy for brands to claim something is sustainable without showing us the bigger picture, you know?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: If you're like me, and this is opening your eyes to everything, and I had to learn what greenwashing was. Greenwashing is essentially when a brand or a company or a product claims recyclable or sustainable, but actually it may not be what they're preaching. I mean essentially brainwashing you to think that you're being sustainable or you're recycling, or you're supporting a brand or a company that is sustainable or supports recycling.

Jordan Tyler: It's that one for me, right? It's the, “I'm sustainable and that makes me better than this other company, and that's why you should buy from me.” And then just lying about it.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: …or maybe not totally telling the truth. Do you think that falls on like the lack of the producer's responsibility in the US?

Jordan Tyler: Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like if we actually had standards that everybody had to follow. Then it would be way easier to know. The difference between a Bonafide claim and a greenwashed claim. But greenwashing can happen in any industry.

One example is Keurig in Canada claimed its disposable coffee pods could be recycled if consumers peeled off the lid, emptied the grounds, and tossed the empty pod in their recycling bin. The brand later paid $3 million in penalties when those claims were proven to be false and misleading across most of mainland Canada, the only places those pods could actually be recycled were in Quebec and British Columbia, so everybody else was “wishcycling,” but being led to do so because of misleading recyclability claims by the brand.

We've put a link in the show notes if you want learn more about that particular example, but bottom line—consumers and consumer advocacy groups and agencies are picking up on sustainability claims and actually vetting them, right? There will still, of course, be examples that fly under the radar. So, it's just something that consumers should be aware of right now.

Now, there are also packaging suppliers out there focused solely on recycle-ready packaging, like Thanh Phu Plastic Packaging Company in Vietnam. And one of the ways they figured out how to create their recycle-ready pet food and treat packaging is by taking learnings from other areas of its business like… Diapers?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Honestly, this is like the best fact that I've learned thus far. Who would've thought the things that hold our baby's poop hold the key to our future of recycling? So, luckily today we have Alex Dam, the Executive Vice President at Thanh Phu, to talk about how personal hygiene has made its way into pet food packaging.

Alex Dam: So, what we have learned [from] the hygiene, we call it a personal hygiene market, which is diapers, feminine napkins, tissue paper, that kind of thing. We also making film for the diapers’ inside. You have this technical film called a breathable back sheet. So basically, on the diaper, you have the outer layer of the diaper where you have all the cartoonish printing on it. That film is called a breathable film, means it allows air to go through, but not water. So, it's a porous film. That's how you create that breathability for the diaper. So, we have that technology very early on because of where we coming from hygiene.

Jordan Tyler: This proprietary packaging technology by Thanh Phu is called Veloflex, and the porous film is thinner than other plastic materials, allowing manufacturers to use less plastic.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And I really had to take a step back and think about this. So, how do diapers weigh into all of this? It's basically that material it gets stretched and pulled until it's thin, but it doesn't lose its stiffness or strength, and it's also moisture resistant. And, like our baby's booties, it is breathable, which adds to barrier properties.

Alex Dam: So we, for many years, that's been our bread and butter. And so when we would go into our, create our solution for Veloflex, that is actually our core competency. We're not learning a new competency. It actually has always been our competency. So, we are bringing this know-how into this, and then when we make the packaging for pet, our solutions actually look just like any other non-recyclable in terms of performance, appearance—even better.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And just in case all of this wasn't excellent enough, less plastic, and all the properties, it adds a glossy finish. So, it makes colors pop, it makes things brighter and shinier. So, just like little baby birds, we can be distracted by it on the shelves.

Jordan Tyler: I mean, I don't know about you, but that's how I pick out my wine, so…

Dr. Stephanie Clark Right? Who goes to the grocery store and like, you know what, I found this box wine and it was just so cute I had to get it. No one. But when you find this pretty bottle, like, don't you feel so fancy? Like, I got this.

Jordan Tyler: Even if the wine isn't to my liking, I'm probably still going to like it, like in my soul because I like the label.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Yeah, we like shiny, pretty things. And that’s okay.

Jordan Tyler: So, we've talked about shifting to mono-materials. We've talked about compostable packaging, incorporating non-virgin materials, the PCR and PIR. But I kind of want to move into some of the bridge solutions that exist right now. To help brands tackle this problem of plastic waste, particularly for pet food packaging.

And when I say bridge solution, what I really mean is it's not the end-all-be-all. It's just something that we're doing right now to either reduce our impact or give back in some way to the planet, or you know, just doing your part in the best way that you can without like, you know, solving the sustainable packaging problem. So, these bridge solutions can be really valuable while we're still trying to figure out the recycling infrastructure piece.

One of the bridge solutions that we want talk about today is rePurpose Global, and they do something called Certified Plastic Neutral. They work with brands all across the industry, and we have Adi Siroya, Co-Founder and Chief Impact Officer at rePurpose Global to tell us a little bit more about how he started and how it works.

There's many layers of the problem. Of course, we're all aware of the environmental damages of plastic, but we were particularly interested in the social consequences of plastic pollution, particularly in terms of how we offload the burden of managing all of this plastic waste to millions of workers across the world who come into a job called informal waste picking in the informal waste sector, which is today, even still, responsible for about 50% or 60% of the world's total recycling.

And so, we decided to focus in on the informal waste sector of India and also Indonesia because these are two countries which are the biggest hotspots of plastic leaking into the oceans and into nature.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, I love his backstory, right? The Garden City to Garbage City. It totally gives you a great picture, and this is what's driving Adi and his team to have essentially come up with a way for businesses, particularly smaller businesses, and those who are working towards transitioning to more sustainable packaging, but also those who want to make more of an immediate impact through what they call a Plastic Neutral Certification.

Aditya Siroya: The Plastic Neutral Certification basically means that a business has measured the amount of plastic that they're using in their own packaging. They've taken a longer-term roadmap to reduce their packaging and plastic impacts in their own supply chains.

Number three, that they are recovering today from nature, as much plastic as they are using or more through our project network, and doing so in a verified way. And number four, that they are credibly communicating and reporting all of this work.

Let's be real. Plastic is a really unique material in the properties that it brings to life in terms of how it keeps products safe and at the cost that it does, as well as the stability that it offers. There it really is no material at scale that can replace plastics overnight.

Jordan Tyler: Again, we've talked about this, but plastic isn't necessarily the enemy. It's more of a necessary evil right now. It's the best we have. We're just using way too much of it, and so we need to find ways to offset that and rePurpose Global makes a really compelling argument.

Aditya Siroya: And if you can't take immediate action in your own supply chain, we are faced in this world with an increasing amount of plastic that's already polluting nature and our oceans. And so we think that businesses can at least be a part of the solution that pulling that plastic waste out of nature, either themselves or through partners like us where we can help them fund the recovery of plastic waste from nature. And do so in a very immediate way and do so in a way that strengthens the waste management infrastructure in the places where plastic is most leaking into nature from.

Not to mislead customers into thinking that, okay, they are washing their hands clean, that they are plastic free or anything like that, but really to use this language of, “Hey, we are taking immediate action today while also working towards this long-term goal of getting to plastic free.”

Jordan Tyler: Essentially, brands can partner with rePurpose Global to offset the amount of plastic that they put out into the world, helping to fund the removal of that same amount of plastic from natural environments like oceans and coasts in developing countries where this trash is literally piling up across South America, Africa, South and Southeast Asia… really everywhere.

Joanne Dwyer: So, it's really interesting because I would say that the pet industry generally is lagging in the area of sustainability. I don't think there's been a lot of investment collaboration done, and in the last few years I've really seen that change for the better. And I think that from our perspective, you know, we've done research that shows that a majority of pet parents really want be able to take small, everyday actions that help them reduce the impact of their pet on the environment.

And so, when we think about it, we have a really unique opportunity to both offer products that are better for your pet and better for the planet, but also create these sort of points of interaction, and in this case, a take-back program that helps us to reach customers so that they can take small actions every single day.

Jordan Tyler: So, let's hear from Tom about more of the specifics of how this works. Like what do you do with this material?

Tom Szaky: Absolutely. So, the first note to say is that a pet owner does not have to be a PetSmart customer, does not have to be a customer of a specific brand. It is completely free and available to any pet owner that you would just bring their packaging to the stores in New Jersey and Arizona, and there you put it into a system which we then pick up from the stores and it goes to one of our check-in facilities.

At these check-in facilities, we open them up, we report on exactly how much weight came in, and we sort out anything that is not pet food packaging. And happy to say that it's just around 1% of the waste we're collecting is not pet food packaging, which is incredibly pure. So, people are really doing this, you know, properly.

So, we sort that 1% out. Then we take the material, we shred it. That's done entirely so we can wash off all the residual pet food that may be on the inside. Now, you're going to see visible chunks like, you know, food residue. But there's also invisible things like oils and greases, which could be really problematic to the recycling process if they're not sorted out or not cleaned off.

Once we've got it all cleaned, we separate the material into major polymer or plastic categories. Then from there, we pelletize it, and then from there, manufacturers take the recovered and recycled content and turn it into all sorts of finished products. Those could be things like outdoor furniture, building materials like drainage pipes, flooring tiles, all sorts of different things that they're interested in using the material for. And that's how it comes back as a recycled product.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Honestly, I'm kind of excited about this.

Jordan Tyler: I agree. So, this program is available at PetSmart stores across Arizona and New Jersey, and it could be rolled out to more stores depending on how this initial rollout goes. According to Joanne, early results are pretty promising.

Joanne Dwyer: We're accepting all pet food, so cat and dog food and treat and then also litter containers. And one of the things that I think is really critical and important is that our associates have also been trained on the program. We've done other similar takeback programs with a company called West Paw, we've done take-back with their toys, and we saw directly through that program when we tested it, that in stores where our associates were engaged, we actually took back more toys. And I think that associate training is extremely critical, so they've gotten that information so that they can encourage pet parents to participate.

I think that, you know, from a results standpoint, it's been really amazing to see how pet parents have responded in such a short time. Because the program really launched in November, and so we're looking at really just a few months. And so, we've collected 20,000 pieces of packaging since the program launched in November, which is really remarkable. And to see that, you know, Tom's team isn't having to fish out other, you know, forms of trash is really, really promising.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, we have all heard about this return-to-retail program that PetSmart and TerraCycle are doing, but let's look at it across the Atlantic. What are we doing worldwide?

Adam Kay: I think that the UK and Europe are a little bit further ahead of North America, but I think logistically North America will catch up and overtake us in terms of volumes recycled. But I think all states have got to start collecting. I mean, for example, in the UK now, all stores, all retail outlets have a collection policy and it's all store drop-off. So, for example, if you go to a garden center, a pharmacy, a pet shop, a retail grocery store like a Walmart or an Asda, they've all got collection points in store for soft plastics.

What we would love to achieve is curbside recycling. So, in the UK we're only at 17.6% of the UK households have curbside recycling for soft plastics. But that will change with EPR kicking in. EPR just for clarity, stands for extended producer responsibility.

Jordan Tyler: We’ll talk more about EPR a little later in the episode, because it’s definitely one of the driving forces behind sustainable packaging. But back to return-to-retail solutions or take-back programs as they’re called, these are bridge solutions that are really great for the time being, allowing brands to take immediate action while we work through the complexities of this issue.

However, according to Allison Reser, the Director of Sustainability and Innovation for the Pet Sustainability Coalition in Colorado, we should really probably be investing in curbside collection as well. This could be a more accessible path to sustainability for everyone in the US and abroad.

Allison Reser: Curbside is definitely where we need to go as an industry, and the store drop-off model is just an interim stop gap solution until we can get there. A lot of it just comes down to consumer behavior because ultimately, like the person holding the package is responsible for dealing with it. And we know that if someone can recycle something at home, they're way more likely to do that than like go to a store, bring their old packaging and drop it off there. So, I think that's why curbside wins is just, like, there will be so much more participation in curbside recycling when we can have that system accept flexible films.

But in the meantime, it's really complicated because we have to communicate to customers that, okay, so they need to look for a label on their package, and if it says store drop-off recyclable, that means it's mono-material, which is good. That should indicate that whatever company they're buying from has invested in sustainable packaging. But then that customer needs to remember to look up which stores are accepting the soft plastic, and then take it there and remember to take it there and sometimes you forget and you have to do it on your next run. So then you have this pile building up in your house.

So, that's why I like to say that the short-term solution, the immediate solution, is setting up those return-to-retail bins in stores.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Whether it be, you know, short-term solution or intermediate or a long-term solution, props to everyone moving forward, moving the needle, right?

Jordan Tyler: Totally.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: At least something is getting recycled.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. Again, it's not, there's no silver bullet solution right now. We have a lot to figure out, but we've come a long way. Like the return-to-retail could be an amazing option for one consumer, and the curbside could be a way better option for another consumer. We just need options, you know? So, totally all valid solutions. Definitely don't want to shortchange any of the great stuff that people are doing to really work toward this issue.

So, kind of reviewing all of the innovations that we've talked about so far. Obviously, there's no silver bullet solution right now. You know, we have companies taking different approaches based on where they're at in their sustainability journey, because if you haven't gathered, it's kind of a lot, lots of variables… and then the availability of collection and disposal, whether it's recycling or composting or something else, is also really not conducive right now to solving the scale of our plastic waste problem.

The other thing about it is, like Stephanie mentioned earlier, it's just too much work for consumers right now. If you're going to ask a lot of the consumer to make that package have a sustainable end of life, they're going to forget, something's going to come up, or they're going to, you know, want to do it but then that pile is just going to keep getting bigger and bigger in their home, and eventually they're just going to put it in the trash can because they're sick of looking at it. So really, so many different variables.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And when you think about it, since it falls on the consumer's shoulders, we literally are saying, “The sustainability and the health of Earth is on the consumer shoulders.” That's a lot of weight, literally and figuratively. But when we look at it state by state, and you and I looked at this and completely mind blown. Go ahead. Sit there and think, what state in the US do you think has the highest recycling rates? Go ahead. I'm waiting. Now, drum roll, please… It ain’t California.

Jordan Tyler: I was so shocked by that. Right?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I know. I swore. I was like, “Oh, absolutely California.” I don't know why, but it just feels like a recyclable state.

Jordan Tyler: They have so many different, like eco-friendly like policies and laws, so I guess we just assumed, but it's actually Maine has the highest recycling rate by state.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: By a lot further too, right? Like they're killing it.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: 65% of the state. It's followed by Vermont at 51% and Massachusetts at 48%. Oregon at 45%. And New York—even New York—at 44%.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, and California's only at 41%.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Good job, New York. But let's talk about the womp-womp states, just because we're going to talk about the best, we have to talk about the worst. And just because it's a rating doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Jordan Tyler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Poor West Virginia has the worst recycling rate nationwide at 2%—two!—followed by Louisiana at 4%, Tennessee at 5%, and Mississippi, South Carolina, and Alaska at 6%.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, and there's a lot of numbers on that lower end too, but like, nationwide are pretty middling. On the upper East Coast and even on the upper West Coast, there are, you know, we're approaching some really solid numbers, but it's still only like… around half?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: On a good day, right?

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. I think Arkansas, which is where I live, was at like 11%, and I was like, yeah, I'm not surprised by that, but I'm still disappointed.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I think Illinois was right there, and even if we wanted to say Missouri too, pretty close.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, not trying to shame anybody. Obviously, this is a really complex issue, but it really does come back to our infrastructure. So, let's kick it back to Oksana to get a little more color on that.

Oksana Lylak: Even when your package is technically recyclable, you know, there's no guarantee that it will be recycled. So curbside programs, again, we talked about this, vary by region. The sorting technology can fall short, and then there may just not be demand for that particular recovered material. Same goes with glass and metals, right, which we think of highly as recyclable. If there's no demand for those, then there's nowhere for them to go to be able then to be recycled.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, Oksana brings up a really interesting point. If there's no demand for it, then it's not being recycled. And then how do we know there is a demand? So, I mean, again, Negative Nancy on my soapbox here. We recycle, those who actually recycle, we think, we feel, we hope we're doing good. It may not even be recycled, and it will only be recycled if there's a demand. But no one lets us know if there's a demand. I mean, how many vicious cycles can there be in one circle?

Jordan Tyler: It's totally a black box. Once you put that thing in the bin, you can never know what happens to it because the traceability just isn't there, and the transparency isn't there.

Oksana Lylak: So that's why education is really critical, because if the consumers just don’t know where and how to dispose of it, then the whole system can really break down. So, the challenge isn't just about making a greener package, it's really creating something that works across the entire, you know, supply chain, retail, and in people's homes.

Jordan Tyler: It has to work for each stakeholder along the chain, right? It has to make sense for the manufacturer. It has to be able to run through their machines. It has to be able to work in transportation, you know, getting from the factory to the distribution center, to the retailer, to your house. However, it works as well as it has to work for people. And I think a really interesting aspect of all of this is something that we rarely ever see, but you know, you can see glimpses here and there, and that's secondary packaging. Let's bring it back to Yann to learn more about what secondary packaging is and why brands may be less inclined to invest in it, at least right now.

Yann Cerf: You know, you have a lot of items that get bundled that are for transport, right? So, say you get a bottle of salt at the store, well that comes in a six pack or a three pack, right? You get a can of wet food for your dog or your cat. You know, you buy a single one on the shelf, well, that comes in a tray covered in shrink wrap, right? So, I've had many discussions with some of the larger pet food brands saying, “Hey, you know. You can also have a shrink wrap that is renewable or has recycled content, and you can incorporate that into your company.” Well, customer doesn't see it, so why does it matter?

So, it's kind of the issue that I see is where, you know, everything is done for the image and you know, for what people can see them being sustainable. And there's so many different things that companies can be doing to be better for the environment, but when it comes down to, you know, running the numbers, it's like, “Oh, well our bundle cost us 4 cents to bundle, and now we're going to pay 7 cents a bundle… Sorry.” Right? That's not going to happen. It comes down to, you know, what does the consumer see?

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I mean, another example is shampoo, right? No one wants a broken cap on their shampoo bottle. But do you really think about how that shampoo bottle got from the facility, the manufacturing facility to the store shelf in one piece? Hopefully. Right, because if it's cracked, we ain't buying it. But again, that's not being seen by the end user, so why do I care? Why would the brand invest money into making that secondary packaging more recyclable if I don't even know it exists?

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, exactly. And I do think with the rise of fresh/frozen pet food and also at home meal delivery services like HelloFresh, there's a lot more secondary packaging being seen by consumers these days, as Adam points out.

Adam Kay: There's a lot of direct-to-consumer business, a lot of fresh or frozen across all categories. It's not just pet food. And you're seeing a lot of additional secondary packaging, so cardboard boxes—okay, it's recyclable, but there's a lot of cardboard, there's a lot of impact on the environment. We're seeing all sorts of stuff like wool packaging that's filled with wool to, so it's recyclable. It's more natural. We're seeing all sorts of different types of papers, blister packs, all to protect the product as, as well as kind of like freezer packs. So, it's keeping it incredibly cold in delivery, but then that's all, a lot of that has to be disposed of at landfill.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, we get all of this right? We talked about the material, we talked about the potentials for recycling. Is it even recyclable? Where did it go when it was recycled? But we had to take it all back to the consumer. And how does the consumer even know if the packaging is sustainable or recyclable? And I think this goes back to something you had mentioned earlier about certifications. And these certifications are in place to give the consumer the information that something is sustainable or that something is truly recyclable, and hopefully to minimize that greenwashing, right?

Jordan Tyler: It's important because without the extended producer responsibility, which we'll get to in just a second, I promise, like, nobody's holding brands accountable for this, and so if they go the extra mile to get third-party certification, then you know that they are confident in their approach and they're not trying to cut any corners or anything like that.

Now, I will say it kind of depends on who's certifying you because different certifying bodies have different levels of rigor when it comes to actually assessing people for claims. But if you go through a third-party verification process, you're going to have to stand up to something. So, I would argue, you know, a certification is certainly better than nothing.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Gotta start somewhere.

Jordan Tyler: Totally. Yeah. And according to Adam, the onus is really on the brand to seek out those certifications and educate their consumers.

Adam Kay: The consumer's job is to buy the food, feed their pets, get on with their lives, and rebuy. They wouldn't look at a bag and go, “That's recyclable. That's not recyclable.” So, there's a huge, huge, huge piece of education and the right labeling.

Certifications are super important. I think that greenwashing is becoming a real problem. People are claiming things that are just simply not true, and that is pushing consumers to question things and not believe. I would recommend any brand that was buying packaging and that they were making publicly stated claims such as, “My packaging is 100% recyclable,” they should have a certification from their packaging supplier that guarantees it—not just, is this bag recyclable? Yes, it is. You really should be able to certify and go back to a guarantee of what you're buying. And that's not just across packaging, that's across everything, whether it's ingredients, whether it's energy. If you make a statement and say, we are 100% renewable energy, you need to be able to back it up. You need to be able to prove it.

Jordan Tyler: So essentially if you have questions, if you can't tell if a bag is sustainable and that's really important for you, just ask. Ask the manufacturer. They will be more than happy to answer your questions. If they are offering a sustainable bag, they will be proud to share that information with you. So just ask.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: So, let's skip across the pond and talk about Extended Producer Responsibility or EPR. And these are policies requiring packaging producers to fund or provide services for the collection and the disposal of their packaging when it becomes waste.

Jordan Tyler: I would say across the pond, as you put it, they are more advanced in the EPR right now. So, across the European Union, EPR exists in some form, there are kind of a myriad of different acronyms that are used, but they all kind of fall under the umbrella of EPR or similar concepts. In the UK, it's across the board, and in the United States, only seven states have actually passed EPR bills and just 12 have introduced EPR legislation so far this year.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: I mean, I saw that number and I was like, well, that's not really great. But then when you talk about just this year, I mean, I guess that’s pretty moving.

Jordan Tyler: That's true. I’m also seeing a pattern here… The states who have passed EPR legislation tend to lean more progressive, and coming back to recycling rates. I mean, we’re living in a great political divide here in the United States right now, and I just hope we can come to consensus around issues like this, because the more people we have on board, the easier it will be to solve this problem.

You know, a lot of times, and we can maybe throw this in the show notes, our Food Safety, Quality Assurance and Regulatory Principle, August Konie, recently wrote an article about how a lot of state laws can influence federal laws. And we've seen this happen across the food industry, including in pet food. You know, maybe this happens there, maybe enough states adopt EPR, that it just becomes a federal thing and everybody's kind of, you know, held responsible for the plastic waste that they put out, or the plastic that they put out that ultimately is going to become waste.

So definitely hopeful. We've had kind of a rollercoaster today of ups and downs. You know, there's a lot to this topic and not all of it's pretty, but in speaking with the guests on today's episode, there is a lot of optimism about how far we've come so far and how we can get to where we need to go sooner than later.

Adam Kay: I would love to think that we could achieve kind of what the aluminum industry has done. Seventy percent of aluminum in the world supply is recycled aluminum. If we could achieve something like that within plastics, I think that would be amazing. I think if you look at a kind of a circular model, I think that the packaging industry, we are 50% of the way there. We need the infrastructure to get us to the full circle. I think that you'll still, you'll see a continuing trend [of] less is more, as in like less material, less impact, and I think that that will continue to develop.

Jordan Tyler: Ultimately, the pet industry has made really great strides toward more sustainable, flexible packaging. But as we've heard today, there's still plenty of work to be done, particularly on the collection and recycling side.

Oksana Lylak: The only other thing I'd like to add is that I'm just really optimistic about the real progress that's being made, and the more that we pilot these new materials and really rethink packaging formats especially, and engage the consumers, the closer we're going to be able to get to a sustainable solution that works for everyone, pets, people, and our planet.

Jordan Tyler: While sustainable packaging may be a tough nut to crack, innovators across the globe remain energized by finding solutions to this pressing plastic problem.

Alex Dam: Especially if you are a leading brand, especially if you have a mission, very clear mission and very clear, sustainable story for your brain. It's no longer should or should not. It's more like this is the right thing to do. True packaging circularity can happen, and it exists, and it should be scaled up. And this is the way we want to share our story to the industry and to say that this is not theory, this is not future—this is now.

Jordan Tyler: So where does this leave us? If you're a brand in the pet space or honestly any space you have a role to play, invest in sustainable packaging innovation. Don't just slap a green label on the bag. Back it up with data like from a third-party certification body. You can also educate your consumers, not just about your product, but about what to do with it when it's empty. If recycling it is confusing or inconvenient, chances are it's not going to happen. But if you educate, you could make that difference.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: And retailers, you're the gatekeepers. Use that power to offer sustainable options, support take-back programs, and train your team to help shoppers make choices with confidence. And here's a message for everyone listening: sustainability shouldn't cost more for the planet or the pet parents. If you're building a sustainable brand, your customers shouldn't have to pay extra just for doing the right thing.

Jordan Tyler: At the end of the day, collaboration is key. Packaging engineers, pet food formulators, waste infrastructure leaders, retail buyers, consumers. We're all a part of this ecosystem, and the more we work together, the closer we'll get to real circularity.

Dr. Stephanie Clark: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Barking Mad. If you want to learn more about BSM Partners, please visit us www.bsmpartners.net. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite leading podcast platform, or share it with a friend to stay current on the latest pet industry trends and conversations.

Jordan Tyler: A huge thank you again to Oksana Lylak, Adam Kay, Yann Cerf, Alex Dam, Adi Siroya, Joanne Dwyer, Tom Szaky, and Allison Reser for sharing their time and insights with us today. We'd also like to thank our dedicated team, ADA at Thomas. Neely Boden, Kate Wright, Katie Wolf, and Dr. Katie Miller. A special shout out to Leanne Haggerty and Michael Johnson in support of this episode and to David Perez for our original music in the intro and outro. See you next time!